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solomon levi
08-14-2017, 11:30 PM
Alchemy is everything. Alchemy is not a part of the whole, but is the whole.
Alchemy applies to the Creation of universes, to mind/Hermes/Thoth/Thought/Mercurius,
to spagyrics, to "true real alchemy", to philosophy, to dimensions and fractals and trees of knowledge and life, to the evolution of stones, to the psychology of the ego, to the emanation of light, to space, time and consciousness, to laboratory alchemy on absolutely anything, to magic, to quantum physics, to church and to your labors, to dreams, to hallucinations...
Alchemy is the unfolding/folding of the one, which is everywhere you look and don't look.

If you ask me, i'd say it's about dimensions, and that that's all there is - dimensions within/out dimensions, within/out dimensions.... that is multiplication. Projection is "casting out Lucifer", casting out Adam and Eve, The Gehennical Fires of Judgement... when we judge, we cast out dimensionally - we say "that's not me" and project a dimension. Yes, it's obvious to see this applies to the mind, but isn't it just as obvious to see that it applies to everything? The human memorized identity history is a dimension - a closed, self-affirming loop - thoughts thinking about themselves as a thinker - ouroboros, Hermetically sealed flask/vase...
When you break this mirror of self-reflection, you can see Nature - the world as it is without your conditioned memory... you see the actual world instead of your knowledge/memory/imagery/projection of the world... you see the world without the mediation of thinking/memory/tree of knowledge - you see the living present world, the tree of life... a fountain that is ever virgin (of youth - zen beginner's mind, etc) - the fountain glyph of aries which is also the eye/Ayin of the dragon (dereksthai: "to see clearly"). This is how you see the path of alchemy... this is how you know directly what first matter is. And you can follow this root all the way through to its expression as gold metal, if you want. You can follow it anywhere. Nothing is impossible, because everything came from this impossibly in the same way that everything to come will come from it.
This is why alchemy is one thing. Because one thing is all there is. It doesn't mean there's only one right choice you can make and all the others are wrong.
- sa

Schmuldvich
08-15-2017, 01:02 AM
Alchemy is everything. Alchemy is not a part of the whole, but is the whole.

Alchemy applies to the Creation of universes, to mind/Hermes/Thoth/Thought/Mercurius, to spagyrics, to "true real alchemy", to philosophy, to dimensions and fractals and trees of knowledge and life, to the evolution of stones, to the psychology of the ego, to the emanation of light, to space, time and consciousness, to laboratory alchemy on absolutely anything, to magic, to quantum physics, to church and to your labors, to dreams, to hallucinations...

Alchemy is the unfolding/folding of the one, which is everywhere you look and don't look.

If you ask me, i'd say it's about dimensions, and that that's all there is - dimensions within/out dimensions, within/out dimensions.... that is multiplication.
Projection is "casting out Lucifer", casting out Adam and Eve, The Gehennical Fires of Judgement... when we judge, we cast out dimensionally - we say "that's not me" and project a dimension.
Yes, it's obvious to see this applies to the mind, but isn't it just as obvious to see that it applies to everything?
The human memorized identity history is a dimension - a closed, self-affirming loop - thoughts thinking about themselves as a thinker - ouroboros, Hermetically sealed flask/vase...

When you break this mirror of self-reflection, you can see Nature - the world as it is without your conditioned memory... you see the actual world instead of your knowledge/memory/imagery/projection of the world... you see the world without the mediation of thinking/memory/tree of knowledge - you see the living present world, the tree of life... a fountain that is ever virgin (of youth - zen beginner's mind, etc) - the fountain glyph of aries which is also the eye/Ayin of the dragon (dereksthai: "to see clearly").

This is how you see the path of alchemy... this is how you know directly what first matter is. And you can follow this root all the way through to its expression as gold metal, if you want. You can follow it anywhere.

Nothing is impossible, because everything came from this impossibly in the same way that everything to come will come from it.

This is why alchemy is one thing. Because one thing is all there is.
Preach!

I see so many people here exploring things like antimony, vitriol, sulphur, mercury, nitre, charcoal, ammonium, etc. and I'm not talking Philosophically but actual physical common sulphur(S), common mercury(HG), etc. It absolutely amazes me that these people cannot see past the elementary, superficial meanings of these words and view things with eyes of Sages.

Our Matter is One, and as all things were produced by the One word of One Being, so all things were produced from this One thing by adaptation!

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4902-The-Emerald-Tablet-What-Does-It-Mean

What is below is like that which is above, and what is above is like that which is below, to accomplish the miracles of One thing!

What could our Matter possibly be?

The Ancients say that nothing strange or foreign is to be added, so all those who are working on all these random substances are cruising down false paths...


I like how "An Explanation of the Natural Philosopher’s Tincture" puts it...







""An Explanation of the Natural Philosopher’s Tincture"" by Paracelsus, 1607

Theophrastus, in describing this our philosophical work and creation (which is nothing other than a small world, since in it appear the participation and similitude of all things), follows the same method as Moses in describing the creation of the Great World. For, before Moses treats of the matter, he enumerates the three principles which indistinctly lay therein, but which, by God, were distinctly developed from the same. So also does Theophrastus, for, before giving the matter of his work, he indicates that, although it is one thing, three things lie hidden in it. These must, by fire or water, be extracted, and again be united into one being and substance, according to Christ’s saying: “He who knoweth not to extract many things from one thing, the same knoweth also not to make one out of many”. Now, Theophrastus says: “The matter of the Tincture is One Thing that, by fire, has been extracted out of three”. This is to be understood as the general concensus of all philosophers. What Theophrastus here affirms, Geber also substantiates. There is one Stone, one Medicine, to “which we neither add, nor take from it, anything”.

Bernhardus says: “There is a single root from which the two Mercurial Substances and our whole work are extracted or made”.

Morienus says: “The first and principal substance of this thing is one, and out of it is one thing”.

Agadmon, in the Turba, testifies also: “Therefore dismiss all plurality, for Nature is content with one thing”, etc.

Hermes, a father of all philosophers, also says in his Tabula: “Even as all things have been born from one, by the mediation of One, so also all things have been born from this one thing, by adaptation”.

Hercules especially agrees with Theophrastus, saying: “This Magisterium proceeds from one root, which afterwards is expanded into several things, returning again to one”.

From all of which the Truth and foundation of this Art is apparent, for Truth is where there appears no contradiction.

Therefore also can false Alchemists be easily detected in this one point alone.

And since God Almighty Himself has created the whole great World, all Celestial, Animal, Vegetable, and Mineral Natures from one single thing and primeval root, how should Man be wiser than God, and for this work --- which, not less than the Great Outer World, contains within itself the seed and qualities of all creatures --- use more than one thing. For the said Art --- according to the testimony of Gerrariensis, Chap. 22 --- should imitate Nature.





Remember, paragraphs are your friend!

JDP
08-15-2017, 03:10 AM
Preach!

I see so many people here exploring things like antimony, vitriol, sulphur, mercury, nitre, charcoal, ammonium, etc. and I'm not talking Philosophically but actual physical common sulphur(S), common mercury(HG), etc. It absolutely amazes me that these people cannot see past the elementary, superficial meanings of these words and view things with eyes of Sages.

Our Matter is One, and as all things were produced by the One word of One Being, so all things were produced from this One thing by adaptation!

