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Andro
12-27-2017, 03:30 PM
Axismundi has recently "accused" me of 'Cultural Marxism" and of "Political Correctness" when I challenged the ethical aspect of enslaving an entity, any entity, human and non-human alike.

What do you think?

Is it ethically OK to 'enslave' another Being/Entity based on the reasoning that "it's not human"?


This is the standard cultural Marxist, critical Theory strategy and frankly I am done here or as you put it I cannot take the heat so I am leaving the kitchen. I have far better things to do with my time than bandy words with someone who infers such wickedness. All of like mind can enjoy this echo chamber together. [...] I am finished with all this politically correct Alchemy.


[...] Having evoked to visible and/or physical manifestation all these and ‘enslaved’ goetic demons to serve my purposes, (in fact I think I have a couple left that still have tasks they would need to fulfill to be released from obligation to me the seals for this are in a steel box somewhere I think); I find this ‘human rights’ for elementals and Demons faintly amusing. [...] We humans are different to animals and diverse spirits, unlike them we are made in Gods image and can conjure and command (enslave) some types of non-corporeal entities.

Dragon's Tail
12-27-2017, 05:36 PM
I personally think that as phrased, this is a BIG topic, and people are going to disagree.
Is it okay to "enslave" chickens, murder them, and eat them?
What about harvesting of living plants?
What about mining and manipulation of raw earth and minerals?
How about forcing the abortion of fruits and seeds to subsist on?
Do children manipulate their parents to get what they want on occasion? Is this a form of slavery.

Since we are being specific to non-corpeal entities that I don't think anyone TRULY knows the underlying nature of, is it "right" for us to discuss the topic at all? I won't pass judgment, nor will I endeavor to "trap" some astral entities of my own. If you are inquiring for discussion, then perhaps Axis' response was over-reactive.

Personally, I don't have an opinion on the matter, and I suspect there are people in this forum that would consider the whole thing a mute point, and question the very existence of these "enslaved" souls. Even specifically discussing The Key of Solomon idea and narrowing it down to that, I think there are different degrees of non-corpeal beings, and while some would be comparable or beyond what we consider "human" existence, some might just be the hovering "nature" around the astral version of a rock. I'm not sure how a corpeal being would be able to tell the difference.

Kiorionis
12-27-2017, 05:59 PM
The magicians maturity plays a big role in this, I think. I’d rather be a friend than a subjugator, for example.

On a side note, ethics is a human construct. Some species of entities operate on a completely different structure. It’s ethical for them to do certain things we humans find unethical.

Andro
12-27-2017, 07:13 PM
The magicians maturity plays a big role in this, I think.

I think so too, regardless of the topic :)


I’d rather be a friend than a subjugator, for example.

Indeed. I have quite a few mutually beneficial alliances with non-physical beings, but no "enslavements". I'm libertarian that way :)


It’s ethical for them to do certain things we humans find unethical.

Maybe "ethical" isn't the ideal choice of a word. There are certain Universal Laws (not many), that can not be circumvented. One of them is Balance. Excessive/unbalanced potential WILL be resolved/re-balanced/re-equilibrated, one way or another. And "enslaving" an entity (any entity) does generate such excessive potential. That's my view on this.

Warmheart
12-27-2017, 09:42 PM
All throughout the time there were cases when certain people made a forceful agreements (sometimes called as binding/enslavement) with some other beings. Usually it made those people gain power in this life, but little did they know about the required payment for that power.

From the point of view of Reality, there is no "good" or "bad" - those are mostly human's concepts. At this time Reality needs to have deep Lower Worlds and someone need to fill them. This Earth seems to be one of main sources of new souls in this Era to fill Lower Worlds: enslavement, lie, deceit, materialism, etc. they all lead souls down there. This is kind of purgation before the coming of new Golden Age, when Earth will be full of new wave of Gods, and all the deceivers of Black Age will be spending their time to recover from their fall in Lower Worlds.

So while enslavement isn't good on its own, it is good in terms of Earth's purgation in Cosmic sense. Slavemasters will need to get their turn to be enslaved. However, it is sad to see the whole Earth going to Hell, but such is the nature of Black Age.

