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elixirmixer
11-19-2017, 05:29 AM
It is actually shocking to me that in the year 2017 there is no generalized standard for spagyrics; let alone Alchemy.

As soon as im finished this essay (its almost done; sorry Awani) I am going to write my own book; and offer invitation to co-authors called "The Standardization of Spagyric Medicine"

There are literally DOZENS of ways to perform these processes. We often talk with a similar vocabulary, however most of us are probably self initiated into the art, and may use the same word to describe different processes; without realizing it.

I think that for the good of man-kind, a global standard of Spagyric medicine needs to be developed.

If you would like to play a part in vhanging the way the world views Spagyrics, please let me know.

I mean really; what is the point of all of this if we can't easily and effectively help the people we love? Sure you might save yourself, but could you live with yourself without your closest family with you, by your side?

EDIT: I not trying to pretend to be some global authority on the matter....

...... but if the shoe fits then just strut those kicks :cool:

Dragon's Tail
11-19-2017, 05:53 AM
I was actually scratching out some elementary thoughts on plant tinctures as a pre-requesite to my upcoming beebalm tincture experiment. I'm still learning, but I have 3 experiments sharing one burner and it's f-ing annoying. I need to clean up my lab area and get another burner. Possibly another condenser too.

Was thinking about starting a thread called "DT and EM craziness" just so we could jabber on without going off-topic, hehe. Might end up being a sticky depending on what we hit on.

I think there's an inherent problem though, in that we all definitely have different methods. Axis is making up mother's milk with his spagyrics, and my current "stones" consist of fused salty eggs and yellow tinctures (tincturing level 2, lol). It just takes so much time to sort out a method start to finish, even though I'm pretty sure when I finish all these experiments, I'll be able to crank out plant stones in a month, maybe even a few days if the water experiment keeps producing awesome results.

But at that point, I mean. Let's say you find some secret fire that you can cook up in a microwave in 2 minutes using salt, butter, and leftover pepperoni (sorry, had to toss something sill in there to make a point), toss it in a corked bottle and come back the next day to a perfected quintessence. How hard would it be to hand something like that over to the greedy mob that is the Internet? Next thing you know, every magic shop is selling "quintessence" that they screwed up for 100$$ a grain. Some of them will even sell ordinary salt, and call it quintessence, and people will buy that garbage. (You really need that pepperoni to make it work)

End result, you end up doing the same thing every other philosopher has done for the last 4000 years. Encrypt everything with literary intrigue, and become subject to future skepticism.

I don't remember where I was going with this...but I think I got most of the point across. Still, I got a pretty badass tincture chapter that's missing all the fluff. I expect the spagyrics chapter will include 2 or 3 different methods depending on the end goal.

elixirmixer
11-19-2017, 07:46 AM
Well yes there are many methods on the go; thats why i wanted some co-authors, to outline in detail all the different processes; the different paths that can be taken, the variying results... and to give STANDARDIZED names to all this shit; so that future generations can be like "Are you using the EM method or the DT?" for example.

Axis; are you making virgins milk?? I've just been trying to work that one out today. Have you shared the process anywhere?

Even some of the best modern reading that alchemy has produced doesnt really go into great detail. Im talking photographic; step by step stuff.

This isnt alchemy im talking about, we arnt handing out Divine secrets here, just saving the young spagyric apprentices years of trying to work out what the fuck we are all on about when we have dynamic conversations and sharie a multitude of experiences; such as we do here on the forum.

I really cant be fucked doing it however; its just got to be done. Ill be writing it for my children regardless so i may aswell make it a "thing".

Im down for a "Lab craziness" thread where we can just spew out whatevers happening in the lab at the current time. Would be beyter than a million mini threads everytime i have a new idea or question lol

Lapis Solaris
11-19-2017, 08:54 AM
It depends on the understanding of the individual to actually get it. You can't standardise alchemical language as if it's a rule book in a way that everyone will understand because of its depth. It runs deep into our beings as well as expanding out to the furthest reaching star. You can't write a standard practice for "every thing at every level." These things need to be experienced as well as known in order to truly be grasped. It's initiatory.

Hence, most people don't even know what alchemy is. There's a reason the occult always has and always will exist.

elixirmixer
11-19-2017, 09:02 AM
I do agree in regards to 'Alchemy'.

