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Amon
12-14-2016, 11:59 AM
I would like to know if the metal disk used for calcination in the post below:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/steve_kalec.html

is of the same material as the cooking saucepans and the like. I am planning to use a saucepan from now on but i want to be sure its not gonna react with the metal.

elixirmixer
12-14-2016, 09:28 PM
You should at least use a 304 Stainless Steel (most common cooking pot) preferably a 310 SS, and ideally a 316 SS product, 316 having greater oxidation resistance at high temperatures (marine steel)

Steve K does not discribe his calcination bowl.

Schmuldvich
12-14-2016, 09:48 PM
Why would you consider using [any kind of] metal in your Alchemy experiments?

I suggest using no metal surfaces or vessels at all. Use glass instead.

Why do you want to use metal?

Andro
12-14-2016, 10:36 PM
I suggest using no metal surfaces or vessels at all. Use glass instead.

Why do you want to use metal?

Steve Kalec uses what looks like a metallic pan for his calcination.

http://www.logiclaw.co.uk/BOOKS/faust/faust/www.levity.com/alchemy/images/skalec01.jpg

This may work just fine for SPAGYRICAL calcination.

But ALCHEMICAL calcination is a different thing... It doesn't involve such fire, for starters.

Alchemical calcination is mostly effected by a body's own Radical Humidity OR by the Universal Humid Radical (either artfully isolated or via Sun & Moon exposure, IF the Sun & Moon are more or less equal in potency in your area - if, for example, the Sun is MUCH stronger, then dryness will be have the upper hand and the right 'Pondus' will not be achieved). Also see THIS (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4624-How-to-begin....&p=41574#post41574).

Continuous cycles of Wetting & Drying, in more 'simple' terms...

--------------------------------------------------

Schmuldvich
12-14-2016, 10:48 PM
This may work just fine for SPAGYRICAL calcination.

But ALCHEMICAL calcination is a different thing... It doesn't involve such fire, for starters.

Thanks, I am familiar with the images.

This being posted in "Practical Alchemy" led me to believe Amon was asking about using metal in an Alchemical preparation. If so, I highly recommend against using any kind of metal vessel in your experiments. Glass is better, and with today's technology Pyrex is not very costly as it was hundreds of years ago.

Are you working with herbs, Amon, or are you attempting to complete the Great Work (Magnum Opus)?

Andro
12-14-2016, 10:53 PM
This being posted in "Practical Alchemy" led me to believe Amon was asking about using metal in an Alchemical preparation.

It was posted under 'Equipment' (which applies to all practical lab approaches) - but because of Amon's mention of Steve Kalec's method, I think it's safe to assume that Spagyrical calcination is the case here... at least as the first step...

Amon
12-14-2016, 11:38 PM
Thanks, I am familiar with the images.

This being posted in "Practical Alchemy" led me to believe Amon was asking about using metal in an Alchemical preparation. If so, I highly recommend against using any kind of metal vessel in your experiments. Glass is better, and with today's technology Pyrex is not very costly as it was hundreds of years ago.

Are you working with herbs, Amon, or are you attempting to complete the Great Work (Magnum Opus)?

I am currently attempting to make a rosemary elixir (i have made a relevant post under the spagyrics section) and i was using a silicone cup for calcinations until another member pointed out that a silicon cup is not the best option to go with and suggested a fireproof porcelain dish. I got one from the supermarket and exposed it to an open gas flame but it exploded after a few minutes. All i currently have left to try are a pyrex boiling flask and common cooking saucepans. I am not confident that the boiling flask will resist an open naked flame.

elixirmixer
12-15-2016, 04:04 AM
Yeah I've had a lot of Pyrex dish explosions, while theoretically the best option; common practise would sometime disagree as glass being ideal, particularly for the amateur Tincturman (just made that word up and totally 'coining' it), because after potentially weeks of patient excitement, all can be lost in a moment when your Pyrex decides to not behave nearly as well as you would have grown to expect Pyrex to behave. I've had a drop of sweat fall on the dish and shatter 6 weeks work into oblivion.

Go hard son with the pot if it's all you've got. It's not 'The Stone'. Metal will be fine for your rosemary elixir and she will cute most any flu if done well.

Good luck.

If I were you, I'd try and push it all the way that Steve Kalec has, has the volatized salts are of the greatest forms of herbal medicine....

Rosemary oil can be purchased reasonably cheap online, and if sourced from a trusted manufactured, will be every bit as 'philosophical' as you will need.