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4902-The-Emerald-Tablet-What-Does-It-Mean

What is below is like that which is above, and what is above is like that which is below, to accomplish the miracles of One thing!

What could our Matter possibly be?

The Ancients say that nothing strange or foreign is to be added, so all those who are working on all these random substances are cruising down false paths...


I like how "An Explanation of the Natural Philosopher’s Tincture" puts it...










Remember, paragraphs are your friend!

This is where we part company. As I have pointed out many times already, the whole "one matter only" claim is nothing but an obvious trap to fool what this type of MALICIOUS & ENVIOUS alchemists considered "unworthy" seekers into going into blind alleys by trying to make the Stone from single naturally occurring substances, without employing mixtures of any kind (which is what actually works, that's why this type of MALICIOUS & ENVIOUS alchemists want you to not go around trying any combinations of any substances whatsoever and therefore possibly being able to one day figure out the correct mixtures that give positive results by trial & error.) Even some of the texts that you cited above plainly contradict or clarify that it is not really "one matter only":

“The matter of the Tincture is One Thing that, by fire, has been extracted out of three”.

Morienus, despite some ambiguity, actually also says things like this in his dialogue with Prince Khalid Ibn Yazid:

"But that which prepares this body is blood, or virgin's milk, for it unites and joins all the various substances and properties into one body, it being only necessary to apply to them a gentle heat that long continues at the same degree, neither increasing nor decreasing."

(A Testament of Alchemy, edited & translated by Lee Stavenhagen, 1974. Page 37.)

And:

"The things in which the entire accomplishment of this operation consists are the red vapor, the yellow vapor, the white vapor, the green lion, ocher, the impurities of the dead and of the stones, blood, eudica, and foul earth."


(same scholarly edition of the dialogue, page 39.)

And:

"The whole key to accomplishment of this operation is in the fire, with which the minerals are prepared and the bad spirits held back, and with which the spirit and body are joined."

(ibid, page 47.)

And Bernard Trevisan actually said this, not what Suchten (who was apparently either fooled by the "one matter only" ruse or he himself used it to fool others into wasting time & money in hopeless attempts at making the Stone with just one substance) claims:

https://books.google.com/books?id=wskk9WKIjksC&pg=PA771&dq=%22dum+ex+duobus+unum+fiat%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJvYCBmdjVAhVJ2yYKHUUwDx8Q6AEIRjAE#v=on epage&q=%22dum%20ex%20duobus%20unum%20fiat%22&f=false


"Opus nostrum fit ex una radice et duabus substantiis mercurialibus crudis assumptis, ex minera tractis, puris et mundis, igne conjunctis amicitiae ut exigit ipsa materia, assidue coctis usque dum ex duobus unum fiat, in quo quidem uno corpus spiritus, & iste corpus facta sunt a commixtione."

Translation:

"Our work derives from one root (i.e. the metallic/mineral "root"), and from two mercurial substances taken crude from the mine, extracted pure and clean, with fire conjoined in friendship, as required by this matter, and continually cooked until from the two one thing is made, in which one is Body, Spirit; and this body is made from a mixture."

Awani
08-15-2017, 02:30 PM
This is where we part company. As I have pointed out many times already, the whole "one matter only" claim is nothing but an obvious trap to fool what this type of MALICIOUS & ENVIOUS alchemists considered "unworthy" seekers into going into blind alleys...

What does it help for you to point out that you have already pointed something out many times? And what does it help to call some people here (indirectly) malicious?

You could have simply written that you disagree and then posted the rest of your post as it stands. You may not know it, but this way of interacting is not constructive.

:p

zoas23
08-15-2017, 05:26 PM
What does it help for you to point out that you have already pointed something out many times? And what does it help to call some people here (indirectly) malicious?
You could have simply written that you disagree and then posted the rest of your post as it stands. You may not know it, but this way of interacting is not constructive.

I do not think that JDP is indirectly calling anyone here "malicious". The alleged "malignity" of those old alchemists is not "transferred" to other persons unless they know that it is a "false statement" and they are using it to mislead others.

There is a "controversy" if you read all the old texts:
a) Some of them clearly talk about a lot of things that have to be mixed as to create a special compound.
b) Some of them talk about mixing some things as to create "one thing".
c) Some others talk all the time about "one thing" and nothing should be added to this "one thing".

The idea of JDP is that those who wrote "c)" in the old times were malicious and envious (two expressions that are somehow typical to find in a few texts by old alchemists when they criticize other authors, not an invention of JDP)... and their intention was either to "sell books" or "mislead people as to make them stay away from the true ways" (JDP didn't invent this idea either... it is in several classic texts too).

The idea of JDP is that those who mention "one thing" are being deceived by ancient authors who were malicious and provided fantasies instead of realities. I don't see that this alleged "malignity" is transferred to the readers of those authors.

Other than that... I am 100% sure that it is possible to work with a compound and arrive to the desired end... so JDP is not wrong.
BUT it is possible to work with "one thing" and arrive to the desired end too (even if JDP believes that such thing is simply not possible... and quite often his explanations of why it is not possible show that he doesn't really understand what such thing means).

The "malicious" theory is perfectly valid (actually it is possible to find it in many old texts... JDP is not saying something "new", nor using an expression coined by himself).

The REAL problem is that probably 100% of the persons in this forum already know the position of JDP and it is perfectly clear.
So it is not possible to talk about "one thing" paths without ending up in a discussion with JDP about if such thing is valid or not... and when it happens in a recurrent way, it becomes disturbing.

I told JDP about it a long time ago by giving a personal example: the "enlightenment" that ayahuasca or other similar psychedelics provide is IN MY OPINION pure bullshit (I am using a harsh word on purpose). There are several threads in this forum about ayahuasca and psychedelics... and I know I am not interested in such thing (which is fine... we all enjoy different paths... I remember that some time ago I used a song as to express my frustration with JDP interrupting a conversation and JDP replied with a song called "there's only one way to rock" or something along those lines... by a hard rock band... the first thing that came to my mind was: "How horrible is hard rock!!!! I don't get how is it possible for some people to listen to this music").

The problem is that JDP has made his point a thousand times... and everyone knows his point. So when a thread is clearly about a "one thing" path, it is always impossible to go on with it.

You often create threads about ayahuasca. If I decided to get into EVERY thread about it as to offer my opinion and bring points such as "Oh, Swedenborg and Blake didn't use ayahuasca! There are no records of ayahuasca in the writings of Paracelsus either. This is wrong" and I do it again and again.... at some given point you'll probably feel the need to say: "Oh, zoas... can you please fuck off and shut up your mouth! You are honestly pissing me off".

So... in the same way that it is VERY CLEAR which threads are about "ayahuasca", it is also very clear which threads are about a "one thing" path.
I would like to invite JDP to abstain himself to post in those very specific threads (in the same way that I abstain myself to comment the "ayahuasca" threads, because I have nothing of interest to offer to the ayahuasca enthusiasts).

It is not even the way of saying things, but the constant interruption. The threads which are clearly discussing a "one thing" path are VERY easy to identify.
Such thing doesn't mean that it is not possible to discuss "one thing" vs. "many things" in other threads (i.e, a thread discussing a specific book or author)... or create threads about "compound paths".
I think it is more productive if we all can co-exist. Sometimes such thing means "not posting" when your post is obviously going to interrupt the flow of the thread (If I posted in every thread about ayahuasca just to state that I don't like ayahuasca... at some given point you would plan a trip to murder me and bury me in Tierra Santa next to a Jesus made with plastic and plaster).

