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Axismundi000
06-04-2017, 09:04 PM
So gallium melts at 29.76 Centigrade but would be hard to distill because it boils at 2400 Centigrade. Does it dissolve other metals to form an amalgam like Mercury. With the right equipment you could distil off the other metals leaving the gallium behind. Kind of the opposite of what is often described for Mercury (Hg) where that is distilled over leaving for example ferrous sulphide behind.

For example antimony boils at 1587 Centigrade and melts at 630.6 Centigrade. So if you don't get an amalgam with gallium and antimony you should get an alloy and then as the temperature increases the antimony will distil leaving the gallium behind. This would require specialist gear the boiling flask actualy made of firebrick and the 'cooling' tube leaving through the little hole in the furnace door the same or maybe asbestos. The receiving flask Quartz.

I have known guys with the facilities to do this kind of stuff but they never struck me as the kind of folks who would go in to the lab on a spare Sunday and give something like this a try.

Just a thought experiment.;)

https://youtu.be/iPlhdzMKp6A

Lapis Solaris
06-07-2017, 05:01 AM
I think it's a beneficial idea to use gallium as a philosophical mercury as it's non-toxic but shares the elemental principles of literal mercury. It is not acid, nor alkali, at a molecular level it will push itself between the crystals of another metal and will push it apart. Though some differences like wetting the glass vessel which mercury doesn't do (which makes it tricky/messy to work with). So you should be able to put in extra work to clean the glassware.

It's as much a negative as a positive that you can separate other materials out of it due to it having such a high melting point because likewise you can't distill it. So how do you give it that "air" quality? It should be able to be vaporised and materialised again, you can't do that without extreme heat. Gallium (unlike mercury) is fixed. It takes extreme heat to distill it. But if you can somehow make the fixed become volatile, spiritualise/volatilise the philosophical mercury...

Something should be done to tweak it to distill it at a much lower temperature than it normally would. If you can make the spiritual become fixed and the fixed, spiritual then you then have the most simplified explanation of how to make the Stone.

Axismundi000
06-07-2017, 11:38 AM
Interesting and more practical. To in some way volatize gallium so that it can come over the still-head perhaps with some other substance kind of dragging it up and across? What materials and compounds react with gallium to give a liquid with a lower distilling temperature.

Hydrochloric acid maybe?

Andro
06-07-2017, 01:02 PM
Acids are a useful and efficient medium for volatilization.

No idea how they work with metals though (never tried it with metals), but the Acid/Subject ratio of the mix should favor the Acid. Also, I would also use a stronger acid...


Interesting and more practical. To in some way volatize gallium so that it can come over the still-head perhaps with some other substance kind of dragging it up and across? What materials and compounds react with gallium to give a liquid with a lower distilling temperature.

Hydrochloric acid maybe?

Salazius
06-07-2017, 01:22 PM
Hydrochloric acid maybe?

The solution is not totally in the spirit, but in the repetition.
You can use an aqua regia or acetic acid, as far as the compound is chemically stable.

Axismundi000
06-07-2017, 05:16 PM
Acetic acid doesn't react with Gallium but the metal does react with both nitric and hydrocloric do so I imagine Aqua Regia would also work. I don't think acetic acid will react with the gallium salt either. So Nitric acid could work to volatize the gallium, bring it over the still-head by dry distilling the gallium nitrate salt.

This is a really interesting idea to volatize the gallium so that it will destil in the normal lab-glass temperature range then doing something similar to the Mercury (Hg) eagles but with gallium.

Lapis Solaris
06-07-2017, 07:42 PM
To in some way volatize gallium so that it can come over the still-head perhaps with some other substance kind of dragging it up and across?

Yes, that's exactly what I mean.


You can use an aqua regia or acetic acid, as far as the compound is chemically stable.

I was going to suggest aqua regia, but you said it first. :)

I'm also interested to see how it would react additionally with potassium (for its "climbing salt" effect). Though I think I'd also want to dissolve it in the acid to break the particles down enough. Haven't had the chance to try it though.

