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Awani
04-24-2017, 09:59 PM
I am simply in a Hare Krishna vibe at the moment, because I have received a lot of help from chanting Hare Krishna. It has been truly amazing.


I never mentioned, but driving home from work the night before Easter Mass ceremony (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5218-Easter-Mass) I began chanting Hare Krishna over and over again and something happened to me in doing so: I began to sob and cry whilst driving, so much that I had to stop. Don't chant and drive.

I was very surprised... I didn't expect the chant to have that effect on me.

You know when you hum a song in your head without thinking about it? And then even when you notice, you keep doing it. After some time of this you focus on it and try and stop doing it. At least this happens to me a lot. Usually with songs I don't really like. Today this happened with the Hare Krishna mantra (which I do like).

In my boring day job I hire a lot of people. Over the years I have hired thousands of people (a few every week), and today I hired someone with the name Krishna. And everyone who starts work get a work-ID, and hers was the same number as the year I was born.

Everything above has happened in less than a week. So I am certainly on some sort of Krishna wave at the moment.

Hare Krishna. ;)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/giphy_zpsbixvwsqb.gif (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna)

:cool:

zoas23
04-25-2017, 12:22 AM
Hinduism is still one of the most impossible-to-understand-religions for me... I believe that rather than Hinduism, we have "Hinduisms"... but not in the same sense that we have "Christianisms".

I.e, Krishna is quite an interesting example... if you read the Bhagavad Gita alone, then you find a monotheistic Religion in which Krishna is "God"... Then you go to other texts and you find a trinitarian Religion (though with a trinity that has very little to do with ANY Christian Trinity -either the Catholic trinity or the Gnostic Trinity -as in the works by Valentinus)... whilst in other texts you face a polytheism that is not truly based on a "trinity".

I think it is probably one of the most complex religions... or maybe it is a Religion that created "branches" that offer VERY different ideas.

It would be nice if someone who is seriously into Hinduism can explain what is Krishna from all these quite different points of view.

Awani
04-25-2017, 01:42 AM
Krishna is compassion.

All the gods of this religion are different apps for the same smartphone. ;)

For me it is not important to understand and logically connect all aspects of any religion. For instance chant the names of God (the Hare Krishna mantra) for a few days and the rest will be explained. LOL.

But I feel the same as you do when it comes to the Kabbala, which does little for me. Judaism in general is a religion that seems the most like some department of the government. I am sure there is value in it somewhere, but for me it just does not vibrate. But I might dive into it properly at some point.

:cool:

z0 K
04-25-2017, 02:05 AM
Hinduism is still one of the most impossible-to-understand-religions for me... I believe that rather than Hinduism, we have "Hinduisms"... but not in the same sense that we have "Christianisms".

I.e, Krishna is quite an interesting example... if you read the Bhagavad Gita alone, then you find a monotheistic Religion in which Krishna is "God"... Then you go to other texts and you find a trinitarian Religion (though with a trinity that has very little to do with ANY Christian Trinity -either the Catholic trinity or the Gnostic Trinity -as in the works by Valentinus)... whilst in other texts you face a polytheism that is not truly based on a "trinity".

I think it is probably one of the most complex religions... or maybe it is a Religion that created "branches" that offer VERY different ideas.

It would be nice if someone who is seriously into Hinduism can explain what is Krishna from all these quite different points of view.

Alexander the Great went to the Indus, met Krisha and liked his ideas. Then Alexander's syncreatic philosophers integrated Krishna into the Western pantheon, transmuted Kirshna into Kristos and took him home to the West. The Hebrew version was Geebus Christ:)

Aham
04-25-2017, 02:17 AM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/giphy_zpsbixvwsqb.gif (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna)


Ummm.... dev.... you've got the wrong guy in the pic :D

Aham
04-25-2017, 02:35 AM
It would be nice if someone who is seriously into Hinduism can explain what is Krishna from all these quite different points of view


To me, it's a monotheistic religion where a multitude of 'gods' (spirits) were created to help the common folk connect with the various aspects of the universal spirit.

Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu (Preserver) in the trinity that includes Bramha (Creator) and Shiva (Destroyer).

Now, I said everything I know about Hinduism... :)

zoas23
04-25-2017, 02:58 AM
Krishna is compassion.
All the gods of this religion are different apps for the same smartphone. ;)
For me it is not important to understand and logically connect all aspects of any religion. For instance chant the names of God (the Hare Krishna mantra) for a few days and the rest will be explained. LOL.

Hahaha.... I would like to listen to someone who is more seriously into Hinduism than you are (I am not saying that you are not serious, but you would agree with me that you have only a superficial knowledge of Hinduism, though I think your knowledge is better than mine, which is close to nothing when it comes to Hinduism).

I believe that to "transcend" the basic understanding of something, the basic understanding of such thing is needed first.
I.e, Kircher wrote a FANTASTIC essay about the Egyptian language that makes no sense at all, because he couldn't read it.... the same thing happened to Leibniz when he wrote a book about the Chinese language (I have a marvelous edition of that book in Spanish, commented by a Chinese in the footnotes... the mistakes of LEibniz are hilarious, which doesn't mean that he was a fool... he's among the BEST philosophers that ever existed!).

Then again, I get that your interest in Krishna is not academic and I can confess that I enjoy a lot listening to Hindu Mantras (My favorite ones are the ones dedicated to Kali).

But Hinduism is such an incomprehensible puzzle to me that I would LOVE to talk to an "expert" in the field and learn a bit about its meta-structure.


But I feel the same as you do when it comes to the Kabbala, which does little for me. Judaism in general is a religion that seems the most like some department of the government. I am sure there is value in it somewhere, but for me it just does not vibrate. But I might dive into it properly at some point.

Qabalah (I don't get why it is often transliterated as "Kabala", "Kabballah" or whatever) is very interesting and most people who know nothing about it (which is not a sin at all) is often (or always) very confused about what it is. It is mostly an adaptation to Hebrew of Gnostic ideas (I specially mean Marcosian Gnosticism)... and it is interesting in the sense that it is probably the only "Alexandrian phylosophycal tool" that was rightfully preserved (we have a very fragmented version of what Christian Gnosticism is, we have a very fragmented version of the Chaldean Oracles, we have a very fragmented version of the Pythagorean School, our "Corpus Hermeticum" is only a small sample of what was the Alexandrian Hermeticism). Qabalah preserved these "knowledges" quite well and is a very useful tool to understand them. There's not a HUGE difference between Qabalah and, say, Alexandrian Hermeticism.


Alexander the Great went to the Indus, met Krisha and liked his ideas. Then Alexander's syncreatic philosophers integrated Krishna into the Western pantheon, transmuted Kirshna into Kristos and took him home to the West. The Hebrew version was Geebus Christ:)

Hahaha... I have ZERO doubts about the fact that the biblical (and apocryphal and gnostic) "Jesus" is a cocktail. A syncretism of many different ideas... Maybe Krishna is part of that Cocktail too (I see a mix of things that go from the Logos of Philo of Alexandria to the Egyptian God Osiris... and even Socrates).

Awani
04-25-2017, 11:17 AM
Ummm.... dev.... you've got the wrong guy in the pic :D

I just picked the gif I liked most. It represented my feelings more than some douche playing a flute to some sheep. ;)

Also zoas23 I get what you are saying, but the more a topic is studied the dumber the student gets. An expert in Hinduism would probably not even speak about it because he would be in deep trance. ;) And by the way I spelled Kabbala in Swedish by mistake.

Religion/spirituality is about a personal relationship with the divine. Anything else is basically horseshit. LOL.