Andro
08-15-2017, 06:15 PM
What Zoas said above. Read attentively.

Please implement those recommendations, effective immediately.

I am speaking for the entire forum team (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showgroups.php) here.

One way or another, there will be no need to repeat what Zoas posted above.

If such disturbances continue, we will sadly have to part ways.

Emphasis on sadly.

Please do not reply to this post. It is not up for debate.

Thanks.

Schmuldvich
08-15-2017, 06:17 PM
Alchemy is everything. Alchemy is not a part of the whole, but is the whole.
Alchemy applies to the Creation of universes, to mind/Hermes/Thoth/Thought/Mercurius,
to spagyrics, to "true real alchemy", to philosophy, to dimensions and fractals and trees of knowledge and life, to the evolution of stones, to the psychology of the ego, to the emanation of light, to space, time and consciousness, to laboratory alchemy on absolutely anything, to magic, to quantum physics, to church and to your labors, to dreams, to hallucinations...
Alchemy is the unfolding/folding of the one, which is everywhere you look and don't look.

What inspired you to write these musings, solomon levi?

And why do you sign your name/initials the end of your posts? :confused:




The REAL problem is that probably 100% of the persons in this forum already know the position of JDP and it is perfectly clear.
So it is not possible to talk about "one thing" paths without ending up in a discussion with JDP about if such thing is valid or not... and when it happens in a recurrent way, it becomes disturbing.

I told JDP about it a long time ago by giving a personal example: the "enlightenment" that ayahuasca or other similar psychedelics provide is IN MY OPINION pure bullshit (I am using a harsh word on purpose). There are several threads in this forum about ayahuasca and psychedelics... and I know I am not interested in such thing (which is fine... we all enjoy different paths... I remember that some time ago I used a song as to express my frustration with JDP interrupting a conversation and JDP replied with a song called "there's only one way to rock" or something along those lines... by a hard rock band... the first thing that came to my mind was: "How horrible is hard rock!!!! I don't get how is it possible for some people to listen to this music").

The problem is that JDP has made his point a thousand times... and everyone knows his point. So when a thread is clearly about a "one thing" path, it is always impossible to go on with it.

You often create threads about ayahuasca. If I decided to get into EVERY thread about it as to offer my opinion and bring points such as "Oh, Swedenborg and Blake didn't use ayahuasca! There are no records of ayahuasca in the writings of Paracelsus either. This is wrong" and I do it again and again.... at some given point you'll probably feel the need to say: "Oh, zoas... can you please fuck off and shut up your mouth! You are honestly pissing me off".

So... in the same way that it is VERY CLEAR which threads are about "ayahuasca", it is also very clear which threads are about a "one thing" path.
I would like to invite JDP to abstain himself to post in those very specific threads (in the same way that I abstain myself to comment the "ayahuasca" threads, because I have nothing of interest to offer to the ayahuasca enthusiasts).

It is not even the way of saying things, but the constant interruption. The threads which are clearly discussing a "one thing" path are VERY easy to identify.
Such thing doesn't mean that it is not possible to discuss "one thing" vs. "many things" in other threads (i.e, a thread discussing a specific book or author)... or create threads about "compound paths".
I think it is more productive if we all can co-exist. Sometimes such thing means "not posting" when your post is obviously going to interrupt the flow of the thread (If I posted in every thread about ayahuasca just to state that I don't like ayahuasca... at some given point you would plan a trip to murder me and bury me in Tierra Santa next to a Jesus made with plastic and plaster).

Knowing I will be in the minority, and possibly the only one who feels this way, I am on the flip-side of the coin as you, zoas--I appreciate when AGAPDOTAJDP posts his counterarguments. It's not him just saying "ayahuasca sucks"... He actually addresses direct points of the "fallacy" that he sees, which opens up great discussion should one choose to take the bait and participate! This is an open message board where people are free to post their opinion, and I for one love hearing everyone's opinion, even if I've heard it a thousand times! We all know that Axis is going to post some super grounded logically rational post, we all know you are going to going to post some of the best posts here weaving philosophy into the subject somehow while providing references, we all know elixirmixer is going to talk out of his ass, we know Krisztian will share Truth should he ever decide to post, and we all know that AGAPDOTAJDP is going to defend what he believes to core, show why what we are posting is erroneous in his eyes, provide sources, and explain why it is a good idea to think like he does. I appreciate that, from each and every one of you. I truly do! It helps me grow, learn, and sharpen my blade.

What we choose to do with what our fellow members post is up to us. I love the "tone" of different users here; Kiorionis is understanding & loving, whereas AGAPDOTAJDP is direct and brash. Awani funny as hell and obviously doesn't take things very seriously, whereas Andro is poised and stoic. There is an "ignore" function for a reason, should things bother anyone too much, but that's what great about a message board...We get to hear so many different opinions and viewpoints that are different than ours! Don't like the title or subject of a thread, don't click on it; don't like the post above you, don't respond to it; don't like the member at all, block him. Message boards and online forums are the best! I grew up on the internet interacting on message boards since I will 10 or 11 years old and the interactions have only affected my life positively!

:)

JDP
08-15-2017, 06:21 PM
I do not think that JDP is indirectly calling anyone here "malicious". The alleged "malignity" of those old alchemists is not "transferred" to other persons unless they know that it is a "false statement" and they are using it to mislead others.

There is a "controversy" if you read all the old texts:
a) Some of them clearly talk about a lot of things that have to be mixed as to create a special compound.
b) Some of them talk about mixing some things as to create "one thing".
c) Some others talk all the time about "one thing" and nothing should be added to this "one thing".

The idea of JDP is that those who wrote "c)" in the old times were malicious and envious (two expressions that are somehow typical to find in a few texts by old alchemists when they criticize other authors, not an invention of JDP)... and their intention was either to "sell books" or "mislead people as to make them stay away from the true ways" (JDP didn't invent this idea either... it is in several classic texts too).

The idea of JDP is that those who mention "one thing" are being deceived by ancient authors who were malicious and provided fantasies instead of realities. I don't see that this alleged "malignity" is transferred to the readers of those authors.

Other than that... I am 100% sure that it is possible to work with a compound and arrive to the desired end... so JDP is not wrong...

The "malicious" theory is perfectly valid (actually it is possible to find it in many old texts... JDP is not saying something "new", nor using an expression coined by himself).

Correct. It wasn't actually meant for the VICTIMS of the "one matter only" trap, but to those who purposefully used it to make those VICTIMS waste their time & money.


BUT it is possible to work with "one thing" and arrive to the desired end too (even if JDP believes that such thing is simply not possible... and quite often his explanations of why it is not possible show that he doesn't really understand what such thing means).

