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Dragon's Tail
08-26-2017, 10:58 PM
Do you ever wonder about your lab, look at the experiments you have done, and wonder if the answers you seek are sitting there among them, right in front of your face? But the lab is the basement, it's the below, and so the same should be reflected above, in nature. Everything you need is right there. You can taste it with your senses, but for some reason it remains elusive.

So I will ponder the winds, and how the world bows to them, and the sun's fire that both burns and creates life, and how that fire is captured in the earth which is nourished by it, giving root to every living thing, and how that secret fire is in turn passed into the oceans and fog, and levitated back into the sky, and released back to the sky, to start the cycle again.

I was staring into the results of a spagyric tincture, and contemplating what qualities the vegetable solvent would demonstrate to me if I found it, as I realized a certain quality that it would need to have in addition to what I've already assigned to it.

Each of these reactions happens in my lab, separately and through a lot of mixing and moving, but if all of the powers combined, a secret fire would be produced that could create my tincture in a way that would bring light to the darkness, and show me the Mercury, Sulfur, and Salt, in their proper state, without all the normal mucking about I do in my lab.

More reading, will of course help, but later. Right now I'm going outside to absorb some of that solar energy, and reflect on the circulation of Apollo's fire. And listen carefully.

Lux Natura
08-27-2017, 03:40 PM
Darren Aronofsky's first film, Pi, covers it quite well I think.

The protagonist has an immense intellect as well as some powerful supecomputers, and is able to basically uncover the secret code which permeates all of nature and mankind. One company is after him for this code so they can make money off the stock market, and a bunch of Jewish scholars are after him so they can finally uncover the secret name of god that will bring on the messianic age.

One problem - the protagonist is missing the final piece of the puzzle, and in seeking for it, he experiences all sorts of setbacks, headaches, nightmares, etc.

It's not until the end, where the protagonist transcends his own intellect, and does away with all the calculations, logic, reasoning, as well as distancing himself from those who seek material or spiritual gain, that he is able to actually know and directly experience the truth of this revelation - and he learns to know it directly - not through the symbol making faculty of the intellect.

Ultimately gnosis cannot occur until the intellect is transcended. From the interplay of the shadows that are cast from the intellect and language making faculty, we can often piece together how we think something should be, but that can also form a trap. At first it's a filter or a sieve to put the pieces into place - to learn the patterns - but the patterns being learned are not of the macrocosm, but of the microcosm. Ideally yes, these two patterns should reflect each other - but in practice we see they more often lead to revelations of megalomania and narcissism than anything else.

Later on, the patterns become fixed and binding, and are a hindrance rather than an aid. The goal is to learn the rules so you can understand the interplay - and in doing so you recreate a reflection of the system of natural forces in the mind. Later though, the goal is to transcend this internal system.

I think we find this lots in those that are caught up in fundamentalism - citing sources and making quotations of how "so and so said that X means this, and so and so said that Y meant that" - they are finding historical evidence to support their own patterns within their mental filters.

Nature perfects the great work without intellect, starting from one material, one container, and one fundamental law. Everything else is done through recombination and adaptation.

I myself don't think we can recreate either the material or the container in the lab - but we we can recreate the fundamental law in a lesser way. Through the lesser recreation of the fundamental law, and using other materials and other containers, we can catch a glimpse into creation, so long as we do it outside the intellect.

Schmuldvich
08-27-2017, 06:14 PM
Very well written, Lux Natura!

Well put!

Dragon's Tail
08-27-2017, 08:52 PM
Wonderful, Lux Natura! I agree, and I have to constantly shut up the "scientific" part of my brain to make progress. It's nice as a check to ensure that I'm not going to poison myself, but other times I catch myself looking for chemical answers to spiritual things, and I'm sure that is not the path.

My walk outside prompted a new thought, not of the sun, but of the earth.
That a seed plants itself, and is nourished by the earth and the water,
and incubated by the sun.
It sprouts and takes form finding it's way to the light, so that through the nourishment of all four elements, it can grow and produce seed.
But after the production of it's most special contribution, which goes on to start the cycle again, light turns to dark, and nourishment to torment.
Leaves wilt and die, from green to yellow to red, and as the earth attacks what it once fed, finally to the black, which becomes the menstrum of the earth to nourish the next seed. Death nourishes life, and life feeds death.

I'm comparing and contrasting that last line to one of the opening lines of the Emerald Tablet. Anyway, this isn't meant to be a process or analogy to anything, this is simply my raw observation, that maybe I can learn from.

