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Visceral
07-27-2017, 08:57 PM
And I have a sneaking suspicion that it's the very first step. But I can't be sure. I posted it around somewhere but I'll outline my triple experiment based on readings of the mutus liber and the golden chain of homer.

1) the first jar is partially filled with sea salt and left open to the first full moon under Aries. A very small splash of water was added to the very center and 3 OMs intoned into it before the lid was sealed.

2) the second was filled halfway with raw earth from a shallow pit I dug where a small child had shown interest the day before.

3) the third was left open to the rays of the moon itself at high midnight til approx 1 am.

All the jars were left outside (the first 2 with the lids open, water was added to jar 1 after being brought back inside.

I checked back on my jars a few days ago and not surprisingly they were not filled with magical gold producing dew. However both the empty jar (3) and the salt jar (1) show specks of condensation on the inside of the glass, which kind of surprises me in that I expected the salt would hold and absorb any moisture in the container and I wouldn't expect any atmospheric moisture trapped in the jar to condense on the side in one bubble. The jar filled with earth has turned from soil brown to a solid deep black, but I can't be sure that's actually putrefaction. Would be amazing if it was though!

I'll post pictures after work, just had it fresh on my mind and thought I'd try to collect some thoughts on it. :D

Schmuldvich
07-27-2017, 10:42 PM
And I have a sneaking suspicion that it's the very first step. But I can't be sure. I posted it around somewhere but I'll outline my triple experiment based on readings of the mutus liber and the golden chain of homer.

1) the first jar is partially filled with sea salt and left open to the first full moon under Aries. A very small splash of water was added to the very center and 3 OMs intoned into it before the lid was sealed.

2) the second was filled halfway with raw earth from a shallow pit I dug where a small child had shown interest the day before.

3) the third was left open to the rays of the moon itself at high midnight til approx 1 am.

All the jars were left outside (the first 2 with the lids open, water was added to jar 1 after being brought back inside.

I checked back on my jars a few days ago and not surprisingly they were not filled with magical gold producing dew. However both the empty jar (3) and the salt jar (1) show specks of condensation on the inside of the glass, which kind of surprises me in that I expected the salt would hold and absorb any moisture in the container and I wouldn't expect any atmospheric moisture trapped in the jar to condense on the side in one bubble. The jar filled with earth has turned from soil brown to a solid deep black, but I can't be sure that's actually putrefaction. Would be amazing if it was though!

It is important to remember that texts such as "The Golden Chain Of Homer" are not written exoterically (openly). These texts are written esoterically (veiled) and not ever meant to be read at face-value, which in my opinion is why so many aspiring Alchemists and members of this forum fail from the start. Some would call this writing "Philosophically"; others would describe this as "reading between the lines" or attempting to understand the Principles the Masters were attempting to convey to posterity.

When reading we need to keep in mind the Spirit of what is being discussed, not the outward superficial words used by the ancient Authors.

The Sages were not writing about soil when they were talking about our Earth just as much as they were not talking about sea salt when referring to our Salt. We need to remember that Alchemists wrote this way to keep the inner gates closed to the uninitiated masses and only deliver their teachings to "Sons of the Art" or those whom they considered worthy to receive their occult teachings.

Artephius sums it up here well with his words,




Now the whole magistery may be perfected, work, as in the generation of man, and of every vegetable; put the seed once into the womb, and shut it up well. Thus you may see that you need not many things, and that this our work requires no great charges, for that there is but one stone, there is but one medicine, one vessel, one order of working, and one successive disposition to the white and to the red. And although we say in many places, take this, and take that, yet we understand, that it behoves us to take but one thing, and put it once into the vessel, until the work be perfected. But these things are so set down by obscure philosophers to deceive the unwary, as we have before spoken; for is not this ars cabalistica or a secret and a hidden art? Is it not an art full of secrets? And believest thou O fool that we plainly teach this secret of secrets, taking our words according to their literal signification? Truly, I tell thee, that as for myself, I am no ways self seeking, or envious as others are; but he that takes the words of the other philosophers according to their common signification, he even already, having lost Ariadne's clue of thread, wanders in the midst of the labyrinth, multiplies errors, and casts away his money for naught.


Hope this helps!

Kiorionis
07-28-2017, 09:52 PM
The jar filled with earth has turned from soil brown to a solid deep black, but I can't be sure that's actually putrefaction.

Putrefaction happens on a daily basis. Philosophic Putrefaction initiates the alchemical process.

Death, Birth, Growth

elixirmixer
07-28-2017, 10:44 PM
If you don't know how to make SM than you'll be wasting your time trying to make a stone.

Also, if you don't know how to separate, purify, and recombine the four elements (not the three essentials) than you will never make the Quintessense and therefore, even the work you are doing now will result in nothing healthy or consumable either, unless of course you have a sound understanding of the elements.

I highly recommend the work of Hollandus, which brings a lot of clarity to the elements and will also teach you how to make stones from things like wine, which, I assure you, has a lot more medicinal value than say, salt and dirt.

Love the efforts your putting in though Visceral. Reminds me of my younger self.

Schmuldvich
07-28-2017, 11:45 PM
If you don't know how to make SM than you'll be wasting your time trying to make a stone.

Also, if you don't know how to separate, purify, and recombine the four elements (not the three essentials) than you will never make the Quintessense and therefore, even the work you are doing now will result in nothing healthy or consumable either, unless of course you have a sound understanding of the elements.

I highly recommend the work of Hollandus, which brings a lot of clarity to the elements and will also teach you how to make stones from things like wine, which, I assure you, has a lot more medicinal value than say, salt and dirt.

Love the efforts your putting in though Visceral. Reminds me of my younger self.

I've asked a thousand times and I'll ask again... What exactly is spiritus mundi?
The term spiritus mundi is used all over this message board and thrown about all the time, but I do not think anyone who uses the term even knows what it means.
There is a thread 51 pages long on this forum with extraordinarily little relevant info. I've read every page.
Yes, I know its properties, what it does, and what it is used for, but what exactly is it?

