PDA

View Full Version : Le Clefs du Cabinet Hérmetique



Weidenfeld
01-28-2018, 12:44 AM
I‘m not quite sure but I have been on search for another source coming up by Fulcanelli (or maybe the one you disguise ?) for many years, it‘s

„La clef du cabinet hermétique“ !

At that time (20 years or more) it was even not mentioned in certain collections or catalogues ... but now we have another situation where huge collections of such mss are available for almost everyone who‘s interested in and there is no space for slynesses anymore ...


------------------------------------------------------------------

Aham
01-28-2018, 02:27 AM
I‘m not quite sure but I have been on search for another source coming up by Fulcanelli (or maybe the one you disguise ?) for many years, it‘s

„La clef du cabinet hermétique“ !

At that time (20 years or more) it was even not mentioned in certain collections or catalogues ... but now we have another situation where huge collections of such mss are available for almost everyone who‘s interested in and there is no space for slynesses anymore ...

Weidenfeld, not sure I fully understood what you're saying so let me rephrase what you said and please let me know if I've got it right.

You're suggesting that there's a book called "La clef du cabinet hermétique" link (http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/69a4c6a0-7b23-0131-67d8-58d385a7b928#/?uuid=698da3a0-7b23-0131-b26f-58d385a7b928) written by Fulcanelli(?) that was not available 20+ years ago but now available. Also, there are "huge collections" of Fulcanelli's(?) work available for everyone interested in his notes/books. If the latter is accurate, would you please point us to the location(s) of these notes/collections.

Thanks in advance

Mods: If this post belongs in a different thread, I'm fine with it.

Weidenfeld
01-28-2018, 09:42 AM
Weidenfeld, not sure I fully understood what you're saying so let me rephrase what you said and please let me know if I've got it right.

Aham, you obviously misunderstood me ... the questioned Ms is three or four times mentioned in Fulcanelli's "Le Mystere des Cathedrales".

For example pag. 31 as a footnote:
3) La Clef du Cabinet hermétique. Mss. du XVIII° siècle.
Anon., s. l. n. d.

or pag. 37:

« L’eau dont nous nous servons, écrit l’auteur anonyme de la Clef du Cabinet Hermétique, est une eau qui renferme toutes les vertus du ciel et dela terre ; c’est pourquoi elle est le Dissolvant général de toute la Nature ;

https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/69a4c6a0-7b23-0131-67d8-58d385a7b928#/?uuid=698da3a0-7b23-0131-b26f-58d385a7b928

Florius Frammel
01-28-2018, 11:00 AM
I guess there is no translation of le clefs du cabinet hérmetique available yet?

Weidenfeld
01-28-2018, 12:22 PM
I guess there is no translation of le clefs du cabinet hérmetique available yet?

Right !

Illen's project seem not be affected at all since those ones who know French might read the original Ms, all others should wait for the translation anyway :)

JDP
01-28-2018, 02:36 PM
I‘m not quite sure but I have been on search for another source coming up by Fulcanelli (or maybe the one you disguise ?) for many years, it‘s

„La clef du cabinet hermétique“ !

At that time (20 years or more) it was even not mentioned in certain collections or catalogues ... but now we have another situation where huge collections of such mss are available for almost everyone who‘s interested in and there is no space for slynesses anymore ...


------------------------------------------------------------------

That manuscript is in fact now available thanks to us (I, who "discovered" the surviving copy of it located in the New York Public Library, and two other people who collaborated in getting the EXPENSIVE fee of having it scanned), not because it was graciously made available for free by some charitable institution. Had it not been for us, most people would still not know that a surviving copy of this treatise actually existed! (Fulcanelli's copy of this text, the only other one known to exist, has been "missing" for decades, the last person to see it was Canseliet, and no one else seems to have seen it since.)

JDP
01-28-2018, 02:37 PM
I guess there is no translation of le clefs du cabinet hérmetique available yet?

We are working on it, as well as a transcription of the French text. It is almost finished, it is in "review" stage. It will be published sometime later this year (hopefully.)

Aham
01-28-2018, 03:02 PM
We are working on it, as well as a transcription of the French text. It is almost finished, it is in "review" stage. It will be published sometime later this year (hopefully.)

JDP, are you and iAC collaborating on this English translation or is your work effort entirely separate?

Aham
01-28-2018, 03:08 PM
Aham, you obviously misunderstood me ... the questioned Ms is three or four times mentioned in Fulcanelli's "Le Mystere des Cathedrales".

For example pag. 31 as a footnote:
3) La Clef du Cabinet hermétique. Mss. du XVIII° siècle.
Anon., s. l. n. d.

or pag. 37:

« L’eau dont nous nous servons, écrit l’auteur anonyme de la Clef du Cabinet Hermétique, est une eau qui renferme toutes les vertus du ciel et dela terre ; c’est pourquoi elle est le Dissolvant général de toute la Nature ;

https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/69a4c6a0-7b23-0131-67d8-58d385a7b928#/?uuid=698da3a0-7b23-0131-b26f-58d385a7b928

I guess what you were saying was that the manuscript in question was referenced 3-4 times in Fulcanelli's "Le Mystere des Cathedrals." Thanks Weidenfeld.

JDP
01-28-2018, 03:56 PM
JDP, are you and iAC collaborating on this English translation or is your work effort entirely separate?

Yes, he is in fact one of the people I mentioned before who helped defray the cost of having the manuscript scanned.

Florius Frammel
01-28-2018, 05:20 PM
That's nice, JDP!
I would appreciate a note when the translation is available.
Thanks!

Schmuldvich
01-29-2018, 05:52 AM
That manuscript is in fact now available thanks to us (I, who "discovered" the surviving copy of it located in the New York Public Library, and two other people who collaborated in getting the EXPENSIVE fee of having it scanned), not because it was graciously made available for free by some charitable institution. Had it not been for us, most people would still not know that a surviving copy of this treatise actually existed! (Fulcanelli's copy of this text, the only other one known to exist, has been "missing" for decades, the last person to see it was Canseliet, and no one else seems to have seen it since.)


Yes, he is in fact one of the people I mentioned before who helped defray the cost of having the manuscript scanned.

About how much did y'all end up having to pay when it was all said and done?

JDP
01-29-2018, 02:06 PM
About how much did y'all end up having to pay when it was all said and done?

Quite a bit... Libraries do not have a tendency of scanning entire manuscripts for free, except when if it is for their own benefit. And in this case there was no other choice, as this is the only surviving copy of this text still known to exist (Fulcanelli's copy, the only other one that we have notice of, seems to have "vanished" from the face of the Earth! Canseliet saw it and gave a description of it, but that was decades ago, and no one since seems to have seen it again), so we were at the "mercy" of the NYPL; whatever they requested as a fee for scanning the manuscript we had to agree to it.

Schmuldvich
01-29-2018, 02:23 PM
Quite a bit... Libraries do not have a tendency of scanning entire manuscripts for free, except when if it is for their own benefit. And in this case there was no other choice, as this is the only surviving copy of this text still known to exist (Fulcanelli's copy, the only other one that we have notice of, seems to have "vanished" from the face of the Earth! Canseliet saw it and gave a description of it, but that was decades ago, and no one since seems to have seen it again), so we were at the "mercy" of the NYPL; whatever they requested as a fee for scanning the manuscript we had to agree to it.

$10, $100, $1000, $5000?? "Expensive" and "Quite a bit" are both so vague and relative to where one is at in life...

How long did it take from initial request to completion for the NYPL to get it to you?

JDP
01-29-2018, 02:48 PM
$10, $100, $1000, $5000?? "Expensive" and "Quite a bit" are both so vague and relative to where one is at in life...

How long did it take from initial request to completion for the NYPL to get it to you?

Why do you want to know the actual fee? Suffice it to say that it was in the "three digits" realm.

It took a few months for them to actually carry out the processing of the order and scanning of the manuscript, since we started making our inquiries about this in mid December, and the staff in charge of reproductions was going away for the holidays, so we had to wait until January for them to continue responding to our questions and requests.

Salazius
02-01-2018, 02:52 PM
JDP you made a great thing for the Alchemical Community. Bravo and thank you very much.

