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Vlad
02-09-2009, 06:54 PM
There is a method for producing a white powder from gold and silver (if kept in the dark) by taking some NaCl (not for silver) and H2O2, and letting it react with the powdered metal or leaf. A white fluffy powder slowly forms and falls out of solution. It's not fast and immediate. Several people have gotten this to work but for me it never has though.
Others have used ammonium chloride instead of sodium chloride and this supposedly goes faster.

For silver, use a nitrate salt like ammonium nitrate or potassium nitrate. In darkness.

Salazius
02-10-2009, 10:06 AM
Hi, thanks for the infos, i'm still pondering the matter of ormus etc in my mind... here in France we are nor really accustom to that...

Why do you have to keep that into darkness and not to sunlight ?
What happens if you put it into sunlight ? And moon light ?

Vlad
02-10-2009, 11:29 AM
I think it was because if you kept the silver in light, it gave a black silver oxide powder, or the reaction wouldn't work. I don't know if moonlight is ok. I think total darkness.

Salazius
02-10-2009, 11:40 AM
Oxidation, that's great, black stage !

solomon levi
02-10-2009, 11:30 PM
Hudson's m-state precipitate supposedly exploded when dried in the sun -
like fulminating gold/silver.

solomon levi
02-10-2009, 11:31 PM
There is a method for producing a white powder from gold and silver (if kept in the dark) by taking some NaCl (not for silver) and H2O2, and letting it react with the powdered metal or leaf. A white fluffy powder slowly forms and falls out of solution. It's not fast and immediate. Several people have gotten this to work but for me it never has though.
Others have used ammonium chloride instead of sodium chloride and this supposedly goes faster.

For silver, use a nitrate salt like ammonium nitrate or potassium nitrate. In darkness.

No HCl with the H2O2 and salt?

Vlad
02-11-2009, 11:07 AM
No HCl.

theFool
03-14-2009, 01:03 PM
There is another method with gold and salt that produces calx of gold. You only have to calcine to redness gold with common salt, let it cool, and repeat the calcination for many times.
I've never tried it but the source is credible (Bartlett).

solomon levi
08-05-2009, 09:33 PM
I found notes on this process today and decided to give it a try.
The silver begins to dissolve with lots of bubbles given off - very dramatically.
The gold is more stubborn. I was looking for the same reaction but didn't
see it, so I thought it made sense to ad some nitre to the gold one too to
make a simulated aqua regia. The gold has bubbles on it that float off
occasionally, but it's very slow. I'm heating now to see if it speeds things up.

Oh - I'm using the metals (pieces of coins) too - not powder or flake.
And I'm using 35% H2O2, potassium nitrate, sodium chloride.

I'm doing small amounts - like an inch of H2O2 in the bottom of a beer bottle,
and just like 1/4 to 1/2 tsp of salts.

solomon

solomon levi
08-07-2009, 11:43 PM
No white powder yet. I'm just happy that this dissolves the metals.
The gold began to bubble much more profusely after heating, but only
for a day and then finished. Even tried adding more salts but nothing.
The silver, on the other hand is still fizzing!
Perhaps a key is to not smother the solution with salts.


Be careful if you add H2O2 to sulfur...
I added some to stibium powder. It was quiet at first and I was
trying to take a photo and it started to rumble in my hand.
I ran for the door and barely got it outside before hydrogen sulfide gas
filled the room! It didn't overflow though - just lots of gas.
In fact, it totally converted the sulfide into the oxide - from black to white powder.

This may be an alternative to fire calcination - not sure if it is killed in the process.

solomon

solomon levi
08-08-2009, 03:16 AM
Pics:
http://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/12/78/17/61/th/h2o2_010.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=112&u=12781761)

http://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/12/78/17/61/th/h2o2_011.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=113&u=12781761)

solomon levi
08-08-2009, 03:29 AM
Here's a pic of the stibium after reaction:

http://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/12/78/17/61/th/h2o2_016.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=118&u=12781761)

Joshua
08-19-2009, 10:52 PM
Yes, these are experiements that I did several years ago. It takes a good while to get gold powder that way. It is not fast, but it is a continual dissagregation reaction. I speculated that the chlorine is just free enough to act as a chlorine donor for the "aqua regia" but it is not free enough to bond permanently with the gold, so the gold immediately drops back towards a metal. Cycle repeats and gold finds stability in smaller and smaller colloid size until it cannot be dissolved further.

Silver dissolves in straight h202 (though the nitrate seems to help) and appears to keep dissolving (bubble genesis in the solution) until it also finds a non-reactive form. A slow evaporation of this solution often provides a jellied form of silver, and when taken to dryness and annealed seems to provide a characteristic m-state response when bio-assayed.

solomon levi
08-20-2009, 07:53 PM
Thanks for the tips Joshua.