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Voltaire
12-11-2016, 12:56 AM
The Real Philosopher's Stone: Exactly what it is, defined, and how to bring it forth

Philosophers stone:
http://theglobalelite.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/zodiac-and-the-salts-of-salvation-by-george-w-carey-inez-eudora-perry.pdf


Philosophers stone, explained by Santos Bonacci (skip to 21:05 to get straight into it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yRRkOtiJEo&list=PLhGFnfUroMK0zoUMytcBR2ieSWlC8poG4

elixirmixer
12-11-2016, 07:01 AM
What is this... It's just about cell salts..

Voltaire
12-11-2016, 07:38 AM
What is this... It's just about cell salts..

Bingo

Voltaire
12-11-2016, 07:48 AM
What is this... It's just about cell salts..

http://www.dreadlockssite.com/soaring-eagle/group_discuss/833/cell-salts-there-are-twelve-months-twelve-sun-signs-and-there-are-twelve-biochemic-salts

...i will help shed light, and if possible go as far as helping to teach some some interested in the science behind it all too. to start though, heres a list of signs, and things to help you, because based on your sign your are deficient in three cell salts. attaining the missing three is to attain the philosophers stone, something we should all be striving for now...

The philosopher's stone is the missing piece to your puzzle. The three cell salts you missed out on in-uteri.
Supplementing these is your first step, and the most crucial step.

elixirmixer
12-11-2016, 07:52 AM
This has nothing to do with the stone, and labelling it as "The real philosophers stone"....

I mean seriously....

Voltaire
12-11-2016, 08:41 AM
I mean seriously....

Seriously...?
I've spelled it out quite a few times there, I don't know how I could have made it more clear.
What do you think cell salts are then? :/
what is the philosopher's stone then?

I'm only going on the three different sources all confirming my answer. If it's wrong, then all the people saying this are wrong.
I personally think it makes a lot of sense... seriously...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher's_stone

It is also able to extend one's life and called the elixir of life, useful for rejuvenation and for achieving immortality;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWjz9pB70vc

It's all laid out there... For seriously.
How to work it out, make it, and prepare your body for transmutation.

from what I understand it goes:
Elixir > Transmutation > Ascension

The Elixir prepares the body,
Transmutation is a 7 part process of calcification, dissolution, fermentation, etc; to prepare the mind,
and Ascension, which we talked about in other threads to raise the oil up the spine

I get what you mean:
as it's an esoteric art it's not so black and white (pardon the pun), but that's my understanding.

what do you propose instead?
What did I get wrong?

elixirmixer
12-11-2016, 09:10 AM
My understanding is quite limited but I understand the stone to be spiritus mundi that has gone through the 7 processes and become 'fixed'.

I've never heard anyone ever refute to cell salts as a definition for the stone. Perhaps there are some great benefits there... Nevertheless, nothing to do with alchemy really, just vitamin deficiencies

Voltaire
12-11-2016, 10:34 AM
Nevertheless, nothing to do with alchemy really, just vitamin deficiencies

I'm sorry but I see it differently.

It's a shame we disagree on something, and if you can provide evidence to prove me wrong, or if anyone can, I'll gladly listen;
But It's widely accepted from many different resources, that these substances are the basis for the correct functioning of the works.
These aren't the only thing, as we've both mentioned you must go through the 7 steps of transmutation, but this is the foundation stone upon which all others are built (the foundation stone in alchemy is at the top of the pyramid, not the bottom).


The cell salts are the missing capstone of the pyramids of giza, the cornerstone of alchemy, the elixir of life; your body cannot function properly without them. When it has them you can follow the path and turn Lead or Bread into Gold (create the oil in your cerebrum, pass it from the moon to the sun, and turn it into the sacred oil)


I've provided many different resources all stating this, and all are saying the same thing.

As I've already mentioned before, this is an esoteric art, and as such there is the rule of 8 (7 different translations for any one given thing, and the 8th literal translation)

Again, if you can cite a reference contradicting me, I'll be glad to be educated on my mistake, but what you're reffering to to me seems like the great work itself once the stone is in place.

The purpose of this thread, as with all of my threads, is to bring forth the research I've discovered for peer review. Perhaps my title was slightly too specific and attention seeking - and that's my mistake - however I stand by my assertion that the philosopher's stone is what Santos Bonacci revealed with his research, Manly P Hall remarked in the 'Occult Anatomy of Man', and is described in detail in the 'Zodiac and the salts of salvation'

If I keep on down this path I run the risk of "trying to convince you", when I wish for my role here to be more bringing up topics to the forum for peer review, so if I still haven't peaked your interest, maybe it's best to agree to disagree.
Still a big fan of your posts though :cool:

JDP
12-11-2016, 03:23 PM
Seriously...?
I've spelled it out quite a few times there, I don't know how I could have made it more clear.
What do you think cell salts are then? :/
what is the philosopher's stone then?

I'm only going on the three different sources all confirming my answer. If it's wrong, then all the people saying this are wrong.
I personally think it makes a lot of sense... seriously...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher's_stone



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWjz9pB70vc

It's all laid out there... For seriously.
How to work it out, make it, and prepare your body for transmutation.

from what I understand it goes:
Elixir > Transmutation > Ascension

The Elixir prepares the body,
Transmutation is a 7 part process of calcification, dissolution, fermentation, etc; to prepare the mind,
and Ascension, which we talked about in other threads to raise the oil up the spine

I get what you mean:
as it's an esoteric art it's not so black and white (pardon the pun), but that's my understanding.

what do you propose instead?
What did I get wrong?

