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elixirmixer
04-17-2017, 09:58 PM
One of the most frustrating aspects of elixir production can sometimes be (at least for me) the calcining of plant ashes.

Obviously an electric kiln is the way to go but for some of us, the electric kiln is in the list of things we can only dream of having, or possibly spend many nights on DIY forums trying to build a brick furnace...

Two questions I have for the forum:

1. If you do not own a kiln, how have you been calcining your plant ashes?

2. If you DO own a kiln, what temperature, and for how long, are you calcining?

elixirmixer
04-17-2017, 10:02 PM
Plant Calcination is a pretty large topic. Potential discussion points:

Do we want glassed salts? If yes, then why? And if no, then why not?

Is it possible to calcine to a red salt like some have elledged after extrended treatments!

How do we evolve plant salts?

The list is endless, but I can't do all the thinking.

IMO salts are one of our most useful principals, in that they can be used to clean out other principals. So te cleaner we can get our salts, the clearer all of our work will be IMO

Axismundi000
04-17-2017, 11:55 PM
In Spagyrics glassed salts go towards the plant stone, plant ash calcined at around 550 Centigrade is for basic Spagyrics. You discuss Hollandus Opera vegetabilia on another thread Elixirmuxer. Hollandus totally condemns the Spagyric approach were material is burned off into the air.

Kiorionis
04-20-2017, 03:06 AM
Do we want glassed salts? If yes, then why? And if no, then why not?

I personally like to consider the qualities and characteristics of glass. Is it easily assimilated into substance? Is it able to volatilize? Does it absorb water, ethanol or other spirits?

Do you want a plant salt to have the characteristics and qualities of glass?

However, I think glass is technically considered a liquid... lol

Andro
04-20-2017, 05:09 AM
I think glass is technically considered a liquid...

At least from an alchemical perspective it is a 'liquid', in a sense... and much more than this... very good point!

Salazius
04-20-2017, 09:37 AM
My two cents : Calcination requires very little things.

First of all, it needs a simple source of fire.

And a dish in unglased earth/potery (no glass, no metal, of course, no pyrex or it will explode) or quartz. Graphite can do the trick or pombagine also, but I'm not for it.

The dish will be with a wide mouth in order to expose properly the ashes to oxygen, this will help the combustion and make them quickly burn and being grey, then white. If you have a lot of matter to burn, then only burn by small layers, it is a question of oxygen here, so a big pile will never really burn properly.

There is no need to fuse the salts, or to heat it strongly, generally it is counter productive. If they turn blue, then you screwed it, because it extracted ions from the dish, and now they are spoiled with cancerous matter. Just a good dish is enough, no oven, no special crucible, no extra white colgate ashes needed. Makes not really a big difference IMO.

elixirmixer
04-20-2017, 09:55 AM
You discuss Hollandus Opera vegetabilia on another thread Elixirmuxer. Hollandus totally condemns the Spagyric approach were material is burned off into the air.

I have considered that after the fire element has been extracted and our bio mass ceases to yield it's colour, that we then calcine our earth. Mind you, this is just an assumption of mine, I'm very much looking forward to experimenting with this.

I am personally of the school of thought that plant ashes ought not to be calcined to glass, but rather, as best and as long as you can without it turning to a liquid.

I also seek a way to calcine salts to redness reliably, if anyone has read anything about this process I would really appreciate a point in the right direction :)

Allow me a moment to have you consider... You could boil lead all day, but you will not achieve it's redness, yet if you roast galena then the redness comes out.

The Fool, in Anthology I, refers to David Hudsons annealing of gold, and speaks of a red colour after certain roastings.

I'm not sure if glass is the way, although, I did use it in my last Vinegar Ens Melissa mix, and there didn't seem to be a problem.

RED Salts!!! What does this colour change represent? Dam Alchemy is cool :cool:

Axismundi000
04-20-2017, 10:14 AM
I use these for calcinating plant salts and they do produce a redness sometimes. I wonder if this is a contamination effect or a normal effect in the absence of glaze. Perhaps that is why they are called rose crucible.

https://www.coleparmer.co.uk/p/coorstek-unglazed-rose-crucible/14678

I'm sure there a much cheaper alternatives but I don't calcinate plant salts that often and they are a nice size.

elixirmixer
04-20-2017, 11:21 AM
How long did you calcine for to get your redness axis? Was this glass or powder?

Amon
04-20-2017, 11:59 AM
I use a porcelain crucible and a common gas burner. I let it burn for quite a while and the salts do get red hot (although they lose the redness after 15-20 min). But i am just an amateur, listening to the big guns here would be wise

Axismundi000
04-20-2017, 01:12 PM
How long did you calcine for to get your redness axis? Was this glass or powder?

The redness only came into the salts when I fused the salts at 1000 Centigrade. My cheap little electric kiln can only reach 1000 degrees and it was bought specifically for plant works. The salts were white with red tinge but I wonder if this was due to the crucible because it is called a rose crucible and the inside of the crucible apart from the salts was also very red.

