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Schmuldvich
12-12-2017, 08:16 AM
From one comes two comes a third thing.

This is Alchemy.





https://i.imgur.com/WDPHCl2.jpg


Origin, Separation, Conjunction

or

Unity, Duality, Harmony









"An Explanation of the Natural Philosopher’s Tincture of Theophrastus Paraceslus" by Alexander von Suchten, 1550

Having taken the [one] right philosophical matter, you are now to extract from it [two] things contained therein, viz., the Eagle, and then the Body, which, as Everlasting Balsam, contains also the [third] thing, the Spiritual Soul, the Golden Glitter, or true gold seed.









"The Book Concerning The Tincture Of The Philosophers" by Paracelsus, 1600

This spiritual Essence, or One Thing, was revealed from above to Adam, and was greatly desired by the Holy Fathers; this also Hermes and Aristotle call the Truth without Lies, the most sure of all things certain, the Secret of all Secrets. It is sought by many and found by few. In its [first] state, it appears as an impure earthly body, full of imperfections. In its [second] nature, it appears as a watery body, somewhat more beautiful than before, because (although still having its corruptions) its Virtue is greater. But in its [third] nature it appears as an aerial body, of an oily nature, almost freed from all imperfections, in which form it does many wondrous works.









"Twelve Keys" by Basil Valentine, 1618

Our Stone, as it has been bequeathed to me by the Ancients, is derived from [two] things, and [one] thing, in which is concealed a [third] thing. This is the purest truth, and a most faithful saying. For male and female have from of old been regarded as one body, not from any external or visible consideration, but on account of the ardour of that mutual love which naturally draws them together into one; and as the male and female seed jointly represent the principle of propagation, so also the sperm of the matter out of which our Stone is made can be sown and increased. Know that our seed is produced in the following way. A celestial influence descends from above, by the decree and ordinance of God, and mingles with the astral proper ties. When this [one] union has taken place, the [two] bring forth a [third].









"Book Of Alze", 1625

I shall speak not only about our [one] ore, but also about our union or conjunction of water and mercury. These [two], body and spirit, have a [third] thing which represents their common substance.









"Dwellings Of The Philosophers" by Fulcanelli, 1929

The matter, long subjected to the action of the flame, yields its impure scorched parts to it. Thus fire, by its frequent reiterated action on water, forces the latter to better defend its specific qualities by abandoning its superfluities. The water contracts, tightens itself to resist Vulcan’s tyrannical influence; it is nourished by fire which aggregates its pure and homogeneous molecules, and finally it is coagulated into a dense corporeal mass. The [one] body on which we operate, is more earthly than heavenly. It is useful to know that the brief but violent fight fought by the knight only ceases with the death of both champions (hermetically, the eagle and the lion) and their union into a new body whose alchemical signature is the griffin. The combination of the [two] initial matters, one volatile, the other fixed, produces a [third] body, fixed, which marks the first stage of the stone of the philosophers.





https://i.imgur.com/Iez90Wd.png





One member here seems to clearly understands this Truth...




Our matter begins as [one]


It is separated into [two] components

(Many scripts begin here)


The two components give rise to a [third] component

(A philosophical marriage occurs)


All components recombine and morph into a fixed component

(This component is the regenerated matter, fertile soil)


The two things are begotten of one thing. The coction of the two yields a third thing.

Andro
12-12-2017, 01:16 PM
One member here seems to clearly understand this Truth...

First, let's refer to the text as it was posted, with GW as the subject.


Our matter begins as GW

It is separated into two components.

(Many scripts begin here)

The two components give rise to a third component

(A philosophical marriage occurs)

All components recombine and morph into a fixed component

(This component is the regenerated matter, fertile soil)
Some texts begin here.

Just out of curiosity - did you omit his mention of GW from your quote because it's not part of "the truth"?

Apparently, another, much "older" member, also seems to clearly understand the "truth" :)


I advise you to pay great attention to the boiling of the water; do not let your spirit be troubled about things of less importance.

Make it boil slowly then let it putrefy till it has attained the fitting color, for the Water of Life contains the germ of wisdom.

In boiling, the water will transform itself into earth.

This earth will change into a pure crystalline fluid which will produce a fine red Fire;

And this water and this Fire, reduced to a single Essence, produce the great Panacea composed of sweetness and strength - the Lamb and the Lion united.

JDP
12-12-2017, 04:50 PM
Actually apparently none of the mentioned people seem to understand it, since this mysterious and elusive "one matter" does NOT EXIST ANYWHERE ALREADY MADE FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE, IT HAS TO BE MADE BY THE ALCHEMIST HIMSELF FROM SEVERAL MATTERS. That's how alchemy actually starts (and therefore the part upon which the most confusion, obscurities, vagueness, enigmas, misleads, etc. have been thrown by many writers), and not by luckily stumbling upon some mysterious and nowhere-to-be-found single substance that can accomplish everything the alchemists describe. Posting the same old and already explained, refuted and/or clarified carefully selected quotations from some texts won't accomplish anything positive. They will still be sending hopeful seekers into blind alleys if such clarifications of what is REALLY MEANT by the misleading label of "one matter" are not made first.

Kiorionis
12-12-2017, 05:42 PM
Our matter begins as GW

It is separated into two components.
(Many scripts begin here)

The two components give rise to a third component
(A philosophical marriage occurs)

All components recombine and morph into a fixed component
(This component is the regenerated matter, fertile soil)
Some texts begin here.

And how does this not qualify as a product made from several products?

JDP
12-12-2017, 05:44 PM
Apparently, another, much "older" member, also seems to clearly understand the "truth" :)

But if you don't know how and out of what that "water" is itself composed, that description will not help you beyond a general description of what happens to it during its "coction". And I invite you and everyone else who still holds some hopeful lingering belief in the "one matter only" gimmick to find any such "water" anywhere in nature, either "crude" or already made. Good luck. You have much higher chances of winning the lottery than finding a place where nature has somehow been able to accomplish the necessary operations on the necessary matters to "concoct" this "water". The odds against that ever happening without man's purposeful & intelligent hand intervening would be ASTRONOMICAL.

JDP
12-12-2017, 05:48 PM
And how does this not qualify as a product made from several products?

It depends on what "GW" is supposed to mean.

Illen A. Cluf
12-12-2017, 06:25 PM
It depends on what "GW" is supposed to mean.

They mean "golden water". In other words, urine. The mysterious "earth" or "salt" they derive from this is mostly saltpeter crystals - which is also their "fire". The "air" is ammonia. Thus they have the four elements all together in "one thing", which they "mine" from the human body.

Sounds great, and on the surface, appears to be a very simplistic view of all the alchemical principles. The only huge thing they overlooked, was one of the first main principles of alchemy, i.e. urine is from the animal kingdom, NOT the mineral kingdom.

They will argue that urine "contains" minerals, but that is a huge joke, since just about everything contains minerals. Irregardless of this, the alchemists were very specific about separating the three kingdoms, and often stressed that urine or other animal and plant sources, did not constitute any part of the Stone.

Schmuldvich
12-12-2017, 08:06 PM
First, let's refer to the text as it was posted, with GW as the subject. Just out of curiosity - did you omit his mention of GW from your quote because it's not part of "the truth"?

Apparently, another, much "older" member, also seems to clearly understand the "truth" :)

I omitted it and the rest of the post because it was not relevant to the topic I was posting. I knew JDP was going to have another near-aneurysm and intense compulsion to go into defense mode as Almighty God And Prince Defender Of The Art, which I accept any time I post, but what I do not want this thread to turn into is a Starting Matter debate as we already have plenty of topics at our disposal for such discussion. The One Matter circlejerk is at least in some way relevant to this thread, so I am willing to entertain JDP's compulsion once again in this thread being that it is in some way relevant to the topic but I would prefer to keep this topic specifically about One, Two, Three instead of arguing the contraire or discussing things we have already discussed (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1310-One-Matter-One-Vessel-One-Fire).

The guy who wrote "The Confession of Trithemius" was a member here? No he was not, and I'm not sure why you are presenting it this way; this text was written years ago. Feel free to add it to the quote list I posted above. Why are you phrasing it as if this author an "older member" [of this website]?



https://i.imgur.com/PUe7cxs.png

Do you have any links to other actual members presenting knowledge of One, Two, Three Truth?

I would love to add to the list if so!

Axismundi000
12-12-2017, 08:16 PM
So now people here are arguing about piss. The debate and arguement has just reached a new level.

Illen A. Cluf
12-12-2017, 08:50 PM
So now people here are arguing about piss. The debate and arguement has just reached a new level.

Who is arguing piss? Someone mentioned "GW", JDP asked what it meant, and I provided an overview of what it meant and why it is even being considered.

The problem is communication. Everyone loves to be cryptic, throw around shortform initials, and use words that mean something totally different to someone else. THAT is the entire root of the many discussions we have here.

