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elixirmixer
10-27-2017, 01:32 AM
I am really struggling to wrap my head around two aspects of alchemy (which may or may not be related) and I would like some assistance.

A) Putrifaction. How is this performed practically? I always just leave my jars in incubation but air tight. This does not seem to produce Putrifaction. However, if I leave it open, wont it get germs and bacteria and stuff in there that will fuck it up?? Please help me, its really not making sense.

B) Redness. I cannot seem to produce red oils from plants consistently. I am hoping that someone can share how they darken their greens into reds, as this is the part thats holding back my essay from being completed.

I had to suck up a lot of pride to ask for your help; I hope it wasnt for nothing ;)

Let's grow. Together. :o

Schmuldvich
10-27-2017, 01:39 AM
Putrifaction. How is this performed practically? I always just leave my jars in incubation but air tight. This does not seem to produce Putrifaction. However, if I leave it open, wont it get germs and bacteria and stuff in there that will fuck it up?? Please help me, its really not making sense.

This thread is great: http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4940-Our-Blackness-Putrefaction


It seems that most people are in the same boat as you. Not many have ever performed a successful putrefaction, and those who know seem to not like to help too much!

Kibric
10-27-2017, 03:12 AM
putrefaction is the action of water upon earth
or to be more exact vapour
the corruption only occurs through the earths ingress with its own water
this happens with and without external heat being applied

the alchemist wants his water to be drunk by the earth
and in return wants the earth to exhale that same water
continually this action cause corruption then conjuncture
it only passes through these stages because the water is from the earth
the proper corruption then conjuncture wont occur with a foreign water


the black stage or ravens head has been deliberately made confusing
this picture is an apt physical description
http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/0/53/42/96/20150204/ob_bc859a_finis-gloria-mundi.jpg

Dragon's Tail
10-27-2017, 03:44 AM
I think it has to be able to breathe. My second attempt with grape leaves didn't work as the first. Red cedar in a glass jar with a martini glass fitted to the top produced a red liquid for me the first time, and it was simply left outside. I also have a large bucket that I was using for waste water at my property, and waste biomass (food leftovers). It's gone all red after I forgot to dump it, now I wonder if I should save it, because it's several gallons. Neither of those were 100% sealed.
All accidental at this point though, like you said, never consistent results.

Just checked my "fresh" cilantro experiment. It's quite dark, though I'm not certain on the blackness of it. That on has been sitting in a sealed mason jar for months. It wasn't working, and I added some live vinegar to it a while back. I have no plan at all for how I might use it at this point, I would not call it a successful putrefication.

I know that isn't helpful, but maybe useful as things that didn't work for me.

elixirmixer
10-27-2017, 05:07 AM
So; after reading the Putrifaction thread, it seems that Alchemical Putrifaction is when "a body is immersed in its own waters"???? is that right?

Now, I have some corriander (cilantro) which i gentle distilled out the waters, powdered the dry herb and re combined them. While SOMEthing is happening, it is not changing colour. It is very slowly producing gases which I keep releasing from the jar. Is this process worth while? Or am I just rotting good cilantro?

I took a sample of this and added some hydrogen peroxide to see if oxidation was the key. It made no difference at all at this stage.

Im getting desperate so i think im going to just circulate this heavily and see if that will do anything.

I firmly believe that a red oil can be extracted out of any plant. I was hoping to learn how to do that without dry distillation, alas, it seems that could be my only way.

Andro
10-27-2017, 06:23 AM
Please name threads so that the title reflects the actual topic of the thread, so it is searchable with the corresponding keywords.

"ElixirMixer needs Help" does not reflect the topic of the thread.

Thread title changed to: "Help needed: Putrefaction and Red Oil from Plants".

elixirmixer
10-27-2017, 09:48 AM
What are the requirments for an alchemical putrefaction?

Thus far what I can tell is; that the waters must match the earth, they must be specific to one another.

That there must be air, which carries the celestial fire, in order to power the putrefaction.

That there is oppertunity to sweat, and then drink these waters repeatedly.

This is now the way I see putrefaction. And I have a plan. I am going to run a refluxing condenser above my corriander flask, with the top open to allow air to get in, however the condenser will ensure that I dont lose the important waters. Surely over time this will create some type of result, what that is we will find out tomorrow I guess!

Axismundi000
10-27-2017, 11:32 AM
I suggest refluxing in a closed system once it is up to 38-40Centigrade not open to the air. The putrefaction may produce pressure so intermittently take the upper flask or balloon off to let air in for a few moments. To me this is emulating nature because a closed system is like how our planet is in some ways, a closed ecological system being warmed from the outside by the sun.

elixirmixer
10-27-2017, 11:42 AM
Have you ever refluxed plants before Axis?

