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Axismundi000
09-29-2017, 09:37 PM
This Grimiore is interesting because several of the Olympic spirits have attributes relating to Alchemy. For example Aratron: ďHe teachers Alchymy, Magic and Physic. On line stuff from people who work with Arbatel doesnít seem to go into Alchemy much. For myself the issue of being caught in a pact is what prevents me from simply getting some of these Arbatel Olympian spirits to simply produce the stone. When I asked people on another forum who didnít seem worried about pacts and even thought that they were a good thing; they didnít seem interested in the philosophers stone or precious jewels which these spirits are also said to provide. Perhaps the spirits they were already working with are fulfilling their needs.

Any thoughts or speculations appreciated.

Warmheart
10-28-2017, 06:10 AM
So, did you try it yourself yet?

From my own experience and suspicions, it seems that a lot of those Spirits are made up. I didn't have much big success outside of Goetic Spirits (with some physical manifestations), and I had some success with Heptameron angels, but without physically summoning them.

I also wouldn't recommend working with any other version of Goetia than the one from esotericarchives site. More modern versions have corrupted seals and non-working methods of summoning them.

It is also not so easy to enter into Agreements with Spirits, so I wouldn't worry about it on your place. Problems might come if some "Lower Astral"/Fallen beings will come to your work and will start disrupting it, imposing themselves as the summoned being.

It also seems that ability to get physical things from Spirits are possible only at very high stage of one's development, at that stage you will already get so much experience and knowledge, that getting stuff from Spirits won't actually be something of interest to you.

Axismundi000
10-28-2017, 05:13 PM
A few years ago I evoked the Olympic spirit Bethor into a flask I was working with Alchemically in the triangle of art. This was when we were doing the Alchemical Ritual by the late Francis King which is how I came into Alchemy. Bethor was instructed to bring Jupitarian energy into the material in the flask not anything specific.

When it was all done we did get a result but it faded after 2 weeks and became just basic salt again. Another reason for my varied Alchemical researches find a way to fix the effect by the material being progressed itself as well as bringing force to bear on it.

Salazius
10-31-2017, 02:10 PM
In this world, you need to pay for everything.

Pact is just an agreement, a contract. And you need to read the little lines at the back of the paper, especially the "hows" concerning the payment.

Even knowlegde, which is power, has to be paid. So be carefull with the trades like that.

You should contact instead the Spirit of Alchemy. Which is the real intelligence of Nature, knowing everything from every points of view, and not only from a specific one, like Saturn with Aratron.

elixirmixer
10-31-2017, 08:56 PM
Who is the Spirit of Alchemy?

Kibric
10-31-2017, 09:18 PM
Sophia ?

Baruel could tell you, if your into ceremonial magic

I'm convinced these spirits are like computer programs

you cant summon or conjure a human ?
well i haven't tried....yet

elixirmixer
10-31-2017, 09:29 PM
Im only a Novice in the practice of Magic; Im still going through the initiatory training.

I dont know who any of the Spirits are; However; I've always had a great conection with the Wisdom spirit. I ended up Marrying a woman named Sophia and she is indeed very wise. Much wiser than I.

This has sparked a thought; I will move to a more appropriate thread. Thanks Kibric; I think your right

"Wisdom has hewn out her SEVEN pillars..."

Axismundi000
10-31-2017, 11:30 PM
In this world, you need to pay for everything.

Pact is just an agreement, a contract. And you need to read the little lines at the back of the paper, especially the "hows" concerning the payment.

Even knowlegde, which is power, has to be paid. So be carefull with the trades like that.

You should contact instead the Spirit of Alchemy. Which is the real intelligence of Nature, knowing everything from every points of view, and not only from a specific one, like Saturn with Aratron.

I appreciate the difference between an explicit and an implicit pact my current work with genii that have knowledge of Alchemy is from Franz Bardon’s zone girdling the earth. Olympian spirits do not I think have what could be called a moral compass though they are not hostile or malevolent as such. It is interesting that despite a lot of material out there, magicians working with them, the Arbatel is unusual that virtually all the Olympic spirits are described as having Alchemical abilities but nobody seems to address that aspect or not publicly anyway.

Pacts are easy to fall into as you point out Salazius.