Luxus
08-29-2017, 10:17 AM
Darren Aronofsky's first film, Pi, covers it quite well I think.

The protagonist has an immense intellect as well as some powerful supecomputers, and is able to basically uncover the secret code which permeates all of nature and mankind. One company is after him for this code so they can make money off the stock market, and a bunch of Jewish scholars are after him so they can finally uncover the secret name of god that will bring on the messianic age.


The ineffable name is called so because whilst a human is capable of hearing it a human cannot utter it...why....because it is the sound of the ocean. That is assuming you seek the name of the one creator of all things. However what the Jews seek is the name of the planetary angel of Saturn which is their God, the God of the old testament. And any astrologer will inform you that it is a "malefic" entity!

theFool
08-29-2017, 11:17 AM
the planetary angel of Saturn which is their God, the God of the old testament. In your opinion, is this the same god that gives by revelation the keys to alchemy (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5356-The-chest-of-the-mysteries)? (just asking)

Luxus
08-29-2017, 12:26 PM
In your opinion, is this the same god that gives by revelation the keys to alchemy (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5356-The-chest-of-the-mysteries)? (just asking)

I think the entity who revealed alchemical secrets may have been the planetary angel of Venus, the morning star.

Zosimos of Panopolis believed the secrets of Alchemy were first revealed to man by the lower ranking angels, who were then punished for it afterwards.

In ancient times they had the astronomy of our solar system incorrect. They believed the highest of the planetary spheres was Saturn and therefore the throne of the most high god. They believed in ascending the planetary spheres in their merkabah chariot to meet their Saturn god who was seated on the highest throne.

Saturn however is the furthest away from the sun of the 7 planets so in reality they were descending the spheres to meet with their god in the lowest realm. The truth is this creature is a demonic entity whom the gnostics would have called the demiurge, a deceiver of men.

theFool
08-29-2017, 01:26 PM
Zosimos of Panopolis believed the secrets of Alchemy were first revealed to man by the lower ranking angels, who were then punished for it afterwards.
There is also the myth of Prometheus, who stole the fire from gods, gave it to humans and then he was punished.

In more modern alchemical writings we find that "Jehovah" is the god who keeps this knowledge. This is the Saturnian god of the old testament you talk about, right? (I'm not so good at religious studies).

Thanks for the reply.

Dragon's Tail
08-29-2017, 01:57 PM
Thought you guys were drifting a little, but perhaps you're better observers than I. The King James Bible is in most houses, and to study the stars, all one really has to do is look up. I prefer a scope and sometimes a camera, but all the same.

Saturn was probably deemed the highest, because of the 7 visible planets (using the original definition as it applies to the cosmos), Saturn tracks the slowest across the fixed celestial background. It doesn't move much from year to year. Jupiter is slightly faster, then Mars, etc. Mercury is elusive, appearing for only a handful of days at a time, and always with the Sun. Venus has the same habit but wanders farther from the golden orb. The Moon is in the center of the list, but of course the Moon and Sun seem to rule the sky as the largest (by arc angle and brightness), and even the ancients (I'm pretty sure the Egyptians, not so sure about other cultures) realized that it borrows it's light from the sun. The night sky of the ancients (especially around the new moon) was also very different from what most of us see. I recommend, if you get the chance, to observe it from somewhere truly dark.

Luxus
08-29-2017, 02:04 PM
There is also the myth of Prometheus, who stole the fire from gods, gave it to humans and then he was punished.

In more modern alchemical writings we find that "Jehovah" is the god who keeps this knowledge. This is the Saturnian god of the old testament you talk about, right? (I'm not so good at religious studies).

Thanks for the reply.

Yes the god of the old testament is in fact the planetary angel of Saturn.

Prometheus is probably the planetary angel of Venus, the stone was a jewel in his crown which fell to Earth.

Schmuldvich
08-29-2017, 06:36 PM
Yes the god of the old testament is in fact the planetary angel of Saturn.

Prometheus is probably the planetary angel of Venus, the stone was a jewel in his crown which fell to Earth.

Can you give more details or provide sources for further study of this? I had never heard this before.

Luxus
08-29-2017, 07:14 PM
http://whale.to/c/Ancient%20Cosmology2.jpg

In ancient times they thought the Earth was flat with seven sky domes above it. These domes they called heavens and in the highest seventh heaven was the throne of God. The way to meet God was to ascend the heavens in a fiery chariot merkabah (the astral body). When you get to the highest you meet the planetary angel of Saturn YHVH:

horticult
08-29-2017, 09:59 PM
lux egzactly like phial

Schmuldvich
08-29-2017, 10:28 PM
http://whale.to/c/Ancient%20Cosmology2.jpg


lux egzactly like phial
YES!!!

