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Axismundi000
12-29-2016, 08:36 PM
Twice freeze concentrated vinegar was added to cassiterite and left to form tin acetate. The liquid was decanted and evaporated, fresh rainwater (6 litres) was steadily added and also evaporated to remove any remaining acetic acid. The remaining liquid was evaporated until a thick oil remained and Kerkrings menstruum was added which formed a layer on top of the acetate oil.

http://i68.tinypic.com/28wcntl.jpg

This was incubated and the Kerkrings menstruum looked the same colour as the oil, 97-98% alcohol was added and this diluted the upper layer which showed that it had remained discreet from the oil.

http://i68.tinypic.com/25iyrk6.jpg

The alcohol was decanted from the oil and evaporated in an open container in my incubator, I covered the top of the container with kitchen roll held in place with an elastic band, it did not contact the oil but became stained by the evaporating vapour.

http://i64.tinypic.com/2rrbc5z.jpg

The final oil smells kind of like the vegetable spreads put on bread, marmite or Vegemite type smell. Here it is compared to the previous Cerrusite (lead carbonate )oil I did s different way.

http://i63.tinypic.com/28vu8wk.jpg

For the lead I used a more complex method which I will also try with my second batch of tin acetate from cassiterite.

Because the previous attempt failed I did something much simpler from Robert Bartlett's Real Alchemy. I will try the more advanced method I tried before with my next batch of tin acetate.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4886-Lead-Acetate-oil-and-Kerkrings-menstruum

Perhaps then I will have a go at dry distillation of acetates. Has anyone else tried this simpler stuff?

Schmuldvich
12-29-2016, 08:42 PM
Nice pictures!

What do you plan to use it for?

Axismundi000
12-29-2016, 09:04 PM
I'm not sure it has a use. I see this work as developmental, this is a stepping stone to more complex stuff. Have other people tried these simpler things before doing the more advanced acetate works?

elixirmixer
12-29-2016, 11:49 PM
What do you mean specifically by 'more advanced acetate works?'

Axismundi000
12-30-2016, 12:40 AM
As I mentioned in previous posts dry distilling metal acetates is in practical terms a much more advanced thing. This stuff is working towards that. I'm getting the impression that doing these easier processes to develop lab skills is unusual.

elixirmixer
12-31-2016, 09:45 PM
I wouldn't say unusual, in fact it is highly recommended in spagyrics to have a slow steady progression from basic to more complex works, or at least R. Bartlett seems to give that impression, but I do think that Alchemists don't always follow these rules and usually just do whatever experiment it may be, simply because they desire the results of that thing.

What your doing is defiantly a good learning step, you've shown me some things to by doing this, such as showin me a use for Kerkruums menstrum

Axismundi000
01-01-2017, 12:44 PM
It could be that for some, jumping straight into more exacting lab method is part of the spiritual quest. For me safety and the 6P rule is preferred.

Amon
01-01-2017, 01:32 PM
I have been meaning to ask this question for quite sometime. Why are you using materials that belong to the plant realm onto the mineral realm? I know alchemists have done so many times again and again but if i recall correctly that shouldn't be done. On the other hand, we are using plant and mineral entities upon animals. But i have this abstract notion that inter-realm mixing is not good (i think i read it somewhere but am not quite sure)

Axismundi000
01-01-2017, 05:54 PM
There is a whole paradigm for Acetate Alchemy which involves the idea that the metal and the plant realm mix together and the plant energies help to accelerate the evolution of the the metal. So the mixing of the plant and metal: plant fermentation to alcohol which is soured to vinegar which is added to the mineral to make acetate. The acetate is the plant and mineral conjoined. The lab processes after this can be complex and exacting so I am starting with the easier ones.

My reservation with all this is the huge quantities of vinegar needed to make sufficient acetate, it seems labour intensive so I am still just exploring the basics currently.

In modern material Jean Dubuis volumes and Robert Bartlett's two books explain the rational of how the 'plant realm' can evolve the mineral.

elixirmixer
01-01-2017, 09:21 PM
Axis is right. The acetate path is the mechanising of 'sulphuric' 'energy signatures' (chemistry would simply refer to this as quantum mechanics or even atomic physics (real chemistry is actually a lot more complicated than high school makes it appear.)) of the metal realm, ie: oil of tin (sulphur of tin). This energy signature is becoming conjoined with an acetic acid molecule (very bio absorbent I'm lead to believe) while having removed the 'salt' of the metal (since most salt of metals are quite toxic, these are removed completely during preparation of these materials.

I have been experimenting with high doses of these materials recently and will share my experience in the appropriate thread.

We also see, actually, that often we are using metals IN THEIR MINERAL FORM. Not their METALLIC form, ie: tin OXIDE is a mineral, while tin is a metal.

It moves these energies from aether, the 'prima earth', metal, mineral, acetate, animal, human. Acetate can be diluted into quintessence of honey to move it from it's acetate realm into the realm of animals.

What I would like to know, Axis, is there a difference with how you did this process and the lead process?

Axismundi000
01-01-2017, 11:33 PM
Yes

I let the acetate oil get so thick the Kerkrings menstruum sits on top and oils rise up into it. The acetate in this case tin acetate remains intact in the lower layer, I then decant off the upper alcohol that oils have migrated up into and gently evaporate. This is an exceedingly simple procedure.

When I go back to keeping the acetate watery so that it is a reagent and facilitates the alcohol breaking open the acetate so the metal precipitates, I will vacuum distil to avoid thermal decomposition. My next batch of Kerkrings menstruum is not yet ready so I must wait.

If I get that working I will start looking at dry distillation assuming the massive vinegar production is feasible.