View Full Version : Was Saturn actually our Sun before the Sun pulled us into its orbit?

12-12-2016, 11:43 PM

I'm not sure if it's able to be proven, but this would explain the mythology of Saturn "eating" its children, and The Modern Alchemist (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQAcxunB4Xycl5NwriYxx6w/search?query=saturn) explains that when a God of the Elohim married a sibling, it's actually a planet's relationship to its Moon.

An interesting theory, but I can't verify if it's fact or fiction

05-02-2017, 11:15 PM
Saturn still is the Sun, our black Sun!

True Initiate
08-04-2017, 10:46 PM
For more in depth study on this interesting topic i recommend:


08-05-2017, 11:24 AM
To be more precise Saturn is the mountain in which is hidden our sun speaking in alchemical terms.

Astrologically the ancient astronomers believed the planets rotated around the Earth and the furthest planet that they were aware of was Saturn which they considered the 7th planet. Saturn therefore was in the seventh and highest heaven. They called Saturn the true sun or dark sun but they were mistaken. This dark sun should not be confused with the black sun the true occultists venerate, being the sun within the sun.

True Initiate
08-05-2017, 06:12 PM
There are few competing theories today that's for sure. My way of doing it is to study them all and see what makes sense.

08-14-2017, 07:43 PM
Saturn was definitely not the Sun, but it is the oldest planet in Solar system.

Saturn still is the Sun, our black Sun!
Black Sun is called black, because it is veiled/invisible. It is hidden in physical Sun, but can't be seen through the matter of this world. Some say that physical Sun of Solar System reflects light from actual invisible Sun in the Center of the Universe, but I think it should be understood slightly metaphorically and there is definitely a powerful invisible Force hidden in Sun, people can't see it but they can feel it and attune to it.

Greg Marcus
02-11-2019, 07:29 PM
It is Jupiter that is considered a "failed star", and in older astrology it was exalted above the Sun as "king of heaven". (back when the 36 'decans' were a going concern)

Saturn is Chronos, the time keeper. It "visits" you again in middle age ~30 years old, and again in old age ~60 years old (meaning its returns back to the same "degree" as where it was when you were born.)

Saturn and the babies is the source of the "new year" baby that greets.. the new year. (Saturn eats the baby to avoid being usurped)

02-12-2019, 01:50 AM
There's a 1975 textbook by NASA they discontinued with a reference to a dead star within our solar system. If you can dig it out it's pretty damning.
but then again no body but Newton talked about the moon magically speeding up.

02-12-2019, 03:34 AM
You may be thinking of the word Saturn which in ancient times represented what we now call the Sun (or Sola). This from John Owen in 1825 (The Works of John Owen Volume 9, Page 379):

They offered their children as burnt sacrifices to Moloch, that is, to the Saturn of the Tyrians; not to the planet of that name; not to the Father of the Cretan Jupiter; but to the Saturn of the Tyrians, that is, to Baal, or to the sun; and not by making them to pass between two fires for purification, as some think, but by burning them in the manner of a whole burnt-offering.

Greg Marcus
03-11-2019, 08:24 PM
I just read this today on the 'Élus Coëns Original - Canada' page on FB today. I don't even know how i ended up there:

Original EC Theurgy: Saturn vs. the Sun:

Another unique trait and major difference between Pasqually's Original EC system and that of Ambelain's and other schools of western theurgy is his emphasis on the spiritual importance of Saturn. Whereas, following the astrological tradition, Saturn in most western magical systems is generally viewed as a constraining and negative influence, in Pasqually's system, Saturn is considered a purer higher spiritual influence than all the other planets; including the Sun. In fact, when one reads the original archives, one is surprised at the absence of positive references to the Sun. Though it is true that Light is used extensively in EC ritual, it is rarely associated to the Sun itself, and usually represents the Holy Spirit as in the New Light and Candle Purification rituals. Even the Orient is not so important because it is the place of the rising Sun, like in Freemasonry, but rather because it is referred to as the spiritual centre of the Universe or axis and equated with the presence of God.

This means quite surprisingly that the original EC system is not Solar Centric. A major departure from many Rosicrucian/Golden Dawn/Thelemic based modern systems.

This unique characteristic of the Original EC System, may be due to its southern origin. As we have said before, the south is the place of most heat and is viewed by Pasqually as the place of evil spirits, as opposed to the North, which is the quarter of greatest darkness and rest from the blazing heat. The Sun is therefore a reminder of the scorching flames of hell. In addition, Pasqually treats Saturday as the first day of the week and as the holiest day and consequently most of his Operations are prescribed either to be performed on Saturday or Wednesday (as opposed to Ambelain who prescribed Sundays for the performance of most his "Cohen" rituals).

Here is a translation of a quote from the Original Grand Maître/Architecte degree which exemplifies this spiritual emphasis on Saturn:

“Saturn “is the greatest planet and the most elevated amongst all the others…This planet not only dominates all others in the material realms, and even in the spiritual realms, she contains in her the universal divine spirit, which renders her more eminent than any of the other seven temporal planets which we know, and this because of her celestial principle, the extent of her surface area which is revealed to the earth, and because the pre-eminence of her tittle.”