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pierre
03-04-2017, 04:45 PM
Hi everyone....

Is there any indication of the reality of PS in the 21st century?
Did anyone in this forum know or knew of any current alchemists who possessed the stone?
Have we "lost" it in the course of time... maybe?

None of us are worthy of this donum dei, in the eyes of God?
Do we not have the necessary knowledge?
Did the past masters lied to us?

Why the "stone" is so elusive?

Best regards...

Illen A. Cluf
03-04-2017, 05:29 PM
Hi everyone....

Is there any indication of the reality of PS in the 21st century?
Did anyone in this forum know or knew of any current alchemists who possessed the stone?
Have we "lost" it in the course of time... maybe?

None of us are worthy of this donum dei, in the eyes of God?
Do we not have the necessary knowledge?
Did the past masters lied to us?

Why the "stone" is so elusive?

Best regards...

There are many today who claim to have made the PS - mostly by insinuation, but based on their descriptions or background, it is clear that they are far from the accomplishment. My own opinion is that not a single person in the World today (or even in more than the last 75 years) has made the Stone - even Canseliet, Fulcanelli's direct pupil, did not accomplish it. I do believe that an EXTREMELY small number of people are close. I also think that many so-called past Masters lied to us.

theFool
03-04-2017, 06:20 PM
Is there any indication of the reality of PS in the 21st century?
Good question. We could wonder also: what are the indications that it existed in the past centuries? Maybe we could discover some standards and apply them to the 21st century.
For example, we can check the way an "alchemist" has lived and died. If he died prematurely or died from a disease probably he was not accomplished. In theory, the Stone would allow him to live the whole span of his alloted years and die because of old age. Thus, "alchemists" who died early, probably didn't have the Stone.

Andro
03-04-2017, 07:16 PM
For example, we can check the way an "alchemist" has lived and died. If he died prematurely or died from a disease probably he was not accomplished. In theory, the Stone would allow him to live the whole span of his allotted years and die because of old age. Thus, "alchemists" who died early, probably didn't have the Stone.

Among those who didn't use pseudonyms, St. Didier (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limojon_de_Saint-Didier) died before 60 - although allegedly by shipwreck...

Also, if Starkey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Starkey) WAS indeed Philalethes, he died of the plague before 40.


I also think that many so-called past Masters lied to us.

In this regard, I think there's not much difference between today and the past who-knows-how-many centuries.

Liars, boasters and master-wannabees have always been common.

Personally, my opinion is that no genuine adept (who has completed the truly universal 'stone') ever wrote a book himself.

Traditionally, it is not uncommon for the task of book-writing to be assigned to one of the 'preferred' disciples.

I'm not talking here about the variety of 'puffers' with their alembics, retorts, distillations and sophisticated glassware - the very thought of it gives me a headache.

They may have produced excellent medicines, I'm not discarding it, but not THE stone.

zoas23
03-04-2017, 09:56 PM
Among those who didn't use pseudonyms, St. Didier (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limojon_de_Saint-Didier) died before 60 - although allegedly by shipwreck...

Also, if Starkey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Starkey) WAS indeed Philalethes, he died of the plague before 40.

You mentioned the Early R+C texts (after the 3 "foundational" texts)... what is constant in them is the rejection of the world and the desire to die.
I.e, Daniel Cramer in his 40 (later expanded to 50) Emblems was obsessed with "leaving this world".
The Speculum Sophicum Rhodostauricum expresses the same obsession.

LOL... I think a lot of alchemists were not looking for a long life at all.
(An idea that won't sound TOO weird for you, or that's my guess).

pierre
03-04-2017, 10:00 PM
Personally, my opinion is that no genuine adept (who has completed the truly universal 'stone') ever wrote a book himself.

Ah ... This is another aspect that may be possible! It sounds very logical...