Everyone is arguing from their own vocabulary, and nobody's wiling to define the words before they get in a "pissing" contest (pun intended!) with someone else.

I simply tried to define "GW" and why some pursue it, for the purpose of clarity (a rare effort).

And you call that a "debate and argument"? Exactly the opposite - it is an attempt at "clarification" - the RAREST of all terms used in Alchemy - by far.

Dragon's Tail
12-12-2017, 09:34 PM
The components of one, two, three could be seen as matters, as seems to be the intention. But they could also be steps. You seem to be endorsing ONE starting matter forming TWO substances with are then united to give birth to another, but that's not really registering to me. The magestry is then ONE, and if the TWO that created it are used up and spent (the parents die after the birth of the child), then we are left with ONE, rather than THREE.

I didn't capitalize those to yell, only for easy emphasis. Schmuldvich, are you saying that in the final coagulation we are in fact left with THREE substances in this thought experiment? Perhaps that the red king and white queen might be able to copulate a second or third time, and continue giving birth to more children?

JDP
12-12-2017, 10:26 PM
They mean "golden water". In other words, urine. The mysterious "earth" or "salt" they derive from this is mostly saltpeter crystals - which is also their "fire". The "air" is ammonia. Thus they have the four elements all together in "one thing", which they "mine" from the human body.

Sounds great, and on the surface, appears to be a very simplistic view of all the alchemical principles. The only huge thing they overlooked, was one of the first main principles of alchemy, i.e. urine is from the animal kingdom, NOT the mineral kingdom.

They will argue that urine "contains" minerals, but that is a huge joke, since just about everything contains minerals. Irregardless of this, the alchemists were very specific about separating the three kingdoms, and often stressed that urine or other animal and plant sources, did not constitute any part of the Stone.

Urine does not have saltpeter, but I get your point. Urine and its several byproducts are well described in the "chymical" and chemical literature. This goes back to what I pointed out in other threads: countless seekers thought that single organic-derived (i.e. animal and vegetable) substances also qualified as the possible mysterious "one matter only" that the more mischievous kind of alchemists keep babbling about, but when all was said and done, no matter how they manipulated them and whatever byproducts they managed to get from those single (but in reality complex, like most organic substances actually are, as we know very well in our times) organic natural substances, when the end result was cast on molten base metals it never transmuted them into silver or gold. Single organic substances fail to achieve the objective just about as much as single mineral substances. The whole "one matter only" thing is an obvious misleading trap, a dead-end, no matter whether the said "one matter" is mineral, vegetable or animal. It has been floating around for some 2000 years or more, and no one got anywhere with it, regardless of what single natural substance they chose to tinker with. That's simply because nature can't make the real "one matter only" in question. It's an artificial composite made by the alchemist himself out of several starting substances (and THESE nature can provide.) The amount of coincidences that would have to happen for nature to be able to put the right substances together in the right proportions and submit them to the right operations and conditions simply prevents this from practically ever happening on its own. Therefore it is useless to go around seeking it already made for your convenience. The operator himself has to make it. Nature is not going to go out of its way to make it for anyone. As George H.W. Bush would say:

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/500x/54177888/not-gonna-do-it.jpg

Andro
12-12-2017, 11:52 PM
It has become impossible to build up exchanges involving work with "one matter" (& related) without them being hijacked with variations on the same theme, over and over (and over) again. A few times here and there is OK, but this has become a serial thing, systemically derailing multiple threads.

This will have to stop now, one way or another.

If people wish to discuss their approach and/or their work with 'One Matter" as a foundation, they should be able to do so without constant interruption.

If so inclined, all further dissertations and debates on this matter(!) can be done here from now on: 'One Matter' - Discerning Truth from Deception (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5467-One-Matter-Discerning-Truth-from-Deception)

---------------------------------------------------------
This is an administrative post. Please do not reply.

Schmuldvich
12-13-2017, 12:42 AM
You seem to be endorsing ONE starting matter forming TWO substances with are then united to give birth to another, but that's not really registering to me. The magestry is then ONE, and if the TWO that created it are used up and spent (the parents die after the birth of the child), then we are left with ONE, rather than THREE.

I didn't capitalize those to yell, only for easy emphasis. Schmuldvich, are you saying that in the final coagulation we are in fact left with THREE substances in this thought experiment? Perhaps that the red king and white queen might be able to copulate a second or third time, and continue giving birth to more children?

YES! The first notion is what I am suggesting, although I would not say that the "parents" die but rather they are regenerated into a new form.

From ONE Matter comes TWO substances comes a THIRD thing.

The topic title "One, Two, Three" was used because it is catchy and rolls off the tongue well, not because I was implying that we are left with three substances.

If you would like to get technical or hone in on semantics, indeed it very well could be said that three substances are formed, but not that we are left with three substances...The three substances formed from our One Matter being the Active and Passive substances (two altogether: one fixed, the other volatile) and finally our Regenerated Matter (the third thing).

2 Polarities + 1 Regenerated Matter = 3 Substances derived from One Starting Matter.

As for the last part of your post regarding our King and our Queen I am not qualified to comment on that, so I cannot state my opinion on that right now.

Always a pleasure to read your posts, Dragon's Tail! You always bring something refreshing to the table and spur fantastic discussion!


Andro, why did you phrase your comment as if the author Trithemius was an "older member" of this website? Were you able to find any members from this message board that demonstrate an understanding of "One, Two, Three"?

Andro
12-13-2017, 12:52 AM
Andro, why did you phrase your comment as if the author Trithemius was an "older member" of this website?

Member of the "gang", not of the site :)

I think his short piece is one of the more elucidating on the topic.

Dragon's Tail
12-13-2017, 12:55 AM
YES!
From ONE Matter comes TWO substances comes a THIRD thing.

2 Polarities + 1 Regenerated Matter = 3 Substances derived from One Starting Matter.

As for the last part of your post regarding our King and our Queen I am not qualified to comment on that, so I cannot state my opinion on that right now.

Always a pleasure to read your posts, Dragon's Tail! You always bring something refreshing to the table and spur fantastic discussion!
[/I]

Opinions always welcome to me. Most of what I write is speculation, and I try to point that out unless I'm posting actual lab results. In the meantime, you've probably seen this before. I've spent a lot of time looking at this image as it encapsulates almost exactly my spagyric work. From The Vessel of Hermes

https://i.imgur.com/yrmgFSb.jpg
edit: though I'm certain that dragon is facing the wrong direction, lol.

Kibric
12-13-2017, 10:03 PM
(two altogether: one fixed, the other volatile) and finally our Regenerated Matter (the third thing).
if i understand you correctly, you discard the dregs once you have drawn the oil from it ?
and proceed to " turning water to earth is the hardest part "
using the hyle by itself to " Regenerated Matter (the third thing) "

Schmuldvich
12-13-2017, 11:10 PM
if i understand you correctly, you discard the dregs once you have drawn the oil from it ?
and proceed to " turning water to earth is the hardest part "
using the hyle by itself to " Regenerated Matter (the third thing) "


We need to keep in mind that nothing is taken away and nothing is added to our Work.

Our Matter is One and the way we progress to our Universal Solvent is a straightforward approach that mimics that of such Adepts as Artephius, Trevisan, and Sendivogius.

It could be said that our Chaos forms itself into a Lion and an Eagle that then turn into a Griffin.



Or simply put..


Our one Matter separates into two Polarities. These two Polarities conjoin to form a Third.

Kibric
12-14-2017, 03:45 AM
We need to keep in mind that nothing is taken away and nothing is added to our Work.
My experience on one, two , three

the earth sweats its own clear water, which rains back down upon it
the earth then soaks its own clear water up

at the same time
the clear water and earth mingle
heat causes the fixing earth to slowly secrete an Oil (liquid crystal) contained within the earth, into its own clear water
tinging the clear water (golden) and making it heavier


From the which Raymond commands an oil to be drawn; from the lead of the philosophers, saith he, let there be an oil drawn of a golden colour
the Oil (liquid crystal) is drawn out from the earth into the clear water
a reverse capillary reaction

if you can separate this oil from its phlegm, which is its waterishness,
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/ripfivepreps.html

Then it must be purged of its watery and earthy nature (for at first it appears an earthy, heavy, thick, slimy,
and misty body), and all that is thick, nebulous, opaque, and dark in
it must be removed, that thus, by a final sublimation, the heart and inner soul contained in it may be separated and reduced to a Precious essence.