Have you decided which publisher you will contact in order to make it available in french and english?

JDP
02-01-2018, 03:51 PM
JDP you made a great thing for the Alchemical Community. Bravo and thank you very much.

Have you decided which publisher you will contact in order to make it available in french and english?

Aaron Cheak will be in charge of making the final review of the transcription and translation, and then publish it sometime later this year (hopefully.)

http://www.aaroncheak.com/about/

Hellin Hermetist
02-01-2018, 04:16 PM
Good work JDP. I had a quick look over that text. The author says that he knew perfectly how to make the Stone, but he had never made the experience with his own hands, because he lacked the necessary time and energy. That sounds suspicious. In another point he says that there are two ways to make the stone. One is the way of the art, in which nature plays only a small role. The other is the way of Nature and the way of the ancients, where Nature works for the most part by herself and the only thing the artist do is helping Nature. Now comes the interesting part. He says that the first way, the one of Art, makes use of common metallic gold and common metallic mercury. The natural way, on the other hand, makes use of the philosophical matter. He says that Philalethes has described mainly the first way, the one invented by the moderns, which use gold and metallic mercury. But he has meddled some procedure of the natural way as well, to confuse the reader. That sounds more suspicious. Those and some other things have made me cast doubts on the credibility of that author.

Aham
02-01-2018, 07:07 PM
Why do you want to know the actual fee? Suffice it to say that it was in the "three digits" realm.

It took a few months for them to actually carry out the processing of the order and scanning of the manuscript, since we started making our inquiries about this in mid December, and the staff in charge of reproductions was going away for the holidays, so we had to wait until January for them to continue responding to our questions and requests.

JDP, if you need something scanned at the NYPL, please let me know. I do go to NY a few times a year and if time permits, spend some time making copies or find someone that is willing to do the work. Just depends on the library location.

JDP
02-01-2018, 08:04 PM
JDP, if you need something scanned at the NYPL, please let me know. I do go to NY a few times a year and if time permits, spend some time making copies or find someone that is willing to do the work. Just depends on the library location.

Thanks, that will do for regular books and articles, but when it comes to rare manuscripts & books they just don't allow anyone but the staff to copy them.

Aham
02-02-2018, 01:56 AM
Thanks, that will do for regular books and articles, but when it comes to rare manuscripts & books they just don't allow anyone but the staff to copy them.

Fair point. Wondering if smoozing the staff helps :D

Florius Frammel
08-28-2018, 06:49 AM
Fair point. Wondering if smoozing the staff helps :D

Any news on this topic here?

JDP
08-28-2018, 08:45 AM
Any news on this topic here?

Still working on it. Some parts of our transcription have problems that will be dealt with before sending it to the publisher. Naturally, parts of the translation will be changed according to the final changes that will be made to the transcription of the French text.

z0 K
08-28-2018, 09:50 PM
I'm glad you are enjoying the book, Florius! It's also good to see that it's now available on Amazon and a more affordable price. The earlier books were limited edition, and thus a little more expensive. That seems to be the trend these days - to issue a limited edition version followed by a much more affordable paperback version. They both contain the very same information.

The next important book (also heavily used by Fulcanelli) to be released is "La Clef du Cabinet Hermetique". I was hoping that it would have been published by late Spring, but because of various ongoing issues, it looks like it might take some time yet.

I went to order a copy from amazon just now and it appears they are temporarily out of stock.

Illen A. Cluf
08-28-2018, 10:17 PM
I went to order a copy from amazon just now and it appears they are temporarily out of stock.

They must be selling fast! Perhaps my publisher only has a small quantity printed at a time.

Illen A. Cluf
08-29-2018, 01:11 AM
I went to order a copy from amazon just now and it appears they are temporarily out of stock.

I just heard back from the Publisher, and he said that the "temporarily out of stock" statement by Amazon is sort of a misnomer. The book is actually "print on demand", so it should be available as soon as it is printed.

He also said that there are still copies of the limited edition available, should anyone be so inclined.

I understand that he's also doing a podcast interview on the book this Friday with Awani, our local podcast expert :-)

z0 K
08-29-2018, 03:47 AM
I just heard back from the Publisher, and he said that the "temporarily out of stock" statement by Amazon is sort of a misnomer. The book is actually "print on demand", so it should be available as soon as it is printed.

He also said that there are still copies of the limited edition available, should anyone be so inclined.

I understand that he's also doing a podcast interview on the book this Friday with Awani, our local podcast expert :-)

Thanks I'll be looking forward to the interview as well.

Mr Curious
08-29-2018, 01:40 PM
Is this in English or in French?

Illen A. Cluf
08-29-2018, 02:04 PM
Is this in English or in French?

It includes both the French and the English translation.

Illen A. Cluf
05-04-2019, 03:18 PM
As an update, the transcription, translation, introduction and appendix of La Clef du Cabinet Hermetique has just been completed, and sent to the Publisher.

The Publisher has indicated his great interest in publishing this important book, as a companion volume to "Hermetic Recreations", which was published by Rubedo Press in 2017.

Fulcanelli derived a significant part of his approach from these two books which he references in his writings. These books provide much more detail and explanation behind the approach, which Fulcanelli often explained in an enigmatic way.

Prior to JDP's discovery of the only known known copy of this elusive manuscript, it was assumed that it had been forever lost. At some considerable effort and cost, we were finally able to obtain a copy, and over a period of five years, we then (along with one other partner) carefully transcribed and translated it from the Middle French language.

I will keep everyone informed of when the book will be published.

Florius Frammel
05-04-2019, 05:01 PM
Hooray!

I am sure you and JDP did an excellent job! I am really looking forward to get and read this book.

Please keep us up to date!

Oh, and I'd appreciate an uncomplicated shipping to europe like it was done some time after the release of Hermetic Recreations. At the beginning one had to order it directly from Australia and the shipping fees were much too high. I don't know whether you two might have an influence on Aaron Cheak about this.

BTW, I am 100% sure that La Clef des douze clefs de Frère Basile Valentin also belongs to this lineage and Fulcanelli and Canseliet knew that book as well. It is imo stylistically very similar to Hermetic Recreations and from that time.

Kiorionis
05-04-2019, 05:11 PM
Yes this is good news!

Illen, will Rubedo Press be publishing Le Clefs du Cabinet Hermetique?

Illen A. Cluf
05-04-2019, 05:38 PM
Hooray!

I am sure you and JDP did an excellent job! I am really looking forward to get and read this book.

Please keep us up to date!

Oh, and I'd appreciate an uncomplicated shipping to europe like it was done some time after the release of Hermetic Recreations. At the beginning one had to order it directly from Australia and the shipping fees were much too high. I don't know whether you two might have an influence on Aaron Cheak about this.

BTW, I am 100% sure that La Clef des douze clefs de Frère Basile Valentin also belongs to this lineage and Fulcanelli and Canseliet knew that book as well. It is imo stylistically very similar to Hermetic Recreations and from that time.

I'll talk to Aaron about this, but I'm not sure if he will have much influence on shipping charges from New Zealand (or Australia). It's about the furthest location away on the globe.

Illen A. Cluf
05-04-2019, 05:40 PM
Yes this is good news!

Illen, will Rubedo Press be publishing Le Clefs du Cabinet Hermetique?

Yes, it will be Rubedo Press. We found that they did excellent work on the publication, and Aaron is also very knowledgeable about Hermetics/Alchemy.

Florius Frammel
05-04-2019, 06:06 PM
I'll talk to Aaron about this, but I'm not sure if he will have much influence on shipping charges from New Zealand (or Australia). It's about the furthest location away on the globe.

Last time (Hermetic Recreations) he or someone else must have managed it to distribute it at amazon (zero shipping fees) after some weeks. I purchased it from there then. Maybe this could be an option right from the beginning this time?

Kiorionis
05-04-2019, 07:51 PM
Yes, it will be Rubedo Press. We found that they did excellent work on the publication, and Aaron is also very knowledgeable about Hermetics/Alchemy.