Axismundi000
06-08-2017, 07:00 AM
So a bit of online research shows that Nitric acid is the main thing to start with and also employ sodium or bromine. Overal however this seems to me to be a labour of Hercules. I think numerous iterations would be required. The essential difficulty of distilling gallium requires either incredibly high spec cutting edge equipment or laborious dry distilling of gallium compounds to volatize.

The general chat on this has been much appreciated.

zoas23
06-09-2017, 12:24 AM
The solution is not totally in the spirit, but in the repetition.

One of the best hints I've seen recently!!! And you are right, well, of course you are right.

Axismundi000
06-09-2017, 08:22 AM
Now we have reached this I will leave this thread with my genuine thanks for the interesting responses to the thought experiment. I do not perceive Salazius's posts as 'hinting' they seem rather clear to me. The 'cult of being special' is an endemic disease within occultism and clearly also Alchemy as part of the occult, or here on this forum at least. When I was more in the occult social scene this cult of being special, people alluding to special mysteries was like some kind or persistent stale fart. So no surprises here.

Narcissism!

zoas23
06-09-2017, 07:59 PM
Now we have reached this I will leave this thread with my genuine thanks for the interesting responses to the thought experiment. I do not perceive Salazius's posts as 'hinting' they seem rather clear to me. The 'cult of being special' is an endemic disease within occultism and clearly also Alchemy as part of the occult, or here on this forum at least. When I was more in the occult social scene this cult of being special, people alluding to special mysteries was like some kind or persistent stale fart. So no surprises here.

Narcissism!

1) Oh, yeah, I admire Salazius a lot!!!! (no irony here, I admire him a lot). I admire a lot of persons... in most cases they are artists, though I also admire my girlfriend and I also admire most of my friends (I somehow can't have a good friendship with someone I do not admire for some reason). How is this related to "the occult", I have no idea.

2) When it comes to Salazius, yes, I think he is VERY special. I adore his delicacy, his elegance, his way of being very artistic (some years ago I talked to him as to include photos of his alchemical works in a photography exhibition with professional photographers, the audience who knew nothing about the background of Salazius rushed to his photos due to their beauty).

3) I see in the post of Salazius I quoted one of the BIG solutions to the riddle... if that's OBVIOUS and CLEAR to you, then congratulations!!!!!!!

4) I am a narcissist because I said that Salazius said something that I found accurate and very useful???? Are you completely insane?

5) What the hell is wrong with you???? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPOwI4PvvA8) LOL, I don't get you... I simply get that each time I post you have a problem even if I make a somehow harmless comment like "I love this idea, way to go!". The "occult"??? What the hell is "the occult" related to anything I've said???? Gosh... Give it a rest, won't you? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miFUuwh9qMk) Your aggressive tone that comes out of nowhere and for no reason is simply... idiotic... and absolutely not necessary.

Axismundi000
06-10-2017, 07:53 AM
I stand by my personal opinion based on my experience. Frankly when I consider some of the views and opinions given here, often contradictory and which I personally find patronising. I find the phrase grow a pair springs to mind.

At the same time I appreciate a lot of the fascinating observations and opinions. This dichotomy is not a problem and is i think an inherent characteristic of online forums. Also I am going off topic.

Salazius
06-10-2017, 04:45 PM
1) Oh, yeah, I admire Salazius a lot!!!! (no irony here, I admire him a lot)

2) When it comes to Salazius, yes, I think he is VERY special. I adore his delicacy, his elegance, his way of being very artistic (some years ago I talked to him as to include photos of his alchemical works in a photography exhibition with professional photographers, the audience who knew nothing about the background of Salazius rushed to his photos due to their beauty).

3) I see in the post of Salazius I quoted one of the BIG solutions to the riddle... if that's OBVIOUS and CLEAR to you, then congratulations!