Spagyrics i feel doesnt need to be so confusing. (IMO)

I certainly dont even know a quarter of what there is to know about ALCHEMY. The language still is largly over my head; except for maybe a few specific processes. Dragons, eagles, toads, lions, scales, breath ect... all means nothing to me. I wish I knew but i dont really know where to learn..

Schmuldvich
11-19-2017, 10:10 AM
I certainly dont even know a quarter of what there is to know about ALCHEMY. The language still is largly over my head; except for maybe a few specific processes. Dragons, eagles, toads, lions, scales, breath ect... all means nothing to me. I wish I knew but i dont really know where to learn..

By taking the time needed (months/years) reading. When you finally accept this and actually do it I assure you will progress much closer to where you want to be. Forget everything you think you know and read some of the words from the Masters (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4982-EM-s-P.S.-Thread&p=52953#post52953); the answers you seek and wisdom you want is all there but you must take the time to study what has already been written.

Axismundi000
11-19-2017, 10:30 AM
The only way to succeed with Alchemy is to look firstly to God (however you choose to term this). Spending years reading books and/or spending years testing in a Lab is a process which without the grace of the Divine Providence will be pointless.

Therefore if anyone tells you eg; read 4 books on Alchemy a day for several years, or do this or that specific sequence of lab works only and then you will know, they are seeking to obstruct you. They do this either from the position of expressing the impulse of malificum or because they have failed and see no way forward for themselves.

Schmuldvich
11-19-2017, 10:53 AM
The only way to succeed with Alchemy is to look firstly to God (however you choose to term this). Spending years reading books and/or spending years testing in a Lab is a process which without the grace of the Divine Providence will be pointless.

Therefore if anyone tells you eg; read 4 books on Alchemy a day for several years, or do this or that specific sequence of lab works only and then you will know, they are seeking to obstruct you.

Elixirmixir wants to know what "Dragons, eagles, toads, lions, scales, breath ect..." are in Alchemy. God will not show anyone this.

Divine Providence, looking to God, grace, nor the boogyman will explain to you how to perform the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. The only way to learn about Magick, the LBRP, or Aboriginal food recipes is to have someone tell you, or by...well...reading.

The only way to know what the symbols "Dragons, eagles, toads, lions, scales, breath ect..." represent is to have someone tell you or reading what has already been written.

elixirmixer
11-19-2017, 11:26 AM
I think that both God and reading are necessary; however, without God all is utter delusion and arrives at nothing but madness by pure definition (In terms of the opinion from people who have an unbreakable faith/knowledge of God (and there are quite a shitload of us btw)

I also have experienced that God can straight out give you heaps of detailed instruction in alchemy through pure inspiration alone. Ill give the example of one of the last times you lectured me to read, and for a change I did squiz over some books, and then by and by I learned the technique to manifest spiritus mundi in its pure form, and I wrote about it in alegorical speech and another member confirmed that I was correct and then we had a deeper chat in private and it turns out that I was corret(ly informed by God).

THEN, you were hassling me another time to go and read, I picked up Hollandus and I learnt how to dance the minor opus. And here, again, Hollandus does not at all describe the process really, the whole work is one massive riddle, only really trying to share one major understanding, the correct seperstion and hermetic union of the elements (aka the opus). AND YET pray pray pray away I did and she-bam. Worked out the riddle. Couldnt have done it without all those whimpy moments begging God for it all to stop (I really detest this realm if you cant tell, but i try to bear it with a grin) :)
(After discovering the method it took me another 4-5 months to successfully prove my theory, which was correct (im just trying to point out the actual consistent spiritual yearning over time))

So now I best just do it again amd give this 'Stone' making a go :o

Axismundi000
11-19-2017, 01:30 PM
Elixirmixir wants to know what "Dragons, eagles, toads, lions, scales, breath ect..." are in Alchemy. God will not show anyone this.

Divine Providence, looking to God, grace, nor the boogyman will explain to you how to perform the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. The only way to learn about Magick, the LBRP, or Aboriginal food recipes is to have someone tell you, or by...well...reading.

The only way to know what the symbols "Dragons, eagles, toads, lions, scales, breath ect..." represent is to have someone tell you or reading what has already been written.

