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elixirmixer
05-02-2017, 12:28 PM
Galena was taken and poorly calcined.

The finest particles were collected and placed in acetic acid with a little water. After some months the acid took a bright and eventually, deep red colour. The contents were filtered and allowed to evaporate, upon which doing so caused some dark gray-black flakes to precipitate, as well as maintaining a thick red oily goo.

The evaporating dish was left in a weather damaged shed, underneath another glass dish, for some time, perhaps a month or more. (I did not take good care of this experiment, as it was simply for observation purposes to better meditate on correct procedures)

Something interesting occurred.

The red oil crawled to the other side of te plate, leaving the grey precipitate where it was, and then, from out of the red oil, a large mass, with interesting floral shapes, has 'grown' for lack of a better word, out of the lead acetate oils.

At this stage I believe it may be some kind of Sulfur growth, and I was wondering if any of the more experienced chemists here can tell me how to test for sulphur.

Again! I find it VERY interesting that with acetic acid alone, I've taken galena, and have three seperate things, (4 really) a lead precipitate. A "sulphur-growth". A red oil. And the red oil also has crystallised lead acetate around about half the dish.

If anyone is interested I might take a photo tomorrow. Peace

Michael Sternbach
05-02-2017, 03:59 PM
Neat.

Would certainly like to see a picture. :)

JDP
05-02-2017, 06:36 PM
Galena was taken and poorly calcined.

The finest particles were collected and placed in acetic acid with a little water. After some months the acid took a bright and eventually, deep red colour. The contents were filtered and allowed to evaporate, upon which doing so caused some dark gray-black flakes to precipitate, as well as maintaining a thick red oily goo.

The evaporating dish was left in a weather damaged shed, underneath another glass dish, for some time, perhaps a month or more. (I did not take good care of this experiment, as it was simply for observation purposes to better meditate on correct procedures)

Something interesting occurred.

The red oil crawled to the other side of te plate, leaving the grey precipitate where it was, and then, from out of the red oil, a large mass, with interesting floral shapes, has 'grown' for lack of a better word, out of the lead acetate oils.

At this stage I believe it may be some kind of Sulfur growth, and I was wondering if any of the more experienced chemists here can tell me how to test for sulphur.

Again! I find it VERY interesting that with acetic acid alone, I've taken galena, and have three seperate things, (4 really) a lead precipitate. A "sulphur-growth". A red oil. And the red oil also has crystallised lead acetate around about half the dish.

If anyone is interested I might take a photo tomorrow. Peace

Whatever the "red oil" is, it is likely not from lead, as this metal does not form red compounds with acetic acid. Possibly your galena sample has some iron in it.

Ghislain
05-03-2017, 03:31 PM
Would love to see some pics.

Ghislain

elixirmixer
05-07-2017, 10:34 PM
Wow, this sample has really progressed quite rapidly since being exposed into the air.

The what was a yellowish growth hidden underneath red oil, has begun going crystalline and has obtained a beautiful golden sparkle throughout a somewhat transparent deep yellowy crystal.

You guys are so lucky that ive got a camera good enough to get this shot. I want to put it on in HD... what is the best image type and resolution for AF?


Whatever the "red oil" is, it is likely not from lead, as this metal does not form red compounds with acetic acid. Possibly your galena sample has some iron in it. - JDP

I agree that chemically prepared lead and acetate would not result in the red oil, at least, not like this, there are ways to extract a red oil from lead acetate, but im not sure that this is that product, and likely, as you said, it is the result of impurities....

However, things are looking very cool and this has got me really excited to try to reproduce this on a cleaner and more impressive scale because this is defiantly one of the coolest looking curiosities to come out of my backyard madness, and i think it could be made to look very impressive in deed in i rectify it, but first we'll try and work out what it is. Photo coming today i promise.

elixirmixer
05-07-2017, 10:57 PM
979
980
981

elixirmixer
05-07-2017, 11:05 PM
EM's communal-interactive experiments!

What should we do to this Golden Rose?


Dissolve in ether?
Dissolve in ethanol?
DIssolve in nitric acid?
Dissolve in HCL?

elixirmixer
05-11-2017, 01:58 AM
You guys are boring. Are you all really old or something? No fun... no fun.

Well im going to be exciting, and drive to melbourne this weekend to pick up two full gas-chromotography machines that i got for a GREAT BARGAIN!

And then im going to put this really cool stuff in it, and find out what it is, and tell none of you boring old prunes. :eek::p:cool:

JDP
05-11-2017, 07:00 AM
You guys are boring. Are you all really old or something? No fun... no fun.

Well im going to be exciting, and drive to melbourne this weekend to pick up two full gas-chromotography machines that i got for a GREAT BARGAIN!