:cool:

Aham
04-25-2017, 11:50 AM
I just picked the gif I liked most. It represented my feelings more than some douche playing a flute to some sheep. ;)


LOL, you've been chanting the name of a "douche" and "getting a lot of help." Imagine if you started chanting the name of someone who's not a douche! :D

BTW, he was a cow herder. People have written many books/papers on what Krishna was doing with the flute and with various interpretations. The one I kinda like is - the flute has 8 holes that represent the 5 senses, mind, intellect and ego. Krishna fills us with his breath and plays on these holes to bring out the divine melody in us or infuse us with his spirit or... or... or... or all of the above.
He always keeps his flute (us) in his capable hands to allow the divine music to flow through us.

Rock on :)

Awani
04-25-2017, 12:06 PM
Like I said before Kali, Krishna, Shiva... it's all the same thing. And I have seen plenty of images of Krishna with sheep... as soon as you involve human beings with this stuff things become "right" or "wrong". It doesn't really matter. The Hare Krishna mantra could just as well be Blah Blah Blah, as long as Blah puts the mind in a Krishna mood.

That is why Christians who say Dang instead of Damn, or SJW who say N-word instead of Nigger, are morons. If you say N-word you are saying Nigger. So why not just say Nigger then? Or shut the hell up. :)

Yes the flute stuff is interesting and goes with plenty of local folklore tales of similar entities that also use flutes. Although some are more sinister using the flute to lure people into hell and such things.

One major reason why I like Islam, and especially Sufism, is their concept of not drawing what God looks like. These days people think it is an insult, and some draw Mohammed anyway and people get killed and angry etc. All these folks have missed the point.

Why draw something that cannot be drawn? It shifts the focus away from the essence of the thing. A mosque is more spiritual to me in how it is decorated than a church with its plastic puppet on a cross and lots of images of old men in beards.

Hinduism has a cooler imagery than Christianity, it is more "far out". Buddhism is more like Islam using patterns and mandalas a bit more.

:cool:

Awani
04-25-2017, 12:45 PM
I did a google search again and discovered that the gif is actually titled Krishna, and I found a bunch more Krishna titled images that might not all be Krishna (even if they philosophically are). So I guess it is like when you download music... sometimes the people who upload the Beatles re-title it Britney Spears.


A few references discussing why Krishna is called "Krishna."

The name Krishna means 'all-attractive.' God attracts everyone; that is the definition of 'God.' We have seen many pictures of Krishna, and we see that He attracts the cows, calves, birds, beasts, trees, plants, and even the water in Vrindavana. He is attractive to the cowherd boys, to the gopis, to Nanda Maharaja, to the Pandavas, and to all human society. Therefore if any particular name can be given to God, that name is 'Krishna'.

'The word 'krish' is the attractive feature of the Lord's existence, and 'na' means spiritual pleasure. When the verb 'krish' is added to the affix 'na' it becomes Krishna, which indicates the Absolute Truth.'

If we analyze the nirukti, or semantic derivation, of the word 'Krishna,' we find that na signifies that He stops the repetition of birth and death, and krish means sattartha, or 'existence.' (Krishna is the whole of existence.) Also, krish means 'attraction,' and na means ananda, or 'bliss.'

Yes. God has no name, but by His qualities we give Him names. If a man is very beautiful, we call him 'beautiful.' If a man is very intelligent, we call him 'wise.' So the name is given according to the quality. Because God is all-attractive, the name Krishna can be applied only to Him. Krishna means 'all-attractive.' It includes everything. - source (http://www.krishna.com/name-krishna-means)

:cool:

Andro
04-25-2017, 01:09 PM
Smörgåsbord...

Plenty of food choices to to fill the unfillable void... A buffet of religions... Enough variety to suit everyone's palate :)

'Connecting' to the divine is not about tasting/immersing oneself in all sots of apps, but quite the opposite. Delete/uninstall all the apps/programs, and what ever remains and cannot be deleted (because it was never created), IS the divine. 'Connecting' is also perhaps not the best word, because beneath all the programs/apps/layers of the onion-verse, we ARE the divine. So no need to "connect", just BE who we already ARE.

