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Dragon's Tail
12-11-2017, 03:38 AM
Just curious. I've been thinking a lot about ammonia and CO2 from the air dissolving in water, magnetic moments of said particles, etc etc. Have any of you guys who are making this concentrated water tried running your traps at differing temperatures?

Water dissolves gases better when it's cold. Maybe it can pull in the "oil" better at colder temps as well. Since winter is on in the northern hemisphere, I'm thinking about constructing some kind of trap based on what I've learned here, and some other things I want to test.

Have any of you managed a solid precipitate by using salty water? Like the initial stages of the Solvay process, but from regular air?

Cyrano
12-11-2017, 06:10 PM
I've done something similar:
https://www.labyrinthdesigners.org/alchemic-authors-1598-1832/orthelius-commentary-on-sendivogius-chapter-5/

But I do not understand the reason for implementing modern magnetic devices to Alchemy, considering that Nature gives us the materials of the Great Work, ready to be used in the Great Cooking. The alchemists did not have modern technology;they did not use the magnetic fields;yet they produced better results than the most modern particle accelerators. The ability to catalyze a chemical reaction its one thing, while the ability to transmute the elements its another different one. They are two unrelated things. Rather I would concentrate on the correct use of the oven, which its the one that, together with a correct combination of common chemical substances, produce the Fermenting Substance useful for our purpose.There is no Secret Fire,but the secret use of the fire.

Dragon's Tail
12-12-2017, 02:30 AM
They certainly had a different viewpoint on a lot of things. So I'm sure there are steps that are easier for us and steps that were easier for them. That's why I try to look at things through a simple eye. I mean, I research the analytical side to death to, right? I spend a lot of time on the laptop anyway, and it's easy and fun to learn about certain things. But other things can only be "seen" or "discovered" in the flask, and there isn't always a handy explanation. That's why on my herbal preparations I've decided to stop chasing little stones and focus on purifying/concentrating the healing/medicinal/metaphysical properties of what is in front of me, using intuition and experiment.

Same thing with "my" water that I'm preparing. With the oily substances I've already created, I still have no chemical explanation that fits, but I can see the change in the flask. So in the end, I'll try a bunch of stuff and then test the substances that "feel right" for the qualities that I'm looking for, or any curious qualities that show up. Read and compare notes with my alchemy pictures and chemistry stuff from the internet, and keep moving forward.

Thanks for the link. It was insightful, and gave me something else to think about. I feel much the same way about thermometers. They are helpful, but smell and sight have told me what I really needed to know so far, despite what the thermometer says, and this was a tool that the ancients didn't have. Yet I suggested trying the same experiment at different temps. Night time outside is cold in most places, most of the year. The sun is warm, and different types of reactions favor different conditions. The ancients would have known this even without thermometers, but they may have qualified things differently based on their observations.

"The father is the sun, and the mother is the moon," could very well be referring to (not saying it is, but just as an example), a womb that is prepared at night (in the cold/frosty air) and then reacted in the day, via the sun. The womb is created by water collected under the moonlight, and the "seed" is planted by the golden orb. Together a child is born. Just one possible interpretation from trying to put my head in their place. The moon could also refer to a salt, and the sun to another substance. My thought is that due to the nature of the words, they refer to multiple things happening at the same time, not to any one simple process.

In any case, I believe more and more that the water we collect can be directly influenced by the conditions in which it is collected, not only in a chemical manifestation, i.e. deliquescence, but also in a physical one, that out of the mixture of water available, certain types will make themselves more available under certain conditions, not to mention the billion other chemical compounds that are affected in such a way.

I can't prove it, but I know my salt is always different after it's been dried from solution in a boiling flask. With any salt, it's stable when it goes in, and then after it comes out, it will climb straight out of whatever container I place it in within a few days. EVERY salt that I have tried, NaCl with/without iodine, pink salt, sea salt, ect. Haven't been able to find an answer for that in any of my chemistry research.