That's because you believe in unproven things like "Spiritus Mundi" supposedly being "real" (the odds are highly likely that you are just confusing some real substance with that HYPOTHETICAL "spirit", as it happened to many in the past who fell for this claim.) When I say that it is impossible to make the Stone with only one substance I mean REAL & TANGIBLE substances that everyone can actually get their hands on. This is what has been fooling many through the centuries thanks to the "one matter only" pushers. These old-timers weren't trying to "materialize" or "condense" some supposed "spirit" out of thin air (which in itself is another blind alley) but taking very real and tangible substances, like, say, mercury, or galena, or dung, or clay, etc. and then trying to make the Stone with it and nothing else. You will simply never see all the reactions the alchemists describe in their books by manipulating any single matter by itself. It's just not going to happen. The failures of countless seekers through the centuries who followed this approach pretty much say it all. Add to that the fact that modern (ordinary) chemists have also been submitting just about every naturally available substance to all manner of operations for more than 200 years in order to asses their compositions and characteristics, and they have stumbled upon none that displays all the series of reactions the alchemists describe, and the evidence is even more damning against the "one matter only" claims. It is simply naive to expect alchemical results by manipulating only one substance. It goes against the accumulated empirical experience of many centuries.


The REAL problem is that probably 100% of the persons in this forum already know the position of JDP and it is perfectly clear.
So it is not possible to talk about "one thing" paths without ending up in a discussion with JDP about if such thing is valid or not... and when it happens in a recurrent way, it becomes disturbing.

So what you would like is for this type of claim to go around unchallenged, so that more unwary seekers can fall into this death-trap and waste their time and money just like it happened to countless others in the past? The fact that you know what I think regarding this type of claim does not mean that everyone who might stumble upon it does. There is nothing wrong with an opposing view on any thread.


I told JDP about it a long time ago by giving a personal example: the "enlightenment" that ayahuasca or other similar psychedelics provide is IN MY OPINION pure bullshit (I am using a harsh word on purpose). There are several threads in this forum about ayahuasca and psychedelics... and I know I am not interested in such thing (which is fine... we all enjoy different paths... I remember that some time ago I used a song as to express my frustration with JDP interrupting a conversation

But you SHOULD oppose wrong claims when you see them. "Silence implies consent", as the saying goes. The difference, however, is that the "Ayahuasca" thing is not really hurting anyone. Yes, it is wrong, alchemy has nothing to do with that, but it is not really harming anyone, so naturally I am not as concerned about it. The "one matter only" thingy is. Some people are still actually wasting time & money in these attempts at making the Stone with only one substance.


and JDP replied with a song called "there's only one way to rock" or something along those lines... by a hard rock band... the first thing that came to my mind was: "How horrible is hard rock!!!! I don't get how is it possible for some people to listen to this music").

You didn't know who Sammy Hagar was until I posted that??? Strange, considering your posts show that you are familiar with rock music.


The problem is that JDP has made his point a thousand times... and everyone knows his point. So when a thread is clearly about a "one thing" path, it is always impossible to go on with it.

You know that because you are a regular, but plenty of people who waltz through some thread may not know it. Why are you so afraid others find out about opposition to this "one matter only" claim?


You often create threads about ayahuasca. If I decided to get into EVERY thread about it as to offer my opinion and bring points such as "Oh, Swedenborg and Blake didn't use ayahuasca! There are no records of ayahuasca in the writings of Paracelsus either. This is wrong" and I do it again and again.... at some given point you'll probably feel the need to say: "Oh, zoas... can you please fuck off and shut up your mouth! You are honestly pissing me off".

So... in the same way that it is VERY CLEAR which threads are about "ayahuasca", it is also very clear which threads are about a "one thing" path.
I would like to invite JDP to abstain himself to post in those very specific threads (in the same way that I abstain myself to comment the "ayahuasca" threads, because I have nothing of interest to offer to the ayahuasca enthusiasts).

It is not even the way of saying things, but the constant interruption. The threads which are clearly discussing a "one thing" path are VERY easy to identify.
Such thing doesn't mean that it is not possible to discuss "one thing" vs. "many things" in other threads (i.e, a thread discussing a specific book or author)... or create threads about "compound paths".
I think it is more productive if we all can co-exist. Sometimes such thing means "not posting" when your post is obviously going to interrupt the flow of the thread (If I posted in every thread about ayahuasca just to state that I don't like ayahuasca... at some given point you would plan a trip to murder me and bury me in Tierra Santa next to a Jesus made with plastic and plaster).

And by the way, this thread was not specifically about the "one matter only" claim either. Another poster brought it up. So naturally I felt compelled to oppose this ruse and not be silent about it.

JDP
08-15-2017, 06:27 PM
What inspired you to write these musings, solomon levi?

And why do you sign your name/initials the end of your posts? :confused:





Knowing I will be in the minority, and possibly the only one who feels this way, I am on the flip-side of the coin as you, zoas--I appreciate when AGAPDOTAJDP posts his counterarguments. It's not him just saying "ayahuasca sucks"... He actually addresses direct points of the "fallacy" that he sees, which opens up great discussion should one choose to take the bait and participate! This is an open message board where people are free to post their opinion, and I for one love hearing everyone's opinion, even if I've heard it a thousand times! We all know that Axis is going to post some super grounded logically rational post, we all know you are going to going to post some of the best posts here weaving philosophy into the subject somehow while providing references, we all know elixirmixer is going to talk out of his ass, we know Krisztian will share Truth should he ever decide to post, and we all know that AGAPDOTAJDP is going to defend what he believes to core, show why what we are posting is erroneous in his eyes, provide sources, and explain why it is a good idea to think like he does. I appreciate that, from each and every one of you. I truly do! It helps me grow, learn, and sharpen my blade.

What we choose to do with what our fellow members post is up to us. I love the "tone" of different users here; Kiorionis is understanding & loving, whereas AGAPDOTAJDP is direct and brash. Awani funny as hell and obviously doesn't take things very seriously, whereas Andro is poised and stoic. There is an "ignore" function for a reason, should things bother anyone too much, but that's what great about a message board...We get to hear so many different opinions and viewpoints that are different than ours! Don't like the title or subject of a thread, don't click on it; don't like the post above you, don't respond to it; don't like the member at all, block him. Message boards and online forums are the best! I grew up on the internet interacting on message boards since I will 10 or 11 years old and the interactions have only affected my life positively!

:)

Indeed, and I find it very amusing that, in this particular case, my post was in opposition to yours, yet you have no problem with it (in fact we have argued about this very same point in the past in other threads, and none of us got pissed off at each other.) It is zoas23 who actually appears to feel threatened by opposition to the things he believes and therefore wants to silence them.

Andro
08-15-2017, 06:36 PM
This is an open message board where people are free to post their opinion.

Of course it is. But what some forum members here systematically fail to understand, is that it's not about the WHAT, it's about the HOW...


we know Krisztian will share Truth should he ever decide to post

Who is 'we'?


don't like the post above you, don't respond to it

I think that's part of what Zoas was attempting to communicate, in his own words.

Don't like a post mentioning a Universal Spirit? Don't respond to it! :)

Schmuldvich
08-15-2017, 06:46 PM
Alchemy is everything. Alchemy is not a part of the whole, but is the whole. Alchemy is the unfolding/folding of the one, which is everywhere you look and don't look.

If you ask me, i'd say it's about dimensions, and that that's all there is - dimensions within/out dimensions, within/out dimensions.... that is multiplication. Projection is "casting out Lucifer", casting out Adam and Eve, The Gehennical Fires of Judgement...

Can you expound more on the "Projection" bit, solomon levi?

Do you view "casting out Lucifer" as metaphorical?

Is "casing out Adam and Eve" an allusion to part of the Great Work?