I am not sure you are on the same page as the Alchemists regarding separating and recombining the four elements. Let's look at that quote by Artephius again, but this time in context





It sufficeth thee then to put the bodies in the vessel, and into the water once and for all, and to close the vessel well, until a true separation is made. This the obscure artist calls conjunction, sublimation, assation, extraction, putrefaction, ligation, desponsation, subtilization, generation, etc.

Now the whole magistery may be perfected, work, as in the generation of man, and of every vegetable; put the seed once into the womb, and shut it up well. Thus you may see that you need not many things, and that this our work requires no great charges, for that there is but one stone, there is but one medicine, one vessel, one order of working, and one successive disposition to the white and to the red. And although we say in many places, take this, and take that, yet we understand, that it behoves us to take but one thing, and put it once into the vessel, until the work be perfected. But these things are so set down by obscure philosophers to deceive the unwary, as we have before spoken; for is not this "ars cabalistica" or a secret and a hidden art? Is it not an art full of secrets? And believest thou O fool that we plainly teach this secret of secrets, taking our words according to their literal signification? Truly, I tell thee, that as for myself, I am no ways self seeking, or envious as others are; but he that takes the words of the other philosophers according to their common signification, he even already, having lost Ariadne's clue of thread, wanders in the midst of the labyrinth, multiplies errors, and casts away his money for naught.

And I, Artephius, after I became an adept, and had attained to the true and complete wisdom, by studying the books of the most faithful Hermes, the speaker of truth, was sometimes obscure also as others were. But when I had for the space of a thousand years, or thereabouts, which has now passed over my head, since the time I was born to this day, through the alone goodness of God Almighty, by the use of this wonderful quintessence. When I say for so very long a time, I found no man had found out or obtained this hermetic secret, because of the obscurity of the philosophers words. Being moved with a generous mind, and the integrity of a good man, I have determined in these latter days of my life, to declare all things truly and sincerely, that you may not want anything for the perfecting of this stone of the philosophers. Excepting one certain thing, which is not lawful for me to discover to any, because it is either revealed or made known by God himself, or taught by some master, which notwithstanding he that can bend himself to the search thereof, by the help of a little experience, may easily learn in this book.

In this book I have therefore written the naked truth, though clothed or disguised with few colors; yet so that every good and wise man may happily have those desirable apples of the Hesperides from this our philosophers tree. Wherefore praises be given to the most high God, who has poured into our soul of his goodness; and through a good old age, even an almost infinite number of years, has truly filled our hearts with his love, in which, methinks, I embrace, cherish, and truly love all mankind together. But to return to out business. Truly our work is perfectly performed; for that which the heat of sun is a hundred years in doing, for the generation of one metal in the bowels of the earth; our secret fire, that is, our fiery and sulphureous water, which is called Balneum Mariae, doth as I have often seen in a very short time.

Now this operation or work is a thing of no great labor to him who knows and understands it; nor is the matter so dear, considering how small a quantity does suffice, that it may cause any man to withdraw his hand from it. It is indeed, a work so short and easy, that it may well be called woman's work, and the play of children. Go to it then,, my son, put up thy supplications to God almighty; be diligent in searching the books of the learned in this science; for one book openeth another; think and meditate of these things profoundly; and avoid all things which vanish in or will not endure the fire, because from these adjustible, perishing or consuming things, you can never attain to the perfect matter, which is only found in the digesting of your water, extracted from sol and luna. For by this water, color, and ponderosity or weight, are infinitely given to the matter; and this water is a white vapor, which like a soul flows through the perfect bodies, taking wholly from them their blackness, and impurities, uniting the two bodies in one, and increasing their water.



Hollandus, both father and son, have left us with invaluable words we should all take the time to study diligently. Have you had a chance to read any of the works of Hollandus recently, Visceral?

elixirmixer
07-29-2017, 12:43 AM
Excepting one certain thing, which is not lawful for me to discover to any, because it is either revealed or made known by God himself, or taught by some master, which notwithstanding he that can bend himself to the search thereof, by the help of a little experience, may easily learn in this book.

Which work of Hollandus are you Quoting Schmildvich?

Schmuldvich
07-29-2017, 03:04 AM
I've asked a thousand times and I'll ask again... What exactly is spiritus mundi?
The term spiritus mundi is used all over this message board and thrown about all the time, but I do not think anyone who uses the term even knows what it means.
There is a thread 51 pages long on this forum with extraordinarily little relevant info. I've read every page.
Yes, I know its properties, what it does, and what it is used for, but what exactly is it?

I am not sure you are on the same page as the Alchemists regarding separating and recombining the four elements. Let's look at that quote by Artephius again, but this time in context





And I, Artephius, after I became an adept, and had attained to the true and complete wisdom, by studying the books of the most faithful Hermes, the speaker of truth, was sometimes obscure also as others were. But when I had for the space of a thousand years, or thereabouts, which has now passed over my head, since the time I was born to this day, through the alone goodness of God Almighty, by the use of this wonderful quintessence. When I say for so very long a time, I found no man had found out or obtained this hermetic secret, because of the obscurity of the philosophers words. Being moved with a generous mind, and the integrity of a good man, I have determined in these latter days of my life, to declare all things truly and sincerely, that you may not want anything for the perfecting of this stone of the philosophers. Excepting one certain thing, which is not lawful for me to discover to any, because it is either revealed or made known by God himself, or taught by some master, which notwithstanding he that can bend himself to the search thereof, by the help of a little experience, may easily learn in this book.



Hollandus, both father and son, have left us with invaluable words we should all take the time to study diligently. Have you had a chance to read any of the works of Hollandus recently, Visceral?



Excepting one certain thing, which is not lawful for me to discover to any, because it is either revealed or made known by God himself, or taught by some master, which notwithstanding he that can bend himself to the search thereof, by the help of a little experience, may easily learn in this book.Which work of Hollandus are you quoting Schmildvich?