And then im going to put this really cool stuff in it, and find out what it is, and tell none of you boring old prunes. :eek::p:cool:

Hey, I did offer you one possible answer to why the "red oil" formed, namely: it might be because of the presence of iron or some other metal that is forming a red compound with the vinegar.

elixirmixer
05-11-2017, 07:10 AM
Hey, I did offer you one possible answer to why the "red oil" formed, namely: it might be because of the presence of iron or some other metal that is forming a red compound with the vinegar.

This is a valid observation and may well be the case, however, lead does on occasion produce a red oil through its acetate, its my understanding that typically acetic acid is not that great a solvent for iron, and that when making metallic oils, we substitute vinegar for citric acid. Mind you, This was in the flask quite some time, just sitting in the grass in the backyard somewhere, before it went red.

I'm interested to know, mainly because there is a distinct 3 part separation from filtered oils, and that it seems to be quite active, almost alive in that it grew, if you look at the pictures, you'll notice that there actually isn't any oil around the growth, and the weight from gravity, took those heavy dark precipitates to one side of the plate, and once it was level again, and over time in a semi-protected environment it grew these yellow crystals, that, at the time i first wrote about them looked very transparent but by the time i had taken the photo they had gained more of the golden-orange colour.

The reason im interested in this, is because, such as there is so much mystery and lies embedded into the herbal alchemical culture, I suspect it is the same in the metallic realm, and i like this as a starting point for lead because, I feel, like this little yellow growth probably plays a large part in the Stone of Saturn, (at least, the one that's actually made out of lead) and yeah.. i could go on but you get the point.

Are there any of the acids i listed that could give hints to whether or not this is sulfur (vulgur) JDP?

black
05-11-2017, 07:38 AM
EM's communal-interactive experiments!

What should we do to this Golden Rose?


Dissolve in ether?
Dissolve in ethanol?
DIssolve in nitric acid?
Dissolve in HCL?


5. Dig hole in backyard drop in GOLDEN ROSE and cover with
copious amount of horse manure and fill in hole and WAIT......
till the desert sands freeze over and the camels come skating home.


Being a bit of a naturist I pick number 5.

JDP
05-11-2017, 07:45 AM
This is a valid observation and may well be the case, however, lead does on occasion produce a red oil through its acetate, its my understanding that typically acetic acid is not that great a solvent for iron, and that when making metallic oils, we substitute vinegar for citric acid. Mind you, This was in the flask quite some time, just sitting in the grass in the backyard somewhere, before it went red.

I'm interested to know, mainly because there is a distinct 3 part separation from filtered oils, and that it seems to be quite active, almost alive in that it grew, if you look at the pictures, you'll notice that there actually isn't any oil around the growth, and the weight from gravity, took those heavy dark precipitates to one side of the plate, and once it was level again, and over time in a semi-protected environment it grew these yellow crystals, that, at the time i first wrote about them looked very transparent but by the time i had taken the photo they had gained more of the golden-orange colour.

The reason im interested in this, is because, such as there is so much mystery and lies embedded into the herbal alchemical culture, I suspect it is the same in the metallic realm, and i like this as a starting point for lead because, I feel, like this little yellow growth probably plays a large part in the Stone of Saturn, (at least, the one that's actually made out of lead) and yeah.. i could go on but you get the point.

I have distilled lead acetate in the past, and the "oil" that you obtain from it is yellow, not "red". Plus you have to distill it, a simple maceration will not give any "red" product with lead alone. Acetic acid does dissolve iron, and it gives a red acetate.


Are there any of the acids i listed that could give hints to whether or not this is sulfur (vulgur) JDP?

I am not sure what you want to do. If I were you I would just do basic qualitative tests of samples of the reddish liquor to find out what metal is actually causing it. Just put samples of it in test tubes and add reagents like sodium or potassium carbonate or hydroxide solution, potassium ferrocyanide or ferricyanide solution, potassium thiocyanate solution, etc. and observe the colors of the precipitates or solutions formed. Since iron is the main "suspect" here, you will likely observe these precipitates and colored solutions forming:

http://www.public.asu.edu/~jpbirk/qual/qualanal/iron.html

elixirmixer
05-11-2017, 08:01 AM
You are probably right JDP, however, I dont want the oil to be yellow, I want it to be red.

So I am going to stay in denial, and believe that it is the lead, and not iron. :p

Calcined galena is well reputed to create a red oil. Its mainly lead and sulfur. I will run more tests in the future and revisit these discussions.

black
05-11-2017, 02:28 PM
You guys are boring. Are you all really old or something? No fun... no fun.

Well im going to be exciting, and drive to melbourne this weekend to pick up two full gas-chromotography machines that i got for a GREAT BARGAIN!

And then im going to put this really cool stuff in it, and find out what it is, and tell none of you boring old prunes. :eek::p:cool:

Hey Mr. Mixer

I added number 5. in response to the above...boring old prunes, no fun.

Please don't take it seriously.

elixirmixer
05-11-2017, 10:37 PM
Lol, it actually probably woul give me
More interestin results. I may have some time later today to perform some tests on it.