Could the "Gehennical Fires of Judgement" be spiritus mundi?




But what some forum members here systematically fail to understand, is that it's not about the WHAT, it's about the HOW...
Fuck that! This is not kindergarten, this is not some politically correct tolerant gathering, this is "Awani's Great Board Of Drivel & Misguided Fools"..errr....I mean "Alchemy Forums"! Posters should respond exactly HOW they want about WHAT they want. I do not want to be talked to like a child, nor do I want to be patronized by gentle speech. Quite the opposite actually; I want to be slapped in the face with opposing viewpoints and exposed to graphic realizations I would have never otherwise been exposed to!




Don't like a post mentioning a Universal Spirit? Don't respond to it!
Or....GROW, LEARN, SHARPEN YOUR BLADE, DEVELOP WISDOM, CULTIVATE YOUR MIND by discussing things with other members here. Or, as you suggest, simply don't respond. Ah, message boards; they're the best!!!

Awani
08-15-2017, 07:42 PM
But you SHOULD oppose wrong claims when you see them. "Silence implies consent", as the saying goes.

No, I don't think it does, only if one deems themselves as the keeper of Truth.

zoas23 posts Morrissey videos a lot in his posts. I personally don't like that music at all. I think this might be the first time I state this publically. I don't think my silence in this matter has implied I like Morrissey. Maybe bad example as it concerns taste... still... if one wants to oppose wrong claims there are two ways to do it: as a bully or with tenderness


Some people are still actually wasting time & money in these attempts at making the Stone with only one substance.

Then place that in your signature, which is helpful because then you don't have to repeat it constantly. See my own tag line below: Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


The difference, however, is that the "Ayahuasca" thing is not really hurting anyone.

Damn straight, quite the opposite... if you join the party that is. Wink wink.

I personally have started to love hearing people dislike psychedelics, or place little value on it... because to me that is super hilarious... those in the know (that have travelled the distance), know what I mean. LOL.

:p

zoas23
08-15-2017, 07:52 PM
Correct. It wasn't actually meant for the VICTIMS of the "one matter only" trap, but to those who purposefully used it to make those VICTIMS waste their time & money.

Yes, your intentions are clear.
Have in mind that several persons in this forum actually work many paths and one of them involves ONE substance only. I know all the reasons that make you dislike the idea, why you think it is wrong, etc.
The problem with such thing is that we can't have a damn thread about it without you explaining that it's "wrong". So even if your intentions are GOOD, you are disturbing.
I have no problems if you create a thread titled "The bulllshit of the one thing idea"... awesome.
But when it is impossible to have a single thread that doesn't finish with an endless discussion with you, then that's a problem.


That's because you believe in unproven things like "Spiritus Mundi" supposedly being "real" (the odds are highly likely that you are just confusing some real substance with that HYPOTHETICAL "spirit", as it happened to many in the past who fell for this claim.) When I say that it is impossible to make the Stone with only one substance I mean REAL & TANGIBLE substances that everyone can actually get their hands on. This is what has been fooling many through the centuries thanks to the "one matter only" pushers. These old-timers weren't trying to "materialize" or "condense" some supposed "spirit" out of thin air (which in itself is another blind alley) but taking very real and tangible substances, like, say, mercury, or galena, or dung, or clay, etc. and then trying to make the Stone with it and nothing else. You will simply never see all the reactions the alchemists describe in their books by manipulating any single matter by itself. It's just not going to happen. The failures of countless seekers through the centuries who followed this approach pretty much say it all. Add to that the fact that modern (ordinary) chemists have also been submitting just about every naturally available substance to all manner of operations for more than 200 years in order to asses their compositions and characteristics, and they have stumbled upon none that displays all the series of reactions the alchemists describe, and the evidence is even more damning against the "one matter only" claims. It is simply naive to expect alchemical results by manipulating only one substance. It goes against the accumulated empirical experience of many centuries.

EXCELLENT! Create a thread about it and I am fine with discussing it, I really have no problems (nor I think ANYONE will). I am simply suggesting you to let the ones who work with the Spirit talk in peace in some specific threads. Is that too much to ask?


So what you would like is for this type of claim to go around unchallenged, so that more unwary seekers can fall into this death-trap and waste their time and money just like it happened to countless others in the past? The fact that you know what I think regarding this type of claim does not mean that everyone who might stumble upon it does. There is nothing wrong with an opposing view on any thread.

I'll go back to my Ayahuasca example... if I get into every damn thread about Ayahuasca as to give my opinion... I guess that the ones who REALLY want to talk about Ayahuasca will end up being disturbed. I do not have the intention of making a campaign against ayahuasca, but if I had that intention, maybe I should create a thread titled: "Why Ayahuasca won't enlighten you"... and I can discuss THERE my views without interfering in the threads were the ayahuasca enthusiasts talk about their interests.


But you SHOULD oppose wrong claims when you see them. "Silence implies consent", as the saying goes. The difference, however, is that the "Ayahuasca" thing is not really hurting anyone. Yes, it is wrong, alchemy has nothing to do with that, but it is not really harming anyone, so naturally I am not as concerned about it. The "one matter only" thingy is. Some people are still actually wasting time & money in these attempts at making the Stone with only one substance.

To be honest, if someone was posting a path that will certainly cause deaths or injuries... I don't know, a path that proposes drinking ordinary mercury to purify the soul (I'm just inventing something stupid)... then in that case silence doesn't simply imply consent, it's even criminal.... and it's even a duty to tell the person making the thread: "Are you insane? You are going to end up dead, Mercury is toxic because of X and X reason... please, everyone, this is not alchemy, this is idiocy".
The one matter only won't kill anyone... so CAN YOU PLEASE STOP INTERRUPTING EVERY THREAD ABOUT IT?
You can even create a thread about such thing and discuss your ideas there... I am perfectly fine with such thing. Same thing that dismissing the "one thing" theory in a thread that is more "general" is perfectly fine (i.e, maybe someone creates a thread about Geber and says that Geber worked with one thing only... it would be OK to bring the infamous blue quotes and show all the books that make such claim impossible to sustain).
I often disagree with you, but I know you are not stupid at all.


You didn't know who Sammy Hagar was until I posted that??? Strange, considering your posts show that you are familiar with rock music.

You can make an exception with Hard Rock & Heavy Metal... I just saw that he had something to do with Van Halen... I can't tell the difference between a song by Van Halen and a song by Led Zeppelin and a song by Aerosmith. I'm not into THAT kind of music at all.


You know that because you are a regular, but plenty of people who waltz through some thread may not know it. Why are you so afraid others find out about opposition to this "one matter only" claim?

I have ZERO problems with the opposition to the one matter only path... I do have a problem when it is impossible to have a single thread that doesn't finish with an endless argument with you.
LOL... Ever lived with several cats? If you did, then you may have noticed that they have zones of interaction and "special zones" in which they won't let other cats get into... but they are peaceful, they simply have these rules as to avoid conflict. The "special zone" is quite small, whilst the zone of interaction is almost the whole house. So it is a matter of respect.


And by the way, this thread was not specifically about the "one matter only" claim either. Another poster brought it up. So naturally I felt compelled to oppose this ruse and not be silent about it.


This is why alchemy is one thing. Because one thing is all there is. It doesn't mean there's only one right choice you can make and all the others are wrong. - sa

You are a lot of things, JDP... but stupid is not one of them. What was this thread about, JDP?