Oh please stop. :D
Nothing special nor new in what I've said above.

I'm a normal guy imo. Nothing to talk about.

zoas23
06-10-2017, 06:01 PM
I stand by my personal opinion based on my experience. Frankly when I consider some of the views and opinions given here, often contradictory and which I personally find patronising. I find the phrase grow a pair springs to mind.
At the same time I appreciate a lot of the fascinating observations and opinions. This dichotomy is not a problem and is i think an inherent characteristic of online forums. Also I am going off topic.

You keep your opinion??? The problem is that was not an opinion, but an explicit insult.
Yes, I know you have dichotomies, like this weird tendency to insult me recurrently out of nowhere... when I simply saw something that was interesting for me and I said that I liked it, but even such thing was a proper excuse for you. I'm not your punching bag, sir.

The dichotomies are not intrinsic or inherent of online forums... it's just you being you.
Other than that, a dichotomy that is more interesting than insulting someone else just because can lead you to very interesting results.


Oh please stop. :D
Nothing special nor new in what I've said above.
I'm a normal guy imo. Nothing to talk about.

A normal guy with an outstanding artistic talent.
Other than that, your comment about the idea of using a repetition has been incredibly useful for me whilst working with metals. Especially if the repetition involves a dichotomy, which can be many different things (i.e, a strong acid followed by a weak acid... and then the same thing again several times. Other repetitions don't really need acids). Such thing may cause the metals react in surprising ways.

... Though I assume that saying it is "patronising", "occult", "stale farts", and whatever.

Kiorionis
06-11-2017, 12:27 AM
Zoas23 and Axismundi000, please go re-read the forum's Rules & Guidelines (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/announcement.php?f=2&a=3). You'll find once again that insults, trolling and starting 'flame wars' are not allowed.

I would hate to have to warn either of you or close what could potentially be a very interesting and enlightening thread.

Axismundi000
06-11-2017, 12:37 AM
Noted.

Again I appreciate the various observations and suggestions about volatizing.

Dendritic Xylem
06-11-2017, 07:43 PM
Convert the Gallium into a chloride, and then do a vacuum distillation.

https://www.google.com/patents/US4666575


Also, read the paragraph titled "purification of gallium" in the following link...

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01318a017?journalCode=jacsat

Axismundi000
06-11-2017, 08:33 PM
This info is fascinating and produces a new thought experiment.

Add mineral sulphur to Gallium and heat until gallium is liquid leave it like that for maybe a few months. Then increase heat to distil off the Sulphur and then add hydrochloric acid to the gallium left behind after it has cooled to give Gallium trichloride. Wikipedia says gallium trichloride boils at 201 Centigrade so vacuum distil for a lower temp. Then gently electrolyse to separate gallium. If this works the main challenge I think is getting all this to be 'philosophic', not lose the subtle energies during the procedures.

Also does Gallium form an amalgam with gold like Mercury (Ag) does?

Edit: A bit of on-line checking, I think liquid gallium would make amalgam with gold powder. But to subsequently separate maybe Hydrochloric acid then distill the gallium chloride off the gold.

I got a few hits mentioning LaPort, is this the kind of stuff he is doing?

Seth-Ra
06-12-2017, 12:37 AM
Best advice I can give about it's amalgamation properties; try it. :D
Its cheap to do, to buy some gallium and some gold leaf.

To make a thing Philosophic is the trick; same for the gold.

In short; it will work - just gotta understand how/why.
Yall's thought processes on it are in the right direction, and Salazius is right about the repetitions.

:D

Kiorionis
06-12-2017, 01:29 AM
Then increase heat to distil off the Sulphur and then add hydrochloric acid to the gallium left behind after it has cooled to give Gallium trichloride. Wikipedia says gallium trichloride boils at 201 Centigrade so vacuum distil for a lower temp. Then gently electrolyse to separate gallium.

Interesting thought-experiment, but I have two comments.