The quote is from the "The Secret Book of Artephius". The full quote by Artephius is given above.

As far as Hollandus goes, "De Lapide Philosophorum" would be a fantastic place to start, especially focusing on the prologue.

JDP
07-29-2017, 04:05 AM
I've asked a thousand times and I'll ask again... What exactly is spiritus mundi?
The term spiritus mundi is used all over this message board and thrown about all the time, but I do not think anyone who uses the term even knows what it means.
There is a thread 51 pages long on this forum with extraordinarily little relevant info. I've read every page.
Yes, I know its properties, what it does, and what it is used for, but what exactly is it?

It's an ill-defined, vague "something" that is supposed to be found everywhere, but paradoxically not seen, smelled or touched by anyone, except those few who pretend they know how to "condense" it. It's sort of like the obsolete and paradoxical "phlogiston" concept that many old chemists from the 18th century used in their attempts to try to "explain" why animal and vegetable matters burned, and why metals and minerals calcined. It only existed in their imagination, though. The phenomena that they were observing are very real, no doubts about it, but it had nothing to do with that hypothetical substance they invented in their efforts at trying to rationalize observable empirical facts. Lavoisier gave a death-blow to the "phlogiston" concept by coming up with a more logical one that fitted the observed phenomena better, namely: the invisible, but measurable/detectable by other means, gas oxygen (the "culprit" behind why for centuries no one had been able to explain combustion and calcination in a totally satisfactory manner.) I am willing to bet anything that you can do exactly the same with the equally fictitious "Spiritus Mundi" that no one has ever seen, smelled or touched either. Some alchemy enthusiasts try to attribute all sorts of things to this imaginary "thing", but I am pretty confident that more logical and satisfactory explanations regarding the Stone and all other types of transmutations will one day be found elsewhere than this ghost-like & vague "something" that no one has ever seen, smelled or touched.

elixirmixer
07-29-2017, 09:00 AM
Parley P Pratt I believe his name was, was an early Mormon Elder who held the Melchizedek priesthood, was privy to Josephs Smiths secret masonic initiations and who also wrote the book called "The science of Theology" in which he describes the Holy Spirit, to be of a molecular composition, an element, that had complete command over all other elements, and which was undetectable by normal human standards.

There is, indeed, a very special substance, created in a very special way, and the keys to these gateways of knowledge are open both in the old literature, particularly this "RAMS" which i've never read but i know its all there, and also here, on these very forums, where some very intellectual and diverse people with lifetimes of experience have opened old books to a modern generation.

Typically, it is said that access to these knowledge's are strictly controlled and prohibited, and in my experience id have to agree. However, the point I'm inferring with this rant, is that there are probably more beneficial experiments to be performing, such as spagyrica, or elemental plant preparations, to help gain a complete understanding of the alchemical pathways before confusing ones-self into studying dead paths.

The archeus of water is a cheap way to learn hermetic philosophy in the laboratory. Learning the different properties of water is going to be very useful if you want to work with salts, since different fractions of the Archeus will better prepare your salts.

Sometimes I feel that for a forum called 'AlchemyForums', we so often move away from these simple hermetic truths laid out in the emerald tablet, genesis, the life of Christ, the dance of dawn and dusk. I found SM by starring out in the sky each night for months trying to comprehend nature herself, while pleading with God to know. And now I know and my heart is much more restful, however, this has only happened because God trusts me with the information and its not a trust I intend to abuse.

Another message of hope to those seeking!! :cool:

Andro
07-29-2017, 09:59 AM
he describes the Holy Spirit, to be of a molecular composition, an element, that had complete command over all other elements, and which was undetectable by normal human standards.

This is a very interesting reference! Thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention.

I'd say that this may be an 'answer' to the 'question' that this thread is posing in its title.


The archeus of water is a cheap way to learn hermetic philosophy in the laboratory.

IMO the "Archaeus of Water" should be experimented with by anyone who wishes to start penetrating the mysteries of the Emerald Tablet.

Awani
07-30-2017, 04:50 PM
...an element...


I'd say that this may be an 'answer' to the 'question' that this thread is posing in its title.


Element

A 14th century word from the Latin elementum: "rudiment, first principle, matter in its most basic form"

Also came to mean: "simplest component of a complex substance"

In modern times it means: "proper or natural environment of anything"

Source (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=element)

In other words another "answer" is the answer to what "element" implies, IMO.

:p

Visceral
07-31-2017, 12:24 AM
I was not expecting the thread to evolve so nicely!

@schums first post, yes it was helpful in that it confirmed what I had already thought to be the case, which is that the real step I'm missing is guidance by a real adept.

However part of the reason I mentioned that my experiments were based on the mutus liber is that the silent book doesn't use terms like "our earth" or any such thing but seems to show a fairly straightforward process of capturing dew embued with desirable astrological or cosmic energies, having been moved through the atmosphere into the earth and back again to the air, having taken part of all the elements at this stage and combined some part of their essence with the original, pure, spontaneous Fire I believe it calls it.

Mostly I figure my roadblock with this particular work would be needing to rearrange the blocks into the correct order as they seem for sure out of order, and figuring out why the scene with Jacobs ladder had the biblical passages written backwards. Is this meant to suggest the work goes backwards through the book, or only the numbers are to be taken backwards (heating the dew/earth for 40 days vs 04 days)? There is not a lot of help for one who awakened in the woods themselves.

Edit. I have endlessly wished for a wooden move able reproduction of the Azoth for the same reason I keep meaning to get prints of the ML, I really feel it's meant to be manipulated like a Cypher.

zoas23
08-01-2017, 01:23 AM
It's an ill-defined, vague "something" that is supposed to be found everywhere, but paradoxically not seen, smelled or touched by anyone, except those few who pretend they know how to "condense" it. (...) I am willing to bet anything that you can do exactly the same with the equally fictitious "Spiritus Mundi" that no one has ever seen, smelled or touched either.