IMO it's mainly the mercury and salts that need to be prepared personally. IMO.

(Because these oils are made the same way anyway, hydro-distillation)

I'm jealous, I want to be making elixirs but the house is undergoing serious renovations and the lab is almost out of action except that I just started my first rough trial run of 'the magnum sweet sweet' ... You know what I mean :cool:

JDP
12-15-2016, 05:53 AM
I am currently attempting to make a rosemary elixir (i have made a relevant post under the spagyrics section) and i was using a silicone cup for calcinations until another member pointed out that a silicon cup is not the best option to go with and suggested a fireproof porcelain dish. I got one from the supermarket and exposed it to an open gas flame but it exploded after a few minutes. All i currently have left to try are a pyrex boiling flask and common cooking saucepans. I am not confident that the boiling flask will resist an open naked flame.

For what you are trying to do (i.e. calcining plants in the open air) iron or steel dishes work just fine, you don't need anything more fanciful. Metal dishes have the advantage that they will resist thermal shock without any problem, so you can just place them from being at room-temperature to being on top of a wood, charcoal or gas fire without any problem. But if you want to calcine more corrosive materials that will affect metals, like salts, or making some metal oxides that attack metals, for example, then you will need refractory clay dishes, and you should only gradually increase the temperature when using them, do not expose them from room-temperature directly to an open flame or what happened to your "fireproof porcelain dish" might happen again. Ceramics need to be heated gradually, slowly, not given huge sudden thermal shocks. Even the best refractory materials can fail if you give them such a harsh change of temperature all of a sudden. This is even more so the larger the ceramic pieces are. If you don't have a furnace/kiln to carry out the calcinations in, you need to first heat the ceramic dishes at milder temperatures, like those of an electric heating plate. By slowly increasing the temperature you will get them hot enough to be moved on top of a YELLOW flame of a gas burner with less danger of the ceramic material developing cracks or shattering. Then you can start to slowly increase the temperature of the gas flame to BLUE in order to get the ceramic red hot.

Amon
12-15-2016, 05:28 PM
Yeah I've had a lot of Pyrex dish explosions, while theoretically the best option; common practise would sometime disagree as glass being ideal, particularly for the amateur Tincturman (just made that word up and totally 'coining' it), because after potentially weeks of patient excitement, all can be lost in a moment when your Pyrex decides to not behave nearly as well as you would have grown to expect Pyrex to behave. I've had a drop of sweat fall on the dish and shatter 6 weeks work into oblivion.

Go hard son with the pot if it's all you've got. It's not 'The Stone'. Metal will be fine for your rosemary elixir and she will cute most any flu if done well.

Good luck.

If I were you, I'd try and push it all the way that Steve Kalec has, has the volatized salts are of the greatest forms of herbal medicine....

Rosemary oil can be purchased reasonably cheap online, and if sourced from a trusted manufactured, will be every bit as 'philosophical' as you will need.

IMO it's mainly the mercury and salts that need to be prepared personally. IMO.

(Because these oils are made the same way anyway, hydro-distillation)

I'm jealous, I want to be making elixirs but the house is undergoing serious renovations and the lab is almost out of action except that I just started my first rough trial run of 'the magnum sweet sweet' ... You know what I mean :cool:

I am planning on extracting the Sulphur together with the Mercury. I am gonna use the Spirit (Mercury) of Dionysus to draw off the Sulphur, only problem is the God of the communists has deemed such an act as "sinful" and therefore "severely" punished which makes the acquisition of said Spirit a rough task that i will have to improvise to pull off.

Andro
12-15-2016, 07:02 PM
I am gonna use the Spirit (Mercury) of Dionysus to draw off the Sulphur, only problem is the God of the communists has deemed such an act as "sinful" and therefore "severely" punished which makes the acquisition of said Spirit a rough task that i will have to improvise to pull off.

If you're referring to SV (Alcohol from grapes/wine), you can distill it yourself from wine or brandy... Are those legal to purchase in your area? I'm sure there a few threads here about distilling SV...

zoas23
12-15-2016, 07:28 PM
But if you want to calcine more corrosive materials that will affect metals, like salts, or making some metal oxides that attack metals, for example, then you will need refractory clay dishes, and you should only gradually increase the temperature when using them, do not expose them from room-temperature directly to an open flame or what happened to your "fireproof porcelain dish" might happen again. Ceramics need to be heated gradually, slowly, not given huge sudden thermal shocks. Even the best refractory materials can fail if you give them such a harsh change of temperature all of a sudden. This is even more so the larger the ceramic pieces are. If you don't have a furnace/kiln to carry out the calcinations in, you need to first heat the ceramic dishes at milder temperatures, like those of an electric heating plate. By slowly increasing the temperature you will get them hot enough to be moved on top of a YELLOW flame of a gas burner with less danger of the ceramic material developing cracks or shattering. Then you can start to slowly increase the temperature of the gas flame to BLUE in order to get the ceramic red hot.

