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Dragon's Tail
08-23-2017, 11:42 PM
Hi guys. Thanks again for having me on the forum. I've had an experience lately which has left me a bit enlightened, but even more perplexed.

Basically, it happened during the imbibing process. I was keeping my Salts warm in an incubated crucible, and they were drinking up Sulfur like crazy. Everything according to plan, from my basic understanding of the art. Problem was, I used to think the Mercury was in the ethanol, which had been distilled off after cohabations.

Note--I did not acquire my Sulfur in the "normal" way, it was prepared from a tincture by a new method I've been trying to perfect, which ends with an oily red liquid.

Anyway, I opened the crucible to find that my soaking salts had coalesced into a lump, like resin. I cooled it, and it became solid, maybe slightly waxy. The heat from my hand could melt it. Translucent dark red in color.

I'm being careful here, as I'm not sure how much is allowed on these forums, but if it's okay, I'm happy to share 90% of the procedure, parts of it are a little weird.

Anyway, this "stone" (which has moved into further experimental phases, so I don't have a pic, I don't think, I'll look in my phone later) exibits all the properties found in this article:

https://www.spagyria.com/plant_hyssop_stone.php

and the follow-up similarly matches his results so far. (It's going through a refinement phase now, not sure how that procedure will turn out, new ground for me) .. Actually, now that I'm re-reading it, the smell was changed during the cohabation process, and the once crude odor of red cedar was changed to a sweet, fruity smell that I can't quite place. Anyway.

Other experiments I've researched involve finishing the imbibing, and a slow putrefication of the material, and indeed I have one project now that is moving VERY slowly, prepared by a method closer to Stavish's. That's sort of my "control" experiment while I refine this new process.

My question is this: have you seen the result of working in the vegetable kingdom suddenly "gel" into a wax? I've seen both kinds of results in my reading, the sudden jelly-ball, and the putrification into a yellowish material. How would one know which is the "correct" result, or are there in fact two very different plant stones?

I haven't tried projection yet, but I ate a tiny amount of my stone, and it definitely had an effect when I was in the mindset for meditation. The sharpness hit my system, and I felt a noticable warmth in my blood, I also had a pretty intense meditation session, increased alertness, and some other side effects. My eyes have been bloodshot since I caught Lyme Disease (yes, I was treated for it) and the next morning after imbibing my "stone" they were much more clear than normal.

As I said, I'm still working with the other guy, and doing more experiments with the method. The current one involves a different type of cohabation, but I'm of the opinion now that the alcohol is just a solvent, and the Mercury is actually something I extracted from the fresh plant itself. Pretty sure there will be those who disagree, but I trust my eyes and my experience first, even if I'm open to other thoughts. There was likely some of my alcohol extract mixed into the Sulphur, so I could be wrong.

Hopefully this is in the correct location, and in the spirit of the Forum. I'm still new.

Schmuldvich
08-23-2017, 11:50 PM
I'm being careful here, as I'm not sure how much is allowed on these forums, but if it's okay, I'm happy to share 90% of the procedure, parts of it are a little weird.
Please share!

We love pictures here! :D

Dragon's Tail
08-24-2017, 12:30 AM
Please share!

We love pictures here! :D

Wow, just typed all this up and hit the wrong button. smh. Oh well, try again, hehe.
At the risk of being shunned for posting my heretical detractions from what I read in the texts, I will post my spagyric process. I couldn't find any pics.

Salts were calcined and purified ahead of time until all of the darkness was separated from the light, after many recrystallizations.

A tincture was made of the herb ahead of time also. Actually this whole thing started as a salt refining experiment solely to try some different techniques, which was quite an experience, and I burned up many, many pounds of plant matter, trying different things. But the details of my salt production is probably for another time.

The tincture was distilled several times, in an attempt to remove the darkness from the light (the crux of this experiment), but with limited success. The idea was to filter out all of that black tar through cohabation with some filtering mixed in at a crucial point. Well, needless to say, it wasn't working (though my current attempt at the same method is making some progress and teaching me new things). I decided to find a different way to "clean my tincture," and after some meditation, an "okay, try this" method left me with a low alc-content mixture that instantly showed a vibrance, and overnight changed from green to yellow. This liquid was cohabated and purified with much more success, resolving to a thick red oil. I thinned it slightly with its own Mercury, re-calcined my prepared salts, and then brought them down to incubation temp.

I imbibed until the mixture came to a glaze each time. Then I came back, repowdered as best I could, and imbibed again. The salts went to a light yellow, then a darker yellow, all the way to a dark red, getting a little sticker each time. One phase looked almost identical to the link I posted after powdering and crushing up.

After the final imbibition, I came back, and it was gelled up. Translucent little red puddle almost a cm thick. I pulled the crucible out and let it cool down a bit, and to my surprise scooped it out with no sticking. It felt like a soft lump of wax, and sort of crushed like one when squeezed. It started to melt almost immediately so I put it back in the crucible.

I've since done other work with most of it, but I cut a tiny piece away and ate it (sorry, I like the way that sounds), and I think the rest is already above.