Higher Beings are also subject to such fall, hence the legends about Fallen Angels.

This is my view on it, I don't necessarily ask to agree/disagree with me.

What concerns my totally personal position, I am like Daenerys from "Game of Thrones", I hate everything that has to do with slavery, and it is very sad that this Earth is so full of it.

Avatar
12-27-2017, 10:03 PM
Right and wrong are concepts.
As is the number zero.
As is time.
As is the word love.
As is motivation and will power ( not to be confused with conditioning).

Is it right to enslave someone.
Simple answer is, do you have a problem with it?
There's the answer. Haha.
The Real question is, how do you enslave forces?
What are the benefits and repercussions?
Cause and effect.
What are the effects?

Most don't mind being enslaved.
This is why animals live in packs and herds.
The majority seek an alpha.
Now! On to spirits.
Summoning a force strong enough that it needs to be enslaved in order to command it is in itself a feat.
Spirits are done in two ways.
A. You make the spirit. It takes time. The Buddhist call this a tulpa. There are many ways to strengthen such a spirit. This is the slow method, although if your practice is intense then it is fed with this intensity.
B. The fast an dangerous method. You find a force or source of intensity and focus the hell out of it.
All Tulpas are made the same, the difference really is how you go about intensity. It is very much the method of fracturing your psyche. Legit split personalities is very rare. This condition is remedied by making the patient choose in personality, all others are smothered into non existence.
I have personally only known of one alleged person with split personalities. An artist. At one point he decided to explain why he had been absent with his art tutorials. It was to deal with this issue. I found him to be sincere. One thing he did say though, the couple other personalities he had, they had the ability to do things for him. Things he could no longer do as he was 'healed' and now a single personality.
Things like heating his body in frigid tempatures, or protecting him during dangerous times.

Now. His personalities were personally created by himself out of necessity. His mind fractured. The other personalities had abilities an could manipulate the body in ways he could not. He would black out at times as the more powerful ones took over.
This is extremly similar to the practice of avishkara.
The mahavidya. You can make a tulpa without fracturing the psyche. Fracturing happens when the personality becomes as powerful as your dominant personality.
This is actually why I brought up the hypnosis thread. Which I will comment in later.

The correct way to fracture the psyche is to create powerful personalities capable of doing more than you can do now.
Avishkara is a word, it means to become.
See the tree, feel the tree, be the tree. When you are the tree, you are not you.
Yet beware what personalities you create. It is manipulation of self identity.
Enslavement is a synonym for control.
Some personalities are beneficial in certain circumstances. You do not want them becoming dominant at the wrong times. Thus control.
This is essentially tribal magic at its roots.
There are 6 relationships I can think of.

Brother/sister. mother/father. friend.lover.subordinate.master.

Mother is seen as the safest of all these relationships.
Hence, the mahavidya.

Anyway, this is only one aspect of spirits.
Spirits are technically forces.
Let's say you have 10 people, a group. Group mentality can be considered a spirit.
What's the cliche? It only takes 3 to have group mentality.
Let's say you decide to fracture your psyche. This is amazing.
Yet, create an alpha. Create a supreme personality.
That personality is your root.
In split personalities, as rare as they are there is always a strongest root personality, this personality is not yours, yet one you created that is stronger than you.
An yes, they develope an become seemingly independent.

Hm to end. The most famous method ( I do not know if it works). It is to take a freshly dead human body an manipulate the residual spirit leaving. Not the soul, just the raw residual spirit. You take it while it's leaving, an channel it.
Since this cannot be done in most places, I feel freshly dead animals could be used equally. The bigger the animal the better. Or hell many small animals may be used.