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/sophic2.html
we can choose to throw away the earth we started with (its watery and earthy nature)
if the clear water has become thoroughly mixed/conjoined with the Oil (liquid crystal) that the earth secreted
its own Liquid crystal we need to compact in order to regenerate a new body/earth
" Turning water to earth "
we dont restore the 1st body/earth that we drew the Oil from, we regenerate a new body/earth from scratch using the Oil
compacting the Oil (liquid crystal) with pressure so it becomes a "salt "

This "salt " when melted becomes

It is named the water of life, the purest and most blessed water,
yet not the water of the clouds, or of any common spring but a thick, permanent, salt, and (in a certain sense)
dry water, which wets not the hand, a slimy water which springs out of the fatness of the earth.

Schmuldvich
12-14-2017, 05:47 AM
My experience on one, two , three

the earth sweats its own clear water, which rains back down upon it
the earth then soaks its own clear water up

at the same time
the clear water and earth mingle
heat causes the fixing earth to slowly secrete an Oil (liquid crystal) contained within the earth, into its own clear water
tinging the clear water (golden) and making it heavier


From the which Raymond commands an oil to be drawn; from the lead of the philosophers, saith he, let there be an oil drawn of a golden colour

the Oil (liquid crystal) is drawn out from the earth into the clear water
a reverse capillary reaction


if you can separate this oil from its phlegm, which is its waterishness

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/ripfivepreps.html


Then it must be purged of its watery and earthy nature (for at first it appears an earthy, heavy, thick, slimy,
and misty body), and all that is thick, nebulous, opaque, and dark in
it must be removed, that thus, by a final sublimation, the heart and inner soul contained in it may be separated and reduced to a Precious essence.

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/sophic2.html
we can choose to throw away the earth we started with (its watery and earthy nature)
if the clear water has become thoroughly mixed/conjoined with the Oil (liquid crystal) that the earth secreted
its own Liquid crystal we need to compact in order to regenerate a new body/earth
" Turning water to earth "
we dont restore the 1st body/earth that we drew the Oil from, we regenerate a new body/earth from scratch using the Oil
compacting the Oil (liquid crystal) with pressure so it becomes a "salt "

This "salt " when melted becomes


It is named the water of life, the purest and most blessed water,
yet not the water of the clouds, or of any common spring but a thick, permanent, salt, and (in a certain sense)
dry water, which wets not the hand, a slimy water which springs out of the fatness of the earth.

Wise words, Kibric!!

I absolutely cannot dispute or refute any of this. It is all in agreement with the Philosophers and proves that you have more Knowledge than most.

Excellent quotes too! Thank you for sharing your experience with "One, Two, Three" and taking the time to post appropriate quotes. This is a most wonderful and highly admirable post.

Luxus
12-15-2017, 12:42 AM
1004http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1004&d=1513298318

Schmuldvich
02-23-2018, 09:36 PM
Luxus, have you much experience or knowledge of the tetractys?

The tetractys goes way back to the Pythagorean era and is rich with symbolism that we can learn from regarding our Art.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

And on the topic of One, Two, Three...








"The New Chemical Light" by Michael Sendivogius, 1674

The Artist only separates what is subtle from its grosser elements, and puts it into the proper "vessel." Nature does the rest. As a thing begins, so it ends. Out of one arise two, and out of two one -- as of God the Father there was begotten God the Son, and from the two proceeded God the Holy Ghost. Thus was the world made, and so also shall it end. Consider carefully these few points, and you will find, firstly the Father, then the Father and the Son, lastly, the Holy Spirit. You will find the four elements, the four luminaries, the two celestials, the two centrics. In a word there is nothing, has been, and shall be nothing in the World which is otherwise than it appears in this symbol, and a volume might be filled with its mysteries. I say, therefore, it is the attribute of God alone to make one out of one, you must produce one thing out of two by natural generation.

Awani
02-23-2018, 10:05 PM
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1004&d=1513298318

https://image.ibb.co/dKHyHc/alch_copy.jpg

:p

JDP
02-24-2018, 12:48 AM
Luxus, have you much experience or knowledge of the tetractys?

The tetractys goes way back to the Pythagorean era and is rich with symbolism that we can learn from regarding our Art.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

And on the topic of One, Two, Three...







I say, therefore, it is the attribute of God alone to make one out of one, you must produce one thing out of two by natural generation.

Ooooops, there goes the "one matter only" idea down the drain again! Plus also from the same author:

Concealed under a rock, Neptune shewed me two minerals of that island, gold and chalybs (steel). Then I was conducted to an orchard in the middle of a meadow, which was at no great distance, the same being planted with a great variety of beautiful trees. Among these he shewed me seven enriched by particular names; and two of them towered above the rest. One bore fruit which shone like the sun, and its leaves resembled gold; the fruit of the other was whiter than lilies, and its leaves were like fine silver. Neptune called the first the Solar, and the second he Lunar tree. The only thing which it was difficult to obtain in the island, was water. The inhabitants had tried to get it from a spring by means of a conduit, and to elicit it from many things But the result was a poisonous water, and the only water that could be drunk was that condensed out of the rays of the sun and moon. The worst of it was, that no one could attract more than ten parts of this water. It was wonderful water! I can tell vou; for I saw with my eyes and touched with my hands its dazzling whiteness, which surpassed all the splendour of the now. While I stood wrapt in admiration, Neptune vanished from my sight, and there stood before me a tall man, on whose forehead the name of Saturn was inscribed. He took a vessel, and scooped up ten parts of the water, in which he placed fruit from the Solar tree; and the fruit was consumed like ice in warm water. So I said unto him: "Lord, I behold here a marvellous thing. This water is small in quantity; nevertheless, the fruit of this tree is consumed therein by a gentle heat. To what purpose is all this? "He graciously replied " My son, it is true that this thing is wonderful. But this water is the water of life, and has such power to exalt the qualities of this fruit, that it shall afterwards, without sowing or planting -- only by its fragrance -- transmute the six trees which remain into its own nature. Moreover, this water is as a woman to the fruit: the fruits of this tree can putrefy nowhere but in this water; and though the fruit by itself be wonderful and precious -- yet when it putrefies in this water, it brings forth out of this putrefaction a Salamander that endures the fire; its blood is more precious than all treasures, and has power to render fertile ix trees such as you see here, and to make their fruit sweeter than honey" Then I said unto him: "Lord, how is this thing done?" He replied: "I have already told thee that the fruits of the Solar tree are living, and they are sweet; but whereas the fruit while it is cooked in this water can inform but one part, after its coction has been completed it can inform a thousand." I then enquired whether the fruit was boiled in this water over a fierce fire, and how long? He answered this water has an inward fire, and when this is assisted by continuous outward warmth, it burns up three parts of its own body with this body of the fruit, until nothing but an incredibly small part remains, which, however, possesses the most marvellous virtue. This is cooked by the wise Master first for seven months, and then for ten. But in the meantime, on each fiftieth day, a variety of phenomena is witnessed." Again I besought him whether this fruit was cooked in several waters and whether anything was added to it. He made answer: "There is no water, either in this island or in the whole country but only this kind alone that can properly penetrate the pores of this fruit; and you should know the Solar tree also grew out of this water, which is collected by magnetic attraction out of the rays of the Sun and Moon. Hence the fruit and the water exhibit a wonderful sympathy and correspondence. If any foreign substance were added to the water, its virtue would only be impaired. Hence nothing should be put into the water but this fruit. After its decoction the fruit has life and blood, and its blood causes all barren trees to bring forth the same precious fruit." I asked whether the water was obtained by any secret process, or whether it was to be obtained everywhere? He said: "It is found everywhere, and no one can live without it, but it is best when extracted by means of our Chalybs (steel), as which is found in the belly of the Ram. If you ask what is its use, I answer that before the due amount of coction has been performed, it is deadly poison, but afterwards it is the Great Medicine, and yields 29 grains of blood, each one of which produces 864 of the fruits of the Solar tree.

Oooooops! Same author again:

For this reason I repeat that it is important to know the mutual correspondence of metals, and their possibilities of union. There is one metal which has power to consume all others, for it is, so to speak, their water, and almost their mother, and is resisted only by the radical humour of gold and silver, and ameliorated by it. This metal is called Chalybs (steel). If gold is united to it eleven times, and emits its seed, it is weakened even unto death; but the Chalybs (steel) conceives and brings forth a son much nobler than the father; and when the seed of the son is placed in her womb it purifies it, and renders it a thousand times better fitted to produce excellent fruit. There is another Chalybs (steel) which is like this one, and created as a thing by itself by Nature this steel is able, with its wonderful virtue, to elicit from the rays of the " sun " that which so many have sought, and which is the chief principle of our Art.

