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Andro
01-11-2018, 02:25 AM
Continued from HERE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4845-The-Solar-Path&p=54202#post54202).
__________________


http://www.rhoend.com/2018/01/artilugio-secreto-de-recoleccion-de-sm.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Rhoend+%28Rhoend%29

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZfB4lCfeU-k/WlY6S2drAtI/AAAAAAAADTY/xAMztOC7sN0ux7tUQdosxTM9H55OIexlQCLcBGAs/s640/f661eda6-beba-4588-b282-3c98b70b8bd9.JPG

__________________________________________________ ___________________________

A much older image :

http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Heat-Activation.jpg

Even the screw is the same (rather than a regular rod) :)

Seth-Ra
01-11-2018, 03:21 AM
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZfB4lCfeU-k/WlY6S2drAtI/AAAAAAAADTY/xAMztOC7sN0ux7tUQdosxTM9H55OIexlQCLcBGAs/s640/f661eda6-beba-4588-b282-3c98b70b8bd9.JPG

__________________________________________________ ___________________________

A much older image :

http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Heat-Activation.jpg

Even the screw is the same (rather than a regular rod) :)

Reminds me of a hollow orgone accumulator...

elixirmixer
01-11-2018, 06:57 AM
Has anyone else noticed the synchronicity around the Universal Solvent in 2018?

------------------------------------------

But why iron?

Warmheart
01-11-2018, 08:40 AM
A much older image :

http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Heat-Activation.jpg

Even the screw is the same (rather than a regular rod) :)
This much older image is actually highly interesting. What book is this image from?

Andro
01-11-2018, 08:47 AM
This much older image is actually highly interesting. What book is this image from?

Orthelius' commentary on Sendivogius (http://www.alchemywebsite.com/amcl_orthelius.html) (link to the 12 images)

Here's a nicer-looking image, from McLean's site:

http://www.alchemywebsite.com/images/OR03.jpg

Warmheart
01-11-2018, 08:53 AM
Here's a nicer-looking image, from McLean's site:

Thank you, I am going to google Orthelius. Perhaps I am seeing something there isn't actually in the image, but I will look at the image in its actual context :)

Andro
01-11-2018, 09:07 AM
But why iron?
__________________________


“Sendivogius in his section ” On the Enigma” states that the water is everywhere, and nothing can live without it. It is drawn in wonderful ways, but the real best is the following, which is about how to extract it with the power of our chalybis, which is found in the belly of Aries. Very few know it ( when Sendivogius says ” the central part and occult food of life is in air), while the many are used to see only the rind or shadow of the thing.”

SOURCE (https://www.labyrinthdesigners.org/alchemic-authors-1598-1832/orthelius-commentary-on-sendivogius-chapter-5/)

Andro
01-11-2018, 09:49 AM
Reminds me of a hollow orgone accumulator...

The flask on the left or the "oven" on the right?

Florius Frammel
01-11-2018, 01:34 PM
These pictures might show a possibility to produce a vacuum or at least negative pressure inside the flasks.

Warmheart
01-11-2018, 01:54 PM
These pictures might show a possibility to produce a vacuum or at least negative pressure inside the flasks.
I also had a thought about vacuum on that picture.

Aham
01-11-2018, 06:36 PM
I also had a thought about vacuum on that picture.

I’m curious as to what in the image makes you believe that a vacuum or negative pressure is involved? I didn’t get that at all but maybe my perspective needs an adjustment :)

My questions are:
- why have two representations of the same thing?
- if we assume that the artist for both representations is the same (let’s hope), why create two different types of flasks with different ‘neck’ angles

Illen A. Cluf
01-11-2018, 07:01 PM
Based on the shadows in the sketch, it appears that the iron rod points directly to the sun. Perhaps the illustration shows two different angles in order to point out that the flask must be continually rotated in order to keep pointing to the sun.

It also seems important to only heat the point of the iron rod.

Kiorionis
01-11-2018, 07:03 PM
I’m curious as to what in the image makes you believe that a vacuum or negative pressure is involved?

If you visit the link above, it gives a more detailed description, and mentions heat-sealing the flask in order to make a vacuum.

