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solomon levi
08-06-2017, 10:26 PM
greetings. I haven't given this much thought for a couple years, but stumbled upon this and i can see it's potential. Remembering Fulcanelli reporting how a few alchemist had said the black matter had been in their labs all along - at the time i imagined charcoal. But here's something they might have had in their labs as well.

"Jasper is rarely uniform in color. Mostly it is colorful with a sharper or milder areas of discoloration. From the few examples of jasper of uniform color it is basanite or Lydian stone. It is almost black and has been used since antiquity to the present to determine the purity of some precious metals."

http://www.rachitparihar.com/2009/12/basanite-mans-oldest-friend-in-assaying.html

Jasper could even have the streaks and veins of color some other alchemists have mentioned, like Roger Bacon: "Take in the Name of God and the Holy Trinity, fine and well cleansed Antimonii ore, which looks nice, white, pure and internally full of yellow rivulets or veins. It may also be full of red and blue colors and veins, which will be the best."

Anyway, just a thought/hunch, as i've studied much the path of oil of sand, and this being relatively high in alkalis and low in silica could easily be reduced, then having peridot, and other veins...

elixirmixer
08-06-2017, 10:55 PM
The medicinal value of some minerals must be so un-explored that many great elixirs I'm sure there are, that are waiting to be discovered.

Your work on oil of Sand sounds interesting! Is there a thread on that?

I'd love to see someone's completed mineral stone, as I have never seen one before.

Are you working with SM? If not, what solvents would you use on such a jasper? Radical vinegar?

JDP
08-07-2017, 12:28 AM
Anyway, just a thought/hunch, as i've studied much the path of oil of sand,

There is no such "path". The Stone can't be made out of silicates. They lack what it takes for generating the necessary "humidity" (i.e. the secret solvent) for that purpose. And no secret solvent = NO PHILOSOPHERS' STONE. However, some "particulars" do use "oil of sand", or its "dry" forms (i.e. solid potassium/sodium silicates.)

Schmuldvich
08-07-2017, 03:20 AM
I haven't given this much thought


"Jasper is rarely uniform in color. Mostly it is colorful with a sharper or milder areas of discoloration. From the few examples of jasper of uniform color it is basanite or Lydian stone. It is almost black and has been used since antiquity to the present to determine the purity of some precious metals."

Anyway, just a thought/hunch

I've studied much the path of oil of sand, and this being relatively high in alkalis and low in silica could easily be reduced, then having peridot, and other veins...

Awesome Eyes, solomon levi! Basanite clearly depicts our First Matter. Could it really be this simple!?



http://i.imgur.com/Gu9orxT.jpg


Your description of colors above and what we see in the image of basanite gives us much to think about!



Your work on oil of Sand sounds interesting! Is there a thread on that?

I'd love to see someone's completed mineral stone, as I have never seen one before.

What solvents would you use on such a jasper?

Our Alkahest...Our Universal Mercury! This is the way of the Alchemists; the ONLY Way!

Alchemy is nothing without our Solvent. JDP (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/member.php?8146-JDP) has graciously pointed this fact out for us time and time again, relentlessly.

A work on oil of sand will get you absolutely nowhere. Our black Sand and white Sand will get you somewhere!

The reason you have never seen someone's completed "mineral stone" is because it doesn't exist, unless with this manner of speech you are referring to THE Philosopher's Stone which is altogether Animal, Vegetable, and Mineral. The texts declare this openly.

elixirmixer
08-07-2017, 05:41 AM
Well in terms of the true form of alchemy I would have I agree. However, any natural processes that are used to obtain usable oils, I also find very interesting.

I believe that there is a method that involves SM alone as mercury and first matter, however, I think I get the jist that this is quite difficult to achieve and that it takes quite some time.

Therefore, using another matter, that has a well developed and Noble Sulfur, is a way you can grant yourself the elixir (or a elixir) of high level medicinal potency, which, obviously, if SM is used as the solvent, then the medicine will be quite incredible. However, as I've said before, MOST MATTERS, can be broken down alchemically and turned into a red 'stone'.

So if then, that is the case (and it is) then it leaves the question, what is "THE" stone, and then I believe tht goes back to the one matter one vessel ect... And the reason our stone is described as trice animal mineral vegetable, is because in fact it is the thing that gives birth to the three kingdoms, having all kingdoms within it, homogenous.

Therefore, all that being said, a lot of the work of the Artist is to choose the source of his/her Sulfur...

There is not one particular matter in my opinion tht is being spoken of, the spirit is the matter, however, all of these descriptions of making stones is to do just that, teach you the alchemical process required to make stones, because whether you made it from vegetable, animal, mineral, metallic, if you've done it right, with SM, it will be a red crystal that will melt like wax and it will be a potent medicine, since, the science of stoneship, rests in little else than the purification and recombination of the elements, in which you don't actually need Even SM, however, as I'm trying to express, the better the ingredients, the more quality the BBQ :cool: :D

JDP
08-07-2017, 05:59 PM
Well in terms of the true form of alchemy I would have I agree. However, any natural processes that are used to obtain usable oils, I also find very interesting.

I believe that there is a method that involves SM alone as mercury and first matter, however, I think I get the jist that this is quite difficult to achieve and that it takes quite some time.

Therefore, using another matter, that has a well developed and Noble Sulfur, is a way you can grant yourself the elixir (or a elixir) of high level medicinal potency, which, obviously, if SM is used as the solvent, then the medicine will be quite incredible. However, as I've said before, MOST MATTERS, can be broken down alchemically and turned into a red 'stone'.

So if then, that is the case (and it is) then it leaves the question, what is "THE" stone, and then I believe tht goes back to the one matter one vessel ect... And the reason our stone is described as trice animal mineral vegetable, is because in fact it is the thing that gives birth to the three kingdoms, having all kingdoms within it, homogenous.

Therefore, all that being said, a lot of the work of the Artist is to choose the source of his/her Sulfur...

There is not one particular matter in my opinion tht is being spoken of, the spirit is the matter, however, all of these descriptions of making stones is to do just that, teach you the alchemical process required to make stones, because whether you made it from vegetable, animal, mineral, metallic, if you've done it right, with SM, it will be a red crystal that will melt like wax and it will be a potent medicine, since, the science of stoneship, rests in little else than the purification and recombination of the elements, in which you don't actually need Even SM, however, as I'm trying to express, the better the ingredients, the more quality the BBQ :cool: :D

As I have pointed out many times, this is an incorrect and simply unrealistic view of the subject. Not only such an idea that there are "many Stones" or many totally different "paths" to achieve the Stone is condemned by most alchemists, but it also defies logic, common sense and reality. If there are so many "Stones", or alternatively, so many different "paths" using all sorts of different matters & operations to achieve the same Stone, then why has there been such a HUGE RATE OF FAILURE by countless legions of seekers??? You would think that by SHEER CHANCE ALONE the number of failures to achieve anything even resembling the Philosophers' Stone would be drastically cut down. BUT IT HAS NEVER BEEN SO. Out of THOUSANDS of seekers only a few succeed. Some old-timers tried to explain this by invoking "supernatural" things, like "God's permission", and such, but the answer is really more "mundane" and substantial: the reason why it is so difficult to succeed in alchemy is precisely because THE MAJORITY OF SUBSTANCES DO NOT WORK, and since most alchemical texts are purposefully vague, or elusive, or imprecise, or misleading, or obscure, or confusing, or contradictory, etc. regarding what are these substances that DO work and can be used to produce the Stone, then it is hardly surprising that the large majority of seekers will fail. There is no need to conjure up any alleged "supernatural" thing here to explain this high rate of failure. Simple odds & probabilities are more than enough to understand why so many seekers throughout history have failed and will continue to fail (until someone finally reveals to the whole world the true matters & operations in a totally clear manner, so that even the most incompetent people in the world can prepare it.) The comparatively reduced number of substances that can enter into the operations to make the Stone are therefore very difficult to figure out. Besides reading & comparing the old texts, you also need LOADS OF EMPIRICAL EXPERIENCE, otherwise you won't be able to eliminate false/erroneous theories and ideas that will naturally spring up in your mind as you try to decipher the said old texts in your effort to figure out the true matters & operations that can deliver positive results. Without a combination of the two, you are simply lost. The old texts can only give you a certain amount of information, then it is up to you to put to the test the ideas that you have come up with while trying to figure out the old texts. But you also need to be HONEST WITH YOURSELF, AND COOL-HEADED, AND REALISTIC, and not try to (using the colloquial expressions popular in this forum) "bullshit" yourself into thinking that you have succeeded, just because you have prepared some "red" or "white" substance and you DESPERATELY WANT TO BELIEVE YOU HAVE SUCCEEDED. You need to be ready to ACCEPT FAILURE AND BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF AND STOP TO DESPERATELY WANTING TO BELIEVE YOU HAVE SUCCEEDED, otherwise you are also lost. Since most alchemists made no secret regarding the main characteristics of the Stone, you can easily test whether the substance you have prepared is the genuine article. Does it transmute many times its own weight of other metals into silver or gold? No? THEN DON'T TRY TO "BULLSHIT" YOURSELF THAT YOU HAVE SOMEHOW "SUCCEEDED" AND MADE "SOME STONE", OR "THE STONE", BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT. You have made "something", but it sure as heck is not THE STONE. There aren't many substances around that can perform this most remarkable feat. So you CAN EASILY KNOW whether you have succeeded or not by performing such a simple test with your finished "product".

I will summarize all this for you a la Johnnie Cochran: "If your alleged Stone doesn't transmute, then it sure ain't good!", "If your alleged Stone doesn't change one into another, then you have failed, brother!", "If your alleged Stone does not turn lead into silver most bright, then you are surely not right!", "If your alleged Stone does not turn silver into most yellow & heavy gold, then you must begin again, for you have missed the goal!", etc.

Luxus
08-08-2017, 04:53 PM
The reason you have never seen someone's completed "mineral stone" is because it doesn't exist, unless with this manner of speech you are referring to THE Philosopher's Stone which is altogether Animal, Vegetable, and Mineral. The texts declare this openly.

Indeed!

"Rosinus: We use true nature because nature does not amend nature, unless it be into his own nature. There are three principal Stones of Philosophers. That is mineral, animal, and vegetable. A mineral Stone, a vegetable Stone, and an animal Stone, three in name but one in essence."

Kiorionis
08-08-2017, 06:08 PM
From the same quote:

There are three principal Stones of Philosophers.
Mineral Stones
Animal Stones (Blood Stone)
Vegetable Stones

Then there is the Universal Stone.

solomon levi
08-11-2017, 12:20 PM
haha. it is it's own solvent. low silica, high alkali. i'll have time tonight to reply. remember the many eyes also? another property of jasper
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/35/b0/4b/35b04b258bb53986a69be8513316aa33--stones-and-crystals-gem-stones.jpg

solomon levi
08-12-2017, 03:03 AM
so yeah, there are threads on the oil of sand/flints.
i haven't been very active here for several years but i'm sure you can search it in the forum.
if any one (who is allowed to think for themselves) cares to give it some attention,
the simplest "proof" of it is Len Cram. This guys grows opals - real opals, not the way synthetic opals are made.
If you understand alchemy, he can't do that without mercury, sulphur and salt, and he's doing it -
so don't tell me there's no solvent or whatever.
Anyway, i had these arguments years ago here and i'm not going to do that again.
If you guys want to listen to JDP be my guest. He seems awful afraid of open discussion doesn't he?
"Id rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned." - Richard Feynman
https://answersingenesis.org/geology/rocks-and-minerals/growing-opals-australian-style/

there's a lot more evidence from alchemical authors, RAMS, etc. What i learned the earth taught me.
I'm of the view that if you haven't learned how to see for yourself, then alchemical success is beyond you.
You can't accomplish what you don't understand.
If you're listening to JDP or me, or someone else is your "authority", then you have work to do.
You cannot do the art if you're not an artist. :)

So i'm just here to point. If you can't see what i'm pointing at, i'm not going to argue.
If i could block JDP i would because he seems like a real bummer.
I haven't been around much for a couple years, and i'm sorry to see this here.
But i'm just a guest - not going to camp out and preach at you like this:

"As I have pointed out many times, this is an incorrect and simply unrealistic view of the subject." - JDP

Why do you think JDP has to point this out so many times? Why does he so desperately need you to believe him?
I didn't even read the rest of his post - i've dealt with the type plenty. Don't let him control you.
Do you want to know what the subject is?
"I"
"I" is the subject of a sentence.
If you don't have your own "I" and are dependent on JDPs or anyone else's, you're already lost.
If you don't have eyes like the dragon (dereksthai: "to see clearly")... if your eyes can't see what's in front of your face, there's no hope.

If a teacher isn't teaching you how to see for yourself, then s/he's not teaching you.
Teaching how to see - not what to see... what to see is just programming... it's not "vive", living mercury.

Anyway, back to the topic.
So i don't have time to say and share all the links and quotes and stuff.
If you want to look into it, read that article above. Read about oil of sand/flints...
"Eighteenth Century Chemistry as it relates to Alchemy" is a great book, from Encyclopedia Brittania.
Read or watch videos on waterglass/sodium silicate solution/crystal trees.
Especially consider TEOS and how to make it from oil of sand - what would be added? Vinegar? Alcohol? :)
Consider the whole ormus thing with alkalis, and how metallic sodium can tur
quarry (n.1) Look up quarry at Dictionary.comn a gold coin into powder.
Alkahest - alkali est.
It's just putting all the connections together. There's a ton of green language to point the way. Most people i meet don't get it. :)
look at the words quartz, quarry, query, quercus, quarter...
The bible is full of clues too. It's all a matter of the questions you ask - that determines what you'll find... the context/dimensions of your vase.
http://biblehub.net/searchstrongs.php?q=flint
Study the earth - visit the interior of the earth and there find the hidden stone: VITRIOL... well, the interior of the earth is mostly iron silicates.
The earth is a crucible - Vulcan - volcanoes make volcanic glass and rock... there's frickin' sand everywhere.
Look into piezoelectricity... the iron core bears magnetism and the quartz bears electricity.
Iron clay is the matrix of quartz; quartz is a matrix of gold... put it together.
Think about it.
If JDP has a problem with you considering something that isn't his method, you should have a problem with JDP.
JDP pisses around like this is his territory. it's a shame. could be using all that urine for alchemy. :)


quarry - "what is hunted," early 14c., quirre "entrails of deer placed on the hide and given to dogs of the chase as a reward," from Anglo-French quirreie, Old French cuiriee "the spoil, quarry" (Modern French curée), altered (by influence of Old French cuir "skin," from Latin corium "hide")
"open place where rocks are excavated," c. 1400 (mid-13c. as a place name), from Medieval Latin quareia, dissimilated from quarreria (mid-13c.), literally "place where stones are squared," from Latin quadrare "to make square,"

well, i hope someone enjoys the post.
i'll pop back in to see how it evolves, but i'm not going to argue with someone like there's only one right answer to alchemy - what's the use?
everything comes from this one thing. how can one imagine there's only way when's there's so many things?
follow the chain.

Schmuldvich
08-12-2017, 05:40 AM
If i could block JDP i would because he seems like a real bummer.
If you desire to block AGAPDOTAJDP (Almighty Gatekeeper And Prince Defender Of The Art) JDP, you can do so with this link http://forum.alchemyforums.com/member.php?8146-JDP, clicking "Add to Ignore List". Be warned, you may forever be limiting your intake of decknamen and empirical evidence should you choose to take this action. You will be limiting your EXPOSURE TO ALL CAPS and blue text of high value. Proceed at your own risk. You have been warned.

JDP
08-12-2017, 05:46 AM
so yeah, there are threads on the oil of sand/flints.
i haven't been very active here for several years but i'm sure you can search it in the forum.
if any one (who is allowed to think for themselves) cares to give it some attention,
the simplest "proof" of it is Len Cram. This guys grows opals - real opals, not the way synthetic opals are made.
If you understand alchemy, he can't do that without mercury, sulphur and salt, and he's doing it -
so don't tell me there's no solvent or whatever.

The fact that you think that this has anything to do with alchemy already says much about how little you understand the subject. And even your "understanding" of plain ordinary chemistry is amusing, to say the least. As if opals were not made of silicates themselves!


Anyway, i had these arguments years ago here and i'm not going to do that again.

Not surprising, if we consider your previous "arguments" about opals and alchemy & ordinary chemistry. You will lose them all over again, no doubt.


If you guys want to listen to JDP be my guest. He seems awful afraid of open discussion doesn't he?

Well, pardon me for wanting to help misguided seekers like you get out of your erroneous theories/speculations. By all means go back to wasting your time and money with things that are not alchemical even by a huge stretch of the imagination.


there's a lot more evidence from alchemical authors, RAMS, etc.

Yes, from "CHYMISTS" (like Glauber and such), not actual alchemists. Like I said, the only use for "oil of sand" is in some "chymical particulars". For making the Stone it is useless. It is nothing other than a concentrated solution of alkali metal silicates. Where is the secret solvent INDISPENSABLE to make the Stone here???


What i learned the earth taught me.

Too bad that "the earth" does NOT know how to make the Stone. It is up to man to make it. Nature does NOT make it. Otherwise you would be able to find it in some cave somewhere already made. But no chance. It has never happened and it will never happen. It takes the intelligent intervention of man for it to be able to be produced. Tell "the earth" to give you your money and (even more precious) your time back!



If i could block JDP i would because he seems like a real bummer.
I haven't been around much for a couple years, and i'm sorry to see this here.
But i'm just a guest - not going to camp out and preach at you like this:

"Yes, naughty uncle JDP is such a bummer, he rains on my parade of erroneous speculations. I wish I could just block him so that I can continue to fool myself and others into thinking that I can somehow make the Stone from sand fused with alkalies and then deliquesced in the air!"


"As I have pointed out many times, this is an incorrect and simply unrealistic view of the subject." - JDP

Why do you think JDP has to point this out so many times?

Maybe because, much like you, the majority of seekers after the Stone have rather little empirical experience, also rather limited acquaintance with actual alchemical texts, and therefore often fall into outlandish or erroneous schemes.


Why does he so desperately need you to believe him?

Maybe because, unlike you, I don't find it "funny" or "amusing" to see people wasting their time and money on things that have virtually no chance of ever working. So whenever I consider it opportune, I like to point out problems with many seekers' theories regarding the subject, hoping that they will see the error of their conclusions and move on to other more probable ideas. But hey, if you enjoy sending people into blind alleys, be my guest. Just don't expect all of us to remain quiet and not point out for the benefit of others that there is no likely road to anywhere if you follow down that path.


I didn't even read the rest of his post - i've dealt with the type plenty. Don't let him control you.

"No, instead listen to my erroneous and unrealistic theories about soluble silicates being the matter of the Stone! Let my unrealistic hopes & dreams control you, and don't listen to anyone who points out the fallacies in my claims. Naughty-naughty, uncle JDP!!!"


Do you want to know what the subject is?
"I"
"I" is the subject of a sentence.
If you don't have your own "I" and are dependent on JDPs or anyone else's, you're already lost.
If you don't have eyes like the dragon (dereksthai: "to see clearly")... if your eyes can't see what's in front of your face, there's no hope.

Wow, says the guy trying to convince others about the outlandish theory that a solution of alkali silicates is the secret of making the Stone. So what really bothers you is just that I said that it is "I" who has pointed that out. Gee, maybe if I said "it has been pointed out many times", you would not be bothered by it, though the message would still be EXACTLY THE SAME. Word of advice: DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER just because he brings you "news" you don't want to hear.


If a teacher isn't teaching you how to see for yourself, then s/he's not teaching you.
Teaching how to see - not what to see... what to see is just programming... it's not "vive", living mercury.

Anyway, back to the topic.
So i don't have time to say and share all the links and quotes and stuff.
If you want to look into it, read that article above. Read about oil of sand/flints...
"Eighteenth Century Chemistry as it relates to Alchemy" is a great book, from Encyclopedia Brittania.

Written by an ORDINARY CHEMIST called Macquer:

https://books.google.com/books?id=3O44AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=%22the+object+and+chief+end+of+chymistry%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiCk6ux9tDVAhXF2yYKHaR0DP4Q6AEIJjAA#v=on epage&q=%22the%20object%20and%20chief%20end%20of%20chymi stry%22&f=false

who not only was NOT an alchemist but in fact was generally scornful towards alchemy. You just keep on proving my point that you have some rather nebulous ideas on these subjects.


Read or watch videos on waterglass/sodium silicate solution/crystal trees.

Which, once again, have NOTHING to do with the Philosophers' Stone. Glauber had already written very clearly how to prepare such alkaline silicates, there is nothing remotely "secret" about it, and no one has made the Stone with it, including Glauber himself, who only made claims about being able to get some gold from some ("particular") processes involving these substances. Getting some gold from iron or silver or any other metal by using "oil of sand" as one of the reagents involved in such processes does NOT mean that you can make the Stone with it. You need to learn to distinguish between such "cymical" processes and those of alchemy. Alchemy NEEDS a very special and specific solvent to work, unlike "chymistry", which has a much larger "arsenal" of substances to work with.


Especially consider TEOS and how to make it from oil of sand - what would be added? Vinegar? Alcohol? :)
Consider the whole ormus thing with alkalis, and how metallic sodium can tur
quarry (n.1) Look up quarry at Dictionary.comn a gold coin into powder.
Alkahest - alkali est.

"Ormus"??? Oh, boy, as if such a thing was actually real! And I thought this could have turned out to be a "serious" discussion regarding actual alchemy.


It's just putting all the connections together. There's a ton of green language to point the way. Most people i meet don't get it. :)
look at the words quartz, quarry, query, quercus, quarter...
The bible is full of clues too. It's all a matter of the questions you ask - that determines what you'll find... the context/dimensions of your vase.
http://biblehub.net/searchstrongs.php?q=flint
Study the earth - visit the interior of the earth and there find the hidden stone: VITRIOL... well, the interior of the earth is mostly iron silicates.
The earth is a crucible - Vulcan - volcanoes make volcanic glass and rock... there's frickin' sand everywhere.
Look into piezoelectricity... the iron core bears magnetism and the quartz bears electricity.
Iron clay is the matrix of quartz; quartz is a matrix of gold... put it together.
Think about it.
If JDP has a problem with you considering something that isn't his method, you should have a problem with JDP.
JDP pisses around like this is his territory. it's a shame. could be using all that urine for alchemy. :)

Says the guy who has been "pissing" around these forums since 2009!


quarry - "what is hunted," early 14c., quirre "entrails of deer placed on the hide and given to dogs of the chase as a reward," from Anglo-French quirreie, Old French cuiriee "the spoil, quarry" (Modern French curée), altered (by influence of Old French cuir "skin," from Latin corium "hide")
"open place where rocks are excavated," c. 1400 (mid-13c. as a place name), from Medieval Latin quareia, dissimilated from quarreria (mid-13c.), literally "place where stones are squared," from Latin quadrare "to make square,"

well, i hope someone enjoys the post.
i'll pop back in to see how it evolves, but i'm not going to argue with someone like there's only one right answer to alchemy - what's the use?
everything comes from this one thing. how can one imagine there's only way when's there's so many things?
follow the chain.

If you weren't so busy living in La-La Land and attacking those who try to bring you back to reality, and instead paid attention to actual logical arguments, based on history, common sense, empirical experience, etc., you would see how unrealistic is your whole "there must be many different ways using all manner of different and unrelated matters to make the Stone" fantasy. I could advice you to read several of the things that I... err, "have been said" (I will try to avoid the "I" since you seem to have such a phobia for this word), but it is better to quote here what the 10th century Arabic alchemist, Ibn Umail (the famous "Senior Zadith, Son of Hamuel" so much quoted and revered by the Latin alchemists) said on the subject in his Book of the Silvery Water and the Starry Earth:

They (i.e. the alchemists, or "sages", as Ibn Umail usually calls his colleagues) called this stone by all names, and they said: "Our science is in everything". It is one of their sophisms against men (i.e. the countless seekers after the Stone). From that (statement), these (i.e. the seekers) have WASTED THEIR MONEY AND THEIR MIND; they have worked hard for the preparation of everything, they were stubborn in their presumption. Being ignorant, they believed that the Stone is in everything they prepared, so it can be prepared with everything, they believe in their wrong understanding.

