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Dragon's Tail
08-31-2017, 05:10 AM
At this point, it's become obscured in my memory where I came across this idea, but it is one that has stuck with me. If you search "well of souls," you're going to find a cave somewhere in Persia, I believe. But I was informed that Kabbalah practitioners have a different definition. Again, not certain of the text or origin, just what I was told, but the story itself is the important part, and I will try my best to do it justice as I understand it:

Some traditions believe that the life force of the whole universe penetrates and surrounds every living thing, and can be found in and around every matter. It's akin to a pool of water, known as the well of souls, where new bodies act as a vessel for the water of souls. When we are born, our vessel is filled with spirit from the well, and when we die, that vessel is emptied into the same pool, where it disperses like a drop of water in the ocean. Thus each of us contains a little of the whole, and when we die, we reunite with the whole. The well is the origin and destination of the living essence, the beginning and the end, the alpha and the omega.

Sound familiar to anyone?

My personal take, being a spiritual physicist, is that this is the spirit energy, composed partly of light (applied generally, x-rays and such included) and form (patterns, shapes, eddies and currents, etc). The energy itself is both absorbed and transmitted via every atom or electron or subatomic particle, thus in a way, every physical matter contains some of this substance, but in higher living creatures, the patterns formed link us together, and to the universal consciousness, which some call God. The biosphere of the earth even has it's own essence when viewed macroscopically. The energy by itself is inert, but the interactions it has with matter form patterns which are undetectable, as any detection apparatus changes them. Light stops at a collector, radio waves are disrupted by antennas, etc. The human body emits the energy as heat, and various frequencies of the nervous system, as well as subtler frequencies from individual cells during mitochondrial actions and such.

The Spiritus Mundi needs a vessel, and the vessel needs a Spiritus Mundi.

What do you think? Off my rocker? or helpful?
Anyway, that's my thought for the night. I'm off to bed.

elixirmixer
08-31-2017, 10:48 AM
The Spiritus Mundi needs a vessel, and the vessel needs a Spiritus Mundi.


Seems to be the case...

Kiorionis
08-31-2017, 11:11 AM
When we are born, our vessel is filled with spirit from the well, and when we die, that vessel is emptied into the same pool, where it disperses like a drop of water in the ocean.

The comparison can also be made of the mother's blood entering the fetus, and the vessel which the egg/sperms made is the skin tissue.

I think you're onto something ;)

Dragon's Tail
08-31-2017, 02:44 PM
Thanks guys. If anyone knows the origins of that little story, please speak up. I can't find it through searching Google.

Ghislain
09-01-2017, 04:12 AM
Perhaps this is similar to the force mentioned in Star Wars.

I think that nothing else exists other than this energy. IMO, what we perceive as
substance or matter is just a collection of this energy in a defined pattern.

I don't think it possible to call energy inert energy as inert is (chemistry) a substance
that does not react chemically or something unable to move or act; inanimate, while
energy is the impetus behind all motion and all activity. Does this not appear to be an
oxymoron?

In respect to energy and the interactions it has with matter, matter is a component of
energy as in E=mc^2, where m is mass, mass is a property of physical body and a
physical body must have matter. Therefore the only reaction I can see possible for an
interaction between energy and matter is that it can increase the speed off the mass
or it can increase the mass?

There is something I find odd in science. Photons are considered massless particles, but
they are also energy carriers so if a photon is carrying energy and E=mc^2, then it has
mass. If the photon is not carrying energy does it exist at all?

Perhaps if one can remove the energy from a photon and capture the photon, that is
Spiritus Mundi.

Edit: "The Spiritus Mundi needs a vessel, and the vessel needs a Spiritus Mundi."

Perhaps Spiritus Mundi is the vessel.

Ghislain

Dragon's Tail
09-01-2017, 04:50 AM
Perhaps this is similar to the force mentioned in Star Wars.

I think that nothing else exists other than this energy. IMO, what we perceive as
substance or matter is just a collection of this energy in a defined pattern.

I don't think it possible to call energy inert energy as inert is (chemistry) a substance
that does not react chemically or something unable to move or act; inanimate, while
energy is the impetus behind all motion and all activity. Does this not appear to be an
oxymoron?