Another end note. 16 years ago when I officially started my path from the bottom of the totem pole. My first introduction to magic that was not through personal experience was a website that spoke of direct magic via pure focus. (Willpower). Willpower in this case being a synonym for intensity. There are many things that cannot be done unless you yourself are sublime in some way.
Take Naropas teachings. He plainly teaches how to enter another body. Yet this cannot be done unless all nerves have no subtle tension left. You must also know the path of rejuvenating the body. An in having an abundance of life force in yourself you must be able to make a clearly fresh dead body breath again by imparting to it your own life.
Hypothetically possible. Yet jeeze the amount of virility you would need to contain, an hell I would presume that dead body would need to be super fresh. Under 6 minutes before the brain melts. I know rejuvination exists.
I understand manipulation of self identity and Tulpas.
This coming from someone who coalesced his entire psyche into one entity purposly.
Many things exist.
Although! Again. Spirits.
They are as complicated as Tulpas.
An as simple as cigarette addiction.
For indeed nicotine is a spirit (;
In fact, all addictive substances are spirits.
Yet they are nothing but dopamine stimulants.
Which technically, you can stimulate yourself if you have enough control. Yet spirits of many sorts often have more power than we.
Hence Samadhi. The practice of mastery of mind.
Anyway! I am just bored. It is my birthday. Flowing with the usually opinions. Messing around with a bit of
Enfleurage type experiments.
To finally end.
You are a predator or prey.
Decide RIGHT NOW.
There is no shame in being either.
Sith or Jedi. = p
I am of course a sith.
The devil.
Yet i never lie and I am no violent nor will I force anyone to do anything.
Yet my persuasive power may be seen as a type of control.
Far as i see it. You cannot be a philosopher's stone without embracing darkness.
Oh snap! (=
Join the dark side. We have cookies bro. I am a magnificent cook.

Kibric
12-28-2017, 12:51 AM
He plainly teaches how to enter another body. Yet this cannot be done unless all nerves have no subtle tension left. You must also know the path of rejuvenating the body. An in having an abundance of life force in yourself you must be able to make a clearly fresh dead body breath again by imparting to it your own life.
Hypothetically possible. Yet jeeze the amount of virility you would need to contain, an hell I would presume that dead body would need to be super fresh. Under 6 minutes before the brain melts. I know rejuvination exists.
Prakasysm allows one to pick up multiple bodies , dead and alive
Bhogar did this with Lao Tzu


Anyway! I am just bored. It is my birthday. Flowing with the usually opinions.
Happy Birthday :D

Avatar
12-28-2017, 01:07 AM
Thank you Kibric.

An as stated. I feel it takes an immense amount of already present vitality to do any such thing.
There is also mention of the ability to purge a soul from its body so that you can enter it. This method is not mentioned though, only the possibility is mentioned.

Kibric
12-28-2017, 01:37 AM
There is also mention of the ability to purge a soul from its body so that you can enter it. This method is not mentioned though, only the possibility is mentioned
highly unethical and unnecessary
the same result can be achieved a few different ways with less expenditure of Vital spirit
i hope you stay away from such practises :(

elixirmixer
12-28-2017, 09:19 AM
I believe that at almost every moment, forces Influence the human soul, unless of course one has done the necessary training to be immune.

If you summon a thought form, it is a creation from you. It wouldn't exist without the energy donation from the magician. This can be described as an elemental.

Contradictally, one could use trance/clairvoyance/audience/sentience to communicate with the 'consciousness' of pretty much any living thing, which could also be described as an elemental, when then again, a higher elementary force, such as the spirit of a whirlpool, would definitely be considered an elementary... As an example...

I believe the destiction lies in whether or not the entity is created by the magician, or 'captured' 'evoked' 'controlled'.

They are different. Ceremonial magic does have many trapfalls. It is important to make an educated distinction if you are to delve into such things.

Seth-Ra
12-29-2017, 12:23 AM
A sentient, non-corporeal entity (or really any entity for that matter), should not be enslaved. A true Elemental is such an entity. A created thought-form, like a spiritual robot built by the magician, is nothing more than a small scale egregore, with a bit more substance than a simple spell. It's a thing made by the magi, and "programmed" by it. It can't be a slave because it's made with a purpose. A sentient spirit, such as Elementals, Archons, etc etc are not creations of the magician. They exist outside of him/herself, and are summoned.
Summoning is akin to calling someone up, they can choose to answer or not. But to call someone up and then try to slap cuffs on, is pretty dickish and usually met with repercussions when those cuffs are removed. (Unless said entity is into that sort of thing. Always know what you're dealing with...)