It is touchable, visible... It is possible to smell it, drink it, etc.

It is also perfectly described in some texts of the 1600 and 1700. It is not a "concept", but something that ANY person can perceive with the 5 senses when it has been captured / condensed / whatever. No "metaphysical powers" are needed to see it or touch it.

I still don't get how you arrived to these assumptions.

JDP
08-01-2017, 01:49 AM
It is touchable, visible... It is possible to smell it, drink it, etc.

No, it isn't, otherwise it would have ceased to be a mystery or a non-entity a long time ago.


It is also perfectly described in some texts of the 1600 and 1700. It is not a "concept", but something that ANY person can perceive with the 5 senses when it has been captured / condensed / whatever.

Those apparently clear instructions to prepare it do not work, like countless other such strange claims.


No "metaphysical powers" are needed to see it or touch it.

Apparently they are, because no one has been able to produce such a thing.


I still don't get how you arrived to these assumptions.

From the fact that no one has been able to corroborate such a claim in the several hundred years that has been floating around.

Schmuldvich
08-01-2017, 03:05 AM
I've asked a thousand times and I'll ask again... What exactly is spiritus mundi?
The term spiritus mundi is used all over this message board and thrown about all the time, but I do not think anyone who uses the term even knows what it means.
There is a thread 51 pages long on this forum with extraordinarily little relevant info. I've read every page.
Yes, I know its properties, what it does, and what it is used for, but what exactly is it?


It's an ill-defined, vague "something" that is supposed to be found everywhere, but paradoxically not seen, smelled or touched by anyone, except those few who pretend they know how to "condense" it. It's sort of like the obsolete and paradoxical "phlogiston" concept that many old chemists from the 18th century used in their attempts to try to "explain" why animal and vegetable matters burned, and why metals and minerals calcined. It only existed in their imagination, though. The phenomena that they were observing are very real, no doubts about it, but it had nothing to do with that hypothetical substance they invented in their efforts at trying to rationalize observable empirical facts. Lavoisier gave a death-blow to the "phlogiston" concept by coming up with a more logical one that fitted the observed phenomena better, namely: the invisible, but measurable/detectable by other means, gas oxygen (the "culprit" behind why for centuries no one had been able to explain combustion and calcination in a totally satisfactory manner.) I am willing to bet anything that you can do exactly the same with the equally fictitious "Spiritus Mundi" that no one has ever seen, smelled or touched either. Some alchemy enthusiasts try to attribute all sorts of things to this imaginary "thing", but I am pretty confident that more logical and satisfactory explanations regarding the Stone and all other types of transmutations will one day be found elsewhere than this ghost-like & vague "something" that no one has ever seen, smelled or touched.


It is touchable, visible... It is possible to smell it, drink it, etc.
It is also perfectly described in some texts of the 1600 and 1700. It is not a "concept", but something that ANY person can perceive with the 5 senses when it has been captured / condensed / whatever. No "metaphysical powers" are needed to see it or touch it.
I still don't get how you arrived to these assumptions.

Zoas, you were specifically one of the people I was referring to in my above comment about "using the term but not knowing what it means". According to you, spiritus mundi can be touched, seen, smelled, drank, etc. You say spiritus mundi is "perfectly described" in some texts yet provide no references to such texts, authors, or passages. Do you know what spiritus mundi is?

We get to these "assumptions" because, just like many others here, we have read every Alchemy text available in English that we could get our hands on. I'm sure you have read all of these texts and more! The difference between JDP & I, and elixirmixer & yourself, is that JDP & I do not claim to possess or even know what spiritus mundi is. Just like you, we do know its claimed properties and facets, but we do not claim to ever have "condensed" it or even know how to! We do not pretend to know what spiritus mundi is.

Like Visceral at the start of this thread, I seem to be missing something. Can you help fill me in?

elixirmixer
08-01-2017, 04:12 AM
I dont think that Zoas and I are the only ones that have suggested that we are privy to something a little different and a bit special.

Obviously Schmuldvich, you wish to know how to create this substance, hence your always talking about it...

And many here have shared enough for you to learn how to do it. Even though it was not long ago that I was in your shoes, doing the pestering, now, I'm giving the same spill that was given to me when I sought to have it myself (which ive said already that I dont have any yet) nevertheless, its all in the theory and understanding of hermetic, which, with all your prior learnings Schmuldvich, im sure that you wont be far away...

Look towards NATURE Schmuldvich

Schmuldvich
08-01-2017, 05:24 AM
I dont think that Zoas and I are the only ones that have suggested that we are privy to something a little different and a bit special.

Look towards NATURE Schmuldvich

Are you able to share with Visceral & I a few different particular examples of how we can "Look towards NATURE" that will aid us in our search? We seem to be missing something...

zoas23
08-01-2017, 10:35 PM
Zoas, you were specifically one of the people I was referring to in my above comment about "using the term but not knowing what it means". According to you, spiritus mundi can be touched, seen, smelled, drank, etc. You say spiritus mundi is "perfectly described" in some texts yet provide no references to such texts, authors, or passages. Do you know what spiritus mundi is?

We get to these "assumptions" because, just like many others here, we have read every Alchemy text available in English that we could get our hands on. I'm sure you have read all of these texts and more! The difference between JDP & I, and elixirmixer & yourself, is that JDP & I do not claim to possess or even know what spiritus mundi is. Just like you, we do know its claimed properties and facets, but we do not claim to ever have "condensed" it or even know how to! We do not pretend to know what spiritus mundi is.

Like Visceral at the start of this thread, I seem to be missing something. Can you help fill me in?

I am far from home (vacations) and writing using a phone... So pardon the telegram style!

I don't think I have much in common with E.M... I don't have much in common with JDP either... We're all different.

Yes, I know what the Spiritus Mundi is... And that's why I scratch my head when I read weird assumptions (i.e, that it cannot be seen or touched).