How about the fact that cell salts do NOT transmute many times their own weight of base metals into silver and gold, which is the most typical characteristic that distinguishes the Philosophers' Stone from virtually any other substance on the planet? There are many medicinal substances, but only one (or actually two: white & red, but they are generally considered to be two stages of the same substance) Philosophers' Stone. Therefore medicinal properties are not the best tell-tale sign to look into when trying to determine what is the real Philosophers' Stone, but its peculiar transmuting power, which 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of substances known to man do NOT posses. So how do you know if you have achieved the Stone? Simple: cast a small sample of it over a much larger amount of hot mercury or molten base metal. If it turns it into silver or gold, you have the genuine article in your hands.

elixirmixer
12-11-2016, 09:11 PM
Heavily agreeing with JDP, but also going to work out my cell salt deficiencies today ;)

Kiorionis
12-11-2016, 09:53 PM
What I think is interesting, is that as soon as the physical body is brought into balance, there's an increase in "projection" on a more subtle level.

Intellect is more usable, as well as the concentration of the mind towards practical pursuits

Cheers

Voltaire
12-12-2016, 12:31 AM
Simple: cast a small sample of it over a much larger amount of hot mercury or molten base metal. If it turns it into silver or gold, you have the genuine article in your hands.

So the philosopher's stone literally makes physical gold?
There's no deeper esoteric meaning that was hidden for centuries?

Have you ever made/found/seen/used this type of substance to make gold?



What I think is interesting, is that as soon as the physical body is brought into balance, there's an increase in "projection" on a more subtle level.

Intellect is more usable, as well as the concentration of the mind towards practical pursuits

Cheers


Like the focusing of a camera lense brings a picture into clarity

JDP
12-12-2016, 03:55 AM
So the philosopher's stone literally makes physical gold?

Yes. What else did you think it did when this most peculiar property of transmuting base metals into silver and gold is repeated over and over for centuries and centuries in the literature of alchemy? What else can anyone think the Stone does after reading the many witness accounts (many by people who themselves were not alchemists) who had the opportunity of handling samples of it and testing its transmuting power?


There's no deeper esoteric meaning that was hidden for centuries?

No, I'm afraid not. But do you think that making a substance that can transmute many times its own weight of base metals into silver and gold isn't already a very remarkable and unusual thing to warrant so much mystery and secrecy? The reason why chemists and physicists deny that the Stone exists is precisely because they find the existence of a substance possessed with such a remarkable property quite difficult to believe (based on their empirical experience and their theories/speculations about matter.)


Have you ever made/found/seen/used this type of substance to make gold?

No, I have not succeeded in making it... yet. But I do know that transmutation is quite real, though. There are other ways to achieve it, but not as impressive (and profitable) as the Stone.

elixirmixer
12-12-2016, 07:56 AM
There is of course a deeper spiritual meaning. That of 'the diamond body' or 'light body'

For a definitive answer, perhaps we call on Andro, which I believe in recent years has had experience with the stone and also who has extensive astral projection experience...

Andro... Did the Stone alter, improve, or stabilise you OBE travels... And more to the point, have you developed an 'Astral Body'

But yes my friend, real transmutation of base metals into their higher form.

Andro
12-12-2016, 08:17 AM
I was 'traveling' OOB/non-physically to many different realms LONG before I was even aware of the term 'Alchemy'.

It is my direct understanding that we all have an 'astral body'. It's not something that needs to be 'developed' - we only have to develop the skill to use this vehicle.

Also, even this 'astral body' is shed/discarded when we travel to more 'subtle' or 'rarefied' realms/densities.

And I don't have 'definitive answers' for anything.

elixirmixer
12-12-2016, 11:32 AM
Apologise for my assumptions...

I don't confess to think through all my posts. Still new to 'alchemical social media'.

As far as the post is concerned, in terms of cell salts 'filling' certain deficiencies, the term P.S. Could be used loosely, such as it is in regards to ormus (even though you could potentially make a stone from it).

However this still would just be a loose term, and not truly describe and associate with the real P.S.

This stone can be very elusive however, I have been studying 'alchemy' spoken loosely again for about 12 years. The stone is still a way off, but the journey, if applied practically both in life and in lab, is worth it's own salt.

Voltaire
12-12-2016, 11:14 PM
Yes. What else did you think it did when this most peculiar property of transmuting base metals into silver and gold is repeated over and over for centuries and centuries in the literature of alchemy? What else can anyone think the Stone does after reading the many witness accounts (many by people who themselves were not alchemists) who had the opportunity of handling samples of it and testing its transmuting power?

LOL.
Okay I'm calling Shenanigans here...

I don't think "witness accounts" can be reliable: (skip to 1:35)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulG8aqUJ03I
The yeomans tale, from the Cantebury Tales.