It is foolish to enslave a thing that doesn't want it. There will be consequences.
Beware a patient being... ;)

pierre
12-29-2017, 06:59 PM
A great difference would do for me, if these entities have own conscience, or simply they are chaotic and erratic forces of the nature.
In the first case, I would choose for a mutual agreement between both parts.
(And not only because) I think that this is a system that maximizes the possibilities to his major benefit. That´s how I feel about it.

Awani
12-29-2017, 07:09 PM
I look at it like this, since nothing is black and white.

Some people say abortion is murder. And some people say women have the right to make choices over their own bodies.

My view: women have the right to choose, but abortion is murder

You can apply the above line of thinking to the topic of this thread.

:p

elixirmixer
12-29-2017, 10:27 PM
I do think there is a purpose behind the fact that we have the ability to command these beings.

After all, these beings are often trying to enter our sphere of influence and usurp control over us as well let's not forget.

Without having actually performed a summoning I won't be able to really know for sure, however, if I command the ocean to give back a drowing child, God's not going to punish me.

Luxus
12-30-2017, 12:12 AM
In Indonesia it is common practice to make a dagger (keris) and trap a spirit in the blade. The dagger is then hung on the wall and charged with protecting the owner and house much like a guard dog.

Kibric
12-30-2017, 01:17 AM
Shun Gong god cultivation, i saw it a while ago and thought it relevant to the topic
skip to 3 mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7p_NVpxZ18

this is very similar to
Arnold Gerrit Henskes " Mirin Dajo "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFoctXxfs_A
from the wiki

In 1947, he moved to Switzerland and initially was only granted a licence to perform without the ability to speak to the public. In his performances Dajo used several assistants but, after many disappointments, he paired up with Jan Dirk de Groot who was his Dutch neighbor. According to De Groot, Dajo had several guardian angels, was telepathic, and could heal people.[1] Time magazine reported on an appearance at the Corso Theatre in Zürich. The article alleged "that Dajo had 'proved' to Zurich doctors that his act was not based on fakery."[3]

He was allegedly instructed by voices to eat a steel needle which was to be surgically removed. He did so on May 11, 1948. It was surgically removed on May 13, 1948. During recovery in the hospital he requested a lot of water for recovery which was only granted if he took full responsibility. To demonstrate his health he walked through Zurich directly after being released. Ten days later, when De Groot picked up his wife from the airport, Dajo lay down on a bed and went into a trance-like state. On arrival De Groot's wife was not comfortable with someone lying down as if dead, and asked De Groot to check his health. On the third day De Groot's wife asked him to check again. This time his neck felt cold.[4] The medical examiner announced he had been dead for a day. The autopsy revealed Dajo had died of an aortic rupture, though this was contested by De Groot and the aforementioned surgeon.[

black
12-30-2017, 01:42 AM
Many years ago I talked to dead people and other entities.

I would DEMAND / COMMAND that they communicate and sometimes
I would DEMAND / COMMAND that they show themselves.
On an on it went with my stupid demands.

I was VERY ignorant of spiritual etiquette and so full of myself with EGO
and my new found power.


After several months I started studying and working with a few different
spiritualist groups doing spirit rescue and similar work. A few of these
very caring individuals from these groups helped me see so much more
and showed me that I could evolve to a better person.


About this time guidance and direction began coming to me from
higher level entities (not dead people) giving me some understanding
of spiritual etiquette and protocol.

I learned that it was not always in the best interest for the dead person / entity or for me to be doing so much demanding.

I was advised to use the higher level entities to see if a particular communication
was advisable or not and to use the HLE's as a type of telephone exchange for
spirits / entities communication.

I'm here today only because of the guidance given to me by a HLE / Angelic force
that very clearly saved my life.


As Andro suggests ..... an alliance can be so much more beneficial than a control.

elixirmixer
12-30-2017, 05:10 AM
So do we distinguish between 'summoning' and 'controlling'? Is summoning an entity a form of control?