Schmuldvich
08-24-2017, 04:12 AM
Very cool! Thank you for sharing!

Did you notice any effects when you ate it?

Dragon's Tail
08-24-2017, 04:39 AM
I'm glad you liked it. I wasn't expecting a warm reception of this, but I'm continuing with the experiments on this path of turning spagyrics into initiatic products.

I listed some above. I dissolved it in a small amount of water. That sensation you get from tasting sharp salts? I had that pretty much over the top half of my body. Felt super relaxed, but also energized. That part's a little hard to explain. Incredible focus for my meditation. I think it helped my bloodshot eye problem.

I didn't mention that the next day, I woke up earlier and was charged up all day. As a writer, motivation is a daily struggle, but no issues. I felt younger too, like I was in my twenties again. Back pain gone. And I still had that focus, got a lot of work done. I still have a tiny amount left, might try it again sometime. But when it dissolved, it still had some of the black tar that separated and settled to the bottom. I dissolved the big portion, filtered again, and it's waiting to be recrystallized. I might split the remainder in half, keeping half for me and calcining the other for testing to see if it passes the "first order stone" test. If it does, then I truly believe these can be made through very careful operation with minimal equipment. Using a simple distillation setup makes everything much easier, but I need a LOT more testing, probably at least another year with the process to be sure. There's also that little token of making sure that you have respect for the operation, and seek the blessings of the gods, or heaven, or whatever divinity you believe in. Most of my friends would laugh at that, but I firmly believe that intent played a big role in this.

Luxus
08-24-2017, 01:11 PM
My question is this: have you seen the result of working in the vegetable kingdom suddenly "gel" into a wax? I've seen both kinds of results in my reading, the sudden jelly-ball, and the putrification into a yellowish material. How would one know which is the "correct" result, or are there in fact two very different plant stones?


I have not experimented in the plant kingdom but my understanding is that a plant stone should be like wax. Just like other stones if it is a perfect blend of the four elements it should physically result in some medium between the four which will be waxy.

Not volatile like air but having a pungent smell about it, not hard and brittle like resin (earth) but neither liquid like water and is should still have the fire component or soul of the plant intact undamaged within, if not then it is just a dead thing with no vitality and other then what chemical actions it may have on the body it would not qualify as a plant stone.

Dragon's Tail
08-24-2017, 01:22 PM
Thank you Lux for the insight! Most of the plant stuff is fairly modern, and I've been spending much of my "reading" time in Jabir and the Emerald Tablet translations. Jabir is a wonderful read for me, but he doesn't really talk about plants much, and I'm always suspicious of post 1200ad texts. I read them, but I guess I'm suspicious of everything by my nature. I also have seen very few of the end results of the putrification and the yellow liquid stuff, unless it's done as a circulation resulting in a fluid dissolved elixir.

Luxus
08-24-2017, 01:50 PM
Years ago I was very interested in herbalism and still today take herbs, like to stay away from doctor if I can. I do believe plant stones if made correctly are better then standard herbal products, they are much more potent. Their are seven plant stones, one for the ray of each planet but if I were into making plant stones (I may try it at some point) it would be the eighth one I would be after, I think its Paracelsus who talked about it. It is composed of seven plants one for each planet and he said it was almost as good as the philosophers stone.

Dragon's Tail
08-24-2017, 02:24 PM
That's interesting. Combining plants in different measures have effects. One that I'm working with now, mullein, seems to have the power to boost other herbal medicines, and adds potency to them. I've also read of, can't remember the exact number, but I think 12 plants that were combined to make some kind of special elixir. The references mention a certain Roman or Greek, and you will find them in herb books. Something like "This is believed to be one of the 12 bla bla bla." I still need to work on my process though. The experiment I left running last night turned up new curiosities for me to ponder today while I work. I thought I had majorly failed on this one, but I kept the experiment running (it's been weeks now), the Sulphur has most definitely fused with the Mercury this time (there's no question, you only have to look at it and smell it). So well in fact, that I worry the balance is off, and will likely do several distillations to fix that problem. I think some salts are coming over as well, as there are tiny white flakes floating on the water of the sun.

z0 K
08-24-2017, 07:07 PM
I've had an experience lately which has left me a bit enlightened, but even more perplexed.


It appears from the description of your experiments that you have provided and the link reference to John Reid's work that you are making a version of a spagyric stone. Photos of the lab work really help to inform better comment about what you are doing.


Problem was, I used to think the Mercury was in the ethanol, which had been distilled off after cohabations.

By far most lab practioners these days still think Mercury was in the ethanol. That is the result of modern Spagyric teachings.


I'm being careful here, as I'm not sure how much is allowed on these forums, but if it's okay, I'm happy to share 90% of the procedure, parts of it are a little weird.

You can share what you feel like here; unless you have sworn some kind of oath of secrecy limiting your intellectual property rights.


Other experiments I've researched involve finishing the imbibing, and a slow putrefication of the material, and indeed I have one project now that is moving VERY slowly, prepared by a method closer to Stavish's. That's sort of my "control" experiment while I refine this new process.