If you want a description, you have it in the first part of the Golden Chain of Homer. If you want a procedure, you have it in the first chapter of "The true preparation of the Philosopher's Stone" by Sincerus Renatus... Or in Speculum Sophicum Rhodostauroticum, though Renatus is somehow more technical (he calls it "Materia Remota").

Anyway, when I wrote that the assumptions are weird to read it is simply because I feel that some persons think that it's not something that can be empirically seen or touched... And it's not like that. Or I often read that it involves some sort of "faith" in something or some sort of "belief"... Or the assumption that the practitioner has to project his "mystical powers" in a flask... And it's not like that at all.

Other than that, today I have meet an alchemist who has some 45 years of experience with alchemy, but who is also a nuclear engineer and a physic... He works with the Spiritus too and he has a very scientific mind.

Hmm... The post you wrote, are those honest questions with the intention of learning and understanding or they have an ironic intention?

You know, if I have not seen such thing many times, I would probably laugh if a person showed me a commercial airplane claiming that such huge monstrosity made of metal can fly... But they fly... And it's not because the pilot is using some sort of super mystical power.

Schmuldvich
08-01-2017, 11:50 PM
Hmm... The post you wrote, are those honest questions with the intention of learning and understanding or they have an ironic intention?

Ironic, albeit with the intention of learning and understanding other peoples' perspectives.

It is refreshing to see that you recognize my position asking these questions. I would love answers!

Visceral
08-02-2017, 04:57 AM
Are you able to share with Visceral & I a few different particular examples of how we can "Look towards NATURE" that will aid us in our search? We seem to be missing something...

Indeed, it seems to be a dragon eating it's tail in that any examples he could show would inevitably state they are telling the entire truth and yet not revealing anything we couldn't find anywhere else.

The real question seems to be, how does one join the club? Is joining the club where one is told what the Prima Materia is? Like others here I am much more interested in what the masters and supposed creators or holders of the stone wrote and shared, I don't recall anything in stone or writing about the Spiritus Mundi, and yes I've read the entire sticky.

Andro
08-02-2017, 09:16 AM
I don't recall anything in stone or writing about the Spiritus Mundi, and yes I've read the entire sticky.

The term is used in certain R+C literature. It is also often called by other names, such as Astral Spirit, Spiritus Mercurii, Secret Fire, etc...

Sometimes it is depicted by the symbol for "Spirit" next to the symbol for "Mercury":

http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Spiritus-Mercurii.jpg

True Initiate
08-02-2017, 10:14 AM
It is also called Fountain of Living Water, Stream from an old Oak Tree and many other names. It is usually associated with qualities of the water but that doesn't mean that it is a liquid. It is also called a Spirit which underlines it's invisible appearance. The Initiates used the term water very broadly in their mysteries especially denoting it's physical attributes.

zoas23
08-02-2017, 02:40 PM
Ironic, albeit with the intention of learning and understanding other peoples' perspectives.

It is refreshing to see that you recognize my position asking these questions. I would love answers!

There are many ways or options actually, but they can be summarised in a short list:

A- Figure it out by yourself.

B- Ask in an ironic way somehow mocking and disregarding the person you are taking to... And pray to your gods asking them that the other person is O.K. with being taken as an idiot and will be very helpful.

C- If "A" and "B" don't work, then try the strange path of asking politely... At least in my case, I am not into giving impossible puzzles or playing with other people's questions... Though ironic questions get ironic answers... Which is hardly surprising.

Visceral
08-02-2017, 08:14 PM
The term is used in certain R+C literature. It is also often called by other names, such as Astral Spirit, Spiritus Mercurii, Secret Fire, etc...

Sometimes it is depicted by the symbol for "Spirit" next to the symbol for "Mercury":

http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Spiritus-Mercurii.jpg

Ahh now that first image I am very familiar with, the Omega. The ancient builders engraved this pretty much everywhere. I do not recall the symbol for mercury occurring before Hermeticism/Hellenistic Greece, perhaps someone could show me where this is carved in stone? Otherwise I must probably conclude that it is an appropriation of an even earlier symbol transfigured to protect the information after the fall of Egypt and or Greece.

Here also we see the images of the Sacred Geometric Pentacle, pointing towards the Five Elements of Eastern Alchemy, as well as a Black Sun type object radiating something downwards at the behest of what we can assume are initiated magicians of some kind. Above their head, Omega.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/44/26/34/44263446eac37213ef57143e860ddbda--ancient-symbols-ancient-artifacts.jpg

Visceral
08-02-2017, 08:15 PM
Now the Eye in their hands is typically translated as pure unfiltered spirit, so I wonder if spirit is really what they meant by the Omega?

JDP
08-02-2017, 09:17 PM
Yes, I know what the Spiritus Mundi is... And that's why I scratch my head when I read weird assumptions (i.e, that it cannot be seen or touched).

The weird assumption is that you actually think someone, even yourself, has really seen or touched this ill-defined, vague and UNPROVEN SPECULATIVE CONCEPT.


If you want a description, you have it in the first part of the Golden Chain of Homer.

The entire first part of that text is too long to quote, but this excerpt will more than suffice to prove what I have been saying all this time, namely, that this "Spiritus Mundi" is nothing more, nothing less than a collection of SPECULATIONS with the aim to try to supposedly "explain" many empirical facts, but which theory no one ever proved to actually be real, and that in fact later thinkers were able to offer much more logical and supported (by other empirical facts) explanations regarding the same phenomena:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/alc/catena1.htm

"We have told you that the Universal spirit endowed with an unerring Instinct, working by the most simple and nearest way, it has, also, besides its already mentioned conspicuous qualities, two occult powers, viz: attracting and repulsing, and these two powers are inconceivably great!
We see various instances of it in Thunder and Lightning, in Earthquakes, Hurricanes and in the surprising effects of Gunpowder."