If you're taking these things literally, I think you've missed the trick.
Alchemy was practiced at a time when it was unlawful to practice the sacred arts outside of the catholic church, and you could be burned at the stake for doing so.
That is why alchemists hid their artform in symbolic imagery, and metaphorical witness accounts.
So that anyone reading it would take it literally and get led astray.
It's not possible to turn one element into another (technically it is, but we can only turn hydrogen into another element with massive hadron colliders, imagine the complexity of turning lead into gold... rather "Lead" is the base material of self, the impure self, "Gold" is the fully transmuted self, the higher self... I'm suprised no-one mentioned this to you earlier... :/ )
See here: http://www.soul-guidance.com/houseofthesun/alchemyintro.htm

I'm only telling you this out of love.
So you find your way to the truth of the art, and find some answers. Because there are truths and answers a plenty.
The bible is the best and most freely available Alchemical text, if you can read between the lines. (Exodus literally means dissolution)
(I've done this for decades, I do know what I'm talking about)

But if you won't listen to any of the COUNTLESS examples I've already provided, you won't believe me now... Dissonance and all that...
Check out Santos Bonacci on Youtube.
He LITERALLY explains the whole of alchemy in plain English:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ud9pv-Qcg
(skip to 2:20 to skip past into music)

Voltaire
12-12-2016, 11:17 PM
Apologise for my assumptions...

I don't confess to think through all my posts. Still new to 'alchemical social media'.

As far as the post is concerned, in terms of cell salts 'filling' certain deficiencies, the term P.S. Could be used loosely, such as it is in regards to ormus (even though you could potentially make a stone from it).

However this still would just be a loose term, and not truly describe and associate with the real P.S.

This stone can be very elusive however, I have been studying 'alchemy' spoken loosely again for about 12 years. The stone is still a way off, but the journey, if applied practically both in life and in lab, is worth it's own salt.


So what is the real philosopher's stone?
Because if I'm wrong, and all the resources I've shown in this thread are wrong, then I owe the reader of this thread the truth.
Also all Ego aside: I want to know the truth!

So is it a physical stone that literally turns mercury in the gold like JDP says?

ArcherSage
12-12-2016, 11:43 PM
Cell salts are important, for Salt or SAL is where we get "Salvation" from. Salt is a preservative.

Awani
12-13-2016, 01:14 AM
So what is the real philosopher's stone?

Good question. And good luck finding this answer from someone else. Look within and decide... then take a leap of faith. You don't want to toil away for the rest of your life based on some individual's opinion - unless it is the opinion I just made regarding not basing your path on someone else's opinion... LOL.


I want to know the truth!

The most important truth I have learned is that "truth" is ultimately unknowable.


So is it a physical stone that literally turns mercury in the gold like JDP says?

That is for you to figure out. We have a few threads I think (at least one) that discuss such aspects... is it gold? Something else? Etc:

Why make it? (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4950-Why-make-it)
Pseudo-Chemistry (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4852-Pseudo-chemistry)
Is Spiritual Alchemy A Valid Path? (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4824-Is-Spiritual-Alchemy-A-Valid-Path)

I'm sure there is more, can't recall any more at the moment...

:cool:

Voltaire
12-13-2016, 03:10 AM
Good question. And good luck finding this answer from someone else. Look within and decide... then take a leap of faith. You don't want to toil away for the rest of your life based on some individual's opinion - unless it is the opinion I just made regarding not basing your path on someone else's opinion... LOL.



The most important truth I have learned is that "truth" is ultimately unknowable.



That is for you to figure out. We have a few threads I think (at least one) that discuss such aspects... is it gold? Something else? Etc:

Why make it? (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4950-Why-make-it)
Pseudo-Chemistry (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4852-Pseudo-chemistry)
Is Spiritual Alchemy A Valid Path? (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4824-Is-Spiritual-Alchemy-A-Valid-Path)

I'm sure there is more, can't recall any more at the moment...

:cool:


I already know what the philosophers stone is, and have provided many different resources across this thread and other I've posted to back that up.

My point is everyone keeps talking about it like it's an etheric undefinable phenomena;
a physical stone like in the first harry potter movie, like a giant pink crystal that leaks out an oily goo and turns anything it touches to gold; and if drunk makes you live forever.
But when you ask someone, they don't have a definite answer, and tell you there is no definite answer; that the alchemists of old were literally creating physical gold...
There's nothing wrong with being fooled by this, as that was the point of these writtings being written as such.
So the uninitiated would read their texts, or the catholic church would read their texts, and when presented with a "almost magical chemistry process to create gold and all the wealth you could possibly want" would have them overcome with greed, and wouldn't be able to help themselves but go on a wild goose chase.

The philosophers stone is the cell salts your body needs, different for each person depending on your astrological alignment as birth.
Without them your body cannot produce the oil, and no matter how much you attempt to transmute your mind body and soul, you will never be able to ascend.

it's like the bible: people take it literally and laugh at it: or believe it righteously and devoutly.
The bible is an alchemical text, and when you understand this, and learn how to comprehend it, it's primarily about how to acheive alchemical perfect, full of biochemical equations, astrological explinations of star charts, and yoga positions.

The problem is until someone tells you this, you do not know to look for it.
I've now told you: and a I mentioned countless times produced enough evidence to back this up as not just a theory.