Those processes you have been describing that involve imbibing of sulfur and mercury are spagyrical not alchemical in processing protocols. Study and experiment with Hollandus Vegetable work to see the difference.

Alchemical processes do not use alcohol for plant stones. Also the plant sulfur is not the essential oil steam distilled from the plant.

There are two types of alchemical plant magestries that produce two different "stones." One is organic and is hard like amber when cold and like wax when hot. The other type of alchemical plant stone is inorganic and forms large hard translucent polygonal crystals. That stone is hard and will resist the fire to over 1000F. Yet it melts quickly in water.


but I'm of the opinion now that the alcohol is just a solvent, and the Mercury is actually something I extracted from the fresh plant itself. Pretty sure there will be those who disagree, but I trust my eyes and my experience first, even if I'm open to other thoughts.

Alcohol is just a solvent and the plant Mercury is actually something you extract from the plant itself. Alcohol is used to extract a secret volatile salt used in the preparation of the universal menstrum. Always trust your experience and observations over those who disagree. They are free to follow whatever....

I think you are getting close to the entrance.

Dragon's Tail
08-24-2017, 10:18 PM
Thanks z0 K for your experience on this matter. There's so much wisdom in your post that I'll probably read through it a few times. Yes, spagyrics had me convinced that everyone thought alcohol was the Mercury, but every time I go back to my materials, I shake my head at the though. Even to the point a few months ago when I thought the whole Mercury thing was tripe. (the thought was soul and body vs. Merc/Sulp/Salt). I've similarly changed my mind about essential oil being the sulfur, but that revelation came much more recently. I've also found a salt in my experiments that reminds me of your words about a "secret volatile salt," but time will tell. Just the wording that you used sounds like it, but I didn't get mine using alcohol, so we'll see. I'm going to keep working at this path, but I feel I still have a long way to go. Thanks again.

Dragon's Tail
08-26-2017, 05:28 AM
http://i.imgur.com/UHzjEYU.jpg

Kinda testing to see if the image will work here. Kinda excited that something actually went as expected. This is the Mercury and sulfur for the current test, or possibly just the Mercury. Probably just the Mercury, the sulphur principal was red on the last plant, and the Mercury was white/clear. So many questions still but they will be answered through the course of experimentation, which is why I've derailed myself on this little journey into process and procedure.

Anyway, the yellow bonded with the clear, and distills with it (you can see some yellow in the distillate on the left) but it happened earlier than expected, and I added some distilled water at one phase of the experiment, so now it's carrying water with it. I was hoping I could concentrate it again through fractioned distillation, and it seems to be working. The "water of the sun" was always getting darker as there was less, even if the distillate was bright with color. The little puddles in the elbow were my indicator. The Idea is to find it's "proper" viscosity and concentration through repeated distillation and working with fractions. So from here the "white" will be run again, and the boiling flask leftovers added back to the yellow. Then we go round two, collect more "white," and repeat, until I've separated them as much as I can. They're fused, just "watered down" so I'm hoping this will correct, at least in a small part, for my mistake. And I'm sure it will as my solvent didn't do the best job possible of separating the plant. When I find a "better solvent," then hopefully it will make these little annoyances easier, but when working with eth, it isn't going to do the job perfect. After this, and the finalization of my stone experiment from the OP, which is next, I will begin my search for the SM of the plant kingdom. At this point I've made enough mistakes to know what qualities it should have, I think.

Picture is working now. To clarify. My theory is that the yellow is actually my plant Merc, but I have no idea why it's yellow. Last time it was very clear white and the smell changed. Maybe I just didn't damage it this time. The Sulphur fraction that made the last stone (which was "contaminated" with Mercury) is waiting to be separated in another flask. I don't have enough material from this plant to make salt, and the bugs took to the leaves after it went to seed. I may end up using another salt as a "body" for it to test if it makes a type of spagyric stone again. I have some left, just not sure how much salt I'm going to get, and my process is a little annoying. The body has to be cooked just right or I fear it won't make the "special salt." I actually have another experiment that I need to test and see if the volitile salt appeared. So many things to check, but I'm making progress, I think.

pierre
08-26-2017, 11:38 AM
Hi, Dragon's Tail.

I find your work very interesting.
Surely we will be glad to read your contributions.
I will be attentive to your posts.

Best regards.

Schmuldvich
08-26-2017, 01:08 PM
Neat work, Dragon's Tail!

Thank you for sharing!

Dragon's Tail
08-26-2017, 01:47 PM
Hi, Dragon's Tail.

I find your work very interesting.
Surely we will be glad to read your contributions.
I will be attentive to your posts.

Best regards.

Thanks. I'll probably be posting mostly in spagyrics for a while. I'd like to do a little step-by-step once I have my process hammered out more (I'll start a new thread). Just want to be very confident that the months of work involved with end with a nice finale, probably a spagyric confection of some sort. Part of me still says that I got very lucky with a lot of things on the last one, or that there was some divine interference to point me in the right direction.