What does HLE stand for, high level entity?

black
12-30-2017, 06:17 AM
So do we distinguish between 'summoning' and 'controlling'? Is summoning an entity a form of control?

What does HLE stand for, high level entity?


There are spiritual entities that want to assist and offer you
guidance, these are usually referred to as spirit guides.
My belief is that they come in all shapes, sizes and vibratory
levels just like us.

Often I would summon peoples dead relatives so they could
talk to them ....this was not a good idea as the dead persons spirit
could still be in shock from their passing or working through
other scenarios etc, etc. Not good spiritual etiquette.

Imagine that you were working in the lab and centrelink(social security)
kept summoning you to come to their office.
How rude !!! Haven't they got anything else better to do than
hassle me ?

Yes...I call them the spooks...HLE=high level entities=Angelic Force, etc.

This is just my view on how some things work.

I'm always interested in what others think.

Avatar
12-30-2017, 07:52 AM
My only way to summon an entity is to emulate their personality. To personify it within myself.
I have felt the presence of 4 entities through out my life. the first is when I was youngish an was not happy at all.
The 3 that visited me was when I broke my arm. My arm was broken because I was deviating from my path. I told them to go away an they were honestly emotionally hurt because I told them that. It was like telling a girl trying to help you to leave you alone.
The 5th entity was huge. It filled up the space of a living room. It was 20x20 feet easily.
An visited me while I was emulating kalis personality. An then was told no, I was not to leave life in pursuit, that I still had things I needed to do. I saw it. It saw me. I was apprehensive for 5 seconds, then realized it could see through me. then I laughed knowing I could see it seeing through me seeing it an being apprehensive was naïve. I laughed. it observed me, an then left.
A spirit made of your own doing, or summoned it does not matter. Either can become independent and sentient. only a fool thinks otherwise. Not all spirits once had a body.
spirits are made in multiple ways.
I do not know if the large imposing spirit that visited me was made by me inadvertently, or if I had attracted a large spirit. Yet it was the largest I have ever felt. It was as big as an SUV.
Yet had no ill will I could feel. Mostly it seems spirits do not fuck with me at all. In fact I would say they avoid me completely.
As for my mother, I talk to her rarely about such things. She wishes an desiers only a normal life. She has felt an had spirits mess with her since she was little. She says they do not fuck with her if she closes her self off. She generally closes herself off cause it scares her an she doesn't know what spirits to trust. that is the gist I understand. As of now I believe she is completely closed off. My mother used to be extremely intelligent. She slowly became more human and mundane over the years.
I believe this is due to her closer herself off more and more to such experiances. It genuinely does scare her, she has no idea how to handle such things an never learned.
The last time she had real contact was 6 years ago.
An I believe she actively closed herself off since then. She said if she closes herself off, no spirits bother her. It is interesting. Because if she was crazy, well you cannot actually close yourself off from that. I find it intriguing that she was able to close herself off. Some spirits are not nice. But many, if you ask them to leave you alone, they will do so. many spirits seem like people, they do not want to be were they are not wanted. although it is said, if you ever make a deal with a spirit, they will never leave you.
I have never made such a deal. Nor do I think my mother has.
Yet if a cosmic spirit visits you, the ultimate wish is to wish that such spirit never leaves you and is always with you. For that is a pact that traverses even death.

Luxus
12-30-2017, 12:57 PM
I have to say I am OK with the idea of trapping a demonic entity. Many saints and sages of the past have done so. In Tibet they would nail the demonic spirit to a place so it could not leave. The use of spirit bottles, devil traps etc, King Solomon was said to have trapped no less then 72 demonic entity's in a brass container. Strictly speaking these creatures should not me meddling with Humans in our realm anyway and should stick to their own realm.

I recall a few years ago someone found a spirit bottle buried in the stone wall of a house in England which was discovered during renovation. They sold this spirit who had been trapped in that bottle for probably hundreds of years on Ebay. It was such an unusual sale it made the news and someone purchased it for a high price.