Awesome. I agree Rubedo Press did a wonderful job on Hermetic Recreations. I’m glad to see they will be involved again.

Can’t wait for more updates!

Illen A. Cluf
05-04-2019, 08:56 PM
Last time (Hermetic Recreations) he or someone else must have managed it to distribute it at amazon (zero shipping fees) after some weeks. I purchased it from there then. Maybe this could be an option right from the beginning this time?

Great suggestion, although was it only the paperback version that got sold on Amazon and not the limited edition hardbacks? I will mention it to Aaron.

Florius Frammel
05-04-2019, 09:30 PM
Great suggestion, although was it only the paperback version that got sold on Amazon and not the limited edition hardbacks? I'm mention it to Aaron.

Yes, if I remember correctly only the paperback version was available. I believe the hardcover came out first and the paperback on amazon much later. If a similar strategy is planned again, I'd have nothing against buying the hardcover at amazon too..;)

Uncle Scrooge
01-20-2020, 01:53 AM
Any update on when the English translation is going to be published and available for purchase?

Illen A. Cluf
01-20-2020, 03:22 PM
Any update on when the English translation is going to be published and available for purchase?

Yes, we were just talking to our publisher recently, and he said it will most likely be released this Spring. He's had our final draft for a fairly long time, but he was busy with another publication.

Now that he's had time to look at it, he's quite excited about it. It's an important and revealing book used by Fulcanelli.

Via Veritatis
02-10-2020, 10:09 AM
Hi everyone!

I saw the posts about the translation of this excellent book which is "The Key to the Hermetic Cabinet" and I wanted to make my humble contribution to this fascinating manuscript.

First of all, I would like to thank the efforts of JDP and Illen A. Cluf: their efforts and both their philosophical and empirical explanations about this art cause admiration in all serious students of Alchemy.

As for the content of the book itself, I already had the opportunity to read it and I would like to add my humble opinion on the subject.

It is an extremely recommendable book for every serious student who seeks understanding and progress in the Philosophy. Although it is necessary to warn that no Alchemy book sheds light on all points of the Great Work, as well as not always everything he says must be followed to the letter, as the author of the "Hermetic Cabinet" himself warns; nevertheless, this book sheds much light on several points that have always remained under the veil of mystery or at most in the field of innuendo.

It is true that the author confesses to never having operated the Work, but this is understandable given the difficulties involved. These difficulties could be summarized in four main ones and dozens of other minor ones that happen in the course of the work and the philosophers themselves warn us about them. The main four, in my opinion, are: the identity of matter, the magnet for astral fire, the works of Hercules and the correct order of philosophical operations.

The identity of the matter is a search that can last a lifetime. Many who came to discover its real identity never proceeded with the work because of all the challenges involved in fighting this dragon.

Another mystery not revealed, at least as far as I read in the texts, is the identity of the magnet that attracts the celestial fire. No matter how many matters or salts are used for this purpose, the liquors obtained do not produce the results appointed by the philosophers.

Hercules' work itself is another labyrinth from which it is necessary to know the correct way out before entering. Although the philosophers suggest the way to go, there are still many blind spots that can cause the artist to get lost on the way or even endanger his life. Cyliani himself, even after 37 years of in-depth studies, was seriously injured at this point, given the difficulties involved in dealing with this venomous dragon.

After the works of Hercules were finished, the work that philosophers say is a woman's work and child's play follows. Even the most sincere philosophers hide many things in the course of their hermetic work.

In view of all these difficulties, I am not surprised that many philosophers have stayed only in the field of theory, as was the author of "Hermetic Cabinet." I dare to say that only a rich artist, with adequate instruments and facilities, enjoying the help of an Adept who extends his hand, have a chance in this work which is called "the way of the poor." :confused:

Despite all these difficulties, the author of the "Hermetic Cabinet" is quite sincere and approaches very sincerely, but always asking us to put salt in his words, the matter of the philosophers, how to obtain the fire and a part of the works of Hercules .

This book is essential for the understanding of Fulcanelli and all the artists who deal with this work through the universal wet path.

Illen A. Cluf
02-11-2020, 03:53 PM
Thank you for the kind words, V.V..

I agree that this book goes far in explaining much of the confusing text contained in many of the more allegorical and confusing alchemical books, and helps a great deal in further understanding what Fulcanelli wrote. This is definitely one of the texts Fulcanelli used and was assumed "lost" until JDP re-discovered it several years ago. As you pointed out, it doesn't reveal all of the hidden mysteries, such as the identity of the subject matter, as no alchemist would ever do so. But it sure helps narrow down the focus.

In addition to Le Clef du Cabinet Hérmetique (which is to be published by Rubedo Press this Spring), there are two other texts that Fulcanelli relied heavily on, and I strongly recommend reading them as well. They are:

1. Hermes Trismegistus Old and True Natural Path, by I.C.H., Leipzig, 1782. This was translated by Gunnar Kossatz, and published by Lulu Press in 2012.

2. Hermetic Recreations: Including the Scholium, by Anonymous, (likely written between the late-eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries). This was translated by Christer Boke and John Koopmans, with contributions from Stanislas Klossowski de Rola and Aaron Cheak and published by Rubedo Press in 2017.

This last text actually does come very close to suggesting what the subject matter might be.

Schmuldvich
02-11-2020, 05:52 PM
This last text actually does come very close to suggesting what the subject matter might be.

Which passages do you feel elucidate our Matter in HTOATNP?

Andro
02-11-2020, 06:32 PM
1. Hermes Trismegistus Old and True Natural Path

2. Hermetic Recreations: Including the Scholium

This last text actually does come very close to suggesting what the subject matter might be.

Which passages do you feel elucidate our Matter in HTOATNP?
He wrote "this last text", which I guess refers to "Hermetic Recreations", not to "Hermes Old Nature Path".

Andro
02-12-2020, 08:56 AM
"Old Nature Path" appears to be quite explicit about the Magnet being sourced from Man.

"Hermetic Recreations" seems to point to some type of "clay", as both the "Matter" (in the book) and the "Magnet" (in the Scholium).

Illen A. Cluf
02-12-2020, 05:01 PM
"Old Nature Path" appears to be quite explicit about the Magnet being sourced from Man.



I agree. The author suggests that the source is in man and that it is a universal spiritus mundi, like the breath of God (Odem). It is the "fire light of all creatures of the world".

This is the magnet for the universal mercury.

Illen A. Cluf
05-29-2020, 07:31 PM
Stay tuned. "La Clef du Cabinet Hérmetique" will be released very soon under the English translation title: "The Key to the Hermetic Sanctum". This is the more accurate translation of the French title to English.

This will appear in a very professional layout, and will include both the French transcription (modern as well as original French words where different) and a very accurate English translation, along with a commentary.

Because of the Covid-19 situation, the Publisher will be publishing it first in a more affordable paperback version, likely available on Amazon, and then later in a limited hardback version for collectors.

I'm very excited that this book will soon become available, and look forward to relevant discussions which I am confident will elevate our understanding of the deeper mysteries.

This is one of the key texts that Fulcanelli relied upon in his study, and contains some very revealing information about alchemy.

The publisher has already produced a very attractive draft version, which we are currently reviewing. Once we have agreed on the changes, the Publisher will be arranging its publication.

This book is a companion to similar key sources used by Fulcanelli, which together reveal different aspects of the mystery. The other books include: Hermetic Recreations, Hermes Trismegistus Old and True Natural Path and Hermes Unveiled (Cyliani).

One modern alchemist, who has claimed to have discovered the secret to the Philosophers Stone, cites La Clef du Cabinet Hérmetique as one of the key alchemical books ever written.

Roburus
05-30-2020, 12:06 AM
Please let us know when it is published, I don't want to miss it, it seems to be a great thing. Do you have any idea what the starting price could be? Thank you very much for your valuable effort.

Who is that "modern alchemist" you mention?

Kiorionis
05-30-2020, 12:44 AM
Awesome Illen! Thanks for the update, I’m excited about this new translation!

Florius Frammel
05-30-2020, 06:56 AM
I am happy to hear that, Illen!
Please keep us up to date!