Kiorionis
10-27-2017, 01:49 PM
A) Putrifaction. How is this performed practically? [. . .] What are the requirements for an alchemical putrefaction?

Practically it is performed with digestion. A constant heat in a 'hermetically sealed flask'. Seth-Ra made a comment a while back about a hermetic seal used to "seal out stagnation" and consisted of a jar with a cloth over top of it, which allowed the contents to breath. Can't remember which thread that was in though... I also think there was a fair amount of alcohol present to act as a sterilization agent. I also cant remember if it was in conjunction with putrefaction or just after...

The requirements for an alchemical putrefaction are an alchemical Mercury/Spirit and an alchemical Sulphur/Fire. Everything else just acts as a body to contain them. The Sulphur, while retained in the Salt, feeds on the Mercury and becomes strengthened. This happens in nature all the time. The trick seems to be in preserving the alchemical agents, or strengthening them in some way before their union and digestion.

A great example of this is a campfire. The fire itself (in this metaphor) is the alchemical Sulphur, and the Mercury (as well as the Salt-body) is the wood and air that feeds it. As a result of their interaction, there is a blackening (charcoal). I suppose what I'm trying to say is, all Fire needs a source of Fuel. If you don't give fire enough Fuel, it dies out. Too much, and you have an explosion.

Edit. Also, I'm not saying this is 'the' way to go about it. Just how I see it at the moment :)



B) Redness. I cannot seem to produce red oils from plants consistently. I am hoping that someone can share how they darken their greens into reds, as this is the part thats holding back my essay from being completed.

Are you using the same method each time, or do you vary your method? I've found that even the slightest variation (especially in processing Time) can make a difference. Most of my 'successes' (even if they never end in a final product) happen before 1 in the afternoon.

Axismundi000
10-27-2017, 03:48 PM
Have you ever refluxed plants before Axis?

Yes. What I found more interesting though was refluxing common table salt partially dissolved in dew, how it changed colour over time then back to the starting colour, fascinating excercise that got me started in practical Lab Alchemy.

elixirmixer
10-27-2017, 09:16 PM
Well, I see reflux as a good place to be; thats why i've saved it for last. Using the opposites of hot/cold, is very much a hermetic principle, therefore, it has to do something. Hopefully today I can find out what that something is.

Thank you all for your contribution. The cloth thing is probably the way to go, Maybe ill putrify before ai move forward... not sure yet.

Dragon's Tail
10-28-2017, 04:12 AM
I would say at least some kind of reflux is needed, but a sealed flask will sort of do this on its own. I used a martini glass to act as my rainmaker in the mentioned experiment.

I don't have the answer, but should we also consider the natural decomposition of fallen leaves -> black hummus? That to me is the natural order of decomposition, and soil is very much alive. It is its own ecosystem filled with nematoads and mites and all manner of microscopic critters. It is far from a "sterile" environment but produces a very sweet product.

Avatar
03-18-2018, 06:26 AM
Heat of the air.
Moisture and dryness with dominant dryness.
Meaning a sauna.
The green material will sweat out red substance. This substance.
It is like a slight burning.
A hot shower, just below burning temp.
Very little water in the bottom of your vessel.

If you are able to completely sunbleach your substance. A lower heat will extract the red liquid.
You have to sweat it out.
Not wash it out.
Sauna vs. bath.

Purification.
Mulch is the balanced product of purification of plants. A sweet smelling earth. Yet nitrogen rich purification yields a smell like a graveyard.
Living dirt. Sand isn't living.
Dirt is living death of trees and is the foundation of life.
Life is build on a living soup of death. Can I extract an oil from freshly grown dirt? Does fresh dirt have any significant value? I mean fresh dirt from a pure source.
Anyway, purification is digestion.
In air and without air, both forms exist.

catmandu
08-01-2018, 04:25 AM
I think a ENS tincture goes through a putrefaction stage(not black color) if digested long enough. I digest my ENS tinctures for around 6 months until the green matter has turned brown and definitely smells funky. I think the Oil of Tartar/Spirit can perform the putrefaction. No alcohol during this stage. It is definitely not gone bad as when I add the alcohol for getting the plant Oil the separation of the layers of the plant matter works fine.

I have only gotten red oil from Tumeric and Myrrh ENS tinctures but the Oil of Tartar will turn red in the ENS mixture which to me is a sign of progress in the work.