I won't be giving away every detail, but there should be more than enough pictures and stuff that I think anyone who's serious about their lab work would be able to follow along. My metaphors are mostly my own, so I might use some weird symbolism from time to time. Making sense of all these lions and dragons is a little beyond me still at this point.

Dragon's Tail
08-26-2017, 01:50 PM
Neat work, Dragon's Tail!

Thank you for sharing!

You're welcome, glad it's keeping your interest. Did you notice (probably easier with the flask on the right) that there looks like a separation? It's an optical illusion that happens when they aren't filled very much, and it can be rather annoying if I'm looking for a floating oil, lol. Do you guys notice this in your round-bottom flasks too? It's a very convincing deception till I get about 1/4 full.

Schmuldvich
08-27-2017, 04:09 AM
You're welcome, glad it's keeping your interest. Did you notice (probably easier with the flask on the right) that there looks like a separation? It's an optical illusion that happens when they aren't filled very much, and it can be rather annoying if I'm looking for a floating oil, lol. Do you guys notice this in your round-bottom flasks too? It's a very convincing deception till I get about 1/4 full.
Totally! I know what you're talking about!

I use round bottom flasks too and notice the illusion as well.

Dragon's Tail
08-27-2017, 08:40 PM
I was inspired by a video z0 K made, and even though this one is a purely spagyric experiment with a stone, I decided that it's time to go ahead. This was my "stone" after washing in its own Mercury. I will now attempt to tease out the "white dragon" and trick him.

Setting up the cave of thorns to trap the white dragon:
http://i.imgur.com/5og6V3N.jpg"]http://i.imgur.com/5og6V3N.jpg

Provoking the dragon with heat:
http://i.imgur.com/VSMEMaS.jpg"]http://i.imgur.com/VSMEMaS.jpg

Schmuldvich
08-28-2017, 04:44 AM
Very nice! Looking good. What is your starting Matter? I am curious to see if that long setup works well for trapping your "white dragon". That 'T' joint setup is smart thinking!

theFool
08-28-2017, 08:27 AM
This is an excellent work! Most of us have worked with the "modern Spagyrics" methods and found out that something is missing. IMO a properly made plant stone is the same thing as the stone made from metals or minerals.

Probably you have already seen this thread:
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4138-The-Alchemical-Keys-to-Masonic-Ritual

It may give you ideas for what the Salt is.

Dragon's Tail
08-28-2017, 01:38 PM
I'll have to check into that article later, maybe tonight. For the most part I've discovered all of this so far through experimental trial and error, but it may shed some light on this mysterious volitile salt that I found in my preparations, even though they differ from some methods. I'm still timid about a full dry-distallation setup.

The starting material here was juniperus virginicum (not sure on the spelling and too lazy to look it up right now), aka Red Cedar. I used the needles and the berries. I have so much on my clot of dirt that needs to be clear, it seemed a good way to experiment with my processes in a way that I could gather enough material to actually do something with. My "salt" is in the red liquid, as stated, and this is as far as I think this experiment will go, but it will obviously take some time. I might find a way to heat the red very gently, like a heat lamp or something. The cave also includes that cardboard box ;) I thought it was clever.

Perhaps a million white dragons would have been a better description, and they will need to find their own way into my trap. I'll try to get some pictures later as this progresses. Hopefully we'll see a growing red crystal in the dragon's cave. Their abandoned bounty, and my rectified spagyric stone.

Dragon's Tail
08-29-2017, 02:51 PM
This is an excellent work! Most of us have worked with the "modern Spagyrics" methods and found out that something is missing. IMO a properly made plant stone is the same thing as the stone made from metals or minerals.

Probably you have already seen this thread:
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4138-The-Alchemical-Keys-to-Masonic-Ritual

It may give you ideas for what the Salt is.

Watched both of the videos and read through the thread. I'll have to read up on ORMUS one of these days as everyone seems to be fixated on it. My only concern with using this method on plants is the philosophical justification of using NaOH to tease out the salts. I worry that whatever is floating in that solution is a chemical precipitation, and also what the philosophical reasoning is for the NaOH. It didn't come from the material, or am I mistaken? While NaOH exists (technically) in aqueous of any type of ash-based solution (before the Na compounds are mostly removed by my personal method, I suppose I could keep these next time), I can't think of how NaOH actually concentrates in nature, and it's produced FROM the salts, not used to construct them. I could be totally wrong, just floating this thought. In any case, I don't think my little trixy volatile is the same as the one in the video, as it's prepared somehow by the salt acting on itself. It is always first to dissolve, but also first to attempt an escape if the fire is too hot.

theFool
08-29-2017, 03:12 PM
My only concern with using this method on plants is the philosophical justification of using NaOH to tease out the salts. I worry that whatever is floating in that solution is a chemical precipitation, and also what the philosophical reasoning is for the NaOH. It didn't come from the material, or am I mistaken? While NaOH exists (technically) in aqueous of any type of ash-based solution (before the Na compounds are mostly removed by my personal method, I suppose I could keep these next time), I can't think of how NaOH actually concentrates in nature, and it's produced FROM the salts, not used to construct them. The only reason he uses NaOH is to adjust the pH, the same could be done with other salts too. The operation is not important. What I found interesting is that there is a hidden salt inside the ash of the plant. The ways to extract it out of the ash may vary, maybe there is a method that does not require the usage of NaOH.