Illen A. Cluf
05-30-2020, 01:57 PM
Please let us know when it is published, I don't want to miss it, it seems to be a great thing. Do you have any idea what the starting price could be? Thank you very much for your valuable effort.

Who is that "modern alchemist" you mention?

Hi Roburus. I'm not sure what the price will be as I don't think the publisher has made final arrangements yet.

I'll keep everyone up to date on the status.

thoth
05-30-2020, 02:30 PM
Hi Illen,

Thats great, I hope to get a hardback version when available ......

Dendritic Xylem
05-30-2020, 06:27 PM
Looking forward to this. Thanks to everyone involved.

Illen A. Cluf
12-07-2020, 03:33 PM
Finally! I have just heard that the translated La Clef du Cabinet Hérmetique book (that Fulcanelli relied on) is at the Printer and a few copies have already been sent to me. A Press Release by Rubedo Press is expected soon. As soon as I see the Release, I will post a link.

It will also be titled by the English equivalent, "The Key to the Hermetic Sanctum".

Kiorionis
12-08-2020, 12:53 PM
Awesome! Thanks for the update Illen!

Illen A. Cluf
12-19-2020, 06:29 PM
For all of you who have patiently awaited the release of La Clef du Cabinet Hermetique (The Key to the Hermetic Sanctum), it has finally been published and can be ordered here:

https://rubedo.press/the-key-to-the-hermetic-sanctum

It is very affordable at only $25 US.

Here is the Table of Contents (in French and English):


TABLE OF CONTENTS
Preface
Aaron Cheak, PhD

Introduction
Christer Böke, John Koopmans, Juan Duc Perez

Transcription and Translation
La Clef du Cabinet Hermétique | The Key to the Hermetic Sanctum

Première partie | First part

Avant-propos | Foreword

1. De la matière en général | Of matter in general

2. De la matière en particulier | Of matter in particular

3. De la préparation des Eléments et de leur séparation en géneral | Of the preparation of the elements and their separation in general

4. Des Eléments en particuliers et de leur préparation | Of the elements in particular and their preparation

5. Des opérations en général | Of operations in general


Partie deuxième | Second part

Avant-propos: Des opérations en particulier qui sont absolument nécessaires pour la pratique | Foreword: Of the operations in particular which are absolutely necessary for the practice

1. De l’extraction des teintures | Of the extraction of the tinctures

2. De la séparation des éléments | Of the separation of the elements

3. De l’extraction des corps des deux luminaires soleil et lune | Of the extraction of the bodies of the two luminaries, sun and moon

4. De la Conversion des éléments et la conjonction des deux luminaires, la lune et le soleil | Of the conversion of the elements and the conjunction of the two luminaries, the moon and the sun

5. Du mercure des philosophes | Of the mercury of the philosophers

6. De la séparation et purification des principes de notre mercure
en général | Of the separation and purification of the principles of our mercury in general

7. De la Composition du grand dissolvant et du mercure des philosophes | Of the composition of the great solvent and the mercury of the philosophers


Table de ce qui est contenu dans ce manuscrit, qui peut servir d’instruction abrégée | Table of what is contained in this manuscript, which can serve as an abridged instruction

Appendix: How many Hermetic Cabinets?
Christer Böke, John Koopmans, Juan Duc Perez

Bibliography

Florius Frammel
12-20-2020, 07:06 AM
This is so great, Illen!
For EU buyers it's also already available via Amazon (20€ softcover). So if you don't have problems with ordering from this organization, you can save quite a lot of shipping fees this way.

Andro
12-20-2020, 07:17 AM
For EU buyers it's also already available via Amazon (20€ softcover). So if you don't have problems with ordering from this organization, you can save quite a lot of shipping fees this way.
20,80€ with free shipping on Amazon.de - however it's not available yet, only for pre-order. Think I'll order from Rubedo. Also, fuck amazon whenever there is an alternative available. I've been avoiding them as much as possible.

Kiorionis
12-20-2020, 03:22 PM
Awesome! Can’t wait!

Dendritic Xylem
12-21-2020, 12:48 AM
Just placed the order. Glad I decided to check the forum right now. Many thanks to everyone that worked on the project.

Illen A. Cluf
12-23-2020, 04:50 PM
The following is a very interesting article regarding the background and relevance of La Clef du Cabinet Hermetique (The Key to the Hermetic Cabinet) by the editor of the book, in turn, based on what the authors stated in the book.

https://rubedo.press/propaganda/2020...ers-fulcanelli

thoth
12-23-2020, 09:17 PM
Thanks Illen. The link seems to be broken at the moment.


Would you know if they plan on a hard copy version as well ? If not I will just get the paperback - don't want to miss this book

Illen A. Cluf
12-23-2020, 11:44 PM
Thanks Illen. The link seems to be broken at the moment.

Try this:

https://rubedo.press/propaganda/2020...ers-fulcanelli



Would you know if they plan on a hard copy version as well ? If not I will just get the paperback - don't want to miss this book

I beleive a hard cover wil be released at a later date. I will try to confirm this.

elixirmixer
12-24-2020, 05:02 AM
Illen I'm trying to buy RAMS but the website seems to be down. Do you know where I can buy a copy?

Illen A. Cluf
12-24-2020, 05:52 PM
Illen I'm trying to buy RAMS but the website seems to be down. Do you know where I can buy a copy?

Try contacting them here:

https://ramsalchemy.jimdofree.com/contact/

Philosophical
01-03-2021, 04:31 AM
Try this:

https://rubedo.press/propaganda/2020...ers-fulcanelli




I beleive a hard cover wil be released at a later date. I will try to confirm this.

https://rubedo.press/propaganda/2020/12/20/founding-fathers-fulcanelli <-- this link will work for the above translation.

Thanks again for being involved with another translation Illen, amazing work. Having read it is it of the same caliber of clarity as say recreations/true path?

Illen A. Cluf
01-03-2021, 08:17 PM
https://rubedo.press/propaganda/2020/12/20/founding-fathers-fulcanelli <-- this link will work for the above translation.

Thanks again for being involved with another translation Illen, amazing work. Having read it is it of the same caliber of clarity as say recreations/true path?

Yes @Philosophical, it is of the same caliber as Hermetic Recreations (Recreations Hermetique), which was another major text that Fulcanalli used and referred to, and which we published in 2017. I just received my own copies of La Clef du Cabinet Hermetique (The Key to the Hermetic Cabinet) from the Publisher just last week.

Hermes Trismegistus Old and true Natural Path (Des Hermes Trismegistus wahrer alter Naturweg) was translated/published by someone else (Gunnar Kossatz) in 2012, but should be grouped along with these other two. I highly recommend acquiring all three. Together, they explain most of the alchemical work, almost openly.

Happy New Year!

Andro
01-03-2021, 09:04 PM
I just received my own copies of La Clef du Cabinet Hermetique (The Key to the Hermetic Cabinet) from the Publisher just last week.
Any idea how long it takes to ship to Europe? Ordered it around 2 weeks ago, hasn't arrived yet...

Illen A. Cluf
01-04-2021, 05:05 PM
Any idea how long it takes to ship to Europe? Ordered it around 2 weeks ago, hasn't arrived yet...

Hi Andro, Happy New Year! I'm not sure how long it will take, but the Publisher told us: "I will most likely begin processing orders in the first week of January, which will give us time to make any last minute amendments should we notice anything seriously amiss once the hard copies arrive."

Also, I believe the Printer is in New Zealand, and I know for a fact that mail between North America and Australia is slow and unpredictable (thus New Zealand as well), It took a couple of weeks for me to receive my copies, which arrived a week ago, December 30.

Philosophical
01-05-2021, 02:55 AM
Just ordered my copy, hopefully shipping from NZ to Australia isn't so bad (Not holding my breath though!). Huge thanks to Illen and JDP for your hard work of finding, getting it scanned and translating the manuscript. May the sweat of all your labors be returned to you as an abundance of sweet nectar!

Much looking forward to the upcoming discussion about what this manuscript reveals of our understandings of the Art.