Also here: http://www.rhoend.com/2018/01/artilugio-secreto-de-recoleccion-de-sm.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+Rhoend+(Rhoend)&m=1

Florius Frammel
01-11-2018, 07:05 PM
By heating the long necked opening of the flask, the air rises up in that area, because warm air is less dense than cold. Nature wants to equal the missing air (negative pressure) at the opening and it could be that the air in the flask is blown outside to the opening. There is also some smoke or fog coming out of the flasks underlyning my hypothesis. If you then close the flask immediately there is less air inside the flask than outside -> negative pressure.
I did not do this experiment myself and don't know if that would really work this way. Just a theory..

Aham
01-11-2018, 07:10 PM
Based on the shadows in the sketch, it appears that the iron rod points directly to the sun. Perhaps the illustration shows two different angles in order to point out that the flask must be continually rotated in order to keep pointing to the sun.

It also seems important to only heat the point of the iron rod.

IAC, sounds reasonable to me. Thank you!

Kiorionis
01-11-2018, 07:15 PM
Two flasks could also be a practical approach. Two devices would mean double the collection rate. Three or four or five would increase collection as well.

That is, if the devices work.

Florius Frammel
01-11-2018, 07:18 PM
http://www.shengong.ch/img/f_schroepfen.jpg
If you ever had the pleasure having this done, one can probably better understand the under pressure theory. It would be similar to this cupping method.

Kiorionis
01-11-2018, 07:19 PM
Based on the shadows in the sketch, it appears that the iron rod points directly to the sun. Perhaps the illustration shows two different angles in order to point out that the flask must be continually rotated in order to keep pointing to the sun.

It also seems important to only heat the point of the iron rod.

I wonder if it’s better to point the iron needle at the sun, or magnetic north?

Florius Frammel
01-11-2018, 07:21 PM
I think the rod is hollow.

Illen A. Cluf
01-11-2018, 07:23 PM
I actually tried this experiment years ago with a flask and a long metal nail. The main difference is that I did not create a vacuum, I wrapped the iron nail with copper wire, and I buried the flask in earth. I also pointed the nail to the North direction rather than the sun.

I kept it buried for a month or two, and all I got was a drop of water. I suspect it was just dew. I threw some metal fragments in it to see if it would do anything to the metal, but the result was - nothing.

Aham
01-11-2018, 07:25 PM
Two flasks could also be a practical approach. Two devices would mean double the collection rate. Three or four or five would increase collection as well.

That is, if the devices work.

Agree, mo iz betta :)

BTW, don’t know about you guys but I didn’t care for the McLean version of the image, even though it’s in color, since it adds/subtracts detail that’s not in the original. Doesn’t look like they used the existing pic to color over it... Maybe there are various ‘original’ versions of the original image floating around. Not sure...

Andro
01-11-2018, 07:48 PM
Maybe there are various ‘original’ versions of the original image floating around. Not sure...

The only "original version" that I know of is in the first post of this thread. It used to be online once (maybe it still is), I think it was a French site, together with the entire commentary AND an extra image (No.13 :)) with the Marmor Spongia (not included in McLean's 12 colored engravings).

Also, whatever you may think of "Rhoend", at least now he is publishing protocols on his site for free, that people can actually test for themselves in their labs. This in itself is commendable, IMO.

Aham
01-11-2018, 08:17 PM
The only "original version" that I know of is in the first post of this thread. It used to be online once (maybe it still is), I think it was a French site, together with the entire commentary AND an extra image (No.13 :)) with the Marmor Spongia (not included in McLean's 12 colored engravings).

Ok... you can’t say there’s a 13th image and not share it :p

I’m at work or I’d look for it myself :rolleyes: but if you happen to be in a generous mood, maybe share the commentary AND the images. Pretty please with ‘name-your-dessert’ on top :D


Also, whatever you may think of "Rhoend", at least now he is publishing protocols on his site for free, that people can actually test for themselves in their labs. This in itself is commendable, IMO.

Fully agree

Andro
01-11-2018, 08:31 PM
Ok... you can’t say there’s a 13th image and not share it :p

I’m at work or I’d look for it myself :rolleyes: but if you happen to be in a generous mood, maybe share the commentary AND the images. Pretty please with ‘name-your-dessert’ on top :D

This is the image of the "Marmor Spongia" that I could find:

http://www.alchemywebsite.com/images/orthelius_1659_06.jpg

You can also search this forum for "Marmor Spongia". It's been mentioned here and there on occasion...