As can be seen from the above passage, the author of this text thought it "logical" to attribute such observable phenomena to this HYPOTHETICAL "spirit", but today we have much better, logical, and supported by other experimental facts, explanations so we simply can't accept that any of those phenomena have anything to do with this TOTALLY UNPROVEN "spirit". Thunder and lighting are the result of electrical charges in the atmosphere, earthquakes are the result of tectonic plate movements deep within the earth, hurricanes are caused by changes in ocean temperature, and gunpowder's properties are caused by the sudden liberation of a large amount of gases which were previously combined with other substances in denser solid forms. All of these more logical and supported explanations were unknown to the author of this early 18th century text, so he might have had an excuse for having believed what he believed. But today we know better regarding these subjects. No need to conjure up any UNPROVEN SPECULATIVE "spirits" to explain any of this. You can extend the same conclusion to almost everything he says and tries to attribute to this SPECULATIVE CONCEPT, just like today we can very safely discard the also proven to be inadequate "phlogiston" concept to try to explain combustion and calcination. Today we know about oxygen, which can more adequately explain such phenomena. But to the pre-Lavoiserian mind "phlogiston" made a lot of sense and seemingly could explain most of the observed facts. For us it simply can't.


If you want a procedure, you have it in the first chapter of "The true preparation of the Philosopher's Stone" by Sincerus Renatus...

First, I would like to point out that "Sincerus Renatus" (pseudonym of Samuel Richter) very likely did NOT write this text. As he himself says in the introduction (which was not translated into English) to that book, he was given the manuscript text of it by some supposed "master", he just edited it and published it. I have no problem whatsoever trusting Richter's statement, since the text has no similarity with his genuine compositions. Richter was more of a "chymist" than an alchemist; his genuine texts are heavily concerned with all manner of "particular" processes for obtaining silver and gold by other means than the Philosophers' Stone. In fact, at the end of the original German edition of this book there is a section that is INDISPUTABLY by "Sincerus Renatus", and, as expected, it is vastly different in style and content to the obscure & weird "The True and Perfect Preparation" text; it is a VERY CLEAR description of a "particular" process to "exalt" gold and then use it to transmute silver so as to obtain an "augmentation" of the gold employed, a topic that fascinated the real "Sincerus Renatus" and filled many pages of his genuine treatises. Unfortunately, this last part, which is by far the most interesting in the whole book, was not translated by the English translator. But I have my own privately commissioned translation of it. Unlike the absurdities about "Spiritus Mundi" and its fanciful Frankenstein-like imaginary apparatuses to supposedly "condense" it, these processes involve the very real tools, techniques and substances available to the 17th-18th century "chymists": crucibles, retorts, cementations, fusions, metals, salts, etc.

And second, the claims about "materia remota" in "The True and Perfect Preparation" text sound like a fantastic collection of weird claims taken straight out of a "Frankenstein" novel. Let me quote here some parts of the first chapter so that readers can judge how "reliable" is the text in all its obscure, vague, and hardly inspiring "glory":

"The Remote Materia of this Secret is a certain Moisture, which is richly given by the Universal (symbol for "spirit"). This Materia must not be specificated or have an idea of anything, but indifferent to all species, and only be alone signed inchoative of Metallish Spirit, which Spirit is contained in the Air from the Mother Earth, as this Spirit operates by the Will of God; namely so that it comes down into the lower Region of the Air, and clothes itself with (symbol for "sulphur) and (symbol for "salt") volatile terrestri, as also with the fixed Aerial (symbol for "mercury") and (symbol for "fire"), this Materia is correctly named Chaos, Terra Chaotica, because it is found yearly which Jupiter fulminates with Thunder and Lightning from Heaven to the Earth"

Up to here the author offers nothing but A BUNCH OF ASSUMPTIONS & SPECULATIONS, some of which are patently impossible to begin with (there is no such thing as "unspecificated matter"; if it exists, it is IPSO FACTO "specificated".) But next he makes the following Frankenstein-like proposition to supposedly obtain this ill-defined and vague "thing":

"Our dear Brother must collect this Spirit when it is fruitful with (symbol for "Saturnine") Seed while the Heavens Moistens our Earth in Thunder and Lightning, the Artist shall take this Rain in the following manner, (**here follow some naive astrological directions, as if such things really had any effect on the atmospheric phenomena he is babbling about**) namely, he shall take a Glass Vessel made in the form of a Pyramid (conical) and set into it another glass vessel that is very wide above by which to receive the Rain in quantity. The first Vessel (conical) shall have a glass tube a few spans long, below at the bottom, so that the vessel if it is set on a Roof or else on an elevated position open to the Heaven and the tube goes through the Roof where the Artist is, and conveys the water into a bottle, so you take of this Rain two-thirds of a Glass full and close it Hermetically so that no (symbol for "sulphurish") spirit exhales, and then set it in the First Grade of the Philosophical Fire."

This kind of nonsense continues with the supposed production of a "Tartarish Earth" from this Frankenstein-like water, generated from lightning & thunder. Those interested in wasting their time & money in such fantasies are invited to continue reading the fanciful claims of whoever the author of this text was (which I am pretty sure was NOT "Sincerus Renatus".) As for me, I have too much empirical experience to fall for such wild fairy tales. I believe in very REAL & TANGIBLE operations performed with very REAL SUBSTANCES & APPARATUSES, which have proven to me over and over again that transmutation is quite real, but no Frankenstein-like gimmicks are needed for achieving this. So I naturally do not expect that producing the Philosophers' Stone will somehow require such fanciful gimmicks either.


Or in Speculum Sophicum Rhodostauroticum, though Renatus is somehow more technical (he calls it "Materia Remota").

Readers are invited to read this other collection of obscurities and fanciful boasts and see that it does not clearly describe any such method to obtain this SPECULATIVE AND VAGUE "thing":

http://atrightanglestoreality.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-mirror-of-wisdom-of-rosy-cross-by.html

zoas23
08-03-2017, 12:41 AM
You assume too much, JDP.
I have no doubts about your vast knowledge... BUT you are too stuck with what you know and do... which is fine, because I believe that you are doing very well what you want and as you want. What can be better than such thing?

