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Illen A. Cluf
01-13-2017, 10:38 PM
Some day, people will finally realize that the most fundamental truth to alchemy can be found in the early Arabic texts (which basically followed the oldest Greek texts). Everything since then has become distorted and far from the traditional paths. My opinion (based on knowledge) of course!

Andro
01-13-2017, 10:45 PM
Some day, people will finally realize that the most fundamental truth to alchemy can be found in the early Arabic texts (which basically followed the oldest Greek texts). Everything since then has become distorted and far from the traditional paths. My opinion (based on knowledge) of course!

Are there any such texts that you could/would recommend to the members/readers of this forum?

Illen A. Cluf
01-14-2017, 12:05 AM
Are there any such texts that you could/would recommend to the members/readers of this forum?

Yes - all the early Arabic texts (e.g. Jabir ibn Hayyan, Abu Bakr al-Razi, Al-Jildaki, Abu al-Qarim al-Iraqi, Muhammad ibn Umail).

Andro
01-14-2017, 10:18 AM
The early Arabic texts (which basically followed the oldest Greek texts).

Thanks.

Do you have any knowledge of such (alchemical) 'oldest Greek texts' that may have survived to this day?

Hellin Hermetist
01-14-2017, 11:56 AM
Thanks.

Do you have any knowledge of such (alchemical) 'oldest Greek texts' that may have survived to this day?

Platon's Timeaus, Aristotle's meteorologica, Zosimus corpus and some others.

ArcherSage
01-14-2017, 01:47 PM
The story of Alladin.

JDP
01-14-2017, 03:24 PM
Platon's Timeaus, Aristotle's meteorologica, Zosimus corpus and some others.

The first two are not exactly "alchemical", but they did have an influence on the subject, specially Aristotle's "Meteorologica".

Illen A. Cluf
01-14-2017, 03:28 PM
Thanks.

Do you have any knowledge of such (alchemical) 'oldest Greek texts' that may have survived to this day?

There are numerous Alchemical Arabic texts, many still in the British and Turkish Libraries, many still untranslated. Theodor Abt has translated several (a half dozen or so) of these into a series of books under the name "Corpus Alchemicum Arabicum". He also wrote separate books, such as "The Book of Pictures Mushaf as-suwar by Zosimos of Panopolis". You can find several of Jabir's (Geber or Jabbir Ibn-Hayyan) translations online, the best of which is "Summa Perfectionis Magisterii" ("The Height of the Perfection of Mastery"). There is also a book entitled "Three Arabic Treatises on Alchemy, Muhammad Bin Umail and M. Turab Ali", by Kessinger Publishing. There are several other sources, some in private collections, privately translated and funded at significant cost.

E.J. Holmyard also translated some of the Arabic alchemical works.

For Theodor Abt's books, see:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_15?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=corpus+alchemicum+arabicum&sprefix=corpus+alchemic%2Caps%2C155&crid=3FU6Q3M8ZG5T4

Here's a little more on Islamic Alchemy and some of the Arab alchemists:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy_and_chemistry_in_medieval_Islam

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/islam.html

Also:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/islam01.html

And:

https://explorable.com/islamic-alchemy

And:

http://islam.wikia.com/wiki/Alchemy_and_chemistry_in_medieval_Islam

And:

https://www.chemheritage.org/distillations/magazine/al-kimiya

Here''s some information on Islamic alchemical treatises stored at the National Library of Medicine in Maryland:

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/arabic/alchemy1.html

Here's a free translation of a Zosimos text in an Arabic Alchemy Book:

http://www.washacadsci.org/Journal/Journalarticles/ZosimosText.H.S.ElKhadem.pdf

Here's a free copy of: "Understanding the Language of Alchemy: The Medieval Arabic Alchemical Lexicon":

http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1011&context=ljsproceedings

For a free PDF of Geber's entire works (copy of 1686 translation):

https://archive.org/details/WorksOfGeber

Hope that's enough for a start :-)

JDP
01-14-2017, 03:39 PM
Thanks.

Do you have any knowledge of such (alchemical) 'oldest Greek texts' that may have survived to this day?

The oldest surviving alchemical texts in Greek seem to be the two "books" on silver and gold attributed to Democritus. These are tricky texts because even at this very early stage in the literature they are already plagued by patently phony processes (if taken wholly literally) and a barrage of "decknamen", not always easy to identify their real meaning. As a result, we find early Alexandrian alchemists already commenting on what "Democritus" actually meant by this or that.

Illen A. Cluf
01-14-2017, 04:41 PM
The oldest surviving alchemical texts in Greek seem to be the two "books" on silver and gold attributed to Democritus. These are tricky texts because even at this very early stage in the literature they are already plagued by patently phony processes (if taken wholly literally) and a barrage of "decknamen", not always easy to identify their real meaning. As a result, we find early Alexandrian alchemists already commenting on what "Democritus" actually meant by this or that.

Here is a transcription of the translated treatise by Democritus:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/steele_democritus.html

JDP
01-14-2017, 06:03 PM
Here is a transcription of the translated treatise by Democritus:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/steele_democritus.html

Unfortunately, that translation is marred with Steele's "interpretation" of what the processes in the book supposedly mean (and Steele interprets them as very vulgar chemical processes to make alloys and superficial colorations that more or less might imitate silver and gold; that's what this fellow thought "alchemy" was about!) A better translation has been published by the journal Ambix:

https://www.amazon.com/Four-Books-Pseudo-Democritus-Sources-Chemistry/dp/1909662283