You say that you get a volatile salt. Have you been able to volatilize the whole amount of the calcined plant ash or only a small amount? From what you see, do you think it is possible ever to volatilize the whole amount?

According to chemistry most of the plant ash is potassium carbonate and sodium carbonate. Is it ever possible to volatilize these compounds? I doubt. What can volatilize must be another kind of salt, unknown to chemistry for the time being.

Dragon's Tail
08-30-2017, 03:58 AM
That's a question that is still up in the air for me, but plant ash should also contain a bunch of silica, if I'm not mistaken. I'm always a little astonished that it isn't mentioned more. The mass that's left over after leaching is mainly a mix of the silica, and the Calcium Carbonate. CaCO3 has a solubility in water of like .001mg/100mL or something like that. And glass.. well.

In my experiments with making lots of plant salts from cedar needles, I've moved away from doing anything with the dark salts. I leach the stuff that I want out, which could be 10% or less of the total ash. I could be wrong in doing this but if you calcine "the dark serpent" to a white powder, you will have CaO, which will react slowly with air, back into CaCO3. It's the concrete/cement process, and burnt lime is just as insoluble as it's cousin. My first "stone" long ago when I knew nothing was a tiny chunk of concrete, hehe, with some salt mixed in.

To answer your other question then, I think the remaining leeched salts, after purification, and carefully evaporated with very low heat, contain two salts, a fixed and a volatile. If the solution goes to a boil, some or all of that volitile salt will escape, and I'm not sure if my results would have been different without. So I have a LOT more testing still to do. I think I can isolate these volatiles a bit at a time. I'm not sure what they are, but from what I've seen they don't look very "salty." i.e. they aren't crystalline. Unfortunately I've never collected enough to test them for much, just a wipe of the finger where they appeared on the glass when the fire was a tad too hot. I don't recall if there was a sharp taste or not.

Anyway. After my other experiments, I'm convinced now that each herb/plant/etc may have two of each principal. The easy to procure Salt/Sulp/Merc includes both a common plant kingdom of each, and an essence specific to the herb itself. Which is the larger portion I don't know, and I haven't been able to isolate a "special sulphur" according to my process yet. But understand I'm not talking about CaCO3, essential oil, and alcohol when I mention this.

Procuring the finer salts might be a little tougher (i.e. dispensing with the other chlorides as well maybe), but they might also be representative of the whole plant kingdom, and thus serve as a purified corpus for the sulphur of ANY herb. I believe this to be true, but the herbal spagyricists might run me up a tree for saying that, hehe.

Dragon's Tail
08-30-2017, 04:05 AM
I think I missed one of your points. I have yet to find a substance that has the properties of that little volatile. I'm not sure, but I don't think it will deliquesce, yet it seems to be more solvable in water than potassium carbonate, which has my mind running circles. If you find it's trace on a glass, you can run a tiny bit of cool water on it, and it will dissolve INSTANTLY. I've read of no salt in a plant that exhibits this property.

theFool
08-30-2017, 07:46 AM
That's a question that is still up in the air for me, but plant ash should also contain a bunch of silica, if I'm not mistaken. I'm always a little astonished that it isn't mentioned more. The mass that's left over after leaching is mainly a mix of the silica, and the Calcium Carbonate. CaCO3 has a solubility in water of like .001mg/100mL or something like that. And glass.. well.. Right, the insoluble ingredients are not mentioned usually.


To answer your other question then, I think the remaining leeched salts, after purification, and carefully evaporated with very low heat, contain two salts, a fixed and a volatile. If the solution goes to a boil, some or all of that volitile salt will escape, and I'm not sure if my results would have been different without. This happens before or after calcination (or calcination is ommited)? It is peculiar for a salt to resist the fire of calcination but to become volatile when it meets the solvent. In my observations, alcohol was able to carry with it "over the helm" a salt from the ash. This salt follows the alcohol. It appears only when alcohol is left to evaporate slowly.

Dragon's Tail
08-30-2017, 12:51 PM
I actually noticed it after the leeching. I was breaking up the salt crystals and found it on the spoon when I pulled it out. After a couple cycles of gentle calcination (all that's needed I find), resolve and filter, and recrystallize, I was being more careful with my heat, and turned it up a little just to see. It was still there, and appeared on the glass. I suppose it's possible that it's K2CO3 and it just got a little "excited" and jumped out with the vapor, but I'm almost certain something else is going on. If you use heat to evaporate salts, and you notice a vapor, block it with anything. It will adhere to it. And you might want to turn your heat down ;)

Dragon's Tail
08-30-2017, 11:22 PM
Okay, so I was ready to button up the precursor for my next experiment, which I'm going to set up an experiment for. My "dragon cave" is taking it's time and that's cool. I think the best way to do that would actually be to dig a post hole, and then bury most of the fractioning column in the earth, with the mixture left out where the sun can warm it. That's not happening at the moment for a variety of reasons. If I do it in a friend's backyard their neighbors will be asking question, and at the property, some inquisitive armadillo will probably ruin it. I might see if I can find a heating pad or something.