I am not able to locate the commentary that I saw online years ago... Maybe the site is down... No idea...

alfr
01-11-2018, 10:41 PM
MAMOR SPONGIA

in the past thread in this forum with commebtary orthelius

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2451-The-Celestial-Agriculture/page25

......................

*
.

Also, whatever you may think of "Rhoend", at least now he is publishing protocols on his site for free, that people can actually test for themselves in their labs. This in itself is commendable, IMO.
hi andro
yes about this you have reason yes it is also my IMO

garvolt2002
01-11-2018, 11:48 PM
The Way to Attract Water.

In addition, there are still other ways to capture the essence of water from the air, one of which is given here for public use: you need to get one or more copper instruments in imitation of the example shown here, which is very solidly welded in two or three parts. At the bottom of these, a big sponge is placed, which is crushed from two pounds of marble which has been calcined for five days and five nights in a furnace for glass, and mixed with a pound of crushed red marble the size of a hazelnut so that everything is drawn into a special container through a narrow tube at the bottom. As has been the hottest hypocaustum [?] in which this instrument is placed, the more intense the cold outside the window - through which the upper part of the instrument extends, which narrows gradually, starting from the lower part, up to a port so close to accommodate just the tip of a needle - the more quickly and plentifully the water in this instrument of attraction will be collected, and eventually will flow into the container, through the sponge compressed by the weight of the marble, to the point that there will be a drink sufficient for the needs of a horse and a man. I have seen such globes made of gold and silver and copper and also with brass, which both attracted and quickly secreted the cold water, which was freezing, and with it are guaranteed wonderful effects, which will be useful even without a doubt to the intent of this work. But that will be discussed at the proper time and place

Illen A. Cluf
01-11-2018, 11:54 PM
I am not able to locate the commentary that I saw online years ago... Maybe the site is down... No idea...
It's in the RAMS collection.

See:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/rams.html

It's a little more than half way down the list: "Recapitulation of New Light on Chemistry - Orthelius (with Salztal) - ( 20 pages)".

JDP
01-12-2018, 01:55 AM
It's in the RAMS collection.

See:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/rams.html

It's a little more than half way down the list: "Recapitulation of New Light on Chemistry - Orthelius (with Salztal) - ( 20 pages)".

Yes, however, the whole commentary was not translated. The complete Latin text was printed in the Theatrum Chemicum collection, volume 6, pages 397-458:

http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/Content/11637/tc-vol6.html

Regarding the two apparatuses that have become the subject of speculative interpretations by some people apparently following the wild flights of fancy by this "Rhoend" character, they are simply relatively crudely drawn distillation apparatuses (more specifically alembics), receivers (the balloon shaped flasks outside the furnaces) & furnaces, as can be plainly seen by the accompanying text of Chapter III:

http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/Content/16678/tom6-0428.jpg

Where Orthelius explains that what is going on here is "a double rectification of the distilled liquor" to separate "the vital spiritual substance", which is in "the middle" between its "two extremes/extremities", i.e. the "phlegmatic water" and the "earthy filth" ("sorditie terrestri"), so accordingly the accompanying drawing shows two distillation furnaces and alembics attached to receivers, but the alembics with their "heads" & side-arms are pretty crudely drawn (probably the engraver who executed the drawing had never actually seen an alembic and worked based on a description of what alembics inside furnaces looked like. He managed to get most of it more or less right, except the actual shape of the distilling head of the alembic, which ended up looking more like an arrow-head.)

Aham
01-12-2018, 03:10 AM
This is the image of the "Marmor Spongia" that I could find:

http://www.alchemywebsite.com/images/orthelius_1659_06.jpg

You can also search this forum for "Marmor Spongia". It's been mentioned here and there on occasion...



Thanks Andro

Aham
01-12-2018, 04:12 AM
Yes, however, the whole commentary was not translated. The complete Latin text was printed in the Theatrum Chemicum collection, volume 6, pages 397-458:

http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/Content/11637/tc-vol6.html

Thanks for the link. Very helpful. If I only knew Greek, I'd be in good shape. :confused:


Regarding the two apparatuses that have become the subject of speculative interpretations by some people apparently following the wild flights of fancy by this "Rhoend" character, they are simply relatively crudely drawn distillation apparatuses (more specifically alembics), receivers (the balloon shaped flasks outside the furnaces) & furnaces, as can be plainly seen by the accompanying text of Chapter III:

http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/Content/16678/tom6-0428.jpg

Where Orthelius explains that what is going on here is "a double rectification of the distilled liquor" to separate "the vital spiritual substance", which is in "the middle" between its "two extremes/extremities", i.e. the "phlegmatic water" and the "earthy filth" ("sorditie terrestri"), so accordingly the accompanying drawing shows two distillation furnaces and alembics attached to receivers, but the alembics with their "heads" & side-arms are pretty crudely drawn (probably the engraver who executed the drawing had never actually seen an alembic and worked based on a description of what alembics inside furnaces looked like. He managed to get most of it more or less right, except the actual shape of the distilling head of the alembic, which ended up looking more like an arrow-head.)