Illen A. Cluf
01-05-2021, 05:31 AM
Just ordered my copy, hopefully shipping from NZ to Australia isn't so bad (Not holding my breath though!). Huge thanks to Illen and JDP for your hard work of finding, getting it scanned and translating the manuscript. May the sweat of all your labors be returned to you as an abundance of sweet nectar!

Much looking forward to the upcoming discussion about what this manuscript reveals of our understandings of the Art.

Thanks, Philosophical! That is my greatest hope - that there will be discussion about what the book reveals once it has been read.

Andro
01-22-2021, 05:58 PM
Hi Illen,

It's been more than a month since ordering, and nothing arrived yet. Not questioning their reliability, just wondering what's happening...


Hi Andro, Happy New Year! I'm not sure how long it will take, but the Publisher told us: "I will most likely begin processing orders in the first week of January, which will give us time to make any last minute amendments should we notice anything seriously amiss once the hard copies arrive."

Also, I believe the Printer is in New Zealand, and I know for a fact that mail between North America and Australia is slow and unpredictable (thus New Zealand as well), It took a couple of weeks for me to receive my copies, which arrived a week ago, December 30.

Illen A. Cluf
01-23-2021, 02:37 AM
Hi Illen,

It's been more than a month since ordering, and nothing arrived yet. Not questioning their reliability, just wondering what's happening...

Hi Andro,

Coincidentally, I was just going to provide an update tonight.

We received proof copies to make a final review, and some of us noticed several few minor errors, some of them related to the final format. We've been back and forth, agreeing on, and correcting, these errors over the last couple of weeks. This was just completed yesterday.

Unfortunately, we were waiting for one of the other authors to receive his copies, which he never received. They were redirected, but the Postal Service, as often happens, messed up communications, and they sent all the books back to the Publisher.

They've been resent, but this author has not yet received them.

Because of the time factor, the Publisher just today has informed us that he has decided to reprint the book based on the edits he's received so far and not wait for the other author to receive the Proof and review it. Since the book was VERY carefully reviewed, it is not likely that the other author will find any additional errors, and if so, they will likely be very minor.

Thus they should be printed very shortly and likely available by next week. Once I get a confirmation, I will pass it along.

We're very sorry for the delay, but we thought that the time to perfect this book was worthwhile.

The book will be of a very professional/academic standard with copious notes, a Preface, a lengthy and informative Introduction, a transcription and translation, a lengthy Appendix, and a Bibliography (about 250 pages in total).

~Illen

Andro
01-23-2021, 10:53 AM
Thanks for the update!

thoth
01-23-2021, 07:14 PM
I ordered on Amazon, and they say estimated delivery date is in March

Illen A. Cluf
01-23-2021, 07:51 PM
I ordered on Amazon, and they say estimated delivery date is in March

I have just written to the Publisher for clarification on the status of the books in terms of printing and delivery.

An update will be provided as soon as I hear back.

Illen

Illen A. Cluf
01-24-2021, 01:09 AM
I have just heard back from the Publisher. This is what he said:

"I'll upload the files to the printer today and we should be ready to send copies early next week. I'll let you know as soon as it's live. Amazon orders should follow once it's live, but I cannot ultimately control Amazon's delivery, only the availability of the title."

Kiorionis
01-26-2021, 11:49 PM
For those curious, I just received an email indicating that my copy of the book has shipped. Ordered off of Rubedo’s website, not Amazon.

So we all should be getting copies soon! Haha

Andro
01-28-2021, 11:32 AM
I just received an email indicating that my copy of the book has shipped. Ordered off of Rubedo’s website, not Amazon.
Same here.

Illen A. Cluf
01-28-2021, 10:56 PM
I just found out minutes ago that the book is indeed "live". I guess some of you found that out long before I did :-)

I'm anxiously waiting for the re-edited version.

Florius Frammel
02-03-2021, 01:38 PM
I just got email from Amazon. They sent it and it will be here tomorrow.

Philosophical
02-03-2021, 11:28 PM
I received mine in the mail 2 days ago. It is certainly an insightful text, I certainly have had a number of aha moments reading the text. I very much appreciated the author's explanation of the different operations in alchemy and gives me some indication that I am not completley fumbling around in the dark, I have a sense of touch which is unfortunately not yet a light! To those who have read it would you say that the author strongly hints at one starting matter coming from the animal kingdom? This is coming from reading between the lines of the opening part of the 4th chapter in the 1st part.

Again I thank Illen, JDP and the other contributor to getting this fine translation out there. It is a wonderful work!

Illen A. Cluf
02-04-2021, 03:15 PM
I received mine in the mail 2 days ago. It is certainly an insightful text, I certainly have had a number of aha moments reading the text. I very much appreciated the author's explanation of the different operations in alchemy and gives me some indication that I am not completley fumbling around in the dark, I have a sense of touch which is unfortunately not yet a light! To those who have read it would you say that the author strongly hints at one starting matter coming from the animal kingdom? This is coming from reading between the lines of the opening part of the 4th chapter in the 1st part.

Again I thank Illen, JDP and the other contributor to getting this fine translation out there. It is a wonderful work!

Thank you, Philosophical. It is indeed a very insightful book and provides a sound basis for the theory and practice. I'm still waiting for my revised edition. It's being shipped from New Zealand so could take some time.

Thanks also for starting a discussion of the contents - that was my main intention. Hope others join in once they have had a chance to read it.

Roburus
02-04-2021, 04:07 PM
To those who have read it would you say that the author strongly hints at one starting matter coming from the animal kingdom? This is coming from reading between the lines of the opening part of the 4th chapter in the 1st part.

I was able to read the text (the manuscript) and it seems to me that this is a misinterpretation, it clearly indicates that the matter must be extracted from metals, in fact, the Great Work belongs to the metallic kingdom. It is a good book, 50% operational, but just as there are things that it clarifies, others it obscures even more. There are processes that he describes in a complicated way, when in reality they are simple. Interesting parts: the stages of the work, the hollow oak and the head of the crow.

Philosophical
02-05-2021, 01:01 AM
Thank you for your thoughts and insights from the text Roberus. It is true that he does state things such as that. However I feel there is context both said and unsaid that leads me to believe that having "the eyes of a lynx" may be important here.



As for the matter from which we extract our elements; I have already told you that it was found everywhere, but the Philosophers had a particular subject from which they drew them: you will find them unfailingly and proximally in the metals, and many philosophers have found them there, and have done the work: but the method is more difficult because we must open the barriers by means known to few people, we shall write this work in another treatise: on the semi-minerals and plants; it is almost impossible, the matter being too remote and it would always be necessary to reduce it and join it to the metallic nature, which would be too long a work.


He speaks of metals/minerals and plants and says they're not what is discussed here. He says nothing of animals but read between the lines and this is a big hint toward the animal kingdom. He also speaks often in the book of 2 different paths. One relies more on art less on nature which uses metals (he says gold explicitly but with the above quote in mind I see it as metals, and the other, the path that he writes about in this treatise, more nature with only a bit of art. So I would say he affirms there is indeed a path with metals but it's not what he writes of in this treatise.

Florius Frammel
02-05-2021, 12:23 PM
It's imo noticeable, that compared to modern books on alchemy, these older works NEVER explicitly speak about man as the subject of the art.

Even the most materialistic researcher would acknowledge this "spiritual" part exists in the texts though! That doesn't mean such a person needs to "believe" in it. There is definately the method of the ancient greek philosphers or gnostics to mingle all kinds of religious and scientific believes, forms, deities together to eventually reach only one single thing (the stone).

So if this method and believe system is without question there between the lines, but never openely revealed, which path do you think is the first, the latter, the fast (in three days with one subject and vessel only - like discussed in the appendix), the long, the hard, the soft, the violent?

Which is the path Apuleius, Trevisianus and the other guys mentioned in this texts followed? This author cleary says he thinks that those people only knew and described one (the ancient) path. Which one is that? The path of an iron ore, urine, feces, antimony, or the more or less personal (but most likely not solely spiritual only) path to "the one"?

They almost always say our starting matter is pretty disgusting. What is the matter that people were told to despise the most in those times? ;)

Oh: And remember Fulcanelli saying the mirror is the symbol for our starting matter ;)

Andro
02-05-2021, 12:50 PM
these older works NEVER explicitly speak about man as the subject of the art.
I had the impression that I.C.H. was quite explicit about this...