-----------------------------------------

Andro
03-04-2017, 10:04 PM
You mentioned the Early R+C texts (after the 3 "foundational" texts)... what is constant in them is the rejection of the world and the desire to die.
I.e, Daniel Cramer in his 40 (later expanded to 50) Emblems was obsessed with "leaving this world".
The Speculum Sophicum Rhodostauricum expresses the same obsession.

A rather 'sane obsession' I'd say, all things considered :)


I think a lot of alchemists were not looking for a long life at all.
(An idea that won't sound TOO weird for you, or that's my guess).

Not weird to me at all... But it's a different sort of 'death' I'm talking about, not the usual Recycle Bin.

Awani
03-04-2017, 10:14 PM
Why the "stone" is so elusive?

Because there is no consensus, as far as I can tell, regarding what it is and what it is for. Sure individually everyone has their own idea, but the "elusive" qualities stem not from failure to make it, rather failure in understanding what it is.

:cool:

pierre
03-04-2017, 10:27 PM
Because there is no consensus, as far as I can tell, regarding what it is and what it is for. Sure individually everyone has their own idea, but the "elusive" qualities stem not from failure to make it, rather failure in understanding what it is.

:cool:

Very good point, dev.

All books advise us to choose the most reputable authors, and we do not always respect this rule.
I have my preference for the ancient masters over the contemporaries. I "feel" them more natural and "clear" in their concepts.

zoas23
03-05-2017, 07:54 AM
A rather 'sane obsession' I'd say, all things considered :)
Not weird to me at all... But it's a different sort of 'death' I'm talking about, not the usual Recycle Bin.

My Socratic friend... yes, I get it.
It does sound strange until you think of Plato.... and that's funny for me.... because externally Alchemy looks quite based on Aristotelian ideas, but the core of it is the most pure Platonism.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPIfjOEB2UA

Axismundi000
03-05-2017, 08:55 AM
I seems to me that Albertus (Albert Reidel) spelled it out fairly clearly and this can be supported in Dubuis stuff. This material is obtainable in plain English and French go read it. Whilst I'm sure many here will disagree do not expect me to explain it for you or argue this, read the material yourself, draw your own conclusions.

pierre
03-05-2017, 10:24 AM
I seems to me that Albertus (Albert Reidel) spelled it out fairly clearly and this can be supported in Dubuis stuff. This material is obtainable in plain English and French go read it. Whilst I'm sure many here will disagree do not expect me to explain it for you or argue this, read the material yourself, draw your own conclusions.

I have Frater Albertus's book, and I Have a few old magazines that Albertus was editing at that time, also.
Probably I should read with more attention the material that you indicate to me.
I remember that Albert was mentioning very much the work with antimony, the vegetable stone and the acetate path.
Anyway, thank you for your advice, Axis...

Axismundi000
03-05-2017, 12:49 PM
With Albertus I was thinking more Praxis Spagyrica Philisophica (if you can find it) and Acetate path resource papers volume 3. Also the thermal decomposition of acetates by Bartlett.

You may find (as I have) the older material whilst more obscure does provide useful verification. But again there are so many people totally 'up themselves' about this, wafting about on some pink Alchemical cloud I am not prepared to discuss. If you read the material but disagree with my view (which I am not explicitly sharing) that is perfectly cool. I wish you well on your journey.

pierre
03-05-2017, 01:50 PM
With Albertus I was thinking more Praxis Spagyrica Philisophica (if you can find it) and Acetate path resource papers volume 3. Also the thermal decomposition of acetates by Bartlett.

You may find (as I have) the older material whilst more obscure does provide useful verification. But again there are so many people totally 'up themselves' about this, wafting about on some pink Alchemical cloud I am not prepared to discuss. If you read the material but disagree with my view (which I am not explicitly sharing) that is perfectly cool. I wish you well on your journey.


I'll try to find that Albertus material, then. Can you help me a little with that?
Thanks for the info, Axis...