The current experiments I have running are also to test this idea again, and it's been going well. I've secured what I'm sure is a Mercury and Sulphur from my Mullein. I was going to do the salts today. They were singed by burning off alcohol, but not burnt, and when the fire went out early, I capped them in a jar. I don't use this procedure anymore, but that was then. Anyway. I opened the jar today to start calcining, and the leftover plant matter was wet. It also smelled like it was fermenting. Not sure if because of residual alcohol or what, unless it caught some yeast bugs while it was cooling down. I'm now pondering the deeper meaning of using this "depleted body." I also have a pot of dried herb that I can use, or just say "salts are universal" and dip into my Cedar salt stash. Once I collaborate all of this information, I'll open a new thread for my bee-balm experiment.

Dragon's Tail
09-01-2017, 02:24 AM
I was going to start a new thread, but it's related to this one, basically verification of the experiment here by a different means. I'm going to be testing a lot of things, and I have 3 crucibles with purified salt coming down to incubation temp. I'll start the mixing tomorrow.

Here's the thing. I have a red oil, which I'm calling either the Sulphur or the Sulph/Merc matrix. A yellow (outlined above) that came over the still-head, volitile Sulphur or Mercury, or possible another matrix, as it was mixed really well with it's solvent (also from the plant plus maybe a little water), and I have the water that I collected which has done something a bit... odd.

I picked it up today to put it in a smaller bottle, and there was something floating in it. I don't have a picture, and it's so faint that I'm sure it won't show up if I try. But after the flask has been sitting for a while, it looks like a tiny wisp of smoke. Like a column of cigarette smoke, right in the middle. This product was distilled many, many times. Is there some kind of impurity that would cause this kind of thing to appear? I was going to toss this out, but figured I would keep it in case the yellow ended up needing a mixing buddy.

I've been reading up on construction of a "matrix" to "feed" with the salt, but I need to stick to my recipe for now. I'm testing the essence of this mullein herb with some salt saved from the cedar experiment, so in that regard, I'm using my extra salt to see if the salt is a universal body for plant products, which is my theory. Hopefully I'll have some pictures of at least one jelly-ball coming soon for you, and maybe 2.

I'm just really hung up on this wisp of smoke. Not sure if I should try to filter it out or lock it down in a special bottle, as people have been mentioning precipitating special things from their sacred "water." There's trace amounts of the yellow distillate in there as well, and it's possible some salts came over the helm, but they didn't show up in the condenser. Strange. Any ideas? Common things? Not so common things? Crazy theories? I welcome it all.

Dragon's Tail
09-02-2017, 08:05 PM
Little update on my progress:

I found a way to turn a lamp and some tinfoil into a little incubator. Trying to keep the cave of thorns progressing slowly enough, but showing some progress from day to day. So far nothing to report as I can't see through the dark, bloody-looking mixture. There is some yellow sediment in the bottom of the flask.

My follow-up to test the method is going a bit slower. I believe I had the incubator temp too low, and the salts started picking up water from the air. That's been fixed. They're at 57C now (and I added a thermometer, hehe. You might think that's too hot, and I did the first time. But too low and all I got was waxy lumps after the first imbibing, and the salts stopped drinking. They didn't form the little jelly-ball, which is what I'm trying to reproduce. I've lost some of my possible over-confidence, and I've become more humble in asking for the aid of the heavens in my work.

The "yellow" fluid obtained at the end of the distillation being imbibed the first time:
https://i.imgur.com/rISNIvM.jpg
This mixture didn't penetrate the salts as fast as the "red," but it's waxy paste has also better withstood the temperature change. It's still unpowderable.

The "red soul" from the tincture:
https://i.imgur.com/zeqTvQV.jpg
This shot was after the salts drinking their fill from the initial imbibing (after raising the temp). More drops were added, and the operation continues, resembling the initial experiment. I'm now wondering about changing the circulation in an attempt to remove the crudest feculence before imbibing, as I'm still having trouble purifying this liquid.

My salts have also been releasing a "fishy" smell at seemingly random times, so they maybe weren't calcined long enough. The productions in the incubator don't have it, but when I added some to a small glass of another soul product, the smell came out again. Anyone had experience with this?

Anyway, this project is about wrapped up, and I'm looking forward to starting with the bee-balm. I have a question about that, too. Sometimes in my tinctures I get a glittery precipitate suspended in the solution. Are these raw trace metals from the plant (has not had any heat, just the alcohol solution)? I tried to take a picture of the sparkles, but failed. May try again with a better camera later.

Schmuldvich
09-02-2017, 10:11 PM
Beautiful pictures, Dragon's Tail! Thank you for sharing!