Oooops! And the same author yet again:

Our discourse in preceding chapters has been enlarged by appropriate examples which well facilitate the understanding of the practice, which, in accordance with natural procedure, must be performed as follows: take eleven grains of our earth, by as many doses, one grain of our gold, and two grains of our silver. Here you should carefully bear in mind that common gold and silver are of no use for our purpose, as they are dead. Those which I ask you to take are the living metals. Expose them to the heat of our fire, and there will come out of them a dry liquid. The earth will first be dissolved into a water which is called Mercury of the Sages, and this water will dissolve the bodies of the gold and silver, and consume them, till only the tenth part with one part remains, which is the radical metallic humour. Then take the water of saltpetre from our earth, in which is a living river and a flowing wave. Let this water be clear, and pour on it the radical humour: expose the whole to the fire of putrefaction and generation, which is not the same as that of the first operation. Regulate the heat judiciously, until there appear colours like those of the Peacock's Tail, and then continue to apply this well-regulated heat until the colours resolve themselves into a pronounced green. Be not weary but continue till the rest of the colours have manifested.

Oooops! And AGAIN!:

Then Saturn said to him, observe well what I do, and learn. He took two Argents-Vive of a different substance, but of the same root, which Saturn washed in his own urine, and denominated them the Sulphurs of Sulphurs: then he mixed the fixed with the volatile; and having made a Composition thereof, he put them into a proper vessel; and lest the Sulphur should make his escape, he set a guard over him, after which he put him thus, into a bath of a very slow fire, as the matter required, and so finished his work mighty well. They made then the Stone of the Philosophers, because that of a good matter, a good thing is produced.

Ooooops! 2 "Argent-Vives (obvious decknamen to hide what substances are actually being used) of a DIFFERENT SUBSTANCE but of the same (mineral/metallic) root" + 1 "Urine of Saturn" (another obvious deckname, this time to hide the secret solvent) = at least 3 separate substances being employed in these operations, not "one only". Bye-bye again, "one matter only" ruse.

Aham
02-24-2018, 01:39 AM
I say, therefore, it is the attribute of God alone to make one out of one, you must produce one thing out of two by natural generation.

Ooooops, there goes the "one matter only" idea down the drain again! Plus also from the same author:

Concealed under a rock, Neptune shewed me two minerals of that island, gold and chalybs (steel). Then I was conducted to an orchard in the middle of a meadow, which was at no great distance, the same being planted with a great variety of beautiful trees. Among these he shewed me seven enriched by particular names; and two of them towered above the rest. One bore fruit which shone like the sun, and its leaves resembled gold; the fruit of the other was whiter than lilies, and its leaves were like fine silver. Neptune called the first the Solar, and the second he Lunar tree. The only thing which it was difficult to obtain in the island, was water. The inhabitants had tried to get it from a spring by means of a conduit, and to elicit it from many things But the result was a poisonous water, and the only water that could be drunk was that condensed out of the rays of the sun and moon. The worst of it was, that no one could attract more than ten parts of this water. It was wonderful water! I can tell vou; for I saw with my eyes and touched with my hands its dazzling whiteness, which surpassed all the splendour of the now. While I stood wrapt in admiration, Neptune vanished from my sight, and there stood before me a tall man, on whose forehead the name of Saturn was inscribed. He took a vessel, and scooped up ten parts of the water, in which he placed fruit from the Solar tree; and the fruit was consumed like ice in warm water. So I said unto him: "Lord, I behold here a marvellous thing. This water is small in quantity; nevertheless, the fruit of this tree is consumed therein by a gentle heat. To what purpose is all this? "He graciously replied " My son, it is true that this thing is wonderful. But this water is the water of life, and has such power to exalt the qualities of this fruit, that it shall afterwards, without sowing or planting -- only by its fragrance -- transmute the six trees which remain into its own nature. Moreover, this water is as a woman to the fruit: the fruits of this tree can putrefy nowhere but in this water; and though the fruit by itself be wonderful and precious -- yet when it putrefies in this water, it brings forth out of this putrefaction a Salamander that endures the fire; its blood is more precious than all treasures, and has power to render fertile ix trees such as you see here, and to make their fruit sweeter than honey" Then I said unto him: "Lord, how is this thing done?" He replied: "I have already told thee that the fruits of the Solar tree are living, and they are sweet; but whereas the fruit while it is cooked in this water can inform but one part, after its coction has been completed it can inform a thousand." I then enquired whether the fruit was boiled in this water over a fierce fire, and how long? He answered this water has an inward fire, and when this is assisted by continuous outward warmth, it burns up three parts of its own body with this body of the fruit, until nothing but an incredibly small part remains, which, however, possesses the most marvellous virtue. This is cooked by the wise Master first for seven months, and then for ten. But in the meantime, on each fiftieth day, a variety of phenomena is witnessed." Again I besought him whether this fruit was cooked in several waters and whether anything was added to it. He made answer: "There is no water, either in this island or in the whole country but only this kind alone that can properly penetrate the pores of this fruit; and you should know the Solar tree also grew out of this water, which is collected by magnetic attraction out of the rays of the Sun and Moon. Hence the fruit and the water exhibit a wonderful sympathy and correspondence. If any foreign substance were added to the water, its virtue would only be impaired. Hence nothing should be put into the water but this fruit. After its decoction the fruit has life and blood, and its blood causes all barren trees to bring forth the same precious fruit." I asked whether the water was obtained by any secret process, or whether it was to be obtained everywhere? He said: "It is found everywhere, and no one can live without it, but it is best when extracted by means of our Chalybs (steel), as which is found in the belly of the Ram. If you ask what is its use, I answer that before the due amount of coction has been performed, it is deadly poison, but afterwards it is the Great Medicine, and yields 29 grains of blood, each one of which produces 864 of the fruits of the Solar tree.

Oooooops! Same author again:

For this reason I repeat that it is important to know the mutual correspondence of metals, and their possibilities of union. There is one metal which has power to consume all others, for it is, so to speak, their water, and almost their mother, and is resisted only by the radical humour of gold and silver, and ameliorated by it. This metal is called Chalybs (steel). If gold is united to it eleven times, and emits its seed, it is weakened even unto death; but the Chalybs (steel) conceives and brings forth a son much nobler than the father; and when the seed of the son is placed in her womb it purifies it, and renders it a thousand times better fitted to produce excellent fruit. There is another Chalybs (steel) which is like this one, and created as a thing by itself by Nature this steel is able, with its wonderful virtue, to elicit from the rays of the " sun " that which so many have sought, and which is the chief principle of our Art.

Oooops! And the same author yet again:

Our discourse in preceding chapters has been enlarged by appropriate examples which well facilitate the understanding of the practice, which, in accordance with natural procedure, must be performed as follows: take eleven grains of our earth, by as many doses, one grain of our gold, and two grains of our silver. Here you should carefully bear in mind that common gold and silver are of no use for our purpose, as they are dead. Those which I ask you to take are the living metals. Expose them to the heat of our fire, and there will come out of them a dry liquid. The earth will first be dissolved into a water which is called Mercury of the Sages, and this water will dissolve the bodies of the gold and silver, and consume them, till only the tenth part with one part remains, which is the radical metallic humour. Then take the water of saltpetre from our earth, in which is a living river and a flowing wave. Let this water be clear, and pour on it the radical humour: expose the whole to the fire of putrefaction and generation, which is not the same as that of the first operation. Regulate the heat judiciously, until there appear colours like those of the Peacock's Tail, and then continue to apply this well-regulated heat until the colours resolve themselves into a pronounced green. Be not weary but continue till the rest of the colours have manifested.

Oooops! And AGAIN!:

Then Saturn said to him, observe well what I do, and learn. He took two Argents-Vive of a different substance, but of the same root, which Saturn washed in his own urine, and denominated them the Sulphurs of Sulphurs: then he mixed the fixed with the volatile; and having made a Composition thereof, he put them into a proper vessel; and lest the Sulphur should make his escape, he set a guard over him, after which he put him thus, into a bath of a very slow fire, as the matter required, and so finished his work mighty well. They made then the Stone of the Philosophers, because that of a good matter, a good thing is produced.

Ooooops! 2 "Argent-Vives (obvious decknamen to hide what substances are actually being used) of a DIFFERENT SUBSTANCE but of the same (mineral/metallic) root" + 1 "Urine of Saturn" (another obvious deckname, this time to hide the secret solvent) = at least 3 separate substances being employed in these operations, not "one only". Bye-bye again, "one matter only" ruse.

Annoying, funny and a smart ass. I think Andro would add pain in the ass... Mods, just making a random comment. Not directed at anyone :cool:

Kibric
02-24-2018, 04:24 AM
its almost like theres something more behind this crusade against one matter


I asked whether the water was obtained by any secret process, or whether it was to be obtained everywhere? He said:"It is found everywhere, and no one can live without it,
well that narrows it down...


He took two Argents-Vive of a different substance, but of the same root, which Saturn washed in his own urine, and denominated them the Sulphurs of Sulphurs: then he mixed the fixed with the volatile; and having made a Composition thereof,
same root ? different substances. one active ingredient ?
we know nature rejoices in nature
a composition from two different substances which have the same root ( active ingredient ?)
would have to be based on what element they both had in common

it is said to be available too rich and poor alike
so maybe this root or active ingredient is present in a wide number of substances and forms
if it is so easily overlooked it might have a variety of mundane forms

Kiorionis
02-24-2018, 04:41 AM
There’s a good example in Qabala, where salt and dyes are set on a table. Water is poured out and moves into each. The example goes that it’s not the water which changes the characteristics of the salt and dyes, but the salt and dyes change the characteristics of the water.