I think when you've spent many years believing in something as being literal, it's like youre staring at a painting, showing it off to all your friends, telling people how much you understand and appreciate it, then one day an art collector comes and tells you you've been holding the painting upside down all this time... rather than turn the painting upside down, and understand that before you were simply looking at an image through a keyhole, and someone's just opened the door for you, you slam the door shut, tell everyone there is no door, and that your painting was never upside down, ergo you were never wrong.
(im not saying anyone here's wrong, just that the picture is much bigger and much more vast than anyone here seems to be admitting; and there are an infinite number of perspectives, meaning there are an infinite number of different pictures.
The point of knowledge is no matter how much you know, there's always another layer, always a new thing to learn. just because youve been taking this all literally, just means now you know it all off by heart, you can understand the deeper meaning much clearer.)

Just dont allow cognitive dissonance to make you dig your heels in, and become stubborn, and reject this all outright.
I'm betting most people are so afraid of finding out this is not all literal, they haven't even watched or read the evidence I've been sharing; because they feel it will somehow "invalidate" their work.. this is just Ego. And Ego is just suffering. Nothing more.

ArcherSage
12-13-2016, 03:10 AM
What about kidney stones? They do a good job of transmuting what was once non pain into extreme agony. Perhaps that is the illusive stone, because you must toil in AGONY to find it. xD!

Kiorionis
12-13-2016, 03:19 AM
So are you suggesting that these essential 12 salts are not part of our every-day diet?

Voltaire
12-13-2016, 03:20 AM
What about kidney stones? They do a good job of transmuting what was once non pain into extreme agony. Perhaps that is the illusive stone, because you must toil in AGONY to find it. xD!

LOL
Thats jokes.


And a UTI is "the decension" because a little bit of pee descends down your leg :cool:


P.S knowing everything you know about Alchemy, Check out the Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone

It's an amazing alchemical work
Just as the Bible is, just as the Quran is

When you understand the formula of it, most classical stories are (Mary Shelly's Frankenstein: the modern day prometheus, Perseus and Medusa, HERCULES, Homer's Odyssey, etc)

ExtraEgo
12-13-2016, 03:39 AM
Voltaire, have you seen this thread on an another forum: http://psionguild.org/forums/showthread.php?p=73007

The member xenon7 claims to have made the stone in a particle accelerator with help from another member psi_seeker_34.

It is quite long but the last post summarizes it well. I can't quite discern if it's fakery, I just want to believe it's not.

Awani
12-13-2016, 04:57 AM
Check out the Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.

I'm sorry but in my humble opinion this book - in regards to alchemical knowledge or wisdom - is a complete joke. Have you read The Hero with a Thousand Faces (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces)?


In narratology and comparative mythology, the monomyth, or the hero's journey, is the common template of a broad category of tales that involve a hero who goes on an adventure, and in a decisive crisis wins a victory, and then comes home changed or transformed. - source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey)

Apart from dropping some names and rewritten encyclopaedia phrases Harry Potter is just another version of the Monomyth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey). Now the monomyth, or the hero's journey, might be alchemical in a sense... and it can be fitted to the various steps of the alchemical process. If you want to view Harry Potter as a valid alchemical source go right ahead... but in your own words:


The problem is until someone tells you this, you do not know to look for it. :)

As for the Bible and other Sacred Texts I agree with you that they can be read in a non-literal way. And I do read them like that to a large degree.

However cell salts doesn't "do it for me" at all. Although I think salt in general is a very good tool for healing and I use it all the time... once even swam in the Dead Sea. LOL.

:cool:

Voltaire
12-13-2016, 05:21 AM
Apart from dropping some names and rewritten encyclopaedia phrases Harry Potter is just another version of the Monomyth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey).
:cool:

What you're refering to is the 'Story Ark'

I'm talking about alchemical subtext.

Have you seen 'Gods of Egypt'?

The entire film got slated by critics and historians alike: the entire story doesn't adhere to the actual mythology literally.
But take a look from an alchemical perspective:
Each scene is a point to something in alchemy;
When he fights the snakes, Ida and Pingala, even to the point of Making them Ice then destroying them with fire,
He even says in one scene "you have a goat up your bum" (The goat, capricorn, the root/horse's tail)!!
Each of these scenes don't really make a great deal of sense to the uninitiated.

The real story is the story of Horus/Osirus
Cutting someone up into peices, then reattaching someone together, and them having eternal life because of it
(the same story told over and over, breaking down the body into its individual peices and reassembling;
descending into hell and raising up to paradise,
creating the oil with fire and raising the oil up the spine to the head,
jacob resting his head on the stone (coccyx) then ascending up the stairway to heaven)

So I agree with you, every story follows an ark:
the hero goes about their life aiming for something, suddenly something happens that brings hazard to this (the story ark) and the plot thickens, the hero fights against a bad guy villian or themself in a heroic battle, in the end they realise that what they wanted in the first place wasn't actually what they wanted; they get the girl, or save the town, usually using "love" as an overall theme to defeat "evil".

But I'm talking about the hidden subtext; the Illuminated message in these big budget stories, usually pointed to with small seemingly insignificant things: the hero or anti-hero falling down stairs or a ladder, imagery of the sun and the moon, Gematria pointing to clocks, or in Gods and Egypt really big bold In-Your-Face symbols, that everyone but the adept seem to notice.
So you're right, harry potter is a child's book, but saying it has no alchemical subtext is like saying snow white and the seven dwarfs doesn't have an alchemical subtext, like saying the Grimm's fairytales have no alchemical subtext, like saying jack and jill, or humpty dumpty have no alchemical or astrotheological subtext. This is the origin of all stories.
The inadept see a childrens book.
The adept and the elite see the hidden meaning.
Your world is filled with this suff, and the trick of the elite is we're all programmed not to see it.

