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pierre
05-15-2017, 12:14 PM
Hi everyone...

I have found a reference to the Secret Fire in Fulcanelli, but he is another author who complement to us this informción:

Further, we shall soon find other figures referring either to the production or to the qualities of this secret fire enclosed in water, which constitutes the universal solvent. Now, the matter which is used to prepare it is the very object of the fourth motif: a man shows an image of the Ram and holds in his right hand an object, which unfortunately cannot be distinguished today. Is it a mineral, a fragment of an emblem, a utensil, or a piece of material?
I do not know. Time and vandalism have had their way. At any rate, the Ram remains, and the man, the hieroglyph of the male metallic principle, personifies it. This helps us to understand these words of Pernety: The Adepts say that they draw their steel from the belly of Aries, and they also call this steel their lodestone

If we go to Alexander Von Bernus, he give to us the exact name of the matter we are looking for, and Fulcanelli mentions.

Regards...

zoas23
05-17-2017, 01:00 AM
Surprised that there have been no answers.
I am in "flu mode" with my brain working at 0.1% of its speed.

I remember von Bernus going somehow strong against the Golden Chain of Homer and stating that it's a tricky text because it unveils 50% of the truth, the volatile part of the work, but never mentions the fixed part of the work.

Is that your idea?

alfr
05-17-2017, 03:34 AM
Hi every body

i think this quote by one very rare and not know manuscript operative of Weidenfeld that go more deep of him book prodromus (i put in pst before ) on secret fire etc
i think this quote can are very clear about fire secret of pontanus etc and where we can in miscrocosmic "essence liquid"identification and found it (but after found it made it is a little more complicate and more deep....but step by step ... we will arrive together to well analized and made it by to study deep the many him clear manuscrits ehere this secret fire etc and the relative instruction about it in this manuscri vey little know are all very very clear ) imho very mportant is in this test the final quote as always i say of cristoforo parigino work (book an manuscript of the disciple of lullo the cristoforo parigino summetta violetta lucidarius etc.. are very very caritable and generous)

my best regard

quote:

Book of Hermes
of 7 chapters, on page 604, vol.4 of Th. Chem.:
Understand, he says, and accept the Gift of God,
and keep it secret from all follish
17
633.jpg from Theatrum Chemicum Electroni
It is hidden in the caverns of metals, which is
venerable stone, of splendid colour, the high
mountain and the open sea. Behold! I explained
to you. You should give thanks to God, who
taught you this thought. For he loves those who
are thankful.
John Dastin in his Book, called
Donum Dei”,
reads this thought of Hermes thus; Our Stone is
hidden in the caverns of metals. Which
disposition is single. And among us and with us it
is needed. Which remedy, taking and permanent
you can have with yourself in earth or in sea. Truly
it is procreated in earth and is compared to earth,
which earth is mineral. The color of which
venerable Stone is splendid. A high Mountain and
an open Sea.
By the high mountain Hermes had understood the
masculine nature of our Hermaphroditic Subject,
as just we have shown in the writing about the
masculine nature, moreover by the sea should be
understood the feminine nature. From this we
deduce that only a single philosophical matter is
allowed. As a result it is necessary that the origin
of the open sea should be drawn from this high
mountain of the philosophers. Of which, in order
to become us more certain, it is necessary to
consult microcosmical philosophers, and chiefly among
these the most learned Master Christopher of
Paris, since he described our mountain as clearly
as possible without any figure or metaphor, that
likewise perhaps with his same mercy and
kindness he will lead us together to the open
philosophical sea, in which salty waters
doubtlessly we will find hidden that humid fire of
Pontanus or that feminine nature of our Chemical
Hermaphrodite.

pierre
05-17-2017, 01:16 PM
Hello Zoas,

My intention was to call the attention towards Von Bernus, because he complements the appointment of fulcanelli giving the common name of the terrestrial magnet.

In a part of his book von Bernus mentions that some texts give predominance to the winged dragoon, more that to the terrestrial one, like concealing the terrestrial magnet, yes, but I do not remember if he mentions the golden chain...

pierre
05-17-2017, 01:34 PM
alfr... Does text refer to the marine salt?