What Ibn Umail is here pointing out is that even in his times a bunch of seekers had also come to the erroneous conclusion that you can make the Stone from virtually anything (and Ibn Umail attributes this mistaken idea to the malicious purposefully misleading statements of some "sages", as he mentions in the above quote.) But reality always kicks in and shows to these poor misguided people that such a wishful idea is hardly the case. The materials that make up the Stone are very specific and limited, not just about "anything" works. It doesn't seem to ever occur to the said deluded & misguided people that if their fantasy that the Stone can be made from a whole bunch of different unrelated things was real then the rate of failure among seekers should be drastically cut down. Even just by sheer chance alone, the number of successes would be in more equal terms to the number of failures. But we can plainly see that this has hardly been the case, and it is still hardly the case today. Most seekers fail. Few achieve the goal. Why? The reason is in fact because most seekers simply fail to stumble upon the correct substances to work with, that simple. And since their number is relatively small, it is hardly surprising at all to see such a high rate of failure among seekers as opposed to success.

Schmuldvich
08-12-2017, 06:17 AM
Told ya! :D






Really though, truthfully speaking, we can all learn from this guy. AGAPDOTAJDP speaks 90% truth. He knows a lot more than ...well... 95% of this message board's members about Alchemy...and he proves it each and every single time he posts. We can all learn from Almighty Gatekeeper And Prince Defender Of The Art JDP. Most people haven't got half a clue about Alchemy, but this guy does. He relentlessly shares valuable insights including blue text quotes(!) and [mostly] understands our Art; way more than most here. For this site being called "Alchemy Forums", people here know so little about Alchemy.

Andro
08-12-2017, 07:32 AM
I personally think "Green Language" is not about phonetics and word similarities.

This is a big trap, IMO. Such cases of "linguistic synchronicity" (and synchronicity in general) are much like "Google Ads".

The VR mainframe shows us similarities and correspondences according to our searching/seeking patterns and life-clicking/bait-biting habits :)

It's much more about subtext and what is not being said (or is being said "between the words").

Assuming there's anything that really matters, it can not be expressed in words. IMO.

Recipes/methods for the Philosopher's Stone can be conveyed in plain words/language. Recipes however, do not come bundled with inner-standing. And yes, there is a lot of secrecy around it. Just as there is a lot of deception (intentional or not), both from seekers who post on forums as well as from 'older' alchemical writers. And those who make claims such as "helping you see" are (in many cases) even blinder than you are. And those who are on crusades of "saving people from false/dead-end paths" are (in many cases) more stuck on dead-end paths than you are.

Everything contains "our subject". However, not everything can be "worked" with in Alchemy. I'm certainly not going to attempt preparing the Secret Solvent from plastic :)

Many people here are making very good points, but those good points are oh-so-often mixed and contaminated with ego and personal biases & beliefs.

I guess the genuine adepts stay silent for good reason. Why re-join this mental cacophony when you've already found your way out...

Listen to the birds (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0s4vehHxV4&feature=youtu.be&t=40) :)

solomon levi
08-13-2017, 12:35 PM
what is the ignore list? i can ignore him just fine. i want my posts to not be visible by him (not like he can actually see what anyone else is saying anyway). does that happen on the ignore list?
anyway, i see he replied to a list of things but i've no interest in reading his predictable drivel written for his audience of followers.

Andro, what can i say? I use green language everyday. It's not a matter of belief or opinion for me. Language is branches/fractals/DNA into the past/time.
it works when you work it :) i didn't invent the words to have similar roots. I didn't decide heavy and heaven should be so similar.
Anyway, i'm not here to sell green language. I just dropped in to share and to talk with whoever wants to listen. Don't see any so i'll see you guys later.

solomon levi
08-13-2017, 01:14 PM
we can talk about green language in another thread if you want.
i don't see what the danger is?
If you see the word Jupiter, and all you think is "Jupiter" when you see that word,
then you're at a disadvantage to someone who also sees Pater Zeus. It's just that simple.

Illen A. Cluf
08-13-2017, 02:00 PM
I guess the genuine adepts stay silent for good reason. Why re-join this mental cacophony when you've already found your way out...



If that's the case, then exactly what is the purpose of this and other alchemy forums? Isn't it to express opinions based on our levels of learning and understanding? Isn't that exactly what JDP is doing? I would argue that it's exactly those people with the biggest egos who remain fixed and unchangeable with their own views, to the point that they will go so far as to block out what they don't want to hear, in order to enhance and protect their incredible bias and ego.

I have known JDP for a very long time, and his research, dedication and understanding for real alchemy likely exceeds anyone on this forum. It would be a total shame not to listen to what he has to say. Sure, he hasn't yet made the Stone, but he's on a much more solid base, in terms of traditional, authentic alchemy, than many of the ludicrous and highly imaginative and un-alchemical approaches that I have seen others make over the many years. I know for a fact that what he presents is indeed for the benefit of others who may not have had the opportunity to review the many rare and authentic old treatises that he has had access to, and it is not for egotistical purposes. The confidence based on deep knowledge derived from decades of learning and experience is often wrongly misinterpreted as ego. It's the very same type of confidence that you see expressed by knowledgeable teachers towards their students. Not having made the Stone does not mean that that person hasn't been able to uncover much of the meaning that alchemists hid in their treatises. Making the Stone requires VERY precise measurements in terms of weights, proportions, temperatures, conditions, etc., so that even if you do know the starting matters and the general process, it might still take years to perfect the necessary details that result in eventual success.

JDP and others are merely trying to point out when others stray far away from very basic and traditional alchemical principles in order to help them focus and to save them time, resources and energy. Many of the people on this forum, other forums, and the numerous garbage books that are flooding the market today, are only attempting to invent brand new, imaginative approaches to what they think is alchemy. Just look at all the numerous books on making all sorts of glasses, etc. from antimony! Some of these books even use "real alchemy" in their titles! If you wish to engage in this type of fantasy, then go for it and block people like JDP and others from your sense of unreality. Imagination can be fun for its own sake. But if you are truly, and sincerely interested in authentic, traditional alchemical approaches based on real adepts, then people like JDP may not be able to provide you with all the answers, but they can certainly steer you in the proper general direction. I don't necessarily agree with everything that he says, but at least I keep an open mind and listen and consider. As I do with anyone who posts here.

Based on his level of knowledge, I'm surprised that he continues to provide gems of wisdom to those who continue to mock his understanding, in order to boost their own egos and personal biases in protecting their very limited views. I'm sure that others would - and have - more or less given up.

I'm not trying to be critical, just trying to point out to some of you out there that, based on my own limited understanding and experience, there are many treasures in what JDP and others sometimes try to say, even if they may seem somewhat over-confident. If you don't agree with their contributions, at least listen, keep an open mind, take it under serious consideration, and test it for yourself. Don't be bullied by those who try to minimize his most valuable contributions and try to replace them with their own unsubstantiated biases.

alfr
08-13-2017, 03:56 PM
Hi As I always say in my post (i am for speak very open and very clear abuot the secret of alchemy in this tragic sicle 2000)
but if we want to find the real alchemical secret keys I just only have to look at the texts of the ancient and only in true alchemical traditions and we must forghet the all the modernist rubish this must are the base

But I could possibly look at the most generous texts and manuscripts example parigino that was a disciple of raimondo lullo and so see him veri explicative mss voiletta summetta and luicidarius and then weindelfel secretum adeptorum and prodromus that on svp and its composition is already more than generous
And so there is plenty in it, and there are generous and very explicit texts on the philosophical secrets of menstrum to which I would add the kunckel and his dispute with the plot and his epistle against spiritus vini sine acid and of Poleman, Joachim., F. H discipe of van hemont the very generos and esplicative mss now translation the novum lumen medicum

here the links

cristoforo parigino mss very clear and esplicit in the methods from solvet philosophical etc summetta violetta lucidarius

http://brbl-dl.library.yale.edu/vufind/Record/3792464

weindelfel secretum adeptorum

http://www.abardoncompanion.de/Alex/Weidenfeld.pdf

weindelfeld prodromus

https://www.scribd.com/document/341659938/From-Weidenfeld-s-Prodromus-Libri-Secundi-1

kunckel
Epistola contra Spiritum vini sine acid

https://books.google.it/books?id=bZhYAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ViewAPI&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

Poleman, Joachim., F. H novum lumen medicum

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A55298.0001.001/1:3?rgn=div1;view=fulltext

kunckel and plot and they Discuss how to create SVP with mortifcan methods
With acid

http://eprints.lincoln.ac.uk/14610/1/291006.proof.pdf

Which is small and how it is described in the pdf is very interesting and that it would be well translated and extremely interesting are the counterclaims of kunckel and plot see pdf attached here as you can see in the times in open environments without para eyes or vision Dull the search was open and explicit

NB so now
if we want we all together can deep and study and analised and experiment all this true very clear key secret OF THESE SOLVENT PHILOSOPHICAL SOLAR SVP etc ...

.................................................. ...............................

imho JDP and his contribution to knowing and experiencing if he enriches research is more than well-appreciated and always welcomes (When one If he knows more Learning is always good and beautiful) as also the all welcome at the contribtion of solomon and him interesting propous and esperiments
( nb toeltius an thesauro tesaurorum rc speak of some stone made by material and oli of silice also the hyle coahyle write about it material and also boyle write about it and the attibuite 3 part of chain aurea homeri also etc ) and always very accelent to read is a contribute of andro al contribute can give more light an the more key for open the arcanum of the alchemy are always all in the respect of many difference is very always welcome

my best regard

Andro
08-13-2017, 04:25 PM
Illen - I don't know who you are addressing this to, but I am personally not blocking/ignoring anyone.

I'm reading almost everything that's being posted here, and I have no problem whatsoever with anyone posting their perspectives and experiences, as long as they keep a respectful tone and do not make things personal. For example, people may or may not like JDP's approach to Alchemy, but he is under a lot of personal fire for his views - and this, to me, is unacceptable, both as (current) moderator and mostly as a regular forum member since 2009. There were forum members in the past (no longer with us) who, no doubt, had some valuable insights to share - however, their personal conduct was unacceptable according to this forum's Rules & Guidelines.


I just dropped in to share and to talk with whoever wants to listen. Don't see any so i'll see you guys later.

I also don't see why anyone would post only when there is an 'audience' ("someone who wants to listen"). Sometimes, we can just write for the sake of writing. And sometimes, people will disagree. Doesn't mean you just go away because someone dislikes your views or disagrees with them, let alone wishing another person to be "blocked" from seeing your posts.


I would argue that it's exactly those people with the biggest egos who remain fixed and unchangeable with their own views, to the point that they will go so far as to block out what they don't want to hear, in order to enhance and protect their incredible bias and ego.

For me, it is OK for someone to be either fixed, flexible or anywhere in between. As long as one is not an accomplished Adept in bringing the Philosopher's Stone to successful completion, it will be like Illen wrote:


If that's the case, then exactly what is the purpose of this and other alchemy forums? Isn't it to express opinions based on our levels of learning and understanding?

I would agree that this is indeed a significant part of the purpose.


i want my posts to not be visible by him (not like he can actually see what anyone else is saying anyway). does that happen on the ignore list?
anyway, i see he replied to a list of things but i've no interest in reading his predictable drivel written for his audience of followers.

Then just don't read his posts. The "Ignore" function doesn't hide your posts from specific members, unless those members have placed you on their "Ignore" list.

If it's so important to you, send a PM to JDP and ask him to place you on his "Ignore" list, and then he will not see your posts when he is logged in.

JDP
08-13-2017, 05:14 PM
what is the ignore list? i can ignore him just fine. i want my posts to not be visible by him (not like he can actually see what anyone else is saying anyway). does that happen on the ignore list?
anyway, i see he replied to a list of things but i've no interest in reading his predictable drivel written for his audience of followers.

More like you don't really have any valid counterarguments to my points.

JDP
08-13-2017, 05:19 PM
If that's the case, then exactly what is the purpose of this and other alchemy forums? Isn't it to express opinions based on our levels of learning and understanding? Isn't that exactly what JDP is doing? I would argue that it's exactly those people with the biggest egos who remain fixed and unchangeable with their own views, to the point that they will go so far as to block out what they don't want to hear, in order to enhance and protect their incredible bias and ego.

I have known JDP for a very long time, and his research, dedication and understanding for real alchemy likely exceeds anyone on this forum. It would be a total shame not to listen to what he has to say. Sure, he hasn't yet made the Stone, but he's on a much more solid base, in terms of traditional, authentic alchemy, than many of the ludicrous and highly imaginative and un-alchemical approaches that I have seen others make over the many years. I know for a fact that what he presents is indeed for the benefit of others who may not have had the opportunity to review the many rare and authentic old treatises that he has had access to, and it is not for egotistical purposes. The confidence based on deep knowledge derived from decades of learning and experience is often wrongly misinterpreted as ego. It's the very same type of confidence that you see expressed by knowledgeable teachers towards their students. Not having made the Stone does not mean that that person hasn't been able to uncover much of the meaning that alchemists hid in their treatises. Making the Stone requires VERY precise measurements in terms of weights, proportions, temperatures, conditions, etc., so that even if you do know the starting matters and the general process, it might still take years to perfect the necessary details that result in eventual success.

JDP and others are merely trying to point out when others stray far away from very basic and traditional alchemical principles in order to help them focus and to save them time, resources and energy. Many of the people on this forum, other forums, and the numerous garbage books that are flooding the market today, are only attempting to invent brand new, imaginative approaches to what they think is alchemy. Just look at all the numerous books on making all sorts of glasses, etc. from antimony! Some of these books even use "real alchemy" in their titles! If you wish to engage in this type of fantasy, then go for it and block people like JDP and others from your sense of unreality. Imagination can be fun for its own sake. But if you are truly, and sincerely interested in authentic, traditional alchemical approaches based on real adepts, then people like JDP may not be able to provide you with all the answers, but they can certainly steer you in the proper general direction. I don't necessarily agree with everything that he says, but at least I keep an open mind and listen and consider. As I do with anyone who posts here.

Based on his level of knowledge, I'm surprised that he continues to provide gems of wisdom to those who continue to mock his understanding, in order to boost their own egos and personal biases in protecting their very limited views. I'm sure that others would - and have - more or less given up.

I'm not trying to be critical, just trying to point out to some of you out there that, based on my own limited understanding and experience, there are many treasures in what JDP and others sometimes try to say, even if they may seem somewhat over-confident. If you don't agree with their contributions, at least listen, keep an open mind, take it under serious consideration, and test it for yourself. Don't be bullied by those who try to minimize his most valuable contributions and try to replace them with their own unsubstantiated biases.

Quite to the point comments, Illen. The fellow's offensive knee-jerk reaction to my normal comments at the start of the thread is very telling of the type of person he is. It appears that his ego was deeply hurt when someone came along "challenging" his claims. If people like this only fooled themselves, that would be fine, it would be their prerogative to do so, but unfortunately if no one challenges their claims they might in fact end up fooling other people into wasting time and money on things that are highly unlikely to ever work.

Schmuldvich
08-13-2017, 05:26 PM
I haven't given this much thought


"Jasper is rarely uniform in color. Mostly it is colorful with a sharper or milder areas of discoloration. From the few examples of jasper of uniform color it is basanite or Lydian stone. It is almost black and has been used since antiquity to the present to determine the purity of some precious metals."

Anyway, just a thought/hunch

I've studied much the path of oil of sand, and this being relatively high in alkalis and low in silica could easily be reduced, then having peridot, and other veins...


Awesome Eyes, solomon levi! Basanite clearly depicts our First Matter. Could it really be this simple!?



http://i.imgur.com/Gu9orxT.jpg


Your description of colors above and what we see in the image of basanite gives us much to think about!

Does anyone else see the similarities between basanite and our Matter?

Illen A. Cluf
08-13-2017, 05:37 PM
Illen - I don't know who you are addressing this to, but I am personally not blocking/ignoring anyone.



It wasn't directed towards you at all, Andro. Your post just provided a convenient segway into defending JDP from some unwarranted vitriol by others in general. I for one, have gained a lot of knowledge from JDP's posts, and wanted to stress to others that there is much value in them, before they become too convinced by some of the naysayers.

Illen A. Cluf
08-13-2017, 05:51 PM
"if no one challenges their claims they might in fact end up fooling other people into wasting time and money on things that are highly unlikely to ever work."

Exactly!! This is the best thing about these discussion forums. it provides a place where ideas can be put to the test, just like in scientific forums and journals. Constructive criticism should be highly valued, not ridiculed, and people shouldn't feel ashamed to change their views based on new and better informed information. I can't even begin to count the number of times I have totally changed my theories, and may again change them tomorrow if better information comes along. None of these ideas 'belong' to us. They were formulated thousands of years ago by others, and meant only for the benefit of the sincere and passionate researcher, as they often stated. All we can do is continue to accumulate more and more pieces of the puzzle until it begins to fit together in a recognizable picture. Thus, until the entire picture becomes visible, nobody has the full picture, but everybody can contribute in their own ways, based on the different pieces that they may have found. We can all then test those pieces to see if they really fit, and if they don't, stating rationale reasons why they don't fit, along with references to legitimate texts is the responsible approach, not attacking the person who offered the pieces in the first place.

Schmuldvich
08-13-2017, 06:05 PM
Exactly!! This is the best thing about these discussion forums. it provides a place where ideas can be put to the test, just like in scientific forums and journals. Constructive criticism should be highly valued, not ridiculed, and people shouldn't feel ashamed to change their views based on new and better informed information.

None of these ideas 'belong' to us. They were formulated thousands of years ago by others, and meant only for the benefit of the sincere and passionate researcher, as they often stated. All we can do is continue to accumulate more and more pieces of the puzzle until it begins to fit together in a recognizable picture. Thus, until the entire picture becomes visible, nobody has the full picture, but everybody can contribute in their own ways, based on the different pieces that they may have found.
YES! That is what turns others off to Alchemy so easily. Most people are not ready for a multi-year/decade long puzzle, which funny enough is why Alchemy has such an appeal to me...



http://i.imgur.com/J6T2zmf.jpg
Our Gold within the Black

Awani
08-13-2017, 06:26 PM
Sure, he hasn't yet made the Stone, but he's on a much more solid base, in terms of traditional, authentic alchemy, than many of the ludicrous and highly imaginative and un-alchemical approaches that I have seen others make over the many years.

I think more people would listen to him more, if he tried to post his arguments with a little more humility rather than act like some know-it-all who - as it turns out - cannot give PROOF (which he loves so much) that what he knows is TRUTH, since he has not made the Stone.

This is the main reason why so many cannot respect JDP.

There is also another aspect. Everyone in these forums work with alchemy for a wide variety of reasons, and JDP cannot be judge and jury on what is the correct "path" of alchemy. If someone does inner work only, or something else or follow lab work dogma by the book... who cares? JDP is not the alchemy police. He is simply a nobody, like everyone else. Probably with "less" gold as well, or it wouldn't be his main concern.


Constructive criticism should be highly valued...

I agree... but maybe JDP should read a book on how to give constructive criticism, because frankly he is not very good at the "constructive" bit (although I think he might fool himself that what he writes is constructive, but in reality it is more written in a condescending tone... at least that is my impression).


...if no one challenges their claims they might in fact end up fooling other people into wasting time and money on things that are highly unlikely to ever work.

And who is to say you are not doing the same (which I think you are). Again, you are not the FBI of alchemy. If you see a fool, what is it to you? If I wanted to educate every fool I meet on the street I would not have time to go to work, or raise a child... or even cook dinner. Sounds exhausting. Let fools be fools... because if you don't, the fool is you.

:p

Schmuldvich
08-13-2017, 06:40 PM
JDP cannot be judge and jury on what is the correct "path" of alchemy.
JDP is not the alchemy police.
Again, JDP is not the FBI of alchemy.
If you see a fool, what is it to you?

He is not the FBI. He is not the police. He is not judge and jury. He is...




AGAPDOTAJDP
(Almighty Gatekeeper And Prince Defender Of The Art) JDP!


http://i.imgur.com/ZpfwfFS.jpg

JDP
08-13-2017, 08:02 PM
I think more people would listen to him more, if he tried to post his arguments with a little more humility rather than act like some know-it-all who - as it turns out - cannot give PROOF (which he loves so much) that what he knows is TRUTH, since he has not made the Stone.

This is the main reason why so many cannot respect JDP.

Funny, plenty of others around here boldly speak and make assurances about things that they themselves also cannot give PROOF of (like "Spiritus Mundi", "astral projections", "psychic powers", "inner alchemy", Jedi Knights, etc.), yet you seem to have no problem with it. In fact, YOU ARE ONE OF THEM. It seems you only have a problem with someone who defends actual alchemy (as presented by the bulk of alchemists themselves) and its very real and tangible goals.


There is also another aspect. Everyone in these forums work with alchemy for a wide variety of reasons, and JDP cannot be judge and jury on what is the correct "path" of alchemy. If someone does inner work only, or something else or follow lab work dogma by the book... who cares? JDP is not the alchemy police. He is simply a nobody, like everyone else. Probably with "less" gold as well, or it wouldn't be his main concern.

I can't, but the alchemists themselves can. And what they say is that without the "water", "mercury", secret solvent, etc. of alchemy there is no hope of success. It seems that this bothers some people around here IMMENSELY. I wonder why? Could it just maybe -just maybe- be the fact that some people get EXTREMELY IRRITATED when their cherished theories/speculations/dreams/fantasies are shown to be faulty or have no evidence in their favor at all that they are actually real? Yes, yes, I think so!


I agree... but maybe JDP should read a book on how to give constructive criticism, because frankly he is not very good at the "constructive" bit (although I think he might fool himself that what he writes is constructive, but in reality it is more written in a condescending tone... at least that is my impression).

So according to you "constructive criticism" should be allowing outlandish and erroneous claims to go around unchallenged. Never mind historical evidence, empirical evidence, common sense, logic, etc. I wonder why you made a public forum, then? Plus if you were experienced at debating with stubborn people you should already know that most of the time you have to be a bit "forceful" in your manner of exposition, otherwise it enters through one ear and goes straight out through the other one without the "message" actually staying were it should be staying (viz. right in the middle: the brain.)

And by the way, I find it quite amusing & hypocritical that some people in this thread are criticizing me when it fact it was the OP who started the truly rude, condescending and hardly "constructive" comments as a knee-jerk reaction to my comments. Anyone going back in the thread can see that.



And who is to say you are not doing the same (which I think you are). Again, you are not the FBI of alchemy. If you see a fool, what is it to you? If I wanted to educate every fool I meet on the street I would not have time to go to work, or raise a child... or even cook dinner. Sounds exhausting. Let fools be fools... because if you don't, the fool is you.

:p

Aha, and in the process of keeping quiet the said "fools" can many times "fool" a lot of people to follow them into doing foolish things. If no one says anything, then sooner or later you may have a veritable army of such "fools", who in their turn always manage to further drag more people into the "Fool Pool"; a vicious circle. I don't see any problem in warning others about the risk of following said "fools", but apparently it is OK with you.

JDP
08-13-2017, 08:06 PM
YES! That is what turns others off to Alchemy so easily. Most people are not ready for a multi-year/decade long puzzle, which funny enough is why Alchemy has such an appeal to me...



http://i.imgur.com/J6T2zmf.jpg
Our Gold within the Black

It looks like... a sushi roll!

http://cdn8.beyondkimchee.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/tutorial-23.jpg

Awani
08-13-2017, 09:20 PM
Funny, plenty of others around here boldly speak and make assurances about things...

Those "things" are often about things that YOU cannot have any experience of yourself, unless you learn, or do, those things. And why does anyone need to prove anything? You never seem to understand this simple notion, that the spiritual path can only be understood and proven by the spiritual pilgrim himself (or herself). Anyone who is not on such a path cannot understand, nor can they be proven anything.


Could it just maybe... some people get EXTREMELY IRRITATED when their cherished theories/speculations/dreams/fantasies are shown to be faulty or have no evidence in their favor at all that they are actually real? Yes, yes, I think so!

I can only speak for myself, and in my own case NOTHING of what you have said has proved to me that I am wrong.


...if you were experienced at debating with stubborn people you should already know that most of the time you have to be a bit "forceful" in your manner of exposition...

Nope, this is the wrong tactic. If you are so in tune with the scientific method, then why don't you experiment and try another approach... evaluate and then conclude which worked best. That is usually how I go about doing things.

"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes." ― Winston S. Churchill

:p

elixirmixer
08-13-2017, 09:39 PM
It's seems to me that those of you who waste your time arguing amongst yourselves are mostly of the collection of people who have not obtained the SS.

Not that I mind; you guys are hilarious to observe.

I think ALL of us could put in a little more effort to be better at communicating. At the end of the day, a difference of opinion doesn't need to lead to an argument at all. I am personally if the school of thought that all you mineral hunters have still got YEARS before you find SS because your in completely the wrong place (!IMO!) and it's no different from the other side of the fence, them thinking that our vapour is just water drops or something else that's easily explained and couldn't possibly dissolve gold like butter.

I think everyone's points are quite valid, however, maybe the more argumentative points don't need To be repeated soo often.