Andro
12-30-2017, 01:28 PM
I have to say I am OK with the idea of trapping a demonic entity. Many saints and sages of the past have done so. In Tibet they would nail the demonic spirit to a place so it could not leave. The use of spirit bottles, devil traps etc, King Solomon was said to have trapped no less then 72 demonic entity's in a brass container. Strictly speaking these creatures should not me meddling with Humans in our realm anyway and should stick to their own realm.

Trapping an entity (so it can do no harm) is VERY different from enslaving an entity (to do our bidding). The latter (deliberate enslavement for personal gain) is the topic of this thread and poll.

The question of the poll is:

Is it ethically OK to 'enslave' incorporeal non-human entities to do our bidding?

(Let me know if you want to change your vote :))

Luxus
12-30-2017, 02:52 PM
Trapping an entity (so it can do no harm) is VERY different from enslaving an entity (to do our bidding). The latter (deliberate enslavement for personal gain) is the topic of this thread and poll.

The question of the poll is:

Is it ethically OK to 'enslave' incorporeal non-human entities to do our bidding?

(Let me know if you want to change your vote :))


If you enslave a demonic entity and set it to accomplishing good deeds against its will then yes its OK in my opinion.

Solomon enslaved demonic entity's and forced them to build the temple to God, I doubt it happened but you get the idea.

elixirmixer
12-30-2017, 11:08 PM
Does a demon 'suffer' when performing our will?

Kiorionis
12-30-2017, 11:26 PM
Solomon enslaved demonic entity's and forced them to build the temple to God, I doubt it happened but you get the idea.

True, but in the end he turned away from god (YHVH) and during his son Rehoboam’s reign, Solomon’s kingdom fell apart. It’s not uncommon for the master to find himself a slave to his servants.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%2011

Luxus
12-31-2017, 03:55 AM
Does a demon 'suffer' when performing our will?

A truly demonic creature only finds joy in doing bad deeds and doing good deeds brings it discomfit. Would I care that me forcing it to do good deeds causes it pain....absolutely not.

Warmheart
12-31-2017, 06:35 AM
Many so-called Demons are Fallen Higher Beings. They fell from Their Glory for the same reason - they wanted to put under their control (read - "enslave") everything they could. When practitioner gets caught in this fall, the access to better Worlds becomes locked to him for very long time. Practitioner must be truly powerful (he must be at very least physically immortal - this is absolute minimum) to not get caught in this fall while he interacts wit those Beings.

If to put romanticism aside, messing with "Demons" is a necessary path for filling the Lower Worlds (by the means of transmigration of souls). But I don't think that any normal creature would want to go below our already Hell-like World.

And if to put delusions aside, "Demons" won't help with any progress, special capabilities, etc., they can only deceive, because they were ridden of their powers. Still, they are quite powerful in their respective Worlds.

Dealing with "Demons" to solve some problems is like cutting off your legs in order to learn how to fly. Not only you won't achieve anything good, you will lose whatever good you already had.

Thankfully, as I said in some other thread, most of the books in the market about Demons is a total garbage (though sometimes you can see some dangerous practice here and there), fantasy of role-players and deluded followers of Jung's teachings. No matter how much will you try to "enslave" them according to public info, you will only waste time. Anyway, you must be totally suicidal to try and interact with those Beings as Their Master without having real power to back up your position, so wasting time is better than messing with Demons for REAL.

Also keep in mind, that modern western "demonology" appeared only recently, maximum 1000 years ago (and biggest part of all western occultism was fantasized by perversive mind of Eliphas Levi). A lot of Western info on demons is a made-up fantasies of clergy to scare people away from Magic, because clergy wanted to claim monopoly over it. Clergy said: Magical Powers come from some Evil Devil, and some people believed that. Fantasy continued to grow from there.

You don't have to agree with my post, but it would be good if people tried to approach modern occult books with critical mind, and think if it is possible for Fallen Beings to rise them up to anything good...

elixirmixer
01-08-2018, 03:26 AM
In reference to my experience in the "Intensive Repeating Dream Phenomenon (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5496-Intensive-repeating-dream-phenomenon)" thread, I'd have to say this.

Better to be the Commander, than the one being Commanded. IMO.