Awani
12-13-2016, 05:33 AM
...but saying it has no alchemical subtext is like saying snow white and the seven dwarfs doesn't have an alchemical subtext, like saying the Grimm's fairytales have no alchemical subtext, like saying jack and jill, or humpty dumpty have no alchemical or astrotheological subtext.

What I really was trying to point out is that with "directed eyes" you can see an alchemical subtext in ANYTHING. In any film, book, comic or even soap opera. If it aids you to do so fine. None of my business. I'm just pointing out this other aspect... and in my own journey I have stumbled a few times because I got too focused on "seeing" subtext in everything to the point where it finally just becomes complete chaos.

My perspective now is far simpler, rarified... instead of - as an allegory - seeing a thousand different shapes of lamps and lightbulbs that represent Light, I see instead just the Light.


...and the trick of the elite is we're all programmed not to see it.

I personally don't think the elite knows left from right. They are idiots and given far too much credit for too many things in my opinion. I don't disagree that there isn't some form of programming going on, for the most part this programming is done by ourselves, to ourselves. And for every thought and moment of time that a human being sends their mental energy in their [the Elite's] general direction the result is just feeding them.

In my world these people are totally irrelevant and (as I've said before) they'll be serving my drinks in the afterlife. LOL.

But to be serious for a moment I actually send the elite my love and empathy. They are going to need it.

:cool:

JDP
12-13-2016, 06:44 AM
LOL.
Okay I'm calling Shenanigans here...

I don't think "witness accounts" can be reliable: (skip to 1:35)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulG8aqUJ03I
The yeomans tale, from the Cantebury Tales.


If you're taking these things literally, I think you've missed the trick.
Alchemy was practiced at a time when it was unlawful to practice the sacred arts outside of the catholic church, and you could be burned at the stake for doing so.
That is why alchemists hid their artform in symbolic imagery, and metaphorical witness accounts.
So that anyone reading it would take it literally and get led astray.
It's not possible to turn one element into another (technically it is, but we can only turn hydrogen into another element with massive hadron colliders, imagine the complexity of turning lead into gold... rather "Lead" is the base material of self, the impure self, "Gold" is the fully transmuted self, the higher self... I'm suprised no-one mentioned this to you earlier... :/ )
See here: http://www.soul-guidance.com/houseofthesun/alchemyintro.htm

I'm only telling you this out of love.
So you find your way to the truth of the art, and find some answers. Because there are truths and answers a plenty.
The bible is the best and most freely available Alchemical text, if you can read between the lines. (Exodus literally means dissolution)
(I've done this for decades, I do know what I'm talking about)

But if you won't listen to any of the COUNTLESS examples I've already provided, you won't believe me now... Dissonance and all that...
Check out Santos Bonacci on Youtube.
He LITERALLY explains the whole of alchemy in plain English:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ud9pv-Qcg
(skip to 2:20 to skip past into music)

Apparently you haven't read your very own source: Chaucer's "Canon's Yeoman's Tale" is in fact a parody of the much maligned "puffers" and "multipliers" of alchemical literature (but ironically for the alchemists and their constant attacks against these experimenters, I am quite sure that some of these "puffers/multipliers" did in fact make small amounts of silver and gold using their very own methods; I myself have successfully made small amounts of them by following some of these methods.) Chaucer was not against actual alchemy. Read the final part of the tale, where he cites such classic alchemical sources as Ibn Umail ("Senior Zadith") and Arnold of Villanova and defends secrecy in making the Stone (which surprise, surprise, as can be plainly seen by the context of the whole tale, has nothing to do with any of the strange MODERN misinterpretations of alchemy that you seem to believe in but with the transmutation of base metals into silver and gold, the classic alchemical topos par excellence.) In fact, Elias Ashmole included Chaucer among the alchemists due to his obvious defense of the subject at the end of his tale! (his "Canon's Yeoman's Tale" is included in the "Theatrum Chemicum Britannicum" collection of old English alchemical verse literature, alongside such thoroughly alchemical texts as Ripley's "12 Gates of Alchemy" and Norton's "Ordinal of Alchemy")

Also, read actual witness accounts who saw and handled samples of the Stone and tested its transmuting properties and became totally convinced of the reality of the subject. You can start by reading this excellent book by professor Lawrence Principe to get better acquainted with the subject:

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/6328.html

Even Robert Boyle himself, who has often been lauded (quite incorrectly) as the "Father of Modern Chemistry", witnessed a transmutation of lead into gold in his very own lab!

I find it very amusing that people with "mystical" inclinations such as yourself very quickly accept the supposed impossibility of transmutation (except by the methods of physics) and want to desperately look for "other meanings" for alchemy. Even if we accepted this THEORETICAL ASSUMPTION that transmutation is "impossible" without having access to particle accelerators, it would still only be a "recent" realization (transmutation of very tiny amounts of one supposed "element" into another one by the methods known to physics was only achieved in the early 20th century), the alchemists of centuries before would not have recognized any such "impossibility", so what they were doing made perfect sense to them and was not considered "impossible" by any means. The theoretical framework that the alchemists worked in did NOT have any insurmountable obstacles for metallic transmutation to happen (to them metals were in fact "compounds" of the "4 elements", just like everything else in the universe.) So you can rest assured that there is no "hidden meaning" in their texts. What they very plainly say they were doing is what they were actually doing (or if you give credence to the supposed "impossibility" of the subject: what they were trying to do): i.e. turning base metals into silver and gold by means of an artificial substance usually called "Elixir", "Tincture" or "Philosophers' Stone".