I thought I was the only one here seeing that! Even the "7 Earths" makes sense in context.

Reminds me of this picture...


http://i.imgur.com/cuzgfSv.jpg

Luxus
08-29-2017, 11:38 PM
That image is interesting,it reminded me of story's I have read about what happens when one first consumes the great elixir. He is transported to other worlds and sees things which exist in this world which others cant see with mortal eyes. I think many of the mythical creatures are real particularly dragons and fairy people

The seven Earths are actually the seven subterranean realms ancient people believed in. 7+7=14 or the 14 loka in Vedic teachings.

JDP
08-30-2017, 12:41 AM
I think many of the mythical creatures are real particularly dragons and fairy people


https://static.wixstatic.com/media/230a03_2fb8cced12774faf8ec0d83c2d863731~mv2.gif

Schmuldvich
08-30-2017, 01:41 AM
The seven Earths are actually the seven subterranean realms ancient people believed in. 7+7=14 or the 14 loka in Vedic teachings.
Neat! Thank you for sharing. The way I see it (again, seeing what I want to see of course), the 7 Earths represent our complete initial Preparation before encapsulating our Matter into its dome (flask).

In the image you posted we can see the "mountains" on the sides and beautiful "stars" above. We see the Seeker "piercing the veil" thus opening new doors to many new possibilities in the image I posted.

Dragon's Tail
08-30-2017, 03:37 AM
Unless they simply missed a planet (unlikely), wouldn't the "throne of God" be Jupiter?

Luxus
08-30-2017, 11:46 AM
JDP....Is it tea time already hahaha

Luxus
08-30-2017, 11:57 AM
Neat! Thank you for sharing. The way I see it (again, seeing what I want to see of course), the 7 Earths represent our complete initial Preparation before encapsulating our Matter into its dome (flask).

In the image you posted we can see the "mountains" on the sides and beautiful "stars" above. We see the Seeker "piercing the veil" thus opening new doors to many new possibilities in the image I posted.

I think you are seeing what you want to see in this case in regards the alchemists glass globe. But the guy looking outside the star dome, yes it probably represents someone escaping our reality.Now is that journey made in the physical body or is it the journey of the soul or astral body...alchemists frequently talk about taking the elixir and flying.

The concept of seven heavens and seven Earths goes all the way back to Sumer. Seven annunaki were in charge of heaven and seven were in the underworld or abzu. We live in middle Earth half way between.

Luxus
08-30-2017, 12:02 PM
Unless they simply missed a planet (unlikely), wouldn't the "throne of God" be Jupiter?

The order is usually given as below, Saturn they thought was the highest heaven. The ancient Greeks also thought Chronos (Saturn) ruled in the golden age only to be replaced by Zeus (Jupiter).

http://biologos.org/files/resources/aristotles-spheres.jpg

Dragon's Tail
08-30-2017, 01:09 PM
I like this one much better. I think the artist got a little carried away on the last diagram, and forgot to check the descriptions in the text (or was just reading the wrong book). The order makes sense. That's exactly how I would have arranged them if I was an astronomer in Ptolemy's day, or even before. Well. I might have some trouble placing the Sun. I'm surprised that many of these ancients didn't, as far as I know, tie Venus and at least Mercury to the solar movements directly. But then, that wouldn't make nice concentric spheres.

Sorry, that's just a tick of mine. I'm always looking at the designer more than the design. If you can get into his/her head, then any description or ordering or arranging things becomes more clear. For instance the states of matter that we ascribe commonly also overlap with the four elements of Euclid and Aristotle, while the Chinese have a different system. Some speculative physicists even put forth newer theories about how the matter table should be changed to account for subatomic particles. I have my own (element) table for how I view the progressions or states of matter. The division seems arbitrary when viewed from a metaphysical eye, but the subtle meaning of where those lines are placed is a construct of physical knowledge AND spiritual application.

Luxus
08-30-2017, 01:32 PM
In regards to Alchemy the planetary spheres has its analogy of the gates the matter must pass before it reaches perfection however the order of planets is often not the same.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/0139b24b0cf41dfa193c533a3d72f8d9/tumblr_mxaxrhNHew1s1fgejo1_400.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wCmnAzzC3vA/WGZwticD-fI/AAAAAAAByLw/wdERw8bEMAwqbHg8TnkFfjkm2iVlHsbRgCLcB/s1600/e140c497b45bc7dde339766b2da032f3.jpg