In respect to energy and the interactions it has with matter, matter is a component of
energy as in E=mc^2, where m is mass, mass is a property of physical body and a
physical body must have matter. Therefore the only reaction I can see possible for an
interaction between energy and matter is that it can increase the speed off the mass
or it can increase the mass?

There is something I find odd in science. Photons are considered massless particles, but
they are also energy carriers so if a photon is carrying energy and E=mc^2, then it has
mass. If the photon is not carrying energy does it exist at all?

Perhaps if one can remove the energy from a photon and capture the photon, that is
Spiritus Mundi.

Edit: "The Spiritus Mundi needs a vessel, and the vessel needs a Spiritus Mundi."

Perhaps Spiritus Mundi is the vessel.

Ghislain

Your right about the "inert energy," but I thought it was a clever way to make the distinction between common light and the patterns. Light is captured by electrons usually, and "excites" them into a higher orbital. They will eventually "decay" (eventually is a tiny fraction of a second) into their normal orbital and emit another photon. So light and energy are constantly interacting everywhere, even when they aren't ionizing particles for things like photosynthesis or other photon reactions.

As to the nature of light, that's a rabbit hole I'm not going to go into depth on, because it gets weird real fast, but the propagation is related to two fields, E and B. E is the electric field and B is magnetic. If an E field changes, then it excites a B field and vice-versa, which is why a single photon is polarized in a certain orientation. Funny enough ExB (that's cross, not times) produces the explanation of how light moves, but there's a problem. It's always moving the same speed regardless of the reference frame. Maxwell noted this years before relativity, and it had scientists spinning their heads, because the Maxwell equations describe everything else about electricity and magnetism really, really well.

Ghislain
09-01-2017, 04:57 AM
New State of Light Revealed With Photon-Trapping Method (https://www.livescience.com/45287-how-to-trap-light.html)

Edit: Sorry DT I didn't notice you had replied, wasn't ignoring you ;)

I have always found the speed of light remaining the same regardless of the reference odd. Can it be explained?

Ghislain

Dragon's Tail
09-01-2017, 05:01 AM
Oh, and E=mc^2 is an equivalence principal. It only really applies when mass is converted to energy or vice-versa. So stuff with mass has a "stored" energy in its creation, where light can have none. Light's "mass" is measured in electron-volts, not on a scale.

Ghislain
09-01-2017, 05:10 AM
Could it be to do with the distortion of time due to velocity?

Ghislain

Dragon's Tail
09-01-2017, 05:16 AM
New State of Light Revealed With Photon-Trapping Method (https://www.livescience.com/45287-how-to-trap-light.html)

Edit: Sorry DT I didn't notice you had replied, wasn't ignoring you ;)

I have always found the speed of light remaining the same regardless of the reference odd. Can it be explained?

Ghislain

Hah, I just replied like 10s ago, so... hehehe. Forgiven.

As to the link, sounds like someone is looking for grant money. I write articles sometimes for sites like that, the job is usually to jazz something up without exactly lying, and TBH the people that run them don't know the difference or care.

That said, I don't know much about BECs, we didn't study those when I was taking E+M. Seems like I've heard of it though, because it sounds familiar. But if this experiment has never been verified since 2010 and it's "something you can do in your backyard with a laser..." my BS alarm goes off. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, but the method they are describing doesn't seem useful to anything, you're basically trapping a wave inside of a resonance field. It'd be easier with radio waves.

However, there is another, subtler, and possibly more alchemical way to do essentially the same thing, and it happens everywhere, and all the time. When light waves pass each other, they superimpose on the electric and magnetic fields, so two bodies separated by a fixed distance, each giving off heat, actually have a sort of standing wave of heat between them. The individual photons aren't trapped, but the pattern of the field is. That's the essence that I'm talking about. In this way, every particle is sort of "connected" to the rest of the universe by these resonances.

Ghislain
09-01-2017, 05:17 AM
If E=mc^2 and light has energy can it be assumed that mc is a constant?

lol I feel we are talking like two people trying to get through the same doorway lol

I shall stand to the right and wait :)

Ghislain

Dragon's Tail
09-01-2017, 05:19 AM
Could it be to do with the distortion of time due to velocity?