Voltaire
12-13-2016, 07:54 AM
impossible

I never said anything's impossible, you said that. I said there's 7 different meanings to every one.

Everything I've said has been disregarded here, yet you claim you've created gold without a particle accelerator.
I'd say, make lots and go sell it and buy a house in the virgin islands.
Use it to turn a ton of mercury into gold, then reinvest it in mining stocks.
You'll take over the worlds supply in 2-3 years and will LITERALLY rule the world.

Remember me when you get to the top: that random guy on an internet forum that sort of doubted you.



The point I'm trying to make, and seemingly failing, is that there's all this energy and resistance coming my way with lots of emotion telling me I'm wrong.
Just seems unnecessary.
Seems like you feel like your belief systems under attack, and you want to prove me wrong to secure your own self.

If I'm wrong, by all means: give me a step by step guide to how you made spectrum analized gold from mercury and I'll send you my wife (trust me, you'll send her back)

Until them I'm saying it's the oil created in the cerebrum, channeled through aries (the fatty calf, the prodigal son/SUN), the zodiac, down to the grass (the animal self) then raised up from the liver to the heart, to shine in all directions (make its way back to the head), this oil then lubricates the mind, turns your brain from using the 10% it does now to the near 100% it can do.
That's my opinion. If it offends, I'm sorry.

Awani
12-13-2016, 08:25 AM
The point I'm trying to make, and seemingly failing, is that there's all this energy and resistance coming my way with lots of emotion telling me I'm wrong.

I can't speak for everyone, but at least 75 % of the participants in this forum "debate". Very seldom does someone say X and then everyone chime in "yes". Through discussion I've changed my mind on more than one occasion, or advanced whatever I already consider "correct-ish". If you want to avoid challenge to your ideas get a blog (without a comment section). :)

I personally love it if I post something and lots of people start debating it... that is why I post it in the first place, to "cook it".

Also no one is going to read a very long pdf due to a link and a claim. Summarise it. Explain. Provide pdf as a "source". Just a friendly marketing tip. ;)


Seems like you feel like your belief systems under attack...

I don't think so. JDP is a literal-alchemy kind of guy. You just going to have to live with it. ;)

:cool:

JDP
12-13-2016, 12:09 PM
I never said anything's impossible, you said that. I said there's 7 different meanings to every one.

Everything I've said has been disregarded here, yet you claim you've created gold without a particle accelerator.
I'd say, make lots and go sell it and buy a house in the virgin islands.
Use it to turn a ton of mercury into gold, then reinvest it in mining stocks.
You'll take over the worlds supply in 2-3 years and will LITERALLY rule the world.

Remember me when you get to the top: that random guy on an internet forum that sort of doubted you.



The point I'm trying to make, and seemingly failing, is that there's all this energy and resistance coming my way with lots of emotion telling me I'm wrong.
Just seems unnecessary.
Seems like you feel like your belief systems under attack, and you want to prove me wrong to secure your own self.

If I'm wrong, by all means: give me a step by step guide to how you made spectrum analized gold from mercury and I'll send you my wife (trust me, you'll send her back)

Until them I'm saying it's the oil created in the cerebrum, channeled through aries (the fatty calf, the prodigal son/SUN), the zodiac, down to the grass (the animal self) then raised up from the liver to the heart, to shine in all directions (make its way back to the head), this oil then lubricates the mind, turns your brain from using the 10% it does now to the near 100% it can do.
That's my opinion. If it offends, I'm sorry.

But you did clearly imply it was "impossible" short of having access to modern machines like particle accelerators. Your own words:


"It's not possible to turn one element into another (technically it is, but we can only turn hydrogen into another element with massive hadron colliders, imagine the complexity of turning lead into gold.."

Regarding becoming rich through artificial silver and gold: if it was only that easy! The "particular" or "chymical" (notice: NOT "alchemical") processes that I have discovered (or rather rediscovered, since I have gained useful information in the right directions from the writings of "chymists" like Becher, Kunckel, Kellner, the anonymous author of "Alchymia Denudata", Juncker, Creiling, etc. but most of them have placed this useful information amid a TON of false processes and deliberate lies that you need to sift through to get at the true empirical facts) so far only produce small amounts of silver or gold, not even enough to defray the cost of producing them, let alone give you a profit. The only thing they are good for is to prove that transmutation is indeed very much real. That does not mean that there aren't any of such processes that are profitable, just that they are almost as difficult to discover as the Philosophers' Stone itself.

zoas23
12-13-2016, 04:23 PM
P.S knowing everything you know about Alchemy, Check out the Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone

It's an amazing alchemical work
Just as the Bible is, just as the Quran is

When you begin to quote Harry Potter as a sacred alchemical text, it's time to sit for a while and think: "What the hell am I thinking about?".

If not, we'll end up having "50 shades of Grey" and Tantra threads or comments about "eat, pray, love" and Shamanism...and a Sidney Sheldon sub-section of the forum.