Florius Frammel
02-05-2021, 01:09 PM
I had the impression that I.C.H. was quite explicit about this...

That's right. I'd need to replace NEVER with rarely. Never say never.

Greetings,
James Bond

Hellin Hermetist
02-05-2021, 01:34 PM
I was able to read the text (the manuscript) and it seems to me that this is a misinterpretation, it clearly indicates that the matter must be extracted from metals, in fact, the Great Work belongs to the metallic kingdom. It is a good book, 50% operational, but just as there are things that it clarifies, others it obscures even more. There are processes that he describes in a complicated way, when in reality they are simple. Interesting parts: the stages of the work, the hollow oak and the head of the crow.

Exactly. First matter comes from the metallic kingdom, as have said Geber, Arnaud, Raymond Lulle, Vallois, Vicot, D'Espagnet and all the classicals. Its nothting else than the humid and dry principles of the perfect metal, which have been seperated, purified and recombined to a new body. When you have accomplished ths first work you dont have much to do anymore. You simply have to put your prepared matter at the athanor and it will putrefy, dissolve in to a water, divide again into her own principles, purify by itseld and recongeal by itself to new, more glorious body. Thats the second labour which is work of nature. But the first labour. But the first labour its not easy at all according to the philosphers. To dissolve the metal, make it putrefy, separate it to its principles, purify those principles and recombine them to create the first matter of the Great Work, its a labour which asks for a perfect contemplation of the theory and a skillful chemical operator. Thats the path described by the ancients, in which common gold was essential. Now if later authors found the metallic principles in some vegetable or animal matter and extracted them from it i dont know, but it sounds strange to me.

Andro
02-05-2021, 03:26 PM
It's nothing else than the humid and dry principles of the perfect metal, which have been separated, purified and recombined to a new body.

Hi HH,

You would still require the "Secret Solvent" for this, and it is not sourced from the "perfect metals".

In fact, the "perfect" metals (i.e. gold) are quite fixed/locked and "dried up" in terms of (radical) humidity.

For "revivification" purposes, "our moisture" would have to be re-introduced artificially into those perfect metals.

Illen A. Cluf
02-05-2021, 04:44 PM
Don't forget that most of the confusion derives from books describing two different paths - one very long, the other very short.

Minerals are used in the traditional long path to prepare a universal solvent that is used on vulgar gold to extract its seed. There are various ways to achieve this.

In the short path, vulgar gold is not required at all. This is the path rarely mentioned or explained. There are also various ways to achieve this - apparently, also including one that can take less than 4 hours in total (assuming all the conditions have been met).

Thus the texts can become extremely confusing unless you not only know which "way" is being described, but which variation of that "way".

Florius Frammel
02-05-2021, 05:35 PM
Don't forget that most of the confusion derives from books describing two different paths - one very long, the other very short.

Minerals are used in the traditional long path to prepare a universal solvent that is used on vulgar gold to extract its seed. There are various ways to achieve this.

In the short path, vulgar gold is not required at all. This is the path rarely mentioned or explained. There are also various ways to achieve this - apparently, also including one that can take less than 4 hours in total (assuming all the conditions have been met).

Thus the texts can become extremely confusing unless you not only know which "way" is being described, but which variation of that "way".

Unfortunately the sources are far from clear on the duration of one or another path. In the part that I assume JDP wrote (How many Cabinets?) there are spans that reach from 3-4 days to 70 years. Especially the latter seems to match the age one could expect to live in the 17th - 18th century (the average lifespan was much lower due to high child deaths).

On the way to achieve the solvent, there are various symbols:

The white star (of Bethlehem) forming upon a black matter/earth (Black Madonna)

Putrefaction in an oak barrel

Fishing in a lake/the sea

Murder of Children to get their (red) blood (Opus Saturni)

Two streams (red and white) running out of an oak tree, coming from a fountain or the tits of a Maria/Sophia figure.

The rod on which a snake is winding/attracted to

Moses' /St George's/Athalante's/Siegfried's stick in a rock/dragon

A snake/rose/man on a cross

Only to name a few from memory..

Now the ancient greek method I was talking about in my last post is about "coagulating" the symbols which got "solved" before.

For example for the highest deity (some may want to call it the unthinkable mystery) there are different names like Zeus, Osiris, Jahwe, but actually the alchemists only meant "one" (or some prefer the Zero).

Of course other symbols like for example the snake was associated with the devil. But it was also the form of the spirit leaving a dead person's body. Merging the old and the new testament together you will find that the snake is also a symbol for christ.

According to the trinity (alchemical and christian), christ is god. So the devil is god too in a way.

It is therfore helpful to understand when the alchemists try to tell us to draw something out of dead things(metals and minerals were considered dead/unmoveable -yet eternal and full of Spiritus Mundi- compared to the growing and dying plants and animals).

Remember the Aurea Catena/Sephiroth and other systems: The most solid thing on earth is a representation of the deepest possible fall from the lightest thing possible (Call it Empyrean or Heaven, or Nirvana) and thus representing the fallen Lucifer/Devil.

Now the primordeal Chaos (some say water) god (the "one") created the world with, was considered female (the "two"). Thus all matter is female and a representation of this primordeal chaos.

Next step: The archetypical female (Maria, Sophia, Isis) in this gnostic/alchemical sense is equal to the symbol of fallen lucifer. And while Lucifer is the bearer of light, Maria also bears the light (Christ) within her.

Coming back to the symbols in order to get the initial solvent:

It's always out of matter that always bears this symbolic form:

The female

dead, hollow tree (but the oak is solar, male, sun-like)

cross

The hard rock

the snake

Saturn = Chronos = demiurg = JHWH for some

water

salt

aso...it can always be summarized under the symbol of the "two".

A path that is called, or supposed to be "universal" would never use particular matters, be it what it may, but must be possible to be applied to "everything". So in a way this is the principle of solve and coagula.

That's why the author of this Clefs compares the work with eating: For example you eat a plant and the matter of this plant becomes a part of you. Of course its mostly carbohydrates, fats and proteins, but the underlying principle (here applied to the particular example of eating) still remains the same.

Hellin Hermetist
02-05-2021, 06:36 PM
Hello friend,




You would still require the "Secret Solvent" for this, and it is not sourced from the "perfect metals".

I am almost conviced that this so much praised "secret solvent" isnt such a big secret after all. Its a solvent and not much more than that. The only thing it does is to introduce a "fire against nature" to the phenomenically homogenous matter of the metal, cause the metallic principles have been combined with such a strong union, that metals cant create an internal movement that will lead to dissolution and putrefaction by themselves. Dont forget that the second dissolution is the real philosophical one, where the internal metallic humidity dissolves its own earth. Thats the azoth which washes Leton and whitens it. The real secret solvent then is an internal part of the metal and corresponds to its humid part. The first humidity or solvent is only used to extract the internal one. After that it leaves the compost at some stage of the digestions.

As for the nature of the first solvent, I believe that any matter not heavily specified to one or the other kingdom, so as not to introduce its own principles and characteristics to the homogenou metallic matter, shall do the trick. So forget spirit of wine, vinegar, human blood and other matters from the vegetable or animal kingdom. The phlegmatic humidity of marl earth, sharpened by its own fixed and volatile salt, seemed to me like a bulletproof choice. May even the salts of dew or the eau-mere du salpetre can do the trick, as those matters arent much specified.





In fact, the "perfect" metals (i.e. gold) are quite fixed/locked and "dried up" in terms of (radical) humidity.

Fixed yes but not dried up, except from the phlegmatic humidity, which is really not there. All metals gives a perfect fusion at a lower or higher temp. With the exception of the impure and combustible earth or sulfur and a phlegmatic humidity which we introduce with the first solvent, which are both separated during the purification of internal principles or the digestio, rest of the metal is pure metallic humidity.

Hellin Hermetist
02-05-2021, 06:50 PM
Don't forget that most of the confusion derives from books describing two different paths - one very long, the other very short.