Back to the subject matter: I will Never be of the opinion that my source matter is found in minerals, even though I'm sure there is a process to extract SS from them, it wouldn't bother me, since this will already be specified and therefore, probably only be good for transmutation, of which I have only very little interest. I would also call this style of stoneship "The Mineral Stone" and NOT the Philosophers Stone.

Philosophers were masters of exactly that, philosophy. Not bio-geochemistry. IMO

True Initiate
08-13-2017, 11:27 PM
In the 21st century there are many different forms of Alchemy but we need to separate them from one another. The biggest damage was done by Carl Gustav Jung and his psychological analysis of alchemy. After spending 8 years on this forum i can't believe that we are not past this point.

Schmuldvich
08-13-2017, 11:48 PM
In the 21st century there are many different forms of Alchemy but we need to separate them from one another.
Why is this such commonthought of this message board!?

There is no Truth to this at all.

There are not "many forms" of Alchemy...at all.

Alchemy was, is, and will forever remain the same.








"The Mirror Of Alchemy" by Roger Bacon, 1260

For Hermes said of this Science: Alchemy is a Corporal Science simply composed of one and by one, naturally conjoining things more precious, by knowledge and effect, and converting them by a natural commixtion into a better kind.

A certain other said: Alchemy is a Science, teaching how to transform any kind of metal into another: and that by a proper medicine, as it appeared by many Philosophers’ Books.

Alchemy therefore is a science teaching how to make and compound a certain medicine, which is called Elixir, the which when it is cast upon metals or imperfect bodies, does fully perfect them in the very projection.





"The New Pearl Of Great Price" by Peter Bonus, 1339

Concerning this admirable, excellent, divine, and most secret Art, it is a matter of no ordinary difficulty to satisfactorily resolve the question of the actuality thereof, but, as appears from Aristotle, it is absurd to prove the existence of Nature, or to argue the possibility of what is know. Our subject is the transmutation of metals into true gold and silver by the skill of art. Alchemy is the Art by which the principles, causes, activities, properties, and affections of metals are thoroughly apprehended; and by means of this knowledge those metals which are imperfect, incomplete, mixed, and corrupt, and therefore base, are transmuted into gold and silver. Alchemy is an operative science, and produces effects by supplying natural conditions, e.g., by the action of fire.

And the claims of the Art itself appear so miraculous, and so far exalted above the ordinary course of Nature, that the vulgar herd are of necessity led to regard the Alchemist as a kind of sorcerer or magician, and to place his pretensions in the same class with those of the man who professes to work signs and wonders. Nevertheless, I stoutly maintain that the Art of Alchemy is clear and true, and founded upon Nature.

The fact is that, in producing gold, the Art of Alchemy does not pretend to imitate in the whole work of Nature. It does not create metals, or even develop them out of the metallic first substance; it only takes up the unfinished handiwork of Nature and completes it.

As to the brief space of time required for the conversion in our Art, it must not be thought that we bring this about by exposing metals in the furnace to the sudden operation of fierce heat. If we did so, their metallic moisture would, of course, be destroyed and dried up. But we only just melt the imperfect metals over the fire, and then add to them the Philosopher’s Stone, which, in a moment of time, imparts to them the form of gold, thus changing and ennobling their nature.





"Splendor Solis" by Solomon Trismosin, 1582

The most noble Art and comforter of the poor, above all natural arts, which man may ever have on earth, the noble Alchemy, is to be esteemed as the gift of God; for it is hidden mostly in manifold proverbs, figurative sayings and parables of the old Sages. Whosoever therefore will act wisely should search for the Wisdom of the old Philosophers, which is shown in the wit and Artfulness of the manifold parables and roundabout sayings, thus hiding the proper operations and thus rendering their unriddling difficult.

To think over these things requires a very subtle mind, and only those with suitable faculties and knowledge will find it easy and natural. ‘For those who have no natural understandings of these things, there is nothing so precious in Nature as he who possesses this Art; he is like one ‘who had a flint from which he strikes fire and gives to whosoever he likes, without the stone getting any smaller through it’. It is as good as giving superfluous fine Gold.

This Art is also better than all commerce, Gold and Silver, and her fruits are better than the wealth of all the world. For by means of this Art, is obtained that which furthers long life, health, her youngest fruit being the true Aurum, the most powerful balm and most precious gift of God, which the old Philosophers could find in Nature with their Art.





"Man, The Best And Most Perfect Of God’s Creatures" by Benedict Figulus, 1607

Prepared as medicine and sweet food, when taken into the mouth it may immediately penetrate the human frame, greatly holding to itself every fleshly thing, increasing, restoring, and nourishing the incorrupt virtue and spirit of life, digesting the crude and undigested, removing the superfluous, making natural water abound, and augmenting, comforting, and inflaming natural heat or fire. The above will be the duty of the true physician and sane philosopher.

For thus will he be able to preserve our body from corruption, to retard old age, retain florid youth in full vigour, and, if possible, to perpetuate it, at least to preserve it from death and destruction.





"An Open Entrance To The Closed Palace Of The King" by Philalethes, 1667

He that has once found this Art, can have nothing else in all the world to wish for, than that he may be allowed to serve his God in peace and safety. He will not care for pomp or dazzling outward show.

But if he lived a thousand years, and daily entertained a million people, he could never come to want, since he has at hand the means of indefinitely multiplying the Stone both in weight and virtue, and thus of changing all imperfect metals in the world into gold.

In the second place, he has it in his power to make stones and diamonds far more precious than any that are naturally procured.

In the third place, he has an Universal Medicine, with which he can cure every conceivable disease, and, indeed, as to the quantity of his Medicine, he might heal all sick people in the world.

elixirmixer
08-14-2017, 12:54 AM
In the 21st century there are many different forms of Alchemy but we need to separate them from one another. The biggest damage was done by Carl Gustav Jung and his psychological analysis of alchemy. After spending 8 years on this forum i can't believe that we are not past this point.

Yes well there are certainly more cohesive community groups out there... I would have worked with others to progress our art, and have offered many times. Alas..

JDP
08-14-2017, 12:59 AM
Those "things" are often about things that YOU cannot have any experience of yourself, unless you learn, or do, those things. And why does anyone need to prove anything? You never seem to understand this simple notion, that the spiritual path can only be understood and proven by the spiritual pilgrim himself (or herself). Anyone who is not on such a path cannot understand, nor can they be proven anything.

But some of these strange claims CAN be put to the test. For example, telekinesis. Skeptics have been challenging these types of claims for a very long time, and the claimants have proved NONE.


I can only speak for myself, and in my own case NOTHING of what you have said has proved to me that I am wrong.


Is that so? Need I remind you of precipices & gravity? LOL! When are you finally going to decide to jump down one of them so that we can easily observe the very obvious and predictable outcome of such an action? Oh, that's right, you naturally (and luckily for your health/life's sake) came up with all manner of excuses NOT to do so, because you know very well what will happen, based on your very own empirical experience of what happens to anything that free-falls.


Nope, this is the wrong tactic. If you are so in tune with the scientific method, then why don't you experiment and try another approach... evaluate and then conclude which worked best. That is usually how I go about doing things.

"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes." ― Winston S. Churchill


:p

The before mentioned tactic is well applied to people who are very stubborn and refuse to listen to reason unless it is more forcefully presented to them. Obviously it is not necessary for more reasonable people.

JDP
08-14-2017, 01:17 AM
In the 21st century there are many different forms of Alchemy but we need to separate them from one another. The biggest damage was done by Carl Gustav Jung and his psychological analysis of alchemy. After spending 8 years on this forum i can't believe that we are not past this point.

Schmuldvich has provided several definitions of what alchemy was, and is and always will be, straight from some old texts, so no need to go there again. It is very easy to see what has traditionally been meant by "alchemy" by most people in the past. What I don't understand, though, is that you seem to easily recognize that Jung's reinterpretation of alchemy was mistaken, yet you still believe that there are "many different forms of alchemy". If alchemy is real, then there can only be one, just like math, or geometry, or physics, or medicine, etc. You might talk about some "branches" of alchemy, for example (like a medicinal branch, which explores the effects of the Stone on the health of people, animals & plants, and a transmutational branch, which explores the effects of the Stone on metals), but those are just sub-divisions of the same topic, just like you can talk about several branches of medicine or physics. You cannot appropriate the name "alchemy" to virtually anything you imagine the subject should be. That would have a passing if alchemy was baloney and never had a traditional meaning. Then anyone could appropriate the word to mean whatever one wanted it to mean. But such is not the case. There is a mass of centuries of tradition behind the name "alchemy", and it almost invariably has to do with transmutational and medicinal applications of the Stone.

black
08-14-2017, 01:28 AM
Schmuldvich has provided several definitions of what alchemy was, and is and always will be, straight from some old texts, so no need to go there again. It is very easy to see what has traditionally been meant by "alchemy" by most people in the past. What I don't understand, though, is that you seem to easily recognize that Jung's reinterpretation of alchemy was mistaken, yet you still believe that there are "many different forms of alchemy". If alchemy is real, then there can only be one, just like math, or geometry, or physics, or medicine, etc. You might talk about some "branches" of alchemy, for example (like a medicinal branch, which explores the effects of the Stone on the health of people, animals & plants, and a transmutational branch, which explores the effects of the Stone on metals), but those are just sub-divisions of the same topic, just like you can talk about several branches of medicine or physics. You cannot appropriate the name "alchemy" to virtually anything you imagine the subject should be. That would have a passing if alchemy was baloney and never had a traditional meaning. Then anyone could appropriate the word to mean whatever one wanted it to mean. But such is not the case. There is a mass of centuries of tradition behind the name "alchemy", and it almost invariably has to do with transmutational and medicinal applications of the Stone.

Almost there JDP....you missed the most important part.

Transmutation, medicinal and SPIRITUAL.

Schmuldvich
08-14-2017, 01:57 AM
...You missed the most important part.

Transmutation, medicinal and SPIRITUAL.
Oh god, spare us!!!

...I just provided numerous quotes centuries old from all over the world that explains exactly what Alchemy is!

Just like anything, something can be twisted to fit a personal definition and fit into a certain mold, but "that which is certain and True" remains, forever and ever, regardless of the ideology of the interpreter...

For example, I can easily come up with spiritual cooking (those in the know, let's not go there...), saying how the pre-cooked food represents our body, and when it is cooked it goes through an inner transformation, and when it is finally "finished" it embodies its final form, etc. etc. etc. You, me, and every other Joe Blow can write a book on how cooking can be alikened to one's spiritual journey or inner transformation...just like Alchemy! ...Just like anything!

Spiritual Alchemy does not exist just like Spiritual Gardening, Spiritual Rockclimbing, and Spiritual Cooking do not exist (again, let's not go there...).

FACT. Alchemy is an Art that once fully understood and put into practice allows an individual to physically manufacture the Philosopher's Stone. The only goal of Alchemy is to make the Philosopher's Stone. PERIOD. The Philosopher's Stone is "able to preserve our body from corruption, to retard old age, retain florid youth in full vigour, and, if possible, to perpetuate it, at least to preserve it from death and destruction" and also has the power "to make stones and diamonds far more precious than any that are naturally procured". THIS IS WHAT ALCHEMY IS.

Anyone can bastardize anything into how they see fit or want it to be, but the fact remains that the goal of Alchemy is to produce the Philosopher's Stone which when used appropriately transmutes physical metals to higher perfection and when used medicinally restores an individual to more perfect health.

black
08-14-2017, 02:52 AM
Oh god, spare us!!!

...I just provided numerous quotes centuries old from all over the world that explains exactly what Alchemy is!

Just like anything, something can be twisted to fit a personal definition and fit into a certain mold, but "that which is certain and True" remains, forever and ever, regardless of the ideology of the interpreter...

For example, I can easily come up with spiritual cooking (those in the know, let's not go there...), saying how the pre-cooked food represents our body, and when it is cooked it goes through an inner transformation, and when it is finally "finished" it embodies its final form, etc. etc. etc. You, me, and every other Joe Blow can write a book on how cooking can be alikened to one's spiritual journey or inner transformation...just like Alchemy! ...Just like anything!

Spiritual Alchemy does not exist just like Spiritual Gardening, Spiritual Rockclimbing, and Spiritual Cooking do not exist (again, let's not go there...).

FACT. Alchemy is an Art that once fully understood and put into practice allows an individual to physically manufacture the Philosopher's Stone. The only goal of Alchemy is to make the Philosopher's Stone. PERIOD. The Philosopher's Stone is "able to preserve our body from corruption, to retard old age, retain florid youth in full vigour, and, if possible, to perpetuate it, at least to preserve it from death and destruction" and also has the power "to make stones and diamonds far more precious than any that are naturally procured". THIS IS WHAT ALCHEMY IS.

Anyone can bastardize anything into how they see fit or want it to be, but the fact remains that the goal of Alchemy is to produce the Philosopher's Stone which when used appropriately transmutes physical metals to higher perfection and when used medicinally restores an individual to more perfect health.

I'm referring to how the philosophers stone effects the person on
a spiritual / soul level after taking it.

Do you believe taking the philosophers stone expands our awareness, giving us a greater insight and soul growth???

Schmuldvich
08-14-2017, 02:54 AM
I'm referring to how the philosophers stone effects the person on a spiritual / soul level after taking it.
Oh.



Do you believe taking the philosophers stone expands our awareness, giving us a greater insight and soul growth???
Absolutely!

elixirmixer
08-14-2017, 03:12 AM
Actually, there are meditative processes that produce SS within the brain, ferment it, ect.. And you can literally turn your pineal gland into The Stone. So I would t say there's no such thing as spiritual alchemy. Spiritual is just the word we use when we can't explain things EMPIRICALLY and yet, we know they are there all the same.

black
08-14-2017, 03:34 AM
Oh.



Absolutely!
OH....Thank God Mr. Schmuldvich

You almost rocked me to the core, thinking that after all these many long years it was
just for Wealth and Health.

I was about to cut the power to the lab and go sailing for my remaining time.

Hallelujah brother, there i hope yet !!!!

Schmuldvich
08-14-2017, 04:24 AM
OH....Thank God Mr. Schmuldvich

You almost rocked me to the core, thinking that after all these many long years it was just for Wealth and Health.

I was about to cut the power to the lab and go sailing for my remaining time. Hallelujah brother, there is hope yet !!!!

Wealth, Health, and Stealth baby!!! :p



Actually, there are meditative processes that produce SS within the brain, ferment it, ect.. And you can literally turn your pineal gland into The Stone. So I would t say there's no such thing as spiritual alchemy. Spiritual is just the word we use when we can't explain things EMPIRICALLY and yet, we know they are there all the same.
Where do you come up with this stuff!?

SS = Secret Solvent, a.k.a. our Universal Solvent, a.k.a. our Alkahest

No! No one can meditate and produce our Universal Solvent in their brain. No one. This is not humanly possible; I am not sure how you even came up with this idea that one can meditate and spontaneously produce our Secret Solvent! :confused:

Seriously, how you manifest such magnificently erroneous claims is beyond me!


Our Universal Solvent "dissolves" metals and reduces them to their prima materia.









"The Dwellings Of The Philosophers" by Fulcanelli, 1929

For the sulphur and mercury of metals, when extracted and isolated under the disintegrating energy of our first agent, or secret solvent, on their own by simple contact are reduced to the form of a viscous oil --a fatty and coagulable smoothness which the ancients called metallic humid radical.





"The Secret Of The Immortal Liquor Called Alkahest" by Paracelsus, 1683

Q. What is the Alkahest?

A. It is a Catholick and Universal Menstruum, and, in a Word, may be called (Ignis-Aqua) a Fiery-Water, an uncompounded and immortal ens, which is penetrative, resolving all things unto their first Liquid Matter, nor can anything resist its Power, for it acts without any reaction from the Patient: nor doth it suffer from anything but its Equal by which it is brought into Subjection; but after it hath dissolved all other things it remains entire in its former Nature, and is of the same Virtue after a thousand Operations as at the first.

Q. Of what Substance is it?

A. It is a noble circulated Salt, prepared with wonderful Art till it Answers the Desires of an Ingenious Artist, yet is it not any Corporal Salt made Liquid by a bare Solution, but is a saline Spirit which Heat cannot Coagulate by Evaporation of the moisture but is of a Spiritual uniform Substance, volatile with a gentle heat, leaving nothing behind it, yet is not this Spirit either Acid or Alkali but Salt.





"The Art Of Distillation" by John French, 1651

Now we must consider that there are degrees in this art, for there is the accomplishment of the elixir, itself, and there is the discovery of many excellent essences, magisteries, and spirits, etc., which abundantly recompence the discoverers thereof with profit, health, and delight. Is not Paracelsus, his Ludus that dissolves the stone and all tartarous matter in the body into a liquor, worth finding out? Is not his Tinea Scatura a most noble medicine, that extinguishes all preternatural heat in the body in a moment? Is not his alkahest a famous dissolvement that can in an instant dissolve all things into their first principles, and withall is a specificum against all distempers of the liver?

I shall here only add the assertion of Helmont, saying that with his alkahest all stones and, indeed, all things may be turned into water. If so, then you know what the maxim is, viz., all things may be resolved into that from whence they had their beginning.





"Six Keys Of Eudoxus"

You may observe the merit of this precious liquor, to which the philosophers have given more than a thousand different names, which is in sum the great Alcahest, which radically dissolves the metals -- a true permanent water which, after having radically dissolved them, is inseparably united to them, increasing their weight and tincture.

elixirmixer
08-14-2017, 04:59 AM
I sense that it wont be many years until the Spiritus Mundi thing has come completely into public understanding and scrutiny. I sure wont be the one to do it, but when its too late, then ill enjoy the changing waters of open convergence about the subject, however, right now, to discuss how it manifests in the brain is to discuss how it is manifested, period. And I'm not up for that discussion right now.

However, all of my bold claims are made, not from memorising ancient scripture, it is from meditating on the hermetic principals and OBSERVING, creating hypothesis and then testing those within the lab. There is evidence for SS in the brain, after-all, they did say that it is EVERYWHERE didn't they :)

I find it very strange that we have this 'definition of Alchemy' argument almost every week, however, when The Mixer drops a spagyrical arcanum bombshell, its like, yeah-whatever, EM talking shit again.

These endless discussions of re-defining alchemy is fruitless, I think that most of us would all agree now that ALCHEMY is defined around the stone but that "alchemy" has a broader meaning which includes but is not limited to spagyrics, certain mental practises and many other images of the psyche that can arise in a persons mind when they hear the word "Alchemy" for some people, alchemy is just a crafting skill used to boost battle potential for your World Of WarCraft Avatar.

DOES THIS SILLY ARGUMENT NEED TO INHERENTLY SUPPRESS ALL OTHER GOOD THINGS THAT COULD MANIFEST ON THIS FORUM?

While your having the same argument you were in 2014, other developments are taking place and you guys are all missing the boat :p:cool:

Peace.

alfr
08-14-2017, 06:02 AM
hi every body
SS SOVENT SECRET SVP SPIRITUS PHILOSOPHICAL WINES
I repeat on SS and SVP
As I have already mentioned in the other post (with link of all text ) the key of the SS And SVP is expressed and clarified date in the texts of the weindelfeld and in particular its prodromus and parisian summeta violet lucidarius kunckel and plot epistle count spiritus wines sine acid etc etc etc
Which I have already indicated in posts
Therefore, being clear and explicit on how to do SS and svp there are and will clearly clarify given in those texts because we do not begin to go to the concrete and all together in their respective differences (nb as always say The differences if expressed polite Must enrich each other in comparison and never divide)

So now let's go in the CONCRETE ( as always i like to do )
So now I PROPOSE
now seeing how it is found that there are extremely generous ancient alchemical mss and texts so :
I PROPOSE begin to DEEP ANALYZE them mss and texts and here ALL TOGETHER here start TO REASON WELL on it and on it DEEP STUDY and all together EXPERIMENT it and this the ancient alchemical knowledges methodologies on SS and SVP Proposed give by this generous ancient alchimist in their important operating and Extremely generous and very explicit alchemical traditionl mss and texts

My best regard

Axismundi000
08-14-2017, 08:13 AM
Thank you for sourcing these references alfr. These Pdf"s are nice to add to my collection an enjoyable read.

Awani
08-14-2017, 08:59 AM
I have not looked that much at Jungian Alchemy at all, but reading the remarks by most of you all concerning what the purpose of alchemy is, I must conclude that it sounds not only futile and stupid... but also utterly boring.

I'm out.*

:p

* meaning that I do not want anything to do with what people call "real alchemy"

Axismundi000
08-14-2017, 09:09 AM
Jung's views on Alchemy are worth reading in the context of Jungian psychology not Lab Alchemy. The above outlines of Jung's approach are analogous to a car up on bricks with no wheels, engine, steering wheel and half the chassis missing; that is pretty much useless. The problem with Jung's material is that through no fault of his own his massive work has been subjected to reductionism and has been oversimplified by diverse wacky new agers and also sometimes con-artists. The reason I suggest to perhaps avoid reading Jung is not because his stuff is boring, rather that the material is vast and a major undertaking to fully grasp and benefit from.

JDP
08-14-2017, 09:25 AM
Jung's views on Alchemy are worth reading in the context of Jungian psychology not Lab Alchemy. The above outlines of Jung's approach are analogous to a car up on bricks with no wheels, engine, steering wheel and half the chassis missing; that is pretty much useless. The problem with Jung's material is that through no fault of his own his massive work has been subjected to reductionism and has been oversimplified by diverse wacky new agers and also sometimes con-artists. The reason I suggest to perhaps avoid reading Jung is not because his stuff is boring, rather that the material is vast and a major undertaking to fully grasp and benefit from.

Jung's claims regarding alchemy are rather silly and untenable. He has been very appropriately critiqued and debunked by actual historians of science, like William R. Newman and Lawrence M. Principe.

True Initiate
08-14-2017, 09:27 AM
What I don't understand, though, is that you seem to easily recognize that Jung's reinterpretation of alchemy was mistaken yet you still believe that there are "many different forms of alchemy". If alchemy is real, then there can only be one, just like math, or geometry, or physics, or medicine, etc.

Yes, there are many forms of Alchemy and most of them are false interpretations of old texts but how can somebody tell the difference between the right and wrong paths? The only way to tell is physical transmutation of an element!
The old ones have used philosophers stone for that purpose but in the 21st century there are other ways to transmute elements without philosophers stone. There is a certain Law of Nature that governs mechanics of transmutation of all the elements (not just Gold) and if you understand this secret mechanic behind it you can transmute elements with a candle.

Solomon Levi references one secret document that very few have ever heard of. This Path is taught to the Initiates of Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm.
http://depositfiles.com/files/ibthotrss

JDP
08-14-2017, 09:36 AM
Almost there JDP....you missed the most important part.

Transmutation, medicinal and SPIRITUAL.

No, I did not miss it, but I did not take it into account for two very good reasons:

1- Almost no ancient, medieval or early modern alchemist mentions anything regarding any "spiritual transmutation" (even such a prominent occultist as A.E. Waite quickly realized this. Read his very interesting survey of the large body of alchemical literature he was well acquainted with in his "The Secret Tradition in Alchemy"; Waite could only find a handful of authors that could conceivably be labelled "spiritual alchemists", and all of them are relatively modern.)

2- For anyone to even consider that there actually is a "spiritual transmutation" you must first prove that such a thing as a "spirit" or "soul" actually exists in the first place. Good luck with that!

Axismundi000
08-14-2017, 09:41 AM
I have absolutely no interest in debating how unscientific Jung's work is, personally I like it but it is a huge amount of reading and not related to practical Lab Alchemy. For those who understand the abbreviation NFI, that is how I feel about arguing about this, you all who wish otherwise go enjoy yourselves in this pursuit.

Awani
08-14-2017, 09:56 AM
For anyone to even consider that there actually is a "spiritual transmutation" you must first prove that such a thing as a "spirit" or "soul" actually exists in the first place. Good luck with that!

Ha ha ha ha. I can't wait for you to die.

Don't worry, cunts go to heaven too. ;)

Btw good luck with proving what you claim, show me the gold. Yes, good luck with that... my advice to you is, if it is riches you want, to get a job. Quicker and less time wasting. I would give that advice to all gold hunting alchemists. Frankly, that kind of thinking is disgusting to me... and I do hope those alchemists find a way to make gold and choke on it. LOL.

It's all a fucking joke. And I am amazed that no one seems to grasp this concept.

You honestly trying to find wealth and health in old documents?

Ha ha ha. No wonder the world is screwed up...

:p

JDP
08-14-2017, 10:06 AM
Yes, there are many forms of Alchemy and most of them are false interpretations of old texts but how can somebody tell the difference between the right and wrong paths? The only way to tell is physical transmutation of an element!
The old ones have used philosophers stone for that purpose but in the 21st century there are other ways to transmute elements without philosophers stone. There is a certain Law of Nature that governs mechanics of transmutation of all the elements (not just Gold) and if you understand this secret mechanic behind it you can transmute elements with a candle.