ArcherSage
12-13-2016, 04:54 PM
For me Alchemy is the art of transforming or transmuting something from a non useful state, to a useful one. It does not necessarily have to transform one form of matter into another. I do however believe it is possible to transmute physical substances, I just tend to focus my energy on other things. Why cant all forms of alchemy be useful? It doesn't matter if its possible or not, its the journey down the road of transformation that makes it worth while. Also for Harry Potter, isn't Dumbledore supposed to be Hermes? Even though the little girl has a feminine version of Hermes? If so he is a lousy Hermes :[

JDP
12-13-2016, 05:21 PM
For me Alchemy is the art of transforming or transmuting something from a non useful state, to a useful one. It does not necessarily have to transform one form of matter into another. I do however believe it is possible to transmute physical substances, I just tend to focus my energy on other things. Why cant all forms of alchemy be useful? It doesn't matter if its possible or not, its the journey down the road of transformation that makes it worth while. Also for Harry Potter, isn't Dumbledore supposed to be Hermes? Even though the little girl has a feminine version of Hermes? If so he is a lousy Hermes :[

The thing is that there are not "many forms of alchemy" but one and only one: viz. making the Stone/Elixir. Everything else are just misinterpretations of the subject and NOT alchemy.

ArcherSage
12-13-2016, 06:55 PM
Again I remind you that something does not need to be called "alchemy" to be regarding as an expression of transmutation. Alchemy is not new, and has existed for thousands of years. Not just the physical form, but all forms. The true alchemist must work with all the elements including ether, the non physical substance which is the true gem of alchemy. Regardless of which "type" you practice, you must dabble with spiritual substance or the work is in vein. By the way I have a question, how do you know that the alchemists were referring to a literal stone? Why do so many texts describe it in different ways? Indeed even the great alchemists themselves disagreed on what the stone actually was, and the origin of the craft. And please tell me how we all misinterpret the meanings, I take it only you have the true meaning?

zoas23
12-13-2016, 09:06 PM
The thing is that there are not "many forms of alchemy" but one and only one: viz. making the Stone/Elixir. Everything else are just misinterpretations of the subject and NOT alchemy.

We are all here (maybe there are exceptions) more familiar with European alchemy (and sometimes a bit of Islamic/Arabic)... but have in mind that Chinese Alchemy valued more the "health benefits" than making gold... and that the "inner alchemy" was certainly as important as the external one.

The Islamic tradition shows an equal interest in metallic transmutations and creating medicines (which were often not an "Universal Elixir", but medicines for a specific disease).

I would say that the idea that there are not "many forms" of alchemy is false... of course, such thing doesn't lead to the opposite opinion in which probably anything is "alchemy"...

But if we get really classical, then there are many forms of alchemy and some of them are completely unrelated to the transmutation of metals.
(And you are a true scholar when it comes to the history of alchemy, maybe the best one in the forum, so I would be surprised if you deny these facts).

JDP
12-13-2016, 10:18 PM
We are all here (maybe there are exceptions) more familiar with European alchemy (and sometimes a bit of Islamic/Arabic)... but have in mind that Chinese Alchemy valued more the "health benefits" than making gold... and that the "inner alchemy" was certainly as important as the external one.

The Islamic tradition shows an equal interest in metallic transmutations and creating medicines (which were often not an "Universal Elixir", but medicines for a specific disease).

I would say that the idea that there are not "many forms" of alchemy is false... of course, such thing doesn't lead to the opposite opinion in which probably anything is "alchemy"...

But if we get really classical, then there are many forms of alchemy and some of them are completely unrelated to the transmutation of metals.
(And you are a true scholar when it comes to the history of alchemy, maybe the best one in the forum, so I would be surprised if you deny these facts).

I don't deny the medicinal/longevity aspect, as that is testified in the old literature as well, particularly the Chinese one (as you point out), but there never was any such thing as an "inner" or "spiritual" alchemy, not in the sense of the 19th-20th century reinterpretations of alchemy, including those of Jung and his followers. Alchemy always had those two very physical and tangible goals in mind: metallic transmutation & medicine/longevity.

zoas23
12-13-2016, 10:43 PM
I don't deny the medicinal/longevity aspect, as that is testified in the old literature as well, particularly the Chinese one (as you point out), but there never was any such thing as an "inner" or "spiritual" alchemy, not in the sense of the 19th-20th century reinterpretations of alchemy, including those of Jung and his followers. Alchemy always had those two very physical and tangible goals in mind: metallic transmutation & medicine/longevity.

When it comes to China, the idea of an "inner alchemy" is not a "new age" thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neidan
Of course, this is 100% unrelated to Jung (whom I find completely absurd).

JDP
12-13-2016, 11:11 PM
When it comes to China, the idea of an "inner alchemy" is not a "new age" thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neidan
Of course, this is 100% unrelated to Jung (whom I find completely absurd).

I am very skeptical of this whole idea of "Neidan". It sounds to me mostly like still relatively modern misinterpretations of alchemy. The fact that the "Kinship of the Three" text is being cited as the "foundation" of this supposed "internal alchemy" pretty much shows this. The author of that book plainly talks about operations with substances in order to obtain the "Elixir", he is not talking about "meditations". The whole "Neidan" concept seems to have been born out of the frustration of some people when they tried to prepare the Elixir and did not succeed, eventually causing them to try to achieve it by other means. Notice, by the way, that the goal of this "Neidan" misinterpretation of alchemy is still in fact the very physical and tangible goals of longevity and medicine. This has little to do with the Western "spiritual" and psychological misinterpretations of alchemy in the 19th-20th centuries.