Minerals are used in the traditional long path to prepare a universal solvent that is used on vulgar gold to extract its seed. There are various ways to achieve this.

In the short path, vulgar gold is not required at all. This is the path rarely mentioned or explained. There are also various ways to achieve this - apparently, also including one that can take less than 4 hours in total (assuming all the conditions have been met).

Thus the texts can become extremely confusing unless you not only know which "way" is being described, but which variation of that "way".

Ηi Illen,

I dont study many books anymore. Most of them are written by charlatans. Limojon de St Didier have written about the extraction of the principles of a certain mineral substance, Fulcanelli also I think, and not many others. Philalethes/ Starkey has described its own mercurial/antimonial path and some authors have said that they had success with it. The only books I have kept at my alchemical library at pdf or printed format are: 1) Summa of Geber, 2) Raymond Lulle, his Testament and Codicillus, 3) Arcanum of D' Espagnet and 4) Vallois and Vicot's manuscripts. If we expecte Summa, which give many insights about the internal nature of metals, the other treatises seems to agree in many points and describe one and the same path. Philosophically speaking, I believe that Vicot and Vallois manuscripts are the best among the alchemical treatises, and sheds a clear ligth at the work of Lulle and his almost uncomprehensible cabal.
Apart from that, I believe that most of the treatises out there are written by real charlatans. Make the dissolution of the metal, its putrefaction, seperation of the principles, purification and recombination of them, and turn that wheel three consecutive times at four hours? Sorry but I dont buy that.

Illen A. Cluf
02-05-2021, 07:36 PM
Ηi Illen,

I dont study many books anymore. Most of them are written by charlatans. Limojon de St Didier have written about the extraction of the principles of a certain mineral substance, Fulcanelli also I think, and not many others. Philalethes/ Starkey has described its own mercurial/antimonial path and some authors have said that they had success with it. The only books I have kept at my alchemical library at pdf or printed format are: 1) Summa of Geber, 2) Raymond Lulle, his Testament and Codicillus, 3) Arcanum of D' Espagnet and 4) Vallois and Vicot's manuscripts. If we expecte Summa, which give many insights about the internal nature of metals, the other treatises seems to agree in many points and describe one and the same path. Philosophically speaking, I believe that Vicot and Vallois manuscripts are the best among the alchemical treatises, and sheds a clear ligth at the work of Lulle and his almost uncomprehensible cabal.
Apart from that, I believe that most of the treatises out there are written by real charlatans. Make the dissolution of the metal, its putrefaction, seperation of the principles, purification and recombination of them, and turn that wheel three consecutive times at four hours? Sorry but I dont buy that.

Hi Hellin,

The Summa has long been one of my favourite texts. I'm not too familiar with Vallois and Vicot's treatises, but will look into them.

As for the approach that requires less than 4 hours if the conditions are right, it is not at all done as in the traditional approach. Thus it does not require a dissolution of a metal, its putrefaction, separation, etc. This is why it has always been one of the most hidden of paths.

The Philosophical Gold is obtained almost directly from an unseen spiritual source, through the use of a "Magnet", and not from any metal whatsoever. I intend to try the approach this Spring in order to verify if it does work.

Hellin Hermetist
02-05-2021, 07:47 PM
Good luck with that procedure friend. What is the philosophical gold according to that certain path?

Illen A. Cluf
02-05-2021, 08:36 PM
Good luck with that procedure friend. What is the philosophical gold according to that certain path?

Spiritus Mundi in a fixed state.

black
02-06-2021, 01:28 AM
In fact, the "perfect" metals (i.e. gold) are quite fixed/locked and "dried up" in terms of (radical) humidity.

For "revivification" purposes, "our moisture" would have to be re-introduced artificially into those perfect metals.

Quite true Mr. Andro .... and it would also appear to be true that we can introduce
a Soul back into a dead metal to Enliven it and extract it again for various works
of transmutation and such like.

Philosophical
02-06-2021, 03:04 AM
It's imo noticeable, that compared to modern books on alchemy, these older works NEVER explicitly speak about man as the subject of the art.

Even the most materialistic researcher would acknowledge this "spiritual" part exists in the texts though! That doesn't mean such a person needs to "believe" in it. There is definately the method of the ancient greek philosphers or gnostics to mingle all kinds of religious and scientific believes, forms, deities together to eventually reach only one single thing (the stone).

So if this method and believe system is without question there between the lines, but never openely revealed, which path do you think is the first, the latter, the fast (in three days with one subject and vessel only - like discussed in the appendix), the long, the hard, the soft, the violent?

Which is the path Apuleius, Trevisianus and the other guys mentioned in this texts followed? This author cleary says he thinks that those people only knew and described one (the ancient) path. Which one is that? The path of an iron ore, urine, feces, antimony, or the more or less personal (but most likely not solely spiritual only) path to "the one"?

They almost always say our starting matter is pretty disgusting. What is the matter that people were told to despise the most in those times? ;)

Oh: And remember Fulcanelli saying the mirror is the symbol for our starting matter ;)

I have read a number of texts which deal with the preparation of salts, no matter the origin as explicitly stated in Ruesenstein manuscript but also detailed in texts like the Golden Chain (critisize it if you will but I feel this is indeed an important text). In the Thesaurus Thesaurorum we see many matters mentioned and it seems that getting that matter in a certain state is the important part. What are we to make of these texts then if metals and only metals are the key? I am definitely not saying you cannot find it in mineral matters but that from my readings my understanding is that out matter can be derived from a multitude of sources.

The honest answer to your questions is I am l'm not entirely sure. I have my own thoughts on it but it is purely speculation until I achieve the stone, I suspect that no one here has the stone and no avenue should be rejected out of hand. We are told in this text that the matter is found everywhere there are various degrees of difficulty in getting it to work. This lends my mind toward the approach in Ruesenstein where it is more about the preparation of salts to a certain quality and as I stated with the above quote, I believe this author is saying it is found in man.

The symbol of the mirror could quite rightly refer to man as the starting matter because when I look in a mirror I see an animal/man/myself.

Illen A. Cluf
02-06-2021, 08:08 PM
ΗPhilosophically speaking, I believe that Vicot and Vallois manuscripts are the best among the alchemical treatises, and sheds a clear ligth at the work of Lulle and his almost uncomprehensible cabal.

Hi Hellin,

I'm having difficulty finding these treatises. Do you know where I can find them, in English (preferably) or in French?

Thank you!

garvolt2002
02-06-2021, 09:06 PM
Hi Hellin,

I'm having difficulty finding these treatises. Do you know where I can find them, in English (preferably) or in French?

Thank you!
Is it this book? The Summa perfectionis of Pseudo-Geber. A critical edition, translation and study

Roburus
02-06-2021, 09:09 PM
In my personal opinion, I dont believe that there is a "specific subject" to carry out the great work, it is not the subject that matters, if not its "condition". This is explained very well by Norton and Ripley when they say that you can make the stone of anything (of the three kingdoms) if you separate and purify its elements. Of course, you need an advanced knowledge to do this, and know how to differentiate between the stone and the Elixir, which are not the same thing. Speaking again personally, I dont believe that there is a single "secret solvent", common gold does not enter the work if not until the end, in the fermentation, and there are many different ways to extract its tincture in what is known as "radical dissolution". For me, the most important aspect is not the obtaining of mercury or sulfur, but the salt, that's why the teachers rarely mentioned it or only gave vague details. And returning to the text, this is precisely a point where the author focuses, when pointing out the treatment that the Hermetic Triumph gives to this salt. However, it is not as simple as he says and omits details that only practice gives.

Illen A. Cluf
02-06-2021, 10:18 PM
Is it this book? The Summa perfectionis of Pseudo-Geber. A critical edition, translation and study

No, the ones by Nicolas Valois and Pierre Vicot.