I wouldn't go as far as "with a candle" but... the 17th-18th century "chymists" also knew the reality of transmutation, through their own methods, different than those of the alchemists and their secret solvent and the Stone made with it, and also different than those of physicists and their "atom smashers". In fact, anyone seeking proof of transmutation should rather investigate the "chymical" literature of those centuries, since it is somewhat easier to figure out than alchemy and its more difficult to investigate literature. You will find the proof that you seek there, not in alchemical texts proper (the alchemists were very little interested in offering "proofs" of transmutation, which is hardly surprising when you take into account that most of them did NOT even believe it was possible to achieve transmutations without the Stone.) I did. So can anyone who is willing to devote a lot of his time and money to this objective.

But word of warning: get ready to have to sift through PILES OF NONSENSE AND LIES, for many of these "chymists" also maliciously flooded the literature with all manner of false processes and ridiculous claims, in an effort to make it as difficult as possible for those they considered "unworthy" to get at the truth of the matter (Glauber and Becher are two such "chymists"; their books are inundated with all manner of false transmutation processes and claims, while every now and then they also drop some real ones in the middle of this chaos of lies.) Some other "chymists", however, were more sincere and kind and only wrote the NAKED TRUTH, in plain words that any person of even moderate intelligence and experience with lab operations can follow and replicate.

JDP
08-14-2017, 10:22 AM
Ha ha ha ha. I can't wait for you to die.

Don't worry, cunts go to heaven too. ;)

Btw good luck with proving what you claim, show me the gold. Yes, good luck with that... my advice to you is, if it is riches you want, to get a job. Quicker and less time wasting. I would give that advice to all gold hunting alchemists. Frankly, that kind of thinking is disgusting to me... and I do hope those alchemists find a way to make gold and choke on it. LOL.

It's all a fucking joke. And I am amazed that no one seems to grasp this concept.

You honestly trying to find wealth and health in old documents?

Ha ha ha. No wonder the world is screwed up...

:p

Remember the movie Conan the Barbarian? There is a great line there that you should strive to understand and apply to your daily life:

**Setting** Akiro, the Wizard, is telling how Conan, while seeking Thulsa Doom's fortress, stumbles upon a bunch of hippie-like followers of Doom:

"The children of Doom. Doom's children. They told my lord the way to the Mountain of Power. They told him to throw down his sword and return to the earth. Hah! Time enough for the earth in the grave."

In other words: worry about such uncertain things when you are actually dead and stop obsessing about them while you are alive, since they are things that no one knows anything certain about. But while you are very much alive and kicking, worry about REAL & PROVEN things that actually have an effect on your life and future. In even more layman's terms: cut the bullshit and get back to reality!

Awani
08-14-2017, 10:27 AM
It is so clear that you do not comprehend anything of a spiritual nature, because it has nothing to do with worry about uncertain things. And all to do with reality.

:p

JDP
08-14-2017, 10:29 AM
It is so clear that you do not comprehend anything of a spiritual nature, because it has nothing to do with worry about uncertain things. And all to do with reality.

:p

And the proof that this "spiritual nature" exists in the first place is...??? You must have a very funny definition of "reality".

Awani
08-14-2017, 10:39 AM
...you know what... the proof is a secret to the uninitiated. Yes, I understand now... finally... why secret orders are necessary. Thank you.

:p

Axismundi000
08-14-2017, 11:28 AM
The compulsive behaviour of addressing Alchemy from the perspective of A.J. Ayer and proselytising the glories of empiricism!


https://youtu.be/cHI2hzL-pcQ

True Initiate
08-14-2017, 11:36 AM
I wouldn't go as far as "with a candle" but...

I will go even further. How about physical transmutation acomplished by singing?

You see Lab-Oratorium means work and sing. Many mistakenly believe that it means work and pray but no, it means work and sing. The only requirement is that you use the right vessel which must transform vibrations of your voice into our secret fire. To most people this sounds like gobbledygook but it is simple truth.

Want proof? Think of Star of Antimony when you warch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH-LSXE5LGA&spfreload=10

Andro
08-14-2017, 11:55 AM
If there's one repeatedly PROVABLE fact, it's that we/people will somehow always find ways to act like vengeful, judgemental & intolerant assholes towards each other.

We are the champions of Finding Fault with pretty much everything.

Finding Fault is EASY.

Listening Without Prejudice is HARD.

Trolls, thieves, liars and hypocrites rule in this world.

Being honorable and ethical is apparently a lost art in most social circles.

The Power of Hermetic Gnosis (of which Alchemy is the physical/tangible aspect) is occult/hidden from the vicissitudes of this hollow world and its ephemeral forms.

The silhouettes of the Adepts are seamlessly blending in the multitude, like tears in rain.
____________________

PS: Yeah, it's that time of the year... Mercury is Retrograde again :)

Awani
08-14-2017, 12:03 PM
LOL. Yes well said.

I want to start a movement called alt-wrong.

:p

True Initiate
08-14-2017, 12:38 PM
Remembering Fulcanelli reporting how a few alchemist had said the black matter had been in their labs all along - at the time i imagined charcoal.

I am still thinking it is charcoal, graphite, plumbago and similar things. I am gonna use this opportunity to insert this text from Walter Russell:
http://s29.postimg.org/e7wree647/image.jpg

True Initiate
08-14-2017, 12:56 PM
I guarantee everyone that from Carbon you can make a very valuable white stone.

http://s3.postimg.org/mdt2owmab/diamond.jpg

Salazius
08-14-2017, 01:16 PM
My 2 cts.

Here are examples of my transmutations :

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CjGxnjdFSoU/WQsDZMFKCnI/AAAAAAAAUoc/SFz7lfwrpB0YFwcyldcnFGyECzte_MLkwCK4B/s1600/1%2Bnascent%2Bgold.JPG

PHOTO 1
TITLE: Nascent gold
AUTHOR: Salazius Hermès D'Artigné

TEXT:
During a process of High Spagery (archemical) using mercury HG, I had the surprise to witness the vegetation of gold in a proper matrix, all the process happened at room temperature, it was a wonder to witness because I could see all the changes of colours of the metal, at first it was silvery mat, then taking a peacok colour, and pinkish hue, then this shiny golden colour.
One can really meditate on the formation of the metals, and transmutations after that.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7HSO3F3048Q/WTE-G4t_eMI/AAAAAAAAUsM/jW_A8Te9LGA9a-xpWGAGdzI35QGm4-FJwCK4B/s1600/10%2Bgold%2Bopening.JPG

AUTHOR: Salazius Hermès D'Artigné

This is an atomic destruction, releasing the Priciples of the Gold. Without using acids or aquae regia, this is "un-transmutating" atoms so to speak.

At Room temperature.

True Initiate
08-14-2017, 01:43 PM
Physical Transmutation of elements is real only the causes of transmutation are kept secret.

Schmuldvich
08-14-2017, 02:01 PM
Here are examples of my transmutations:

http://i.imgur.com/acBLJ1o.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uA3zC8y.jpg

So...uh....what exactly did you transmute with your "transmutation"?

You put gold leaf into a mixture, and this mixture that you made dissolved the gold leaf. Congratulations you are $3.99 poorer!

What happened after this?

Schmuldvich
08-14-2017, 02:41 PM
I am still thinking it is charcoal, graphite, plumbago and similar things. I am gonna use this opportunity to insert this text from Walter Russell:
http://s29.postimg.org/e7wree647/image.jpg

John Ernst Worrell Keely is another mentor worth studying as well! Walter Russell gives us a lot to think about!


http://i.imgur.com/yDQOMOI.gif





Wealth, Health, and Stealth baby!!! :p


Reading the remarks by most of you all concerning what the purpose of alchemy is, I must conclude that it sounds not only futile and stupid... but also utterly boring.

I do not want anything to do with what people call "real alchemy".

Alchemy has always been, and will always be, about manufacturing the Philosopher's Stone. The Philosopher's Stone is the epitome of Alchemy realized. There are a few preliminary gates that must be crossed first, as has been presented throughout the ages, such as producing our Universal Solvent (Alkahest), but in the end [and beginning!] everything comes down to One thing...the Philosopher's Stone.

It is not really all about "Wealth, Health, and Stealth baby!", as much as it is about self-independence and comprehending the mysteries of this Universe.

The Philosopher's Stone is moreso an 'end to a means' than it is a 'means to an end', meaning that it is all about what the Philosopher's Stone grants for an individual. The Philosopher's Stone offers an human being freedom, independence from the powers that be, or simply put...Peace.

And before you go on thinking that one can become massively wealthy with metals & gems, think about it rationally for a second. Nowadays everything is recorded. An individual cannot get away with selling thousands of dollars worth of precious metals easily. The Government wants its cut. Taxes are real and "investigations" are so too real. Knowledge is power. It's not all about money (Wealth). It is all about self-sustainability (Health) and self-independence (Stealth).

Warmheart
08-14-2017, 04:45 PM
Quartz is definitely not THE subject, however it sems that it is the best material for the physical vessel for mineral, vegetable or animal materia. Common glass doesn't let all the rays of the Sun to pierce through it, while quartz glass can.

There is also some mystery about quartz glass - the way to make a liquid and soft glass without any expensive laboratory equipment. Some reputable people wrote about it, and they said that this mystery is directly connected with Alcahest, so once you know how to make liquid/soft quartz glass you are almost at the knowledge of Alcahest.

Salazius
08-14-2017, 05:35 PM
So...uh....what exactly did you transmute with your "transmutation"?

You put gold leaf into a mixture, and this mixture that you made dissolved the gold leaf. Congratulations you are $3.99 poorer!

What happened after this?

Well, read again, it's all plainly explained => Hg into gold.

And for the second experiment, gold made non metallic.

I'm not poorer.

I'm richer of wisdom and of a great gold tincture.
I'm richer of the metallic knowledge of the principles of transmutations.
I'm richer of the experiments and capacity to proove that my ideas were right at first, and it worked out well.
I'm richer of the inner experiences provided by the Gold Tincture on my bodies. (And I can use it also for a lot of purposes)
I'm richer of the fact that now my spirit was "worked out" with these two types of transmutations : one for evolution, and one for retrogradation.

Only you, sees poverty here.

Illen A. Cluf
08-14-2017, 05:50 PM
Thanks for posting the amazing photos, Salazius! It's a real treasure to see them. Whatever process you used, it looks like one could learn a lot from the observations.

Salazius
08-14-2017, 05:55 PM
Thanks for posting the amazing photos, Salazius! It's a real treasure to see them.

Thank you :)

I know photos prove nothing. You can all just rely on my words.

I don't care if people don't believe in transmutations possibilities.

But, the Magnum Opus is entirely based on the effect of several transmutations. From the begining to the end.

A transmutation to dissolve, and a transmutation to recompose. And then a transmutation to share the power.

Dendritic Xylem
08-14-2017, 05:59 PM
My 2 cts.

Thanks for sharing Salazius.
I had a metallic film form on the surface of a solution of mixed metal salts among other things. The film started as silvery, then became rainbow colored (with lots of purple), then golden.
I wiped my finger along the surface of the solution and collected a material which looks just like gold.
Strangely, this gold-like material will instantly dissolve in hcl without on oxidizer. It also fails the stannous chloride test.
I have been unable to find any scientific reference to a golden metallic material which can be precipitated on the surface of a solution and dissolves instantly in weak hcl. So not sure what it is.
It also disintegrates into a brown powder (looks similar to precipitated gold) when rubbed between the fingers. You can see the brown powder in the cupel pic.

https://s32.postimg.org/806hps3s5/foto_no_exif_2.jpg

https://s31.postimg.org/eir41or23/foto_no_exif_3.jpg

https://s31.postimg.org/luen7req3/foto_no_exif_4.jpg

Illen A. Cluf
08-14-2017, 06:20 PM
Thank you :)

I know photos prove nothing. You can all just rely on my words.

I don't care if people don't believe in transmutations possibilities.

But, the Magnum Opus is entirely based on the effect of several transmutations. From the begining to the end.

A transmutation to dissolve, and a transmutation to recompose. And then a transmutation to share the power.

You have always been level-headed and have provided valuable and reliable information, so there's no reason not to trust your words.

My study also shows that there should be several transmutations, the first being the dissolution of the Magnesia by the water. Is your first picture showing the last transmutation?

True Initiate
08-14-2017, 06:49 PM
Quartz is definitely not THE subject, however it sems that it is the best material for the physical vessel for mineral, vegetable or animal materia. Common glass doesn't let all the rays of the Sun to pierce through it, while quartz glass can.


Quartz is not the subject but it is a vessel also called philosophers egg

JDP
08-14-2017, 07:58 PM
I will go even further. How about physical transmutation acomplished by singing?

You see Lab-Oratorium means work and sing. Many mistakenly believe that it means work and pray but no, it means work and sing. The only requirement is that you use the right vessel which must transform vibrations of your voice into our secret fire. To most people this sounds like gobbledygook but it is simple truth.

Where is the evidence for this outlandish claim?

PS: the video only shows different patterns produced obviously by vibrations. There is nothing "mysterious" or "supernatural" about it.

http://americanhistory.si.edu/science/chladni.htm

JDP
08-14-2017, 08:12 PM
Thanks for sharing Salazius.
I had a metallic film form on the surface of a solution of mixed metal salts among other things. The film started as silvery, then became rainbow colored (with lots of purple), then golden.
I wiped my finger along the surface of the solution and collected a material which looks just like gold.
Strangely, this gold-like material will instantly dissolve in hcl without on oxidizer. It also fails the stannous chloride test.
I have been unable to find any scientific reference to a golden metallic material which can be precipitated on the surface of a solution and dissolves instantly in weak hcl. So not sure what it is.
It also disintegrates into a brown powder (looks similar to precipitated gold) when rubbed between the fingers. You can see the brown powder in the cupel pic.

https://s32.postimg.org/806hps3s5/foto_no_exif_2.jpg

https://s31.postimg.org/eir41or23/foto_no_exif_3.jpg

https://s31.postimg.org/luen7req3/foto_no_exif_4.jpg

Difficult to tell without knowing what are the "mixed metal salts" being manipulated. But the described properties of the substance obviously show that it is not gold, or at least not yet...

PS: you might want to take a cue from some of the old "chymists" (like Von Justi), and submit the strange almost gold-like substance to repeated "cementations" with the appropriate salts and/or mineral/metallic matters to finish "maturing" it into gold, which will resist all assays.

solomon levi
08-14-2017, 08:24 PM
wow. so anyways. you can see all the colors in opal.
Ops is Saturn's wife, aka Rhea/"flowing"... her festival was called Opalia.
Carbon is added to make TEOS. i already said that.
There's nothing to argue about.
And Andro, you misinterpret me.
Please don't embellish or interpret/translate me to others.
I said i'm here to talk to anyone who wants to listen.
This means i don't care to talk with people who don't want to listen. That's just my version of sanity.
Why would i talk with someone who doesn't want to listen to me?
That has nothing to do with needing an audience and everything to do with being efficient with my time.
Don't project your stuff onto me.

alfr
08-14-2017, 08:34 PM
hi solomon
very interesting silice etc solomon can explain more deep your idee
(as say before in alchemy are many way with many metters in the all 3 kingdoms and not only and the thesauro thesaurorum rc toeltius rc and theextaxi secret of gualdi are all very clear about it
and one of this matter is also the silice ) and it is also in thesauro ,toeltius, and hyle coahyle etc and in these books there are some cap with instruction about oil of silice sovent phil by it and stone wiht it so very welcome at all your research

my best regard

solomon levi
08-14-2017, 08:38 PM
above all, this is supposed to be a forum. instead we have a bunch of people feeling threatened by ideas that aren't theirs and people who want to argue to determine a winner and all that bullshit. i'm just not that immature anymore, and yes, alchemy is the reason for that. I wouldn't recommend this place to anyone wanting to learn about lab alchemy, because it's a bunch of dogma instead of following nature.
I've stayed friends with Salazius and he is his usual wonderful self, but Andro, JDP... you certainly don't know how to make anyone feel welcome. You picked up right where we were three years ago.
anyone should be able to come here and talk about what they want concerning alchemy without people attacking them and making them feel unwelcome. a forum that doesn't do that isn't a forum.

solomon levi
08-14-2017, 09:04 PM
hi Alfr.
the Len Cram link should be enough for anyone who is familiar with alchemy.
how would you convert oil of sand/silica/flints to TEOS? how would an alchemist?
I don't even remember the name of the RAMS document that says oil of sand is not the mercury, but almost the mercury.
what should one do to it?
add alcohol? vinegar? calcium carbonate? potassium carbonate?
this is all i really want to say about it.
I'm not a recipe guy - i'm a clue-dropping pointer guy :)
If people don't see it, that's ok.
Alchemy is about asking the right questions, not having the right answers.
If people ask nature how she makes minerals, they're going to find quartz everywhere - anti-monos, "not alone".
If one determines their subject is quartz and you say quartz in place of antimony or cinnabar or mercury, it should become clear.
Quartz is frozen "water". Geodes are little earths.
that's about all that i feel needs pointing at :)
if you take the oak from the cinnabar path and combine it with quartz, you're going to get oil of sand.
but what you want is TEOS.
We already know several minerals will grow trees/coral in sodium silicate/water glass right before your eyes.
So what happens in TEOS? what would an alchemist do?

Schmuldvich
08-14-2017, 09:17 PM
I'm not a recipe guy - i'm a clue-dropping pointer guy :)

Alchemy is about asking the right questions, not having the right answers.
Where do your clues ultimately lead?

solomon levi
08-14-2017, 09:24 PM
seriously? maps don't lead anywhere. walking does.
if you don't see where they lead, then they're not for you
but i'm sure JDP would love to answer where my clues lead for you.

Awani
08-14-2017, 09:46 PM
maps don't lead anywhere. walking does.

Put that on a T-shirt.

:p

Schmuldvich
08-14-2017, 09:46 PM
Put that on a T-shirt.

:p

...solomon levi already likes to quote himself; probably wouldn't be too hard to get the ball rolling! :p




I'm not a recipe guy - i'm a clue-dropping pointer guy :)

Alchemy is about asking the right questions, not having the right answers.


Where do your clues ultimately lead?


above all, this is supposed to be a forum. instead we have a bunch of people feeling threatened by ideas that aren't theirs and people who want to argue to determine a winner and all that bullshit. i'm just not that immature anymore, and yes, alchemy is the reason for that. I wouldn't recommend this place to anyone wanting to learn about lab alchemy. anyone should be able to come here and talk about what they want concerning alchemy without people attacking them and making them feel unwelcome. a forum that doesn't do that isn't a forum.


seriously? maps don't lead anywhere. walking does.
if you don't see where they lead, then they're not for you


And Andro, you misinterpret me.
Please don't embellish or interpret/translate me to others.
I said i'm here to talk to anyone who wants to listen.
This means i don't care to talk with people who don't want to listen. That's just my version of sanity.
Why would i talk with someone who doesn't want to listen to me?
That has nothing to do with needing an audience and everything to do with being efficient with my time.
Don't project your stuff onto me.


what is the ignore list? I want my posts to not be visible by him (not like he can actually see what anyone else is saying anyway). does that happen on the ignore list?

I just dropped in to share and to talk with whoever wants to listen. Don't see any so i'll see you guys later.


wow. this place has changed. You can't give what you don't have

i'll stick to facebook.

If you're having personal issues in your life right now or going through something tough, I wish you the best!

It seems as if you are going through a lot or angry about something, and it most definitely does not sound like you have come here to talk to anybody who will listen. You should probably stick to Facebook.

I am here to listen and converse, solomon levi. I asked you an exceedingly simple question, where do your clues ultimately lead a Seeker?








"If you know how to listen to another person, then you know how to listen to God/Universe/MateriaPrima."
- solomon levi

solomon levi
08-14-2017, 11:35 PM
and you couldn't hear my answer. do you think it magically changes when you ask a second time? maybe three times is a charm?
you said you're here to listen. why didn't you hear me? why reject my answer?

elixirmixer
08-14-2017, 11:45 PM
Don't stress mate, no one listens to me either and it's only their loss.

Okay, Quartz, honestly, I've never worked on gems stones before, does anyone know where I can find the basic theory for mineral works?

(I'm still of the opinion that this will NEVER lead to the true stone, however, it might be a valuable place to use the stone once I have it)

Schmuldvich
08-15-2017, 12:14 AM
and you couldn't hear my answer. do you think it magically changes when you ask a second time? maybe three times is a charm?
you said you're here to listen. why didn't you hear me? why reject my answer?

I understood you clearly! Your answer was "maps don't lead anywhere. walking does." and then you suggested that AGAPDOTAJDP answer the question for me. I am asking you where the path that you leave clues to leads once a Seeker walks it.


Once you leave your clues, and a Seeker walks the path you have laid out, where does that path ultimately lead?

It's a very simple question that does not need a philosophical answer. We can play games if you would like, but a straightforward answer would be preferred.


Where do your clues lead an honest Seeker, solomon levi?

solomon levi
08-15-2017, 07:23 AM
It's not a simple question. It's a really strange question.
If someone lays down clues, you follow them or you don't.
To ask them where they go instead of following them is weird.
If you don't want to follow them, they go nowhere.
If you want to follow them, you tell me where they went.
If the clues don't mean anything to you, they go nowhere.
Why would i give clues if i wanted to tell you where they go?
Why would i say, "it's green and produces acorns" if i wanted to say "oak".
Where does growing real opals lead anyone? it depends on your vision.
A man growing real opals like the earth grows them leads ME to the understanding that he has mercury, sulphur and salt.
Obviously it doesn't lead everyone to that understanding.

True Initiate
08-15-2017, 05:10 PM
Where is the evidence for this outlandish claim?

PS: the video only shows different patterns produced obviously by vibrations. There is nothing "mysterious" or "supernatural" about it.

http://americanhistory.si.edu/science/chladni.htm

Ha ha ha

You can find evidence everywhere. In Fulcanelli where he speaks about the secret of transmutation by changing geometrical molecular structure of the element (he also talks about piezoelectricity), Canseliet talks about singing crucible at the last cooking.

https://www.labyrinthdesigners.org/alchemy-science-history/pierre-curie-point-and-the-alchemical-last-cooking/

Bacstrom creates star of antimony by banging the crucible with an iron rod which of course creates sound like a wine glass.

It is the same principle as this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKRj-T4l-e8&spfreload=10

I can go on forever...

True Initiate
08-15-2017, 05:19 PM
Okay, Quartz, honestly, I've never worked on gems stones before, does anyone know where I can find the basic theory for mineral works?

You can start here and ask yourself why gold always grows inside vein of quartz which contains iron?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-49Q_FYHck


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5-3z7wsO-Y&spfreload=10

Keep in mind however the physical qualities of quartz and iron not so much their chemical composition.

Illen A. Cluf
08-15-2017, 05:20 PM
Bacstrom creates star of antimony by banging the crucible with an iron rod which of course creates sound like a wine glass.



Isn't that just to loosen the regulus so that it's easier to remove from the crucible later?

True Initiate
08-15-2017, 05:25 PM
No, he explicitly stated this is the secret method on how to get a star. I am too lazy to dig the quote, it is buried in RAMs somewhere. Sound pressure in any form gives form to all matter.

JDP
08-15-2017, 07:32 PM
Ha ha ha

You can find evidence everywhere. In Fulcanelli where he speaks about the secret of transmutation by changing geometrical molecular structure of the element

Are you sure this actually came from one of the two Fulcanelli books? If I remember correctly, it comes from a claim made in a book by Bergier. It is not found in either of Fulcanelli's works, as far as I can remember.


(he also talks about piezoelectricity), Canseliet talks about singing crucible at the last cooking.

Yes, but, if I remember correctly, Canseliet was claiming that the sound comes from inside the crucible, as a result of the interaction between the substances undergoing "coction" in the "dry" way, it is not something external that the operator forces upon these substances.


Bacstrom creates star of antimony by banging the crucible with an iron rod which of course creates sound like a wine glass.

But that only alters the crystalline structure of the "regulus", it does not give it any extraordinary properties, it remains the same metallic antimony that it always was. Want proof that making the "star" on the "regulus" will not make any difference? Look no further than Starkey's laboratory notebooks. They record his many failures to make anything remotely resembling the Stone by manipulating the "regulus" of antimony, with or without the "star".

True Initiate
08-15-2017, 07:59 PM
Yes, but, if I remember correctly, Canseliet was claiming that the sound comes from inside the crucible, as a result of the interaction between the substances undergoing "coction" in the "dry" way, it is not something external that the operator forces upon these substances.