Sulphur the element melts at 115C (according to Wiki) so I think it would be difficult to evaporate it off gallium which melts at 29C...
Next, the alchemical Sulphur probably shouldn't be evaporated away. Then there is nothing to work with.

Not saying it won't work, because I don't work with metals so much.

Axismundi000
06-12-2017, 01:42 AM
Interesting thought-experiment, but I have two comments.

Sulphur the element melts at 115C (according to Wiki) so I think it would be difficult to evaporate it off gallium which melts at 29C...
Next, the alchemical Sulphur probably shouldn't be evaporated away. Then there is nothing to work with.

My thinking is the Sulphur mineral will cook off as you say at 444C the gallium staying behind because it needs over 2000C. Then add HCl to make GaCl3 which distils at 201C apparently. The question to be discovered is I think if the Sulphur mineral leaves behind its subtle Sulphur in the Gallium or not because it is the opposite way to when you use mineral Sulphur with mercury(Ag) when that has been distilled off ferrous sulphide that was made from being added to Mercury sulphide. The iron is important in that so I'm not sure if the subtle/Alchemical Sulphur is left behind when you cook off the Sulphur mineral in this thought experiment. There needs to be another intermediary like the iron with the Mercury and Sulphur mineral in the cinnabar method.

The reason I'm interested in this is that gallium is far less toxic than mercury(Ag).

Kiorionis
06-12-2017, 02:18 AM
My thinking is the Sulphur mineral will cook off as you say at 444C the gallium staying behind because it needs over 2000C. Then add HCl to make GaCl3 which distils at 201C apparently. The question to be discovered is I think if the Sulphur mineral leaves behind its subtle Sulphur in the Gallium or not because it is the opposite way to when you use mineral Sulphur with mercury(Ag) when that has been distilled off ferrous sulphide that was made from being added to Mercury sulphide. The iron is important in that so I'm not sure if the subtle/Alchemical Sulphur is left behind when you cook off the Sulphur mineral in this thought experiment. There needs to be another intermediary like the iron with the Mercury and Sulphur mineral in the cinnabar method.

The reason I'm interested in this is that gallium is far less toxic than mercury(Ag).

Haha well the Sulphur is always hanging around during thought-experiments. Not always true in practice.

So I misunderstood gallium. It melts at a lower point than sulphur but boils at a higher point?

Seth-Ra
06-12-2017, 03:15 AM
Mineral/literal sulfur isn't the Alchemical Sulphur necessary for this to work.

Know the Sulphur, and it's child's play, and you'll get your Philosophical Cinnabar, which starts as a black earth, and can be called our dragon, watch its breath...

Even if done poorly, one should be able to get something of some value. To do it well, it needs a lot of Philosphical Sulfphur, Quintessence. But it'll work to varying degrees regardless.
I also recommend studying the Celestial times as well; Solar Eclipses are especially nice for kicking this off, and one is coming to the US soon...

If ya know how to extract an oil using a form of literal sulfur, it can be a decent test to later determine the amount of Quintessence within it.
Gur holds far more - but it's key to infuse it (Quintessence) into the mineral, to breath life into it.
That's how the magick will happen.

If you have read up on gallium, you may have noticed it replaces iron in the body - this work is literally making an Alchemical blood... an immortal blood. Ambrosia, if you will. Try to think of it as such. :)

Axismundi000
06-12-2017, 11:52 AM
@Kiorionis yes my online searches show Gallium becomes liquid at 29C but boils at 2400C.