The example is supposed to show that One thing can become many through mediation and adaption.

JDP
02-24-2018, 05:36 AM
its almost like theres something more behind this crusade against one matter


well that narrows it down...

Not really... There's many things that people can't live without: water, air, salt, oils/fats, iron, blood... and those are some of the real ones, because then there's the ones that are just the product of the imagination of such writers, like the "four elements", or the "three principles", which can also be used as a pretext to befuddle readers with such strange and hardly very believable statements about the "matter" of the Stone supposedly being found "everywhere".



same root ? different substances. one active ingredient ?
we know nature rejoices in nature
a composition from two different substances which have the same root ( active ingredient ?)
would have to be based on what element they both had in common

it is said to be available too rich and poor alike
so maybe this root or active ingredient is present in a wide number of substances and forms
if it is so easily overlooked it might have a variety of mundane forms

Having the same "root" just means something with a common origin, like, for example, saying that lead and iron are two different metals, but both come from the mineral/metallic "root".

Andro
02-24-2018, 08:02 AM
I think Andro would add pain in the ass..

No, he wouldn't. Why would he? He can't be bothered with such wasteful sentiments.

On topic: 'One root" doesn't necessarily mean "metallic/mineral". This is only JDP's interpretation and perspective. Not saying it's invalid, just saying it's one possibility among others.


Having the same "root" just means something with a common origin, like, for example, saying that lead and iron are two different metals, but both come from the mineral/metallic "root".

OR,

It can also be read as the root of a tree (for example), where the branches, the leaves, the fruit, etc all have the same Root. Is the tree one matter? Or many matters?

JDP
02-24-2018, 11:07 AM
No, he wouldn't. Why would he? He can't be bothered with such wasteful sentiments.

On topic: 'One root" doesn't necessarily mean "metallic/mineral". This is only JDP's interpretation and perspective. Not saying it's invalid, just saying it's one possibility among others.



OR,

It can also be read as the root of a tree (for example), where the branches, the leaves, the fruit, etc all have the same Root. Is the tree one matter? Or many matters?

The above quoted writer is not talking about actual trees, he is talking about the mineral/metallic matters that enter the operations. He is using the mineral/metallic origin of these substances to befuddle some readers with what may appear at first sight to be a contradiction: two "mercuries" of different substance, but of the same "root".

Schmuldvich
02-25-2018, 04:10 AM
...salt and dyes are set on a table. Water is poured out and moves into each. The example goes that it’s not the water which changes the characteristics of the salt and dyes, but the salt and dyes change the characteristics of the water. The example is supposed to show that One thing can become many through mediation and adaption.


YES!








"The New Chemical Light" by Sendivogius, 1674

As the male seed is emitted into the womb of the female, where only so much as is needed is retained while the rest is driven out again, so the magnetic force of our earth-centre attracts to itself as much as is needed of the cognate seminal substance, while that which cannot be used for vital generation is thrust forth in the shape of stones and other rubbish. This is the fountain-head of all things terrestrial. Let us illustrate the matter by supposing a glass of water to be set in the middle of a table, round the margin of which are placed little heaps of salt, and of powders of different colours. If the water be poured out, it will run all over the table in divergent rivulets, and will become salt where it touches the salt, red where it dissolves the red powder, and so on. The water does not change the "places," but the several places differentiate the water. In the same way, the seed which is the product of the four elements is projected in all directions from the earth-centre, and produces different things, according to the quality of the different places. Thus, while the seed of all things is one, it is made to generate a great variety of things, just as the seed of a man might produce a man if projected into the womb of a female of his own species, or a monstrous variety of abortions, if projected into the wombs of different female animals. So long as Nature's seed remains in the centre it can indifferently produce a tree or a metal, a herb or a stone, and in like manner according to the purity of the place, it will produce what is less or more pure.

elixirmixer
02-25-2018, 08:10 AM
My interpretation and theory is starting to look like a combination of some other views here. I believe that the "One matter" is actually quite a complicated composition created by Art.

And then... after circulation, putrifaction and re-generation we have two substances. I then believe that a "dry" distillation or extraction is performed on the earth to get the Sulfur, terra damnata cast away, we are still left with two; Sulfur and Mercury; these unite back into one.

While i do think that powerful stones can be created from one matter only... i also believe that the most powerful of these stones; that expressed "universal-like" properties, were compounds created from various magnets.

Many people believe that its The Spirit only that is what we need. I believe though that; being physical creatures; we also require well selected physical assistance; and that the purpose of The Spirit, is to enliven and reveal said properties within our matter.

For example. We often use Sodium Chloride in our biology; so a batch of Sodium Chloride that goes through this one, two, one evolution is going to do similar things for the body, but on an enhanced level (very enhanced you would hope).

Hollandus and the Hand of the Philosophers are my referencing viewpoints; along with the enlivened salts work of that Charles guy i recently linked in the SM thread.

In fact this type of work is my new focus for now. Im going back to Alchemy 101 with new eyes.

Luxus
03-12-2018, 11:54 PM
1010

elixirmixer
03-13-2018, 03:02 AM
What is this figure holding Luxus?

Kibric
03-13-2018, 04:23 AM
The man is the Oil or water, his wings his volatility
his two heads signify the water is a double substance (contains a salt)
the big circle in his left hand is the circle of nature
the object in his right hand is an egg ?

JDP
03-13-2018, 05:03 AM
The much more elaborate original version of those drawings in Splendor Solis can be found in a couple of surviving 16th century manuscripts. The figure in question would be this one:

http://www.hermetics.org/solis/images/solis9.JPG

The text that accompanies this picture says (once again) that the Stone is made from several things which are GATHERED TOGETHER (i.e. mixed by the alchemist himself) and become (after the appropriate procedures) united and form "one substance" (in appearance), and that naturally-occurring substances, like eggs, are used as ANALOGIES for this artificial composite of the alchemists:

The Philosophers give to this Art two bodies, namely: Sun
and Moon, which are Earth and Water, they also call them Man
and Wife, and they bring forth four children, two boys, which
are heat and cold, and two girls, as moisture and dryness. These
are the Four Elements, constituting the QUINTESSENCE, that
is the proper white MAGNESIA, wherein there is nothing
false. In conclusion SENIOR remarks: "When these five are
gathered together, they form ONE substance, whereof is made the
natural Stone, while AVICENA contends that: "if we may get at
the Fifth, we shall have arrived at the end."

So let us understand this meaning better. The Philosophers
take for example an Egg, for in this the four elements are joined
together. The first or the shell is Earth, and the White is
Water, but the skin between the shell and the White is Air, and
separates the Earth from the Water; the Yolk is Fire, and it
too is enveloped in a subtle skin, representing our subtle air,
which is more warm and subtle, as it is nearer to the Fire, and
separates the Fire from the Water. In the middle of the Yolk
there is the Firm ELEMENT, out of which the young chicken
bursts and grows.

Thus we see in an egg all the elements combined with matter
to form a source of perfect nature, just so as it is necessary in
this noble art.

Ghislain
03-13-2018, 12:12 PM
The Image above is called "Hermaphrodite with egg". It is the ninth plate of twenty two. Was there a reason for choosing this particular plate Luxus?


Splendor Solis ("The Splendour of the Sun") is a well-known colorful alchemical text. The earliest version, written in Central German, is dated 15321535 and is housed at the Kupferstichkabinett Berlin at State Museums in Berlin. It is illuminated on vellum, with decorative borders like a book of hours, beautifully painted and heightened with gold. The later copies in London, Kassel, Paris and Nuremberg are equally fine. In all twenty copies exist worldwide.

The original of Splendor Solis which contained seven chapters appeared in Augsburg. In miniatures the works of Albrecht Drer, Hans Holbein and Lucas Cranach were used. The author of the manuscript was considered to be a legendary Salomon Trismosin, allegedly the teacher of Paracelsus. The work itself consists of a sequence of 22 elaborate images, set in ornamental borders and niches. The symbolic process shows the classical alchemical death and rebirth of the king, and incorporates a series of seven flasks, each associated with one of the planets. Within the flasks a process is shown involving the transformation of bird and animal symbols into the Queen and King, the white and the red tincture. Although the style of the Splendor Solis illuminations suggest an earlier date, they are quite clearly of the 16th century.