Anything in Alchemy practical or theoretical, reading or lab work will achieve nothing without sincere aspiration to and grace given from the Divine. Retorts, alembics, toads dragons etc etc meaningless without the Divine. I shall illustrate: post 828 specifically.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2071-Spiritus-Mundi

Here I identify how mercury metal when Alchemically prepared can extract the true Alchemical mercury. In your response you fail to understand what I have written and think I am talking only of the mercury metal. Without Divine input it is like the chattering of the ape of Thoth in your brain, even basic verbal reasoning of comprehending text on a screen is not achieved. How then can reading 4 books on Alchemy a day help a person without the Divine to guide the enquiry? Alchemy is one part of Hermeticism and without God and personally I would say the Gods also, no effort will bear fruit in any aspect of Hermeticism. Nobody can tell you anything, you will only hear the chattering of Thoth’s monkey in your brain without the Divine.

Perhaps this image (https://img.purch.com/w/660/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5saXZlc2NpZW5jZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMD AwLzA1OC82MTQvb3JpZ2luYWwvY3JlYXRpb24tb2YtYWRhbS5q cGc=) from the Sistine chapel will provide clear illustration.

JDP
11-19-2017, 02:03 PM
The only way to succeed with Alchemy is to look firstly to God (however you choose to term this). Spending years reading books and/or spending years testing in a Lab is a process which without the grace of the Divine Providence will be pointless.

Therefore if anyone tells you eg; read 4 books on Alchemy a day for several years, or do this or that specific sequence of lab works only and then you will know, they are seeking to obstruct you. They do this either from the position of expressing the impulse of malificum or because they have failed and see no way forward for themselves.

There's several big problems with this approach, not the least of which is that the alleged existence of "God", or indeed of any "Gods" whatsoever, rests on pure assumptions and speculations that NO ONE in the THOUSANDS of years of civilization on this planet has been able to prove. The whole thing rests on faith (i.e. belief without actual proof.) So, what if it turns out that "He" really is not "out there" listening to your prayers and desires? What then? You would have wasted your time waiting for an unproven supernatural entity to assist you in a subject which otherwise is very real and tangible and is more logically and likely to be pursuable by the very methods (viz. study & experimentation) that you are discarding.

Axismundi000
11-19-2017, 02:06 PM
Yes I understand you do not think Alchemy has anything to do with spirituality, you are of the firm view that it is entirely empirical. From such a stance the Divine would have no place in Alchemy and being told what to do, reading books and painstaking research would be the only options.

Kiorionis
11-19-2017, 02:40 PM
I think its funny that this thread started out on Spagyric Medicine, and then turned to Alchemy. The two are quite different. Alchemical remedies take quite a long time to prepare, and aren't viable in the practice of medicine when a practitioner is seeing 10+ clients a day, or a "natural clinic" is seeing 30+ clients a day. There is always a chance for an alchemical remedy to ruin a life rather than help as well (there have been a few comments on this around the forums). Some people just aren't ready for the next level.

ElixirMixer, I think it'd be a great book. Though I see it to be more effective as a book on processing medicinal plants in line with natural philosophy. If the aim is to standardize a system of spagyric medicine, I think there are at least 6 topics which need to be covered:

1 - Natural Philosophy
2 - Botanical Sciences
3 - Anatomy and Physiology - Exoteric and Esoteric
4 - Materia Medica
5 - Methods of Formulation
6 - Methods of Preparation

"Standard Principles of Hermetic Medicine" is a title I just thought of too.

But I'm just throwing out ideas haha

Dragon's Tail
11-19-2017, 03:35 PM
Toss a topic in an alchemy forum...
hehe

Natural Philosophy would be great, if I'm thinking the same as you. The various parts of a plant (roots, leaves, stalk) and how the body of a plant mimics all bodies when laid out in a general context. But on a botanical discussion of plants, you run into problems. There are simply too many species, and the species where EM lives are totally different from where I live vs Europe or Africa. I have never in my life seen a baobab tree, which mostly grow near the fertile crescent and Africa, for instance. So if it were a book about spagyrics, and I were writing it, I would try my best to keep from that topic altogether, or at the most compile a sort of index that is brief and to the point, such as what the planetary qualities mean when it comes to different plants.