And the question itself brings the problem... this thread was about a view that Solom has... and now it is, just like many other threads, about "what JDP understands as alchemy"... Do you see the problem?
Awani suggested "good manners"... I don't think it is a matter of how you say things, but interrupting every damn thread makes the forum by far less enjoyable to a LOT of persons... even if you write with delicate velvet gloves. So it is a matter of respect.
AND you can always create a fantastic "Why the one thing idea is bullshit" thread... and I doubt ANYONE will have a problem with such thing (and I would be fine in participating there if you desire to counter arguments).


zoas23 posts Morrissey videos a lot in his posts. I personally don't like that music at all. I think this might be the first time I state this publically. I don't think my silence in this matter has implied I like Morrissey.

Criticizing ayahuasca, the one thing idea, religion, etc... is one thing.
But criticizing Morrissey... that's simply not acceptable in any context Awani! :p

JDP
08-15-2017, 08:21 PM
Yes, your intentions are clear.
Have in mind that several persons in this forum actually work many paths and one of them involves ONE substance only. I know all the reasons that make you dislike the idea, why you think it is wrong, etc.
The problem with such thing is that we can't have a damn thread about it without you explaining that it's "wrong". So even if your intentions are GOOD, you are disturbing.
I have no problems if you create a thread titled "The bulllshit of the one thing idea"... awesome.
But when it is impossible to have a single thread that doesn't finish with an endless discussion with you, then that's a problem.

It seems that you are not familiar with how public forums should work. If you only want like-minded people participating in a particular thread, then make it a private one, not a public one where anyone has access to. By making it public you are openly inviting ANYONE to participate, and NOWHERE is it written that dissenting views should be barred from public threads. Again, only if you somehow feel threatened by views different than your own should you really be bothered by opposing arguments. I don't mind when people come around and tell me that they actually believe that "one matter only" should work, but I will respond to their claims with counter-arguments.


To be honest, if someone was posting a path that will certainly cause deaths or injuries... I don't know, a path that proposes drinking ordinary mercury to purify the soul (I'm just inventing something stupid)... then in that case silence doesn't simply imply consent, it's even criminal.... and it's even a duty to tell the person making the thread: "Are you insane? You are going to end up dead, Mercury is toxic because of X and X reason... please, everyone, this is not alchemy, this is idiocy".
The one matter only won't kill anyone... so CAN YOU PLEASE STOP INTERRUPTING EVERY THREAD ABOUT IT?

So you call wasting people's time & money "harmless"? Are you aware that the chief argument of "humanists" against alchemy (or rather what they thought "alchemy" was) was in fact that it tended to sooner or later send many people to the poorhouse? Does this famous engraving ring a bell?

http://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/dp/web-large/DP826009.jpg


You can make an exception with Hard Rock & Heavy Metal... I just saw that he had something to do with Van Halen... I can't tell the difference between a song by Van Halen and a song by Led Zeppelin and a song by Aerosmith. I'm not into THAT kind of music at all.

Then how come you seem familiar with Punk Rock?



You are a lot of things, JDP... but stupid is not one of them. What was this thread about, JDP?

Apparently you missed the fact that the original post is rather vague and contradictory, stating also things like "Alchemy is everything". The specific claim that the Stone is made from "one matter only" was actually brought up by Schmuldvich (who must have interpreted that the OP was actually trying to imply something regarding this), not the OP.

Schmuldvich
08-15-2017, 08:59 PM
It seems that you are not familiar with how public forums should work. If you only want like-minded people participating in a particular thread, then make it a private one, not a public one where anyone has access to. By making it public you are openly inviting ANYONE to participate, and NOWHERE is it written that dissenting views should be barred from public threads. Again, only if you somehow feel threatened by views different than your own should you really be bothered by opposing arguments.
Yes!!


Apparently you missed the fact that the original post is rather vague and contradictory, stating also things like "Alchemy is everything". The specific claim that the Stone is made from "one matter only" was actually brought up by Schmuldvich (who must have interpreted that the OP was actually trying to imply something regarding this), not the OP.
No...just spurring discussion (in my own way). I knew solomon levi hadn't a clue what he was talking about and was hoping you would jump in and provide the counter-argument to my claim. Everything went exactly to plan.


...I still would like to know explicitly what solomon levi was referring to with "casting out Lucifer", "casting out Adam and Eve", and "the Gehennical Fires of Judgement". He asserts these all have something to do with Projection, whereas I believe these things have very little to do with our Projection and are truly descriptive metaphors describing certain Steps of our Great Work.

JDP
08-15-2017, 09:04 PM
Yes!!


No...just spurring discussion (in my own way). I knew solomon levi hadn't a clue what he was talking about and was hoping you would jump in and provide the counter-argument to my claim. Everything went exactly to plan.


...I still would like to know explicitly what solomon levi was referring to with "casting out Lucifer", "casting out Adam and Eve", and "the Gehennical Fires of Judgement". He asserts these all have something to do with Projection, whereas I believe these things have very little to do with our Projection and are truly descriptive metaphors describing certain Steps of our Great Work.

LOL! You are a very calculating person.

zoas23
08-15-2017, 09:11 PM
It seems that you are not familiar with how public forums should work.

They can work in many ways, JDP... but I guess that the best thing is when they work in a way that makes the communication become interesting for the persons who participate.


Again, only if you somehow feel threatened by views different than your own should you really be bothered by opposing arguments. I don't mind when people come around and tell me that they actually believe that "one matter only" should work, but I will respond to their claims with counter-arguments.

I do not feel threatened at all, JDP.... I think nobody feels that way.
I simply mean that your CONSTANT interruptions make every damn thread related to "one matter only" become an endless discussion with you... and the whole sense of the threads get lost. That's why I said that it is a matter of respect. I would really LOVE to talk about "one matter only" paths here, but I can't... and it is because of you.
Thus my suggestion to make your own thread with ALL the arguments you want and I would have ZERO problems in discussing with you there, it can even be VERY enjoyable (not just for me, but for a lot of persons).
There are a few threads, and honestly they are only a few, which are VERY easy to notice and which are about "one matter only". All I am saying is that you may concede us (us = the ones who are interested in that very specific path) the chance to talk without having to end up always in the SAME argument with you. I don't dislike your presence in the forum, it's just in the "on matter threads"... which always end up becoming a "let's talk about what JDP thinks" threads instead of what they were meant to be.


So you call wasting people's time & money "harmless"? Are you aware that the chief argument of "humanists" against alchemy (or rather what they thought "alchemy" was) was in fact that it tended to sooner or later send many people to the poorhouse? Does this famous engraving ring a bell?

http://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/dp/web-large/DP826009.jpg

Fantastic idea: make a thread about it and we'll discuss it there!


Then how come you seem familiar with Punk Rock?

LOL... you wanna talk about music????
I like old school punk rock, industrial (not really of the electronic type, nor of the metal type, but classical industrial), Free Jazz (I know someone who says that Jazz is un-alchemical), experimental music of many kinds, harsh noise (specially not electronic, though some electronic bands are OK), the early XX avant-garde chamber music... I love glam rock (though NOT "metal glam rock", I mean Roxy, N.Y. Dolls, T-Rex, etc)... I like composers like Cage, Nono, Stockhausen (yeah, I can like Cage and Stockhausen)... I like a few pop bands of the 50's and 60's (which are very very kitsch, but they make me smile... I mean singers like Little Peggy March or France Gall)... I like a few rockabilly and a few psychobilly bands... and I CAN'T listen to metal, rap and hard rock (if you want to torture me, just put a song by AC/DC).