The sound which Canseliet has heard was coming from his philosophers egg in which the matter was sealed! The cause of that sound was the inner pressure built up inside the philosophers egg which led to electrical discharge and subsequently to ever higher pitch! The reason why Canseliet failed is because he couldn't reach the highest pitch through inner pressures by using external fires of the dry way. Philosophers egg made from quartz usually explodes to pieces before phi stone is born.

That's why the wet priestly way is performed only by singing including the so-called Cinnabar path. No KOH needed if you use piezoelectric crystal flask!



But that only alters the crystalline structure of the "regulus", it does not give it any extraordinary properties, it remains the same metallic anetimony that it always was. Want proof that making the "star" on the "regulus" will not make any difference? Look no further than Starkey's laboratory notebooks. They record his many failures to make anything remotely resembling the Stone by manipulating the "regulus" of antimony, with or without the "star".

By changing the crystal structure of any element you create so-called allotropes and yes they all have their own extraordinary properties as you say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allotropy

Antimony alone has four of them but i am not claiming that Antimony is the right matter. Carbon also has many allotropes so does Silicon and Sulphur... Starkey knew nothing about allotropism.

JDP
08-15-2017, 08:41 PM
The sound which Canseliet has heard was coming from his philosophers egg in which the matter was sealed! The cause of that sound was the inner pressure built up inside the philosophers egg which led to electrical discharge and subsequently to ever higher pitch! The reason why Canseliet failed is because he couldn't reach the highest pitch through inner pressures by using external fires of the dry way. Philosophers egg made from quartz usually explodes to pieces before phi stone is born.

The fire is the only "external" thing being applied to the substances, no need for strange "vibrations" of any kind.


That's why the wet priestly way is performed only by singing including the so-called Cinnabar path. No KOH needed if you use piezoelectric crystal flask!

Huh? Where are you getting such bizarre claims from? It must be from some modern Guru-like New Age source, since such concepts and claims were totally unknown to the old alchemists & "chymists".


By changing the crystal structure of any element you create so-called allotropes and yes they all have their own extraordinary properties as you say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allotropy

Antimony alone has four of them but i am not claiming that Antimony is the right matter. Carbon also has many allotropes so does Silicon and Sulphur...

Yes, and they all remain the exact same substance they were before! Only in a different crystalline arrangement. There is no real "radical" change here. Allotropic forms of silver are still silver and will go back to being just the ordinary silver it always was, for example.


Starkey knew nothing about allotropism.

Of course, because he lived in the 17th century, such concepts had still not developed yet. But he did work with antimony reduced in several manners. It made no difference in the end. The Stone was not produced, "star" or "no star" on the "regulus".

Schmuldvich
08-15-2017, 08:47 PM
Yes, and they all remain the exact same substance they were before! Only in a different crystalline arrangement. There is no real "radical" change here. Allotropic forms of silver are still silver and will go back to being just the ordinary silver it always was, for example.
YES!!

Just like our One Matter! So happy to see that you get it now!

From One comes Two comes a Third thing...from the One source--this is Alchemy!



http://i.imgur.com/9jd3LgX.jpg

JDP
08-15-2017, 08:56 PM
YES!!

Just like our One Matter! So happy to see that you get it now!

From One comes Two comes a Third thing...from the One source--this is Alchemy!



http://i.imgur.com/9jd3LgX.jpg

Yes, but only after you make it out of several matters first! So glad to see you get it now!

Awani
08-15-2017, 09:00 PM
I know you are, but what am I?

:p

True Initiate
08-15-2017, 10:24 PM
You still have a lot to learn JDP...

JDP
08-16-2017, 02:57 AM
You still have a lot to learn JDP...

**chuckles** When you have as much empirical experience and acquaintance with the old alchemical literature as I have you will realize that a lot of what you just told me, and apparently have accepted as "facts", are really uncorroborated claims/speculations of some New Age Gurus. For the moment being, let me leave you with this one very important reflection:

No secret solvent/water/mercury = NO PHILOSOPHERS' STONE

That's not any "new age" thingy, but what the old alchemists themselves imply over and over. I am sure you know that is a fact (Fulcanelli himself, the guy you referred to before, keeps repeating this over and over, for example.) Meditate upon it. Even more important: EXPERIMENT UPON IT.

elixirmixer
08-16-2017, 03:18 AM
Why Schmuldvich do you keep showing us this golden rock.

Where the fuck in any text does it talk about this rock you keep popping up, i just dont understand what your trying to imply with it is all... why do you think this is a good starting matter?

And, this is the reason i said, you are working with minerals, cause you keep talking about them and showing photos.

JDP
08-16-2017, 03:30 AM
Why Schmuldvich do you keep showing us this golden rock.

Where the fuck in any text does it talk about this rock you keep popping up, i just dont understand what your trying to imply with it is all... why do you think this is a good starting matter?

And, this is the reason i said, you are working with minerals, cause you keep talking about them and showing photos.

LOL! I almost spilled my soda on my keyboard when I read this. One of the funniest posts I have seen in a while.

PS: not poking fun at you, or Schmuldvich for that matter, it's just that it's funny how his (purposefully, I presume) "vague" or "ambiguous" posts, accompanied by totally unexplained pictures, like the sushi-roll looking "rock", have been provoking this kind of reaction.

Schmuldvich
08-16-2017, 03:49 AM
Why Schmuldvich do you keep showing us this golden rock.

Where the fuck in any text does it talk about this rock you keep popping up, i just dont understand what your trying to imply with it is all... why do you think this is a good starting matter?

And, this is the reason i said, you are working with minerals, cause you keep talking about them and showing photos.

Read my post(s) carefully from now on and things will make a little more sense. Like the direct questions I ask, I am very specific with words I choose when I post.

In my first post, I said that basanite "clearly depicts" our Starting Matter.


...Do you not see it?

In my second post I said, "Our Gold within the Black".


...Can you not recognize the hint here?

In my third post I explained what Alchemy is, "From One comes Two comes a Third thing...from the One source--this is Alchemy!"


...Will you not recognize this Truthful statement?



Basanite clearly depicts our First Matter. Could it really be this simple!?



http://i.imgur.com/Gu9orxT.jpg


Your description of colors above and what we see in the image of basanite gives us much to think about!

YES! That is what turns others off to Alchemy so easily. Most people are not ready for a multi-year/decade long puzzle, which funny enough is why Alchemy has such an appeal to me...



http://i.imgur.com/J6T2zmf.jpg
Our Gold within the Black

YES!!

Just like our One Matter!

From One comes Two comes a Third thing...from the One source--this is Alchemy!



http://i.imgur.com/9jd3LgX.jpg


I mean, AGAPDOTAJDP figured it out earlier...Our starting matter is S.U.S.H.I. (Super Unexpected Solicited Hyle, Impossible!)

Duh!

C'mon, elixirmixer, I am not going to spell it out for you (well, I just did!). READ READ READ!

The answers are all in the Texts that you refuse to READ!

elixirmixer
08-16-2017, 03:56 AM
The subject of My Art (since i dont think ANYONE intends to work with the matters that I do) consists of three things, which are born from the One thing, which re-combine into One thing only, One in three and three in One.

Each of my three starting materials, which began as one thing, do NOT exist in the world of our empirical scientists.

All of them!

They are not mineral, or animal, or vegetable (None of them)

One of these matters is Spiritus Mundi.

It is known at least theoretically, that SM will cultivate its own stuff anyway however, this is not the way I choose to work as it is too slow.

Therefore, I found other substances, that were related to spiritus mundi, and now I have THREE THINGS FROM THE ONE THAT WHEN COMBINED, PRODUCES ONE THING ONLY.

This is the benefit of learning and gaining understandings in HERMETIC PHILOSOPHY itself, rather than "Alchemy"

Your all probably older than me, and you haven't found the stone, NONE OF YOU. Not only do you guys read and read and (probably not pray) but keep reading, and, aswell as that, you live in 2017 with a generous soul called Awani that has allowed you ALL to COLLABORATE for fucking YEARS!

Is there a chance, that you guys could be wrong? That you've been hunting in all the wrong places, playing with all the wrong things, and even though there are some gifted scientists and alchemists who are transmuting, still, they are using low grade materials.

I suggest (and there wont be many more of these happening, I assure you, as I grow weary of the vanity of this forums contributors) that you guys put down your alchemy books, and read some Hermes. Without an understanding of how the earth was created in the first place (which really is NOTHING like they tell us at Uni) then you just ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE THE STONE! Full stop.

The materials you seek DO NO EXIST on the periodic table, at least not in the common forms that we are used to.

There is only ONE TRUE CORNER STONE. It holds within itself all kingdoms, the code for all species exists within its matrix, because it pre-dates them. The kingdoms are the effect of the causes of ONE THING.

We have all sorts of artists around here, people who perform low level transformations, as has just recently been shared by Salazius, must have gained an understanding of the hermetic principals, and with these principals, you will find that there are multiply combinations of materials that will cause transmutation, considering that the universe exists in a symbolic way, and by interpreting the correct hermetic understanding of evolution, one can use MANY different materials to perform transmutation, however, MOST of these will NOT be profitable, only profitable in the way Salazius made clear, the growth he had after confirming his hermetic theory to himself.

Elemental theory, creates epic medicines. When the proper elemental theory is used on metals, it will transmute metals. Obviously this does require a lot of understanding and skill, however, the nature of volatilised salts is to penetrate, and the nature of sulphur is to tincture, therefore, theoretically, transmutation can be done with a lot of different things.

Back to the subject... when looking for materials to create transmutation, what do we need? What is the "Hermetic recipe" for transmutation?

Earth turning into fire (penetrating, volatilised Salts) + Fire turning into Earth (Incombustible fixed Sulphur) = transmutation. That's the formula.

Not, quartz, plus some solvent, distil... blah blah that stuff is all retarded.

Start to understand the theory of what is required to tincture things, and those theories are found in deep hermetics NOT in all these alchemy books you guys have read that apparently have gotten you NOWHERE in fucking YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAARRRRRS.

Why look for a "starting matter" until you've got a PERFECT understanding of what your suppose to do with it? Just grab any male aspect thing, that has a female counterpart, then putrify and distill, you will have 'a mercury' and then work from there... the Archeus is the best place to start to learn Laboratory hermetics, rainwater beiing the male part, dew being the female counterpart.

Man plus woman equals what? (and i don't mean babies) Go find out! if you haven't got that far then your still years from any serious transmuting. Success is in the perfected theory, My cool lab is just for show and tell :cool:

The TRUE stone, isn't on your periodic table, hence why your all struggling, because the elements you should be looking for are the Hermetic Elements! You could say... "philosophical"?

Yes, very weary of this repetitive behaviour. And after all the philosophising and chatting and ideas, when the going gets going (that's me) the shit talkers just do more shit talking (that could be you!) Going to go and write my essay and then i think i'm about done with this place.

Schmuldvich
08-16-2017, 05:24 AM
Your enthusiasm is commendable!






The subject of My Art (since i dont think ANYONE intends to work with the matters that I do) consists of three things, which are born from the One thing, which re-combine into One thing only, One in three and three in One. Each of my three starting materials, which began as one thing, do NOT exist in the world of our empirical scientists. All of them! They are not mineral, or animal, or vegetable (None of them)
"They" is plural. "All" of "them" is plural. Our Matter is singular. It is One Thing.

Remember,



Verba secretorum Hermetis ---
Verum, sine mendacio, certum et verissimum :
Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius; et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius, ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
Et sicut omnes res fuerunt ab uno, mediatione unius, sic omnes res natae fuerunt ab hac una re, adaptatione


----------------------


The secret of Hermes ---
I speak not of fictitious things, but that which is certain and true.
What is below is like that which is above, and what is above is like that which is below, to accomplish the miricles of one thing.
And as all things were produced by the one word of one Being, so all things were produced from this one thing by adaptation.





One of these matters is Spiritus Mundi.
A Part of the Whole is spiritus mundi. Our Matter, our One Thing, contains within itself spiritus mundi.

It seems that you have a misunderstanding regarding spiritus mundi and do not comprehend how spiritus mundi is used in our Art or what spiritus mundi actually is.

Can you share in your opinion what spiritus mundi exactly is?





It is known at least theoretically, that SM will cultivate its own stuff anyway however, this is not the way I choose to work as it is too slow.
We are time and time again explicitly warned that we cannot speed up our Great Work.


"Haste makes waste!"

We can only abbreviate the Work once we have obtained certain Keys or walked through certain Gates.

Your goal clearly is to succeed quickly. That much is obvious. What is not obvious to you (yet!) is that the best way to not waste our time by working "too slow" is to READ(!) the Texts you refuse to read to truly understand (grasp, figure out, discern, comprehend) the Art you are attempting to master and know the object that you wish to attain with utmost clarity.

There is but one Path and it is the only Way to obtain the Philosopher's Stone.





Therefore, I found other substances, that were related to spiritus mundi, and now I have THREE THINGS FROM THE ONE THAT WHEN COMBINED, PRODUCES ONE THING ONLY.
You seem to be lacking clarity. "Three things from one thing" is not Alchemy.

Earlier I stated what Alchemy is which is in alignment with the Sages, "From One comes Two comes a Third thing...from the One source--this is Alchemy!"





This is the benefit of learning and gaining understandings in HERMETIC PHILOSOPHY itself, rather than "Alchemy". Your all probably older than me, and you haven't found the stone, NONE OF YOU. Not only do you guys read and read and (probably not pray) but keep reading, and, aswell as that, you live in 2017 with a generous soul called Awani that has allowed you ALL to COLLABORATE for fucking YEARS! Is there a chance, that you guys could be wrong? That you've been hunting in all the wrong places, playing with all the wrong things, and even though there are some gifted scientists and alchemists who are transmuting, still, they are using low grade materials. I suggest (and there wont be many more of these happening, I assure you, as I grow weary of the vanity of this forums contributors) that you guys put down your alchemy books, and read some Hermes. Without an understanding of how the earth was created in the first place (which really is NOTHING like they tell us at Uni) then you just ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE THE STONE! Full stop.
Can you name any books from Hermes that you suggest reading?

Have you read "The Divine Pymander"?






The materials you seek DO NO EXIST on the periodic table, at least not in the common forms that we are used to.
Now you are onto something!!!





There is only ONE TRUE CORNER STONE. It holds within itself all kingdoms, the code for all species exists within its matrix, because it pre-dates them. The kingdoms are the effect of the causes of ONE THING.
YES!!! SAY IT AGAIN...!!!


http://i.imgur.com/IealmG3.jpg





We have all sorts of artists around here, people who perform low level transformations as has just recently been shared by Salazius, have gained an understanding of the hermetic principals, and with these principals, you will find that there are multiply combinations of materials that will cause transmutation, considering that the universe exists in a symbolic way, and by interpreting the correct hermetic understanding of evolution, one can use MANY different materials to perform transmutation, however, MOST of these will NOT be profitable, only profitable in the way Salazius made clear, the growth he had after confirming his hermetic theory to himself.
Other than theoretical proof, what use is an unprofitable transmutation?





Elemental theory, creates epic medicines. When the proper elemental theory is used on metals, it will transmute metals. Obviously this does require a lot of understanding and skill, however, the nature of volatilised salts is to penetrate, and the nature of sulphur is to tincture, therefore, theoretically, transmutation can be done with a lot of different things.
Can you share some examples of the epic medicines you are referring to?

In your own words, how would you describe "proper elemental theory"?





Back to the subject... when looking for materials to create transmutation, what do we need? What is the "Hermetic recipe" for transmutation? Earth turning into fire (penetrating, volatilised Salts) + Fire turning into Earth (Incombustible fixed Sulphur) = transmutation. That's the formula.
Close! But that is not quite the formula...You're on to something though!

Raudorff gives us a splendid elucidation in "Of The Stone, Or Mercury Of The Philosophers" from 1652...







"The earth is turned to water and air, and the air into fire, and the fire to an earth, the earth into fire, and the fire is turned to air, and the air is turned into water, and the water is become an earth. Now the earth which was of fire’s nature, is brought to the nature of quintessence.

We having brought the matter to the abovesaid points, then have we done, and wrought according to the Philosophers’ sayings, when they say in their Books: Rising from the Earth into Heaven, and coming down from Heaven into the Earth; to that sense, to make the body which is of earth, into a spirit, which is a subtle thing in its nature, ad then to reduce the spirit into a body, which is a gross low thing, changing one Element into another, as earth into water, water into air, air into fire; then fire is turned into water, and water into fire, and that into a more subtle nature and quintessence. Having thus done, then are you come to the glory of the world: be dutiful to God, remember the poor."

It appears you are still confused about what transmutation is. Transmutation, by definition yes is 'the action of changing or the state of being changed into another form', although in Alchemy it is better stated, in my opinion, as 'the changing of a lesser substance into a higher substance'. Why would anyone want to "transmute" something backwards?





Not, quartz, plus some solvent, distil... blah blah that stuff is all retarded. Start to understand the theory of what is required to tincture things, and those theories are found in deep hermetics NOT in all these alchemy books you guys have read that apparently have gotten you NOWHERE in fucking YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAARRRRRS. Why look for a "starting matter" until you've got a PERFECT understanding of what your suppose to do with it? Just grab any male aspect thing, that has a female counterpart, then putrify and distill, you will have 'a mercury' and then work from there... the Archeus is the best place to start to learn Laboratory hermetics, rainwater beiing the male part, dew being the female counterpart. Man plus woman equals what? (and i don't mean babies) Go find out! if you haven't got that far then your still years from any serious transmuting. Success is in the perfected theory, My cool lab is just for show and tell :cool:
Elixirmixer, why look for a "starting matter" until you've got a PERFECT understanding of what you're suppose to do with it...?

In my eyes it is counterproductive to learn how to run before we know how to crawl, so I cannot at all fathom why are you attempting to pierce the veil of an Art that you clearly to not yet actually understand! One cannot be successful in calculus (Alchemy) until he knows simple addition (has a foundation). Once simple addition is understood, which it seems you do have a grasp of, then one can move on to the next step which is learning multiplication (comprehending Alchemy's processes), and then after that one can finally conquer calculus (Alchemy) and produce the Philosopher's Stone.





The TRUE stone, isn't on your periodic table, hence why your all struggling, because the elements you should be looking for are the Hermetic Elements! You could say... "philosophical"?
YES!!!

So what could our Matter possibly be?!





Going to go and write my essay and then i think i'm about done with this place.
You'll be back soon! ...See you in a couple of months!



I am excited to see what you discover!

elixirmixer
08-16-2017, 05:55 AM
I believe Spiritus Mundi to be the most volatile of all spirits.

I do understand, that if you have certian minerals, in which SM has become well fixed, that you could dry distillate a vapour that was high in SM, hence why I believe that many work with minerals, and may have some marginal success. HOWEVER, we are talking about THE P Stone, and my personal path finds minerals to be far too 'dirty' (lol) and I like the purist way that you have seen advertised by Andro, in which SM is captured in a very clean, unspecified way.

I also believe that SM, if put under gas chromatography would most likely look like some epic Hydrogen isotope. This is my answer to "What do you believe SM EXACTLY is" however this is simply a guess as I haven't set up my gas chromo machines yet (or made my SM for that matter)

Now i've busted your theories here:
A Part of the Whole is spiritus mundi. Our Matter, our One Thing, contains within itself spiritus mundi.

You say that our Prima Materia has within it our Solvent. When I believe that it makes much more sense to say that our Solvent has within it our Prima Materia.
And this is why I speculated that your working with minerals and that this is a fail. How can some type of 'thing' like a rock, be the PRIMA MATERIA, or FIRST matter.


Schmuldvich's Bible: And God said, let there be BASANITE

There is a reason its called Prima materia, and its not because that's where the work starts, its because IT WAS THE FIRST FUCKING MATTER! LITERALLY!

nope nope nope, I do not believe you have much more than me, other than maybe a source of fixed SM, which I do find extremely cool and of interest, and yet, this shall not make the stone your talking about (many times its weight.....ect)

The divine Pymander, was the book I had in mind yes. There is also another volume of his works which are HUGE that I havent read yet but will one day.

Schmuldvich
08-16-2017, 06:25 AM
http://i.imgur.com/5GNBSXP.png





I believe Spiritus Mundi to be the most volatile of all spirits.
That's great if that is what you believe, but let me assert that spiritus mundi is not just the most volatile of all spirits but it literally is our Spirit! Can you believe that!!! Do you not see the Truth in what Andro (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/member.php?371-Andro) has openly displayed for all to see??

It is altogether Animal, Vegetable, and Mineral and it is not "captured" by shining some concentrated light into a flask wrapped in aluminum foil! What if I told you that spiritus mundi is our Light! How would that change your experiments?

Do you know what Hyle and Coahyle is? What about Ergon and Parergon, are you familiar?? Remember what alfr (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/member.php?430-alfr) was talking about?





I also believe that SM, if put under gas chromatography would most likely look like some epic Hydrogen isotope. This is my answer to "What do you believe SM EXACTLY is" however this is simply a guess as I haven't set up my gas chromo machines yet (or made my SM for that matter)

Now i've busted your theories here:

You say that our Prima Materia has within it our Solvent. When I believe that it makes much more sense to say that our Solvent has within it our Prima Materia.
And this is why I speculated that your working with minerals and that this is a fail. How can some type of 'thing' like a rock, be the PRIMA MATERIA, or FIRST matter.

There is a reason its called Prima materia, and its not because that's where the work starts, its because IT WAS THE FIRST FUCKING MATTER! LITERALLY!
Thank you for answering my question! I appreciate it!

An excellent thought-exercise would be to imagine our prima materia as clay...ya know...our Clay! Does this benefit you in any way? Do you remember what is talked about in the Bible? What about the Qur'an? Have you ever read the Vedas? Have you taken a peek at the Upanishads?

Who is Adam really? What color was he? This is important if you are to understand our Matter, imo.

Do you understand "De Atatibus Mundi"?





The divine Pymander, was the book I had in mind yes. There is also another volume of his works which are HUGE that I havent read yet but will one day.
What other volume are you referring to?




http://i.imgur.com/N6tkofg.jpg

elixirmixer
08-16-2017, 06:42 AM
Yes I also understand SM to be our spiritual aspect, on a molecular level, yes. Hence why I know that you could extract it out of rocks, if it was fixed enough, or if your skillful enough, even though ive heard it can be an absolute bitch to work with, sometimes wafting straight through the glass...

So, we do have similar and yet opposing views. You seem to believe that the spirit is a result of the body, when I believe that the body is the result of the spirit. I've just had a line from some Nag Hammadi scripture come to mind .. Ill go get it.

FUCK! it would appear, you might be a little ahead of me:


nag hammadi library - (29) Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty."

hmmm... I have found a wonder, and potentially, you have found a wonder of wonders....

I conceed, based on the words of my Lord.

Awani
08-16-2017, 06:54 AM
When you have as much empirical experience and acquaintance with the old alchemical literature as I have you will realize that a lot of what you just told me, and apparently have accepted as "facts", are really uncorroborated claims/speculations of some New Age Gurus.

I suggest you get your affairs in order.

:p

solomon levi
08-16-2017, 10:21 PM
Alchemy is supposed to tell us how God created the universe - even how to become a creator in the same manner.
When we observe this creation unfold from nothing into something, we see "light coming out of the darkness".
(i'm going to gloss over details of that at this time)
When we study the lights of the universe we see hydrogen fusing into other elements until it gets to iron,
at which time the star "dies" or implode/explodes as a supernova. (there are exceptions, but generally this is true)
In these supernova there is enough temperature and pressure to make iron and some heavier elements.

The earth's core is mainly iron (and nickel) and responsible for the magnetic field.
Iron is a common meteorite. Glass meteorites (tektites) are quite common as well, and bearing piezoelectricity.
Iron is the most common element in the earth's core at 85.5%
Silicon is the next most common at 6%, Nickel at 5.2%

Earth itself is mainly composed of iron (32.1%), oxygen (30.1%), silicon (15.1%)...
giving the ingredients for iron oxide/magnetite and silicon dioxide/quartz... magnetism and electricity.
(another oxide, dihydrogen monoxide, also demonstrates charge and is a major component of the universe and earth and life)

This story is repeated in Genesis when Elohim forms Adam from the red earth/iron-rich clay -
clay being an aluminum-silicate... thus the extraction of Eve as a "side" of Adam is the extraction of "the living" piezoelectric quartz.
These correspond with the red (iron) and the white (quartz) streams emerging from the oak (ALVN in Hebrew... אֵלוֹן)
Fulcanelli mentions the poor man's way with clay.