Source: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splendor_Solis)

1. The Arms of the art (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2001.jpg)
2. Philosopher with flask (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2002.jpg)
3. The Knight on the double fountain (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2003.jpg)
4. Solar King and Lunar Queen meet (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2004.jpg)

The Seven Parables:
5. Miners excavating hill (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2005.jpg)
6. Philosophers beside tree (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2006.jpg)
7. Drowning King (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2007(1).jpg)
8. Resurrection out of the swamp (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2008(1).jpg)
9. Hermaphrodite with egg (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2009(1).jpg)
10. Severing the head of the King (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2010(1).jpg)
11. Boiling the body in the vessel (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2011(1).jpg)

The Seven Flasks:
12. Saturn - Dragon and child (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2012(1).jpg)
13. Jupiter - Three birds (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2013(1).jpg)
14. Mars - Triple-headed bird (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2014(1).jpg)
15. Sun - Triple-headed dragon (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2015(1).jpg)
16. Venus - Peacock's Tail (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2016(1).jpg)
17. Mercury - The White Queen (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2017(1).jpg)
18. Moon - The Red King (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2018(1).jpg)

19. The dark sun (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2019(1).jpg)
20. Children at play (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2020(1).jpg)
21. Women washing clothes (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2021(1).jpg)
22. Sun rising over the city (http://bordel.haghn.com/Art/Illustration/Splendor%20Solis/AL_SS_Splendor-solis%20-%20big%2022(1).jpg)

Ghislain

Luxus
03-13-2018, 01:37 PM
What is this figure holding Luxus?

In his right hand he holds the starting matter of the Alchemists. In his left hand he holds an egg. He is contemplating the similarity of the various components which make up the starting matter with the various components which composes an egg.

Florius Frammel
03-13-2018, 01:38 PM
There is an excellent study about the art in the splendor solis:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/3422064265/ref=mp_s_a_1_5/258-7507808-7709848?ie=UTF8&qid=1520947807&sr=1-5&refinements=p_27%3AJorg+Vollnagel&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65

Unfortunately german only and not available anymore. Lots of libraries have it though.

Ghislain
03-13-2018, 01:53 PM
There is an excellent study about the art in the splendor solis:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/3422064265/ref=mp_s_a_1_5/258-7507808-7709848?ie=UTF8&qid=1520947807&sr=1-5&refinements=p_27%3AJorg+Vollnagel&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65

Unfortunately german only and not available anymore. Lots of libraries have it though.

I think this is the one you were talking about FF.

Splendor Solis Manuscript (https://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminatedmanuscripts/record.asp?MSID=7881)

I'd like to see a translated copy.

Ghislain

Ghislain
03-13-2018, 02:18 PM
It is said that the text of the Splendor Solis is based to a considerable degree on the
alchemical illuminated manuscript Aurora Consurgens from around 1410 that the author
of the Splendor Solis turned into a new text by a kind of patchwork process. However, the author
evidently did not consult one of the Latin versions from the fifteenth century, but rather
absorbed a richly illustrated German translation that dates from around 1520 and is today
kept in the Berlin Staatsbibliothek. At the same time, this manuscript also served as inspiration and
a model for many of the details within the illustrations of the Splendor Solis.

Source: (https://www.bl.uk/eblj/2011articles/pdf/ebljarticle82011.pdf)

Aurora Consurgens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_consurgens)

Ghislain

Ghislain
03-13-2018, 02:46 PM
I am not sure that the subject of the Splendor Solis is hijacking this thread.

It has been covered in another thread called Splendor Solis (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2663-Splendor-Solis)

Perhaps one of the moderators could move the posts there.

Ghislain

Florius Frammel
03-13-2018, 03:18 PM
I think this is the one you were talking about FF.

Splendor Solis Manuscript (https://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminatedmanuscripts/record.asp?MSID=7881)

I'd like to see a translated copy.

Ghislain

It is mentioned in the selected bibliography section. But not available for online reading there. Or I don't get it.

Ghislain
03-13-2018, 05:17 PM
All the pages are there if you scroll down, text in German.

Ghislain

Florius Frammel
03-13-2018, 05:28 PM
Yes, but I meant the 2004 book by Jrg Vollnagel about the splendor solis.

JDP
03-13-2018, 07:40 PM
I think this is the one you were talking about FF.

Splendor Solis Manuscript (https://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminatedmanuscripts/record.asp?MSID=7881)

I'd like to see a translated copy.

Ghislain

Splendor Solis has been translated twice into English. The first translation by "JK" (i.e. Julius Kohn), first published in 1920, can be found transcribed here:

http://www.chymist.com/Splendor%20solis.pdf

It should be noted that the traditional ascription to "Salomon/Solomon Trismosin" is quite incorrect. Contrary to Kohn's mistaken opinion, Splendor Solis is the one text that does not belong to the "corpus" of Trismosin's writings at all. The most distinctive mark of Trismosin's genuine writings are all those bizarre & often Greek-sounding names & decknamen ("Julaton", "Moratosan", "Sarlamethon", "Cangeniveron", "Nefolon", "Geroton", "Jumelothon", "Xophalat", "Jaforon", "Chybur", etc.), just like in his autobiography (which Kohn accepted as authentic, yet at the same time absurdly rejected all the other pieces in the exact same style of the genuine author hiding under the "Trismosin" pseudonym), which the Splendor Solis totally lacks. Also, contrary to the author of the Splendor Solis, who was obviously a typical alchemist and is not concerned with anything but the making of the Stone, Trismosin's genuine texts are more interested in "particulars" of all kinds (once again, just like in his autobiography, most of which is concerned with his heavy involvement in these kinds of processes, specially while he was working in the impressive laboratory of that Venetian nobleman.) Trismosin was pretty much a "chymist-alchemist": interested in the Stone, but more heavily concerned with other types of transmutation processes.

One final note on "Salomon/Solomon Trismosin": whoever he really was, he is also very obviously the same person behind the pseudonyms "Hieronymus Crinot", "Bartholomeus Korndorffer" and "Georg Biltdorff". "Coincidentally", they "all" have the exact same style and use the exact same bizarre names and decknamen that are found nowhere else in the whole literature of alchemy/chymistry except in "their" writings.

Ghislain
03-14-2018, 02:31 PM
Thanks for that link JDP.

On page 16 it says...

All this is well described by the natural master ARISTOTLE, in the fourth Book METEOROLOGICORUM,
when he says, that QUICKSILVER is a matter common to all metals. But it must be known that first in Nature is the compound matter of the four elements.

In acknowledging this property of Nature, the Philosophers called their Matter MERCURIUS, or QUICKSILVER

I looked for a translation of Aristotle's Meteorologicorum and found

"Sentencia super Meteora, COMMENTARY ON ARISTOTLE'S METEOROLOGY by Thomas Aquinas" (https://dhspriory.org/thomas/Meteora.htm)

I am not sure if this is the writings of Aristotle that the writer was referring to, but if it is I was surprised to find only one entry that mentions "quicksilver" throughout the whole text. This was at the bottom of "book IV, section 10" referenced as written by unknown author...


The bodies which do not admit of solidification are those which contain no aqueous moisture and are not watery, but in which heat and earth preponderate, like honey and must (for these are in a sort of state of effervescence), and those which do possess some water but have a preponderance of air, like oil and quicksilver, and all viscous substances such as pitch and birdlime.

No mention of quicksilver being a matter common to all metals.

My point here is that there are so many texts that all have contradictory information making alchemy a labyrinth without a map.

On page 14 of JDP's link of the Slendor Solis it says...



THIS BOOK
IS NAMED
SPLENDOR SOLIS
OR
Splendour of the Sun
AND IS DIVIDED INTO SEVEN PARTS, IN WHICH IS
DESCRIBED THE HIDDEN MYSTERY OF THE OLD
PHILOSOPHERS, AS WELL AS ALL THAT NATURE
REQUIRES TO CLEARLY ACCOMPLISH THE WHOLE
WORK, INCLUDING ALL THE ADDED T H I N G S ; A F T E R
WHICH NO ONE SHALL BE ADVISED TO GRAPPLE
WITH THE MYSTERY OF THE NOBLE ART WITH HIS
OWN SENSES.

Note the word, "clearly", is an oxymoron as there is nothing in alchemy which is clear ;)

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2014%2F3%2F24 %2F1395649181943%2FThe-Rijksmuseum-library-h-001.jpg&f=1

Which texts can be trusted, how many books should one read to get the whole picture, for as it states above, "no one shall be advised to grapple with this mystery of the noble art with his own senses", therefore one must have to rely on the senses of an outside influence. Is this influence to come from the text of others (needle in a haystack) or is there a form of collective consciousness, or as Carl Jung might put it, "collective unconsciousness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious#Evidence)", one can tap into?

Of all the texts on alchemy ask yourself why you chose a particular text to follow. It only takes one word to direct you down a different road; has anyone got a road map?

Perhaps the map is in our heads, we just need to find a way to retrieve it.