Damn... I was ready to dissolve gold in the liquid I was about to condense in the flask. Even had my dual axis solar tracker fired up :rolleyes:

JDP, thanks again for chiming in.

Andro
01-12-2018, 09:09 AM
It's a little more than half way down the list: "Recapitulation of New Light on Chemistry - Orthelius (with Salztal) - ( 20 pages)".

If this is it, you can all check it out HERE (http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/NEWLIGHT_original.pdf).

Florius Frammel
01-12-2018, 02:35 PM
Thanks Andro!

Illen A. Cluf
01-12-2018, 04:07 PM
If this is it, you can all check it our HERE (http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/NEWLIGHT_original.pdf).

Thanks, Andro - that's the one I meant.

Luxus
01-15-2018, 07:14 PM
I think this is a steam venturi device to create a vacuum in the globe. The furnace has a container filled with water. Steam is generated and the pressurised steam exits the arrow shaped tube (which is symbolic rather then literal). The jet of steam generates a vacuum in the globe via the venturi effect.

Venturi tube No 6&7

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5c/63/3a/5c633a648d3d88594c821ecaa3800b25--venturi-giovanni-battista.jpg

Weidenfeld
01-15-2018, 07:37 PM
I think this is a steam venturi device to create a vacuum in the globe. The furnace has a container filled with water. Steam is generated and the pressurised steam exits the arrow shaped tube (which is symbolic rather then literal). The jet of steam generates a vacuum in the globe via the venturi effect.

Venturi tube No 6&7

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5c/63/3a/5c633a648d3d88594c821ecaa3800b25--venturi-giovanni-battista.jpg
I might suggest this as an early form of a venturi construction or something like that.
(sorry Luxus, I didn‘t recognize ‚Venturi‘ in your recent post )

Aham
01-17-2018, 03:18 AM
I think this is a steam venturi device to create a vacuum in the globe. The furnace has a container filled with water. Steam is generated and the pressurised steam exits the arrow shaped tube (which is symbolic rather then literal). The jet of steam generates a vacuum in the globe via the venturi effect.

Venturi tube No 6&7

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5c/63/3a/5c633a648d3d88594c821ecaa3800b25--venturi-giovanni-battista.jpg

Luxus, I like your take on the arrows and in my mind helps explain the steam coming out of the arrows/Venturi device but the header of Chapter 3 seems to deal with



Where Orthelius explains that what is going on here is "a double rectification of the distilled liquor" to separate "the vital spiritual substance", which is in "the middle" between its "two extremes/extremities", i.e. the "phlegmatic water" and the "earthy filth" ("sorditie terrestri"), so accordingly the accompanying drawing shows two distillation furnaces and alembics attached to receivers

I did a quick/dirty translation of the header in Chapter 3 to verify what JDP said in the quoted text and I agree with his translation.

So now I'm wondering how we reconcile your perspective of the image with JDP's perspective given that we can't be working to create a vacuum in the flask using a Venturi device and carrying out a rectification at the same time.

JDP
01-17-2018, 09:09 AM
Luxus, I like your take on the arrows and in my mind helps explain the steam coming out of the arrows/Venturi device but the header of Chapter 3 seems to deal with



I did a quick/dirty translation of the header in Chapter 3 to verify what JDP said in the quoted text and I agree with his translation.

Was there ever any doubt? LOL! Though I am not an expert in Latin, I know enough of its vocabulary and basic grammar to understand a lot of it, specially authors who wrote in simple and straightforward style, like this Orthelius fellow often does, unlike authors like Maier, who write in a complicated and embellished manner, like friggin' poets (Maier in fact was a Latin Poet Laureate), and can only be fully understood by a professional Latinist.