Michael Sternbach
12-12-2017, 11:44 AM
I've done something similar:
https://www.labyrinthdesigners.org/alchemic-authors-1598-1832/orthelius-commentary-on-sendivogius-chapter-5/

But I do not understand the reason for implementing modern magnetic devices to Alchemy, considering that Nature gives us the materials of the Great Work, ready to be used in the Great Cooking. The alchemists did not have modern technology;they did not use the magnetic fields;yet they produced better results than the most modern particle accelerators. The ability to catalyze a chemical reaction its one thing, while the ability to transmute the elements its another different one. They are two unrelated things. Rather I would concentrate on the correct use of the oven, which its the one that, together with a correct combination of common chemical substances, produce the Fermenting Substance useful for our purpose.There is no Secret Fire,but the secret use of the fire.

Obviously, there has been refinement in alchemical experimentation over the centuries, e.g. some of the equipment available today is clearly superior to anything the practitioners of yore had at their disposal. While I agree that we should honour the ancient methods, I look at alchemy as an evolving art and science, and I commend sensible research including methods, substances and forces unknown (were they really in every case?) to the old masters.

Cyrano
12-12-2017, 11:09 PM
Obviously, there has been refinement in alchemical experimentation over the centuries, e.g. some of the equipment available today is clearly superior to anything the practitioners of yore had at their disposal. While I agree that we should honour the ancient methods, I look at alchemy as an evolving art and science, and I commend sensible research including methods, substances and forces unknown (were they really in every case?) to the old masters.

I agree that alchemy its a science and that all the sciences evolve with time, but, according to my personal experience, there is no need for us to deviate much from the ancient modus operandi to produce tangible results. And I'm talking about things that can not be explained according to the canons of modern science ...

alfr
12-13-2017, 06:23 AM
I've done something similar:
https://www.labyrinthdesigners.org/alchemic-authors-1598-1832/orthelius-commentary-on-sendivogius-chapter-5/

But I do not understand the reason for implementing modern magnetic devices to Alchemy, considering that Nature gives us the materials of the Great Work, ready to be used in the Great Cooking. The alchemists did not have modern technology;they did not use the magnetic fields;yet they produced better results than the most modern particle accelerators. The ability to catalyze a chemical reaction its one thing, while the ability to transmute the elements its another different one. They are two unrelated things. Rather I would concentrate on the correct use of the oven, which its the one that, together with a correct combination of common chemical substances, produce the Fermenting Substance useful for our purpose.There is no Secret Fire,but the secret use of the fire.

Hi Cyrano interesting experiment can you elaborate on how you built the device similar to that of ortelius mamor spongia and its operation?
ps
this reminds me of similar experiments WITH MAGNETITE STONE RAYS OF SUN AND MOON ETC and special mirrors built with a special metal amalgam built specifically to attract from the air the SM oil.
That I all found on some manuscript RC of FEDERICO GUALDI (Gualdi some different methods for take SM by air or sun similar at metodos give in the book hyle coahyle)
and inside a some different versions of of solar alchemy manuscript RC : arcana divina /silentium dei

(and perhaps about all it would be very interesting to go into this together as you are developing these aspects of research on various methods of attracting oil SM)

my best regard alfr

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,

Hi Cyrano esperimento interessante puoi approfondire come tu hai costruito l'apparecchio similare a quello della mamor spongia di ortelius e il suo funzionamento?
ps
questo mi ricorda esperimenti similari CON MAGNETITE STONE, RAGGI DI SOLE E LUNA ETC e specchi speciali costruiti con una speciale amalgama di metalli costruiti appositamente per attrarre dall'aria lo SM olio.
Che trovai tutto cio su dei manoscritti RC di FEDERICO GUALDI (Gualdi some different methods for take SM by air or sun similar at metodos give in the book hyle coahyle)
e all'interno di alcune diverse versione dei manoscritti di alchimia solare RC : arcana divina/silentium dei

(e forse sarebbe circa tutto cio molto interessante approfondire assieme cio visto che pure tu stai sviluppando questi aspetti di ricerca su vari metodi di attrazione dell'olio
SM )

my best regard alfr

Cyrano
12-13-2017, 09:36 AM
Hi Cyrano interesting experiment can you elaborate on how you built the device similar to that of ortelius mamor spongia and its operation?
ps
this reminds me of similar experiments WITH MAGNETITE STONE RAYS OF SUN AND MOON ETC and special mirrors built with a special metal amalgam built specifically to attract from the air the SM oil.
That I all found on some manuscript RC of FEDERICO GUALDI (Gualdi some different methods for take SM by air or sun similar at metodos give in the book hyle coahyle)
and inside a some different versions of of solar alchemy manuscript RC : arcana divina /silentium dei