Ghislain

RIP Stephen Hawking :(

8 January 1942 – 14 March 2018

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Stephen_Hawking.StarChild.jpg

JDP
03-14-2018, 06:24 PM
Thanks for that link JDP.

On page 16 it says...


I looked for a translation of Aristotle's Meteorologicorum and found

"Sentencia super Meteora, COMMENTARY ON ARISTOTLE'S METEOROLOGY by Thomas Aquinas" (https://dhspriory.org/thomas/Meteora.htm)

I am not sure if this is the writings of Aristotle that the writer was referring to, but if it is I was surprised to find only one entry that mentions "quicksilver" throughout the whole text. This was at the bottom of "book IV, section 10" referenced as written by unknown author...



No mention of quicksilver being a matter common to all metals.

The book being referred to is obviously the "Meteorology" of Aristotle:

http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/meteorology.1.i.html

But as you can see, he did not use the word "mercury" in the sense quoted above (i.e. as one of the "principles" of metallic composition.) This was an early medieval interpretation of Aristotle's theory of metallogenesis. The "mercury" principle was how the early Muslims interpreted Aristotle's "moist vapor" in his theoretical framework of how metals/minerals were supposedly generated (the "dry smoke" was in its turn interpreted as a "sulphur" principle.) So the author of Splendor Solis is certainly using some medieval commentator of Aristotle's Meteorology rather than Aristotle's own work directly.


My point here is that there are so many texts that all have contradictory information making alchemy a labyrinth without a map.


On page 14 of JDP's link of the Slendor Solis it says...


Note the word, "clearly", is an oxymoron as there is nothing in alchemy which is clear ;)

Some are clearer than others.


Which texts can be trusted, how many books should one read to get the whole picture, for as it states above, "no one shall be advised to grapple with this mystery of the noble art with his own senses", therefore one must have to rely on the senses of an outside influence. Is this influence to come from the text of others (needle in a haystack) or is there a form of collective consciousness, or as Carl Jung might put it, "collective unconsciousness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious#Evidence)", one can tap into?

Of all the texts on alchemy ask yourself why you chose a particular text to follow. It only takes one word to direct you down a different road; has anyone got a road map?

Perhaps the map is in our heads, we just need to find a way to retrieve it.

Ghislain

Let's take a look at the quote in its proper context, and not bring in modern revisionist (mis)interpretations like those of Jung:

THIS BOOK
IS NAMED
SPLENDOR SOLIS
OR
Splendour of the Sun
AND IS DIVIDED INTO SEVEN PARTS, IN WHICH IS
DESCRIBED THE HIDDEN MYSTERY OF THE OLD
PHILOSOPHERS, AS WELL AS ALL THAT NATURE
REQUIRES TO CLEARLY ACCOMPLISH THE WHOLE
WORK, INCLUDING ALL THE ADDED THINGS; AFTER
WHICH NO ONE SHALL BE ADVISED TO GRAPPLE
WITH THE MYSTERY OF THE NOBLE ART WITH HIS
OWN SENSES.

In other words: the author is pretty much making the grandiloquent claim that this book must be followed or you will be lost. So don't try to deviate from it, even if your own experience tells you otherwise. This is plainly self-aggrandizing advertisement, something which a lot of alchemists did to promote their writings over those of others: "if you don't follow what my book says you will be hopelessly lost!" It's BS advertisement though, as the only way to know for sure if what a writer is telling you is in fact truthful is by comparing your empirical experience to what he claims. If it matches, then you might very well be on the right track and the author has been pretty honest. We can see plainer examples of this in the relatively clearer literature of "chymistry": the majority of its pretty clearly described transmutation processes are nothing but a bunch of BALONEY made up by charlatans & boasters to make people waste their time and money, yet a relative minority of them do indeed work, some of them quite literally as written, others work with some minor tinkering & changes (which are not too difficult to discover by any person experienced in these matters.) It is the same in the literature of alchemy, properly, except that the level of contradictions, obscurities, false leads, analogies, riddles, vagueness, speculations, etc., has been more exaggerated, making the whole thing even more difficult to unravel.


RIP Stephen Hawking :(

8 January 1942 14 March 2018

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Stephen_Hawking.StarChild.jpg

Who died without knowing the empirical reality of "chymical" transmutations. As Mr. T would say:

http://wwwcdn.scriptmag.com/wp-content/uploads/mr-t-pity-the-fool.jpg

Ghislain
03-14-2018, 07:48 PM
If you look at the face of Stephen Hawking above, one can imaging him reading you words JDP and thinking the same as Mr. T is saying.

Ghislain

JDP
03-14-2018, 09:34 PM
If you look at the face of Stephen Hawking above, one can imaging him reading you words JDP and thinking the same as Mr. T is saying.

Ghislain

The difference is that I know the empirical fact that he totally ignored, so I can afford to say Mr. T's famous expression.

Ghislain
03-14-2018, 09:43 PM
I would have to take your word for that JDP.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Hawking knew some empirical facts that you are not even aware you don't know.

Protons are held together by the strong force. Relative to a gravitational force of 1 the strong force would be 1x10^38...
quite an unimaginable force, and you believe that sort of force can be overcome in a beaker with a few chemicals?

Please enlighten us with the empirical fact that Stephen ignored.

Ghislain

Luxus
03-14-2018, 10:14 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/Einstein_tongue.jpg

E =MC^2

Well this guy died without knowing that C is not a universal constant but depends where in the Universe you are. Therefore time flows at a different rate depending where in the Universe you are

Awani
03-14-2018, 10:39 PM
https://image.ibb.co/h1yGjc/stephen_hawking_illusion_of_knowledge_quote.jpg

:p

Ghislain
03-14-2018, 10:53 PM
E =MC^2

Well this guy died without knowing that C is not a universal constant but depends where in the Universe you are. Therefore time flows at a different rate depending where in the Universe you are



Do you have a link to anything that shows this Luxus, I'd like to have a read through it.



Ghislain

Awani
03-14-2018, 10:53 PM
Worth to note Hawkings died on Pi day (3/14).

:p

elixirmixer
03-14-2018, 11:16 PM
Worth to note Hawkings died on Pi day (3/14).

:p

I believe that Albert Einstein was a fony. Despite the fact that he worked at a patenting office and overlooked literally hundreds of inventions; he never invented anything himself.

The Whole E=MC squared BS is already outdated in physics and has been replaced by that plumber guy who got in a massive battle with steven hawkins.

Nikola Tesla described Albert Einstein as an "Intellectual Theif" and attributed his works to that of another man who i cannot recall his name.

Also; electrons do not exist. There is no empirical evidence because hey; no ones ever seen an electron. Rather it is compression verses rarefaction where transverse electro-magnetic fields intersect in the longitudinal disection of "the ether" or perhaps better put "the zones of the lose of inertia"

There is a terrible deception going on now called "quantum physics" which once again Albert Einstein self admittingly totally failed to understand. This "Cult of Bumping Particles" is reeeeally holding back new developments in technology, (thats the idea right)

There is only one particle, a proton, which does lose and gain charge, fluctuating as protons and neutrons. They only exist because of the properties of magnetism, which open up the ether into both a precessional toroid and a reciprocating hyperboloid. This creates mass, which creates gravity. And gives the appearence of "solidity" in our 3D realm.

There are NOT whole array of strange particles such as is being taught nowdays. Its all BS. I might like to also add that all of our greatest electrical theorists (Tesla, Steinmetz, Heaviside) all denied the existance of an electron, Tesla denouncing it as "an absurd notion".

Dont believe everything they throatfuck you with :cool:

Schmuldvich
03-14-2018, 11:39 PM
I believe that Albert Einstein was a fony. Despite the fact that he worked at a patenting office and overlooked literally hundreds of inventions; he never invented anything himself.

The Whole E=MC squared BS is already outdated in physics and has been replaced by that plumber guy who got in a massive battle with steven hawkins.

Nikola Tesla described Albert Einstein as an "Intellectual Theif" and attributed his works to that of another man who i cannot recall his name.

Also; electrons do not exist. There is no empirical evidence because hey; no ones ever seen an electron. Rather it is compression verses rarefaction where transverse electro-magnetic fields intersect in the longitudinal disection of "the ether" or perhaps better put "the zones of the lose of inertia"

There is a terrible deception going on now called "quantum physics" which once again Albert Einstein self admittingly totally failed to understand. This "Cult of Bumping Particles" is reeeeally holding back new developments in technology, (thats the idea right)

There is only one particle, a proton, which does lose and gain charge, fluctuating as protons and neutrons. They only exist because of the properties of magnetism, which open up the ether into both a precessional toroid and a reciprocating hyperboloid. This creates mass, which creates gravity. And gives the appearence of "solidity" in our 3D realm.