Ghislain

The Maxwell "problem" is what led to relativity. Maxwell had it all figured out, but people thought something was wrong with his equations because of that result. Relativity basically said, "No, Maxwell is right, our perception of the universe is wrong." Poor Maxwell, the guy gets no credit even though he pretty much solved the whole thing. Kinda like Mike Collins on the Apollo 11 craft orbiting while Neil and Buzz got to bounce around in front of a camera.

Dragon's Tail
09-01-2017, 05:21 AM
If E=mc^2 and light has energy can it be assumed that mc is a constant?

lol I feel we are talking like two people trying to get through the same doorway lol

I shall stand to the right and wait :)

Ghislain

LOL, I had the same thought while writing my last post. Um, yea, no, not really. E= the maxwell equation, which can be written different ways. BUT, when an atom splits and some mass is lost, the amount of energy created to account for the loss is described by E=mc^2. But there are lots of equations for E. E usually equals 0.5mv^2, and that's more common. I might have my numbers off a bit, I'm drinking.

Ghislain
09-01-2017, 05:24 AM
If light hits a dark non-reflective surface it is absorbed and its energy converted to heat. I am sure photons are released from this heat as I assume that is what a thermal camera detects? What happens to the original photon?

Ghislain

Ghislain
09-01-2017, 05:27 AM
I'd have to do some swatting to keep up with you there DT bit too long in the tooth ;)

I get a bit lost when it comes to electron volts :(

Was that 0.5 millivolts^2 you wrote above?

Ghislain

Dragon's Tail
09-01-2017, 05:33 AM
If light hits a dark non-reflective surface it is absorbed and its energy converted to heat. I am sure photons are released from this heat as I assume that is what a thermal camera detects? What happens to the original photon?

Ghislain

Think of a photon as just a packet of pure energy, that's pretty much what it is. When it collides with an atom, a lot of things happen in an instant. The energy is absorbed by an electron, but that electron needs certain fixed amounts to move to a different "orbit" as electrons had discrete orbitals at different energy levels. They can't be in between these orbitals. Bohr described them as shells in basic quantum theory. So the electron sucks up all this energy, and releases any "extra" while moving to another shell. Those packets have a lower potential than the original packet. Then the electron sits in the new shell, but it's like a stressful office job compared to it's home shell, so it clocks out and goes home. Since it's going from higher to lower, it dumps the extra energy then as well. Different energy shells are created by different atoms, which gives us only a handful of possible light frequencies emitted. That's how spectroscopy works. You see which colors are coming out when you "excite" the material, and the spectrums are like fingerprints. IE copper when you flash it with a lot of heat burns blue, etc. That's because the spectral colors from copper atoms, when mixed, look blue.

Glass is really weird. Basically, the light hits an atom on the surface, wiggles it, and then that atom transmits the energy to the next one in the lattice, and so on until the light pops out of the other side. That rattled my noodle the first time I thought about it.

Dragon's Tail
09-01-2017, 05:34 AM
I'd have to do some swatting to keep up with you there DT bit too long in the tooth ;)

I get a bit lost when it comes to electron volts :(

Was that 0.5 millivolts^2 you wrote above?

Ghislain

1/2 x mass x velocity^2 - the standard energy equation for slow massive things

Ghislain
09-01-2017, 05:45 AM
Ahhh that make more sense now, thanks...I thought i was going to have to swat some more.

I'm inherently lazy ;)

So even though a photon is described as an energy carrier, there isn't a photon without the energy...Is that correct?

I think this rabbit hole is a little too deep for me lol

Ghislain

elixirmixer
09-01-2017, 05:50 AM
Seems to be the case...

Specifically, there is an auto-feedback mechanisum in place, which through the correct kinds of circulation, produce the effects of which your speaking (IMO)

SM needs Body and Body needs SM = Effect

Circulation between two oppisames = Cause

Ghislain
09-01-2017, 05:58 AM
elixirmixer, was that reply to me?