Apparently you missed the fact that the original post is rather vague and contradictory, stating also things like "Alchemy is everything". The specific claim that the Stone is made from "one matter only" was actually brought up by Schmuldvich (who must have interpreted that the OP was actually trying to imply something regarding this), not the OP.

You know... some people have the weird privilege of being stupid and you have to explain them things as if they are idiots and can't read. I do respect you, JDP, so I won't give you the *privilege* of talking to you as if you were stupid, because you are not.

In short: I have no problems with "discussions" and "counter-arguments"... BUT there is a place for everything. When it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a single thread about "one matter only" paths because of... you, then that's a problem.

I don't like ORMUS at all... I do not visit the ORMUS forum as to explain in each thread why I don't like ORMUS... I think the ones who like ORMUS are fine without my views.
So it is a matter of respect. I do not mean that things can't be discussed, but when each thread becomes an endless argument with you that interferes with a communication that could otherwise be worthy to others, then that's a problem.

I refuse to talk to you as if you were stupid, I can't concede you that privilege.... and that's somehow a compliment, JDP.

JDP
08-16-2017, 03:16 AM
They can work in many ways, JDP... but I guess that the best thing is when they work in a way that makes the communication become interesting for the persons who participate.



I do not feel threatened at all, JDP.... I think nobody feels that way.
I simply mean that your CONSTANT interruptions make every damn thread related to "one matter only" become an endless discussion with you... and the whole sense of the threads get lost. That's why I said that it is a matter of respect. I would really LOVE to talk about "one matter only" paths here, but I can't... and it is because of you.
Thus my suggestion to make your own thread with ALL the arguments you want and I would have ZERO problems in discussing with you there, it can even be VERY enjoyable (not just for me, but for a lot of persons).
There are a few threads, and honestly they are only a few, which are VERY easy to notice and which are about "one matter only". All I am saying is that you may concede us (us = the ones who are interested in that very specific path) the chance to talk without having to end up always in the SAME argument with you. I don't dislike your presence in the forum, it's just in the "on matter threads"... which always end up becoming a "let's talk about what JDP thinks" threads instead of what they were meant to be.



Fantastic idea: make a thread about it and we'll discuss it there!



LOL... you wanna talk about music????
I like old school punk rock, industrial (not really of the electronic type, nor of the metal type, but classical industrial), Free Jazz (I know someone who says that Jazz is un-alchemical), experimental music of many kinds, harsh noise (specially not electronic, though some electronic bands are OK), the early XX avant-garde chamber music... I love glam rock (though NOT "metal glam rock", I mean Roxy, N.Y. Dolls, T-Rex, etc)... I like composers like Cage, Nono, Stockhausen (yeah, I can like Cage and Stockhausen)... I like a few pop bands of the 50's and 60's (which are very very kitsch, but they make me smile... I mean singers like Little Peggy March or France Gall)... I like a few rockabilly and a few psychobilly bands... and I CAN'T listen to metal, rap and hard rock (if you want to torture me, just put a song by AC/DC).



You know... some people have the weird privilege of being stupid and you have to explain them things as if they are idiots and can't read. I do respect you, JDP, so I won't give you the *privilege* of talking to you as if you were stupid, because you are not.

In short: I have no problems with "discussions" and "counter-arguments"... BUT there is a place for everything. When it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a single thread about "one matter only" paths because of... you, then that's a problem.

I don't like ORMUS at all... I do not visit the ORMUS forum as to explain in each thread why I don't like ORMUS... I think the ones who like ORMUS are fine without my views.
So it is a matter of respect. I do not mean that things can't be discussed, but when each thread becomes an endless argument with you that interferes with a communication that could otherwise be worthy to others, then that's a problem.

I refuse to talk to you as if you were stupid, I can't concede you that privilege.... and that's somehow a compliment, JDP.

YAWN! You saw Schmuldvich's reply to my comments regarding the vague meaning of the original post. That pretty much says it all. The OP's post was anything but clear or specific. You just want to interpret it like as if it was about the "one matter only" claim so you have a pretext to complain and try to silence opposing views. This is like the umptieth time that you have already complained about very normal things for a public forum that only seem to bother you and a couple of other people. Most of the forum seems to be fine with opposing views popping up here and there in any thread. It's part of being in a PUBLIC forum.

Regarding hard rock & metal: no, but I was just puzzled as to how someone can like punk rock and yet be bothered by hard rock or metal. In fact, most punks I have known LOVE hard rock bands like AC/DC, specially the old albums with Bon Scott. In fact, when AC/DC first came out many people thought they were "punk" (!), but to me they always sounded just hard rock.

zoas23
08-16-2017, 05:47 AM
YAWN! You saw Schmuldvich's reply to my comments regarding the vague meaning of the original post. That pretty much says it all. The OP's post was anything but clear or specific. You just want to interpret it like as if it was about the "one matter only" claim so you have a pretext to complain and try to silence opposing views. This is like the umptieth time that you have already complained about very normal things for a public forum that only seem to bother you and a couple of other people. Most of the forum seems to be fine with opposing views popping up here and there in any thread. It's part of being in a PUBLIC forum.

Again... I absolutely refuse to give you the weird privilege of talking to you as if you were stupid when you are obviously not.
This is not about silencing "opposing views", but about allowing some threads to exist beyond a discussion about what you think.
This isn't a PUBLIC forum actually, it's a private forum even if Awani has an idiosyncratic anarcho-collective-and-individualistic ideology... though that's not the point anyway.
You don't pop up here and there, but in every thread related in any way to the idea of "one matter only".
You know, you make a LOT of interesting comments in different threads... but when you interfere with a thread that is relevant to other persons and you manage to make it become a thread about you... that's not helping anyone.
And I do not mean that you CAN'T make comments against the idea of "one matter only", it would be absurd to say such thing... BUT you can create a thread about it (I honestly would have no problems in discussing the issue with you there, probably we BOTH can learn something)... or in other threads which offer a wider spectrum (i.e, a thread about the works by pseudo-Llull... which would certainly offer a chance to discuss the same issue in a different context and probably in a PRODUCTIVE way).
Other than that, I have ZERO problems with paths that use compounds... and I find some of them interesting (actually one of the most mind-blowing things I saw at the lab involved a compound, not a "one matter only").



Regarding hard rock & metal: no, but I was just puzzled as to how someone can like punk rock and yet be bothered by hard rock or metal. In fact, most punks I have known LOVE hard rock bands like AC/DC, specially the old albums with Bon Scott. In fact, when AC/DC first came out many people thought they were "punk" (!), but to me they always sounded just hard rock.

It is funny how some small comments make a few things obvious. I never asked myself where you are from, but now my guess is North American.
In the USA crossover (bands that play in a gray zone between punk and metal) is quite popular since the early 80's... Dirty Rotten Imbeciles, Corrosion of Conformity, Suicidal Tendencies, Agnostic Front, Biohazard, etc. Very few people listen to crossover outside the USA actually... I don't know the reasons, but probably because the punk scene and the metal scene are quite distant in other countries (there are some exceptions in the U.K., but the style is quite different.... I am thinking of Discharge or GBH).