There's many more connections and associations i have accumulated over the years.
For me the puzzle pieces come together. It doesn't mean they'll come together for you.
This thread was titled "possible subject of the art"

elixirmixer
08-16-2017, 10:54 PM
That is some really interesting stuff Solomon Levi

Someone said the other day (was it you?) that where gold is found in quartz it is always assosiated with iron and... HOOOOO LEEEEEEE SHIT! EPIC REVOS!

THANKS SOLOMON, GTG!

Schmuldvich
08-16-2017, 11:09 PM
The earth's core is mainly iron (and nickel) and responsible for the magnetic field.
Iron is a common meteorite. Glass meteorites (tektites) are quite common as well, and bearing piezoelectricity.
Iron is the most common element in the earth's core at 85.5%
Silicon is the next most common at 6%, Nickel at 5.2%
Earth itself is mainly composed of iron (32.1%), oxygen (30.1%), silicon (15.1%)...
giving the ingredients for iron oxide/magnetite and silicon dioxide/quartz... magnetism and electricity.
Do you feel that magnetism and electricity are employed by the Artist during our Great Work?



This story is repeated in Genesis when Elohim forms Adam from the red earth/iron-rich clay -
clay being an aluminum-silicate... thus the extraction of Eve as a "side" of Adam is the extraction of "the living" piezoelectric quartz.
YES!! Beautifully worded!!!

solomon levi
08-16-2017, 11:31 PM
That is some really interesting stuff Solomon Levi

Someone said the other day (was it you?) that where gold is found in quartz it is always assosiated with iron and... HOOOOO LEEEEEEE SHIT! EPIC REVOS!

THANKS SOLOMON, GTG!

i think True Initiate/Puffer said that. But i have noticed the same.
I would go further and say that the red soul of iron (green gold, immature gold) is transmuted by the quartz into gold, or something to that effect.
Though gold is found in other ores, there does seem to be a series where the iron-rich clay is refined into quartz and gold by nature.
first there is the clay, then sandstone in the clay, then quartz in/on the sandstone, then gold on the quartz.

JDP
08-16-2017, 11:35 PM
This is what Fulcanelli actually says about clay and the "way of the poor" (i.e. the so-called "dry" or "brief" way, for which Fulcanelli understood that claimed by the anonymous donor of a sample of the Stone to Helvetius):

"The first of these ways which uses the vase of the art is time-consuming, painstaking, thankless, accessible to wealthy people, but is in a place of great honor in spite of the expenditures it entails, because it is the one which authors preferably describe. It s used as a support for their reasoning as well as for the theoretical development of the Work, requires an uninterrupted labor of twelve to eighteen months, and starts with natural gold prepared and dissolved in the philosophical mercury which is then cooked in a glass matrass. This is the honorable vase reserved for noble use of these precious substances which are the exalted gold and mercury of the sages.

The second way demands, from beginning to end, only the help of a coarse clay abundantly available, of such a low cost that in our time ten francs are sufficient to acquire a quantity more than enough for our needs. It is the clay and the way of the poor, of the simple and the modest, of those whom nature fills with wonder even by her most humble manifestations. Extremely easy, it only requires the presence of the artist, for the mysterious labor perfects itself by itself and is achieved in seven to nine days at the most. This way, unknown to the majority of practicing alchemists, is elaborated from start to finish in one crucible made of fireproof clay."

So what he is actually talking about is the construction of the vessel in which the "coction" of the prepared composite matter is carried out in both "ways": one of glass (for the "humid" way), the other of refractory clay (for the "dry" or "brief" way.) He was obviously not saying that the Stone itself is made from clay.

solomon levi
08-16-2017, 11:42 PM
Do you feel that magnetism and electricity are employed by the Artist during our Great Work?


yes, i do.
they emphasize that our material must be living... mercury-vive.
the mercury has been synonymous with the serpent.
i don't think many make the connection between the serpent and the quartz... the crystal/christos... both are crucified on the tree.

elixirmixer
08-16-2017, 11:52 PM
Can you please explain "the tree" solomon?

Schmuldvich
08-16-2017, 11:52 PM
yes, i do.
they emphasize that our material must be living... mercury-vive.
the mercury has been synonymous with the serpent.
i don't think many make the connection between the serpent and the quartz... the crystal/christos... both are crucified on the tree.
Do you suppose that the Artist externally manipulates what is inside the flask via magnetism or electricity? In what way would you say or describe how this is done, or do you feel that this is done internally by the matter within the flask?

solomon levi
08-17-2017, 12:10 AM
Do you suppose that the Artist externally manipulates what is inside the flask via magnetism or electricity? In what way would you say or describe how this is done, or do you feel that this is done internally by the matter within the flask?

i think the materials inside the flask/egg have it, and then the nest/athanor is made to add to it as well.
nesting dimensions, like the Platonic solids.

Schmuldvich
08-17-2017, 12:38 AM
i think the materials inside the flask/egg have it, and then the nest/athanor is made to add to it as well.
nesting dimensions, like the Platonic solids.
So you've hopped on the piezoelectricity train with True Initiate, eh!

Thank you for your answers! I appreciate it!

True Initiate
08-17-2017, 01:18 AM
I could add my 2 cents on solomons levis theorie. All matter is composed of charged particles, negative charged electrons, positive charged protons and so on... Electricity is described as the stream of charged particles which are the very same electrons, protons and so on...

My question is where is the difference between electricity and matter?

Schmuldvich
08-17-2017, 01:26 AM
I could add my 2 cents on solomons levis theorie. All matter is composed of charged particles, negative charged electrons, positive charged protons and so on... Electricity is described as the stream of charged particles which are the very same electrons, protons and so on... My question is where is the difference between electricity and matter?
Answer: Nothing! (http://educate-yourself.org/cn/TheUniversalOne1926WalterRussell.pdf) Only the rate of vibration!


http://i.imgur.com/AqVcizl.png

True Initiate
08-17-2017, 02:02 AM
Exactly. This inevitable conclusion leads to the realization that the first matter of all matter is electricity/ magnetism!

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 03:59 AM
Soooo... Well done all of you (True Initiate, Solomon Levi, Schmuldvich((what does that name mean anyway)))

It does seem that your on to something here with your interpretation of genesis, the associations with particular kinds of Earth, ect.

Why is Quartz "crucified" does that mean the crucible? OR, as you said Solomon, something to do with a "tree"

Have any of you worked with these matters. Thats a DIRECT question to you Schmuldvich.

Have you worked with red sand or clay, have you worked with quartz. You told me that you do not work with minerals... But that could just be more illuminati lies.

How long will your work take btw? Should I expect an ounce of gold in the mail by christmas??

So, I am just tooooo keen to start working with the Spirit, and I'm going to have to fork out the last of my savings to get equipt.

I will be running three main experiments. SM on its own (just to observe its behaviour and learn about how to work with it. SM with Pulvis Solaris (thats on my PS thread) and now this, I would like to "breathe the breath of life into Adams nostils" Because that sounds pretty bloody interesting.

Peace.

Schmuldvich
08-17-2017, 04:42 AM
Soooo... Well done all of you (True Initiate, Solomon Levi, Schmuldvich((what does that name mean anyway)))

It does seem that your on to something here with your interpretation of genesis, the associations with particular kinds of Earth, ect.

Why is Quartz "crucified" does that mean the crucible? OR, as you said Solomon, something to do with a "tree"

Have any of you worked with these matters. Thats a DIRECT question to you Schmuldvich.

Have you worked with red sand or clay, have you worked with quartz. You told me that you do not work with minerals... But that could just be more illuminati lies.

How long will your work take btw? Should I expect an ounce of gold in the mail by christmas??

So, I am just tooooo keen to start working with the Spirit, and I'm going to have to fork out the last of my savings to get equipt.

I will be running three main experiments. SM on its own (just to observe its behaviour and learn about how to work with it. SM with Pulvis Solaris (thats on my PS thread) and now this, I would like to "breathe the breath of life into Adams nostils" Because that sounds pretty bloody interesting.

Peace.
I have not worked with quartz, nor have I worked with red sand (...is there such a thing?), but I do work with *Red Clay (our Earth). I do not work with minerals.

I'll be a happy little man if I accomplish the Great Work by 2023, as I have stated before.

You should not expect an ounce of gold in the mail, but feel free to fly me out to Australia anytime! I will tell you nothing (and probably talk very little--I am an introvert) and discuss nothing about Alchemy, but I will kick it with you at the beach, sleep in the comfy bed you have prepared for me, eat all the wonderful meals you make, and chill outside and stare at the stars with you! ;)

You need no more equipment to succeed. You have it all already! In fact, you have above and beyond the equipment needed to obtain the Philosopher's Stone. No need to shell out any more money on anything.

Too eager? If you were actually too eager you would be doing what has been suggested over and over again to you, which is to READ(!) the treatises written by the Philosophers of our Art. They sure seem to know something, and if I had to bet, I would say that all of the answers you seek are answered in the books of the Sages. You will achieve your Goal quickest not by buying more equipment and endlessly experimenting but by understanding and comprehending the Art that you wish to master. This is most easily done through reading. The words have all been laid out for you, me, and everybody else by the Masters of the past. Some of these guys were generous enough to explain everything you need to know, but you must first have a sound foundation and learn how to read what they were saying. I promise you they did not write those big volumes for no reason.

Working directly with our Spirit will get you nowhere. Excuse me, I should rephrase that more clearly as to veil but not deceive, Working with our Spirit will get you nowhere. You need to let our Spirit work for you. This is not an Art of human hands. Remember that thing you're always telling me about Nature? Now would be a good time to take heed and realize what you have been repeating.

Don't take my word for it though...I am just some guy on the internet, another Seeker just like you. You do you, my man!

If you were to "breathe the breath of life into Adam's nostrils", how would you go about doing so?



My name rhymes with a name I was poking fun at when I was young. Something to the degree of the following; along these lines: Mixer...Blixer...Schmixer. It means nothing but was a 'name' not already in use anywhere on the internet. I wanted a name that was not traceable to my other online accounts, so alas, Schmuldvich was born (which is actually iteration number 2 of my name--a couple members here do know iteration number 1); all the names you come up with and all the various misspellings are incessantly amusing!

*Notice the capital letters; this means I am speaking Philosophically. But you already know this.
Please refrain from getting a raging boner over red clay.

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 06:08 AM
Red Sand? Hell yeah, you'll find tonnes of it at Uluru.

Your welcome to come and visit me and my wife in Australia whenever you like, in fact that invitation goes out to anyone that I "know" from the forum.

In fact, I actually live in one of the most beautiful places in Australia, the most beautiful diving beaches, the most beautiful caves ect...

Okay... what were we talking about?

Right matters for the stone...

Oh, How would I puff up the nostils of Adam? Dunno, pour SM on some clay? ;)

Something about detoxing and focusing my mind has also calmed my wild sexual fires. Normally spend most of the day with huge boners but for some reason, not lately....

... I mean... Red Clay... Red Clay... hmmmmm...

Well... I do suppose ill have to do some reading now to work out what you mean. Probably some mercury compound...

Andro
08-17-2017, 07:45 AM
I have not worked with quartz, nor have I worked with red sand (...is there such a thing?), but I do work with *Red Clay (our Earth). I do not work with minerals.
*Notice the capital letters; this means I am speaking Philosophically. But you already know this. Please refrain from getting a raging boner over red clay.

I would venture a not-so-wild guess that it's a certain body fluid :)

It's quite typical for people who were inspired by the BOA stuff to extensively quote texts and to see 'their' same 'one and true' starting matter everywhere in the texts.

Not saying it's 'wrong', just saying I wouldn't be surprised...

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 07:57 AM
Ahhh of course! Well done Andro! That saved me heaps of brain power that my detoxification just is not going to allow.

Thank you very much :)

(dont worry it wasnt overly revealing, I already knew that a lot of the RC use blood)

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 07:59 AM
Yes HUGE mental blanks ATM.

Whats BOA again? (go on, laugh, i know i should know this...)

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 08:03 AM
WOW YES, YOU ARE RIGHT ANDRO! THATS WHAT Schweppes DOES USE!

Cause he's always going on about "our spirit" that our matter has SM within it ect...

YOU GOT IT!!! BRAVO BRAVO!

EDIT: I am now going to go all the way through Smernoffs posts and read it through these new eyes.

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 08:03 AM
We should probably delete this thread now lol

Andro
08-17-2017, 08:06 AM
Whats BOA again? (go on, laugh, i know i should know this...)

Not laughing at anyone. Not "overly revealing" either, but rather, as I said, a "not-so-wild" guess....

BoA = Book of Aquarius

There are several threads on this topic.

The BoA deals with Urine as its 'matter'.

Other R+C methods do indeed make use of blood. See Bactrom's Rosicrucian Aphorisms and Process (http://www.levity.com/alchemy/bacsproc.html). But I would read the last part (about 'common mercury') with a grain of pepper...

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 08:12 AM
Thanks again Andro, this has deepened the already very enjoyable conversations I've been having with our main man Schkrilix

AND!

I'm going to have a crack at this path IMMEDIATLY (well, pretty soon anyway) I'll be sure to share it all, since you have been so kind to share with me.

Ahhhhhh this is definitly a high moment in my Alchemical Bi-polar. I think I'm blushing...

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 08:30 AM
Okay, ive run around my house and given my wife a big rave about how excited I am, I apologize to the group for the many posts. I 'lost' myself there for a minute.

Soo.... Mr. Snugglepuss... It seem's we are now on the same page...

I'm pretty excited to see where this leads us now... I can completely understand now why you've being saying all the things you've been saying, however, I still think that my pulvis solaris method is still supieror, and also that it is much more likely to transmute metals, being THE stone.

Could your stone be THE stone? it could very well be, it certainly has the potential. Vegi, animal and mineral, check. One thing, which has within it, a few things. Check. SM. Check. very nice deductions Schmuldick.

However... Is it going to have the penetration power to melt f'ing gold? maybe... maybe.....

HEhehe im having so much fun with this now!!! And to think, you guys were just starting to bored the absolute shit out of me. IM BACK BABY!

solomon levi
08-17-2017, 12:19 PM
So you've hopped on the piezoelectricity train with True Initiate, eh!

Thank you for your answers! I appreciate it!

i didn't say that. i don't know what true initiate's train is. and i spoke of magnetism as well. and there's more than electricity and magnetism involved. those are forms of something else.

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 12:26 PM
Yeah its more a Fire/Water Polarity thing like Franz Bardons Electric and magnetic 'fluids'.

Electromagnetism is a simple, nice fitting allegory to help us talk about the effect of opposing elemental forces within the body.

alfr
08-17-2017, 01:36 PM
Not laughing at anyone. Not "overly revealing" either, but rather, as I said, a "not-so-wild" guess....

BoA = Book of Aquarius

There are several threads on this topic.

The BoA deals with Urine as its 'matter'.

Other R+C methods do indeed make use of blood. See Bactrom's Rosicrucian Aphorisms and Process (http://www.levity.com/alchemy/bacsproc.html). But I would read the last part (about 'common mercury') with a grain of pepper...
hi
yes andro You are absolutely right yes is the urine

I and about it was writing a post on the various harmonic ways in alchemy of the rc see thesaurus toeltius etc and the problem of here useless partisan contradictions

and yes

It's the aquarius book and de BOA is Urine is urine is the matter that some unfortunately absolve this matter as the only one to make the phil stone (nb and in the thesaurorum thesaurorum and Toeltius though fairly are referred to instead of multiple subjects in all the 3 kingdoms with which stone can be made an in the kingdom human phat give instruction verey PRECISE on BLOOD and URINE etc (and I think exactly as they do but also acknowledge the validity as EXACT raw material to make stone even to the urine From which various phases are extracted

And on the thesaurus, the toeltius and the secret ecstasy of the federico gualdi there are many precise and very clear instructions on the use of urine To make the stone phil And in the thesaurus There is the EPISTOLA HAIMONIS Well analyzed and explained with an INSTRUCTION on urine etc closely related to epidemic haimosis and the instruction of the 2nd chapter of thesaurus education on urine which is VERY DETAILED where it is explained TO GO TO COLLECT MATERIAL WHERE THE GREAT ROW AND YOUR OWN AND THIS INSTRUCTION IS ON THE COURSE WITH THE UNION OF ITS BROTHER .. and in cap 1 of thesauro thr are very precise instruction on BLOOD way )

URINE and the manuscript of parigino famosus disciple of raimondo lullo in him mss violet summetta and lucidarius the parigino give very precise detailed and openly explained instructions on how to process URINE for to have a phil stone

http://brbl-dl.library.yale.edu/vufind/Record/3792464

(which it in the internet I saw years ago compiles these mss of various files translated into French) and always in his manuscripts the Parisian about all 'URINE explains in detail and inexplicably without metaphors
Secrets (opsoles) how to always do on urine an exceptional philosophical or major circulatus solvent made exactly with the urine

Divine pimander adamo and matter of the earth adamo BLOOD and URINE gualdi letters

I also read in a manuscript of letters to Federico Gualdi and his answers to them (of which I now do not remember which one of his)
In regard to Adam and the raw material of the stone taken out of paradise and with regard to the divine pimander in this many letters on humab way are in these letters instruction sperm URINE BLOOD there are many letter with opinionion and answer and ask about decode it on human vay with urine as the key to these allegories and annexed to these allegories, and give a very detailed instruction on how to elaborate a philosophical stone by urine and blood
But I repeat urine is one of the stones to make the stone and is rich in life spirit but it is a great matter but also to operate and there are many other matters and with different methods

Example is of extreme interest and is assertively valid alchemically, ranging from lower materials and methods to that of the philosophal menstrum from which with a philosophical solvent also prepared separately from the weidenlfed svp or one of the various solvents phil and alkaest etc with which it is extracted and It separates all the necessary internal metal mercury and the sulfur shaving etc to make the stone

On svp you see the weidenfeld secretum adeptorun
And its prodromus
Which explains the secret key of the ancients to mortify vegal oil and animals called oleosum with an acidum which creates a type of sulfur liver
See, for example, instruction 97 in the secretum adeotorun made one sulfur liver key secret of basis of the svp of oil linseed + sulfur
see abouth this recipe 97
http://www.abardoncompanion.de/Alex/Weidenfeld.pdf
http://www.mindserpent.com/American_History/books/von_Weidenfeld/1684_von_weidenfeld_de_secretis_adeptorum.pdf

and the very esplicative and explict prodromus
https://www.scribd.com/document/341659938/From-Weidenfeld-s-Prodromus-Libri-Secundi-1

And on this exact line of operation we can find another type of sulfur liver used as the basis of a phil thinner at cap 2 of the disciple manuscript of the famous alchemist van hemon polaman in him nuvum lumen medicum see
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A55298.0001.001/1:3?rgn=div1;view=fulltext

But now I continue to prepare the post to deepen without unnecessary partisanship the various aspects and subjects that here unfortunately too much partisan and very uselessly opposed we discuss
Salazius very thanks for the very Excellent sharing foto and the line very deep of this very thanks

my best regard

solonon an true puffer

electtricity vibration magnetism frequence et

on bacstrom and use of electtricity in alchemy in him aphorism of bastron that are on instruction of the BLOOD WAY there are one pargraph very interesting see also about electtricity and also in him original translation of clear moom light there are him note of alchemy and use of electricity in alchemy very very interestign

and also in the book of elifas levi hystory of the magic this book there are many reference of use of electtricity in alchemy

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/bacsproc.html

SUPPLEMENT
to the foregoing Aphorisms.

If the globes containing the subjects be three, four or more times electrified in the beginning, before you put them in the bath; so as to introduce the Electrical Universal principle, or the Universal Spirit of Nature into the subject by motion, the same spirit in the subject will be greatly strengthened, the operation will be accelerated and improved, and you will obtain an increase of the first White salt or sublimate below the Oak stoppers.

Above I have faithfully communicated our Aphorisms.

London 5th April 1797

Schmuldvich
08-17-2017, 03:21 PM
Red Sand? Hell yeah, you'll find tonnes of it at Uluru.

Your welcome to come and visit me and my wife in Australia whenever you like, in fact that invitation goes out to anyone that I "know" from the forum.

In fact, I actually live in one of the most beautiful places in Australia, the most beautiful diving beaches, the most beautiful caves ect...

Okay... what were we talking about?

Right matters for the stone...

Oh, How would I puff up the nostils of Adam? Dunno, pour SM on some clay? ;)

Something about detoxing and focusing my mind has also calmed my wild sexual fires. Normally spend most of the day with huge boners but for some reason, not lately....

... I mean... Red Clay... Red Clay... hmmmmm...

Well... I do suppose ill have to do some reading now to work out what you mean. Probably some mercury compound...
Imbibing spiritus mundi on Red Clay would be a great start, but remember that the Sages say this is not a work of human hands.

Do you remember Fulcanelli's 'flick of the wrist'? This forum had an absolute frenzy over that phrase a few months ago...



It's quite typical for people who were inspired by the BOA stuff to extensively quote texts and to see 'their' same 'one and true' starting matter everywhere in the texts.
The BoA has been proven 'wrong' not only on this message board but many other places as well! There is a mirror of the forums before it was shut down floating on the file sharing sites online somewhere...



Ahhh of course! Well done Andro! That saved me heaps of brain power that my detoxification just is not going to allow.

Thank you very much :)

(dont worry it wasnt overly revealing, I already knew that a lot of the RC use blood)
I will not ever lie to you...or anyone else...nor will I be "overly revealing" but yes, some of those RC texts might be worth a little more diligent study. They often have Christian overtones and allude to Christ on the cross (tree).



WOW YES, YOU ARE RIGHT ANDRO! THATS WHAT Schweppes DOES USE!

Cause he's always going on about "our spirit" that our matter has SM within it ect...

YOU GOT IT!!! BRAVO BRAVO!

EDIT: I am now going to go all the way through Smernoffs posts and read it through these new eyes.
I wish you the best! Remember, the best way (imo) to learn is to first read(!), then to understand, and then to experiment. You already have such nice glassware, all you need to do now is to READ!



See Bactrom's Rosicrucian Aphorisms and Process (http://www.levity.com/alchemy/bacsproc.html). But I would read the last part (about 'common mercury') with a grain of pepper...
Finally! Someone references Bacstrom! This is one of the best and most important reasons to buy the RAMS Collection, imo. So much of his Work and translation of other peoples' Work is there. "Pepper", love it!



Thanks again Andro, this has deepened the already very enjoyable conversations I've been having with our main man Schkrilix

AND!

I'm going to have a crack at this path IMMEDIATLY (well, pretty soon anyway) I'll be sure to share it all, since you have been so kind to share with me.

Ahhhhhh this is definitly a high moment in my Alchemical Bi-polar. I think I'm blushing...
A word of warning before you start working. Our Art is an Art for the initiated. I do not claim to be an Initiate or know much more than you, but I do have respect for the Adepts, and if there is one thing I have found to be utmost true, it is that they have always had a sound foundation and understanding that they stand upon.

Hematophagy is dangerous and a Work only for the initiated. Someone so eager to start our Great Work (I'm looking at you, EM!) should do all the research they can into safe practices before beginning the Work.



Okay, ive run around my house and given my wife a big rave about how excited I am, I apologize to the group for the many posts. I 'lost' myself there for a minute.

Soo.... Mr. Snugglepuss... It seem's we are now on the same page...

I'm pretty excited to see where this leads us now... I can completely understand now why you've being saying all the things you've been saying, however, I still think that my pulvis solaris method is still supieror, and also that it is much more likely to transmute metals, being THE stone.

Could your stone be THE stone? it could very well be, it certainly has the potential. Vegi, animal and mineral, check. One thing, which has within it, a few things. Check. SM. Check. very nice deductions Schmuldick.

However... Is it going to have the penetration power to melt f'ing gold? maybe... maybe.....

HEhehe im having so much fun with this now!!! And to think, you guys were just starting to bored the absolute shit out of me. IM BACK BABY!
Well, I wish the you best! As I said, I hope to see you Succeed one day.

If I have just one suggestion that you actually do heed, I would ask you to spend at least a couple of weeks studying hematophagia before embarking on such a journey. I have said it before and warned many times that one must comprehend our Art before beginning. "Dracula" (the original) has many allusions to our Great Work built into the storyline...as does the Bible, Qur'an, Upanishads, Vedas, etc.

Almost all of the big allegories in some way or another reference our Art. See the "Iliad & Oddessey" for example...

Now would be a great time to buy RAMS.



Yeah its more a Fire/Water Polarity thing like Franz Bardons Electric and magnetic 'fluids'.