Also, I'll stop adding "disclaimers" such as IMO, etc to my posts... Everyone can assume what they want (opinion, experience, subjective, etc)... Ist mir piepschnurzegal :)


-------------------------------------------------

Awani
04-25-2017, 01:14 PM
Yes that is what I am saying (and if I didn't say it clearly that is what I also think). But one cannot walk from Germany to China without first taking one step... and it would be good if this step is done towards the East. So all the apps are essential. And the more advanced one is the less apps are required.

We also have to enjoy life. And some people enjoy to decorate their space with IKEA furniture, others with various divine entities. Whatever you invest interest in will enhance whatever state of mind you want to have. Or what I want to have that is. It's a smörgåsbord yes, but that is because the diet is everything. I am interested in the practical, and in results... not just ideas for the sake of ideas. That is why in Krishnas case it has become an ally to me in the last few days.

In the film Kundun this dialogue happens:

Indian border guard: Are you the Lord Buddha?
Dalai Lama: I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.


Also, I'll stop adding "disclaimers" such as IMO.

That is IYO. :)

:cool:

Andro
04-25-2017, 01:32 PM
'Hare Krishna' by Boy George (under the title 'Jesus Loves You' :))


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x94FyGiPhG0

Andro
04-25-2017, 02:01 PM
one cannot walk from Germany to China without first taking one step... and it would be good if this step is done towards the East. So all the apps are essential. And the more advanced one is the less apps are required.
I have no desire to go to China or India or the East in general (or anywhere, for that matter) except for reasons of more silence and less game-induced friction.

"Where you stand, there dig deep!
Below you you lies the well!"

- Nietztche

I have worked shamanically with people from many walks of life, among them a few multi-millionaires.

One of the favorite phrases of those self-made millionaires was: "Everything you need is already in your back yard".

Just saying that one does not have to seek/travel far... The UN-Created Center is everywhere...And if one travels, in many cases it is to realize that what he was looking for was at his point of departure in the first place... But it seems to be an inevitable part of the journey, for most... So it's |<()()|_ either way...

"the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."

T.S. Eliot


some people enjoy to decorate their space with IKEA furniture, others with various divine entities. Whatever you invest interest in will enhance whatever state of mind you want to have. Or what I want to have that is.

A fully dark and silent room will provide more universal clarity than a furnished/decorated one. Temples/churches/etc are way to colorful and particular to allow for simply BEING. They focus one on BECOMING instead.





It's a smörgåsbord yes, but that is because the diet is everything.As and old saying goes (I'm paraphrasing, don't remember the exact quote and the exact foods):

:If you want to be strong, eat xxx.
If you want to be wise, eat yyy.
If you want to attain perfection, eat nothing at all."


-----------------------------------------------

Awani
04-25-2017, 02:48 PM
Everything you say is fine and dandy... but I was trying to explain with allegories. Clearly those did not fit your outlook even if they tried to convey what you think. At least as far as I can tell.

:cool:

Awani
04-25-2017, 03:57 PM
It's a smörgåsbord yes, but that is because the diet is everything.

Noticed a typo. Supposed to say:

...because diet is everything.

Removing the "the" changes everything. Sorry.

:cool:

Awani
04-25-2017, 06:13 PM
'Hare Krishna' by Boy George (under the title 'Jesus Loves You'...

LOL. Horrible. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LdNrXaoT24

:cool:

Andro
04-25-2017, 06:27 PM
LOL. Horrible. :)

I.Y.O.
____________________________

Another bit of fast-food buffet (https://youtu.be/EyVai5e842s?t=120)... of sorts...

Awani
04-25-2017, 08:24 PM
Another bit of fast-food buffet (https://youtu.be/EyVai5e842s?t=120)... of sorts...