Illen A. Cluf
03-05-2017, 02:32 PM
Personally[/I], my opinion is that no genuine adept (who has completed the truly universal 'stone') ever wrote a book himself.



I think that may be true for the more recent authors over the past eight to ten centuries or so. However, I think there may be some Arab Masters who wrote legitimate texts long ago, before alchemy became popular in the West.

pierre
03-05-2017, 04:59 PM
Good question. We could wonder also: what are the indications that it existed in the past centuries? Maybe we could discover some standards and apply them to the 21st century.
For example, we can check the way an "alchemist" has lived and died. If he died prematurely or died from a disease probably he was not accomplished. In theory, the Stone would allow him to live the whole span of his alloted years and die because of old age. Thus, "alchemists" who died early, probably didn't have the Stone.

This it is a good system of analysis, theFool.
There exist also some alchemists references that showed tests of the reality of the stone, and have remained registered this meetings for the posterity in different writings, but it is almost impossible to follow the track to this historical information, lamentably...

Kiorionis
03-05-2017, 05:01 PM
What about the story of the alchemist who, after completing the Stone, fakes his death in order to live Freely?

Maybe all alchemists who have 'died' young really just faked it.

pierre
03-05-2017, 05:14 PM
What about the story of the alchemist who, after completing the Stone, fakes his death in order to live Freely?

Maybe all alchemists who have 'died' young really just faked it.

Ha ha... That' s why I like this forum!!! You got a good point, Kiorionis... Really a good one!

theFool
03-05-2017, 05:49 PM
What about the story of the alchemist who, after completing the Stone, fakes his death in order to live Freely? Some are supposed to have left no body behind after death (for example Jesus) but, as usual, they left no written works behind too; we only know about it through their disciples.

About alchemists faking their deaths, it could be possible but if there is a grave with their corpse inside, I think it is far fetched to suppose they faked it. Maybe we could target alchemists who have no grave and died by ways that justify their missing corpse.

To make some fun out of it, I think it would be impossible for some of them to fake their death. For example imagine "Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim" to stay hidden. For how long could have kept it secret with such a name?

pierre
03-05-2017, 07:10 PM
Some are supposed to have left no body behind after death (for example Jesus) but, as usual, they left no written works behind too; we only know about it through their disciples.

About alchemists faking their deaths, it could be possible but if there is a grave with their corpse inside, I think it is far fetched to suppose they faked it. Maybe we could target alchemists who have no grave and died by ways that justify their missing corpse.

To make some fun out of it, I think it would be impossible for some of them to fake their death. For example imagine "Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim" to stay hidden. For how long could have kept it secret with such a name?

theFool, You make me...

https://img.clipartfox.com/7e1960e66511f0330433f71a8ca58446_belly-laugh-clip-art-1181927-laughs-clipart_2000-1619.jpeg

Schmuldvich
03-05-2017, 07:18 PM
What about the story of the alchemist who, after completing the Stone, fakes his death in order to live Freely?

Maybe all alchemists who have 'died' young really just faked it.

This is my general supposition on the subject too. Some Alchemists, but not all, certainly faked their death.


To make some fun out of it, I think it would be impossible for some of them to fake their death. For example imagine "Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim" to stay hidden. For how long could have kept it secret with such a name?

In my reading, I remember Paracelsus or another famed Alchemist recounting about how he had to "shave off his beard and leave the city almost immediately as to evade capture"... Doesn't seem too far fetched to me.

elixirmixer
03-12-2017, 11:31 PM
I find the concept of doubt-fullness in relation to the Stone, one hard to fathome. The Stone (and it's processes) are the microcosm to our planet, and her processes. You are standing on a stone. (Or at least, one of it's Bodies)

And plus, the theory of the stone makes such incredible sense, that it is difficult for me to consider it as 'non-existent' or a fairy-tale.