Other than that, for someone who claims to be an empiricist... Well.. you are certainly not one when it comes to the Spirit. You simply discard the idea because it doesn't seem to fit into your logic or system. O.K... I am fine with such thing and you are fine too.

You imagine weird Frankenstein-like apparatuses... When it can be done with something as simple as a cheap vessel.

The book (not) by Richter was simply an example of a book that explains a procedure in a straightforward fashion and almost without riddles.

Finally, the works with the Spirit are 100% empirical... X thing happens or X thing does not happen, as simple as that.

I do remember you asking me to condense it inside a glass cabinet with security cameras filming from every angle as to avoid any chance of "cheating"... I still don't get which one would be the point of "cheating". I think you are a sane person... Who the hell can be so crazy as to "cheat"???? Do you believe that all the people working with the Spirit go to a shop and buy acetone, then they put it in a fancy vessel and then they finally pretend to themselves that it *appeared* there as a miracle?
LOL... I am a bit crazy, but certainly not that crazy.

And it's simply a path... There's no obligation to like it.

Schmuldvich
08-03-2017, 07:49 AM
Ahh now that first image I am very familiar with, the Omega. The ancient builders engraved this pretty much everywhere. I do not recall the symbol for mercury occurring before Hermeticism/Hellenistic Greece, perhaps someone could show me where this is carved in stone? Otherwise I must probably conclude that it is an appropriation of an even earlier symbol transfigured to protect the information after the fall of Egypt and or Greece.

Here also we see the images of the Sacred Geometric Pentacle, pointing towards the Five Elements of Eastern Alchemy, as well as a Black Sun type object radiating something downwards at the behest of what we can assume are initiated magicians of some kind. Above their head, Omega.


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/44/26/34/44263446eac37213ef57143e860ddbda--ancient-symbols-ancient-artifacts.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/IPgfpYa.jpg

In his incredible book called "Serpent In The Sky: The High Wisdom Of Ancient Egypt" (http://sayno2legalcrime.info/serpentsky.pdf), which I own a hardcopy of and recommend everyone interested in ancient Egypt obtain, John West describes the beetle thusly...




The scarab beetle, kheper, symbol of the morning sun, the sun as transforming principle. The scarab lays its eggs in a ball of dung and eventually the larvae appear, as though by spontaneous generation, having nourished themselves on the ball. The analogy to the sun — disappearing at night and appearing in glory in the morning — is clear.


He then goes on to share an old poem with us...





Neb djer djed ef:
Kheper ee kheper kheper oo,
Kheper kooie em kheper oo en khepree, kheper em sep tepi,
Kheper kooie em kheperoo en khepree kheper oo
Kheper kheper oo poo,
En pea en ee yoo pea oot yoo ir en ee
Pea enee em pea oot yoo
Pea eren ee yoo essen iree pea oot pea oot yoo

If, in trying to twist your tongue around the unaccustomed sounds, you decide it is all abracadabra, you could well be right. Though the dictionary declares the origin of familiar Cabbalistic formulae 'uncertain', Harold Bayley, in The Lost Language of Symbolism, Williams and Norgate, 1951, says this incantation may be one of the names of the sun god, Mithras. If so, then this is probably derived from the Egyptian, kheper, the scarab beetle, which is the symbol and name of the morning sun, the sun as transforming principle. The above text, rendered into English, reads:


The Master of the Universe declares:
When I manifested myself into existence, existence existed.
I came into existence in the form of the Existent, which came into existence in the First Time.
Coming into existence according to the mode of existence of the Existent, I therefore existed.
And it was thus that the Existent came into existence, for I was anterior to the Two Anteriors that I made,
for I had priority over the Two Anteriors, for my name was anterior to theirs, for I made them thus anterior to the Two Anteriors


Sound familiar?



http://i.imgur.com/D6WISaD.jpg


Recall that the scarab beetle starts his Work with a ball of feculent Earth (our Dung). It is also worth noticing that outwardly in his terrestrial form the scarab beetle is putridly black, yet inwardly he spreads his wings and is pure gold...



http://i.imgur.com/C4SBKBX.jpg


Below the beetle in the image, note that his bottom feet are touching the Earth under him. From the Earth below we see that the Earth beneath him is emanating something....We are reminded of the wise words from Peter Bonus in "The New Pearl Of Great Price"...



"At the beginning of the process of digestion there were two kinds of superfluous sulphur, of which the first was subtle and combustible. By means of the evaporation in the sublimation this sulphur is separated from the quicksilver. But there is another gross, earthy, and feculent sulphur, which sinks to the bottom of the vessel, over which is the pure, volatile substance. For as in the digestion of must and blood there is separated therefrom a subtle and a gross superfluous substance, and the pure liquid is between the two, so, in our work, there is a fiery and subtle, and a gross and earthy, sulphureous superfluity. This separation is brought about by digestion or coction, supervised by Art."



http://i.imgur.com/IwMYK4L.jpg



Above the beetle in the image we see a 5-pointed star with a dot in the exact center of the star...this is a symbol (our Quintessence) spoken and written about so magnificently by the Sages.



It is the precious substance which the sages call by so many mysterious names; the Shadow of the Sun, the coagulum of quicksilver, that which flies with tings flying and rest with things at rest, the gold of the philosophers, that which is sought of many and found of few, the Quintessence.



http://i.imgur.com/ZRRZAoo.jpg



Hope this helps!

Dendritic Xylem
08-03-2017, 12:19 PM
I believe in very REAL & TANGIBLE operations performed with very REAL SUBSTANCES & APPARATUSES, which have proven to me over and over again that transmutation is quite real, but no Frankenstein-like gimmicks are needed for achieving this.

It seems to me that you are tired of people making claims, and refusing to provide practical proof.
You even go so far as to insinuate they are liars, because they don't provide such proof.

So now that you have made claims of personal success in transmutation operations, will you provide proof? Will you stay silent? Or will you quote some text, like those you criticize?