There are NOT whole array of strange particles such as is being taught nowdays. Its all BS. I might like to also add that all of our greatest electrical theorists (Tesla, Steinmetz, Heaviside) all denied the existance of an electron, Tesla denouncing it as "an absurd notion".

Dont believe everything they throatfuck you with :cool:

Hey hey!! https://i.imgur.com/WeGxVt7.gif

This is one of your best posts yet, Elixirmixer!

Look at you on the right path!!

This is awesome to see!

I do not agree with all of what you posted, but most of it I agree with. You might find interest in reading the knowledge of WALTER RUSSELL and JOHN KEELY as well. Both have a lot to share regarding the realm you are breaching. NIKOLA TESLA knew so much but very little is still accessible for us. Walter Russell's diagrams especially might interest you. Hans Kayser did a great job furthering these ancient studies based on true Pythagorean knowledge. "Sympathetic Vibratory Physics" might interest you as well. Digging through the SVPwiki will grant you years of study material relevant to your current desires and interests.

In just a few minutes JDP is going to bash all of this, but who cares! Keep on keepin' on, my man! You're on the right track to discovering some great things!!

horticult
03-14-2018, 11:42 PM
lol
right
that axiom that c is max is baloney without any ground

Kibric
03-15-2018, 12:04 AM
The Whole E=MC squared BS is already outdated in physics and has been replaced by that plumber guy who got in a massive battle with steven hawkins.

I consider it quite possible that physics cannot be based on the field concept, i.e., on continuous structures. In that case, nothing remains of my entire castle in the air, gravitation theory included, [and of] the rest of modern physics. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

Niels Bohr
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niels_Bohr

All these fifty years of conscious brooding have brought me no nearer to the answer to the question, 'What are light quanta?' Nowadays every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks he knows it, but he is mistaken. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

great post Elixirmixer :D i can feel your passion

Dont believe everything they throatfuck you with
powerful imagery :(

Luxus
03-15-2018, 12:14 AM
Do you have a link to anything that shows this Luxus, I'd like to have a read through it.



Ghislain

If you search for "speed of light not constant" you will pull up numerous Scientists whos work doubts that C is a universal constant.

I myself figured this out when I was a teenager long before these guys...blows his own trumpet ;)

It will be discovered that the speed of light varies over the length of the radius of a spiral galaxy and it will be discovered the reason for this variation is due to the variance in density of vacuum energy through the radius of the galaxy. In the future it will be common knowledge that time flows at a varying rate as you navigate the radius of a spiral galaxy and the distance from the point of expansion of the Universe.

In addition it will be discovered that elements of the periodic table have different properties in different parts of the galaxy...for example elements that are unstable and radioactive in our location will not be in others. Elements that are impossible here are possible there and visa versa.

Awani
03-15-2018, 12:17 AM
constant

No such thing... that in itself is a constant.

:p

black
03-15-2018, 12:31 AM
The difference is that I know the empirical fact that he totally ignored, so I can afford to say Mr. T's famous expression.

But you don't know all the facts .... YET ?

Perhaps a little meditation and some devout prayer ?

And I must say Mr. JDP that you are very tenacious which is
a good attribute for any aspiring Alchemist !!!

JDP
03-15-2018, 12:56 AM
I would have to take your word for that JDP.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Hawking knew some empirical facts that you are not even aware you don't know.

I don't doubt that he did, and in such cases he is the one who can apply Mr. T's catch-phrase to me (or all those who ignore them.) But when it comes to the topic of transmutation, I know for a fact that Hawking ignored the empirical reality of "chymical" transmutations, so the roles are reversed: it's now I who "pities" him.


Protons are held together by the strong force. Relative to a gravitational force of 1 the strong force would be 1x10^38... quite an unimaginable force,

That's just a bunch of theories and assumptions.


and you believe that sort of force can be overcome in a beaker with a few chemicals?

I do not "believe it" because I do not believe in such theories/speculations to begin with, but I KNOW that transmutation through "chymical" methods is a FACT. No one has to convince me to "believe" this, I KNOW it. No "faith" required here. Otherwise I would have to believe that gold & silver apparently spring out of "nowhere" since the substances involved in such processes do NOT contain gold or silver! So you tell me which choice is more sane & rational.


Please enlighten us with the empirical fact that Stephen ignored.

Ghislain

That through "chymical" methods you can get gold & silver from substances in which previously there were none. I am 100% sure Hawking did NOT know this, he fully accepted the old & tired THEORETICAL ASSUMPTIONS of physics when it comes to this.

JDP
03-15-2018, 01:06 AM
But you don't know all the facts .... YET ?

Perhaps a little meditation and some devout prayer ?

And I must say Mr. JDP that you are very tenacious which is
a good attribute for any aspiring Alchemist !!!

No, not all of them, but I do know some facts which you would think other people (like Hawking) would know as well, or in fact should know even better, yet curiously enough they do not.

elixirmixer
03-15-2018, 03:52 AM
If you search for "speed of light not constant" you will pull up numerous Scientists whos work doubts that C is a universal constant.

I myself figured this out when I was a teenager long before these guys...blows his own trumpet ;)

It will be discovered that the speed of light varies over the length of the radius of a spiral galaxy and it will be discovered the reason for this variation is due to the variance in density of vacuum energy through the radius of the galaxy. In the future it will be common knowledge that time flows at a varying rate as you navigate the radius of a spiral galaxy and the distance from the point of expansion of the Universe.

In addition it will be discovered that elements of the periodic table have different properties in different parts of the galaxy...for example elements that are unstable and radioactive in our location will not be in others. Elements that are impossible here are possible there and visa versa.

You could be on to something here... it may help to consider that "Light" does not exist in the way we are taught. For one, there are no "photons" thats more "Bumping Particle Cultism" and, since there is no such THING as "light" then there is no "speed of said made up particle".

What we mean by speed of light is in fact a rate of induction. Which, most certainly, would change in different parts of the universe because gravity and magnetism is different in different places and so therefore the rate of induction is also.

I'll get back with my definition of "light", but speed of light is running in a circuit within the ether, therefore, a rate of induction, not a speed, since nothing is really "moving".

Andro
03-15-2018, 07:40 AM
When discussions reach such points, I usually recommend reading Tom Campbell's 'My Big TOE" (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3897-Tom-s-Big-TOE). It addresses many of those issues.

Schmuldvich
04-05-2018, 06:04 PM
https://i.imgur.com/WKxCq6d.jpg

Wolfeyes
04-05-2018, 07:14 PM
Simply beautifully put. Or beautifully extracted :-)
The old texts reveal so much.
And when one understands what he is looking at it is standing right in front of him.

black
04-06-2018, 01:16 AM
https://i.imgur.com/WKxCq6d.jpg

Hi Mr. Schmuldvich

This is a well written piece !

Would you be so kind as to tell me where it is from ?

Schmuldvich
04-06-2018, 01:41 AM
Hi Mr. Schmuldvich

This is a well written piece !

Would you be so kind as to tell me where it is from ?

"Sanguis Naturae".

Book III in particular is fantastic.

black
04-06-2018, 02:33 AM
"Sanguis Naturae".

Book III in particular is fantastic.

Thanks for that.

I thought it was from "Sanguis Naturae", but my copy from
Rex Research doesn't have the numbered paragraphs.

Schmuldvich
04-06-2018, 03:09 AM
The copy from Rex is missing some end items, including the summary at the end and two other small treatises.

Rueb
04-22-2018, 11:09 AM
I believe that Albert Einstein was a fony. Despite the fact that he worked at a patenting office and overlooked literally hundreds of inventions; he never invented anything himself.

The Whole E=MC squared BS is already outdated in physics and has been replaced by that plumber guy who got in a massive battle with steven hawkins.

Nikola Tesla described Albert Einstein as an "Intellectual Theif" and attributed his works to that of another man who i cannot recall his name.

Also; electrons do not exist. There is no empirical evidence because hey; no ones ever seen an electron. Rather it is compression verses rarefaction where transverse electro-magnetic fields intersect in the longitudinal disection of "the ether" or perhaps better put "the zones of the lose of inertia"

There is a terrible deception going on now called "quantum physics" which once again Albert Einstein self admittingly totally failed to understand. This "Cult of Bumping Particles" is reeeeally holding back new developments in technology, (thats the idea right)

There is only one particle, a proton, which does lose and gain charge, fluctuating as protons and neutrons. They only exist because of the properties of magnetism, which open up the ether into both a precessional toroid and a reciprocating hyperboloid. This creates mass, which creates gravity. And gives the appearence of "solidity" in our 3D realm.

There are NOT whole array of strange particles such as is being taught nowdays. Its all BS. I might like to also add that all of our greatest electrical theorists (Tesla, Steinmetz, Heaviside) all denied the existance of an electron, Tesla denouncing it as "an absurd notion".

Dont believe everything they throatfuck you with :cool:


Sounds very flat earth like, electric/magnetic "universe".