Dragon's Tail
09-04-2017, 09:13 PM
Thanks, Schmuldvich (how is that pronounced, anyway? sh-MOLD-vic?)

I have a new one for you. This is kind of what we're after, though I have a feeling that the salts are still thirsty. Imbibing from this point should require only a drop or two. This is the red tincture. The yellow is not only lagging behind, but I might have to add some more salts. I didn't meter them out by weight, just looks, and I think that crucible got less than the other two. Since I haven't really used number 3, I can borrow from that one.

https://i.imgur.com/SQxKu1H.jpg

The waxy-ness disappears at this phase, but as the gel dries, it should again become like wax, and as this continues (I hope), we will see a change, and it will resist flowing (and getting residue on my hands) at higher temperatures (by adding more liquid, figure that one out, lol).

This is through a process of letting it drink completely to dryness, then powdering, then imbibing again and stirring things up a bit. It incubates, and the process starts over. Not the most efficient tactic probably, and I loose a little to the grinding, but fairly efficient if you have at least a gram of salts. Any less, and I think circulation is necessary rather than an option.

So, the new procedure without the water/color-change step produces something. I had a thought that the color changes in the original may have been due to nitrogen in the solution. I can't prove it, but the bee-balm experiment will attempt to figure this out, while trying to fix niter through a "natural" decay process of the herb, using a living fire gathered from nature. But more on that in a later thread.

To be as clear as possible, a standard ethanol tincture was made, the herb (plus a lot more plant material) was heated to a steam, then smoke followed, but no fire (I think this is important, it's like dry distillation, but I didn't condense the fumes). Alcohol was completely distilled off, and only distilled water used to loosen the syrup from the bottom of my flask. That fluid was then cohabated over and over, sometimes until only the black tar remained and it started to bubble. Then again. I strained the red "oil" several times through coffee filters while it was concentrated to separate as much darkness as possible, and then imbibed the salt by the process above. That was this little experiment in a nutshell... I just had to do it twice to get you a picture of the jelly.

The new mystery is this distilled substance that came over the distillation head as a thick yellow liquid, which seems to be working well enough on its own jelly ball. I'll post more pictures when it congeals. I believe this to be a more pure matrix than any amount of filtering could ever accomplish.

Anyway, that's it for now. I might start a thread about the beebalm here in a bit, but have some other matters to attend first.

Dragon's Tail
09-04-2017, 09:56 PM
Nevermind, I think I found my "sweet niter." That yellow stuff turned my pH paper orange. I have trouble differentiating the colors on that side, but somewhere between 3 and 5. I need to get a better pH tester one day. It doesn't smell like ammonia though, it's sweet, that's probably why I didn't bother to test it. It also doesn't fizz with the basic salts.

After my current project is finished, I should have some left, so I might test it on some metal shavings and see what it does. I need to find a way to fix it and get the nitrogen salts, as some of them may still be bound up in amino acids, but I want to use a "simple" method, cause that's kind of my thing. It must come from the plant.

This is all just theory though. I have no way to confirm or deny the presence of nitrogen, other than the fact that it looks like pee. :P

elixirmixer
09-05-2017, 09:43 AM
Your redness is a great sign; however, it is still very dark, which suggests a lot of remaining feces. May I suggest activated charcoal? Or eggwhites as Hollandus suggest (as a trick i believe)

Anyway. Good stuff! If you feel its a success, then it is :)

Dragon's Tail
09-05-2017, 07:54 PM
Your redness is a great sign; however, it is still very dark, which suggests a lot of remaining feces. May I suggest activated charcoal? Or eggwhites as Hollandus suggest (as a trick i believe)

Anyway. Good stuff! If you feel its a success, then it is :)

I'm working on this. The yellow is actually much cleaner, so depending on the results I get with that, we shall see. Washing the red fluid is a pain in the rear, filtering doesn't work, and someone here commented that the "internal feces" can only be removed after coagulation. In the literature, working with plants often involves several phases of progression. Even in my tinctures, I try to progress slower and see what I can learn each time, so I was expecting this darkness. The other one is still chilling in the dragon cave.

I think Hollandus is WAY more intricate than what is required, maybe to be sure that his son learned the steps without overlooking certain avenues? Maybe to confuse us? Not certain. I like your idea about charcoal, as it plays directly into something else I'm considering for the next project. The dragon cave is an attempt to purify through crystallization after this first part is achieved. The picture above isn't the product yet, and I plan to carry this out further than the last to see what happens.

I'm going to come up with a name for this that won't offend the "PS is the only stone" people, for now I'll call it the coagulation of the gross, as this is mostly a chemical progression. Maybe coagulation is well enough.

This coagulation will bleed if left in open air, and perhaps that can be used as a method of purification as well, as the subtle red doesn't like the black tar after combination with the salts, and it will run from it the first chance it gets. I don't think I'll be exploring Hollandus eggs though, unless someone can give me a hint there for a possible metaphor.