My experience with ceramic is:
A) CERAMIC THING I BOUGHT AT THE SUPERMARKET: without caring how many precautions I have, I always end up with a crack in the ceramic... it may not happen in the first time, sometimes they last for 10 uses (though usually it is less)... and they break... even if the increase and decrease of temperature has been VERY gradual.

B) CERAMIC THING I BOUGHT AT THE LAB EQUIPMENT SUPPLIER: it can be a crucible, a capsule, etc... They don't break even if I am not cautious at all.

This is me and a friend doing something with a porcelain crucible (it didn't have any vegetable materials, but it's the same thing):

https://s24.postimg.org/433gu3q4l/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_12_15_a_las_3_54_31_p_m.p ng https://s24.postimg.org/4ekx6v6kl/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_12_15_a_las_3_53_55_p_m.p ng

(As you can see, it is "red hot" in the second picture and no flame is cooling it gradually... this crucible is probably 5 years old and it went through all the imaginable "aberrations" when it comes to heat... it doesn't even have a minor crack and it looks as if it was "new").

I'd say that if you have the chance of purchasing porcelain capsules made for lab use... you can use them without having any "caution"... whilst "supermarket dishes", "the porcelain dish that grandma had", etc... without caring how careful you are, they always end up breaking (maybe not the first time, but after using them a few times, they break).

... and when it comes to Lab equipment, the simple porcelain capsules and crucibles are super cheap (if you lived in my city, I would tell you which shop has big sized capsules... sometimes it is hard to find them bigger than 200 or 300 ML... but if you visit several shops, you may end up finding one with 500 ML capacity... and they don't break).

Amon
12-16-2016, 08:55 AM
I got a porcelain capsule from a lab supply store yesterday for 12 euros (which is kinda more than i was expecting).

Andro the reason i am talking about Spirit of Dionysus in code is ,again, because the God of the communists has deemed it illegal to possess

Andro
12-16-2016, 09:02 AM
Andro the reason i am talking about Spirit of Dionysus in code is ,again, because the God of the communists has deemed it illegal to possess

Is it possible that you're not even writing it explicitly because of Internet censorship in your country?

Would it be also illegal to share what country you live in?

There are people here from all over the world, maybe there are others from your area who can help with this issue...

zoas23
12-16-2016, 11:28 AM
I got a porcelain capsule from a lab supply store yesterday for 12 euros (which is kinda more than i was expecting).
Andro the reason i am talking about Spirit of Dionysus in code is ,again, because the God of the communists has deemed it illegal to possess

For some reason the cost of the equipment changes a lot from country to country. I can buy 3 or 4 dishes for 12 Euros here... BUT the glass equipment is a bit more expensive than what they pay in Europe and the USA. So each country has advantages and disadvantages.

I am confused about the issues that your place has with SV.

Amon
12-16-2016, 03:31 PM
Andro and zoas23 we don't really have net censorship here (Greece) as far as i am aware but possessing SV is illegal because "you can manufacture a bunch of dangerous stuff" as they informed me in a liquor store who asked for 42 euros to give me half a litre of high grade SV. The reason i speak in code is cause i am getting a bit paranoid. Plus, its actually fun :D As for how i will aquire it, i have almost made a draft setup that i think is good enough to draw out the SV and potentially rectify it later on. The only problem that remains is the temprature regulation.

Andro
12-16-2016, 04:15 PM
I think there are a few people from Greece around here...


The only problem that remains is the temperature regulation.

When we made our first SV from wine barrel leftovers (I definitely recommend home-made SV rather than store-bought), we used a common gas stove and a thermometer, and adjusted the flame/heat manually.

Amon
12-16-2016, 05:43 PM
I think there are a few people from Greece around here...



When we made our first SV from wine barrel leftovers (I definitely recommend home-made SV rather than store-bought), we used a common gas stove and a thermometer, and adjusted the flame/heat manually.

By the way i got some cork stuck inside the copper tube (dont ask how), will it pose a problem? Fluids can still run through the tube.