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Shroomyx
01-27-2017, 08:21 PM
Greetings!

I've read about two basic methods to extract the sulfur from the salt while making a spagyric tincture. The first is simply using alcohol while the second needs yeast+water+sugar. To me the first methods sounds way easier and it doesnt contain the risk of getting methyl alcohol like the second does. But the second sounds more "natural" since the alcohol or mercury you need for the extraction is created in the mixture and not added from a different source. If you choose to use the second methods isnt it essential to distill the methanol first and put it away to purify your solution?
I'm a bit confused at the moment and would love to know if you have experiences with both methods or just use the simple first one?
Maybe I got something totally wrong here, if so, please correct me!



~Shroomyx

Axismundi000
01-28-2017, 09:45 AM
If you ferment the fresh herb with sugar and yeast you will need to distil the alcohol out of the 'wine'. Then when you rectify the alcohol the first time you do so put aside the first approx 10% of distillate to remove any methanol. When you distil the alcohol the milky residue that is left in the boiling flask is important but that goes further than your question.

Frater Albertus's Alchemists handbook gives a good method for employing pure alcohol and as long as you have a soxhlet makes the whole thing easier because you don't need to separate completely into Salt, Sulphur and Mercury.

NB: I suspect the slow response to this post is due to these basic Spagyrics being well publicised for example Frater Albertus Alchemist Handbook and Real Alchemy by Robert Bartlett.

Shroomyx
01-28-2017, 03:10 PM
Thank you anyways. I was hoping someone is experienced with both methods and could explain me the differences.


When you distil the alcohol the milky residue that is left in the boiling flask is important but that goes further than your question.

This is probably the information I was searching for. But if you say I will find enough answers in books I have to wait until mine arrives ;)

Kiorionis
01-28-2017, 04:16 PM
Thank you anyways. I was hoping someone is experienced with both methods and could explain me the differences.

There are two main differences, from what I've found out.

First, when yeast+water+sugar is fermented with the herb, the yeast will also consume other nutrient compounds (they don't live solely on sugar, unless it's the only thing available). If you're trying to preserve the herb's phytochemistry as much as possible, then it's a good idea to use an alcohol extraction. Traditionally, ethnobotanists would make alcohol tinctures to preserve plant chemistry in order to carry the herb back to their labs to examine them more closely.

Second, in the case of multiple herbs fermented together with yeast and sugar, there is always the chance of creating new and toxic compounds (especially in the case of medicinal herbs of the 2nd and 3rd class). In the herbal community, it's generally frowned upon to make a tincture through fermentation because of this reason.

Shroomyx
01-28-2017, 04:57 PM
That was helpful! I knew that there are more compunds consumed since methanol isnt a product of the simple fermentation of sugar. But I didnt knew that there will be other (toxic) compounds too.
Thank you very much.

Axismundi000
01-28-2017, 06:08 PM
I didn't know that yeast eats some of the plant also. I've never done more then one herb in a demijohn luckily. Yeast is considered a part animal simple organism, so Alchemically/spagirically it adds another factor because when the 'salt' and 'sulphur' are worked with yeast will be part of the material. So fresh herbs fermented in a demijohn must be a different thing to for example doing it with pure alcohol in a soxhlet. Interesting info thanks Kiorionis.

Kiorionis
01-28-2017, 06:57 PM
That was helpful!

No problem. I'm not saying that toxic chemicals are formed every time, I'm just saying it's a possibility.


I didn't know that yeast eats some of the plant also.

It's fairly common in home-brew forums to come across threads about 'natural yeast supplemention' -- usually raisins, because they're usually fairly high in natural tannins. But, tannins are not just found in grapes, plus it depends on the yeast species, and if there's any bacterial contamination on the plant in the first place.

Fermentation on sugar alone can sometimes end before you want it to, or produce an off-flavoured brew. Not so spagyrically relevant, but it's a good source of technical information on brewing.

Ghislain
01-29-2017, 12:07 AM
Just a side note...yeast turns sugar to alcohol, but alcohol kills yeast.

Yeast is suicidal ;)

Ghislain

Kiorionis
01-29-2017, 03:09 AM
Yeast is suicidal ;)

Ghislain

I suppose that's a good examale of sacrifice, philosophically.