Now I think I prefer Boy George. LOL. Michael Jackson just sounds like he is being jerked off by kids when he sings.

:cool:

Andro
04-25-2017, 08:57 PM
Now I think I prefer Boy George. LOL. Michael Jackson just sounds like he is being jerked off by kids when he sings.

Here's what he's actually saying in those few verses, for whoever bothers to read/listen:

"She prays to God, to Buddha, then she sings a Talmud song
Confusions contradict the self, do we know right from wrong
I just want you to recognize me in the Temple
You can't hurt me, I found peace within myself."

And Michael is more of a musical & ecstatic shaman than all those new-age buffoons will ever be...

Awani
04-25-2017, 11:39 PM
And Michael is more of a musical & ecstatic shaman than all those new-age buffoons will ever be...

More than the buffoons, sure... but not all "new-age" people are buffoons... besides that term is invalid. Nothing new about it.


Confusions contradict the self, do we know right from wrong

Michael might have felt confusion. I personally don't. Everyone has different ways to go about things. The end result is the same regardless... if one prevails.

Perhaps to some folks Michael is an ecstatic shaman... I personally never saw anything special with him, other than the fact that he can keep a beat and dance better than most. I know you like Man in the Mirror, but he did not even write that. Jam he did write, perhaps that is why Man in the Mirror is better. ;)

Hare Krishna.

:cool:

Aham
04-26-2017, 02:04 AM
Like I said before Kali, Krishna, Shiva... it's all the same thing. And I have seen plenty of images of Krishna with sheep... as soon as you involve human beings with this stuff things become "right" or "wrong". It doesn't really matter. The Hare Krishna mantra could just as well be Blah Blah Blah, as long as Blah puts the mind in a Krishna mood.

I was yanking your chain earlier but for some people the energy of the spirit is invoked when chanting the name of the deity/spirit so for example if I want to be calm, cool and collected, chances are I will try not chant Kali's name... but that could just be my personal preference :)


Why draw something that cannot be drawn? It shifts the focus away from the essence of the thing. A mosque is more spiritual to me in how it is decorated than a church with its plastic puppet on a cross and lots of images of old men in beards.

I'm not sure if imagery helps or hurts. From what I've read, there are quite a few Christian mystics and saints that were able to achieve enlightenment status believing in Christ or the Virgin Mary with lots of images of old men around. It's just as possible that those images actually helped them but we can't know for sure. I think it may have more to do with whatever works for the person and their chosen path.

Aham
04-26-2017, 02:11 AM
Smörgåsbord...
'Connecting' to the divine is not about tasting/immersing oneself in all sots of apps, but quite the opposite. Delete/uninstall all the apps/programs, and what ever remains and cannot be deleted (because it was never created), IS the divine. 'Connecting' is also perhaps not the best word, because beneath all the programs/apps/layers of the onion-verse, we ARE the divine. So no need to "connect", just BE who we already ARE.


Easier said than done for me... Is there an app for that?

Awani
04-26-2017, 10:41 AM
Perhaps to some folks Michael is an ecstatic shaman... I personally never saw anything special with him, other than the fact that he can keep a beat and dance better than most. I know you like Man in the Mirror, but he did not even write that. Jam he did write, perhaps that is why Man in the Mirror is better. ;)

@Andro: Re-read this today and realised that it was an unnecessary joke. Perhaps irrelevant to you, but my true belief is that whatever a person loves, and is attracted to, is sacred ground in a sense (even if the other person does not feel that). But I do. So even though I was just having fun (old habit), I don't think it was necessary. Sorry.


I was yanking your chain earlier but for some people the energy of the spirit is invoked when chanting the name of the deity/spirit so for example if I want to be calm, cool and collected, chances are I will try not chant Kali's name... but that could just be my personal preference :)

Sure, that is true. I feel the same. Although I am only interested in one particular feeling and state of mind... so whatever method I use (or religion, or path), it is always the same destination.