Kiorionis
12-14-2016, 12:53 AM
The whole "Neidan" concept seems to have been born out of the frustration of some people when they tried to prepare the Elixir and did not succeed, eventually causing them to try to achieve it by other means.

True, and/or "Neidan" has suffered the same fate as a lot of Chinese concepts when translated -- that the English concept doesn't fit, and we're stuck with a terrible definition, which is then promoted as being "100% accurate" to what was originally trying to be portrayed.

But, I can easily see the point of this thread being the statement that if all 12 of these essential "cell salts" are included, then longevity and health are achieved without the need for any complex meditation routines.

Voltaire
12-14-2016, 01:02 AM
True, and/or "Neidan" has suffered the same fate as a lot of Chinese concepts when translated -- that the English concept doesn't fit, and we're stuck with a terrible definition, which is then promoted as being "100% accurate" to what was originally trying to be portrayed.

But, I can easily see the point of this thread being the statement that if all 12 of these essential "cell salts" are included, then longevity and health are achieved without the need for any complex meditation routines.



the 12 cell salts relate to the 12 zodiacal signs; you're right, when they are all in place you get longevity of life,
meditation comes after this (when your body is complete and performing fully, you use your mind (through meditation) to turn your soul (a type of light) into a purer brighter form of itself (take off some of the filters we get trapped behind in the human vessel))
as well as other stuff, like raising the oil from your epididymus into your epithalmus

Kiorionis
12-14-2016, 01:28 AM
Interesting stuff, but I've heard much more about the 12 alchemical processes which correspond to each zodiac sign (Cancer as dissolution, Leo as digestion, etc).

I suppose my main question is, what do each of these "cell salts" represent? What is their specific action on our physiology? How do you determine which ones you need and in what dosage to achieve the end result that is beong promoted? Does the natal chart of the individual come into play or is it a "one size fits all" approach?

It's all well and good to say that we need them to bring the body back into balance and completion, but why?

:)

Voltaire
12-24-2016, 12:05 AM
Interesting stuff, but I've heard much more about the 12 alchemical processes which correspond to each zodiac sign (Cancer as dissolution, Leo as digestion, etc).


There are both.
Each cell salt relates to a zodiacal sign. Each alchemical process corresponds to a zodiacal sign.
As it's an esoteric art, there are many different meanings for every one thing.



I suppose my main question is, what do each of these "cell salts" represent? What is their specific action on our physiology? How do you determine which ones you need and in what dosage to achieve the end result that is beong promoted? Does the natal chart of the individual come into play or is it a "one size fits all" approach?

It's all well and good to say that we need them to bring the body back into balance and completion, but why?

:)

They each represent a part of the body and a sign of the zodiac, a part of our biochemical process, and each have their own impacts on our physiology.

You determine which ones you need by your birth chart.
In the 9 months in the womb your body will develop 9 different ways to generate and metabolise these cell salts, with the 3 months you are not inside the womb being the ones you miss out on.
So yes, your birth chart comes heavily into play on this: depending on when you are born depends on which ones you are "missing" effectively.

For example:
someone born in January would have been conceived the previous April.
The three months they missed out on would therefore be (part of January), February, March, and April.
This means you will be deficient in those cell salts, and would need to provide extra supliment of them in your diet, in order to complete your natural "balance" or biochemical palette.

Each cell salt deficiency comes with its own different causes and symptoms; ranging from skin defects, to cell degeneration.
(Imagine that you are a car, your body is an engine, and you are the driver.
Some cell salts are like wiper fluid. Some are brake fluid, and some are engine oil.
In a small timeframe, not having enough of one of these doesn't have too negative an effect;
Some poeple don't have enough wiper fluid and they get skin problems;
Some people don't have enough brake fluid and their muscles cramp easily;
but in the longterm over the course of your lifetime, your body would be like an engine slowly running out of oil. It would have a heavy impact on all the other parts of the engine, and once you get to 35-40 and your body slowly starts to stop uptaking new nutrients, you slowly move towards egine failure and death.)

Now I don't believe these salts would completely prevent death: but would extend life by maybe decades, and give you a complete foundation to perform other activities with.
This is why the philosopher's stone is the "foundation" of these works.

All your questions can be answered by the information found in the videos and books provided.
As well as a lot of other information not included here.

Kiorionis
12-24-2016, 03:36 AM
As well as a lot of other information not included here.

Right, this is the info I'm interested in.

Voltaire
12-24-2016, 04:51 AM
Right, this is the info I'm interested in.

I understand skepticism, and I shared it at one point.
Now I get how this related to the great work.
Your cells need certain compounds to function. The 3 months out of the womb as discussed before causes those cells to lack certain essential ingredients.
Adding them not only benefits the cells in mytosis, but allows for a lot of stress to be taken off the mind and body by not having to re-allocate resources all the time.
This also helps to regulate many different functions of the body, and "connects" you to your micro and macro self: your core components, and the solar system (as above, so below).


I'd also advise looking at diet: a lot of foods contain heavy metals, in order to "slow you down" and "clog you up", and water contains flouride to "switch you off".

Cell salts + perfectly balanced and healthy diet + pure water )with added organic minerals) = the perfect vessel