I think I'm seeing your points EM. Perhaps a collection of compiled treaties from various spagyrical workers laying out the process in plain English of how they confect their medicines in a more plain English fashion, and maybe some pictures or illustrations of how the work should proceed. You seem to have yours nailed down, while mine is an ever evolving process. My jelly balls would be a nice curiosity, I think, for seekers just beginning their path, but we both know that they are hardly "finished."

Kiorionis
11-19-2017, 04:19 PM
But on a botanical discussion of plants, you run into problems. There are simply too many species, and the species where EM lives are totally different from where I live vs Europe or Africa. I have never in my life seen a baobab tree, which mostly grow near the fertile crescent and Africa, for instance.

Well spagyric works with Principles, not with specific species of plants. Salt, Sulphur, Mercury. All plants have them. They also all have Acids, Alkalis and Alcohols which interact in general but distinct ways.

And these days, it's easy to find the most common medicinal plants.

elixirmixer
11-19-2017, 08:18 PM
I love it! We're making progress already.

I agree Kiorionis; a brilliant overview of needed topics.

You sound like you've done this before? ;)

And yes it will be founded upon principals. Its not neccesary to go in depth into all species, just the general make up with maybe the tidbit of specifics.

Rosemary im pretty sure is found everywhere, at least if a good quality rosemary elixir was available more publically, then the issue of 200,000,000 shitty flu vaccines getting charged to the tax payer wouldnt be an issue...

Yes your jelly balls are interesting.
The process involving virgins milk i find very interesting and dont know shit about.
You have the general spagyric process outlines by Bartlett and others, aka, essential oil, alcohol amd alkalis.
You have my process which im pretty sure is beginning to border on the lines of alchemical medicine due to its 'philosophical' preparation. And the list goes on. Which one is the best? Which one is the easiest? Which one is going to help granny make it through the flu session? Which one is going to give me a rock hard erection on demand for hours? These are the important questions that; due to a lack of alchemical enterprise, has never really been sorted out (and then shared)
There is the "andro" method also, pure ether extraction most likely conjoined with volatile salts or something along these lines, i dont know his exact process but he's given a lot of food for though in regards to herbal extractions thats for sure.

How all these effect the body... big topic... well worth resesrching and i cant wait to do the reading for that one! I love biology!

Kibric
11-19-2017, 09:45 PM
As soon as im finished this essay (its almost done; sorry Awani)
?? Awani is your teacher ?

practical handbook of plant alchemy - Manfred Junius might be worth a read for your project

Kiorionis
11-19-2017, 11:29 PM
I agree Kiorionis; a brilliant overview of needed topics.

You sound like you've done this before? ;)

Let's just say a book like this has been on my mind for awhile haha

Dragon's Tail
11-20-2017, 12:12 AM
practical handbook of plant alchemy - Manfred Junius might be worth a read for your project

Nice. I've been reading a few pages for the last couple of nights. He keeps referencing his other books, but I haven't gotten to the good stuff yet. Looking forward to seeing what he leaves out. My general impression is that it isn't missing any pre-cursors that the studious student shouldn't already know.

I know one thing. I'm tired of all this essential oil tripe. Essential oils have never, ever, done anything special for me in my experiments. I believe there are other, better ways to rectify the Sulphur of a plant. I'm almost certain it is not found in the essential oil, or if it is, it's in some fiddling small amount. Is the human soul found in our pheromones and sweat? That's where I think EM's idea about compiling methods is a good one. Different viewpoints and results with various solvents, salt treatments, purifications of the components, and coagulation ideas could prove to be a masterful idea fountain for people beginning experiments and hoping to migrate one day to more philosophical treaties.

I think from reading, this is what he's after. Here's a bunch of different ways to butcher, purify, and recombine plant materials, and here are the results (which you won't get from mixing ess. oil and tartar in some high strength alcohol)

elixirmixer
11-20-2017, 01:53 AM
That's where I think EM's idea about compiling methods is a good one. Different viewpoints and results with various solvents, salt treatments, purifications of the components, and coagulation ideas could prove to be a masterful idea fountain for people beginning experiments and hoping to migrate one day to more philosophical treaties.

I think from reading, this is what he's after. Here's a bunch of different ways to butcher, purify, and recombine plant materials, and here are the results (which you won't get from mixing ess. oil and tartar in some high strength alcohol)

Correct my friend. Give a man an elixir and he'll live for a day; teach a man to elixir and he will live... for... a lifetime..?