Electromagnetism is a simple, nice fitting allegory to help us talk about the effect of opposing elemental forces within the body.
i didn't say that. i don't know what true initiate's train is. and i spoke of magnetism as well. and there's more than electricity and magnetism involved. those are forms of something else.
The circulations of the human body certainly do produce some kind of electricity (inner fire?) in one way or another. You mention that there is more than electricity and magnetism involved...What else do you think is involved in our Great Work?

solomon levi
08-17-2017, 10:31 PM
Soooo... Well done all of you (True Initiate, Solomon Levi, Schmuldvich((what does that name mean anyway)))

It does seem that your on to something here with your interpretation of genesis, the associations with particular kinds of Earth, ect.

Why is Quartz "crucified" does that mean the crucible? OR, as you said Solomon, something to do with a "tree"



yeah, crucible. with alkali/oak and iron "nails". you might even go with peridot sand or crush your own. it's an iron silicate.
or perhaps Jasper or Opal, or Obsidian if you're into Game of Thrones :D
after fusing, these will be an alkali that deliquesces into oil of sand/quartz/flints. then make the TEOS from that.
That's what i would do - what i see. You'll have to be able to see if and why further treatment could lead to a stone.
It might even be a case of Saturn swallowing his children, or an electrum where the planets are systematically added to it.
Perhaps see if the iron silicate solution is not a green lion that can swallow sun.
Pulling a tincture from gold with alkali is not unheard of. I've seen it.
You have to have a mind that can see if and how these things may work together... if they follow nature.
I don't believe in alchemy where you just try something someone told you or you heard or believe (though i practiced that alchemy for years :) - so it's not a waste)
The inner alchemy must take you to putrefaction and the black phase to free you from conditioning in order to see Nature as it is...
this "comes from God"... from the next dimension which is infinite relative to this dimension...
Infinity = God/Deus/Daemon/Muse/Genie/Genius...
You're not supposed to follow someone else's genius. Alchemy is to make you genius. :) <3
The next dimension gives one two dimensional perspectives instead of one -
rebis/two-thing/double mercury/androgyne/right-left brain pineal/ida-pingala/shiva-shakti...
When the stone is inside of you, you will see it outside of you. I don't believe it happens the other way around, but i could be wrong :)

solomon levi
08-17-2017, 10:40 PM
remember that opal is different than quartz
"Because of its amorphous character, it is classed as a mineraloid, unlike crystalline forms of silica, which are classed as minerals." - wikipedia

consider opal already shows the peacock's tail
consider when Roger Bacon says:
"Take in the Name of God and the Holy Trinity, fine and well cleansed Antimonii ore, which looks nice, white, pure and internally full of yellow rivulets or veins. It may also be full of red and blue colors and veins, which will be the best."
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/rbacon2.html

alfr
08-18-2017, 10:50 AM
Imbibing spiritus mundi on Red Clay would be a great start, but remember that the Sages say this is not a work of human hands.

Do you remember Fulcanelli's 'flick of the wrist'? This forum had an absolute frenzy over that phrase a few months ago...



The BoA has been proven 'wrong' not only on this message board but many other places as well! There is a mirror of the forums before it was shut down floating on the file sharing sites online somewhere...



I will not ever lie to you...or anyone else...nor will I be "overly revealing" but yes, some of those RC texts might be worth a little more diligent study. They often have Christian overtones and allude to Christ on the cross (tree).



I wish you the best! Remember, the best way (imo) to learn is to first read(!), then to understand, and then to experiment. You already have such nice glassware, all you need to do now is to READ!



Finally! Someone references Bacstrom! This is one of the best and most important reasons to buy the RAMS Collection, imo. So much of his Work and translation of other peoples' Work is there. "Pepper", love it!



A word of warning before you start working. Our Art is an Art for the initiated. I do not claim to be an Initiate or know much more than you, but I do have respect for the Adepts, and if there is one thing I have found to be utmost true, it is that they have always had a sound foundation and understanding that they stand upon.

Hematophagy is dangerous and a Work only for the initiated. Someone so eager to start our Great Work (I'm looking at you, EM!) should do all the research they can into safe practices before beginning the Work.



Well, I wish the you best! As I said, I hope to see you Succeed one day.

If I have just one suggestion that you actually do heed, I would ask you to spend at least a couple of weeks studying hematophagia before embarking on such a journey. I have said it before and warned many times that one must comprehend our Art before beginning. "Dracula" (the original) has many allusions to our Great Work built into the storyline...as does the Bible, Qur'an, Upanishads, Vedas, etc.

Almost all of the big allegories in some way or another reference our Art. See the "Iliad & Oddessey" for example...

Now would be a great time to buy RAMS.



The circulations of the human body certainly do produce some kind of electricity (inner fire?) in one way or another. You mention that there is more than electricity and magnetism involved...What else do you think is involved in our Great Work?

Hi dear Schmuldvich

way of the blood way od the red adamic earth

it is very interested

now about way of bood :

There are in rc texts and manuscripts with precise and clear and explanatory instructions on the way of the blood and thesaurus tesaurorum and thoeltius and key of the toeltius and the secret extasi of federico gualdi and many correspondence private of guauldi with different menber rc etc etc there are on the way of blood various chapter and many very important instructions

And on the way of the blood
There are many texts and manoscrittimolto very little known and very interesting that if you want here we could thoroughly analyze

But a question? Now even in other forums you have from how widely you write you have in fact worked essentially for many years with lots of seriousness and very deeply the path of urine

So what I'm really interested in is understanding
How ever have you changed your research and you feel fundamental now the way of the blood which reasons have led you to change the kind of alchemical work and point you to the way of the red earth of Adam's blood there are specific notions that have led you to orient yourself towards The way to the blood

I am really deeply interested in understanding deeply
As after years of serious and profound work on urine
Are YOU INVESTED to choose the way of the blood? What profound reasons have led you to identify your choice with the way of the blood?

My best regard

Warmheart
08-18-2017, 05:05 PM
I was hesitating to post an interesting version of the tree thingy, but here it is:

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=994&d=1503075863

True Initiate
08-18-2017, 05:28 PM
This is the greatest speculation thread ever! Ha ha Thanks solomon levy!

Schmuldvich
08-18-2017, 08:25 PM
APHORISMS

1 ~ The soul of Man as well as all rational Spirits (the Angels) consist (according to their primitive Essence) of the Spirit of the World or Anima Mundi and the power of reasoning. They are Unities and most simple, and consequently in their very essence immortal.

2 ~ In the Beginning God created the Universal Spirit or the Universal Agent of Nature, the Soul of the Universe.

This is the first emanation of Divine Light; it is a unity and immortal, capable of manifesting itself, when moved or agitated, into Light and Fire.

It is multipliable and yet is and remains but one. It is Omnipresent and yet occupies no visible space or room, except when manifested or multiplied in its third principle, Fire. It has the power of becoming material and of returning again to universality.

This is the subject of the Stone or Medicine of the Philosophers. The more you take this in its simple, universal, unspecified or unmarried state, the easier, simpler and greater is your work, but the more this subject is already specified the more troublesome prolix and expensive is your process.

3 ~ Our Magnet to attract it (although every subject in Nature is Magnetical) is Man, and principally (Hadamah, the Dust, red earth of Man), which in the months of March, April and May, the Sun in Aries and Taurus is abundantly found in the blood of a healthy man; the Spirit of the Universe during this season residing therein most abundantly, universally and unspecified.

Hadamah signifies the first man Adam or Red Earth, which appears when the subject is dried up. In Hadamah lies concealed the blood that precious fluid wherein dwells the Universal Spirit, attracted by inspiration, and the Dust of the Red Earth, left by itself when the Universal fire nature quits it. This Universal Fire is truly Nature.

4 ~ The happy success depends on the subject being good, from a young man, if possible of a Jovial Temper or Choleric, in good health, collected in a proper season, which is in March, April and, at farthest, in May, while the Sun is in Aries and Taurus: best after Northerly winds have prevailed.



PROCESS

This is the first of all Works, the most simple, the least expensive, the easiest and the greatest in its effects. There are various works and different processes, but this is the oldest.

1st ~ The subject contains fire, air, water and earth, and requires no addition of any foreign matter, except when introduced into the metallic department.

It contains the fire of Nature, or the Universal Spirit, with Air its vehicle it contains Water, which must be separated from it in the beginning of the work and also earth which remains behind in the form of caput mortuum, where the fire has left it, and is the true Red Earth wherein the fire dwelt for a while. The subject, duly collected, should not be less than eight nor more than sixteen ounces: place it in a china or glazed basin and cover it loosely to keep the dust out.

2nd ~ In five or six hours time the first natural separation is made: the water is carefully poured off as useless and pernicious.

(This water is called the Waters of the Deluge, which are not easily dried up.)

The cold subject is placed in a double piece of clean linen in a clean china basin, in order that the superfluous water may be soaked up or absorbed by the linen, and that the cake may become dry, in a cool shady place, free from dust. This superfluous water would retard and hinder putrefaction, which is the key to regeneration.

3rd ~ As soon as the Cake is freed from all superfluous humidity, cut it to pieces with an ivory knife (do not touch it with any metal) and put it by means of a glass funnel into your Globe Glass.

4th ~ The globe glass is immediately to be shut with a stopper made of oak, which fits nicely, in order that the superfluous remaining humidity (the phlegm) may, during the putrefaction, penetrate and evaporate through the pores of the oak.

The joining of the neck and the stopper must be luted with something that is able to resist outward warmth and moisture.

5th ~ Place your luted globe glass or glasses (for it is most prudent to work with five or six glasses at once, from as many different good subjects) in a hogshead or wine pipe, filled two-thirds full with horse dung already in proper fermentation, so as to show a degree of heat from 120 to 140 or 150 degrees by Fahrenheit's thermometer. The greatest heat is in the middle, where it is generally from 140 to 150 degrees: less heat is round the staves where it varies from 90 to 100 and from that to 120 degrees.

Your horse dung must be procured before, as it takes sometimes five, six or more days before it ferments and gives the necessary heat. This is soon discovered by the steam arising from it, and by the thermometer buried in it nine or ten inches deep.

You must have two hogsheads or casks, in order to prepare a second before the fermenting heat has entirely left the first; which heat seldom lasts longer than three weeks; as your work must never become cold one single moment. You must cover the top with clean straw pretty thick, and also all round the casks, especially in winter, or the work will be too cold and your operation will be very much retarded, if not fail.

6th ~ Your bath thus previously prepared, and your glasses well luted and varnished all round the joining of the neck and stopper, except the surface of the oak, bury them in the bath all round the cask, where the gentlest heat prevails, deep enough that only the upper part of the neck and stopper, that which is luted, may be in sight or level with the surface of the bath. If they were buried in the middle in the beginning of the work your subject would dry up instead of liquefying and putrefying.

7th ~ Every morning and night take out your glasses and shake them gently every one, by a circular motion, in order to promote the solution of the red earth, which is generally effected in two or three weeks time. The whole earth dissolves into a deep ruby-red liquid, called by us Aqua Permanens or Chaos.

After this liquefaction is accomplished the glasses are shaken no more, it being then unnecessary.

8th ~ In this manner, pursuing this most simple process, moving your glasses from one cask into the other, as often as your heat ceases, you must proceed with your horse dung bath during eight or nine months time, sometimes longer, as the exact time cannot be ascertained by any one (the philosophers say "coque nec desine coquere") taking care never to suffer your work to become cold, so that the glasses may feel cold, not for one moment, as in that case your labour would be lost.

The surface of your oak stoppers will turn black and moist from the penetrating flegm. This causes the stoppers to swell and will burst the neck of every one of the globe-glasses, if you have not previously secured those necks with strips of linen pasted round them, and harpsichord wire wound over the linen, with a varnish over the whole, and with lute where the stopper joins the upper brim of the neck. This lute may be sealing wax dropped on (all round) by a burning candle, or rosin, or quick drying varnish, thickened with filings of iron, or any other good luting that can withstand warmth and moisture; but take care to keep the bottom of the stopper in sight, by not covering the neck of the glass quite so low as to hide it.

9th ~ After liquefaction of the subject, putrefaction takes place immediately. At first you see veins resembling Mercury running down from the neck to the permanent ruby water. After those veins or streams are vanished the Peacock's Tail begins to appear all round the globe, sometimes coloured like the Rainbow, sometimes purple, green, nay Gold and Silver colours, most wonderfully beautiful, present themselves.

10th ~ During putrefaction, which generally lasts 150 days, sometimes longer, the subject smells through the stopper like a human corpse; sometimes so strongly as to be smelled all over the house; and the colours variegate most beautifully.

1lth ~ After this putrefaction, which is called the Raven's-head, and which generally lasts 150 days or longer, has continued its time, the stench diminishes gradually, and the subject becomes a dry brick-red coloured earth, red earth, or dust, which remains settled at the bottom of the glass. This must not be moved nor disturbed.

12th ~ Then sublimation takes place. the Universal Spirit forsakes the dead body the red earth, ascends and descends invisibly and now produces general colours of large extent; one day the globe is black, some days after it becomes olive-green; after that sky-blue and beautiful parrot-green; then again purple or violet and crimson, mostly in general colours all round the globe. with beautiful small gold, silver, green and purple spots in the neck, like a Peacock's Tail or a Rainbow. Sometimes it looks like polished copper, then like polished steel, and sometimes like bell-metal.

13th ~ After eight or nine months all appears white or, rather, like running mercury, of a metallic colour, and the Universal Spirit sublimes and fixes itself at the bottom of the oak stopper in the neck, and remains there for three or four weeks, as white as Silver; and is the regenerated Universal Spirit, corporified in a sweet fusible salt of Nature, above half fixed.

Below remains a foliated earth of a grey colour, called by us Terra foliata, which is of no use if you choose to take this white salt or sublimate out for multiplication, in order to make the White Medicine; but if you prefer continuing the Digestion, you must by no means open the glass nor meddle with it.

This white sublimate from one glass will not be more than three, four, five or six grains at most.

You have now in your possession the Corporified Spirit of the Universe, the Regenerated Fire of Nature, the Saviour and Regenerator of matter, or the White Medicine in its first infant state, the Urim or Regenerated Light. This is already a universal medicine for the animal creation, but it is to be carried further, to greater perfection.

This sweet salt or sublimate looks like copelled silver, or like the Moon in the Morning.



THUMMIM

14th ~ The glasses are now to be removed to the middle of the bath and kept there, as the work now requires more heat. (By Fahrenheit's thermometer the heat in the middle at the depth of 10 or 12 inches is generally from 130 to 150 degrees.)

Continue the digestion, coque nec desine coquere, renewing your horse dung every fortnight or three weeks, a few days before your heat ceases; removing your glasses from one cask into another from time to time as your heat may require.

Your White Sublimate fixed at the bottom of your stoppers, will descend again into the red earth and from thence re-ascend, and will pass through all the former colours several times more, until it fixes itself once more at the bottom of the stopper (by us called querca domus) and becomes first of a saffron colour, but in the course of a few weeks more of a fiery-red colour.

This business from the White to the Red, requires sometimes three or four months, but the exact time cannot be determined.

Now you are in possession of Thummim, Consummatum est, of Moses and Aaron.

15th ~ During the first and second digestion the subject dries and liquefies several times and undergoes many changes of colours, which appear all round the globe and in the neck of the glass, and never cease until the red sublimate is brought to perfection.

There remains again an earth, the Dust or red earth which is of no further use, being now totally deprived of fire, which is life.

(Admire the simplicity and truth by which the subject and this primitive dust is plainly declared in the words 'The dust or red earth of Man' as well as the Magnet.)



FIRST MULTIPLICATION

16th ~ There are only three Universal passive fluids or humidities in Nature. These three, centrally, are very analogous to each other.
For the Animal Kingdom the animal fluid or Blood is appointed, for the Vegetable Kingdom water, and for the Mineral Mercury, which is the radical humidity of metals.

Each of these three fluids contains fire, water, earth - Soul, spirit and body, sulphur, mercury, salt. From each of these fluids, if properly treated and duly animated by the Universal Spirit a Universal Medicine may be made.

Now in order to specify towards Metallic Nature, your Universal regenerated Spirit or Salt, the White or Red Medicine, proceed thus:

17th ~ Take four parts of the White or the Red Medicine, and ten parts of highly purified Mercury (best revived from Cinnabar) and make an amalgam as follows:

Put the very accurately weighed ten parts of Mercury in a small china tea cup, or in a small smooth crucible, on a gentle charcoal fire, and let it stand until the Mercury begins to fume. Take it that moment from the fire (avoid breathing the fumes) and at the same instant add the four parts of the White or the Red Medicine (previously enveloped in softened wax) to the just fuming hot Mercury. Stir it with a clean solid glass rod and you will have an amalgam.

The multiplication is performed according to the table of Pythagoras [the Tetractys]; the ratio of one side of the equilateral triangle to the whole figure, thus. That is, 4 parts of the Medicine to 10 parts of the metallic water.



DIGESTION WITH THE METALLIC WATER OR FERMENT

18th ~ This amalgam is put immediately into a small globe glass, of sufficient strength (the neck previously secured with linen, wire and varnish to prevent it from bursting), not above 2 inches in diameter, or of such a capacity that the amalgam may fill no more than one fourth part of the globe in height. If the globe, however, be a little larger there will no harm: it is better a little too big than too small.

Secure your glass with an oak stopper, and lute it exactly as you did before.

19th ~ Place it in your bath, but now in the middle, where the greatest heat is, in 140 or 150 degrees. Bury it in the horse dung so deep that the stopper may be a little under the surface of the bath.

20th ~ Do not move it except when you are obliged to place it in the other cask.

By degrees the Universal Medicine unites radically with the Metallic water, and becomes in two or three months time, if the white sublimate has been employed, a silver white tinging Medicine, a dry substance extremely fusible, in one solid mass, after having passed through all the colours: but if the Red Medicine has been employed it becomes a Red tinging Metallic Medicine, which looks in the dark like a glowing or fiery coal.

This is the more perfect and multiplied Urim if the White, Thummim (consummatum est), if the Red Medicine. Aaron wore them both in his breastplate.

21st ~ Both these medicines, the White as well as the Red, when perfectly fixed remain at the bottom of the globe-glass, and must be carefully separated from the earth or caput mortuum of the Mercury underneath it, sticking to the bottom of the glass under the medicine. It is necessary to break off the neck of the glass.

22nd ~ Both Medicines once multiplied or fermented with the metallic radical humidity (Mercury) do not require any further fermentation with gold; but tinge already, after this first multiplication.

One part of the White Medicine tinges 10 parts of mercury, lead, tin, copper, and iron into pure silver of 16 fine.

One part of the Red Medicine, once multiplied, tinges 10 parts of Mercury, lead, silver, tin, copper and silver into pure gold of 24 carats fine.
The metallic medicines tinge each metal in proportion as they abound in Mercury, therefore Mercury itself in the greatest quantity, with very little loss, lead the next with a little more loss; then silver and tin; tin with more loss than lead; and lastly copper and iron with a great deal of loss and a large scorification of external metallic sulphur, as these two last metals contain but a small proportion of Mercury, which is the only metallic principle that is ameliorated and fixed.

23rd After the first multiplication with the metallic water, the White Medicine is the Urim in its first multiplied state, tinging and ameliorating the inferior metals into the purest and softest silver. The Red Medicine once multiplied with the metallic water is the Thummim in its first multiplied state - the Exalted Universal Medicine striking at the root of every acute and chronic disease of man and animals, and tinging the mercurial principle of all the inferior metals and minerals into the purest and softest gold of 24 carats.

Both medicines are soluble in rectified spirit of wine and even in water.



AUGMENTATION

24th If the White medicine, once multiplied, be melted with pure silver - one part of the Medicine to four parts of pure refined silver - the silver becomes a white, brittle, glassy substance. The medicine is in this way Augmented in quantity only, but not in quality nor in power, as it now tinges no more than ten parts, in the same manner as before; but you thus obtain a greater quantity of the same medicine, for Transmutation only.

25th ~ If the Red Medicine, once multiplied with mercury, be melted with pure refined gold, 1 part of the Medicine with 4 parts of pure gold, the gold becomes a brittle, deep orange coloured vitreous substance, and the Medicine is augmented in quantity, but not in quality nor in power; it tinges only as before, 1 part tinging ten of inferior metals into most pure gold, but you have more medicine in quantity.

The White and the Red Medicines thus fermented with silver or with gold are no longer soluble in Rectified Spirit of Wine, and much less in water, and therefore are no longer medicinal for the human body or for animals; on the contrary, they are now highly pernicious, corrosive and destructive to animal life, and also to vegetable; and they cannot be multiplied any further by the metallic humidity.



SECOND MULTIPLICATION

The Second and every subsequent Multiplication of the medicine, with the metallic water (Mercury) in quality and power, is done exactly like the first, according to the table of Pythagoras, as has been mentioned and explained before.

26th ~ Make your amalgam as before, with the same accuracy and precaution - 4 parts of medicine to 10 parts of pure Mercury - put your amalgam in a globe glass, so that three or four parts at least remain empty; lute the neck with the oak stopper, and bury it again in the middle of your bath where the greatest heat prevails.

This process will be finished in a much shorter time than the first; and every subsequent multiplication is sooner accomplished than the foregoing,
because the Multiplied medicine increases wonderfully in fusibility, the power of penetrating, and fixity, and therefore it is sooner multiplied than before.
It passes again through all the colours, dies and is regenerated as before.

This can also be done over a lamp provided your heat is nicely regulated so as to imitate that necessary, gentle animating heat of horse dung.
During the first labours of liquefaction and putrefaction, we prefer the horse dung to the lamp, as the most natural, though divers philosophers have used divers means.

27th ~ You will again find your exalted medicine at the bottom of the globe upon a small caput mortuum or mercurial earth, from which Earth you must carefully separate your medicine; which is easily done as the substances are distinct enough.

Now you have the Medicine of the Second Order, more fiery than the first, and ten times more powerful. One part of this medicine tinges one hundred parts of the inferior metals into silver or gold, according as you have employed the white or the red medicine.

28th ~ This Medicine, infinitely more soluble, more fiery, more penetrating and powerful, can no longer be administered in substance to the human body, being too great a fire for our constitution to bear.

The Medicine of the First Order may be administered in substance, 1/4 of a grain or less for a dose; but we will give you our method how to dissolve and administer our medicine with safety.

29th ~ The third, fourth and fifth Multiplication, always with the pure metallic water or Mercury, is performed exactly in the same manner as the first and second, but each succeeding multiplication is sooner performed than the foregoing.

We do not know that ever a philosopher ventured so far as the Fifth, as we truly believe that so fusible, ingressive and penetrating a substance, which is actually fire and Light, would run through every glass.

30th ~ The Medicine, whether White or Red, of the First Order, of the First Multiplication with Mercury, tinges ten times its weight.
The Medicine after the Second Multiplication tinges one hundred times its weight.

After the Third multiplication one part tinges one thousand parts.

After the Fourth Multiplication one part tinges ten thousand parts.

After the Fifth Multiplication one part, one hundred thousand parts; that is, one single grain would produce 171b 4oz of silver or gold.
(Who can comprehend the incalculable fire of Nature! infinitely multipliable!)



ADMINISTRATION

31st ~ Take four ounces of the purest, most highly rectified Spirit of Wine (not Corn spirit) dissolve therein, without heat, or at most only in the Sun's heat, one grain of the First, Second or Third multiplied Red Medicine, and, observing well the colour of the Tincture thus formed, add a second or a third grain (according to the power of your medicine) and fourth or fifth, or more, until your Spirit of Wine becomes tinged of a translucent Ruby colour, like Burgundy Wine - then cease to add any more of the Medicine.

The Medicine of the Third Order will sooner tinge the Spirit of Wine sufficiently deep than that of the First.

This Heavenly Essence is the Highest and most Universal Aurum Potabile of the earliest ages.

With this glorious Essence we tinge a pint of Madiera or Lisbon or good old Rhenish Wine, dropping our Ruby Essence into the White Wine until the latter become of a deep orange or pale Burgundy, or deep Malaga colour, and appears so in a two ounce phial.

This medicinal wine may safely and without the least danger be given to both sexes, and of all ages in every disease whether the disease be hot or cold, acute or chronic, makes no difference.

A teaspoonful may be given for a dose, once or twice in 24 hours, in dangerous acute, or obstinate chronic diseases, cancers and the like; but in slight cases one dose only will effect the cure.

32nd ~ The Red Medicine, thrice multiplied, placed in a glass globe, with a stopper luted in, and suspended in a room, gives light in the dark like a fiery coal.

33rd ~ The White Medicine, after the First Multiplication, coagulates and fixes a tumbler or glass full of clear water into a rock crystal. Put grain after another into the water until a disturbance is observed to take place in the water; then cease, and in half an hour the glass will break leaving the crystal fixed.

34th ~ The same White Medicine projected on glass in fusion, leaves the glass, when cold, perfectly ductile and maleable.