The method needs refinement, for sure. I've only discovered what I have so far through making mistakes and recognizing them. So, hoping to continue that trend. Last thought, if the black won't separate, then there may be some connection it has to the fluid, and it refuses to let go for a reason we haven't considered. Maybe it's the toad and the red is the eagle, and through rectification of both, we can let them form their holy union, ditch the chain, and join together. Just a thought.

Dragon's Tail
09-08-2017, 07:28 PM
I was hoping my next post in here would be the dragon cave, about half of the clear liquid has passed over, but there's still a long way to go.

However, I mentioned a color change and a smell change in the early posts on this thread. Well I found that smell again, from a different source. About the time I was messing with the salts and starting the tincture of red cedar, I set up something else too. I stuck some of the cedar needles into a large pickle jar, and capped it with a martini glass to make a kind of alembic. The fitting isn't exact, but it works. It was inside for several weeks at first, but last time I left the property, I left it outside. Well, that sweet smell is back, and I didn't have to cohabate anything.

Only a tiny amount of distilled water was added to the setup, and now there is a thick red fluid in the bottom that smells of that processed "Mercury" that I extracted from my tincture. Maybe something got in there and changed it (some common bacterium). The color change in the lab experiment came after adding water to the feces instead of pouring the alcohol back. This one evolved on it's own. But that smell. It's fruity and delightful, if not a tad strong, and it's in this vessel now. I don't think I mentioned this part of the experiment as I really wasn't expecting much from it. The fluid appears red, but more clear than what I got from the alcohol extract.

I should probably add that EVERY attempt I've made until this one to digest plant matter in one bottle has been a complete failure that ended with a smelly mess. A recent one with oregano was covered in wine vinegar after putrefying. No idea what I'm going to do with it, but this one made a red fluid with that sweet, sweet smell.
https://i.imgur.com/E1FWLrs.jpg

elixirmixer
09-08-2017, 10:47 PM
I'm on full time daddy mission and have been for the last week so my brain is just completely fried at the moment.

I still don't understand how you achieved a redness?

I achieve my redness using the alkali salts to split the cellular membranes of the plant and make it 'bleed', however it appear to me that you found another way to break down the cellular membranes (achieve the redness)

Mitocondria or necleaus, are my two ideas of where this redness comes from, im thinking nucleaus because thats where we store our DNA and there has to be lots of goodies in there, however, the other way im thinking is that it could be in the Mitocondria, the "animal" part of the plant... hense the red blood... who knows?? I can't wait to get a team of alchemists together to do all the hardcore chemistry involved in these kind of spagyrical works.

Cheers 4 sharing btw. :)

Dragon's Tail
09-09-2017, 05:53 PM
I'm on full time daddy mission and have been for the last week so my brain is just completely fried at the moment.

I still don't understand how you achieved a redness?


I'm actually going back to spagyric basics moving forward, partly because I'm out of "experiment slots" in the lab, hehe.

I'm not sure, but I don't think the redness is coming from the DNA. Breaking down those proteins requires very high heat. My boiling flask from the spagyric way probably never got over 120C even at dryness (maybe a tad higher), and I dare say this glass jar never got close. I'm interested in proteins because they contain nitrogen compounds.

I like your mention of "bleeding" the red. That's what the initial product I started this thread about did when I left a portion in open air, but the red color was already in the "oil" that I used. I think the "blood" was possibly a purer form, as the black stuff stayed behind with the spongey solid.

The red, from what I'm seeing and smelling, at least in my pursuits is developing through some putrefication. My little side experiment with the yellow and red fluids was through repeated cohabation and heating of the tar. The OP happened after mixing the tar and boiled down tincture with water (yellow evolved overnight, and changed to red when reduced). That glass albemic seemed to spontaneously trigger the reaction, even creating the same smell. And it was thick, like really thick. Not quite maple syrup. Maybe slightly thicker than fresh blood. I strained off about 200mL of the stuff from that tiny amount of plant matter. I don't have much in the way of equipment out here, and I didn't want to leave it sitting around, so I heated up the leftover matter, taking care not to let it catch fire, until it was an ash, and then dumped it straight into the glass. I figure I can sort it later, but most of the solution has become cloudy after sitting over night. The calcium carbonate and silicates (I assume) are sitting at the bottom, and there's a thin separation at the top. I only have internet out here for a couple of hours, but I'll get back to you on this with pictures when I return to civilization.

Dragon's Tail
09-17-2017, 01:18 AM
Pictures for you :P

Well, my little white dragons flew into the trap as expected. There's a bit of moisture that doesn't want to leave, but this isn't quite the result I was hoping for. It is kind of interesting looking. This flask was wrapped in foil and attached to the apparatus with a lamp on it for about a month.

I've let this greasy little black tar sit around for a bit. It has some interesting shapes and spines, but I thought nothing except fail when I first saw it:

https://i.imgur.com/AT8QQZ8.jpg

Then I noticed some of these tiny crystals in there...

https://i.imgur.com/7rBl8OG.jpg

Any thoughts on getting these out? Might be worth checking out? Or just try to scrape everything out?
I don't know, but I want my flask back, hehe. Sorry I couldn't get a better picture. These things are literally not much bigger than a human hair.