Ghislain

Dragon's Tail
09-01-2017, 06:07 AM
Specifically, there is an auto-feedback mechanisum in place, which through the correct kinds of circulation, produce the effects of which your speaking (IMO)

SM needs Body and Body needs SM = Effect

Circulation between two oppisames = Cause

That's actually how I normally describe it to people of like mind. A feedback loop of sorts, or a bunch of resonating waves. But things move, and bodies change, so it's more of a chaotic effect that I picture in my head. Not sure I follow you on the cause, but it could be viewed as a circulation. Fill the flask (body), heat (life), and then when the glass breaks(death), the spirit falls back in the pool, and you get another flask. But I'm new to SM, I originally came up with these ideas about matter and energy to describe the soul and reincarnation.

zoas23
09-01-2017, 07:17 AM
At this point, it's become obscured in my memory where I came across this idea, but it is one that has stuck with me. If you search "well of souls," you're going to find a cave somewhere in Persia, I believe. But I was informed that Kabbalah practitioners have a different definition.

Whilst Qabalah is quite homogeneous (the most orthodox Qabalah, the post-Luria Qabalah, the "Christian Qabalah" or even Abulafia's version are almost identical)... but it gets VERY heterodox when it comes to the "afterlife" (as to give such thing a name).
In most cases you are going to find a reincarnationist idea which comes from neo-platonism.
And what you meant with a different definition is quite easy:

The body (GVPh) is the receptacle (AVTzR) that gets filled with 3 things... The Nepesh (which is identical to the Greek idea of "Psyche"), the Ruach (which is identical to the Greek idea of "Logos") and the Neschamah (which is identical to the Greek idea of "Nous")... and the *peak* of the Neschamah is the Yechidah (which is identical to the Greek idea of "Hen").

And in SOME forms of Qabalah (i.e, Luria's version) the source of these "things" that the body receives is the Adam Kadmon (The androgynous primordial man... though is his version the primordial man precedes the Being -in other versions it doesn't; i.e, in the Zohar).

And, of course, Qabalah is reincarnationist.


The Spiritus Mundi needs a vessel, and the vessel needs a Spiritus Mundi.
What do you think? Off my rocker? or helpful?

I disagree with some ideas... Mainly:
1) The idea of the Spiritus Mundi as "light" is fine, but it isn't really the light of the visible spectrum, nor the infra-red light or the ultraviolet light, etc.
2) The Spiritus Mundi doesn't need a vessel... Think of the apeiron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apeiron_(cosmology)).

Dragon's Tail
09-01-2017, 01:08 PM
Whilst Qabalah is quite homogeneous (the most orthodox Qabalah, the post-Luria Qabalah, the "Christian Qabalah" or even Abulafia's version are almost identical)... but it gets VERY heterodox when it comes to the "afterlife" (as to give such thing a name).
In most cases you are going to find a reincarnationist idea which comes from neo-platonism.
And what you meant with a different definition is quite easy:

The body (GVPh) is the receptacle (AVTzR) that gets filled with 3 things... The Nepesh (which is identical to the Greek idea of "Psyche"), the Ruach (which is identical to the Greek idea of "Logos") and the Neschamah (which is identical to the Greek idea of "Nous")... and the *peak* of the Neschamah is the Yechidah (which is identical to the Greek idea of "Hen").

And in SOME forms of Qabalah (i.e, Luria's version) the source of these "things" that the body receives is the Adam Kadmon (The androgynous primordial man... though is his version the primordial man precedes the Being -in other versions it doesn't; i.e, in the Zohar).

And, of course, Qabalah is reincarnationist.



I disagree with some ideas... Mainly:
1) The idea of the Spiritus Mundi as "light" is fine, but it isn't really the light of the visible spectrum, nor the infra-red light or the ultraviolet light, etc.
2) The Spiritus Mundi doesn't need a vessel... Think of the apeiron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apeiron_(cosmology)).

Thanks a lot, great information. I didn't mean to imply visible spectrum. I always think of light as any frequency, and call it light because repeating "electromagnetic radiation" gets tiring and dull. And to be clear, the spiritual energy isn't, IMO, the actual "material" light, the the superpositions and interations as a whole. They form complex and interesting patterns around living things that result from indirect association with the environment, but it isn't quite a mysterious ether. All things exist on the fabric of space, but "light" interacts with it in a certain subtle kind of way, sort of half in this realm, and half in the next. I'll have to read more on the aperion.