Kiorionis, the title sounds great. I take it then that your interested in slapping your name somewhere in this book..?

Who else is definitly keen??

Kibric, I am currently undergoing a project with Awani and others, and my contribution is about 2 or so months late (give a take a month or two) however, not for much longer. I just had another 4 day daddy daycare mission and my wife is coming home this evening. Most of essay is already done just need to add the appropriate depth but its all been laid out. Its hard to know exactly how far too go without just spoonfeeding the plebs. After all, i was looking for this 'red crystal' medicine for over a decade so im not sure i just want to slap it into a recipe and then publish it internationally for free. I mean, what true alchemists would give away his secrets wothout dicking around his students for years with brutality endless metaphorical gibberish. Its only right I uphold the tradition ;)

Schmuldvich
11-20-2017, 02:15 AM
Its hard to know exactly how far too go without just spoonfeeding the plebs. After all, i was looking for this 'red crystal' medicine for over a decade so im not sure i just want to slap it into a recipe and then publish it internationally for free. I mean, what true alchemists would give away his secrets wothout dicking around his students for years with brutality endless metaphorical gibberish. Its only right I uphold the tradition

Have you accomplished something worthwhile?

Kibric
11-20-2017, 03:26 AM
Essential oils have never, ever, done anything special for me in my experiments. I believe there are other, better ways to rectify the Sulphur of a plant. I'm almost certain it is not found in the essential oil, or if it is, it's in some fiddling small amount.
There might be something in Moonlight and mirrors ?

Is the human soul found in our pheromones and sweat? That's where I think EM's idea about compiling methods is a good one. Different viewpoints and results with various solvents, salt treatments, purifications of the components, and coagulation ideas could prove to be a masterful idea fountain for people beginning experiments and hoping to migrate one day to more philosophical treaties
Its 2017, i dont think something like it has been done for awhile
I'll try to track down some more books that might help EM

Kibric, I am currently undergoing a project with Awani and others, and my contribution is about 2 or so months late (give a take a month or two) however, not for much longer. I just had another 4 day daddy daycare mission and my wife is coming home this evening. Most of essay is already done just need to add the appropriate depth but its all been laid out.
sounds good, i was reminded of school essays and the panic and boredom that came with it
and felt bad for you :(

Its hard to know exactly how far too go without just spoonfeeding the plebs. After all, i was looking for this 'red crystal' medicine for over a decade so im not sure i just want to slap it into a recipe and then publish it internationally for free.
Red Crystal ?
I cant be sure of what you are working with
When it melts does its vapour shine like an oil slick ?

I mean, what true alchemists would give away his secrets wothout dicking around his students for years with brutality endless metaphorical gibberish. Its only right I uphold the tradition
Lots of texts are full of codes and lots were written by other people trying to interpret them
there is a tradition of being lost in the labyrinth, the confusion is quite deliberate
its designed to separate those who will just give up and those who wont
No text describing the Universal Medicine will show you everything without codes

a Master might code his texts for the public but to his student he doesn't mess them around
he recognises he was in his students place once
sharing Universal Medicine with the world was something Federico Gualdi wanted
some Rosicrucian's believe he is preparing for when the world is unable to suppress it

Dragon's Tail
11-20-2017, 04:46 AM
If you need help with the "bookmaking" process EM let me know. I've got most of the kinks worked out. You need to clear your inbox a bit if you want to interact via PM about it though ;)

It's easy to make an ebook or POD paperback these days, but formatting everything can be a pain in the rear if you are not accustomed to the process. Once you've collected the necessary writing, let me know. There are a great many options for putting together a nice product.

..or we could just cobble it together in a pdf and stick a download link somewhere, haha

Kiorionis
11-21-2017, 03:25 AM
Kiorionis [. . .] I take it then that your interested in slapping your name somewhere in this book..?

Haha, well I have a few projects I'd need to clear first. I probably wont be free until the July or August of 2018.

Plus you still have to finish that essay ;)

elixirmixer
11-21-2017, 06:53 AM
Yes I'll try and finish it off this weekend.

Im pretty excited about this project now. About time I wrote a book anyway.

Cheers for the offer for help DT. Ill definitly take you up on the offer :)