Florius Frammel
08-01-2018, 06:02 AM
Citing an acquintance: "Because it's red and smells good, doesn't necessarily mean it's healthy."

I heard of people getting sick or dying after licking the stuff off their fingers they sticked in the content of their vessels.

elixirmixer
08-01-2018, 06:31 AM
Citing an acquintance: "Because it's red and smells good, doesn't necessarily mean it's healthy."

I heard of people getting sick or dying after licking the stuff off their fingers they sticked in the content of their vessels.

Agreed. Lead acetate tastes delicious. (The naturally produced acetate is red, despite that the chemical version is transparent )

I havent worked enough on the ENS processes to comment. However, even though its got me very excited in the past, tumeric becoming red is simply because curcumin acts as a pH indicator, any basic solution will produce a redness.

However; in certain cases, this redness will drop-out a yellow distillate, which (imo) is worth its weight in gold.

JDP
08-01-2018, 12:10 PM
Agreed. Lead acetate tastes delicious. (The naturally produced acetate is red, despite that the chemical version is transparent )

I have heard this claim before, and also supposedly green, but personally I have never seen any such thing. The only way such things could happen is if significant traces of iron, cobalt, nickel or copper were present in the lead compound that was used to prepare the acetate. The acetates of those metals are red and green. Lead acetate is always colorless without such impurities.

Kiorionis
08-01-2018, 12:15 PM
any basic solution will produce a redness.

Did you mean to say that basic solutions produce blue colours?

http://www.gcsescience.com/Indicator-Color-pH-Scale.gif
(Standard pH measurements)

Florius Frammel
08-01-2018, 01:46 PM
Did you mean to say that basic solutions produce blue colours?

http://www.gcsescience.com/Indicator-Color-pH-Scale.gif
(Standard pH measurements)

That depends on which indicator dye you use. Different indicators, different colors for basic and acid solutions.
You can't say something like acids are always red and basics blue.

http://chemistry.elmhurst.edu/vchembook/images2/186indicators.jpg

That figure of the pH measurements looks similar to the universal indicator:

https://www.chemistryforlives.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/tmp636990831433089026-1140x479.jpg

catmandu
08-01-2018, 02:26 PM
With the ENS process, once the alcohol is added and you shake/mix, you will see the plant matter and the oil of Tartar separate into multiple layers in your jar. I only ingest the top layer, ie the plant's essential oil and alcohol.

The layer below is the plant salts, organic matter and the layer below is the Oil of Tartar which is clear when started and turns red from the process. You don't ingest the Oil of Tartar. The bottom layer is the potassium carbonate white salts. The potassium carbonate can be calcined and reused again.

If the ENS tincture doesn't separate into layers, then yes I would not ingest it and start over again.

Stinging Netttle's oil was very green, I got yellow oil from another plant. Frankincense is an orange oil. I have found different plants produce different colors on the essential oil/alcohol top layer. Tumeric and myrrh were red.

z0 K
08-01-2018, 04:36 PM
So; after reading the Putrifaction thread, it seems that Alchemical Putrifaction is when "a body is immersed in its own waters"???? is that right?

Now, I have some corriander (cilantro) which i gentle distilled out the waters, powdered the dry herb and re combined them. While SOMEthing is happening, it is not changing colour. It is very slowly producing gases which I keep releasing from the jar. Is this process worth while? Or am I just rotting good cilantro?

I took a sample of this and added some hydrogen peroxide to see if oxidation was the key. It made no difference at all at this stage.

Im getting desperate so i think im going to just circulate this heavily and see if that will do anything.

I firmly believe that a red oil can be extracted out of any plant. I was hoping to learn how to do that without dry distillation, alas, it seems that could be my only way.

Alchemical putrefaction can be done wet or dry. If you distilled fresh picked cilantro in a BM and then put the distilled waters back on the dry powdered herb and let them cohabitate for a couple of days in a sealed jar at the temp of a hot summer day then the water when filtered out of the herb will be brownish or yellowish brown or orange reddish. If you then distill that water a dull dark reddish somewhat gummy mass will remain in the flask. If you put the water back on the mass and solve then filter then distill the mass will get redder by the rotation. That is the Vegetable Fire. The Sulfur Fire is a product of dry distillation.

If you let the dry herb soak too long in the first water then microorganisms will sprout and ruin the work with rot.

Dry putrefaction is accomplished by taking the herb fresh and sealing it in a vessel and heating to about 250F for about 14 days. Or take a dry herb and moisten it to saturation with "water of the clouds" (distilled water) before sealing in the vessel for putrefaction.