Hi every body

i think this quote by one very rare and not know manuscript operative of Weidenfeld that go more deep of him book prodromus (i put in pst before ) on secret fire etc
i think this quote can are very clear about fire secret of pontanus etc and where we can in miscrocosmic "essence liquid"identification and found it (but after found it made it is a little more complicate and more deep....but step by step we arrived to this ) imho very mportant is in this test the final quote as always i say of cristoforo parigino work (book an manuscript of the disciple of lullo the cristoforo parigino summetta violetta lucidarius etc.. are very very caritable and generous)

my best regard

quote:

Book of Hermes
of 7 chapters, on page 604, vol.4 of Th. Chem.:
Understand, he says, and accept the Gift of God,
and keep it secret from all follish
17
633.jpg from Theatrum Chemicum Electroni
It is hidden in the caverns of metals, which is
venerable stone, of splendid colour, the high
mountain and the open sea. Behold! I explained
to you. You should give thanks to God, who
taught you this thought. For he loves those who
are thankful.
John Dastin in his Book, called
Donum Dei”,
reads this thought of Hermes thus; Our Stone is
hidden in the caverns of metals. Which
disposition is single. And among us and with us it
is needed. Which remedy, taking and permanent
you can have with yourself in earth or in sea. Truly
it is procreated in earth and is compared to earth,
which earth is mineral. The color of which
venerable Stone is splendid. A high Mountain and
an open Sea.
By the high mountain Hermes had understood the
masculine nature of our Hermaphroditic Subject,
as just we have shown in the writing about the
masculine nature, moreover by the sea should be
understood the feminine nature. From this we
deduce that only a single philosophical matter is
allowed. As a result it is necessary that the origin
of the open sea should be drawn from this high
mountain of the philosophers. Of which, in order
to become us more certain, it is necessary to
consult microcosmical philosophers, and chiefly among
these the most learned Master Christopher of
Paris, since he described our mountain as clearly
as possible without any figure or metaphor, that
likewise perhaps with his same mercy and
kindness he will lead us together to the open
philosophical sea, in which salty waters
doubtlessly we will find hidden that humid fire of
Pontanus or that feminine nature of our Chemical
Hermaphrodite.

alfr
05-17-2017, 03:44 PM
hi pierre
in manuscrit of Weidenfeld is very clear that is not only it (about read well prodromus that i have post all is clear in it ) this is substance liquid is the key of the sal armoniac it but imho is a simbol for understand one matter liquid microcosmic sulphurea that have inside the fire secret that lullo cristoforo parigino (parigino ..say very clear it and as to do it in manuscript summetta violetta lucidarius etc (mss parigino etc are also in internet is enough Read and study in it all explication is form very clear....and about it see well also the book experimenta of lullo ..)
and many alachimist use it for made menstrum philosophical and spiritus vini philosophici by it and by this philosophical dissolution of some metal can so have the gun reen adrops the true solar magnet and the withe sal almiac for made all color of the stone phil fases

my best regard alfr

Illen A. Cluf
05-17-2017, 04:05 PM
Hi everyone...

I have found a reference to the Secret Fire in Fulcanelli, but he is another author who complement to us this informción:

Further, we shall soon find other figures referring either to the production or to the qualities of this secret fire enclosed in water, which constitutes the universal solvent. Now, the matter which is used to prepare it is the very object of the fourth motif: a man shows an image of the Ram and holds in his right hand an object, which unfortunately cannot be distinguished today. Is it a mineral, a fragment of an emblem, a utensil, or a piece of material?
I do not know. Time and vandalism have had their way. At any rate, the Ram remains, and the man, the hieroglyph of the male metallic principle, personifies it. This helps us to understand these words of Pernety: The Adepts say that they draw their steel from the belly of Aries, and they also call this steel their lodestone

If we go to Alexander Von Bernus, he give to us the exact name of the matter we are looking for, and Fulcanelli mentions.

Regards...

Which book by Von Bernus are you referring to, Pierre? Alquimia y Medicina? Is there an English translation of this book available?

pierre
05-17-2017, 04:20 PM
Yes, that book, Illen
I look for in my archives. I guess I saw a English version of it.


Which book by Von Bernus are you referring to, Pierre? Alquimia y Medicina? Is there an English translation of this book available?