Some dark energies are really hurting good, reason ably innocent folk. If we can do something to work with these dark energies, to prevent them from hurting others, then I think it should be done.

This may take on different forms. I tend to blow them up by performing exorcism. Awani mentioned 'sucking' out the bad energy in order to 'purify' the entity, and I'm sure there are others here, with other tequniques.

Perhaps its worth the time for us to discuss our "different methods" and find a way to come to a mature consensus on how we should most "righteously" deal with these invaders, as im certainly not convinced that blowing them up in the name of Jesus is necessarily the best way lol


------------------------------------

Andro
01-08-2018, 08:54 AM
'sucking' out the bad energy

I may be stating the obvious, but just in case...

Never "suck" such things into yourself. Use an external "creation" to "suck"/extract the undesired energy/entity, such as a "vacuum cleaner" energy construct.

Next thing, make sure that what has been "sucked out" will not come back - you can do this by creating a one-way "black hole" trashcan and empty the extracted content in there.

Ghislain
01-08-2018, 11:54 AM
Are we not our own prison guards, captor and captive at the same time?

Ghislain

JDP
01-08-2018, 12:45 PM
Are we not our own prison guards, captor and captive at the same time?

Ghislain


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zcg3Ok5Le5s

elixirmixer
01-08-2018, 08:45 PM
I may be stating the obvious, but just in case...

Never "suck" such things into yourself.

Im definitely feeling you on this one. Would you 'eparticipatß No.

Could you, as someone else suggested, send the bed energy into the Earth to recycle?

Does soul retrieval involve this kind of work?

I'm totally getting my shit together so that I have the mind power to lucidly find a mirror and remove crap out of my astral self. In a bit scared what I might see in the mirror, as I have never seen myself in the dream world, but I'm sure it will reflect a lot of neglected aspects of my psychology, and most likely appear quite hidious since, even though you can probably tell that I have all the right intentions, that doesn't do much in the way of spiritual purity. I haven't unlocked Kundalini, and I'm still a bit of a sexual deviate within the bounds of my own marriage. (I do try really hard not to allow other women into my thoughts during masterbation, nevertheless, I do slip up for brief moments here and there, but only for a few seconds these days as I'm pretty onto it.)

After my finances have recovered from my 3D printer purchase and my wife's upcoming birthday I'm going to give the Hermetic Vision soul retrieval service offered by Andro, as I'm sure it will make future work easier, at least get the ball rolling.

Can soul retrieval be done multiple times with continued benefits?

I'm simply discussing this as I do think its quite relevant to the astral realm, the inner being, and how we interact with our own lucidity and therefore everything else, including these entities.

Basically I'm thinking that a good session coupled with purification could give more 'control' in the dream world. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Its been a VERY long time since I studied Shamanism.

@Ghislain- Indeed, IMO, nothing gets in and captures us unless we allow it too. I wouldn't say we are the captors, but we play our role.

Also in regards to possession, are we not constantly being influenced to some degree by other entities (in our fallen state)?

I believe when I "want a cigarette" and then "have a cigarette" it is a form of possession, not the full blown type your talking about, but more of an external possession, through influence rather than through 'hosting(?)'.

I'll just take a sec to thank all of you for always participating in my random conversations. Having a community with this type of focus has done wonders for me, and verified that through all those years of peoples persecution, when I was 'on my own', that I was indeed making the right choice to educate myself in all things Spiritual. Love ya's :o

Andro
01-08-2018, 10:07 PM
Could you, as someone else suggested, send the bed energy into the Earth to recycle?

Recycle - yes. Not into the earth.


Does soul retrieval involve this kind of work?

It often does, but not always. No two Journeys are the same.


Can soul retrieval be done multiple times with continued benefits?

4 shamanic journeys, spaced 3 months apart, over the course of one year, will generally "set" one for years to come. The effects are cumulative.


I'm going to give the Hermetic Vision soul retrieval service offered by Andro

It doesn't have to be me. I would suggest to find a local shaman (in your area/country), with whom you sense a connection. Just do your due diligence - there are many self-proclaimed "shamans" out there who just read a book and/or went to a weekend course, and now they'll go and retrieve your colorful new-agey variety of feathers, totems and power animals, etc... Perhaps you should seek out the aboriginal shamans/clevermen?