(and perhaps about all it would be very interesting to go into this together as you are developing these aspects of research on various methods of attracting oil SM)

my best regard alfr

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,

Hi Cyrano esperimento interessante puoi approfondire come tu hai costruito l'apparecchio similare a quello della mamor spongia di ortelius e il suo funzionamento?
ps
questo mi ricorda esperimenti similari CON MAGNETITE STONE, RAGGI DI SOLE E LUNA ETC e specchi speciali costruiti con una speciale amalgama di metalli costruiti appositamente per attrarre dall'aria lo SM olio.
Che trovai tutto cio su dei manoscritti RC di FEDERICO GUALDI (Gualdi some different methods for take SM by air or sun similar at metodos give in the book hyle coahyle)
e all'interno di alcune diverse versione dei manoscritti di alchimia solare RC : arcana divina/silentium dei

(e forse sarebbe circa tutto cio molto interessante approfondire assieme cio visto che pure tu stai sviluppando questi aspetti di ricerca su vari metodi di attrazione dell'olio
SM )

my best regard alfr

Ok ,alfr
If you are able to procure me a decent translation of the text of Arcana Divina, the version with the part dedicated to the use of lenses with the moonlight, I will be happy to explain the missing part of the marmor spongia device.But I warn you that I will do it here, in this public forum, for the benefit of everyone.

alfr
12-13-2017, 10:19 AM
Hi dear Cyrano SURE very good I total agree with you

sure clear and open sure sure i and my group agape prometeo i agree by always (and about this read many our post in forum) about the our opinion of sharing open for all we by always we are total agree we think the alchemy sharing can change the tragic future for all etc

(SURE (sharing open and clear NB as they also said and indicated to do in their books and manuscripts the RC in past centuries (and this NB is the true story and anyone can see just read with honest their texts and various writings) BUT indications that then from they RC that always are by many researchers and alchimists always disregarded it ...)

so
sure very good sharing open sure yes manor spongia clear open for all forum i am and my group by always we are total agree

of arcana divina i have a one version in french complete of my version publish by us prometeo group in italy (as also for the reason tell before ) we have publish the integral our translation of RC manuscript thesauro thesaurorun etc but it is big kb

so give your email i attach it

my best regard alfr

Cyrano
12-13-2017, 07:54 PM
Hi dear Cyrano SURE very good I total agree with you

sure clear and open sure sure i and my group agape prometeo i agree by always (and about this read many our post in forum) about the our opinion of sharing open for all we by always we are total agree we think the alchemy sharing can change the tragic future for all etc

(SURE (sharing open and clear NB as they also said and indicated to do in their books and manuscripts the RC in past centuries (and this NB is the true story and anyone can see just read with honest their texts and various writings) BUT indications that then from they RC that always are by many researchers and alchimists always disregarded it ...)

so
sure very good sharing open sure yes manor spongia clear open for all forum i am and my group by always we are total agree

of arcana divina i have a one version in french complete of my version publish by us prometeo group in italy (as also for the reason tell before ) we have publish the integral our translation of RC manuscript thesauro thesaurorun etc but it is big kb

so give your email i attach it

my best regard alfr

Hello, alfr
I tried to send you a private message,but your box its full.
I'm sorry to announce that my partner with whom I designed and built the Orthelius device, does not agree to make public the details of our apparatus, and since I don't want to be indebted, dont send me your text,because I cannot help you in any way. I'm very sorry, but I did not expected this type of reaction from him.
I hope I did not cause too much trouble.

Best Regards,
Cyrano.

Michael Sternbach
12-13-2017, 08:48 PM
Hello Alfr

Would you send me a copy of the Arcana Divina please? :)

I am very interested in this topic of obtaining the SM in an optical way ever since I read about it in Alexander von Bernus' Alchymie und Heilkunst.

My email address is [email address removed].

I would really appreciate it.

Best regards

Michael

Schmuldvich
12-13-2017, 10:13 PM
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Cyrano
12-14-2017, 12:00 AM
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alfr
12-14-2017, 01:00 PM
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Cyrano
12-14-2017, 07:28 PM
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alfr
12-14-2017, 09:58 PM
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