35th ~ With the Red multiplied Medicine, glass fluxes or crystals are fixed into diamonds, rubies, emeralds and other precious stones.



GLOBE-GLASSES

The glasses are globular digesting glasses, of five, or at most six, inches in diameter, with a neck five or six inches in length and wide enough to admit your thumb or at least your middle finger.

You must make stoppers of fine grained, very dry Oak, to fit nicely into the necks which should be ground in the inside a little way so as to form a nice round hole for the stopper: the stopper should go into the neck one inch deep, and should leave one inch above the neck.

The globes for multiplication are about two inches in diameter, with necks three or four inches long and wide enough to admit a finger.
All the glasses should be made of considerable strength - at least one eighth of an inch in substance.



SUPPLEMENT

If the globes containing the subjects be three, four or more times electrified in the beginning, before you put them in the bath; so as to introduce the Electrical Universal principle, or the Universal Spirit of Nature into the subject by motion, the same spirit in the subject will be greatly strengthened, the operation will be accelerated and improved, and you will obtain an increase of the first White salt or sublimate below the Oak stoppers.


Above I have faithfully communicated our Aphorisms.

London, 5th April 1797


Sigismund Bacstrom
M.D. F.R.C.



Hi dear Schmuldvich

way of the blood way od the red adamic earth

it is very interested

now about way of bood :

There are in rc texts and manuscripts with precise and clear and explanatory instructions on the way of the blood and thesaurus tesaurorum and thoeltius and key of the toeltius and the secret extasi of federico gualdi and many correspondence private of guauldi with different menber rc etc etc there are on the way of blood various chapter and many very important instructions
And on the way of the blood
There are many texts and manoscrittimolto very little known and very interesting that if you want here we could thoroughly analyze
But a question? Now even in other forums you have from how widely you write you have in fact worked essentially for many years with lots of seriousness and very deeply the path of urine So what I'm really interested in is understanding
How ever have you changed your research and you feel fundamental now the way of the blood which reasons have led you to change the kind of alchemical work and point you to the way of the red earth of Adam's blood there are specific notions that have led you to orient yourself towards The way to the blood
I am really deeply interested in understanding deeply
As after years of serious and profound work on urine
Are YOU INVESTED to choose the way of the blood? What profound reasons have led you to identify your choice with the way of the blood?

My best regard

Adam Hadamah is something of great interest to me, and imo something that holds great Value. I have learned a lot studying about Adam.

Gualdi has much to add, but sadly not about Adam or clay.

I do my best to stay invested in my Work (which is funny because we have members here who are certain I have never even began our Great Work!) and I like to think that I am a pretty consistent guy, both in speech and Practice. Not much has changed, except for my understanding, which grows daily!

Blood interests me because of all the allusions in the Bible and I can see the parallels, but who knows, I could be wrong! I am just some random guy on the internet...another Seeker like you!

What keeps me interested in the way of Blood is mainly the Bible, but other reasons as well. I have mentioned Bacstrom before and I know you have read the texts freely available to all. You & I, and it seems most of the members here, read the words of the Masters completely differently. Out of everybody here, I would say that you and I are mostly on the same Page. Very few of us on are the same page although it does appear that most of us do have the same Goal.

I worked in the medical field for a while and had access to, and witnessed, many IV infusions and phlebotomy processes. My time there inspired me to study this Life Force I saw daily extracted from living members of society.

Again though, a word of warning, hematophagy is not to be taken lightly, and safe practices should always be taken when extracting any kind of Fluid from the body or ingesting anything foreign.

Reading helps! It is my main way of gaining wisdom.


I was hesitating to post an interesting version of the tree thingy, but here it is:

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=994&d=1503075863


http://i.imgur.com/fZjIPj9.jpg

It is a picture of a meditating man with chakra points indicated.

Why were you hesitant to post?

Warmheart
08-18-2017, 08:37 PM
It is a picture of a meditating man with chakra points indicated.
Not only that. Look at the veins.

Why were you hesitant to post?
It probably could be going off-topic, but then last few posts started talk about blood. And I think there is a lot to uncover within such kind of "tree", within man, which can be also used to learn Nature and processes of Nature around him.

Schmuldvich
08-18-2017, 08:49 PM
I was hesitating to post an interesting version of the tree thingy, but here it is:

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=994&d=1503075863


Not only that. Look at the veins.

It probably could be going off-topic, but then last few posts started talk about blood. And I think there is a lot to uncover within such kind of "tree", within man, which can be also used to learn Nature and processes of Nature around him.

The subject of this thread is the possible Subject of our Art. This umbrella allows for much discussion. If the mods get their panties in a bunch over what is discussed, they will gladly merge/split/separate threads. They seem to love doing that (j/k).

I see the veins. I see the "leaves" that the bottom veins form, and I see the top veins emanating from the head. Where does this image originate? What other symbolism do you see, Warmheart?

Do the veins spell a certain word or something?

Warmheart
08-18-2017, 08:55 PM
Do the veins spell a certain word or something?
There was a classic image with tree and 2 water streams coming out of it. There was also a catch-phrase "pierce the stone and water will flow".

That definitely feels like Microcosmic Water, but it alone doesn't seem to possess the qualities of Macrocosmic Water.

alfr
08-18-2017, 09:19 PM
hi dear Schmuldvich vey thanks for answer very interesting very thanks

now you work also urina and clay or finish to vork of it ?
and now work only way of blood ?
or ? continue all these way ?

i have read one maniscript of federico gualdi with instruction That he work together the 2 matters on bloob with imbibition of urine and by this 2 matters Joined made stone

in tesauro thesaurorum RC there are one chapter (very similar at the of secret quarantine of cagliostro ) on the rigenereration And rejuvenation in this special quarantine Is used The stone made with the blood

and also about human way is very intersting the chaprer of the TOELTIUS COELUM RESERATUM CHYMICUM de R. C. d'OR titled
3) Pour faire la Pierre à partir du Règne Animal, comme Adam lorsqu'il ramera la Pierre du Paradis

nb the extasi secret of fedrico gualti it is the true source of the many instruction of the thesauro thesaurorum and toeltius RC

my best regad

solomon levi
08-18-2017, 11:55 PM
The subject of this thread is the possible Subject of our Art. This umbrella allows for much discussion. If the mods get their panties in a bunch over what is discussed, they will gladly merge/split/separate threads. They seem to love doing that (j/k).

the subject is "possible subject of the art: touchstone" :) if you want to be technical
but i don't care :) i said what i wanted to

Warmheart
08-19-2017, 12:08 AM
nb the extasi secret of fedrico gualti it is the true source of the many instruction of the thesauro thesaurorum and toeltius RC
Hmmm, I keep hearing about Extasy of Federico Gualdi but can't seem to find the book, where could I see it?

alfr
08-19-2017, 12:18 AM
hi Warmheart
now the extasi federico gualdi there are only in german on line in google book i have see it now i try to found link and i put it here

my best regard

alfr
08-19-2017, 02:49 AM
hi Warmheart and every body
here the link of the book of the manuscript of federico gualdi the extasy secret
the manuscript was transcript and pubblic in german language by the last RC in the 1788 a lipsya under a different name that it is titled :

Das Geheimnis aller Geheimnisse ex Macrocosmo et Microcosmo


https://books.googleusercontent.com/books/content?req=AKW5Qae0k73tTh6rwX5nc-KtjkkxDrhWvaq6Oz0U1gZ5PyNYf8QWZtQZ5bo0bvuVPn2PSvEb c_QpcwO36whPqk4u6lOVwBKj8Ly2lVfuR4seDkHPbnhBqxRAt4 3VidwMZT2XYshZ5tXPsijhB1wOO4BntHxMKKNcxsKZiFCtPOCV zrphoVbkvYqNYE97WPWWq6mEZEmBEfjQrnh5G1XbTleFrpvn_m cizIwUj9Mk4Axzn9O3TUh1G4lXY1_cUohsUd_kZyxkpe7EEFSc CvC0xDqhm3ZxT6lP0VeWTf1TMeicdTg5cMS1quM

nb before closed the last RC in 1700 will pubblic many many of the her very inner secret
so keep secret in the tragic century 2000 is absolutle opsolete cildish and anacronistic

Because many of the very big internal secrets were decided by the RC themselves to publish everything already in 1700

so NB It would be nice for those who blatze so much of secrets in this tragic century 2000 and want them to keep that studying deep and very well the past history of the RC decision

my best regard

Warmheart
08-19-2017, 08:53 AM
hi Warmheart and every body
here the link of the book of the manuscript of federico gualdi the extasy secret
Thank you, Alfr. Though link didn't work (seems to be Google cache), I found it with the name you provided here:
https://archive.org/details/b28768528
It seems that I need to improve my knowledge of German at least for this book.

Weidenfeld
08-19-2017, 02:03 PM
hi Warmheart and every body
here the link of the book of the manuscript of federico gualdi the extasy secret
the manuscript was transcript and pubblic in german language by the last RC in the 1788 a lipsya under a different name that it is titled :

Das Geheimnis aller Geheimnisse ex Macrocosmo et Microcosmo


my best regard

Hi alfr

from where do you know that the anonymous author of the text was Federico Gualdo ? Did eventually Alexandre de Danann mention it ?

Weidenfeld

alfr
08-19-2017, 03:56 PM
hi Warmheart

i try ank link open but also you link is
very good
federico gualdi the extasy secret
the manuscript was transcript and pubblic in german language by the last RC in the 1788 a lipsya under a different name that it is titled :

Das Geheimnis aller Geheimnisse ex Macrocosmo et Microcosmo

link https://archive.org/details/b28768528

..........................................

And nb at all :
this very secret text of the rc (secret extasy of federico gualdo ) in wicht they rc GIVE AND EXPAINED THEY VERY SECRET INSTRUCTION was NB already published in 1788

And that should make us think well
Now about who I am and insists on the various with alchemical secrets in the tragic 2017

A bit of serious history and a serious and pressing invitation before expressing themselves to look back and study the story very well

HERE IS HERE FOR HISTORICAL TRUTH FOR THOSE IN GOOD FAITH? QUANTITY DOES NOT SAW AND MAYBE NOT KNOW IT ...

(Therefore regardless of different visions about the very important function that will have the alchemical knowledge for everyone in these tragedy and obscure times ...)

A YEAR OF HISTORY REAL SELLE CHOICES BETWEEN RC RESTANTS RETURNING IN THE END OF 1700-1800 AND THE EXISTING PUBLIC AND EXPLICITIVE BODY ON THE ALCHIMIA IN THE PAST CENTURY

Now I also have those who in 2017 were in the internet still in italy a closed secret view when the books and manuscripts containing the so-called secret arcani in 2017 are in fact only public that unfortunately in different languages ​​and very few in Italian

That already historically at the end of the 1700s the rose cross themselves before closing their public presence decided to publish many of their secret arcani and gave them prints with publishers of their control and the preface they attached to the various liberties well explain that es See the preface of their astral powder and the motivations of their choice these inestimable arcani who decided to publish were added in 1788 to lipsya published the famous secret extras of Federico Gualdi and also by the rc was published the most important text of solar alchemy the Arcana Divina, and the text Toclius and also the signastern (published internal newsletter of secret alchemic and even teurgical instructions of their Asian brothers' internal degrees rc) etc cet etc as well as the public weidenlfeld with boyle his Prodromus and this The publication of extreme importance was publicly presented to the royal scociety or the Kunckel without mental closures Already in the 1700's (in order to pre-empt in advance to Plot the same researches and experiments on spiritus wines .. of the ancient ... at a symposium of scientists his highly explanatory Epistle CONTRO SPIRITUS WINES ... SINE ACIDUM etc etc etc etc
(See http://eprints.lincoln.ac.uk/14610/1/291006.proof.pdf
And symposia among scientists who analyzed and often discovered and explained the alchemic mysteries of the ancients in 1700 with epistles of books and comparative symposia were normal and extremely frequent in the various national scientific societies es royal English society or analogous to French etc etc etc) nb research Comparison and experimentation already at the same time but far more extensive than it is now among scientists on alchemy, see on this book lectures etc lectures by Lawrence M. Principe etc etc
(TO FIND CONFIRMATION OF THIS TO PDF ETC BASED TO DO ANY SIMPLE SEARCH IN GOOGLE)

And NB, and that if you say and ignore it for ignorance or worse, this is for those who are at least not well aware that it is THE HISTORY and these are precise choices made in 1700 by the RC epigones who decided to publish them already In 1700 many of their greatest and secret arcani

Therefore, in 2017, I invite very warmly to those who have historical visions that are least culturally deficient and ignore it to diligently recall the history and the HISTORICAL PRECISE CHOICES made by the RC and to find out in depth a little better about it
Cordially :)

Hi Weidenfeld

On the secret extasy of the gualdi and to him attribution there are not only the searches of the books of alexande de danan (which in brackets I know very well since the researches he published in his various books were all ours and they were all of our group That they were published with him and with him but certainly but in terms and different prefaces and contextualizations
but THIS IS not very badly the important thing is that these KNOWLEDGE should COME OUT AND NOW CAN WELL CIRCULATE FOR ALL )

But there are also very good and very deep searches of a Dutch author about what has been published on various texts (which now unfortunately for now I do not remember names and titles)

AND MORE IF YOU CONFRONT WELL AND DEEP THESE TEXT CAN SEE IS THAT IN THESE TEXT ARE VERY VERY SIMILAR INSTRUCTION ETC

regards :)

True Initiate
08-19-2017, 05:42 PM
This text is not from Gualdi! He is not even mentioned in the book! The true work of Gualdi is The Philosophia Hermetica. Google it. There is even a english translation which i have.

You can find the artwork from this MS here:
https://innergarden.org/artwork/philosophiahermetica

Illen A. Cluf
08-19-2017, 11:39 PM
This text is not from Gualdi! He is not even mentioned in the book! The true work of Gualdi is The Philosophia Hermetica. Google it. There is even a english translation which i have.


I have a French version of one of Gualdi's books (Un Rose-Croix Meconnu). Is the Englsish copy you are referring to the one by Logan Kennedy?

alfr
08-20-2017, 12:02 AM
hi extasi secret in many manuscript extasi secret french version and germany versino the nane of guadi it is in the title this control it please thanks

the book titled Das Geheimnis aller Geheimnisse ex Macrocosmo et Microcosmo https://archive.org/details/b28768528 it is extsi secret the only differnt it is the title

of extasi secret i have many version and this is the same with little difference and not have this the chapter final of omunculus
no more
so if have book french ? of dannan Un Rose-Croix méconnu Federico Gualdi very big book 750 pg with many document
or yuo have the book in italian ? of boella Philosophia Hermetica (nb dannan is nik boella )book with many large chapter and large note on true history and pratice alchemical of federico gualdi circle ?
so please read better thanks
book of dannan and esplication of this in french and in italian i am sorry book of danann alias alessandro boella book our ex menber (now we put out for no sane idde and him like money not us so we put him go out of our group but the document of all himbook are our ) bu of thid book there are not in inglish sorry but red better all si explication very clear con confront manuscript with the text german
Das Geheimnis aller Geheimnisse ex Macrocosmo et Microcosmo ans see are the same so if you have this text danann boella frech and italinan and manuscript ?(we yes we have and all) so nb read better thanks

regards

Illen A. Cluf
08-20-2017, 12:39 AM
Hi Alfr, sorry, but I had a difficult time following what you wrote. I know that Logan Kennedy (now deceased) provided a very poor translation of The Philosophia Hermetica, and was wondering if that was the English copy you were referring to.

As for the book I have, it is the French version, which is 704 pages in length. It is entitled: "Un Rose-Croix Meconnu Entre Le XVII Et Le XVIII Sieceles: Federico Gualdi Ou Auguste Melech Hultazob Prince D'Achem", Avec de nombreux textes set documents rares et inedits pour servir a une histoire de la Rose-Croic d'Or", 2006.

alfr
08-20-2017, 12:59 AM
hi Illen A. Cluf
now the first book is one translation in inglish i know it and it is true it is a one very very poor translation and it absolute it not good
and this book is is not the same of our italian in our book italian there are many uor chapters of explication of the pratice and of the history of circle of gualidi
the inglish translation is no good

the second book It is by danann alias alexandre boella is a uor ex member ancient an this book it is with all our document entitled:

"Un Rose-Croix Meconnu Entre Le XVII Et Le XVIII Sieceles: Federico Gualdi Ou Auguste Melech Hultazob Prince D'Achem", Avec de nombreux textes set documents rares et inedits pour servir a une histoire de la Rose-Croic d'Or", 2006.

and this book for the document (that are all of us ) is very very good and inside there are clear explication of secret extasi of federerico gualdi with many clear instructions it is a very good text

my best reegad

True Initiate
08-20-2017, 01:47 AM
I have a French version of one of Gualdi's books (Un Rose-Croix Meconnu). Is the Englsish copy you are referring to the one by Logan Kennedy?

Yes, i was refering to Logan Kennedy's translation. It is not so bad in my opinion. The path described by Gualdi is amalgam path very similar to Flamel.

"Un Rose-Croix Meconnu Entre Le XVII Et Le XVIII Sieceles: Federico Gualdi Ou Auguste Melech Hultazob Prince D'Achem", Avec de nombreux textes set documents rares et inedits pour servir a une histoire de la Rose-Croic d'Or", 2006 is the best book written about Gualdi but i am sorry to say but it appears that Gualdi was a fraud.

Schmuldvich
08-20-2017, 01:53 AM
Yes, i was refering to Logan Kennedy's translation. It is not so bad in my opinion. The path described by Gualdi is amalgam path very similar to Flamel.

"Un Rose-Croix Meconnu Entre Le XVII Et Le XVIII Sieceles: Federico Gualdi Ou Auguste Melech Hultazob Prince D'Achem", Avec de nombreux textes set documents rares et inedits pour servir a une histoire de la Rose-Croic d'Or", 2006 is the best book written about Gualdi but i am sorry to say but it appears that Gualdi was a fraud.
An amalgam of what?

True Initiate
08-20-2017, 02:08 AM
Antimony, iron and mercury and later gold is added.

alfr
08-20-2017, 02:15 AM
hi
The important is studying deep an well the books thoroughly the manuscripts the various and many private and personal cartels of the federico gualdi with his disciples the rc and the various nobles
of the time then after having read well and deep them studied and profoundly well analyzed well each one make their own Ideas

ovvius that after i have read deep and well study many many manuscript different version of extasi seceret and also a different manuscript of him... very less know... and many cartels private and internal at the rc of fedrico gualdi my opinion after this i have deep study is total different for me guadi is a big alchimist and big leader and true sorce of the many order german rc stark template priorate etc

regards

JDP
08-20-2017, 02:59 AM
Antimony, iron and mercury and later gold is added.

http://musicpleer.audio/#!d7a3b94bfb332d7e996b5d48197eab3d

Illen A. Cluf
08-20-2017, 03:41 AM
Y i am sorry to say but it appears that Gualdi was a fraud.

How did you come to that conclusion, T.I.?

True Initiate
08-20-2017, 04:03 AM
One of his cover names was Prince Hulta Zob from India. That's Gualdi dressed in his con man outfit! The same with Comte St. German or Casanova. Just Google Prince Hulta Zob and Gualdi.

http://s3.postimg.org/klnpskitv/9284809.jpg

Kibric
08-20-2017, 06:21 AM
Friedrich Walther ?

Fraud ?

Signor Gualdi was Rosicrucian
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=24pkCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA223&lpg=PA223&dq=federico+gualdi+rosicrucian&source=bl&ots=NeRf1Ic3Yu&sig=Jy_6x79V-ilWfQoI5E5oT28HiDQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjn466wkeXVAhUFIsAKHXQXBP0Q6AEITDAK#v=on epage&q=federico%20gualdi%20rosicrucian&f=false

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.lebistrotdelarosecroix.com/article-ediction-de-gualdi-pour-le-bistrot-59940732.html&prev=search

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SuLjpg-K3kEC&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=signor+gualdi&source=bl&ots=O3Yz7ahVzb&sig=davUYF1Jmpa0cBTKmxVpXrBds0o&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2hO6FleXVAhWhA8AKHWgzAZQQ6AEIWDAN#v=on epage&q=signor%20gualdi&f=false

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.alexandrededanann.net/f_gualdi_it.htm&prev=search


Gualdi was considered one of the leaders of the Order of the Rose-Cross of Gold, founded well before 1710 (a manuscript preserved in Naples, dated 1678, would attest to the existence in Italy and in Germany of this confraternity Already in 1542); In accordance with the statutes of the Order, devoted himself to alchemy, the creation of family spirits and homunculus , the manufacture of medicines and elixir ...

The subject of an investigation by the Holy Office of Venice (1676), however, did not result in a trial, but later disappeared from this city to reappear to German land in 1716 ... The rare engravings of the time depict him Transformed into August Melech Hullozob, prince of Achem, with all the attributes of a great Eastern lord.



We can not say much about the living conditions of this man
singular. The lack of information about it, found in the writings
Alchemical, is distorted by fabulous additions. One can not even
Not say with certainty when and where he is actually born and dead - voila
Why it was easy to impute to him an age of a few centuries -
As long as one was unable to indicate where he came from and where he was.
Gone " 1 . For having found several autograph manuscripts,
Possible to highlight some fragments of his life and
Work, of which here is the essential.
Probably native of Germany, the man calls himself Federico
Gualdi, although I can not swear that his surname was real.
Between 1660 and 1678 he lived in and around Venice; It is socially
integrated. In 1660 , then in 1663 , he proposed his solution so that the terrible
Acqua alta which had just taken place was the ultimate. Between 1663 and 1666 , he operated
The mine complex of Andreana Crotta, a widow and
Owner of deposits in Val Imperina; we will learn
By the sons of Andreana that he is mining dealer since at least

In 1676 , on the incentive of Francesco Giusto - a mining dealer
Gualdi had stoned - the Inquisition records antedated jealousies
Of ten years raising some veil over the Venetian circle of his
Alchemical processes; Although it is lent the canonical age of " 200
Or 300 years ", there is no incentive for the Inquisitor to continue the investigation; he ... not
Will not be heard. Other testimonials make him a reputation for being a
Alchemist (reality is otherwise banal: the man paraded
In Venice, pockets full of gold, the credulous imagined some
Successful transmutation, man had only enriched himself without the knowledge
Widow Crotta). As for the last testimony giving Gualdi alive, he
From a letter dated 2 November 1678 addressed to a number of
"D. of R.". The old age of Gualdi? I resigned myself to ignoring it,
Like its genealogy, its childhood, its youth and the first part
Of his adult life. I also struggled to know its dates and places of
Birth and death. Coming from nowhere and going somewhere, Gualdi
Would he have escaped from the archive ?

some where there are stories of Germain and Cagliostro pretending to be him
If truly a Rosicrucian then he is not a Fraud

He also had power to stop the Inquisitor
which back then is no small feat

Schmuldvich
08-20-2017, 06:29 AM
Hi Kibric (and all who copy/paste), this site is great for removing line-breaks so the text is not as broken and more legible: https://www.textfixer.com/tools/remove-line-breaks.php

Hope this helps!

Kibric
08-20-2017, 06:45 AM
Thanks:p

solomon levi
09-02-2017, 04:19 PM
"In physics, a phonon is a collective excitation in a periodic, elastic arrangement of atoms or molecules in condensed matter, like solids and some liquids. Often designated a quasiparticle, it represents an excited state in the quantum mechanical quantization of the modes of vibrations of elastic structures of interacting particles.
Phonons play a major role in many of the physical properties of condensed matter, like thermal conductivity and electrical conductivity. The study of phonons is an important part of condensed matter physics.
The concept of phonons was introduced in 1932 by Soviet physicist Igor Tamm. The name phonon comes from the Greek word φωνή (phonē), which translates to sound or voice because long-wavelength phonons GIVE RISE TO SOUND. Shorter-wavelength higher-frequency phonons are responsible for the majority of the thermal capacity of solids.
A phonon is a quantum mechanical description of an elementary vibrational motion in which a lattice of atoms or molecules uniformly oscillates at a single frequency. In classical mechanics this designates a normal mode of vibration. Normal modes are important because any arbitrary lattice vibration can be considered to be a superposition of these elementary vibration modes (cf. Fourier analysis). While normal modes are wave-like phenomena in classical mechanics, phonons have particle-like properties too, in a way related to the wave–particle duality of quantum mechanics."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonon

"The conversion of one element (specifically one isotope) to another through a dimensional reaction occurs under select conditions of phonon resonance. Dimensional phonon resonance occurs when the space occupied by one isotope is exactly the same as that of another isotope in its rest state. This event only occur under the following two conditions: the expansion of an isotope by heating; or, the contraction of an isotope by cooling."
http://rexresearch.com/champion/champion.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX2P8utjk3A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4kGmrun6xQ