It's just as possible that those images actually helped them but we can't know for sure. I think it may have more to do with whatever works for the person and their chosen path.

Perhaps, although to me it seems more fear-driven. Belive or else.


Easier said than done for me... Is there an app for that?

It is one of those conundrums or paradoxes. It is extremly difficult. And very easy. At the same time.

To give a few examples: ten years ago I was a person that held a grudge... I would never let go or forgive anyone. To do so was almost impossible for me. It was very difficult. When I eventually crossed the threshold and began to let go and forgive it became very easy. Now it requires almost zero effort. What was difficult became easy simply by doing it.

Or it's like when my home is dirty and I feel lazy, and I can't be asked to clean... but if I make an effort and begin to clean, then suddenly it starts to go pretty fast and when I am finished it feels good and wasn't that hard.

The mind/brain work with habit. That means if you think/do a certain thing a lot the connection in the brain that controls this act becomes stronger. If there is something you never do the connection weakens. So with effort if one forces the brain to do/think about something that is unusual the connection increase in strength and it becomes easier. Certain psychedelics can speed up this process with one dose. That is why they are so efficient.

This is not some new-age woo-woo, but something that the scientific community has verified.


"She prays to God, to Buddha, then she sings a Talmud song
Confusions contradict the self, do we know right from wrong

Which is why, for me, it is not at all confusing to pray to God, to Buddha and sing a Talmud song... because they help my brain connect the parts of my brain that needs to be connected in order to find peace within the self, as the song goes.

Hare Krishna.

:cool:

Awani
04-27-2017, 02:25 PM
You know when you hum a song in your head without thinking about it? And then even when you notice, you keep doing it. After some time of this you focus on it and try and stop doing it. At least this happens to me a lot. Usually with songs I don't really like. Today this happened with the Hare Krishna mantra (which I do like).

Listened to an interview with Krishna Das today and he said that the Chant/Mantra remembers you. Because the above thing has kept happening. I notice suddenly that I have been chanting whilst doing other things. It's like opening a portal. It's very interesting. I cannot belive I didn't start doing this sooner. But I kind of know why.

I have been extremly reserved with my emotions (except anger), because of being hurt so many times. I appear almost as a person with no emotions at all. I have a real poker face. This is because my emotional state was buried deep. So when I have worked with chants or sacred songs and such in the past I can only do it when the time is right... and when I am alone... because I become too emotional.

Now I've kinda crossed that threshold because working with these sacred plants for almost a decade now has really opened my heart, and the opening has had an expidential growth. If you are in a compassionate, forgiving, loving, letting go kind of state then what can hurt you? Not much. So there is nothing to protect yourself from.

Maybe that is why I have re-discovered chanting. I think so.

Hara Bham Hara Bham Bham Bham Bolo (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5204-Hara-Shiva-Shankara).

If I talk a lot about chants from India at the moment that is just because I am in that phase currently. You know, some week you listen to Metallica and other times Leonard Cohen. Just how it goes.

:p

Awani
05-15-2017, 08:03 AM
For the last week I have been busy hustling and making moves, so haven't listened a lot to these chants.

Last night I had a very vivid (not lucid) dream. I was on some island like Hawaii. I was gathering material in the forest. I had some sort of stereo with me, and I put on my favourite Hare Krishna chant. Then I left the stereo there in the forest and picked up some wood and began hauling it along a road towards a build site.

Suddenly I could hear the chant boom across the hills at a very loud volume. Other people there heard it too. A few began singing along and I kept working, dragging the wood/lumber. I enjoyed the labour and the music.

I do not recall ever really hearing music so clearly in a dream before, so the below quote seems to contain some truth...


Listened to an interview with Krishna Das today and he said that the Chant/Mantra remembers you.

Today I have been listening to these chants all day at full volume.

Those that doubt magic can do so freely. I do not doubt it, I live it.

:p