You obviously are very knowledgeable.
But bragging about your success without providing practical details makes you no better than those you are criticizing.

Maybe I am wrong. Perhaps you have outlined the details of your own transmutation experiments elsewhere on the forum?

Kiorionis
08-03-2017, 01:13 PM
Hi everyone.

Please stay on topic.

Lux Natura
08-04-2017, 02:29 AM
It occurs to me that anyone can think of examples in which they created something, seemingly out of nothing more than their thought and intentions, and it eventually manifested into a reality that is tangible. Of course this is after the thought pattern had been created and put into action.

I mean really, we all do this every day, at least on some sort of level.

It's easy to see the effects of this, but then again how could one capture the actual creative energy that gave birth to it all in some tangible way?

Well for one we know the energy can be captured by being put into action. You may not be able to see the creativity of an artist in its natural state, but you can see it frozen in time when they have completed their work.

I think semantics ends up being a net that malfunctions more often than not. It can capture anything it wants, provided it's designed properly, but most of the time the net gets tangled, and all the starving fisherman litter the shores arguing over subtle points in their fishing net weaving manuals that have been passed down and translated over the ages, while they try to decypher trick knots they heard rumors about.

The force of creation is one. It is not many.

Perhaps the problem is that it's not grand enough. That people have built up an expectation, and not it does not meet it. (Malfunctioning net).

Of too literally, they seek a perfect jar, unaware what that jar actually is. May as well call it a house. Or a container. One may argue again that a container is only good for what it contains. A ziplock bag is a container, but you would not use it to hold coffee now would you? You must know what needs to be contained before you can create a container.

Perhaps one cannot truly start unless they can see then end. Otherwise how do you really know what you are building towards? I think this part takes practice and failure more than anything. No one builds a house starting from the roof down. I think the work is done even before the first step. The rest becomes a formality, perhaps not even needing to be done anymore.

The first step is naturally the hardest. The problem is one forgot to build a foundation. The other doesn't know why he is building a staircase to begin with. Some enterprising individual realized that a staircase was not necessary, as one could just walk around the hill and not bother with all the nonsense.

Try telling that to all the carpentry school graduates though. They have too much learning clogging their filters.

Visceral
08-04-2017, 06:44 AM
Ah, luckily I am free from all such obstructions and mental homage to masters or academia. ^_^

Something I've been wondering for a bit and hinted at earlier, was the Chinese version of the Pentacle Interpretation of Alchemy, by which I mean what do the members of the board feel about the Five Elements approach and the works of Nagarjuna?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0a/42/56/0a4256ae4459e8f81732a565623b6b06--element-chart-tcm.jpg

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/50eed016e4b029771ee3a2c7/50fde93be4b09969a3c977c3/50fde943e4b09969a3c980b6/1358817620557/5elements.jpg

Visceral
08-04-2017, 07:08 AM
Unfortunately it's very difficult to find much more than this, aside from that Nagarjuna traveled East and traded his Siddhi of walking on water for the secrets of Alchemy from an alchemist who only taught him because he thought Nagarjuna had used a Sandalwood leaf to travel over the ocean. (Nagarjuna kept another leaf hidden in his sandal that he used to return to save the monastery, very reminiscent of the Greek Hermes and in keeping with the tradition of every trickster God or Joker archetype he's associated with)


At Nalanda, Nagarjuna studied sutra andtantra*with Ratnamati – an emanation of Manjushri – and, with Saraha, especiallyThe Guhyasamaja Tantra*(dPal gsang-ba ‘dus-pa’i rgyud). In addition, he learned alchemy from a brahmin, and gained the ability to transmute iron into gold. Using this ability, he was able to feed the Nalanda monks during famine."

http://www.lodrodawa.dk/ancient_masters/nagarjuna.html

The frustration begins when they don't mention how transmutation lead to feeding the monks. Presumably we are to assume he bought it, but perhaps there is a function more akin to the Jewish Manna the Stone is also capable of?

Does the forum have any records of experiments with spagyrics in the area of Sandalwood?

Also curiously enough after basically disappearing at the request of the prince (the story is the prince cut off his head with a blade of grass, the story is clearly a joke but the point is Nagarjuna did leave or at least drop out of society, probably because his influence was overshadowing the princes and he didn't want to start a war) another very similar character of the same name reappears, albeit 800 years later, but again as a character who has mastered medicine and metalworking. But what does age or time mean to one who has the secrets and keys we all crave so desperately?

And indeed, the fabled and allegedly magical affects of Damascus swords began with wootz ingots from India, obtained mostly from refineries from places like Sri Lanka, an island to the East as Nagarjuna visited.

in keeping the thread on topic, these are areas for the Prima Material I visited in my search. What I found was either nobody has translated the texts of the eastern alchemists or they've been destroyed or sitting ignored under lock and key somewhere, it's very difficult to find anything but references. My hope was they had plainly said something the Westerners had kept hidden, I found the tomb of the first Emperor of China with its replica of China with mercury river and lakes interesting as well the Five Element system instead of the 4 and 1 hidden.

Interesting bit about Damascus steel:


The reputation and history of Damascus steel has given rise to many legends, such as the ability to cut through a rifle barrel or to cut a hair falling across the blade.[7]*A research team in*Germany*published a report in 2006 revealing*nanowires*and*carbon nanotubes*in a blade forged from Damascus steel.[8][9][10]Although many types of modern steel outperform ancient Damascus alloys, chemical reactions in the production process made the blades extraordinary for their time, as Damascus steel was*superplastic*and very hard at the same time. During the*smeltingprocess to obtain Wootz steel ingots, woodybiomass*and leaves are known to have been used as*carburizing*additives along with certain specific types of iron rich inmicroalloying*elements. These ingots would then be further forged and worked into Damascus steel blades. Research now shows that carbon nanotubes can be derived from plant fibers,[11]*suggesting how the nanotubes were formed in the steel. Some experts expect to discover such nanotubes in more relics as they are analyzed more closely.[9]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel