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elixirmixer
11-21-2016, 08:50 AM
Praise Almighty God, and may all, either stand in bewilderment, otherwise, kneel in awe, for YHWH delivers us The Work already near to completion.

For as God in all His wisdom has willed it, the Spiritus Mundi is consolidated down to us from above... And let us not think that it is undetermined, for rather, it is equally determined to all things, for it is balanced, and infact, its manifestation is born from only a vortex in perfect elemental balance. (metaphorically speaking)

Therefore let us look towards the tree of life, as it descends down that Ultimate light, it indeed, is split through the prism, and then manifests into our physical reality as Sol it here, having being half-part-complete as it solidifies further, and is reflected from Yesod, our Luna.

She is in most part complete. Yet the physical manifestation is not mature without the inertia of Malkuth. Through balance we obtain grounding. Through the four elements we capture and coagulate the three principals

So here then; the philosopher begins his path, he climbs high peaks, where he feels cold grounds and icy winds, he looks down from said peaks and contemplates the warmth of the trees below. He has been moistened from his lofty experiences, and yearns again to feel the warmth of his fellowmen and share of his experience. As he speaks, within the four walls of the Saloon, his cheeks crimson from fine liquour, only then does he consider again those lofty heights, and then when the sun rises, so again does he take his march, up to the summit, where the winds are icy and the ground slips out from under the feet.

For years the man wandered.. and at each turn, felt the burning of that which he had not, whether it be the cool chill of his many tall stories, or the comfort of home, his friends and the warm fire.

On and on it went. year after year. His friends passed away, and the peaks disappeared...

He sat now, old and happy, His grandchildren sang, the fire was still crackling..

These youth turned to a grey bearded smile, they asked said face 'Where was your lot as a child?'

Ol' grey beard turn with a shine in his eye. 'Secrets I would find, and secrets I do keep, some when I was blind, some while on the peeks'

They laughed these kids and thought nothing more, their lives they did fade, Ol' White beard; more he saw.

The rain fell down, the dew in all its beauty.. the man still sits and attends to his duty.

Nature teaches lessons, while the world learns so little.

The man still lives on... in the peaks we know not... He's probably in the forest. 900 years and smokin' pot.

Thank you Father; and amen.

Awani
11-21-2016, 10:11 AM
Is God a man?

:cool:

elixirmixer
11-21-2016, 10:21 AM
When He wants to be. :cool:

elixirmixer
11-21-2016, 10:50 AM
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=963&d=1479725446

elixirmixer
11-21-2016, 10:57 AM
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=964&d=1479725800


http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=965&d=1479725826

---------------------------------------------------

elixirmixer
11-21-2016, 11:01 AM
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=966&d=1479726065


http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=967&d=1479726160

Schmuldvich
11-21-2016, 03:53 PM
What is that excerpt of text from in your first post? Did you write all that, elixirmixer?

elixirmixer
11-21-2016, 10:31 PM
Hmmmm hard to say... I was drunk and just started typing last night. Could have been the Angels ;) not bad ey? ;)

Edit: it's a good little story, yes i did write it, its my own version of "deeply crypted PS works" (lol) and I think that I will continue to ad to it, and improve its grammer, formatiing and most importantly, the message it shares.

Schmuldvich, have you had any experiences with the PS?

elixirmixer
11-21-2016, 11:19 PM
This thread is basically a storehouse of notes and conversations about what *I* believe concerning the confection of the philosophers stone.

It appears I've been pissing off some people in the 'gay' thread, so in the interest of public safety (keeping me safely in the public's eye) I won't be toooooo revealing concerning what I believe to be 'the way' as I simply don't have the energy for arguments, find it quite distracting from the works, and would like to get through at least one thread without needing to be gently reminded of anything... (but, if the shoe fits.... )

WATER - I intend to use female specified archeus waters, impregnated by male waters and sit it in a reflux simply as an initiatory experiment and to get me 'in the zone' also to notice if anything happens toward the right directions.

So my first step is to isolate - mercury of water sulfur of water salt of water mercury of earth sulfur of earth salt of earth - water fractions from a sample of collected rain water.

When i have had the right amount of practise and start to see some results, I will be using some very special water that I collected December 25th 2012 from Ayers Rock, Uluru, Australia.

This water shall become my first attempt to create a stone in this fashion. I will be dropping pictures and method all over the place, in no particular order. As I said im sure there will be a lot to learn from this thread especially (or beter words) maybe... for beginners at least, but it will be all over the place and its up to you to put together the pieces.

Kiorionis
11-21-2016, 11:58 PM
but it will be all over the place and its up to you to put together the pieces.

I like puzzles; I look forward to reading more!

elixirmixer
11-22-2016, 12:59 AM
I found this translation, on the wikipedia page for a music band called Absu. They have an album called Barathrum: V.I.T.R.I.O.L. (I've never listened to them before, I found it by accident... I share it here because it is the most practical translation I have found:

"Visita Interiora TerrŠ Rectificando Invenies Occultum Lapidem", an alchemic motto that can be roughly translated as "Visit the interior of the earth and [by] purifying [yourself] you will find the hidden stone".

elixirmixer
11-22-2016, 01:23 AM
@ Andro, I tried to work out the photobucket thing but as I noticed in dev's post, it seems to be down. I don't know any other way than to continue attaching as I have been... Thank you for imbedding the images for me.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=968&d=1479778477

elixirmixer
11-22-2016, 01:46 AM
Is there a way to increase file upload limits?

I want to analyse the Azoth symbology, with that of an alchemically aligned kabalistic tree of life, but im struggle with uploads as I think many others possibly are.

The Azoth symbology tends to start at lead and work round to silver, while the alchemical tree starts at malkuth, then luna, all the way up to Saturnian energy.

I wonder why there is a reverse in these two symbols?

Kiorionis
11-22-2016, 02:06 AM
I do hope you find a way to present the symbols, because I don't know what you're talking about without them.

:)

Schmuldvich
11-22-2016, 03:11 AM
Looking forward to seeing your experiments!

Andro
11-22-2016, 06:44 AM
@ Andro, I tried to work out the photobucket thing but as I noticed in dev's post, it seems to be down. I don't know any other way than to continue attaching as I have been...

Photobucket is apparently upgrading or having server issues, because it's been occasionally down last week, but not all the time. There is also imageshack.com (http://imageshack.com/) as well as other hosting sites. Look at the thread dev mentioned, people have posted what other external hosting sites they're using. Alternatively, if you have you own domain and site, you can likely host there.


Thank you for embedding the images for me.

One of us is always making the posts clearer, such as embedding images, etc... Sometimes it's dev, sometimes it's Mr. K, sometimes it's me. Even better if you do it yourself...

It's unlikely for the attachment limit to be increased, as it creates additional server load and can slow down the forum, loading pages, etc... Also, if you upload an attachment directly to the forum, go to the image page of the attachment, right click on the image itself, select 'Copy Image Location' (or 'Copy Image URL'), paste that location between and brackets and voila, the image appears in the post!

elixirmixer
11-22-2016, 12:10 PM
Azoth:

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=969&d=1479816221

Alchemabalic Tree:

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=970&d=1479816553

elixirmixer
11-30-2016, 08:05 AM
Robert A Bartlett: The Archaeus of Water
Some operators combine the above methods to produce a reconstituted water called
the Archaeus of Water. It is an Evolved form of water with surprising medicinal effects. The
water obtained by deliquescence of a salt is loaded with Fire and considered the male / Sulfur
/ Sun aspect, while the rain or snow waters are considered to represent the female / Mercury /
Lunar aspect of the Celestial Waters.
A quantity of collected rainwater (the female) is "impregnated" with the distilled
Angel Water (the male), then allowed to ferment for at least a month. After fermentation, the
water is separated using the 4x3 distillation described above.
Once the twelve fractions of water have been obtained, the process of recombination
can begin. Starting with the Fire element, equal volumes of the Sulfur, Mercury, and Salt
59
fractions are combined, then allowed to circulate for several days. Let it cool, then set it aside
for later use. Repeat this process on each of the remaining elements until you obtain the four
elements in their reconstituted form.
Now combine equal volumes from each of these elements and allow this to circulate
for a week to a month at about 40░C. Notice we do not use the Gur in this preparation. The
resulting Celestial Water is called the Archaeus or First Being of Water, and can be used as a
solvent for extractions in any realm or as a healing water on its own.
The Archaeus represents a Universal Mercury, and can be determined for operation in
any of the three realms by adjusting the relative proportions of the four elements during its
preparation. The four elements of water should be present in each Archaeus, but not equally
as we did above. If the Earth element is predominant, the Archaeus will be determined to the
Metallic realm. If the elements of Earth and Water predominate, the Archaeus will be
determined to the Mineral realm. Water and Air predominant will determine it to the
Vegetable realm, while Fire and Air will determine the Animal realm. The mixtures are
circulated as before, then they are ready for use.

Could the Archaeus be the magnet of the philosophers?

elixirmixer
12-02-2016, 03:17 AM
The process really is just like the minor opus isn't it. We are isolating two waters and two salts.

In the plant realm we usually combine Ethanol, essential oils, Plant salts of sulphur, and the Alkali Salts

For a universal stone we need more universal ingredients. I'm thinking... Putrefied rainwater distillate (female fraction), Angel water (male fraction), Dew Salt, Sea Salt.

elixirmixer
12-04-2016, 05:49 AM
The sages have always suggested gathering few and rain water in the spring time during a full moon. I'm a little late this season so the summer will have to do.

I was wondering if anyone can answer me this

Spring is to rejuvenation what Summer is to :______

What energies do the other seasons carry?

Kiorionis
12-04-2016, 07:43 AM
Spring is to rejuvenation what Summer is to :

Cooking! IMO

elixirmixer
12-04-2016, 11:12 AM
Is it perhaps dangerous I wonder, to create the stone during the different seasons? Could these energies be too 'strong' or alternatively, carry a 'destructive' force rather than a 'creative' one?

Could this explain the reports and unfortunate tales of valiant alchemists who experienced less than desirable results?

Does this coincide with the 'phillisophical barriers of protection' stuff?... AND H*** F*** JUST HAD EPIC REVO'S!

It's hard to put revelation into words, but the mind speaks in symbols ;)

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=971&d=1480849918

I superimposed the image i found in 'real alchemy' by Robert B Allan over a random picture from google that showed the torison energy field, the tree in the image i thought was also very relevant.

elixirmixer
12-08-2016, 10:49 AM
Corpus Hermeticum is a fantastic book. I have perhaps learnt more about 'myself' reading that than anything else. It talks about Bodies, and Essenses. It talks about what is corruptible and what is incorruptible. It speaks of God, and of His Son (it also says that God is referred to as male, for he is indeed a Father to us all)

It's amazing the way it talks about REGENERATION and the MIND...

It talks about finding mercy, through abstinence and silent meditation (fasting)

It talks about OBE's to a place referred to as The place of Salvation, and that no training is required, nor any pre-thought, for how can you comprehend that which you are to be if you are not yet that being? But rather it is delivered to you, as a gift, for your valiant victory over your base desires.

It also says that the worst evil in man is Atheism, and that mans greatest error is to not know God.

Hermes Thrice Epic bloke, was spot on, IMHO

May we all finally again honour our Creator, and in doing so, bring back peace and harmony to our plant :)

elixirmixer
12-11-2016, 09:20 PM
Blood.

Blood is the true Matter if deciding to use any that is.

Blood is unspecified. Because man is the world, man is all vegetable, animal, metal, all fire air water earth, all in balance.

Blood will putrefy and show the peacocks tail (after dried)

Blood can make a white stone

Blood can make a red stone

Blood is free to everyone.

Blood has collected the Universal Spirit

Blood.

Kiorionis
12-11-2016, 10:00 PM
Blood.

Blood is the true Matter if deciding to use any that is.

Blood is unspecified. Because man is the world, man is all vegetable, animal, metal, all fire air water earth, all in balance.

Blood will putrefy and show the peacocks tail (after dried)

Blood can make a white stone

Blood can make a red stone

Blood is free to everyone.

Blood has collected the Universal Spirit

Blood.

I am very interested in blood. I will share my own opinion on this ;)

Blood.

Blood is the foundation of Man.

"Blood" is universal, but "blood" is particular to the animal kingdom.

Blood, when putrefied, creates the various tissues of the human body

Plasma is White, the Red Blood Cells are Red.

Blood is free to everyone.

Blood collects the universal spirit.

Blood

Awani
12-11-2016, 11:19 PM
I am very interested in blood.

Are you familiar with this quote, that I have kept with me in my spiritual/shamanic path journals for over a decade:


Blood is the first incarnation of the universal fluid; it is the materialized ‘vital light’. Its birth is the most marvellous of all nature’s marvels; it lives only by perpetually transforming itself, for it is the universal Proteus. The blood issues from principles where there was none of it before, and it becomes flesh, bones, hair, nails… tears, and perspiration. It can be allied neither to corruption nor death; when life is gone, it begins decomposing; if you know how to reńnimate it, to infuse into it life by a new magnetization of its globules, life will return again. The universal substance, with its double motion, is the great arcanum of being; blood is the great arcanum of life. - ╔liphas LÚvi

:cool:

Kiorionis
12-11-2016, 11:40 PM
I didn't know you were familiar with ╔liphas LÚvi, dev. Very cool stuff.

elixirmixer
12-12-2016, 08:18 AM
Philosophical magnetism??

Philosophical electricity??

What is the perfect balance? Is it nessesary?

The philosophers always talk about 'learning from nature'.

IMO the least spoken about, yet most active and important natural phenomena is what common scientists refer to as 'the water cycle'

The constant (yet very slow) process of refluxing water over and over again, I believe, must be the main contributing factor for the collection of spiritus mundi.

I could obviously be wrong, and any who have the stone will know if I am confused or not... Would be great for some advice...I do notice that no one with the stone has commented... This makes me feel like potentially I am on the right track...

elixirmixer
12-15-2016, 08:53 PM
New realisations: Prima Material can be whatever you want, so long as you can obtain a female AND male counterpart, then the two will ferment.

The Prima Materia is a seed.

It is created by the male and female expressions in balance, housed in a dark moist place.

The Prima Materia can be WATER. Rainwater is considered feminine, while dew is considered masculine.

Urine could be used, the oil extracted by ether can be exposed to sunlight to turn red which could be considered masculine while the moon light will turn the oil white...

The Prima Materia can be your own sperm! Which goes through the full colour change and develops a red stone, claimed by paracelsus to be able to transmute metals (he was probably talking about 'philosophical' sperm) nevertheless....

If I could be bothered, I would insert an image of the yin/yang sign right about here:

Schmuldvich
12-15-2016, 09:49 PM
Prima Material can be whatever you want

Not so quick there! Your new revelations are encouraging but I would not confidently say that any material can be used as our Prima Materia. While in theory it may make some sense, in actuality we know that there is but one Prima Materia useful for accomplishing our Magnum Opus. By definition it is THE FIRST MATTER, and if we are dealing with Alchemy and Alchemy only we know this to be but one specific substance. Of course, if we are dealing with spagyric preparations or other experiments, our prima materia can be what we desire to use as our first matter in those experiments...but with Alchemy there is but one and only one First Matter.

Voltaire
12-15-2016, 10:43 PM
Blood collects the universal spirit.


I agree
The Modern Alchemist on youtube says Blood touches everything in our body, and either holds inside it, or is a conduit of conscious energy
I think this is why it's used in so many rituals to focus energy





housed in a dark moist place.


So many sex puns...


Sex is the key

Schmuldvich
12-15-2016, 11:58 PM
Sex is the key
To what?

Kiorionis
12-16-2016, 01:22 AM
Not so quick there! Your new revelations are encouraging but I would not confidently say that any material can be used as our Prima Materia.

If "Prima Materia" is relative, then why can't it be "a matter" as well as "a Principle"?

Kiorionis
12-16-2016, 01:25 AM
The Modern Alchemist on youtube says Blood touches everything in our body, and either holds inside it, or is a conduit of conscious energy

I'll agree that it touches everything. Ayurveda philosophy says that blood plasma is the foundation, and "transforms" itself into every tissue type.

But I would disagree that it is the pathway for conscious energy. I think that belongs to the nervous system. Blood pathways can have subconscious energy, if it likes ;)

Schmuldvich
12-16-2016, 05:14 AM
If "Prima Materia" is relative, then why can't it be "a matter" as well as "a Principle"?
I wouldn't say that Prima Materia is relative. When used in the context of Alchemy, our Prima Materia is referring to a specific substance. If taking the literal definition of the word, it means 'first matter', which can be used in any given context (but is not relative in any way to our Prima Materia, a nomenclature given to a certain substance in our Art).

Kiorionis
12-16-2016, 07:15 AM
If the "first matter" can be used in "any given context", then how is the term not relative?

ExtraEgo
12-16-2016, 08:59 AM
Concerning the blood: when one looks at the oxygen carrying part, the hemoglobin, one might notice it's a very complicated contraption just to carry oxygen.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Structures_of_Hemoglobin_forms.png/800px-Structures_of_Hemoglobin_forms.png

In my language AIR is called VAZDUH, which is short for VASKOLIKI DUH - the Omnipresent Spirit.

Chlorophyll is not different at all, almost, since it has a Mg atom instead of Fe, as well as a minor structural difference.

elixirmixer
12-16-2016, 12:20 PM
It's an electron net. This molecular shape is designed to 'catch' certain 'energies'

Now boys, stop dicking me around and just PM me about wether or not the universal solvent in it's seeded form is in fact my Prima Materia . Please.

Schmuldvich
12-16-2016, 04:54 PM
If the "first matter" can be used in "any given context", then how is the term not relative?
Good questions, I was hoping you would keeping prodding further discussion.

Relative, when used as an adjective, means considered in relation or in proportion to something else. Another definition is a thing having a relation to or connection with or necessary dependence on another thing. Our Prima Materia, the substance spoken of by true Sages, is not "relative" to anything else. It simply is what it is regardless of what other things are or could be. So we see that our Prima Materia is a name genuine Alchemists have given to a specific substance identified in their experiments that in no way teeters, falters, or changes when used in another context.

Now, being that "prima materia" is a Latin word, in order to understand what this means in English, we must first translate these two words. Prima means 'first' and materia means 'matter'. When put together and analyzed as a whole, we see that the two words prima and materia come together to form the meaning first matter. Something we use as a starting point for something can be called a first matter. For example, flour is the prima materia of a wedding cake and is in no way contextually or relatively related to our Prima Materia used in our legitimate Alchemy experiments.


Semantics really.

Kiorionis
12-16-2016, 05:05 PM
Haha well it was really only one question..



Relative, when used as an adjective, means considered in relation or in proportion to something else.

Right, I suppose earlier I was using relativity to express multiple perspectives of the same concept -- the idea that the Prima Materia is a physical substance as well as a philosophical one.

I can't remember where I read it, but it's stuck in my head now.

elixirmixer
01-05-2017, 09:39 AM
Yes, relative to the context, because there is the physical prima materia, and the philosophical one. Physical stone. Spiritual Stone.

Schmuldvich
01-05-2017, 02:26 PM
Yes, relative to the context, because there is the physical prima materia, and the philosophical one. Physical stone. Spiritual Stone.

What do you mean?

Are you able to post any references that agree with what you are saying here?

elixirmixer
01-05-2017, 09:27 PM
Am I able to? Yes... Can I be bothered? No..., but just for you Schmuld, I will give it a crack tonight.

elixirmixer
01-09-2017, 08:53 PM
Got to love you Schmuldvich! Due to two factors, you, being annoying, and AF not running all of yesterday... I was forced to actually read some more alchemical literature, and most particularly, from the list you had given me in the SM thread.

I now know the entire theory (almost) (just need that last part now) of how to create our stone.

So thank you, most particularly to Schmuldvich and Andro, who's being annoying has paid off.

I hope I too, can be annoying, just for you two, and that, through my deep, deep annoyance, you will grow, as I have.

Seriously, Thank you.

IM OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD, THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF AUS!!! :cool:

elixirmixer
01-09-2017, 09:14 PM
Now, I am not going to share what I have discovered concerning the stone. I think that I've given anyone a pretty bloody good start, possibly the most open explanations I've ever read. But what I do want to clarify for you is this:

Nature DOES create this process naturally. It creates the STONE! (you just cant see it cause your blind (truly))

Nature, is your best teacher, not books.

Nature, doesn't need your help, you are not the artist, she is, your just a rabbit at a water dripper, hoping your master remembered to fill your bottle.

Nature, shares the process of the stone EVERYwhere you see her. EVERYWHERE!

One matter? One Flask? Look down. Look up. Your in it.

The emerald tablet is all you need. When you can read that, for what it truly means, then:



By this means you shall have the glory of the whole world
& thereby all obscurity shall fly from you

Schmuldvich
01-09-2017, 10:34 PM
Got to love you Schmuldvich! Due to two factors, you, being annoying, and AF not running all of yesterday... I was forced to actually read some more alchemical literature, and most particularly, from the list you had given me in the SM thread.

I now know the entire theory (almost) (just need that last part now) of how to create our stone.

Well aren't you a quick learner!!!

(That was sarcasm, btw)

I am happy to hear about your progress and even more joyed to see that you took the time out of your day to sit down and read a couple texts. Embrace this feeling you are experiencing! It going to happen to you many more times while you develop a real understanding of Alchemy. Remember to always remember, you are still a total newb (like myself) and do not actually have as sound of a foundation laid as you think you do, though it is encouraging to see your excitement. In a couple months you are going to look back where you are now and laugh with amusement!

Regarding the Emerald Tablet see this: http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4902-The-Emerald-Tablet-What-Does-It-Mean

Looking forward to watching you progress in the Art, elixirmixer! Keep us updated with what you learn!

Schmuldvich
01-09-2017, 10:53 PM
Now, I am not going to share what I have discovered concerning the stone.

Nature, is your best teacher, not books.

Nature, doesn't need your help, you are not the artist, she is

In what ways do you feel Nature teaches us about Alchemy?

If Nature didn't need my help, the whole world would be one gaint Philosopher's Stone by your logic.

Friend, Nature certainly does need the hand of the Artist to intervine and accelerate Nature to its highest potential. Reading texts such as AOETTCPOTK will help to greatly widen your understanding of Alchemy and all the things that come with it.

elixirmixer
01-10-2017, 12:44 AM
In what ways do you feel Nature teaches us about Alchemy?


Nature is the generating spirit, who's warmth, through a subtle motion seeks out to operate upon all things (in this universe)
God has simply set Nature in motion, by a gentle push, through light. By watching nature, we see her operations, the way in which she manifests all that is, our Pistis Sophia, who through coagulation has begotten matter, or another way to put it might be the bodies


If Nature didn't need my help, the whole world would be one gaint Philosopher's Stone by your logic.

It will be. It's not finished yet.


Friend, Nature certainly does need the hand of the Artist to intervine and accelerate Nature to its highest potential. Reading texts such as AOETTCPOTK will help to greatly widen your understanding of Alchemy and all the things that come with it.

I truly truly disagree. 'The Artist', only speeds up nature, in order to partake of its perfection sooner. And in fact this is the practical method of stone production, to replicate nature, unspecified, and to quicken its processes.

IMO. Love to all.

elixirmixer
01-10-2017, 05:22 AM
The Sophic Hydrolith:


Everything contributes to the formation of this Stone. It is conceived below the earth, born in the earth, quickened in heaven, dies in time, obtains eternal glory.

elixirmixer
01-13-2017, 12:16 AM
I have certain watery-like substances that I have collected in the times of the full moon.

I am about to use these two very special waters to try and create the stone.

My question today is one of safety and I believe is mostly directed to Salazius:

Can making the stone at other times of the year other than spring, be dangerous?

elixirmixer
01-13-2017, 07:42 AM
ECCLESIAST. XI.
"He that abides in the fear of the Lord, and cleaves to His Word, and waits faithfully on His office, will transform tin and copper into silver and gold, and will do great things with the help of God: yea, with the grace of Jehovah, he will have power to make gold out of common refuse."

Those are the words of King Solomon.

elixirmixer
01-13-2017, 07:44 AM
ISAIAH XXVIII.
"Therefore, thus saith the Lord: Behold I lay in Zion for a foundation a Stone, a tried Stone, a precious corner Stone, a sure foundation. He that has it shall not be confounded."

elixirmixer
01-13-2017, 09:30 AM
1. Calcination - burning, a breakdown of the 'bonds'

2. Dissolution - Dissolve the matter

3. Separation - reduce the fractions

4. Conjunction - merge fractions

5. Fermentation - yep.

6. Distillation - this, cannot, in my opinion, just mean a standard distillation. This is a special distillation i reacon, and I will not reveal my opinion.

7. Prove once and for all, that the main quality required to transmute lead into God, is a love of God; and nothing else can possibly work. Nothing.

elixirmixer
02-08-2017, 07:01 AM
North flowing magnetics of the Terra.

The geometries of the Pyramid. (Pi - Phi^2)

Zero point energy.

A condensing manifestation in our waters

Bake for 40 minutes.

Serve with love. :D

elixirmixer
02-18-2017, 09:49 PM
So, for all avid Stone Hunters, we continue our work here of enigmatic learning.

Sol and Luna. Twi and La, Ying and Yang. Why?

Why these? Why two? Why not three? Or one?

They say that our matter is One. And yet two. And yet three.

I share with you a great template for the work.

Sol Luna, and the Seed.

Three in the one.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let us look at something else, equally worthy of our inspection, is the fact that there are MANY STONES! Am I right?

How does one decide which is the true stone of the adepts? Well first, one must ask himself, how does one attain to the perfection in matter? And then ask himself, which matter it is that will allow for it's dynamic perfection to take place.

Let's take urine for example... in these golden waters, is there a distinguished Sol and a distinguished Luna? Perhaps, if wrought with patience.

Then again with water. Can we find the white? Will we recieve the red?

And in gold and silver, doth these bring us the prizes we seek?

You can see in all these things, (if you know what your looking for) that a male and female counter-part can be displayed in each. And due to the very nature of the universe, the two can become one, being thrice conjoined and has the potential of Stone-ship.

------------------------------------------------------------

VITRIOL.

Do not the ancient sages tease us?

Is this not another substance, in which the whole work can be completed?

-----------------------------------------------------------

Believe me children, when I say that first and for-most, th matter which you use is of small concern, when learning and applying your theory into practise at the beginning, since, it would be no small thing, to discover the methods that unite ALL these materials, into their final, solid, red form.

Then, once a practitioner has mastered the ART, then one only needs then to refine his chosen material, until he finds that which he seeks. If he wishes to hold that which is unspecified, use an un-specified spirit. If it is the tingeing of te elements ones seeks, it is within the elements that you will find har you are looking for.

Hath Spagyrics no standard?

Is the path a crooked one?

Have you held the Seven?

Have you beheld the Twelve?

Why are we to Spagyrics?

And what have we learnt?

Let go of the three principals, and know that with two, we make one.

Be free, my celestial Masons

elixirmixer
02-23-2017, 11:29 AM
So... In line with this post, being a storehouse of my thoughts and feelings while on the hunt for the stone; I will now share my new insights into all things stony.

Potassium carbonate, upon repeated heatings with a blow torch, slowly becomes more and more fuseable, like glass. With each repeated calcination, the salts will melt easier and easier still.

I believe (and have not yet experienced) that sea salt, will after many calcinations, become more of this crystallised honey consistency.

Why am I so interested by this?

Well... 'The Stone', the goal of our work, can be had in more than the one way. There are different magnets, different devices, different methods.

I am working on my own particular mode and method.

One of my in-volentary mentors, Andro, seems to have expressed a method that relies on a homo-genesistic matter, and (it appears to be lacking in; but I could be wrong) a body, but rather he (Andro) manifests some type of body through his process somewhere. (This is just my interpretation, I could be wrong about what I think andros method is.)

I am suggesting a heterogenous matter, and with the body supplied, in the form of our runny sea salts.

I am very much draw to this "One matter- One Vessal- One fire" way of thinking.

I would really like to attempt my hetero-embodied matter, in the one flask method.

One MAJOR barrier, is my location in the Southern Hemisphere. Does anybody know, what months are important for stone work, and more importantly, how these can be converted for work in the Southern Hemisphere.

Please help out with this one if you can so I can get this Stone on the road.

-----------------------------------------

Putrefaction: some of MY thoughts on putrefaction.

IMO(!) putrefaction cannot occur until there has been a separation of radical humidity. After all, how can something die, if it's still filled with life?

It could appear as if this were not true, since, if you put a matter into vessel, it will first sweat, then the vapours condense and then putrefaction sets in. I believe it is this initial separation of life, that brings the on-set of death. Even if that life returns, it is not re-united with that which is dead, at least, not initially. But rather, that secret fire, sets to work to further along the decay.

Separation of the fire element is essential to putrefaction IMO.

Sooo.... How can we use this practically? How can we test for it?

I am actually going to start my work on the stone, by practising it's methods of manifestation on plant life first.

I have/am slowly learning this REAL(?) definition of 'Alchemy'

It is far more about the 'state' of a matter, rather than it's chemical composition.

I'm getting excited but know I have a world of research ahead of me.

This entire thread is not intended to be very co-herant. So if you don't like it, go hang out with your other stoner friends.

Someone please help with my down under astrological timing problem. It's a bit too mathatical for me.

elixirmixer
03-03-2017, 05:23 AM
My dear friends, whom have had the uttermost patience with me, greetings!

My mantra for the day has been:


Dew on Steriods

And while I have been looking over the works of Hollandus, my mind was drawn away from his plant work and began being drawn towards the hand of the philosophers.

Dare I ask?

-------------------------------------

Hollandus' work on vegetables is exactly what I've been looking for. I've been making Spagyric preparations for some time now and can't help but notice that, while some are still very potent and effective as remedies, they lack in the initiatory virtues that are spoken of by the ancients.

I have believed for some time that it would be possible, and perhaps more philosophical if an elixir was created using ONLY the plant itself. I have meditated on it for some time, yet much like most of my work, I've been walking alone in the dark.

z0 K was generous enough (or sick of reading my err's) to point me in the right direction, and it has been something I've been seeking a long time. I'm very greatful, because to me this is the true way, and no other way.

Love to all of you and your families

E.M.

elixirmixer
03-10-2017, 08:13 AM
As I play catch up with our keyboarded adepts, more epic revo's (revelations) continue to come to light.

Saturn is out blackness, formed through putrefaction (time). And what are we putrefying? Philosophical matter. A philosophical SULFUR philosophical MERCURY philosophical SALT.

When we procure Philosophical WINE we also procure Philosophical VINEGAR and SALT. With the help of it's vulgar waters, it can all be together, a compound, yet it is one thing only.

This, then, one thing, our solvent, is set to putrefying. For from it's putrefaction shall the spirit release it's feces.

Then this spirit is our true Mercury, for it will readily dissolve Sol and Luna, yet not the vulgar gold of the puffers but our gold and luna.

The Stone of the philosophers comes from Saturn, our lead.

For there is no greater power in the VEGETABLE WORK

elixirmixer
03-11-2017, 12:38 AM
There are 4 MAJOR stones that I am aware of:

Vegetable realm: The philosophical Wine stone. (Just a tip for those lost as I once was, this wine stone only has one thing in common with actual wine.)

Animal realm: The manifested essence of Spiritus Animas. The philosophically prepared Blood, sperm or my preferred alternative, honey.

Mineral realm: not lead or antimony. Not gold, silver or mercury, or cinninar, or any of the gross metals at all. Philosophically prepared materials are required.

And then the realm of Un-specified: This is the stone. This is the stone in which all other stones originate from. This is the realm in which all other realms originate from. This is the place of spiritus mundi, the universal spirit. It ought to be this stone that is sought out more than all others for it is the CHIEF CORNER STONE

This word "Philosophical".... It is this word which is the key of our art. When you come to understand it's meaning, you will begin to move from Spagyrics into alchemy. I was a short while ago, on the other side I the fence, getting electrocuted as I tried climbing over. But now that I am chewing greener grasses, I can witness, that it was worth all te waiting and trials.

There are three major stones, and the fourth is their CHIEF

Awani
03-11-2017, 01:06 AM
People who get Stoned are often Stoned by the not-Stoned... which is ironic since getting Stoned is being a witness to the Stone.

:cool:

black
03-11-2017, 01:15 AM
Well now ...Mr. Mixer

It sounds like you have been reading quite a lot.

I wouldn't agree 100% with what you are saying, but I can see that the reading
is connecting some more neurons.

This time next week the story will be slightly different again and it's amazing how quickly our minds can accept new info and work to reason it.

Read, Pray, Meditate.
That's my day planned out.

You have a good one too.

Schmuldvich
03-11-2017, 06:55 AM
I was a short while ago, on the other side I the fence, getting electrocuted as I tried climbing over. But now that I am chewing greener grasses, I can witness, that it was worth all te waiting and trials.

What are the major things you have learned recently?

elixirmixer
03-11-2017, 08:43 PM
I've learnt what the word philosophical means.

I've learnt what the difference between Spagyrics and Alchemy is.

I've learnt how to make the philosophical wine and vinegars of the adepts (made my first batch last night)

I've learnt to be a little less revealing with these secrets :)

I have smelled some celestial scents, and last night I had a dream about separating the four elements.

I learnt how to rap along to this song:

"Addicted" - by Bliss n Eso :cool:

elixirmixer
03-11-2017, 08:52 PM
Mr Black, feel free to critique my last few posts so that I know where I may still be in err.

I am recombining the water with earth today. I am still unsure how to recombine my air and fire.

Would a refluxing work the same as a circulation? Or do our dragon scales require complete dryness through each cycle?

Kiorionis
03-11-2017, 09:04 PM
I've learnt what the word philosophical means.

I've learnt what the difference between Spagyrics and Alchemy is.

I've learnt how to make the philosophical wine and vinegars of the adepts (made my first batch last night)

I've learnt to be a little less revealing with these secrets :)

I have smelled some celestial scents, and last night I had a dream about separating the four elements.

here is a website you might enjoy then: Alchemy Life (http://alchemylife.org/index.html) ;)

alfr
03-12-2017, 06:16 PM
hi elixirmixer's you say:
I've learnt how to make the philosophical wine and vinegars of the adepts (made my first batch last night)

ok sure the philosophical wine and vinegars as say won bermus de lubizc and wendeilphing (in him book segret of adept ) IF ARE THE SECRET TRUE philosophical wine and vinegars

is very very importatant and essential key for to separed all melatal and obtain by it the TRUE internal WHITE Weighing essential matrix mercury "commun"that is the same in all metals that it is the Natural TRUE SOLAR MAGNET of all the metals that it after obtain it we must use it for REAL ATTRACT and capture the TRUE SM etc
yes sure it is excelent key you have made it
(nb and get what TRUE the solar magnet and white mercury Matrix and groaning "common" to all imetals etc is an experience and an appearance unmistakable)

but for see if your philosophical wine and vinegars is the true have you test your philosophical wine and vinegars so it dissolving the gold as ice in water hot?
and your SVP is able to SEPARATE the metal in himself in the matrix TRUE WITE mercury "commun" as is natural in all metal?

my best regard alfr

ps
NB about all this and the TRUE method of as made the TRUE vine phil of raimondo lullo etc are very inportant some writes of lullian alchimist cristoforo parigino.

Schmuldvich
03-12-2017, 09:05 PM
but for see if your philosophical wine and vinegars is the true have you test your philosophical wine and vinegars so it dissolving the gold as ice in water hot?

My man here asking the REAL questions!!

...Your "philosophic" wine is not Philosophic if it does not dissolve gold. Your "philosophic" vinegar is not Philosophic if it does not dissolve gold.

Are you sure you're working with what you think you're working with?

elixirmixer
03-12-2017, 11:02 PM
You know not what your asking.

I'm not as well read as others, but I'm pretty sure that the gold that's being referred to is not the GOLD that I'm looking for...

I'm hoping to do some more research and work out exactly what I need to be doin with these substances, but as far as reaching OUR BLACKNESS, I am confident, although this was mainly a trial run, to see the principals at work. I most likely have not obtained a true separating of the elements, yet, enough to see, and get an idea, of what it is that I'm tryin to achieve.

I suspect, that while I'm trying not to lose or gain anything in these experiments, I think that I still need to calcine the earth to make it pure. Although, if I read correctly, perhaps it is through the circulation of it's waters that it can be brought to purity.

I do believe that out blackness comes from our four elements recombined, and from this OUR MERCURY is sublimated.

I also think that rather than "our philosophical wine should dissolve gold" I think this should read more along the lines of "the properties of philosophical wine are imparted to our mercury, which will dissolve SOL"

What do you think?

elixirmixer
03-12-2017, 11:07 PM
hi elixirmixer's you say:
I've learnt how to make the philosophical wine and vinegars of the adepts (made my first batch last night)

ok sure the philosophical wine and vinegars as say won bermus de lubizc and wendeilphing (in him book segret of adept ) IF ARE THE SECRET TRUE philosophical wine and vinegars

is very very importatant and essential key for to separed all melatal and obtain by it the TRUE internal WHITE Weighing essential matrix mercury "commun"that is the same in all metals that it is the Natural TRUE SOLAR MAGNET of all the metals that it after obtain it we must use it for REAL ATTRACT and capture the TRUE SM etc
yes sure it is excelent key you have made it
(nb and get what TRUE the solar magnet and white mercury Matrix and groaning "common" to all imetals etc is an experience and an appearance unmistakable)

but for see if your philosophical wine and vinegars is the true have you test your philosophical wine and vinegars so it dissolving the gold as ice in water hot?
and your SVP is able to SEPARATE the metal in himself in the matrix TRUE WITE mercury "commun" as is natural in all metal?

my best regard alfr

ps
NB about all this ans the TRUE and the method of as made the TRUE vine phil of raimondo lullo are very inportant the writes of lullian alchimist cristoforo parigino

Thank you Alfr. Are you sayin I should be readying Raymond Lully, and Christofer parigino?

I do expect that these elements, once purified, should be quite a decent SM Magnet, which would be lovely, because I've never made any before :)

elixirmixer
03-28-2017, 06:21 AM
I'm ordering a 5 litre borosilicate alembic retort with joint sizes 55/60 a male-male adapter only about 40mm long after joints, and a 2 litre 55/60 jointed boiling flask.

This is what I will use to sweat the three spirits from my subject, and eventually, to sweat the water of the clouds away from my stone.

There has been an official lab shutdown, and a massive project of demolishing the shed and re-building has commenced.

Only a stone's throw away ;)

Love to you all :)

elixirmixer
04-09-2017, 11:44 AM
"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." - Jesus the Christ

A MEDITATION INTO SPIRITUS MUNDI COLLECTION THEORY
by Elixirmixer

Genesis, as we well know, holds within it the framework or the ideologies that create our world. As the spirit stirred over the waters of void earth, something sparked, and the world began.

This spark, so subtle and pure, has within it an incredible virtue, and that, by a way of giving a sustaining animation within the chemical forms of our bodies. It is clear to the hermetic eyes, that when one passes away, then quickly the bodies decomposes, and it is said that the spirit has left the body.

We know of, from the ancient sages, certain signs and properties that allow us to comprehend the nature of this most subtle of spirits. We know that it is very pure and requires specific conditions otherwise it quickly becomes tainted or flys away. We know that it penetrates all things, and that it is in all forms of life, being the Spirit of the World. We hear stories of melting gold like ice, spontaneous germination, as well as miraculous healings.

Yet in this work, it is the Holy Spirit's property of penetration that should be of most concern to the artist. For you see, due to the fact that Our Light can penetrate glass, it can go where air cannot. Because it can penetrate earth, it can go where light cannot. Because it can penetrate lead, it can go where radiation cannot. Because it can penetrate copper, it can go where RF waves cannot.

And here we find our vessel. In the place where nothing else is. For what is in the place in which nothing else is? Simply, the only thing that can get there; Spiritus Mundi.

Yet how, in the empty place which is our vessel, shall we condense something so subtle it can penetrate lead, steel, and copper?

If you have made it this far, then you know that it is with the use of a particular magnet.

Now this magnet has been the subject of a hundred books. And in reality, it is not one specific thing. Should we find our magnet in a grotto, or perhaps at the bottom of an oak tree? Either way, I'm sure that condensing this sacred moisture will find you well, for even without our hidden substances, she still awaits you, and in the gentle heat of a mothers touch, she will be yours.

And then, what more need be said, seeing we know what it is we seek. And now, we know where to find it. Where nothing else is. Deliquescence of these meditations will do good for your mind. Find peace in them. Find the stone. And may we dine, with our loved ones, and with the poor.

Amen.

elixirmixer
08-05-2017, 10:28 PM
Okay. My work into creating the stone has officially begun.

Now... No ones ever really explained to me how to make the stone, (no surprises there) and I don't understand at all really the allegory of the Toad and dragon so that's really not going to be much help to us.

There are many ways to create the philosophers stone, some use a particular array of salts called The Hand of the Philosophers, a deeply encrypted symbol, for the sons of art, assisting to explain the compilation of mineral stones.

We will not be doing that.

There is also the very interesting subject called the Sophilic Hydrolith, the Water stone of the wise. While being quite universal, however, this stone I expect would lack te potency that this artist is seeking.

And then of course, the purist method, pure SM, one flask - one matter ect, that matures itself into the stone via auto-feedback mechanisms.

HOWEVER; as we can see, there is a great diversity in our art, there are more than one way to skin a cat, and in the I treats of both TIME and POTENCY, I have decided to design my own hybrid method of creating the true Elixir.

An this is my method:
Take pure SM, add to 0.1gram of pulvis Solaris, drop that straight into mineralised green gold crystals (my interpretation of the green lion)

Circulate, an as vapours thicken and lessen, slowly increase the fire, until all has coagulated and resists a decent heat.

That is the plan!!!

Now I know what your thinking: Elixirmixer is dreaming again and saying he's going to do all this stuff which he's never going to do....

And most of the time, you'd be right, HOWEVER, many things are happening at this stage to facilitate my mission, ad I will be posting some photos today of my first attempts at creating PULVIS SOLARIS.

Cool ey? Stay tuned ;)

Kiorionis
08-05-2017, 11:13 PM
Quite cool :)

Can't wait!

elixirmixer
08-06-2017, 02:09 AM
The weather hasnt permitted the first trial. And it was looking like such a good day this morning...

elixirmixer
08-07-2017, 12:43 AM
Well now ...Mr. Mixer

It sounds like you have been reading quite a lot.

I wouldn't agree 100% with what you are saying, but I can see that the reading
is connecting some more neurons.

This time next week the story will be slightly different again and it's amazing how quickly our minds can accept new info and work to reason it.

Read, Pray, Meditate.
That's my day planned out.

You have a good one too.

It's funny, I'm just going back over this thread and re-reading, and it's amazing how many mistakes I've goin in what was my interpretation only some months ago...

I've quoted Mr. Black here to point out that to the intitated eye, these things are "obvious" as it was for Mr. Black to observe my changes, improvements and mistakes.

I know now that I really don't understand putrefaction very well and my previous contemplations are not based in any experiential value.

There is still so much I don't know about this process... Yet I've learnt more than I ever expected to learn since studying these forums...

What were the great Egyptian kings, doing with all their time and resources?

Making SM!!!

Not cloning there own personal celebrity sex army.

They were evolving their souls by trying to replace their own body weight in SM and pulvis Solaris.

Therefore; what should I e doig with my time and resources??

I fired my army. :cool:

Schmuldvich
08-07-2017, 02:45 AM
It's funny, I'm just going back over this thread and re-reading, and it's amazing how many mistakes I've goin in what was my interpretation only some months ago...

to the intitated eye, these things are "obvious"

I know now that I really don't understand putrefaction very well

There is still so much I don't know about this process... Yet I've learnt more than I ever expected to learn since studying these forums...

They were evolving their souls by trying to replace their own body weight in SM and pulvis Solaris.

Therefore; what should I be doing with my time and resources??

You should be taking every second of your free time to read the words of the Sages!

This list of Alchemy texts is a good place to start: http://www.rexresearch.com/alchindx.htm
Reading texts pre-1800's is what I would suggest.
Read as many per day as your eyes can endure.

You are unemployed, have minimal obligations, and should be reading at least 3 or 4 of these treatises a day for the next couple of months until you have a better understanding of our Art before you ever attempt to commence the Great Work.

You will never prepare the Philosopher's Stone until you comprehend what the Ancients wrote.

As you point out above, you still do not understand our Putrefaction.

You must understand this before you begin, elixirmixer. If you do not understand how our Putrefaction works or what our Putrefaction is you will get absolutely nowhere; there is no way around this fact. Putrefaction is the open entrance to the closed palace of the king!

If you understood what spiritus mundi is (like you claim), you would need nothing else. But you do not understand spiritus mundi. Quit fooling yourself. You do not know what spiritus mundi truly is and you will never ever "condense" spiritus mundi the way any of the recent posts on this message board claim to...NEVER! I have warned you before and I will do so again here in the open, the number of people on Alchemy Forums who know what they are talking about (regarding the Philosopher's Stone) is sparse. Intelligent minds are abundant here, experts and scholars in other areas, but lacking a fundamental understanding of our Art.

Alchemy is easy. Alchemists describe it as women's work and child's play.

Our Processes are not hard to rightfully perform. Remember that people during the 1100's and before were doing this and succeeding with exceedingly little technology or resources available like we have today. This alone should be a wake-up call to you. Unlearn everything you think you have learned here. Start fresh, putrefy your old ways, separate the dross from the truth, seal your mind with comprehensive wisdom, ascend to heights you never thought were possible, combine Patience with Time, and you will obtain our Universal Solvent. This is the only way.

Without our Water you will get nowhere. This is the first Gate you must open before you advance to the Inner Gates of this cryptically enigmatic Art.

The texts will show you the Way...the ONE Way...our True and Natural Path. Spend time getting acquainted with the volume of texts available today.


Please know I am trying to help you (in my own way), as I have been doing since the day you started posting here.
I want you to succeed.

black
08-07-2017, 03:54 AM
You should be taking every second of your free time to read the words of the Sages!

This list of Alchemy texts is a good place to start: http://www.rexresearch.com/alchindx.htm
Reading texts pre-1800's is what I would suggest.
Read as many per day as your eyes can endure.

You are unemployed, have minimal obligations, and should be reading at least 3 or 4 of these treatises a day for the next couple of months until you have a better understanding of our Art before you ever attempt to commence the Great Work.

You will never prepare the Philosopher's Stone until you comprehend what the Ancients wrote.

As you point out above, you still do not understand our Putrefaction.

You must understand this before you begin, elixirmixer. If you do not understand how our Putrefaction works or what our Putrefaction is you will get absolutely nowhere; there is no way around this fact. Putrefaction is the open entrance to the closed palace of the king!

If you understood what spiritus mundi is (like you claim), you would need nothing else. But you do not understand spiritus mundi. Quit fooling yourself. You do not know what spiritus mundi truly is and you will never ever "condense" spiritus mundi the way any of the recent posts on this message board claim to...NEVER! I have warned you before and I will do so again here in the open, the number of people on Alchemy Forums who know what they are talking about (regarding the Philosopher's Stone) is sparse. Intelligent minds are abundant here, experts and scholars in other areas, but lacking a fundamental understanding of our Art.

Alchemy is easy. Alchemists describe it as women's work and child's play.

Our Processes are not hard to rightfully perform. Remember that people during the 1100's and before were doing this and succeeding with exceedingly little technology or resources available like we have today. This alone should be a wake-up call to you. Unlearn everything you think you have learned here. Start fresh, putrefy your old ways, separate the dross from the truth, seal your mind with comprehensive wisdom, ascend to heights you never thought were possible, combine Patience with Time, and you will obtain our Universal Solvent. This is the only way.

Without our Water you will get nowhere. This is the first Gate you must open before you advance to the Inner Gates of this cryptically enigmatic Art.

The texts will show you the Way...the ONE Way...our True and Natural Path. Spend time getting acquainted with the volume of texts available today.


Please know I am trying to help you (in my own way), as I have been doing since the day you started posting here.
I want you to succeed.


Yes Mr. Schmuldvich what you write here is most true and correct to my belief.

This advice should not be taken lightly by anyone seriously pursuing Alchemy.

The only other way to the Great Work is if some Master told you what to do, and
I am sure that a student would have to spend many, many years studying with a
Master before he/she is given any Keys to enter the Great Work.

I was told quite a lot of years ago that if I learned Patience and how to Relax
then I would have everything. I'm still working on it !!!!

These are some of the essential traits needed for the Work.

Axismundi000
08-07-2017, 06:55 AM
Yes Mr. Schmuldvich what you write here is most true and correct to my belief.

This advice should not be taken lightly by anyone seriously pursuing Alchemy.

The only other way to the Great Work is if some Master told you what to do, and
I am sure that a student would have to spend many, many years studying with a
Master before he/she is given any Keys to enter the Great Work.

I was told quite a lot of years ago that if I learned Patience and how to Relax
then I would have everything. I'm still working on it !!!!

These are some of the essential traits needed for the Work.

Whether this is true or not is meaningless. I have not achieved either the stone or SM but I could easily prattle on in the exactly same manner as given above here. The only purpose served is narcissism because it would be easy for a person 'up their own arse' agreeing wholeheartedly to say the same thing. As I mentioned on another thread this kind of thing is common on various forums on diverse subjects and often serves as a psychological crutch.

A telling sign this is patronising narcissism is that no mention is made (except by me) of practical resources their good points or failings. E.G. Steve Kalec's Vimeo videos no-one says a word about them good or bad, what they mught lack, what they are useful for yet this in the field of Alchemy this is historic and only possible in the modern day thanks to the internet. Instead we have 'read the old texts daily and meditate'. Whilst this has some advantages anyone can say that bullshit, effectively nothing is contributed and I genuinely feel this is nothing more than a patronising type of on-line forum narcissism.

black
08-07-2017, 08:41 AM
Whether this is true or not is meaningless. I have not achieved either the stone or SM but I could easily prattle on in the exactly same manner as given above here. The only purpose served is narcissism because it would be easy for a person 'up their own arse' agreeing wholeheartedly to say the same thing. As I mentioned on another thread this kind of thing is common on various forums on diverse subjects and often serves as a psychological crutch.

A telling sign this is patronising narcissism is that no mention is made (except by me) of practical resources their good points or failings. E.G. Steve Kalec's Vimeo videos no-one says a word about them good or bad, what they mught lack, what they are useful for yet this in the field of Alchemy this is historic and only possible in the modern day thanks to the internet. Instead we have 'read the old texts daily and meditate'. Whilst this has some advantages anyone can say that bullshit, effectively nothing is contributed and I genuinely feel this is nothing more than a patronising type of on-line forum narcissism.

Over the many years that I have studied alchemy I have not become angry or vindictive
towards those few gifted Master Alchemists that could have private messaged me with
the full instructions on how to make the Philosophers Stone.

I am sure they are out there somewhere.

They have (the master alchemists) the knowledge and understanding that this Great Work is a very personal quest, and by freely handing out these keys they would be depriving the student of personal growth and so much more.

What has plagued me over the years is the frustration of how stupid and slow I am
to grasp clearly the True Meaning from the books that I study.

I am not trying to be patronizing or narcissistic.

Only trying to push the point that unwearied study is so very important to gaining even
the faintest understanding of Alchemy.

Axismundi000
08-07-2017, 09:44 AM
The above is nothing more than a smokescreen. Any person (including myself) could apply to join this site and having got through the filtering turn up and say exactly the same thing and all the other stuff previous, pasting texts that are well known and have good commentaries. That person could pretend they have achieved things but haven't and keep going in this manner for years. The post is therefore homogenous with all the other stuff.

In magic often people sell spells offering that the customer could gain huge wealth etc but the obvious point is if they could do that why are they selling magical services they could have just done a spell and be chilling in the Bahamas etc so clearly caveat emptor. It concerns me that people pretending on-line to have the stone are doing similar and are hoping to be approached privately (pm) and offered money by a desperate person who has a terminal disease for example.

Against who exactly is the anger and vindictiveness here? I see some who actually post practical material on-line and these may not be the philosophers stone or SM but it is useful stuff and free. These folks I think have integrity they show plenty for a person to progress not just say go read a bunch of old Alchemy books and meditate. People who show nothing and just paste tracts of text I suspect are often nothing more than armchair Alchemists who go on-line and pretend stuff they could never do, not even showing lesser works to demonstrate their integrity.

black
08-07-2017, 10:24 AM
The above is nothing more than a smokescreen. Any person (including myself) could apply to join this site and having got through the filtering turn up and say exactly the same thing and all the other stuff previous, pasting texts that are well known and have good commentaries. That person could pretend they have achieved things but haven't and keep going in this manner for years. The post is therefore homogenous with all the other stuff.

In magic often people sell spells offering that the customer could gain huge wealth etc but the obvious point is if they could do that why are they selling magical services they could have just done a spell and be chilling in the Bahamas etc so clearly caveat emptor. It concerns me that people pretending on-line to have the stone are doing similar and are hoping to be approached privately (pm) and offered money by a desperate person who has a terminal disease for example.

Against who exactly is the anger and vindictiveness here? I see some who actually post practical material on-line and these may not be the philosophers stone or SM but it is useful stuff and free. These folks I think have integrity they show plenty for a person to progress not just say go read a bunch of old Alchemy books and meditate. People who show nothing and just paste tracts of text I suspect are often nothing more than armchair Alchemists who go on-line and pretend stuff they could never do, not even showing lesser works to demonstrate their integrity.

It's not about what any of us can get from other people or what they might have or say they have.

What other people or Alchemists or Magicians have is irrelevant.

The Alchemic quest is about what each person learns and how that person evolves.

It appears to me that as each of us evolve we gain more understanding.

I believe that this evolution of self cannot be given but that each person must attain it for themselves.

But I could be wrong.

Axismundi000
08-07-2017, 10:38 AM
Again what you say has potential veracity but is absolutely useless and all to often is in the service of narcissism and the armchair Alchemist.

Surely an advanced practitioner such as yourself could give practical examples of aspects of work which are interesting but don't revealed SM or the stone. But people like you never do it's always the same pasting tracts of old Alchemy books and pretending you have achieved mastery. I think someone who has achieved mastery would not do this nor make claims they are not prepared verify, they would either keep silent or offer lesser things to stimulate progress in others. Not quote from old books, say read at least 4 of these each day and meditate then someone else come on-line and agree (here here rhubarb rhubarb).

elixirmixer
08-07-2017, 10:58 AM
I wish i had the easy comfortable schedule your referring too, alas, children are somewhat more demanding then even the Australian government so it doesn't leave too much room for this endless tome gorge your referring too, although i have had them and recently a lot with Hollandus.

So while begging for answers, and claiming it was for the sake of a broader understanding of perspectives, now you subtly impliy that YOU are one of THE art. (Schmuldvichich)

Of which in itself directly implies that YOU have some particular METHOD of condjuring THE stone....

So then, questions man... what say YOU about our spirit? I could pull a million quotes from yourself along the lines of "What is it really or how is it created"....

Do you, or do you not know how this substance is created? do you even believe in it since you seem to doubt others who claim to work with it...

Im sure more reading is required, what do you recommend?

Putrefaction.. lets see:

Our Mercury is born of Putrefaction (isnt it cool how the term mercury can be used to mean a variety of different stages of the work!?)

Putrefaction is a process of densinging, in which subtle matter can release its feces, where it dies, and regenerates new life.

I did believe that matter required the removal of the fire element in order to putrefy however now im thinking that, that could be difficult to achieve.

My questions are, what stage does this apply too? What f'ing matter are you talking about since your all excited by the different rocks people post? How do you make the spirit then you bastard if ya so sure that im wrong, or even, how do you think that i think im suppose to make it, since i dont believe you've at all broken down my forum encrypting, and you would be quite bold to try to plot your own against the great Mixer.

I believe you know your alchemy well, however, as ive said, there are potentially an infinite amount of stones, and therefore the possibility of an infinite amount of 'paths' you could be lost down, while claiming the only one.

Im not sure if ive made this clear enough yet but if not here tis; The only stone that "I" consider IMO to be the absolute TRUE stone, is the stone created from spiritus mundi alone, which Andro has shared quite openly in the spiritus mundi thread, therefore, you hipeing up at every stone we turn over makes me consider that your absolutely full of massive turds Mr. Schmuldvich and that your understanding has just as many places to grow as my own.

I dont dig this 'first matter' being a substance BS. Gold is fine for a source of sulfur, Silver also )if prepared well(

Axis is right, in that its really hard to tell when someone is talking bullshit or not, and thats not to be rude but just that it is difficult since many of us do not want to be naive.

What is it actually Schmuldvich that you think i am missing that i need to be hunting these old tomes
?

elixirmixer
08-07-2017, 11:23 AM
My wife told me I'm getting drunk and disorderly, so ill leave the rest for next time, HOWEVER

IF there is any one here that DOES want to empower elixirmixer to save the world by teaching him anything practical, or even decisively theoretical! then my ears are all ears :cool: but yeah, as Axis points out, and as we are all aware, talk is cheap.

Shit, wifes coming back, gotta go!

Schmuldvich
08-07-2017, 01:28 PM
Ask yourself this question, elixirmixer, "Would I rather tome gorge for two months,
or would I rather spend two years & tons of money aimlessly achieving nothing?"

See, to me the question is easy to answer, but your answer might be different than mine...



I wish i had the easy comfortable schedule your referring too, alas, children are somewhat more demanding then even the Australian government so it doesn't leave too much room for this endless tome gorge your referring too, although i have had them and recently a lot with Hollandus.
Now how bad do you really want this? If Alchemy your true passion, which is seems it is, every waking second of your life not dedicated to your wife & child should be committed to studying Alchemy.



So while begging for answers, and claiming it was for the sake of a broader understanding of perspectives, now you subtly impliy that YOU are one of THE art.
I was not claiming my inquiries were for the sake of broader understanding, I was telling that my inquiries were proposed to elicit fruitful discussion to see who here knows what.



Of which in itself directly implies that YOU have some particular METHOD of condjuring THE stone....
It is not a particular method. The Path I follow is the ONE and ONLY Method that will produce our Universal Solvent that successfully places the Philosopher's Stone in one's possession.



So then, questions man... what say YOU about our spirit? I could pull a million quotes from yourself along the lines of "What is it really or how is it created"....
Our Spirit is likened to the tears of Diana. Our Spirit is Universal. It is the sole subject that does the work for us and carries out the Processes outlined by the Sages. This is not a Work of human hands.



Do you, or do you not know how this substance is created? do you even believe in it since you seem to doubt others who claim to work with it...Im sure more reading is required, what do you recommend?
Yes, I know how this Substance is created. I have seen it with my own eyes. It arises from our Matter. It is a tangible substance capable of enlivening our Matter to plusquam perfection, truly.

I already gave you a list of all the treatises you should read. Start there. Many more texts are available once you get done reading. R.A.M.S. would be the next place I would recommend after you finish the myriad of texts freely available online.

When you finish reading the R.A.M.S. Collection and every text available online reach out to me and I will provide you with more texts not readily accessible, but by then you should have a firm grip on our Art and already have a sound foundation to stand upon.



Putrefaction.. lets see: Our Mercury is born of Putrefaction (isnt it cool how the term mercury can be used to mean a variety of different stages of the work!?) Putrefaction is a process of densinging, in which subtle matter can release its feces, where it dies, and regenerates new life. I did believe that matter required the removal of the fire element in order to putrefy however now im thinking that, that could be difficult to achieve.


http://i.imgur.com/5Mclr0i.jpg

Putrefaction is the breaking down of a substance. It is the Key to Generation. It is the 'solve' in the Solve et Coagula phrase you are familiar with. Without this process we can achieve nothing in our Art. It is a necessary Stage that must take place in order to enter the open entrance to the closed palace of the king.

The texts that you are so reluctant to read explain Putrefaction in excruciating detail. Putrefaction is one of the most spoken of Stages of our Art. Coincidentally it is one of the first Processes one must master before progressing to a later Stage.

"Verbum Disimissum" (1480) explains it well...


"Black colour, which is first and it is the key of the Beginning of the Work. This mass thus Blackened is the Key and sign of perfect invention."

"Donum Dei" (1475) gives more detail...


"Here is required by how long time the stone is to be turned into blackness and what is the figure of true solution of the stone when blackness appeareth the first time it is figure of putrefaction and solution of the stone, but when it is vanished away and clearly gone it is a sign of the whole putrefaction of the stone and of the dissolution thereof, or else it is demanded if the black clouds endure in the foresaid stone by the space of 40 days, I answer sometimes it doth more, and sometimes less, this variation chanceth of the variety and quantity of the medicine, and according to the wisdom of the worker, wherefore the more quantity requireth more time, and the less the less."

"Zoraster's Cave (1667) encourages us...


"When in the work blacknesse appears, know that thou hast found the right way of working. Then rejoice, for God has given thee a very Great and pretious Gift."

"Hydropyrographum Hermeticum" (1680) provides us with rhyme...


"Take fresh, pure, quick, white and clear,
Tye him hands and heels so near,
With a most puissant cord and yoke,
That he may be mortified and choked.
Reduce him by his like homogeneous Nature,
To his first Being, or primogeneous feature,
Within the close Chamber or House of Putrefaction,
According to Dame Nature’s indication:
Then you will have a living spiritual Fountain,
Flowing bright and clear from Heaven’s Mountain,
Feeding on its proper flesh and blood,
Therewithall increasing to an endless Flood."

"The Root Of The World" (1250) speaks more of Putrefaction...


"The first work is the reducing the body into water, that is, into mercury. And this the philosophers called dissolution, which is the foundation of the whole art. This dissolution makes the body of an evident liquidity, and absolute subtility; and this is done by a gentle grinding, and a soft and continued assation or digestion."

"A Chymical Treatise" (1299) furnishes us with more understanding...


"The first word in this great work is the bodies transmutation into Mercury and this the Philosophers have called a dissolution. And this Artificiall and ingenious dissolveing is the bulwark of this art. Hence saith Rosarey, Unlesse you dissolve the bodies, Your Labor is in vaine."



My questions are, what stage does this apply too? What f'ing matter are you talking about since your all excited by the different rocks people post? How do you make the spirit then you bastard if ya so sure that im wrong, or even, how do you think that i think im suppose to make it, since i dont believe you've at all broken down my forum encrypting, and you would be quite bold to try to plot your own against the great Mixer.
The answers are all in the texts you are unwilling to read.



I believe you know your alchemy well, however, as ive said, there are potentially an infinite amount of stones, and therefore the possibility of an infinite amount of 'paths' you could be lost down, while claiming the only one.
This is a misunderstanding of Alchemy on your part. There is not an infinite amount of stones, far from it. Possibility of an infinite amount of paths is possible...but not True. There is ONE Path to the Philosopher's Stone and it is a straight and narrow road that few travel.



Im not sure if ive made this clear enough yet but if not here tis; The only stone that "I" consider IMO to be the absolute TRUE stone, is the stone created from spiritus mundi alone, which Andro has shared quite openly in the spiritus mundi thread, therefore, you hipeing up at every stone we turn over makes me consider that your absolutely full of massive turds Mr. Schmuldvich and that your understanding has just as many places to grow as my own. I dont dig this 'first matter' being a substance BS. Gold is fine for a source of sulfur, Silver also (if prepared well)
Fantastic, elixirmixer. I am happy to hear your opinions! It does not matter what you 'dig' or not; Truth is Truth. Gold is a fine source of Sulphur, and silver also, but only if you possess our Universal Solvent. There is no way around this. Gold is a dead substance and completely useless in our Art...and so is silver...unless you have our Universal Solvent.



Axis is right, in that its really hard to tell when someone is talking bullshit or not
No...it's not. You do it all the time. Once someone's eyes are Opened and they sincerely have the ability to See, this and many other things become clear. All obscurity will flee from you and it will be uncomplicated and easy to sift the wheat from the chaff.



What is it actually Schmuldvich that you think i am missing that i need to be hunting these old tomes
EVERYTHING.

--------------------------------------------------


You should be taking every second of your free time to read the words of the Sages!

This list of Alchemy texts is a good place to start: http://www.rexresearch.com/alchindx.htm
Reading texts pre-1800's is what I would suggest.
Read as many per day as your eyes can endure.

You are unemployed, have minimal obligations, and should be reading at least 3 or 4 of these treatises a day for the next couple of months until you have a better understanding of our Art before you ever attempt to commence the Great Work.

You will never prepare the Philosopher's Stone until you comprehend what the Ancients wrote.

As you point out above, you still do not understand our Putrefaction.

You must understand this before you begin, elixirmixer. If you do not understand how our Putrefaction works or what our Putrefaction is you will get absolutely nowhere; there is no way around this fact. Putrefaction is the open entrance to the closed palace of the king!

If you understood what spiritus mundi is (like you claim), you would need nothing else. But you do not understand spiritus mundi. Quit fooling yourself. You do not know what spiritus mundi truly is and you will never ever "condense" spiritus mundi the way any of the recent posts on this message board claim to...NEVER! I have warned you before and I will do so again here in the open, the number of people on Alchemy Forums who know what they are talking about (regarding the Philosopher's Stone) is sparse. Intelligent minds are abundant here, experts and scholars in other areas, but lacking a fundamental understanding of our Art.

Alchemy is easy. Alchemists describe it as women's work and child's play.

Our Processes are not hard to rightfully perform. Remember that people during the 1100's and before were doing this and succeeding with exceedingly little technology or resources available like we have today. This alone should be a wake-up call to you. Unlearn everything you think you have learned here. Start fresh, putrefy your old ways, separate the dross from the truth, seal your mind with comprehensive wisdom, ascend to heights you never thought were possible, combine Patience with Time, and you will obtain our Universal Solvent. This is the only way.

Without our Water you will get nowhere. This is the first Gate you must open before you advance to the Inner Gates of this cryptically enigmatic Art.

The texts will show you the Way...the ONE Way...our True and Natural Path. Spend time getting acquainted with the volume of texts available today.


Please know I am trying to help you (in my own way), as I have been doing since the day you started posting here.
I want you to succeed.


Yes Mr. Schmuldvich what you write here is most true and correct to my belief.

This advice should not be taken lightly by anyone seriously pursuing Alchemy.

The only other way to the Great Work is if some Master told you what to do, and
I am sure that a student would have to spend many, many years studying with a
Master before he/she is given any Keys to enter the Great Work.

I was told quite a lot of years ago that if I learned Patience and how to Relax
then I would have everything. I'm still working on it !!!!

These are some of the essential traits needed for the Work.


Whether this is true or not is meaningless. I have not achieved either the stone or SM but I could easily prattle on in the exactly same manner as given above here. The only purpose served is narcissism because it would be easy for a person 'up their own arse' agreeing wholeheartedly to say the same thing. As I mentioned on another thread this kind of thing is common on various forums on diverse subjects and often serves as a psychological crutch.

A telling sign this is patronising narcissism is that no mention is made (except by me) of practical resources their good points or failings. E.G. Steve Kalec's Vimeo videos no-one says a word about them good or bad, what they mught lack, what they are useful for yet this in the field of Alchemy this is historic and only possible in the modern day thanks to the internet. Instead we have 'read the old texts daily and meditate'. Whilst this has some advantages anyone can say that bullshit, effectively nothing is contributed and I genuinely feel this is nothing more than a patronising type of on-line forum narcissism.


Over the many years that I have studied alchemy I have not become angry or vindictive
towards those few gifted Master Alchemists that could have private messaged me with
the full instructions on how to make the Philosophers Stone.

I am sure they are out there somewhere.

They have (the master alchemists) the knowledge and understanding that this Great Work is a very personal quest, and by freely handing out these keys they would be depriving the student of personal growth and so much more.

What has plagued me over the years is the frustration of how stupid and slow I am
to grasp clearly the True Meaning from the books that I study.

I am not trying to be patronizing or narcissistic.

Only trying to push the point that unwearied study is so very important to gaining even
the faintest understanding of Alchemy.


The above is nothing more than a smokescreen. Any person (including myself) could apply to join this site and having got through the filtering turn up and say exactly the same thing and all the other stuff previous, pasting texts that are well known and have good commentaries. That person could pretend they have achieved things but haven't and keep going in this manner for years. The post is therefore homogenous with all the other stuff.

In magic often people sell spells offering that the customer could gain huge wealth etc but the obvious point is if they could do that why are they selling magical services they could have just done a spell and be chilling in the Bahamas etc so clearly caveat emptor. It concerns me that people pretending on-line to have the stone are doing similar and are hoping to be approached privately (pm) and offered money by a desperate person who has a terminal disease for example.

Against who exactly is the anger and vindictiveness here? I see some who actually post practical material on-line and these may not be the philosophers stone or SM but it is useful stuff and free. These folks I think have integrity they show plenty for a person to progress not just say go read a bunch of old Alchemy books and meditate. People who show nothing and just paste tracts of text I suspect are often nothing more than armchair Alchemists who go on-line and pretend stuff they could never do, not even showing lesser works to demonstrate their integrity.


It's not about what any of us can get from other people or what they might have or say they have.

What other people or Alchemists or Magicians have is irrelevant.

The Alchemic quest is about what each person learns and how that person evolves.

It appears to me that as each of us evolve we gain more understanding.

I believe that this evolution of self cannot be given but that each person must attain it for themselves.

But I could be wrong.


Again what you say has potential veracity but is absolutely useless and all to often is in the service of narcissism and the armchair Alchemist.

Surely an advanced practitioner such as yourself could give practical examples of aspects of work which are interesting but don't revealed SM or the stone. But people like you never do it's always the same pasting tracts of old Alchemy books and pretending you have achieved mastery. I think someone who has achieved mastery would not do this nor make claims they are not prepared verify, they would either keep silent or offer lesser things to stimulate progress in others. Not quote from old books, say read at least 4 of these each day and meditate then someone else come on-line and agree (here here rhubarb rhubarb).

Axis, narcissism is excessive interest in oneself...

What I am doing here is far from narcissism; I am helping a Brother of the Art (in my own way). Selflessly taking the time to post and presenting guideposts with proddings that aid the honest Seeker such as Elixirmixer is not narcissistic by any means.

Anyone can say anything ('bullshit' as you put it...), but it is another thing to back up one's words with proof of Understanding as I have done here.

Never do I post my own Work publicly on the Internet. This is an exception.


http://i.imgur.com/buitv6F.jpg

Of course what I post here today could be fraudulent...This could be black ink in water, or something else altogether, who knows what it is? but to those who know Truth and have a legitimate understanding of Alchemy, the images I provide today serve as irrefutable proof even to the skeptic that I know what I speak of.

---------------------------------------------------

My wife told me I'm getting drunk and disorderly, so ill leave the rest for next time, HOWEVER

talk is cheap.

Shit, wifes coming back, gotta go!

It would greatly aid in your search, elixirmixer, if you abstain from drinking alcohol and sober up.

JDP
08-07-2017, 04:52 PM
A telling sign this is patronising narcissism is that no mention is made (except by me) of practical resources their good points or failings. E.G. Steve Kalec's Vimeo videos no-one says a word about them good or bad, what they mught lack, what they are useful for yet this in the field of Alchemy this is historic and only possible in the modern day thanks to the internet.

I am familiar with Steve Kalec, for a good number of years we have been members of a couple of alchemy forums and groups and exchanged many messages in those places. I can tell you that Steve has not succeeded in preparing the Stone. And he never has claimed to have done so either. He is really more of a "spagyrist".

Axismundi000
08-07-2017, 05:24 PM
Steve Kalec can speak for himself I am not a student of his and it makes no difference what he may or may not claim. Personally I appreciate his Vimeo contributions, would that other people followed his example and let the labwork speak for itself rather then some guff about reading 4 Alchemy books a day and then meditating.

Illen A. Cluf
08-07-2017, 05:35 PM
Steve Kalec can speak for himself I am not a student of his and it makes no difference what he may or may not claim. Personally I appreciate his Vimeo contributions, would that other people followed his example and let the labwork speak for itself rather then some guff about reading 4 Alchemy books a day and then meditating.

Proper labwork is impossible without first understanding what the alchemists actually meant when they wrote what they did. That indeed DOES require endless reading and comprehension. There are numerous alchemists who stress the importance of reading over and over and over again. There's even a famous Latin expression that they often like to quote: "Lege, lege, relege, labora et invenies" ("Read, read, read again and you shall find").

The biggest myth that modern alchemists have spread is that one can read a handful of books and then begin the labwork immediately, by following the literal directions and never studying again. These people hail labworkers as heroes and look down on those who spend the effort to do exactly as the ancients have instructed - read! Don't just read the practical parts of the texts, but deeply study the theoretical parts as well.

The labwork is simple women's or children's work. It is used to prepare the matter only. Nature does the rest. Without understanding how Nature does its work, the labwork is quite useless. Understanding how Nature works requires a very deep philosophical understanding. That is why the ancient alchemists were called "Philosophers" rather than Practioners. And yes, "Putrefaction" is an extremely important 'philosophical' term. It does not at all mean putrefaction as we understand it today. Like so many terms that the philosophers used, this term has a philosophical or symbolic meaning only. Putrefaction as we understand it today occurs in the vegetable and animal kingdoms. When applied to the Mineral Kingdom, it has a symbolic attribution, since part of the process and observation resembles that of the putrefaction in the other two kingdoms.

Axismundi000
08-07-2017, 06:05 PM
True Labwork is the outer activity which must be accompanied by a personal spiritual unfoldment and understanding of Alchemy. If I were to look at thousands of posts on this forum I would be advised of this in many many ways, of the spiritual component of Alchemy. Yet Illen A. Cluf you write as if I might not have realised this or indeed have never posted about such concepts on this forum myself. Patronising only really works if someone has yet to discuss the particular issues of a topic in any way.

As I have said previous reading Alchemy texts and meditating is probably a good thing, so now that this has been mentioned so many times on this forum would someone like to add something practical as well. I mean in the practical Alchemy section of this forum how little actual practical stuff is present. Just this hey go read and meditate which is just a load of pseudo Alchemists doing a circle jerk possibly.

Axismundi000
08-07-2017, 06:35 PM
A salient point here I think:

I am reminded of how traditional Kung Fu masters train students in Hong Kong. They simply do the form allowing the student to observe, occasionally they may turn up and instruct the student to practice and correct them, but it can be years between visits. Traditional Kung Fu as I'm sure many are aware has a strong emphasis on the spiritual as well as the combative.

Illen A. Cluf
08-07-2017, 06:55 PM
The only way that someone can positively contribute by posting practical work, is if that work actually leads to the production of the Stone. Anything else is mostly a waste of time and effort. Thus, when one actually begins to post practical information directly related to real alchemy, it should be understood that that person has fully comprehended what the alchemists wrote, and is prepared to offer insights or observations that could help others.

I personally doubt that there are more than a small handful of people in the world today (if any) who have actually come that close. The rest of the practical work that has been offered by modern "alchemists" is only work that has become a trendy concept of what so many others before them have thought to be the truth, but which actually never led anywhere (for example the antimony path). By appearing to practice these trendy and well-tried approaches, and showing their colorful photos of the lab work, they begin to be admired by their peers, and become part of their social circles. This gathering and condoning of these concepts only encourages others to join in expanding these concepts even further. Soon a whole new approach to alchemy is borne that has gone far astray of the original teachings.

Thus, in my opinion, at this stage in my own study, I'm FAR more interested in the theoretical and philosophical discussions of how Nature works, than in any number of lab pictures from the so-called "practical" work. It's like putting the cart before the horse, when the cart does not even have wheels.

But unfortunately, I know from many years of involvement, that I'm almost alone in this perspective, and have been often criticized for not engaging in this erroneous lab work which demonstrably leads nowhere. While I'm being accused of wasting my time reading and studying very old texts, I see no results in those who forsake this study in order to join the trendy lab groups or who follow some nonsensical "insight" that they may have that has no connection to what the ancients taught. I keep asking myself, "who is really wasting their time?" in terms of actually getting any closer to producing the Stone.

Hellin Hermetist
08-07-2017, 07:13 PM
I already gave you a list of all the treatises you should read. Start there. Many more texts are available once you get done reading.

So, according to you, all those English translations we can find in the internet for free (a myriad of texts as you mentioned) are genuine alchemical treatises written by real adepts - possessors of the Stone.


R.A.M.S. would be the next place I would recommend after you finish the myriad of texts freely available online. When you finish reading the R.A.M.S. Collection and every text available online reach out to me and I will provide you with more texts not readily accessible, but by then you should have a firm grip on our Art and already have a sound foundation to stand upon.

Ok. At RAMS at least you shall find a myriad of different ways and practices to create the Stone. From plant stones of wine and other vegetable substances of Isaac Hollandus, to the Stone which use as essential solvent nitric acid combined with corrosive sublimate of Baron Russenstein-Lambspring manuscript, and form there to Philalethes-Starkey stone which use as essential solvent metallic mercury animated with starry martian regulus of antimony, path described with the greatest detail from the anonymous author of Coelum Philosophorum. Anyone then who has studied the works of that collection, can clearly see that the authors of the treatises contained there do not agree one with the other (dont even think about tell me that Hollandus in his Vegetable Opera, Baron Rusenstein or the author of Coelum Philosophorum use allegorical speech). As you believe that there is one true path, one true process and one true stone, and at the same time you propose to someone else to study RAMS collection, in which, as I showed, he will find many differnet paths, processes and stones described, the fallacy in your analysis becomes quite clear to everyone.

Axismundi000
08-07-2017, 07:56 PM
The only way that someone can positively contribute by posting practical work, is if that work actually leads to the production of the Stone. Anything else is mostly a waste of time and effort. Thus, when one actually begins to post practical information directly related to real alchemy, it should be understood that that person has fully comprehended what the alchemists wrote, and is prepared to offer insights or observations that could help others.

I personally doubt that there are more than a small handful of people in the world today (if any) who have actually come that close. The rest of the practical work that has been offered by modern "alchemists" is only work that has become a trendy concept of what so many others before them have thought to be the truth, but which actually never led anywhere (for example the antimony path). By appearing to practice these trendy and well-tried approaches, and showing their colorful photos of the lab work, they begin to be admired by their peers, and become part of their social circles. This gathering and condoning of these concepts only encourages others to join in expanding these concepts even further. Soon a whole new approach to alchemy is borne that has gone far astray of the original teachings.

Thus, in my opinion, at this stage in my own study, I'm FAR more interested in the theoretical and philosophical discussions of how Nature works, than in any number of lab pictures from the so-called "practical" work. It's like putting the cart before the horse, when the cart does not even have wheels.

But unfortunately, I know from many years of involvement, that I'm almost alone in this perspective, and have been often criticized for not engaging in this erroneous lab work which demonstrably leads nowhere. While I'm being accused of wasting my time reading and studying very old texts, I see no results in those who forsake this study in order to join the trendy lab groups or who follow some nonsensical "insight" that they may have that has no connection to what the ancients taught. I keep asking myself, "who is really wasting their time?" in terms of actually getting any closer to producing the Stone.

Thank you for your opinion which is perfectly understandable with so little actual practical material posted in this section of the forum.

elixirmixer
08-07-2017, 09:42 PM
Well, it seems we've got a lot of interest in the stone and practical works at this time.

GREAT!

I am going to take the bait here, because it certainly couldn't hurt to go through and read all my texts from start to finish all from scratch, as has been suggested.
EDIT: The last time I took this advice, I found the key to SM

Sobering up is definitly on the cards right now, due to:

My friend offering me a reward of honor if I quit with him
Andro said that marajiwana completly de-rails the human efforts to astral project
Franz Bardon's "Initiation into hermetics" is on its way in paperback form so that I can study it 'closer'
And now the guy with the crazy illuminati flower avatar has also said he will help more if i pull my finger out, so HERE GOES.

TODAY! will be my first sober day, no ciggies, no cones, no beers. period.

Honestly my vices rest in the realm of my lack of faith but with all the things happening lately, I feel closer than ever and very motivated.

-----------------------------------------------------

In regards to the issues of no practical in the practical, its just soooo true, and im one of the worst coulprets for saying im going to post my work and then never getting around to actually documenting it.

However, thats all going to change too. Ive got a lot of spagyrics that have to come out of incubation and I WILL
photograph all the action.

-----------------------------------------------------

Im pretty proud of some of my threads, but I'm especiially glad that THIS thread hit the 10,000 views :cool:

Awani
08-07-2017, 09:54 PM
...but I'm especiially glad that THIS thread hit the 10,000 views...

Oh, that's just me refreshing my browser.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

:p

Schmuldvich
08-07-2017, 10:50 PM
Inspiring post, Illen!


Proper labwork is impossible without first understanding what the alchemists actually meant when they wrote what they did. That indeed DOES require endless reading AND comprehension. There are numerous alchemists who stress the importance of reading over and over and over again.

There's even a famous Latin expression that they often like to quote: "Lege, lege, relege, labora et invenies" ("Read, read, read again and you shall find").

The biggest myth that modern alchemists have spread is that one can read a handful of books and then begin the labwork immediately, by following the literal directions and never studying again.

The labwork is simple women's or children's work. It is used to prepare the matter only. Nature does the rest.

Without understanding how Nature does its work, the labwork is quite useless.


The only way that someone can positively contribute by posting practical work, is if that work actually leads to the production of the Stone.

When one actually begins to post practical information directly related to real alchemy, it should be understood that that person has fully comprehended what the alchemists wrote, and is prepared to offer insights or observations that could help others.

At this stage in my own study, I'm FAR more interested in the theoretical and philosophical discussions of how Nature works...But unfortunately, I know from many years of involvement, that I'm almost alone in this perspective, and have been often criticized for not engaging in this erroneous lab work which demonstrably leads nowhere. While I'm being accused of wasting my time reading and studying very old texts, I see no results in those who forsake this study in order to join the trendy lab groups or who follow some nonsensical "insight" that they may have that has no connection to what the ancients taught. I keep asking myself, "who is really wasting their time?"


So, according to you, all those English translations we can find in the internet for free (a myriad of texts as you mentioned) are genuine alchemical treatises written by real adepts - possessors of the Stone. At RAMS at least you shall find a myriad of different ways and practices to create the Stone. You believe that there is one true path, one true process, and one true stone, and at the same time you propose to someone else to study RAMS collection, in which, as I showed, he will find many differnet paths, processes and stones described, the fallacy in your analysis becomes quite clear to everyone.
Hellin Hermetist,

These texts were not written to common people like you or I...please understand that they were written to Initiates, or as called by the old Authors, Sons of the Art. "Secret Teachings Of All Ages" describes this way of teaching as an acroamatic cipher.



The acroamatic cipher. The religious and philosophical writings of all nations abound with acroamatic cryptograms, that is, parables and allegories. The acroamatic is unique in that the document containing it may be translated or reprinted without affecting the cryptogram. Parables and allegories have been used since remote antiquity to present moral truths in an attractive and understandable manner. The acroamatic cryptogram is a pictorial cipher drawn in words and its symbolism must be so interpreted. The Old and New Testaments of the Jews, the writings of Plato and Aristotle, Homer's Odyssey and Iliad, Virgil's Ăneid, The Metamorphosis of Apuleius, and Ăsop's Fables are outstanding examples of acroamatic cryptography in which are concealed the deepest and most sublime truths of ancient mystical philosophy.

The acroamatic cipher is the most subtle of all, for the parable or allegory is susceptible of several interpretations. Bible students for centuries have been confronted by this difficultly. They are satisfied with the moral interpretation of the parable and forget that each parable and allegory is capable of seven interpretations, of which the seventh--the highest--is complete and all-inclusive, whereas the other six (and lesser) interpretations are fragmentary, revealing but part of the mystery. The creation myths of the world are acroamatic cryptograms, and the deities of the various pantheons are only cryptic characters which, if properly understood, become the constituents of a divine alphabet. The initiated few comprehend the true nature of this alphabet, but the uninitiated many worship the letters of it as gods.

Krisztian made a couple of excellent posts detailing this fact, that there is a way or understanding needed to properly comprehend these texts. On the surface, words from the myriad of books may appear to be strikingly different from each other, but mostly the spirit of the Work is in tact and parallels each other to the most minute degree.

I never said that the myriad of texts were written by real Adepts, you are putting words in my mouth; some are and some aren't. Many of these texts were written by Seekers, or Philosophers as they liked to call themselves, who knew more than the ordinary populace, and way more about Alchemy than most people on this message board.

We can look back on Krisztian's words, who is an Initiate, make effort to distill meaning, and further our understanding of Alchemy on how to read Alchemical texts through his words.


1. First warning:

http://i.imgur.com/81UhZJM.jpg

2. Key words (i.e., ardent vive, mercury, etc.) are often repeated throughout an entire treaty and if one pays close attention as a whole, the author often reveals meaning if read from cover to cover.

Philalethes even admits that when his entire works are taken into consideration, where one book leaves out, another fills in and discloses. I came to that conclusion.

3. Key alchemical concept (viz., in 12th, 15th and 16th Century) usually pertain to "sulphur and mercury". Substitute in words that fit either of these two, throughout the treaty. Before one knows it, pattern emerges.

4. Scattered throughout entire text, hints are dropped. It's never in linear explanation the process is revealed. Goes back and forth. Philalethes in particular most definitely speaks of the most significant in twisty language.

5. Each path has definite pattern to it. Recipes describe identical methods and processes, transferable from one author to the next. Artephius, Philalethes, Roger Bacon, Hermes, Peterny, speaks almost of identical process, minus that they use somewhat different terms.

6. Irrefutable evidence and help comes by parallel process of lab-work. Once certain lab-stages are achieved, it becomes obvious that the authors of those centuries didn't fairytale what they wrote. It was practical, alchemical processes they attempted to explain, of course, in their native, cultural tongue, and in their manner of thinking [of that century].

7. Alchemy is simple [therefore profound!] Anything complicated is projection from our minds onto the texts. Think simple. Think processes naturally seen in Nature.

There're two key points here from Philalethes.

Please read the excerpt taken from Transmutations of Metals.

http://i.imgur.com/e794WyH.png

One pertains to the importance of lab-work, the other discusses something more than just doing as chemistry - meditative practice. As I said before, the 'grace of God' doesn't just happen, one needs to enter a more profound mental state. Which is why alchemy is more than just traditional chemistry.

A way to also collect the proper procedure within the Old Master's writings, is to revert to sentence picking. They don't write linear, rather, they drop hints.

Read text, make note everytime they say: "The whole secret is . . . . ". They often drop such statements about several different aspects of the work. If you collect them all, then you'll see an entire operation unfolding before your eyes.

Chasm reminds us, using de Lubciz's words, that these texts are written with veiled tongue and not written openly to the masses like many believe.



Summary of Principles, by Rene Schwaller de Lubcicz.
The sages have always endeavored to hand down to posterity the revelation of the spirit disguised in the form of the words and parables of the sacred texts.
These texts are syntheses of Knowledge whose basis is always the same, though adapted to the times and to the state of consciousness of a people or peoples.
The means adopted for transmitting this teaching are manifold, comprising legends, tales, and customs, as well as monuments, statues, and temples. Thus, up to the end of the Middle Ages, the Christian tradition assigned specific attributes to a given Saint, sculpted or painted, and these attributes are a veritable scripture revealing what cannot be said in plain words. Temples—whether Hindu, Egyptian, Jewish, Christian, or Moslem—are always conceived according to a canon that respects certain elements which explain the teaching.
In Egypt, in India, as well as later, in the Gothic period of Christian cathedrals, the temple was a book revealing an "esoteric" teaching.
Esotericism should not be understood as a rebus or a secret writing, but rather as the "spirit of the letter"—that is to say. that which cannot be transcribed clearly, not because there is any desire to conceal it, but because of the "cerebral" intellect's inaptitude for comprehending it.
The character of the means of transcription of this esotericism should therefore be such that it addresses the faculties of the reader; the latter will read and understand it depending on his own
faculties, whether normal or superior (intuition, spatial vision). Each will see in the parable or in the architecture of the true temple, what he can see: utility, aesthetics, myth and legend, philosophical principle, or vision of material and spiritual genesis.
In the case of a pharaonic temple, one must always try to determine, first of all, what theme was emphasized. The dedication gives only an initial, general indication.
It appears quite distinctly that the secret pharaonic teaching was based on the vital functions for which the organs are the living symbols, in the sense explained previously. There can no longer be any doubt of the Ancients' knowledge with regard to what might be called "spiritual metabolism." from the assimilation of nourishment to the liberation of the Energy—or Spirit—manifested in the intellectual faculties and the powers of Consciousness.

...We must first learn how to read Alchemical texts before we start accusing others of psychological incompetency.

elixirmixer
08-07-2017, 11:48 PM
Yeah I get the fact that without being Fully initiated, I've got no hope of completely comprehending these alchemical scriptures. And that's whats left me no choice but to try my best to comprehend the entire situation from scratch, by-pass the crazy schizophrenic place ill find myself in if I fall too far down the rabbit hole and cant get out, and for now I'm just trying some practical things that will test my current theories.

Do you believe that Our Mercury and the Prima Materia are sourced from different places or do you see them as one and the same?

Illen A. Cluf
08-08-2017, 12:22 AM
Yeah I get the fact that without being Fully initiated, I've got no hope of completely comprehending these alchemical scriptures. And that's whats left me no choice but to try my best to comprehend the entire situation from scratch, by-pass the crazy schizophrenic place ill find myself in if I fall too far down the rabbit hole and cant get out, and for now I'm just trying some practical things that will test my current theories.

Do you believe that Our Mercury and the Prima Materia are sourced from different places or do you see them as one and the same?

This is a very fundamental question which is answered in many texts. Rather than provide you with useless hints as many would do, I feel generous today and will provide you with a source for a very direct answer. Read: "A Dialogue Between Mercury, an Alcymist and Nature" in Michael Sendivogius' "Novum Lumen Chymicum". Here is a link: https://books.google.ca/books?id=lkliAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=our+mercury+first+matter&source=bl&ots=UcR2ADDnJr&sig=jpCm88bMm60PiSAeIsNorjxx8S0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7oM_9q8bVAhUIzoMKHQ7dBwgQ6AEINzAD#v=on epage&q=our%20mercury%20first%20matter&f=false It starts at page 93. You will have a definitive answer.

Schmuldvich
08-08-2017, 01:40 AM
Yeah I get the fact that without being Fully initiated, I've got no hope of completely comprehending these alchemical scriptures.

Do you believe that Our Mercury and the Prima Materia are sourced from different places or do you see them as one and the same?
Elixirmixer, that is not at all what I was alluding to! Not at all!!! You do have hope of completely comprehending Alchemical texts if you simply take the time to read them all, it just takes time to see the parallels!

When you take time out of your life to "ORA, LEGE, LEGE, LEGE, RELEGE, LABORA ET INVENIES" ("Pray, Read, Read, Read, Read Again and You Shall Find") the words of the Masters become unobfuscated and the hidden meaning of the writings become clearer than ever!

Then do you know what to do...? You go back and read the same texts all over again! But this time with Open eyes which truly see and a mind that legitimately Understands. It is an incredible feeling and so encouraging to be able to read all this seemingly garble without obscurity. A new found fervor will be built up inside of you and your thoughts will rise to new heights, no doubt!


What conclusion did you come to regarding our Mercury and prima materia after reading Sendivogius' dialogue?

JDP
08-08-2017, 03:33 AM
Proper labwork is impossible without first understanding what the alchemists actually meant when they wrote what they did. That indeed DOES require endless reading and comprehension. There are numerous alchemists who stress the importance of reading over and over and over again. There's even a famous Latin expression that they often like to quote: "Lege, lege, relege, labora et invenies" ("Read, read, read again and you shall find").

You forgot a very important part of that Latin saying: "Read, read, read again, WORK ("labora") and you shall find." This is very important because the actual experimental work is just as necessary as gathering information from the texts. There is no way of knowing whether you are on the right track without putting your conclusions to the test.


The biggest myth that modern alchemists have spread is that one can read a handful of books and then begin the labwork immediately, by following the literal directions and never studying again. These people hail labworkers as heroes and look down on those who spend the effort to do exactly as the ancients have instructed - read! Don't just read the practical parts of the texts, but deeply study the theoretical parts as well.

The problem with this approach is that the theoretical parts can be as misleading, or even more so, as the alleged "practical" parts.


The labwork is simple women's or children's work. It is used to prepare the matter only. Nature does the rest. Without understanding how Nature does its work, the labwork is quite useless. Understanding how Nature works requires a very deep philosophical understanding. That is why the ancient alchemists were called "Philosophers" rather than Practioners.

There's many problems with this view. The alchemists fancied themselves "philosophers", but in reality they were "practioners" first & foremost. The way they learned how to make the Stone was really through trial & error and careful reading of the works of those who preceded them. Their theories and speculations about nature and matter would NEVER lead them to this goal, no matter what they like to claim, simply because nature in fact DOES NOT MAKE ANYTHING REMOTELY LIKE THE STONE. So speculating about what nature supposedly does inside "the bowels of the earth" would never get you anywhere. But even if you thought that nature somehow can teach you something regarding this subject, you would have to have access to the inside of those deep "bowels of the earth" to see what exactly is going on down there, but alas, not even us today, with all our more complex machines, have reached that far below inside the earth's "bowels", so let alone the alchemists! Lucas Rodargirus, for example, was well aware of this, yet he came up with the excuse of "Divine Revelation" to try to "explain" how the alchemists can possibly know such things that they actually have never seen since no one has been "down there":

"But where did men learn to know, I ask you, this first matter of metals? What is it? How is it? Did they use magical arts and incantations? Have they imitated the nature of moles by sneaking through subterranean paths, in order to learn the nature of it, by what artifice it creates and produces metals? Not at all! By doing so, men would in fact return (as far as they could come back) more blind than the moles themselves. Chymical art teaches us, therefore, to reduce the metallic bodies in this matter, in which they themselves, by the work of nature, were originally formed in the bowels of the earth. If the father of nature, excellent and very great God, had not instilled so great a secret into the minds of philosophers, no mortal would have succeeded in such chymiological effects, which are very admirable and astonishing effects!" (The Fish of the Lower Zodiac, or the Philosophical Solution, chapter 3)

So Rodargirus is here admitting that no one (including he himself) has been "down there" inside the "bowels" of the earth to actually see what is going on, and yet he wants to make us believe that the reason why the alchemists still are able to know about such things as how metals are supposedly "generated" inside the earth is because an alleged "God" (whom Rodargirus had also never seen, he just assumed that "He" exists) has instilled this knowledge into their minds. If Rodargirus was still around, my answer to his naive "argument" would be very simple: Ignotum per ignotius! (do not try to "explain the unknown by the even more unknown!")

The cold, hard fact that many of these old alchemists did not want to admit, since it didn't sound "pious" or grandiloquent enough to their minds, is that they all discovered it the same way: trial & error. There is NO OTHER WAY. Not by "philosophizing" about things that supposedly go on deep underground but that no one has really seen, and not by praying to some hypothetical "God" that no one has seen or has any proof of "His" existence either. I assure you that if you take either route, or both, even if you could live 1000 years you will still never discover anything regarding alchemy. "Nature" can't teach you what she herself does NOT know how to make (the Stone is found NOWHERE already made in nature), and no "God" is going to miraculously let you know any "formulas" for preparing anything either, even if we assume that such a being exists. I think that "God" would have much better things to do than have to capriciously go around granting or not granting what people fancy or desire. If I was "God", I would find it most logical and practical to simply adopt a "if you really want it, work for it yourself, exercise your free will & ingenuity, don't expect me to get things for you!" policy. Otherwise what would be the point of "creating" humans in the first place? So that I have to baby-sit and spoon-feed them for eternity??? No, I made them with their own intelligence, their own minds, their own eyes, their own hands, etc. so that they can fend for themselves. Let them work and investigate things on their own!


The only way that someone can positively contribute by posting practical work, is if that work actually leads to the production of the Stone. Anything else is mostly a waste of time and effort. Thus, when one actually begins to post practical information directly related to real alchemy, it should be understood that that person has fully comprehended what the alchemists wrote, and is prepared to offer insights or observations that could help others.

Which is very unlikely to happen, since anyone who is on the right track will not share such information with everyone else in a totally clear manner so that anyone can achieve it as well, but without having had to go through the myriad of troubles and efforts that he went through to finally gain this knowledge. Personal security, gain & advantage are also just too strong a part of human nature. Self-preservation and self-advantage always kick in. "Killing the Goose that Lays the Golden Eggs" (which is what would happen if everyone knew how to make the Stone) is a big NO-NO. No one in his right mind wants to do it. You want that "goose" to "live" for as long as possible, so that you can gather its "golden eggs" and get handsomely rewarded for all the troubles you went through to acquire the said "goose".


I personally doubt that there are more than a small handful of people in the world today (if any) who have actually come that close. The rest of the practical work that has been offered by modern "alchemists" is only work that has become a trendy concept of what so many others before them have thought to be the truth, but which actually never led anywhere (for example the antimony path). By appearing to practice these trendy and well-tried approaches, and showing their colorful photos of the lab work, they begin to be admired by their peers, and become part of their social circles. This gathering and condoning of these concepts only encourages others to join in expanding these concepts even further. Soon a whole new approach to alchemy is borne that has gone far astray of the original teachings.

This is true, but those people are only fooling themselves and, unfortunately, those unwary enough who listen to them and accept their SPECULATIONS/THEORIES as "facts". However, sooner or later empirical experience will let these deluded people realize that their cherished ideas were mistaken, when they actually try the prescribed methods and see for themselves that no substance that can transmute many times its own weight of other metals into silver and gold is produced.


Thus, in my opinion, at this stage in my own study, I'm FAR more interested in the theoretical and philosophical discussions of how Nature works, than in any number of lab pictures from the so-called "practical" work. It's like putting the cart before the horse, when the cart does not even have wheels.

But unfortunately, I know from many years of involvement, that I'm almost alone in this perspective, and have been often criticized for not engaging in this erroneous lab work which demonstrably leads nowhere. While I'm being accused of wasting my time reading and studying very old texts, I see no results in those who forsake this study in order to join the trendy lab groups or who follow some nonsensical "insight" that they may have that has no connection to what the ancients taught. I keep asking myself, "who is really wasting their time?" in terms of actually getting any closer to producing the Stone.

Unfortunately, such an approach will also not get anyone anywhere. The only way you will ever know if your theories/ideas/speculations regarding what the alchemists were talking about are correct or mistaken is to TEST them, and for that you NEED to perform experiments, otherwise you will never be able to determine if your ideas/theories/speculations were on the right track. I have found it EXTREMELY USEFUL to gain a lot of empirical experience while investigating the old texts. DO NOT BE AFRAID OF MULTITUDE OF FAILURES. Believe it or not, as bothersome and frustrating as failures can be, you CAN ALWAYS LEARN SOMETHING FROM THEM. There just is no other way to separate right from wrong in this subject than with trial & error. He who does not experiment will never find out anything certain in this "art".

elixirmixer
08-08-2017, 03:44 AM
Ah, so that's the answer... Thank you very much Illen A Cluff.

Much appreciated.

which brings me back to the question: what are you talking about Schivichy?

If then it is just one matter, then I think I understand. So please correct me if I'm wrong.

Spiritus Mundi, will, upon circulation within the correct parameters, create its own sulfur.

It doesn't necessarily need to be developed that far however, in order to complete our work, nevertheless, if we wish for the red stone in all its purity, then we mature SM through correct circulation.

Then, even though SM is a body and a spirit, we nevertheless, fix it further still with Sol, and not our vulgar gold, but IMO this pure pulvis solaris.

Then upon being embodied into life, it now has to die, its putrefaction, the work begins...

Its brightness wanes, it becomes black, it floats, smokes, and falls, bubbling up the ugly black skin in the picture that you showed us.

This, through a gentle regime 'unlocks' said palace and takes us to the white places....

????

Illen A. Cluf
08-08-2017, 01:02 PM
Unfortunately, such an approach will also not get anyone anywhere. The only way you will ever know if your theories/ideas/speculations regarding what the alchemists were talking about are correct or mistaken is to TEST them, and for that you NEED to perform experiments, otherwise you will never be able to determine if your ideas/theories/speculations were on the right track. I have found it EXTREMELY USEFUL to gain a lot of empirical experience while investigating the old texts. DO NOT BE AFRAID OF MULTITUDE OF FAILURES. Believe it or not, as bothersome and frustrating as failures can be, you CAN ALWAYS LEARN SOMETHING FROM THEM. There just is no other way to separate right from wrong in this subject than with trial & error. He who does not experiment will never find out anything certain in this "art".

But you missed my point all along. Of course the practical work is vitally important and the ONLY way to test the theories. But my point all along is that the practical work to test the theories should not commence until a full understanding and comprehension of what the philosophers wrote has been achieved. Too many people read 2 or 3 texts and jump right into the lab work, mostly based on the 'trend' of what others are doing. For example, look at the number of people following the so-called "antimony way", using actual antimony. If they had continued to study, read, re-read and comprehend, they would have realized that the philosophers only used the word "antimony" and many other such words, as symbolic designations for the real work. In many cases, the many descriptive 'material' names they used only represented different stages or colors of the same initial matter as it went through the process. Once they start to engage in this lab work, they rarely turn back to studying the texts, but become obsessed with the lab work and assume that they must have missed a tiny detail. So they ill spend many years or even all their life adjusting the same process, looking for that one small detail that they might have missed.

So my suggestion is to read, read and re-read, until the philosophical understanding begins to make sense, before fully engaging in the lab work. I do find the theoretical/philosophical sections to be far more instructive and understandable than the practical sections, and it is these sections which have helped me understand the practical sections better. I do not want to waste my life following trendy lab approaches, when the theoretical sections have shown me that these approaches are not what the philosophers were writing about. Of course, there may be various experiments that one might conduct along the way to test out some of the observations related to the theories. But I don't think these lab tests should become the entire pursuit and focus of the study.

It was actually the theoretical/philosophical sections of the treatises, which describe how Nature works and how they believed metals grew in the earth that gave me my biggest break-throughs in the understanding of their secret language. It is not that their understanding of Nature was necessarily correct (in terms of what we know today), because they did not have the science we have today, but it shows how they actually came up with these theories, based on their very real observations. Thus you first have to get totally into their mindset, think just like they did back then, and relate that back to the observations they made. Too many are not able to do this, since they continue to think as we do today. This is part of the "meditative" or creative process. You really have to remove as much modern bias as possible. or you will never be able to comprehend what they were saying. Once you have their viewpoint, the rest begins to get easier and easier. You begin to see why they described certain parts of the process with the terms that they used. Almost none of these terms are to be taken literally. This is the very part that confuses so many lab workers. They pick and select which terms are literal and which are figurative, when almost ALL the terms are figurative. The main key to the terms that they used was to describe the color changes as the same matter underwent changes.

So, I was not saying that the lab work was unimportant. In fact, it is essential. What I'm saying is that the main lab work should not even be attempted until one has understood the basics of the language of the philosophers. This language is not easy to discover, and requires years of reading, reading and re-reading, as well as an imaginative ability to be able to remove all modern bias and think as they did. A good background in symbolic languages (such as the Kabbalah) is also very helpful.

Hellin Hermetist
08-08-2017, 01:07 PM
Hellin Hermetist,

These texts were not written to common people like you or I...please understand that they were written to Initiates, or as called by the old Authors, Sons of the Art. "Secret Teachings Of All Ages" describes this way of teaching as an acroamatic cipher.

Not the ones I made reference to, which are included in RAMS collection. I challenge you to prove me that works like the Coelum Philosophorum, or Baron Rusestein's manuscripts, or the works of Tugel, or the Golden Chain of Homer, even the Vegetable Work of Isaac Hollandus or Basil Valentine Triumphal Chariot or Manuals, are written using decknames and cryptic terms. Only please dont post whole sentences from the works of Flamel or Raymond Lulle or Alexander Sethon to prove your thesis. I mentioned certain works and I wait certain answers.



The acroamatic cipher.[/FONT][/B] The religious and philosophical writings of all nations abound with acroamatic cryptograms, that is, parables and allegories. The acroamatic is unique in that the document containing it may be translated or reprinted without affecting the cryptogram. Parables and allegories have been used since remote antiquity to present moral truths in an attractive and understandable manner. The acroamatic cryptogram is a pictorial cipher drawn in words and its symbolism must be so interpreted. The Old and New Testaments of the Jews, the writings of Plato and Aristotle, Homer's Odyssey and Iliad, Virgil's Ăneid, The Metamorphosis of Apuleius, and Ăsop's Fables are outstanding examples of acroamatic cryptography in which are concealed the deepest and most sublime truths of ancient mystical philosophy.

Nothing to do with the treatises I made reference to.



There're two key points here from Philalethes.
Please read the excerpt taken from Transmutations of Metals.

Philalethes was an invention of the iatrochemist George Starkey, in an attempt to impress other ppl and earn some money by publishing the works of a supposed mysterious adept. Good luck to your friend Kristzian if he is trying to learn anything form these treatises.



I never said that the myriad of texts were written by real Adepts, you are putting words in my mouth; some are and some aren't.

But earlier you advised another member of that forum to study every alchemical work which he can find in sites like rexresearch.com. If some of those works werent written by real adepts, as you now say, why didnt you show him which works are good and genuine productions and which ones were written by charlatans? I believe that this little thing would have helped me a lot.



Many of these texts were written by Seekers, or Philosophers as they liked to call themselves, who knew more than the ordinary populace, and way more about Alchemy than most people on this message board.

So all the old works were written by accomplished or almost accomplished adepts. Seems that charlatans didnt exist in that old era. Unfortunately for you, some of the old authors didnt accept your opinion. Valois, a 16th century author, says that he and his companion had studied a myriad of works and worked according to their instructions without any good results, for a period longer than 20 years. At last they studied patiently the good works, which are Lulle's Testament and Codicille, the Great Rosary and the one named Code de tout Verite (Turba Philosophorum), and finally they were able to produce the Stone. Trevisan go even further. He says that over 50 years he studied, restudied and followed the instructions of the myriad works he was able to get on his possesion, and lost all his years and his family's fortune, without any good result. At last, he isolated his self from the world and studied patiently the works of Raymond Lulle for a period of seven years, and after that period he had at last understood what was the thing he was searching for and was able to accomplish his task. So, for some of the older authors, most of the alchemical authors werent seekers or philosophers, as you believe, but charlatans and ignorant men, with the sole exception of Raymond Lulle and two or three other authors.

Andro
08-08-2017, 01:37 PM
I second the general position of Hellin Hermetist. The world and especially people, haven't really changed that much over the centuries. It's SO easy to write cryptically.

IMO, there are only a handful of really good books that should be studied deeply, over and over, ALWAYS accompanied by some sort of lab work to test/prove one's deductions and theories. There is a lot of decent complementary material, but start with a good and trustworthy foundation before reading and getting confused by tens of thousands of pages.

And I have no clue why people get so hung on Philalethes/Starkey. I read some of Starkey's lab notes, he also wrote under the pseudonym of Philalethes, and was not a genuine adept. I would personally not waste my time with his stuff. And if Kristzian is such a big shot initiate and if the super-knowledgeable Chasm really knows so much, maybe it would be a better idea to get into their good graces and see what comes out of it. You probably quoted K from another forum, because when he used to post here, he not only wrote in an extremely condescending manner, but he also made a real art-form out of writing many words and saying nothing at all - except a few quasi-philosophical platitudes here and there. Yet, I know how some people just LOVE this sort of thing, so - to each their own.

Unless you have been directly shown (by someone) a true and verified accomplishment of the Great Work (preferably in person, face to face), or at least a verified accomplishment/completion of ONE of the major stages/rotations (such as the isolation/condensation/testing of the Universal Spirit, the obtainment of the Ph. Mercury + testing, the birth(s) of the Ph. Sulfur, etc...) - I would say: Trust No One!

JDP
08-08-2017, 06:44 PM
But you missed my point all along. Of course the practical work is vitally important and the ONLY way to test the theories. But my point all along is that the practical work to test the theories should not commence until a full understanding and comprehension of what the philosophers wrote has been achieved. Too many people read 2 or 3 texts and jump right into the lab work, mostly based on the 'trend' of what others are doing. For example, look at the number of people following the so-called "antimony way", using actual antimony. If they had continued to study, read, re-read and comprehend, they would have realized that the philosophers only used the word "antimony" and many other such words, as symbolic designations for the real work. In many cases, the many descriptive 'material' names they used only represented different stages or colors of the same initial matter as it went through the process. Once they start to engage in this lab work, they rarely turn back to studying the texts, but become obsessed with the lab work and assume that they must have missed a tiny detail. So they ill spend many years or even all their life adjusting the same process, looking for that one small detail that they might have missed.

So my suggestion is to read, read and re-read, until the philosophical understanding begins to make sense, before fully engaging in the lab work. I do find the theoretical/philosophical sections to be far more instructive and understandable than the practical sections, and it is these sections which have helped me understand the practical sections better. I do not want to waste my life following trendy lab approaches, when the theoretical sections have shown me that these approaches are not what the philosophers were writing about. Of course, there may be various experiments that one might conduct along the way to test out some of the observations related to the theories. But I don't think these lab tests should become the entire pursuit and focus of the study.

It was actually the theoretical/philosophical sections of the treatises, which describe how Nature works and how they believed metals grew in the earth that gave me my biggest break-throughs in the understanding of their secret language. It is not that their understanding of Nature was necessarily correct (in terms of what we know today), because they did not have the science we have today, but it shows how they actually came up with these theories, based on their very real observations. Thus you first have to get totally into their mindset, think just like they did back then, and relate that back to the observations they made. Too many are not able to do this, since they continue to think as we do today. This is part of the "meditative" or creative process. You really have to remove as much modern bias as possible. or you will never be able to comprehend what they were saying. Once you have their viewpoint, the rest begins to get easier and easier. You begin to see why they described certain parts of the process with the terms that they used. Almost none of these terms are to be taken literally. This is the very part that confuses so many lab workers. They pick and select which terms are literal and which are figurative, when almost ALL the terms are figurative. The main key to the terms that they used was to describe the color changes as the same matter underwent changes.

So, I was not saying that the lab work was unimportant. In fact, it is essential. What I'm saying is that the main lab work should not even be attempted until one has understood the basics of the language of the philosophers. This language is not easy to discover, and requires years of reading, reading and re-reading, as well as an imaginative ability to be able to remove all modern bias and think as they did. A good background in symbolic languages (such as the Kabbalah) is also very helpful.

We have discussed this topic several times, both publicly and privately, and I still cannot follow your logic here. If you are well aware that their theories/speculations about how nature supposedly operated within the earth to generate metals are full of unproven assumptions on their part, then you should also be aware of how UNCERTAIN the whole theoretical framework is. Then how can anyone really have much confidence in that their ruminations can really lead anyone anywhere? I don't believe in alchemy and transmutation because of these theoretical musings, which I am well aware have NEVER led anyone anywhere. How can I be so sure? Well, because such speculative "philosophizing" has been plastered over and over, again and again, through thousands of pages of alchemical literature, and that certainly did not help any of the countless legions of seekers one bit to get closer to the goal. No matter how clearly spelled out, speculations remain speculations, not "facts". To give you a more modern analogy: imagine that your goal was to try to prepare ferric chloride. Imagine that in order to try to figure out how to prepare this substance you did not pay attention to HONEST DESCRIPTIONS OF THE ACTUAL PROCEDURES how to prepare it, but to the theories/speculations of chemists regarding "electron shells" and "valence". I can assure you that you will NEVER arrive at the desired goal by doing such a thing. No amount of pondering over how these alleged tiny particles capriciously "bond" with those of other "atoms" will allow you to get a clear understanding of how that iron salt is actually prepared. That's because there is a vast difference between SPECULATION/THEORY and EMPIRICAL FACTS. If you want to learn how to prepare that substance you will have to read a DESCRIPTIVE chemical text. Similarly, the endless theoretical conjectures about "sulphurs" and "mercuries" and the supposed "generation" of metals will never get you anywhere, just like it did not help anyone in the last 2000+ years get any closer to the goal. This is not where the potential value of alchemical texts resides. The actual value lies in its DESCRIPTIVE passages, just like in ordinary chemistry (with the obvious difference that ordinary chemistry describes its procedures IN AS CLEAR AND AS FULL A FASHION AS POSSIBLE, so as to not leave the person seeking such instructions without knowing any important part of the process, while alchemy NEVER DOES THAT, BUT ONLY PROVIDES PARTIAL DESCRIPTIONS, AND USUALLY IN A "SCATTERED" MANNER, AND ALSO USUALLY ACCOMPANIED BY "DECKNAMEN", ALLEGORIES, SIMILES, RIDDLES, etc.) In order to illustrate my point in a clearer manner, allow me to put two brief examples of VERY DIFFERENT PASSAGES:

http://www.rexresearch.com/alchemy4/ficino.htm

"Chapter 1.

Of the Generation of Metals in the Bowels of the Earth.

The opinion and determination of all who philosophize rightly is the same: that all metals are generated by the vapour of sulphur, and of argent vive. Because when the fat of the earth being heated, finds the substance of water somewhat globulous, it as well by its natural virtue, as by the rays of the celestial bodies and the endeavor of heaven, as according to the purity or impurity of each, consolidated it in the veins of the earth into those most beautiful bodies, gold, silver, copper, tin, iron, and lead."

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/rpvision.html

"A Toad full Ruddy I saw, did drink the juice of Grapes so fast,
Till over-charged with the broth, his Bowels all to brast:
And after that, from poyson'd Bulk he cast his Venom fell,
For Grief and Pain whereof his Members all began to swell;
With drops of Poysoned sweat approaching thus his secret Den,
His Cave with blasts of fumous Air he all bewhited then:
And from the which in space a Golden Humour did ensue,
Whose falling drops from high did stain the soyl with ruddy hue.
And when his Corps the force of vital breath began to lack,
This dying Toad became forthwith like Coal for colour Black:
Thus drowned in his proper veins of poysoned flood;
For term of Eighty days and Four he rotting stood
By Tryal then this Venom to expel I did desire;
For which I did commit his Carkass to a gentle Fire:
Which done, a Wonder to the sight, but more to be rehearst;
The Toad with Colours rare through every side was pierc'd;
And White appear'd when all the sundry hews were past:
Which after being tincted Ruddy, for evermore did last."

The difference between both passages is quite clear. The first one says absolutely NOTHING that can be considered useful in this quest. It is plainly nothing but speculation (or "philosophizing", as the author himself plainly puts it) about things that no one, including the author himself, had actually witnessed. The second passage, on the other hand, is quite plainly a semi-veiled DESCRIPTION OF SOME REACTIONS BETWEEN SOME SUBSTANCES HAPPENING INSIDE FLASKS, and therefore is based on ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. You might say that without knowing what the "toad", the "juice of grapes", etc. actually are you are also uncertain what substances should be used to achieve them. True, but THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT: your "job" as an aspiring alchemist is to try to find THE SUBSTANCES THAT WILL REACT IN SUCH A MANNER AS THE AUTHOR IS DESCRIBING. As difficult as this might be, since there are thousands of substances out there open to investigation, at least YOU HAVE A STARTING POINT TO GUIDE YOURSELF. Empirical experience is the ONLY THING IN THIS UNIVERSE THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THESE SUBSTANCES ARE THAT REACT IN THIS WAY AND SHOW YOU WHAT THE AUTHOR IS DESCRIBING. Without actual hands-on experience YOU ARE SIMPLY LOST AND WILL NEVER FIGURE OUT WHAT THESE GUYS WERE DESCRIBING IN SUCH SEMI-VEILED MANNERS. No amount "philosophizing" about how metals are supposedly "generated" inside the earth, which no one has ever seen, or praying to some "God" that also no one has ever seen or proven to actually exist will do the trick. ONLY EMPIRICAL EXPERIENCE CAN TEACH YOU RIGHT FROM WRONG. So without the required amount of empirical experience and familiarity with all manner of substances and their reactions, no amount of theoretical ruminations about what the alchemists were writing about will get you anywhere closer to the goal. YOU NEED THE HANDS-ON EXPERIENCE TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE ALCHEMISTS WERE TALKING ABOUT. And in order to gain such experience YOU NEED TO BE READY TO CONFRONT AND ACCEPT A MULTITUDE OF FAILURES FIRST. No one "hits the mark" in his first attempt at anything. If you are the kind of person who easily gives up by repeated failures, then the alchemists' "booby-trap" has worked. You have been defeated and effectively removed from the equation. The alchemists' goal of keeping "unworthy" seekers at bay has worked; they have won, and you have lost. Only those who keep persevering in the face of repeated failure and never give up and continue to investigate & observe all manner of reactions have a chance of finding the truth.

Illen A. Cluf
08-08-2017, 09:12 PM
We have discussed this topic several times, both publicly and privately, and I still cannot follow your logic here. If you are well aware that their theories/speculations about how nature supposedly operated within the earth to generate metals are full of unproven assumptions on their part, then you should also be aware of how UNCERTAIN the whole theoretical framework is. Then how can anyone really have much confidence in that their ruminations can really lead anyone anywhere? I don't believe in alchemy and transmutation because of these theoretical musings, which I am well aware have NEVER led anyone anywhere. How can I be so sure? Well, because such speculative "philosophizing" has been plastered over and over, again and again, through thousands of pages of alchemical literature, and that certainly did not help any of the countless legions of seekers one bit to get closer to the goal. No matter how clearly spelled out, speculations remain speculations, not "facts". To give you a more modern analogy: imagine that your goal was to try to prepare ferric chloride. Imagine that in order to try to figure out how to prepare this substance you did not pay attention to HONEST DESCRIPTIONS OF THE ACTUAL PROCEDURES how to prepare it, but to the theories/speculations of chemists regarding "electron shells" and "valence". I can assure you that you will NEVER arrive at the desired goal by doing such a thing. No amount of pondering over how these alleged tiny particles capriciously "bond" with those of other "atoms" will allow you to get a clear understanding of how that iron salt is actually prepared. That's because there is a vast difference between SPECULATION/THEORY and EMPIRICAL FACTS. If you want to learn how to prepare that substance you will have to read a DESCRIPTIVE chemical text. Similarly, the endless theoretical conjectures about "sulphurs" and "mercuries" and the supposed "generation" of metals will never get you anywhere, just like it did not help anyone in the last 2000+ years get any closer to the goal. This is not where the potential value of alchemical texts resides. The actual value lies in its DESCRIPTIVE passages, just like in ordinary chemistry (with the obvious difference that ordinary chemistry describes its procedures IN AS CLEAR AND AS FULL A FASHION AS POSSIBLE, so as to not leave the person seeking such instructions without knowing any important part of the process, while alchemy NEVER DOES THAT, BUT ONLY PROVIDES PARTIAL DESCRIPTIONS, AND USUALLY IN A "SCATTERED" MANNER, AND ALSO USUALLY ACCOMPANIED BY "DECKNAMEN", ALLEGORIES, SIMILES, RIDDLES, etc.) In order to illustrate my point in a clearer manner, allow me to put two brief examples of VERY DIFFERENT PASSAGES:

http://www.rexresearch.com/alchemy4/ficino.htm

"Chapter 1.

Of the Generation of Metals in the Bowels of the Earth.

The opinion and determination of all who philosophize rightly is the same: that all metals are generated by the vapour of sulphur, and of argent vive. Because when the fat of the earth being heated, finds the substance of water somewhat globulous, it as well by its natural virtue, as by the rays of the celestial bodies and the endeavor of heaven, as according to the purity or impurity of each, consolidated it in the veins of the earth into those most beautiful bodies, gold, silver, copper, tin, iron, and lead."

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/rpvision.html

"A Toad full Ruddy I saw, did drink the juice of Grapes so fast,
Till over-charged with the broth, his Bowels all to brast:
And after that, from poyson'd Bulk he cast his Venom fell,
For Grief and Pain whereof his Members all began to swell;
With drops of Poysoned sweat approaching thus his secret Den,
His Cave with blasts of fumous Air he all bewhited then:
And from the which in space a Golden Humour did ensue,
Whose falling drops from high did stain the soyl with ruddy hue.
And when his Corps the force of vital breath began to lack,
This dying Toad became forthwith like Coal for colour Black:
Thus drowned in his proper veins of poysoned flood;
For term of Eighty days and Four he rotting stood
By Tryal then this Venom to expel I did desire;
For which I did commit his Carkass to a gentle Fire:
Which done, a Wonder to the sight, but more to be rehearst;
The Toad with Colours rare through every side was pierc'd;
And White appear'd when all the sundry hews were past:
Which after being tincted Ruddy, for evermore did last."

The difference between both passages is quite clear. The first one says absolutely NOTHING that can be considered useful in this quest. It is plainly nothing but speculation (or "philosophizing", as the author himself plainly puts it) about things that no one, including the author himself, had actually witnessed. The second passage, on the other hand, is quite plainly a semi-veiled DESCRIPTION OF SOME REACTIONS BETWEEN SOME SUBSTANCES HAPPENING INSIDE FLASKS, and therefore is based on ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. You might say that without knowing what the "toad", the "juice of grapes", etc. actually are you are also uncertain what substances should be used to achieve them. True, but THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT: your "job" as an aspiring alchemist is to try to find THE SUBSTANCES THAT WILL REACT IN SUCH A MANNER AS THE AUTHOR IS DESCRIBING. As difficult as this might be, since there are thousands of substances out there open to investigation, at least YOU HAVE A STARTING POINT TO GUIDE YOURSELF. Empirical experience is the ONLY THING IN THIS UNIVERSE THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THESE SUBSTANCES ARE THAT REACT IN THIS WAY AND SHOW YOU WHAT THE AUTHOR IS DESCRIBING. Without actual hands-on experience YOU ARE SIMPLY LOST AND WILL NEVER FIGURE OUT WHAT THESE GUYS WERE DESCRIBING IN SUCH SEMI-VEILED MANNERS. No amount "philosophizing" about how metals are supposedly "generated" inside the earth, which no one has ever seen, or praying to some "God" that also no one has ever seen or proven to actually exist will do the trick. ONLY EMPIRICAL EXPERIENCE CAN TEACH YOU RIGHT FROM WRONG. So without the required amount of empirical experience and familiarity with all manner of substances and their reactions, no amount of theoretical ruminations about what the alchemists were writing about will get you anywhere closer to the goal. YOU NEED THE HANDS-ON EXPERIENCE TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE ALCHEMISTS WERE TALKING ABOUT. And in order to gain such experience YOU NEED TO BE READY TO CONFRONT AND ACCEPT A MULTITUDE OF FAILURES FIRST. No one "hits the mark" in his first attempt at anything. If you are the kind of person who easily gives up by repeated failures, then the alchemists' "booby-trap" has worked. You have been defeated and effectively removed from the equation. The alchemists' goal of keeping "unworthy" seekers at bay has worked; they have won, and you have lost. Only those who keep persevering in the face of repeated failure and never give up and continue to investigate & observe all manner of reactions have a chance of finding the truth.

I know exactly what you are trying to say, and, as before, I have difficulty explaining my viewpoint for two reasons. The first is that if I say too much, I will be revealing some very important information that is not meant to be openly revealed. Secondly, your perspective is very much trapped into the views of today and modern science. As I continually strive to say, “you have to be able to think like the alchemists did 1000 or 1500 years ago”. They thought very different from how we think today, and I agree that it’s very difficult to put ourselves in their sandals. If they saw a comet, they would report seeing a “fiery serpent” in the sky or something like that. That doesn’t mean that it really was a burning snake, but that it visually gave the impression of a burning snake. It was their poetic and imaginative way of describing a real observance to others at the time. Today we know what a comet actually is, and most can describe it fairly accurately and consistently (although even today, fear and surprise can significantly distort that recorded observation). However, the indigenous people in the Brazilian jungles may still describe it today as a “fiery serpent” or any other similar animal that they are familiar with.

So the ancients did not have the science we have today. Thus they came up with creative theories based on their observations. For example, they noticed that there was almost always some silver in gold deposits, but never any gold in silver deposits. This, and other such observations, led them to the theory that metals matured progressively, from the most primitive (lead) to the most perfect (gold). Thus the little silver that they found in gold deposits was just some silver still in the maturation process of becoming gold. The reason there was no gold in the silver deposits, was because the environment was not right for the silver to become gold. Because the environment wasn’t right, none of the silver could convert to gold. Of course, there are loopholes in this theory, but we know that based on modern science. But it was their way to explain observations based on what they knew at the time. The theories were wrong, but the observations were accurate.

So, you say that because these theories were wrong, we can’t deduce anything useful from what they said in the theoretical sections of their treatises. I totally disagree - we can still accurately deduce their observations, which are the real key, not the theories. It’s the keen observations that they made which allows us to understand how they arrived at their process, as well as what material(s) they used in the preparation. These are the very observations that let us unravel the decnamen they used, as well as the process. Once you determine what these decnamen are, you can substitute the names, and follow them through the rest of the treatise, as well as others. Then you test them with logic for consistency.

If they create inconsistencies from a practical sense, then you likely have erred somewhere in the interpretation and have to start all over again and revise/correct your interpretations. If there is a fair degree of consistency within the treatise as well as other related treatises, in a practical sense, based on what we know of how materials behave under various conditions, then you can be fairly sure that your theory is likely correct. The next step is to work out all the details, and put it to the test in the laboratory.

I’m not sure how I can make this any more clear, other than revealing too much of what shouldn’t be openly revealed.

Kibric
08-08-2017, 10:11 PM
The first is that if I say too much, I will be revealing some very important information that is not meant to be openly revealed


other than revealing too much of what shouldn’t be openly revealed

not meant to be openly revealed ?
shouldn't be openly revealed ?

who told you this ?

Illen A. Cluf
08-08-2017, 10:17 PM
not meant to be openly revealed ?
shouldn't be openly revealed ?

who told you this ?

Alchemists' code.

Awani
08-08-2017, 10:40 PM
...than revealing too much of what shouldn't be openly revealed.

And why not?

:p

Illen A. Cluf
08-08-2017, 11:10 PM
And why not?

:p

You've heard all the arguments. There are quite a number of posts about that.

black
08-09-2017, 04:43 AM
Alchemists' code.

Thank you Mr Cluf.

As I see it.... the First Key of Alchemy is the desire, fortitude, and tenacity to be able to study.

And when I say study I mean more than 2 or 3 pages of reading per week or day for that matter.

For the majority of the members of this forum, Alchemy is a pastime / hobby and that is ok.

They will not learn anything of value in this Art.

But for a very, very small percentage of members Alchemy is their passion, it has become their whole meaning and purpose in life.

A most devout path:
Totally committed to a cause or belief. Dedicated, devoted, committed, loyal, faithful, staunch, genuine, firm, steadfast, resolute, unwavering, sincere, wholehearted, keen, earnest, enthusiastic, zealous, passionate, ardent, fervent, intense, vehement, active, sworn.


These are the few that will gain the understanding to evolve in the Great Work of Alchemy.

If you do the work / study and the PRACTICAL you will clearly know
which authors write True Alchemy and which ones do not.
This is the understanding gained from diligent work.

Diligent:
Having or showing care and conscientiousness in one's work or duties.
Industrious, hardworking, assiduous; conscientious, particular,
punctilious, meticulous, painstaking, rigorous, exacting, careful,
thorough, sedulous, attentive, heedful, intent, earnest, studious;
constant, persevering, persistent, tenacious, pertinacious, zealous,
dedicated, committed, driven, active, busy; unflagging, untiring,
tireless, indefatigable, dogged.

As I have written before , one of the reasons Alchemists do not share this understanding / knowledge of the work OPENLY is that it would deprive a soul of so much very important growth etc, etc.


Nobody rides for free.

Hobby = a waste of time in Alchemy

Devout path = understanding / comprehension = KEYS.

But I could be wrong.

black
08-09-2017, 06:01 AM
An after thought to the previous post ....

If anyone feels I am incorrect in any way or totally wrong in the way I view this, please step forward now and do not hesitate in correcting me.

I'm always open to the possibility of learning more and I welcome the opportunity of constructive criticism.

A major part of Alchemy Forum is that we all have the opportunity
to learn so much.

elixirmixer
08-09-2017, 06:08 AM
Well then theres always the passionate, die-hard alchemy lover who is still just a fool and who slips further and further into mental and physical illness while all the while spending every dollar they have trying to heal....

Alchemy's a bitch. But I love her ;)

Axismundi000
08-09-2017, 06:38 AM
Thank you Mr Cluf.

As I see it.... the First Key of Alchemy is the desire, fortitude, and tenacity to be able to study.

And when I say study I mean more than 2 or 3 pages of reading per week or day for that matter.

For the majority of the members of this forum, Alchemy is a pastime / hobby and that is ok.

They will not learn anything of value in this Art.

But for a very, very small percentage of members Alchemy is their passion, it has become their whole meaning and purpose in life.

A most devout path:
Totally committed to a cause or belief. Dedicated, devoted, committed, loyal, faithful, staunch, genuine, firm, steadfast, resolute, unwavering, sincere, wholehearted, keen, earnest, enthusiastic, zealous, passionate, ardent, fervent, intense, vehement, active, sworn.


These are the few that will gain the understanding to evolve in the Great Work of Alchemy.

If you do the work / study and the PRACTICAL you will clearly know
which authors write True Alchemy and which ones do not.
This is the understanding gained from diligent work.

Diligent:
Having or showing care and conscientiousness in one's work or duties.
Industrious, hardworking, assiduous; conscientious, particular,
punctilious, meticulous, painstaking, rigorous, exacting, careful,
thorough, sedulous, attentive, heedful, intent, earnest, studious;
constant, persevering, persistent, tenacious, pertinacious, zealous,
dedicated, committed, driven, active, busy; unflagging, untiring,
tireless, indefatigable, dogged.

As I have written before , one of the reasons Alchemists do not share this understanding / knowledge of the work OPENLY is that it would deprive a soul of so much very important growth etc, etc.


Nobody rides for free.

Hobby = a waste of time in Alchemy

Devout path = understanding / comprehension = KEYS.

But I could be wrong.

Any endeavour e.g. Learning to play the violin requires commitment and discipline and PRACTICE to achieve results. As a general observation if a person wishes to follow a code of secrecy why discuss and imply possession of secrets then refuse to divulge, patronise, and suggest vast quantities of reading. Particularly as some old Alchemy texts were entirely made up nonsense for the purpose of profit in selling overpriced books pretending they contain the mysteries of Alchemy. In the vernacular those here who have suggested just reading and meditating are likely just up themselves.

There is I think a quality that is being missed here that of spiritual maturity, it surprises me that so many 'advanced' Alchemy practitioners have not mentioned this, perhaps it is not a consideration in some people's view on this forum. Franz Bardons material explains this idea well: a persons progress (through his training) will be impacted by spiritual maturity so if they have done Hermetic work and effort in previous lifetimes they will likely progress more rapidly. For example in Bardon's 3rd book Key to the True Quaballah getting about halfway through the work specified is the achievement of many lifetimes and to become liberated whilst living.

This concept is why I think so many here who say just read and meditate are muppets. I understand the need for secrecy if you have mastered Alchemy the trouble you could have from desperate individuals and in some countries the authorities could be bad. The fact that in this thread no-one has identified that spiritual maturity could also impact achievement suggests a distinct lack of it in some quarters although some posters have expressed this idea in indirect ways e.g. SM can help one person and injure another and other less direct explanations. In the main though spiritual maturity ( different to abbreviation SM) has not been mentioned and I suggest in some instances here that is due to a lack of such as evinced by the go read, it is pointless to practice first and I have the secret but I'm not telling - narcissism and psychological crutch as I mention previous.

NB Lab Alchemy is a technical art like learning to play a musical instrument not practicing the technical side of the endeavour and just doing theory I would have thought is obviously absurd what are some of you people doing?

black
08-09-2017, 08:59 AM
Hello Mr. Axis

I will try to address some of the points you have made.


I have never seen anyone openly confess to having obtained The Philosophers Stone on the Alchemy Forums.

If someone has the Philosophers Stone then there is nothing they need
from anyone else. They have it ALL. I assume only.


Spirit / God / The Force.... whatever you choose to call it.

It directed me to the study of Alchemy and I'm pretty shore it wasn't for the making of large gold ingots.

As I have already written that some persons in the know may not share information openly because they care about a students
spiritual / soul growth.

I think if anyone has a good, clear, solid foundation of Alchemic theory
then the practice in the lab is just the proof of their understanding.

A bit like learning to read music and then playing it.

If you are given a fine piece of written music without having learned to read music you will never be able to play it even if you can play your instrument well.


Mr. Axis how does anyone get a good, clear, solid foundation of Alchemic theory ????

Axismundi000
08-09-2017, 11:01 AM
This a straw man arguement because at no time have I suggested not reading books on Alchemy. Rather I have proposed that both reading and practical experimentation occur. Just as the violin student learns to play the instrument and also gradually develops the ability to read sheets of music. The increasing expertise in both playing the violin and reading music going hand in hand. I think here on this thread the inevitable point of futility is approaching as is often the situation in on-line discussions.

I understand that I will not be able to change anyone's opinion here, it should also be understood that sometimes I will not simply put up with nonsense.

Awani
08-09-2017, 11:15 AM
My perspective on what has been discussed here recently:

A surgeon can explain to me all the tricks of the trade, it does not make me a surgeon. That is why 'need to know basis' is childish. Usually when someone claims such elitism it means they know nothing.

It is the same with those who claim certainty of 'enlightenment' or 'last life' or any such 'elitism'... by default such individuals are far from all those things.

A true master does not need to inform anyone of their 'level'. And a master at a craft (any craft) does not give away their 'knowledge' or 'secrets' by full disclosure (see surgeon allegory above).

I can make the Stone, but how I do it is a secret. = disqualified

In all trades there is a need for people to be 'the one'. This is a human trait that happens when any group is formed, there is always someone that becomes 'the one', and someone who wants to be 'the one'. This is a trap. And as big a trap for those who want to become the 'leader', as it is for the leader him/herself. Unless that individual fully understands the cosmic joke.