So now I'm wondering how we reconcile your perspective of the image with JDP's perspective given that we can't be working to create a vacuum in the flask using a Venturi device and carrying out a rectification at the same time.

The answer is easy: it has nothing to do with "Venturi" devices or any of the other fanciful ideas being projected on this image. The vessels shown are just more or less crudely drawn distillation apparatuses inside furnaces.

Kiorionis
01-17-2018, 04:16 PM
Maybe I’m missing something, but how does this look like a distillation apparatus?



https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZfB4lCfeU-k/WlY6S2drAtI/AAAAAAAADTY/xAMztOC7sN0ux7tUQdosxTM9H55OIexlQCLcBGAs/s640/f661eda6-beba-4588-b282-3c98b70b8bd9.JPG

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-07e7-BaXLBw/WlY5Aqf5bQI/AAAAAAAADTM/2aZavCkgxmA3UIYy8cp60phsBv50WMpjQCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_2467.JPG

JDP
01-17-2018, 04:29 PM
Maybe I’m missing something, but how does this look like a distillation apparatus?



https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-07e7-BaXLBw/WlY5Aqf5bQI/AAAAAAAADTM/2aZavCkgxmA3UIYy8cp60phsBv50WMpjQCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_2467.JPG

Not that, the one shown in Orthelius' text, this one:

http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/Content/16678/tom6-0428.jpg

Aham
01-18-2018, 03:20 AM
Was there ever any doubt? LOL!

This Hollywood actor from a long time ago used to say, "Trust but verify" :cool:

Aham
01-18-2018, 03:36 AM
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-07e7-BaXLBw/WlY5Aqf5bQI/AAAAAAAADTM/2aZavCkgxmA3UIYy8cp60phsBv50WMpjQCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_2467.JPG



K, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if you put together the contraption in the image above just to mess with us. :p

If this happens be a pic of something you were working with, what was at the other exposed end of the rod that you removed before taking the pic? It looks like there was another device(?) at the exposed end that was also luted and removed before the pic was take. I'm asking because there seems to be some residue on that side of the rod as well :cool:

If not your pic, never mind. If you don't want to fess up, I understand :D

Kiorionis
01-18-2018, 03:51 AM
Haha, not my picture. I just opened and read the link provided in the first post. The image belongs to Rhoend I believe.

See here: http://www.rhoend.com/2018/01/artilugio-secreto-de-recoleccion-de-sm.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+Rhoend+(Rhoend)&m=1

He also explains how he uses it.

My own design is somewhat different

Aham
01-18-2018, 04:10 AM
Haha, not my picture. I just opened and read the link provided in the first post. The image belongs to Rhoend I believe.

See here: http://www.rhoend.com/2018/01/artilugio-secreto-de-recoleccion-de-sm.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+Rhoend+(Rhoend)&m=1

He also explains how he uses it.

My own design is somewhat different

I guess I did completely forget about the other pics he had on that page. Never mind :)

Schmuldvich
01-18-2018, 04:33 AM
http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Heat-Activation.jpg


For what it's worth, here are some more points/arrows found in Alchemical literature...




https://i.imgur.com/AdmlmpB.png


https://i.imgur.com/QTnW40n.png


https://i.imgur.com/3e017JG.png.


https://i.imgur.com/kZx0CyM.png

Luxus
01-28-2018, 03:00 AM
Luxus, I like your take on the arrows and in my mind helps explain the steam coming out of the arrows/Venturi device but the header of Chapter 3 seems to deal with



I did a quick/dirty translation of the header in Chapter 3 to verify what JDP said in the quoted text and I agree with his translation.

So now I'm wondering how we reconcile your perspective of the image with JDP's perspective given that we can't be working to create a vacuum in the flask using a Venturi device and carrying out a rectification at the same time.

I do not know what experiment is being carried out but you can boil off components wilt a lower boiling point in the evacuated globe with use of a vacuum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAVRLNKA6Fw

Kiorionis
01-28-2018, 08:10 AM
Supposedly there is nothing in the flask, and it’s an operation of condensation.

Luxus
01-28-2018, 01:13 PM
Nothing must be added to the first matter of the alchemists not even dust from an unclean globe and for some alchemists this also includes the crude air.


The matter being thus prepared, its central fire will be awakened, if it is treated properly, according to the process for extracting quicksilver from it ores, by keeping it in a close heat, which is continued without admission of the crude air