JDP
04-20-2017, 06:39 PM
My two cents : Calcination requires very little things.

First of all, it needs a simple source of fire.

And a dish in unglased earth/potery (no glass, no metal, of course, no pyrex or it will explode) or quartz. Graphite can do the trick or pombagine also, but I'm not for it.

The dish will be with a wide mouth in order to expose properly the ashes to oxygen, this will help the combustion and make them quickly burn and being grey, then white. If you have a lot of matter to burn, then only burn by small layers, it is a question of oxygen here, so a big pile will never really burn properly.

There is no need to fuse the salts, or to heat it strongly, generally it is counter productive. If they turn blue, then you screwed it, because it extracted ions from the dish, and now they are spoiled with cancerous matter. Just a good dish is enough, no oven, no special crucible, no extra white colgate ashes needed. Makes not really a big difference IMO.

The problem with this approach is that you can only heat the calcining dish from below (with a gas burner or with burning coals/wood, or with an electric plate), so the upper parts of the material being calcined do not get as hot as the ones below, closer to the bottom of the dish, so as you say, you have to do it in thinner layers, which takes more time and effort to accomplish. But by using furnaces/ovens/kilns you can heat the calcining dish and its contents from ALL directions, so the whole material gets evenly heated, and thus the calcination is performed faster and more conveniently.

Axismundi000
04-21-2017, 11:53 AM
The redness only came into the salts when I fused the salts at 1000 Centigrade. My cheap little electric kiln can only reach 1000 degrees and it was bought specifically for plant works. The salts were white with red tinge but I wonder if this was due to the crucible because it is called a rose crucible and the inside of the crucible apart from the salts was also very red.


I just went back and checked. The lemon balm salts had redness but the Rosemary salts not. There was no 'secret way' I just calcinated them on a stove and when that had gone as far as it could put them in the kiln and cranked it up to 1000 Centigrade. Sorry to quote myself here it's just the redness only happened one time.

elixirmixer
08-11-2017, 10:35 PM
I really do wish you old bastards were more interactive when it comes to the practical Spagyrics of this website.

There can't be any harm to the art or to other people to help others make higher quality medicinal products.

Calcinations:

So I've been experimenting with calcination techniques. I've come to accept that so far Zoas was the closest to the mark with his "400 degrees for thirty hours" I would go as far as to say that 440 degrees for 40 hours is basically the perfect white snow calcination.

I really do want to know the scientific way to move salts from white into the citrine and red. I'm hoping that the more chemistry minded amongst you may be able to explain how it is that additional oxygen molecules find their way into our carbonates to form oxides.

I'm really looking for someone who would like to work on Spagyrics simultaneously and exchange a more interesting and interactive engagement than what we are used to from the spagyrics around here... Call me ;)

Another thing i think I've noticed, when you guys evaporate your water from your plant ashes, do you boil the water? Last time I did some ashes and I just had it on a raging boil, but I'm starting to think that boiling the ashes in part volatizes them, because my yield was significantly lower than usual. Have you had any of these results?

I've totally unlocked some Spagyric secrets that I've never seen written anywhere and that significantly upgrades the regular Spagyric elixir into something that is altogether quite special.

These secrets are free to those who actively, and for the sake of humanities medicinal evolution, share their experiences, advice and other knowledge bases, with the group.

Dragon's Tail
08-23-2017, 11:15 PM
elixermixer, first, I'm a fan of yours, but you never knew it because I've been hiding in the shadows, but the mods were nice enough to accept my application. Are you talking about an initial calcining to get your white, or after recrystalization. The reason calcined "ash" will turn white is because the calcium carbonate is turning into calcium oxide, better known as "burnt lime," and it's the principal ingredient in concrete. I've since calcined only until everything becomes a light gray, and then go straight to purifying and washing. Mine might be the wrong ideology, but I think those calcium salts probably have a better use.

Then again, I could be completely wrong, as CaO will form a strong hydroxide in water while CaCO3 will barely dissolve at all. I call it "the dark serpent" because of the way it falls out of solution when heating for my first recrystallization. With the water still hot, I filter the serpent out from my other dissolved salts. This is dangerous and can break glass vessels if you aren't careful, but my methodology makes it a bit safer ;) I used to follow the crowd on this and calcine all the ash, but I find lower temperatures and extracting less-soluble salts to be better in my experiments, though it's much less. Most of what I have left is K2CO3, for sure. But if dried carefully and fully before raising the temp (IE not anywhere near boiling temps) something else is contained in the salt, which I only discovered when the temp was below boiling, but still hot enough to cause a visible vapor. I don't know what this mystery salt is, but my gut tells me it's important. It will only volitize when wet, and only above a certain temp.

Just my thoughts from experimentation. I haven't been able to find anything, scientific, alchemical, or spagyrical, about this substance or its quirky nature.