However someone that claims to fully understand the cosmic joke, is also full of shit. IMO.

But good luck with all your 'hobbies'. Everything anyone would do without reward is, in a sense, a hobby. So nothing 'low' or 'less' about that.

:p

black
08-09-2017, 12:27 PM
@ Axis.....Very good points. I must confess Axis you have stirred me to thinking that if I did become a Master Alchemist some day, how would I openly share the knowledge with those that need it.
I shall take this line of thought under deep consideration.

@Awani....What you have written sits well and true with me.


Thank you both for your valued critique.

Kiorionis
08-09-2017, 01:00 PM
In the vernacular those here who have suggested just reading and meditating are likely just up themselves.

I think it's funny that most people assume meditation leads nowhere. Especially those people who practice evocation, invocation or Astral projection. All of these are brought out through reading and meditating. In fact, if you don't know how to meditate, you won't be successful in these types of practices.

In the Taoist practice of Weidan (inner alchemy), there is only reading and meditating on the occult/energy body. The lab work is internal, and highly productive and rewarding; in my opinion, meditation is the only way to "Know Thyself" -- which is a requirennet for advancement and success.

As the Mahabharata states: Science is the contemplation of Self

Illen A. Cluf
08-09-2017, 01:47 PM
Before anyone jumps to unwarranted conclusions, let me be clear. I do not, and have never claimed to be a Master. I'm just a humble, but passionate student like many of you. I have also never claimed to have made the Stone.

I just believe to have unraveled some of the mystery behind the identification of the prima materia as well as the process, based on an intensive study of very old texts, particularly the sections involving their understanding of how Nature works, as well as decoding some of their allegorical stories. Anyone can do this with enough study, and as I tried to stress, making an effort to think like the ancients did, based on their limited understanding of science. As long as you hold strongly to your modern biases, this unraveling will likely not happen easily. Is my understanding correct? All I know is that it appears to be consistent across a number of old texts, so that's only my first step. My next step is to continue this process to flush out some of the details, and conduct some experimentation. This will help fill in the details. At that point I can conduct a proper experiment and see what develops.

As for revealing anything, there is not a single person on this forum (out of hundreds) who has revealed any significant secrets. Yet there are many who have hinted that they know something, but refuse to reveal them openly. Some of these people are even strongly admired by those who accuse me of not revealing what I know. Take for example Green Lion. He has claimed to have uncovered the secret to making SM. Yet, I do not see the current members belittling him or demanding to know what he knows? Why is that? Why are some belittled while others are not?

At this point, what I have uncovered is yet unverified. I still have lots of work to do to determine whether or not my theories have any validity. So why should I reveal what I know at this time? The point of my posts was not to disclose unproven theories, but to stress the importance of studying old texts, particularly the theoretical/philosophical sections of the texts and thinking as they did 1000 or 1500 years ago. That's it. So please focus on that part of what I have been trying to say, rather than trying to belittle me for not giving out unproven theories. There's already far too much confusion in these forums regarding unproven theories given out as fact. We just don't need any more.

The whole subject of whether or not alchemical secrets should be freely handed out has already been addressed numerous times in many threads on this forum. If everyone thinks that it should be openly revealed, then why, at this point of time, after over a thousand years, are we all still in the dark? Obviously those who do know have a very important reason why those secrets should not be openly revealed, since not one single person in all that time, of those who did know, has revealed them openly. Please think about that before you begin to attack those who may have stumbled onto some of the secrets.

black
08-09-2017, 02:31 PM
Well then theres always the passionate, die-hard alchemy lover who is still just a fool and who slips further and further into mental and physical illness while all the while spending every dollar they have trying to heal....

Alchemy's a bitch. But I love her ;)

OH....Mr. Mixer

You have everything going for you.

You are passionate about this work and you have youth on your side.
I was in my 40's when I started Alchemy, now I'm closer to 70 than 60.
Only wish I knew about Alchemy when I was your age.

My health is not what it was and I'm finding it harder to think and
read, so take it from an older student of the Art and make the best of the years you have.

Study hard, learn all you can, then put it to the test in the lab.

Illen A. Cluf
08-09-2017, 02:53 PM
Thank you Mr Cluf.

As I see it.... the First Key of Alchemy is the desire, fortitude, and tenacity to be able to study.

And when I say study I mean more than 2 or 3 pages of reading per week or day for that matter.

I went through years when I would study alchemy for about 30 hours per week or more. I even read during lunch and coffee breaks at work.


If you do the work / study and the PRACTICAL you will clearly know
which authors write True Alchemy and which ones do not.

It's always safest and most instructive to go back to the earliest texts, particularly the Arabic texts, which they preserved from earlier sources.


As I have written before , one of the reasons Alchemists do not share this understanding / knowledge of the work OPENLY is that it would deprive a soul of so much very important growth etc, etc.

Exactly! Learning alchemy is one thing, but allowing your soul to grow is far more important. As such, even though alchemy can become a passion, there are actually other far more effective ways of allowing your soul to develop.


Nobody rides for free.

Yet today, many expect everything for free. Look at all the youth today who steal music and do not pay a penny towards the struggling musicians by purchasing their albums or CD's. Few wish to take responsibility for themselves.

Schmuldvich
08-09-2017, 04:24 PM
I challenge you to prove me that works like the Coelum Philosophorum, or Baron Rusestein's manuscripts, or the works of Tugel, or the Golden Chain of Homer, even the Vegetable Work of Isaac Hollandus or Basil Valentine Triumphal Chariot or Manuals, are written using decknames and cryptic terms.

Earlier you advised another member of that forum to study every alchemical work which he can find in sites like rexresearch.com. If some of those works werent written by real adepts, as you now say, why didnt you show him which works are good and genuine productions and which ones were written by charlatans? I believe that this little thing would have helped me a lot.
I will not take the time to "prove to you" the above works contain absolute Truth.

(One cannot explain to a child multiplication unless the child first understands addition)

The same goes for spoonfeeding you or anyone else...You must first have a foundation. No one is going to show you which works are good and genuine...this is something you must take time to do for yourself.

Some people on this message board leave breadcrumbs (hints) for the genuine Seeker. What we choose to do with these breadcrumbs differs from person to person. We all progress and learn at different speeds. Some here are more mature than others and capable of learning while others are stuck in their old ways and never change.




I went through years when I would study alchemy for about 30 hours per week or more. I even read during lunch and coffee breaks at work.
Provided here by Illen is a wonderful example of someone dedicated to our Art. Is this not an example we should all follow?

I know at least for for me--besides providing for myself--everything including relationships, friends, and fun is on the backburner until I achieve my Goal. This is called sacrifice and something that everyone genuinely dedicated to learning about Alchemy should consider. Nothing is more important to me than learning the secrets of this Universe. I have found my passion in life and what I have dedicated this earthy existence to.




I have no clue why people get so hung on Philalethes/Starkey. I read some of Starkey's lab notes, he also wrote under the pseudonym of Philalethes, and was not a genuine adept.
Interesting to hear this coming from your mouth!



As I continually strive to say, “you have to be able to think like the alchemists did 1000 or 1500 years ago”. They thought very different from how we think today, and I agree that it’s very difficult to put ourselves in their sandals. If they saw a comet, they would report seeing a “fiery serpent” in the sky or something like that. That doesn’t mean that it really was a burning snake, but that it visually gave the impression of a burning snake. It was their poetic and imaginative way of describing a real observance to others at the time.

So, you say that because these theories were wrong, we can’t deduce anything useful from what they said in the theoretical sections of their treatises. I totally disagree - we can still accurately deduce their observations, which are the real key, not the theories.

I’m not sure how I can make this any more clear.
YES! Not only can we learn from their observations, but we can also learn from comprehending the spirit of their words. Many Masters did not write openly and preferred to deliver their teachings in veiled speech that few can understand. As pointed out earlier, the multifaceted tool that Sages used is called an acroamatic cipher.


http://i.imgur.com/yrg5wQA.png




As I see it.... the First Key of Alchemy is the desire, fortitude, and tenacity to be able to study. And when I say study I mean more than 2 or 3 pages of reading per week or day for that matter. For the majority of the members of this forum, Alchemy is a pastime / hobby and that is ok. They will not learn anything of value in this Art.

For a very, very small percentage of members Alchemy is their passion, it has become their whole meaning and purpose in life. These are the few that will gain the understanding to evolve in the Great Work of Alchemy.

One of the reasons Alchemists do not share this understanding / knowledge of the work OPENLY is that it would deprive a soul of so much very important growth etc, etc.
Each person on Earth has their own journey with things to learn. We all have different starting points and end points, and we all have differing levels of dedication to what we study. Everyone is different and I respect that. I like how you point out that the first step in learning something is desire, I completely agree!




Learning to play the violin requires commitment and discipline and PRACTICE to achieve results.

There is I think a quality that is being missed here that of spiritual maturity - I have the secret but I'm not telling - narcissism and psychological crutch as I mention previous.
One way to learn is by having someone show you. A second way is trial and error, picking up a violin and playing for hours until you get it. A third way is by studying the works of predecessors and learning through them.

More than one way to learn how to play the violin exists, and each way has its strengths and weaknesses, much like Alchemy. Everyone has their preferred method and own path.

With all of the countless ways to learn to play a violin, every single way requires a foundation. The more solid the foundation, the easier it is to successfully accomplish the goal sought. My method of learning was reading everything I could find in order to get familiar with the Subject; very little made sense at first but I knew I was on the right path. Then I re-read the same books after having read many others of the same Subject, and I began to see the parallels. Once I saw the parallels, I again re-read the same books over and over again and slowly began to emerge what I discerned to be Truth. When I established what I believed to be a sound foundation of Truth, I needed to put this "understanding" through tests to see if what I believed I was comprehending was actually Truth. After years of studying and laying down the groundwork I was finally ready to assess my knowledge of the Subject I sought to understand. I did this by performing experiments and was overjoyed to see the things I saw exactly paralleled what the predecessors before me previously saw! Everything they said was true! All of the reading and learning helped me get to where I am today. I do not think I am a Master, nor do I believe that I am better or more special than anybody. Anyone can get to where I am today.

Being more advanced than others does not make anyone a Master. It simply proves that they have done more study and spent more time sifting through fluff, learning, comprehending, and understanding their Art. Their dedication shows, and the fruits of their labor become readily apparent to everybody. We can all learn from Masters.



"Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inside are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits: they do not gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles, do they?" Matthew 7:15-16


I have never seen anyone openly confess to having obtained The Philosophers Stone on the Alchemy Forums.

Mr. Axis how does anyone get a good, clear, solid foundation of Alchemic theory ????
Because no one has!!! Many have come close and are on the right path, but not one individual here has the Philosopher's Stone in their possession.



I understand that I will not be able to change anyone's opinion here, it should also be understood that sometimes I will not simply put up with nonsense.
Words change people. The second you give up is the second you stop making a change. Your input is appreciated and valued! Please continue to share!

Axismundi000
08-09-2017, 05:29 PM
I think it's funny that most people assume meditation leads nowhere. Especially those people who practice evocation, invocation or Astral projection. All of these are brought out through reading and meditating. In fact, if you don't know how to meditate, you won't be successful in these types of practices.

In the Taoist practice of Weidan (inner alchemy), there is only reading and meditating on the occult/energy body. The lab work is internal, and highly productive and rewarding; in my opinion, meditation is the only way to "Know Thyself" -- which is a requirennet for advancement and success.

As the Mahabharata states: Science is the contemplation of Self

As a person who practices evocation, Invocation and projection I have not said meditation leads nowhere although pratyahara practice actualy does and that is the point of that particular meditation. I should think by now my view is fairly clear that for Lab Alchemy which I think comes under the heading Practical Alchemy just sitting around reading old Alchemy books and meditating is not enough, actual practical lab activity is also necessary. Sure with the spiritual or inner Alchemy this is what people do. If someone said they were talking about inner/spiritual Alchemy and said just read 4 books a day and meditate I would have not bothered to respond. From other threads I note you seem familiar with Bardon's material Kiorionis so you must realise a lot of meditative practice is part of that work. Why this perverse persistence in assuming a view must be entirely polar? Especially when I have repeatedly agreed in various posts that reading Alchemy books and meditation has value?

elixirmixer
08-20-2017, 09:41 AM
Okay, so, I am going to make........ The Stone.

Not a stone.

Not the RC Blood stone (actually ill be making that as well) ((This is not THE stone btw :p))

I am going the make The Philosophers Stone

I am going to record the progress, I wont leave much hidden other than what is forbidden to reveal.

I am going to couple this expedition with a 40 day fasting cycle using only herbal teas and spagyrics to keep my body functioning. I've learnt that fasting coupled with lots of sleep is the most effective way to detoxify your brain. Reason being, is that after 24 hours of fasting, the body begins to break down fat cells, which release a drug to the brain called ketone! These ketones act as stimulation for mitochondria within the cells (the part of the cell that's responsible for most of its energy production) and during sleep, these hyped up mitochondria begin flushing out the brain.

I've decided now, that when I make the philosophers stone, I am going to have an absolute cap of a certain amount of gold created and never any more. I feel very un-easy about making gold with the stone, at the same time, i'm also aware that God didnt give me the thing for nothing and He knows that I am deeply sick of not providing for my own family, on my own.

I am taking the manufacturing of SM quite seriously. It seems to me that SM does in fact have multiple uses and it benefits the alchemist significantly to have this Spirit in as high a volumes as possible.

In order to do that, and have the ability to make an endless supply, things are going to have to get pretty serious around here. First thing in the morning I'm spending $1000AU on some serious fire power. An oxy/propane blowtorch kit, with some nice big cylinders of fuel. I will be practising the art of making my own glassware contraptions to extract The Spirit. In the long term, its better than buying glassware I need because glassware is fucking expensive so if I want multiple apparatus to make SM (and I do) then I will have to learn to make my own.

My question for the group is, what should I do with the stone after I have it?

black
08-20-2017, 10:48 AM
Hey....Mr. Mixer

Some more friendly advice.

Buying oxy / acet gear and renting the gas bottles is a total waste of your time and money.

The only way to learn glass blowing properly is to work with a scientific / lab ware
glass blower.

If you have a spare year or two for this, then go ahead.


I have spent many hours watching my glass blower work, he makes it look
easy .....IT'S NOT.

You have more glassware than you need.

In years to come you will find out that you have wasted an enormous amount
of money, time and effort on stuff that you did not need.

What you really need is to know what you are doing before you start buying stuff.

Please print this out and pin it on your lab wall, look at it in 5 or 10 years and
have a giggle.

Kiorionis
08-20-2017, 01:13 PM
I am going to couple this expedition with a 40 day fasting cycle using only herbal teas and spagyrics to keep my body functioning.

Some more information you might be interested in, pertaining to fasting. Herbert Shelton writes in The Science and Fine Art of Fasting (https://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/164176514/The-Science-and-Fine-Art-of-Fasting-Herbert-M-Shelton-pdf) that the human body can safely lose about 15-20% (maybe it was 30? Can't remember) of its starting weight during a fast.

I fasted for 9 days last fall and lost 15% of my weight in the first 5 days. After that it was about 1% per day of weight loss. That is, starting weight at 145lbs, and after five days I was down to about 120lbs

Anyways. Paying attention to the body weight, plus pulse, is essential. Also, I totally recommend reading Shelton's book during your fast. It will help motivate you and calm any negative thoughts like "oh shit, I'm gonna die!!"

He also mentions that the body becomes much more sensitive to nutritional intake. So while eating, you might be able to drink a whole pot of tea and feel fine, but during the fast it will hit you heavily after just one cup!

In other words, cut back to a very small dosage!

elixirmixer
09-26-2017, 04:10 AM
Spiritus Mundi is a very interesting substance. It seems to have the ability to even volatize water itself. It also naturally circulates, even when the temperature is constant all the way around the bottle/flask.

Another thing i've noticed is that it changes the magnetic properties of water, effecting its hydrogen bonding. Water impregnated with SM seems to 'avoid' other waters if possible. I noticed that when vapour that contained SM, water, and fragrance molecules is gentle distilled, the water would literally avoid gathering in areas on the glass that had droplets of distilled water presence from poorly drying the flask prior to use.I find these new properties very interesting.

The most interesting of these properties has to be this ability to volatilise other materials. I'm yet to see if this special water will volatilise plant salts, however, if it does, that basically means that im on the money and am going to finally be able to help people at the capacity I would like.

I encourage everyone in Australia to come to the Australian Alchemy forum catch up party. If all goes well, I will have samples of the true alchemical plant stone to share with all of our members.

JDP
09-26-2017, 04:44 AM
Spiritus Mundi is a very interesting substance. It seems to have the ability to even volatize water itself. It also naturally circulates, even when the temperature is constant all the way around the bottle/flask.

Another thing i've noticed is that it changes the magnetic properties of water, effecting its hydrogen bonding. Water impregnated with SM seems to 'avoid' other waters if possible. I noticed that when vapour that contained SM, water, and fragrance molecules is gentle distilled, the water would literally avoid gathering in areas on the glass that had droplets of distilled water presence from poorly drying the flask prior to use.I find these new properties very interesting.

http://www.bicycleorgycollective.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/CoverArt_Pinery1.jpg

elixirmixer
09-26-2017, 05:16 AM
Your hatred for SM is hilarious JDP. Good to see Awani didnt boot your ass out of here :o:cool:

JDP
09-26-2017, 05:21 AM
Your hatred for SM is hilarious JDP. Good to see Awani didnt boot your ass out of here :o:cool:

Can someone really "hate" something that there is no shred of proof it actually exists??? It would be like "hating" the Tooth-Fairy.

elixirmixer
09-26-2017, 06:52 AM
What would you do if somebody DID PROVE that SM exists JDP?

How would that change the way you look at Alchemy do you think?

JDP
09-26-2017, 07:26 AM
What would you do if somebody DID PROVE that SM exists JDP?

How would that change the way you look at Alchemy do you think?

I would become the most stout defender of SM the Universe has ever seen. I am the champion of empirical facts, so SM would not be an exception. I would defend its reality with teeth & nails.

Andro
09-26-2017, 07:33 AM
I would become the most stout defender of SM the Universe has ever seen. I am the champion of empirical facts, so SM would not be an exception. I would defend its reality with teeth & nails.

EM, send JDP a sample!

Perhaps then we'll finally have some empirical lab tests to see what it really is :)

elixirmixer
09-26-2017, 08:31 AM
Yes, I'd love a professional analysis of what it is! I wasn't sure it was really a done thing, sending out samples, because I assumed that people would have already done it.

I only have teeny tiny amounts right now, however, I imagine that when this stone is complete ill have a radical new spark in life since after 13 long years ill finally have a medicine that I can rightly call "Alchemical", and this should be all I need to move forward and increase the SM yields around here.

I should also clarify that I'm not making it pure at the moment. I've "stolen" it, and it does contain water. However, this water behaves very differently to normal water.

Slightly off topic, but still relivant, Andro, please share, have you consumed the Volatized Salts, and if so, what remarks could you share about there effectiveness as a medicine?

And yes, happy to send a sample, and also do my own gas-chromatography when I do have some in it's pure form. I hope I get around to it this spring, however there are a lot of important projects going on around here ATM so I might miss out.