Seth-Ra your observation about gallium and blood indicates to me that gallium may be like the iron in the cinnabar method. In the cinnabar method the iron I think is considered masculine and the Mercury (Ag) feminine. Gallium it would seem is masculine from its relationship to iron in blood so it is perhaps somehow a masculine menstruum where Mercury (Ag) is considered feminine in the cinnabar work. So seeking an analogy with Gallium and mineral Sulphur adding some copper for the feminine perhaps; (antimony regulus I read uses copper and if memory serves correct the copper is viewed as feminine). In practical terms heating the mineral Sulphur to distil it off is very unlikely to produce either gallium sulphide or copper sulphide due to lack of oxygen in direct contact with the metals when the mineral Sulphur is in liquid form, especially if vacuum distilled (I would hope this is so otherwise this would be a problem). Then once cooled adding Hydrochloric acid would give gallium chloride and copper chloride. There is a big temperature difference between boiling points of these two so fractional distillation is fairly straightforward. The distilled gallium chloride separated by electrolysis as before.

I'm really enjoying all this and I'm starting to seriously consider practical testing. It would be big fun whatever the outcome.

Seth-Ra
06-12-2017, 02:28 PM
Seth-Ra your observation about gallium and blood indicates to me that gallium may be like the iron in the cinnabar method. In the cinnabar method the iron I think is considered masculine and the Mercury (Ag) feminine. Gallium it would seem is masculine from its relationship to iron in blood so it is perhaps somehow a masculine menstruum where Mercury (Ag) is considered feminine in the cinnabar work. So seeking an analogy with Gallium and mineral Sulphur adding some copper for the feminine perhaps; (antimony regulus I read uses copper and if memory serves correct the copper is viewed as feminine). In practical terms heating the mineral Sulphur to distil it off is very unlikely to produce either gallium sulphide or copper sulphide due to lack of oxygen in direct contact with the metals when the mineral Sulphur is in liquid form, especially if vacuum distilled (I would hope this is so otherwise this would be a problem). Then once cooled adding Hydrochloric acid would give gallium chloride and copper chloride. There is a big temperature difference between boiling points of these two so fractional distillation is fairly straightforward. The distilled gallium chloride separated by electrolysis as before.

I'm really enjoying all this and I'm starting to seriously consider practical testing. It would be big fun whatever the outcome.


Oh, no, the gallium is Feminine.
It takes the place of iron in an organic system; yes. But it'll cause anemia for the same reason. It doesn't possess the active charge - the Sulphur to enable life. (It's also used for killing certain viruses, as they'll use it as iron and suphocate to death for the attempt. Lololol :D)
So, what it is, is basically the serum; and it will directly interface with your blood. It still needs the Sulphur to it.
I've been researching using a Sulphur more perfect than iron's, but much like the gallium is the Mercury/Serum, so to is the metal used for the Sulphur, a container for the Quintessence (the subtle, True Sulphur).

I've not bothered with copper as it's a lesser than gold.
Gold follows the colors once it's prepared rightly. First it has to die. Then it has to live anew. Black, then green, then... ;)

You'll enjoy the practical work. :)

Axismundi000
06-12-2017, 05:05 PM
If the gallium is feminine that makes it much more straightforward practically. Add iron filings to the gallium and Sulphur in the same way as cinnabar method to get gallium and ferrous sulphide. Then add Hydrochloric acid to get Ferrous Chloride, gallium chloride and give off stinky Hydrogen Sulphide. The gallium chloride can be distilled over leaving behind the Ferrous Chloride I'm thinking. So it is virtually the same as cinnabar procedure but you use Hydrochloric acid to lower the distil temperature of the gallium which then is separated by hydrolysis after it has come over the still head. Also the Gallium has not chemically bonded with the Sulphur like Mercury (Hg) and then as a sulphide heated to change molecular shape. So the number of iterations to activate the gallium as a menstruum would be more than 7-10 times approx which is what authors suggest for Mercury (Hg) in cinnabar procedure. If this works the real challenge is to keep the work philosophic in nature.

What is really needed is another mineral that bonds with Gallium but can be striped away by another metal. Then this making gallium chloride trick with the other metal salt having a much higher boiling point. The essential problem with pure Gallium metal is the very high boiling point.

BTW I have been accidentally putting Ag instead of Hg I mean element Mercury not silver, apologies.