Kiorionis
05-17-2017, 04:45 PM
Now, the matter which is used to prepare it is the very object of the fourth motif: a man shows an image of the Ram and holds in his right hand an object, which unfortunately cannot be distinguished today. Is it a mineral, a fragment of an emblem, a utensil, or a piece of material?

I think a betterrible question is: "how is it useful, and how is it used, in relation to the Man and the Ram?"

Edit: better**

pierre
05-17-2017, 05:27 PM
I suspect that here, the mysterious object is mentioned so specifically because of not making the importance of the lamb, evident.
It remains like that, the attention derived to another place: the mysterious object.


I think a betterrible question is: "how is it useful, and how is it used, in relation to the Man and the Ram?"

Kiorionis
05-18-2017, 01:28 AM
The lamb?

zoas23
05-18-2017, 02:00 AM
Hello Zoas,

My intention was to call the attention towards Von Bernus, because he complements the appointment of fulcanelli giving the common name of the terrestrial magnet.

In a part of his book von Bernus mentions that some texts give predominance to the winged dragoon, more that to the terrestrial one, like concealing the terrestrial magnet, yes, but I do not remember if he mentions the golden chain...

He says:


The alchemists knew perfectly well that there was nothing to obtain by only having the knowledge of the superior fire, it can't be used [alone] to prepare the arcana, nor to prepare the philosopher's stone. They mention their astral fire, their winged upper dragon, they explain it very pleasantly, but it's only to distract the attention of the reader from the lower dragonw that was always left in the dark [alternative translation: "that it was never even mentioned"]. This trick can easily be found in the Aurea Catena Homeri, which is actually an admirable work, because on the other hand, it contains no deliberate deception, but all the attention is focused there on the upper dragon, and nothing is said about the dragon from below, so that whoever works according to these indications will not obtain any satisfactory result and will not even notice that something essential has been omitted in the text

I am terrible in Spanish-to-English translations... it is easier to write something with my own words than translating and trying to remain loyal to the text (and this one would be an indirect translation, since it's from Spanish to English)...

But I assume the translation is clear enough, his idea is that the Golden Chain gives 50% of the truth, but willingly plays with the reader by not telling him that there's a "counterpart" to the "upper dragon".

Illen A. Cluf
05-18-2017, 02:54 AM
Yes, that book, Illen
I look for in my archives. I guess I saw a English version of it.

The only versions I'm aware of besides German, is a French and Spanish translation. I have not come across an English translation.

Salazius
05-18-2017, 08:16 AM
This helps us to understand these words of Pernety: The Adepts say that they draw their steel from the belly of Aries, and they also call this steel their lodestone

That's right, that is the confection of the remora.

pierre
05-18-2017, 02:16 PM
Yes, you are right. That´s what he says... No doubts about it.


He says:



I am terrible in Spanish-to-English translations... it is easier to write something with my own words than translating and trying to remain loyal to the text (and this one would be an indirect translation, since it's from Spanish to English)...

But I assume the translation is clear enough, his idea is that the Golden Chain gives 50% of the truth, but willingly plays with the reader by not telling him that there's a "counterpart" to the "upper dragon".

pierre
05-18-2017, 02:25 PM
I can´t find that book in englih... Sorry Illen, I must have got it wrong.


The only versions I'm aware of besides German, is a French and Spanish translation. I have not come across an English translation.

pierre
05-18-2017, 02:29 PM
Thanks for your answer, Salazius...
Can you give us some details about that?


That's right, that is the confection of the remora.

Salazius
05-18-2017, 04:01 PM
Thanks for your answer, Salazius...
Can you give us some details about that?

Well, "water" is a principle, not only H2O of course. And here Fulcanelli speaks clearly about "Our Water", the one that give birth to Aphrodite.

Of course fishes live in water and that's where they are found.

Aries is the Water. Ares is what can capture the Aphrodite/Remora/ purified Sulfur.

pierre
05-18-2017, 04:56 PM
It makes me remember the appointment of fulcanelli, that the metallic sulphur is the universal spirit materialized in them, or something like that...


Well, "water" is a principle, not only H2O of course. And here Fulcanelli speaks clearly about "Our Water", the one that give birth to Aphrodite.

Of course fishes live in water and that's where they are found.

Aries is the Water. Ares is what can capture the Aphrodite/Remora/ purified Sulfur.