Doing this kind of work requires a lot of training (more than a decade in my case, before I was given the "green light" to work with others), impeccable ethics, good diplomacy skills, delicacy, finesse, etc...

Aham
01-09-2018, 12:56 AM
It doesn't have to be me.

Since I'm not on Facebook or any of the other social media sites to 'Like' what Andro does, let me just say for the record that Andro does one heck of a job! Doesn't matter if he's there in person or not.

Kiorionis
01-09-2018, 01:12 AM
Hi all. Let’s remember to stay on topic.

Thanks again, cheers.

Andro
01-09-2018, 05:02 AM
Hi all. Let’s remember to stay on topic.

Indeed.

Thanks guys, but this is not about me. Whatever shamanic related stuff I have to share, I will gladly do so where appropriate for the topic.

PS: I just noticed that I'm the OP :)

Ironically, it's me who started this thread, after being accused of "Cultural Marxism" for being against enslaving anyone (= forcing them without their consent) to "do our bidding".

I maintain this position. Banning/disposing of an entity for making a mess is not the same as capturing/enslaving it and forcing it to "serve" us.

But there is a larger issue here. Some may think that this whole place/world is a "slave colony" of sorts, and we are the ones being enslaved. Perhaps, but not if we are the ones who made the choice to "come" here. The same thing can be said on smaller scales... We are in most cases being "enslaved" with our consent. I have no ethical problem with that. Where's there's consent, I have no business to stick my nose and opinionate :)

elixirmixer
01-09-2018, 12:02 PM
Actually I was subtlety insiuating that through my epic AF epilogue, I would be the run thr next chapter of public hermetic transformation (strting from basically ground zero) making the thread more about me, then anyone else :p:p:p

Even though EM is just a character, I'll sparingly remind ;):cool:;):cool:

@Andro, so what your saying is, don't control the demons, just squirt them into the Black Sun?

That's right, it doesn't have to be you, however. I've waited for a long time to find something I'm comfortable with, and I find that in this situation, and intend to 'report' about soul retrieval from experience, even if others find there comfort zone somewhere else.

Can I just write shit down that I want changed and you just go sort it out? Or is it more like, you go all epic Astro-Shaman, head into the astral planes like a total badass, chewing up demons as you search for the central core of your client, find the Netherlands, assess the damage and make a judgment call while on the job, based on how heavy its going down???

;):o

EM is a character. The Love is Real. :o:o

What do you think about the mirror exorcism??

PS: some may find this off-topic, however, since a persons 'ability' to control elementals/daemons is directly relevant, and that my posts speak about potential ways to ramp up that ability, this is why I choose to place these posts here. Thankyou.

Andro
01-09-2018, 03:35 PM
Can I just write shit down that I want changed and you just go sort it out? Or is it more like, you go all epic Astro-Shaman, head into the astral planes like a total badass, chewing up demons as you search for the central core of your client, find the Netherlands, assess the damage and make a judgment call while on the job, based on how heavy its going down???

The latter, but without all the fanfare.

Now please, let's all stay on topic.

If you have a concept about "enslaving incorporeal non-human entities" - post it here.

If there are other matters concerning shamanism, there is a dedicated sub-forum for that.

elixirmixer
01-09-2018, 10:58 PM
Have we got anybody here that has experienced what they believe to be a full-blown "possession"?

I make this point to view this subject from both the angle of us controlling other entities and also their attempts at controlling us.

Eye for an eye? Lol

Kiorionis
01-10-2018, 12:55 AM
If you've ever participated in a mushroom ceremony, or some other ceremony involving sacred plant medicines, then you are technically under possession of the plant at the time. Marijuana included.

So for me, yes. I've been fully possessed by the benevolent mushroom spirit ;)

However, it was not enslavement on account of my agreeing to ingest the mushroom to begin with, during ceremony (on more than one occasion). And most of the times part of the agreement is that after the chemical effects wear off, the plant spirit "exits the building".