I guess that I don't enjoy that kind of compound! :p Other compounds are nicer for me (Naked City with its hardcore-jazz is very enjoyable).

So, I guess the question is: how do we make the idea make sense to someone from the land of the free?
Your opposition to some ideas, specifically to the idea of "one matter only" is fine... BUT when having a peaceful thread about such subject is impossible, you are making the experience of the non-public forum by far less interesting to a lot of persons (why? because a thread about a specific subject is guaranteed to become a nightmare).

You have an amazing scholarity, you have very interesting comments to make, you have a LOT to offer that makes a lot of persons understand a few things better (I have no problems in stating that I have learnt from you many times... or even that I have asked you a few questions in private about texts and if what I had was a "complete version" or an "extracted version" and you gave me very accurate answers)... Are you able to be kind enough as to let some people talk in peace about a subject that you don't agree with and state your valid opposition in other threads as to avoid impeding the conversation?

JDP
08-16-2017, 07:03 AM
Again... I absolutely refuse to give you the weird privilege of talking to you as if you were stupid when you are obviously not.
This is not about silencing "opposing views", but about allowing some threads to exist beyond a discussion about what you think.
This isn't a PUBLIC forum actually, it's a private forum even if Awani has an idiosyncratic anarcho-collective-and-individualistic ideology... though that's not the point anyway.
You don't pop up here and there, but in every thread related in any way to the idea of "one matter only".
You know, you make a LOT of interesting comments in different threads... but when you interfere with a thread that is relevant to other persons and you manage to make it become a thread about you... that's not helping anyone.
And I do not mean that you CAN'T make comments against the idea of "one matter only", it would be absurd to say such thing... BUT you can create a thread about it (I honestly would have no problems in discussing the issue with you there, probably we BOTH can learn something)... or in other threads which offer a wider spectrum (i.e, a thread about the works by pseudo-Llull... which would certainly offer a chance to discuss the same issue in a different context and probably in a PRODUCTIVE way).
Other than that, I have ZERO problems with paths that use compounds... and I find some of them interesting (actually one of the most mind-blowing things I saw at the lab involved a compound, not a "one matter only").




It is funny how some small comments make a few things obvious. I never asked myself where you are from, but now my guess is North American.
In the USA crossover (bands that play in a gray zone between punk and metal) is quite popular since the early 80's... Dirty Rotten Imbeciles, Corrosion of Conformity, Suicidal Tendencies, Agnostic Front, Biohazard, etc. Very few people listen to crossover outside the USA actually... I don't know the reasons, but probably because the punk scene and the metal scene are quite distant in other countries (there are some exceptions in the U.K., but the style is quite different.... I am thinking of Discharge or GBH).

I guess that I don't enjoy that kind of compound! :p Other compounds are nicer for me (Naked City with its hardcore-jazz is very enjoyable).

So, I guess the question is: how do we make the idea make sense to someone from the land of the free?
Your opposition to some ideas, specifically to the idea of "one matter only" is fine... BUT when having a peaceful thread about such subject is impossible, you are making the experience of the non-public forum by far less interesting to a lot of persons (why? because a thread about a specific subject is guaranteed to become a nightmare).

You have an amazing scholarity, you have very interesting comments to make, you have a LOT to offer that makes a lot of persons understand a few things better (I have no problems in stating that I have learnt from you many times... or even that I have asked you a few questions in private about texts and if what I had was a "complete version" or an "extracted version" and you gave me very accurate answers)... Are you able to be kind enough as to let some people talk in peace about a subject that you don't agree with and state your valid opposition in other threads as to avoid impeding the conversation?

I don't know where you are getting the strange idea that these are not public forums. They are open to anyone, no special invitations are required, and even non-members (known as "guests") can freely read the threads. What you want is simply called "censorship". You don't want threads about a particular subject to have differing views and only like-minded people posting in them. That should not be acceptable in a public forum. If you want censorship then open a PRIVATE thread about any given subject. That way only those who are invited there can post.

There is also no need to go around making special threads about subjects that will naturally frequently pop up in already existing threads. The subject of how many substances were used by the alchemists to make the Stone will obviously be one of these recurring subjects that will show up in many threads. So I don't see why are you getting so riled up when it comes up and the typical debates/arguments ensue. It is only natural that this should happen. Not everyone agrees on all points.


Regarding punk & hard rock: that is not just the case in the US. I've known European punks, and I don't remember even one who did not like AC/DC, specially the albums with Bon Scott (the first singer, who had the voice of a heavy-smoking drunk at a bar fight. No punk I have ever known can resist the rock'n'rolling "kick-assness" of those early AC/DC records.)

solomon levi
08-16-2017, 11:21 PM
Hi Schmuldvich.
I was inspired to post this because some people believe there is only one right way to the Philosopher's stone,
which makes no sense if one understands what alchemy is.

I'm not sure if that's what you meant to ask me.
If you want to know where my musings come from, I learned how to "see"/perceive without the thinker/knowledge/past.
I unconditioned my mind from a lot of stuff the world gave me and told me, and started looking at the world directly for myself without pre-judice/bias.
When i did that my junk DNA memory began unfolding and speaking to me. :)

“I have been and still am a seeker, but I have ceased to question stars and books;
I have begun to listen to the teaching my blood whispers to me.” - Herman Hesse

Suspending memory suspends a dimension - the serpent stops swallowing its tail... the memory stops talking to itself as "the thinker"
and the witness or bare awareness/perception opens as another dimension.
Opening one dimension is like strumming a note and the octaves reverberate... one dimension makes one aware of other dimensions,
as all dimensions are relatively proportionally similar (90 degree angles).
When one stops being the personal history/memory line, then attention unfolds into the plane and one encompasses all lines.

Memory/knowledge projects itself onto the present if we do not make intentional efforts to suspend it.
So most people have no idea of the unconditioned present because they are full of knowledge/known/past.
Knowledge is a line - the present is a plane.
The present is psychological first matter and without it one cannot know/see the physical first matter...
one will only see one's thinking/memory/projections/conditioning.
This is why alchemy is revealed by God.
The most encompassing God is infinity.
Dimensions are infinite relative to each other (infinite lines in a plane, etc).

Infinity has no limit/definition... to speak of it makes one seem contradictory.
But for ages people have expressed it as a trinity/tri-unity.
I begin with one infinite no-thing (though there is no beginning).
The no-thing is consistently, homogeneously one same nothing everywhere (whereas something is conditioned by soul into variety).
From there the nothing became self-aware as "I am", and that self-awareness is an implosion/explosion/singularity...
a white hole/light, black hole/dark, singuarity... triunity.
The one no-thing had to become two/something in order to know itself as subject-object-relationship.
There's no knowledge in oneness - just being.
So that's the whole casting out Satan or Lucifer... adversary, opposition, complement.
The dimension of no-thing had to project a dimension of otherness/adversary, or something (which is light).
Adam and Eve is another dimension... the "garden"/"enclosure" which they get cast out of.

Dimensions are like a torus. so the singularity in the center "casts out" or projects (the jousting poles of the knights in Aurora Consurgens)
and that creates the vacuum on the other side/pole of the singularity.

hopefully i've answered your question :)