View Full Version : Grinding organic materials.

09-03-2017, 07:14 PM
*I am inclined to ask.*

When it comes to the organic process.*

Many have settled on combustion as a means to reduce the body of a plant.*

I am of the opinion that this destroyes it's inherent absorbative property.*

Yet I understand, combustion reduces the particle size.*

A volatile body floats like smoke. This is due to particle size.*

I theorize attaining this body size without combustion.*

2 fold: ultraviolet burning itself makes the body of a plant both soft when wet an brittle when dry. Uv burning is sun light to make white,soft, and brittle.

Yet this in itself won't work.*

Now I am simply a lowley peasant.*

I am theorizing using small amounts of fine dry powdered clay. Adding small amounts of it to the grinded plant body. *

Grinding them together. Fine dry clay being the smallest non toxic organic substance I can think of. In this way, the fine particles will grind the plant body to a smaller size. Then separating the two.*
Theory is to use a smaller particle to grind down bigger particles. In the same way a fine clothe is used to polish, yet still leaves micro scratches.

I will use a self made glove box to do this so as not to inhale any particles as that would be bad.*

The theory is a body volatile like smoke, yet retaining it's absorbative affinity for moisture.*

The goal is a body that cannot be separated from its oil via distillation yet is not made through combustion.

To imbibe the oil onto the absorbative body. An theoretically during distillation both bodies would ascend together fully.

White ash readily gives up moisture. Yet black ash has an affinity for moisture.*

A body which hasn't been combusted yet acts like smoke itself. If you have ever shook ash in a container, it takes days for the lighter particles to settle. Weeks even.*

I simply wished to share a theory.*

In two weeks I will have a new water pump for my still. Glove box. Fine dry clay.
If separation becomes an issue I will have to find a similar sized particle to grind agienst my organic body.
I will use a plant who's oils are water soluble.
If the weather does not permit I may switch to an alcohol soluble oil in order to prevent rotting ( if I decide to employ uv burning). For depending on the weather and due to it already being September, uv burning may take longer.
This variable may not be important, yet is still fun.

All comments welcome.

09-03-2017, 07:19 PM
Sounds like a fruitful experiment!

Keep us updated!

09-04-2017, 12:34 AM
I like your idea Avatar, have you considered using a ball mill?


Dragon's Tail
09-04-2017, 01:34 AM
I've ground dry plant matter down finely with a stone mortar and pestle until dust starts coming out of it. That actually seems to happen a lot around here, and I have to slow down my grinding to not let too much of those "volatiles" float away.

Combustion does a lot more than changing the particle size. And if you remove oxygen access, you can calcine without combusting. I call the difference the dragon's breath vs the dragon's fire. Myself I've been wondering about new methods of preparing the body. I'm still shy about total dry distillation, but you can distill off the volatiles outside without much trouble and still get the salts without any flame.

I'm curious about your process, and I'll watch this thread to see more. It's funny you mention clay, as I've been thinking about that quite a bit as well of late, but for a different purpose.

So, you are expecting to get this powder from the dried plant and nothing else? You'll powder, then extract, and then dry and imbibe directly with the extracted fluid?

Franklin Fehrman
09-04-2017, 03:57 AM
My first spagyric, I used a stone mortar and pestle and got it as finely ground as I could. Thankfully, the mercury was sharp enough to get into the plant material that wasn't powder fine. Then, running it through laboratory filter paper, I collected the plant material from the maceration process and put it into a clay bowl to burn down. Then taking the caput mortem into a finer grain mortar and pestle, I would turn it into a very fine powder. At this point, I put this very miniscule amount carefully into a calcining bowl that has a lid, and put it into a ceramic kiln. With the lid, the "volatiles" remain within the crucible. And after having turned off the kiln and let cool, and retrieving it, I can grind it again, and repeat the process until the salt is the color and the "grain" that I desire it. Then I will add my tincted spirit and have my spagyric.

Are you going to add the powdered clay with the powdered plant to your spagyric tincture?

Jean Dubuis suggests never using metal, yet Robert Bartlett says, run it through a coffee grinder.

09-05-2017, 03:01 PM
I am definitely going to play with the ball mill.
That is a neat method and I have a few ideas for it.

Ill take a dry herb and crush it. Although not into fine powder, more the size of broke tea leaves.
I will distill it multiple times until nothing more comes over.
Then I will dry it.
Crush it.
Moisten it and expose it to UV.
Then dry it.
Over and over.

One batch will be exposed to UV for a short period when moist.
The second batch will not.

I will not imbibe the body with its oil unless I can reach the desired volatile body.
A body as subtle as smoke. The desired body should be extremely sensitive. When dry, light agitation should cause it to float.
If I do get anywhere near this point, it may be necessary to keep the body lightly moist while grinding in order to keep it from escaping via agitation during grinding.

My issue with mixing clay in to grind with the organic substance is the eventual separation process.
A ball mill may work.
I will try Manuel grinding via motor and pestle as well.
Wetting and drying is in attempt to increase its brittleness.
One batch will be exposed to UV. UV increases the brittle nature of the body, least it seems this way grossly. The body becomes white and very soft when wet, and when dry crumbles easy. Burning with UV is combustion of sorts.

This is all in an attempt to refine the body to a small particle size, While retaining its original affinity for absorption.
I have a few other experiments I wish to attempt. This particle experiment is just upon the body itself.

Dragon's Tail
09-05-2017, 08:17 PM
That's awesome. My current spagyric tincture is follow a sort of similar path to being crushed up gradually. I put the fresh collected herb (bee balm) in a jar while I was picking it, and packed it into the bottom, then covered with alcohol. It didn't take long to expand and fill the jar, so I kept shaking till the alcohol was "right." I then decanted the liquor and crushed the leaves lightly, and resoaked in the same solvent. I repeated, getting to a course powder and soaked in fresh alcohol, which refuses to darken to completeness, but I'm giving it more time. My hope is to eventually use the fine, charred powder, and add it back to the tincture fluid again, or perhaps a fresh solvent, or perhaps toss it in a coffee filter and run it through the soxhlet. Still picking my brain, so many ideas I want to try.

09-11-2017, 08:31 PM
I remember way back at school being told the physical pressure to brake the cell wall and it was huge. Oil is a good way of breaking down cell walls and this is why we use salad dressing.