The difficulty that people have I think is that basically, you have to be, 'spiritually initiated'. If you don't find the keys, if you don't understand the 'decknames', then Alchemy is a maze of truthful lies, uncertain doubts, and myriads of misleading paths. But once you have unlocked the deck, things seem to make a bit more sence.

Not long ago I would have agreed with Axis and seeking stonehood in lead or antimonial works, now I realise that Hollandus text "A work of Saturn" was not actually in relation to lead or antimony AT ALL. But rather, it is a vegetable work. Dam Bartlett for continuing this trickery into the 21st century!

The Stone is Real, that's for sure.

This forum, if members were more united and played less games with each other, could make the stone. Many of these men do have a decent understanding as to what the task requires. But there are many stages and specifics, which more or less go un-spoken about, an these specificis can slow down a practitioner, because if you fail in one aspect you will fail in them all and have to wait another year to have a proper shot again.

Seth-Ra has photos of what he believes is a transmutation. It's certainly does look like gold and although he could have just taken a photo of some gold leaf he had, I don't think Seth-Ra is really that kind of person, he is on a serious mission of spiritual growth and so I believe there is merit in what he has achieved.

Remember, there is more than one stone also, more than one way to make a red crystal that will heal the body. These stones can be multiplied. Only two stones can transmute other metals, those are the stone of the metallic realm and the u -specified stone. This is because you cannot give what you do not have, and the vegetable stone for instance does not possess the 'metallic seed' while it does still actually posses gold and silver, so to speak, but not their seeds. It has instead a vegetable seed.

pierre
04-14-2017, 12:11 PM
I find the concept of doubt-fullness in relation to the Stone, one hard to fathome. The Stone (and it's processes) are the microcosm to our planet, and her processes. You are standing on a stone. (Or at least, one of it's Bodies)

And plus, the theory of the stone makes such incredible sense, that it is difficult for me to consider it as 'non-existent' or a fairy-tale.

The difficulty that people have I think is that basically, you have to be, 'spiritually initiated'. If you don't find the keys, if you don't understand the 'decknames', then Alchemy is a maze of truthful lies, uncertain doubts, and myriads of misleading paths. But once you have unlocked the deck, things seem to make a bit more sence.

Not long ago I would have agreed with Axis and seeking stonehood in lead or antimonial works, now I realise that Hollandus text "A work of Saturn" was not actually in relation to lead or antimony AT ALL. But rather, it is a vegetable work. Dam Bartlett for continuing this trickery into the 21st century!

The Stone is Real, that's for sure.

This forum, if members were more united and played less games with each other, could make the stone. Many of these men do have a decent understanding as to what the task requires. But there are many stages and specifics, which more or less go un-spoken about, an these specificis can slow down a practitioner, because if you fail in one aspect you will fail in them all and have to wait another year to have a proper shot again.

Seth-Ra has photos of what he believes is a transmutation. It's certainly does look like gold and although he could have just taken a photo of some gold leaf he had, I don't think Seth-Ra is really that kind of person, he is on a serious mission of spiritual growth and so I believe there is merit in what he has achieved.

Remember, there is more than one stone also, more than one way to make a red crystal that will heal the body. These stones can be multiplied. Only two stones can transmute other metals, those are the stone of the metallic realm and the u -specified stone. This is because you cannot give what you do not have, and the vegetable stone for instance does not possess the 'metallic seed' while it does still actually posses gold and silver, so to speak, but not their seeds. It has instead a vegetable seed.


Interesting commentary about Hollandus stone, elixirmixer.
Could you give some more information about it?

elixirmixer
04-14-2017, 11:26 PM
Interesting commentary about Hollandus stone, elixirmixer.
Could you give some more information about it?

Ahh finally! I've been waiting weeks for a Hollandus conversation!

Which stone are you speaking of specifically? Hollandus' works that describe the Great Work or some of his more vegetable based applications?

Seeing we are in a PS thread I'll talk about that first of all, if you would like more info on vegetable works, please refer to the Minor Opus -Tier 2 thread or alternatively 'The vegetable stone' thread.

Hollandus was a true alchemist in my opinion in the sense that he considered the four elements to be of great significance, in the fact that it allowed him to conduct quite an epic theory on 'making the inward like the outward, and the outward, inwards"

You see, Hollandus explains to us that within each of the four elements there is a combustable principal, an incombustible principal, and a feces.

In each of these elements, it is the work of the artist to remove all feces (that which is superfluous) and to make the combustible, incombustible, by fixing it. One the feces are removed and the perishable made imperishable, then the full nature and virtue is able to express itself, without hinderance, and therefore becomes many times what it was in potency and affectivity.

For remember, it is not that we give some type of power to our work, but rather, it has an infinite amount of power in it's own right, but that it must be brought forth.

And then, we have our feces of Earth, which becomes our Seed. If it be water it will be gurr, if the grapevine it will be Purified Tartar.

This calcined Earth is required in order for germination to occur and to bring about a solid body for your stone work. It also can be used as a way to further purify the elements, by Solve et Coagula, and re-calcining your salts before recombination.

Now let us further examine our elements: when we observe the vulgar fire, we notice all four elements are evenly expressed. What we immediately notice is that two elements are volatile, namely the air and water which vape away in smoke and steam, and that two elements are fixed, namely the wood, and also the fire, which stay grounded and do not assend. This is am important understanding, seeing as many, if they were to create say, an Archeus, would assume that the fire element is distilled over first. They could not be more wrong.

Water, is in fact the first element to assend, then Air, then Fire, and if the Art be skilful enough, Earth.

But what significance is this analogy of the vulgar fire, and how do we apply this to the laboritory?

Well, let's say that I want to wash my Earth, with my Water. That's going to pretty difficult, if I don't know which element is which, and if working with waters, they are imperceptibly different, and all you have to go by is what the ancients have said, who, basically, more often than not, are trying to mess with you.

It is clear by the analogy of the vulgar fire that during any calcination, we recieve first our waters, then our air, then our fixed fires, followed by our most fixed Earth.

These elemental theories are an absolute prerequisite (IMO) to success in the hollandus works.

---------------- lesson 2 -------------------

The work of Saturn has absolutely nothing to do with lead or antimony, other than the fact that it is used as an allegory, just as vulgar fire has nothing to do with the elemental fires, except that it makes a very accurate metaphor. We can see the first major clue for this right in the first paragraph I believe: (nope, first line second paragraph) it reads:


And know, my Child, for a Truth, that in the whole vegetable work there is no higher nor greater Secret than in Saturn;

That's the first clue, there are others in there as well.

Now, I'm not saying that you can not make an epic stone from lead and antimony, I'd say you actually can, but it was that experiment that was used as a cover to describe a different process. One of extracting a prestige whiteness from 'Saturn' or 'Our Blackness'

I'll take a punt, right now at what Our Blackness is, but I would still just be guessing. And in fact, due to the allegorical nature of our language, and the corresponding nature of the universe, it could also be used to describe a few procedures:

One of our Blacknesses comes from a fermenting of 'dew'. Dew from the waters of the earth will ferment to a blackness, but also, I assume by this whole, toad and dragon situation, that There are other Prima Materia that go black when combined properly.

Then, this Hollandus yet, a work of Saturn, we see an allegorical description of how to sublimate our blackness into whiteness.

Even amounts the learned I believe there is still disputes about this blackness, as some, are fermenting actually black substances, while some R+C texts describe this as an error and that the blackness is a smoke created by a reaction.

In regards to hollandus and his stone, without moving into vegetable talks which is reserved for other threads, this is about all the info I can think of, and the plumber is here so I have to get dressed and go. :o I'll drop in anything I've forgotten later.

Hollandus, at first appears to be very straight forward and simple, honest clear literature. But that's what makes him so cool, because he's actually a very tricky bastard, and try's to send you on false paths I purpose, which we hall describe in greater detail later today.

elixirmixer
04-15-2017, 05:02 AM
I really do apologise for the dodgy grammer, new graphics card is on it's way.

HOLLANDUSis a LEGEND: reason being?; Let's take a look...

Hollandus in his volume of Alchemical Manuscripts, when beginning talks concerning the elements, the principals, the stone, urine, ect.... Beginning much in the way of past adepts, by swearing whole heartily to be honest and revealing. Pigs Ass.

Shortly after bringing you a breakdown of the philosophical hand of salts, he then describes the nature of vegetables, further explains the elements, and very subtle explains a profound concept, that of the nature and properties of vegi-spirit life. He explains then, that if we are not careful and patient then we destroy the smell, taste, and colour, and that within these three lies the power to perform a perfect recombination.

If we consider then, some fresh grass or leaves, cut, and placed inside a plastic bag and left out in the son, what do we notice occurs? What is this which we obtain? Where does it fit into our view of the elemental spectrum? It is with this revelation that we open up great doors into herbal Spagyrics, and move closer to an alchemical realm, one that uses nothing whatsoever other than that which is our Materia.

Hollandus then, after takin great care to explain the sensitivities of our essense, then begins explaining a pyro distillation process, encouraging the student to use excessive violence on the subject, basically, jut to see if you were listening when he said that you must be gentle. I imagine there are many who read this text and then move into pyro distillation, but this is a trick path, intended to deceive one who is not paying attention. You will often find in these texts that the 'keys' are short, one liners, that, are easily overlooked, but if one is listening, there entire lesson will lie within that one sentence.

I could say more, but I would like to hear what others have to say also.

Luxus
05-03-2017, 02:27 PM
Hi everyone....

Is there any indication of the reality of PS in the 21st century?
Did anyone in this forum know or knew of any current alchemists who possessed the stone?
Have we "lost" it in the course of time... maybe?

None of us are worthy of this donum dei, in the eyes of God?
Do we not have the necessary knowledge?
Did the past masters lied to us?

Why the "stone" is so elusive?

Best regards...

Every year has its four seasons and every great age has its four ages, we are now in the Winter and all good things of summer past are just memory's to most. And if so that there are none alive who have held the stone in their hands all we can do is pray to the passed masters to inspire us and read their text. I personally believe the science of alchemy stretches back to the days of Atlantis.

Kibric
07-25-2017, 08:51 PM
Is there any indication of the reality of PS in the 21st century?
Did anyone in this forum know or knew of any current alchemists who possessed the stone?
Have we "lost" it in the course of time... maybe?

Mr and Mrs Ingalese don't have graves I think..?
http://www.rexresearch.com/alchemy5/ingalese.htm


We are not greatly concerned here with the individuals known as Richard and Isabella Ingalese nor to their whereabouts up to the nineteen thirties and thereafter. We are, however, interested in the message they gave and in the alchemical work performed by a married couple. The husband, Richard Ingalese, attorney at law, found it necessary to give a public address on Alchemy outlining their combined results in the laboratory, and then proceeded to publish those findings. Unfortunately, unlike Volpier, who died in 1947 in Germany, and who described in detail the process he had followed, the Ingaleses did not give specific outlines of the procedures involved. Consequently their steps and methods cannot be duplicated and verified. Even here, however, pronounced differences in the procedure are evident and cannot be overlooked. We plan to publish a translation of the original manuscript of Volpier (his nom de plume) in a future issue of the Golden Manuscript Series. Archibald Cockren, who began in practical alchemy at about the same time as the lngaleses, in the somewhat sketchy description in his book "Alchemy Restored and Rediscovered" gives more details than revealed by Ingalese in his lecture.

nor does Ramalinga Swamigal
Archibald Cockren was rumoured to have faked his death
there's the legend Federico Gualdi = Friedrich Walther
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federico_Gualdi&prev=search

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://livre.prologuenumerique.ca/telechargement/extrait.cfm%3FISBN%3D9782296266933%26type%3Dpdf&prev=search


We can not say much about the living conditions of this man
singular. The lack of information about it, found in the writings
Alchemical, is distorted by fabulous additions. One can not even
Not say with certainty when and where he is actually born and dead - voila
Why it was easy to impute to him an age of a few centuries -
As long as one was unable to indicate where he came from and where he was.
Gone " 1 . For having found several autograph manuscripts,
Possible to highlight some fragments of his life and
Work, of which here is the essential.
Probably native of Germany, the man calls himself Federico
Gualdi, although I can not swear that his surname was real.
Between 1660 and 1678 he lived in and around Venice; It is socially
integrated. In 1660 , then in 1663 , he proposed his solution so that the terrible
Acqua alta which had just taken place was the ultimate. Between 1663 and 1666 , he operated
The mine complex of Andreana Crotta, a widow and
Owner of deposits in Val Imperina; we will learn
By the sons of Andreana that he is mining dealer since at least

In 1676 , on the incentive of Francesco Giusto - a mining dealer
Gualdi had stoned - the Inquisition records antedated jealousies
Of ten years raising some veil over the Venetian circle of his
Alchemical processes; Although it is lent the canonical age of " 200
Or 300 years ", there is no incentive for the Inquisitor to continue the investigation; he ... not
Will not be heard. Other testimonials make him a reputation for being a
Alchemist (reality is otherwise banal: the man paraded
In Venice, pockets full of gold, the credulous imagined some
Successful transmutation, man had only enriched himself without the knowledge
Widow Crotta). As for the last testimony giving Gualdi alive, he
From a letter dated 2 November 1678 addressed to a number of
"D. of R.". The old age of Gualdi? I resigned myself to ignoring it,
Like its genealogy, its childhood, its youth and the first part
Of his adult life. I also struggled to know its dates and places of
Birth and death. Coming from nowhere and going somewhere, Gualdi
Would he have escaped from the archive ?


Leonard Orr claims to have met Immortal men
his method of washing twice a day has roots in practises involving Lord Murugan
Pharrell (44) the artist has said he showers twice a day
when asked about his youthful appearance

there's famous Li Ching Yuen

In India lots of Siddhars are said to be Immortal
there's this nice story

"a yogi came down to Kanjamalai with his aged discipile with the intention of obtaining eternal youth through yogic practices. He left his disciple in charge of cooking his food, and went out to the rich jungle, in search of medicinal herbs. The devoted disciple, stirred the pot of boiling rice with a stick found nearby and to his horror found the rice turning black. Afraid of serving the
blackened rice to his guru, he consumed it himself - and to his utter amazement attained a youthful form. The guru, convinced of the magical powers of the stick which had been used to stir the rice, searched for it, and to his horror discovered that the disciple had thrown it into the fire. He caused the disciple to vomit out the rice that he had consumed, and consumed it himself and also attained an eternally youthful form. "

http://www.templenet.com/Tamilnadu/m075.html
what tree ?
instead of eating puke..

not 21st century
but there's this curious entry..

St.Bartholomew's, Church Minshull
'The registers begin in 1561 and contain the following curious entry, which
is written in words at length and in the same hand with the other parts of
the register : " 1649, Thomas Damme of Leighton buried the 20th of
Februarie, being of the age of seven score and fourteene."

Thomas DAMME of Leighton, born 1454 and died 1648

This guy aroused my suspicion :eek:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pianist-faked-death-to-see-his-obituary-1084584.html


On 28 March, Friedrich Gulda publicly staged his own death by initiating his own obituary, ahead of two planned Easter concerts due to take place in Salzburg, entitled “Friedrich Gulda’s Resurrection Party“.
Friedrich Gulda played his last concert at the Viennese Musikverein on 4 November.

http://www.gulda.at/english/biographie/text.htm