Michael Sternbach
02-07-2021, 01:44 PM
Exactly. First matter comes from the metallic kingdom, as have said Geber, Arnaud, Raymond Lulle, Vallois, Vicot, D'Espagnet and all the classicals. Its nothting else than the humid and dry principles of the perfect metal, which have been seperated, purified and recombined to a new body. When you have accomplished ths first work you dont have much to do anymore. You simply have to put your prepared matter at the athanor and it will putrefy, dissolve in to a water, divide again into her own principles, purify by itseld and recongeal by itself to new, more glorious body. Thats the second labour which is work of nature. But the first labour. But the first labour its not easy at all according to the philosphers. To dissolve the metal, make it putrefy, separate it to its principles, purify those principles and recombine them to create the first matter of the Great Work, its a labour which asks for a perfect contemplation of the theory and a skillful chemical operator. Thats the path described by the ancients, in which common gold was essential. Now if later authors found the metallic principles in some vegetable or animal matter and extracted them from it i dont know, but it sounds strange to me.

Hi Hellin Hermetist

I agree with you. Seeking the path to the Stone, it is the more ancient writers that we should primarily turn our attention to. Arnald, Lull, Geber and a few others (e.g. Albert the Great) - they are all close to each other, sometimes to the degree that one clearly perused another one's books in writing his own (e.g. see William R. Newman's analysis in his edition of the Summa Perfectionis). Also, their works connect directly to the Arabic and Hellenistic conceptions, which is about as far as we can follow our art back to its roots.

And yes, aforesaid authors all describe the Great Work as beginning with metals! While they may have purposefully jumbled the exact procedures and omitted many a detail, they seem rather explicit as far as the matters to be used are concerned.


Ηi Illen,

I dont study many books anymore. Most of them are written by charlatans. Limojon de St Didier have written about the extraction of the principles of a certain mineral substance, Fulcanelli also I think, and not many others. Philalethes/ Starkey has described its own mercurial/antimonial path and some authors have said that they had success with it. The only books I have kept at my alchemical library at pdf or printed format are: 1) Summa of Geber, 2) Raymond Lulle, his Testament and Codicillus, 3) Arcanum of D' Espagnet and 4) Vallois and Vicot's manuscripts. If we expecte Summa, which give many insights about the internal nature of metals, the other treatises seems to agree in many points and describe one and the same path. Philosophically speaking, I believe that Vicot and Vallois manuscripts are the best among the alchemical treatises, and sheds a clear ligth at the work of Lulle and his almost uncomprehensible cabal.
Apart from that, I believe that most of the treatises out there are written by real charlatans. Make the dissolution of the metal, its putrefaction, seperation of the principles, purification and recombination of them, and turn that wheel three consecutive times at four hours? Sorry but I dont buy that.

Again, I agree that the later texts are primarily of interest insofar they take up the views of the medieval practitioners. This is not to say that some more recent authors, having profoundly explored Alchemy in their own right, were not able to make their own valuable contributions to the understanding of our art. For instance, Paracelsus and Sendivogius greatly elaborated on its underlying principles.

This would be my advice to whomever it may concern: In the study of any art or science, start from first principles! Otherwise you end up all too easily not being able to see the forest for the trees.

And those principles tie in with the natural philosophy of the ancients! Derived from Stoicism, Platonism, Aristotelianism, Hermetism - all blended into an admirably coherent and comprehensive cosmological system - this alone provides Ariadne's Thread that leads through the otherwise incomprehensible maze of the alchemical literature.

It is by no means coincidental that a deep understanding of nature in terms of the old philosophers was seen as a prerequisite for undertaking the Great Work in days gone by. ;)

Best wishes on your path! :)

Michael

Florius Frammel
02-07-2021, 02:29 PM
And those principles tie in with the natural philosophy of the ancients! Derived from Stoicism, Platonism, Aristotelianism, Hermetism - all blended into an admirably coherent and comprehensive cosmological system - this alone provides Ariadne's Thread that leads through the otherwise incomprehensible maze of the alchemical literature.

It is by no means coincidental that a deep understanding of nature in terms of the old philosophers was seen as a prerequisite for undertaking the Great Work in days gone by.

That's absolutely right. It can also be helpful not to stop there, but see how they dressed up the "eternal" principles in medieval and early modern times, in order to remove/wash/decant/distill/sublime them from their dresses/feces.

In this case, what if the metals aren't just metals? Just like the celestial bodies aren't just planets in this regard? Paracelsus said each man possess his own stars/planets inside his microcosm. What is written must not be taken by, but freed from the letter, as all the philosophers say.

Michael Sternbach
02-07-2021, 02:46 PM
It's imo noticeable, that compared to modern books on alchemy, these older works NEVER explicitly speak about man as the subject of the art.

Even the most materialistic researcher would acknowledge this "spiritual" part exists in the texts though! That doesn't mean such a person needs to "believe" in it. There is definately the method of the ancient greek philosphers or gnostics to mingle all kinds of religious and scientific believes, forms, deities together to eventually reach only one single thing (the stone).

So if this method and believe system is without question there between the lines, but never openely revealed, which path do you think is the first, the latter, the fast (in three days with one subject and vessel only - like discussed in the appendix), the long, the hard, the soft, the violent?

Which is the path Apuleius, Trevisianus and the other guys mentioned in this texts followed? This author cleary says he thinks that those people only knew and described one (the ancient) path. Which one is that? The path of an iron ore, urine, feces, antimony, or the more or less personal (but most likely not solely spiritual only) path to "the one"?

They almost always say our starting matter is pretty disgusting. What is the matter that people were told to despise the most in those times? ;)

Oh: And remember Fulcanelli saying the mirror is the symbol for our starting matter ;)

Hello James Bond :D

While there is little doubt in my mind that the older writers aimed at - in parallel with the practical work in the laboratory - the spiritual transformation of the practitioner, there is IMO little reason to assume that a physical substance of human origin traditionally played any role in the Great Work.

So I, for one, will happily forego dabbling in pee and poop, but hey - whatever floats your boat! :D

Michael Sternbach
02-07-2021, 03:08 PM
Don't forget that most of the confusion derives from books describing two different paths - one very long, the other very short.

Minerals are used in the traditional long path to prepare a universal solvent that is used on vulgar gold to extract its seed. There are various ways to achieve this.

In the short path, vulgar gold is not required at all. This is the path rarely mentioned or explained. There are also various ways to achieve this - apparently, also including one that can take less than 4 hours in total (assuming all the conditions have been met).

Thus the texts can become extremely confusing unless you not only know which "way" is being described, but which variation of that "way".

Indeed, and there seem to be mixed ways being suggested as well.

The so-called short path popularized by Philalethes goes back at least to Flamel. It seems to be based on Antimony as its starting matter.

Illen A. Cluf
02-07-2021, 03:27 PM
Indeed, and there seem to be mixed ways being suggested as well.

The so-called short path popularized by Philalethes goes back at least to Flamel. It seems to be based on Antimony as its starting matter.

Actually, the really short path goes all the way back to the first to third centuries, when Maria the Prophetess explained that she made it in less than a day. It has nothing to do with antimony.

Florius Frammel
02-07-2021, 03:34 PM
Drinking game: Have a shot of your favourite Spiritus each time this book says to not use your hands for the work. ;)

Edit: That isn't meant to put it down in making fun about it! I am actually enjoying reading it very much and am happy they brought it out.

Florius Frammel
02-07-2021, 04:00 PM
So I, for one, will happily forego dabbling in pee and poop, but hey - whatever floats your boat! :D


I wasn't speaking about these substances either, Michael! ;)

Michael Sternbach
02-07-2021, 04:06 PM
That's absolutely right. It can also be helpful not to stop there, but see how they dressed up the "eternal" principles in medieval and early modern times, in order to remove/wash/decant/distill/sublime them from their dresses/feces.

But in that process, distortions of the original concepts can easily occur. Again, this is not to suggest that later recipients may never be able to clarify and/or elaborate on the more traditional doctrines. However, this presupposes a thorough understanding of what the ancients had in mind.

But I don't stop with them in any way. On the contrary, I strongly advocate that the fundamental principles underlying the Hermetic arts should be reinterpreted from our modern perspective. In fact (as you may recall), I have been working on a book on that topic for the last 30 years or so. I hope to publish it (or its first volume, I should rather say :D ) in the course of this year, by the way. :)


In this case, what if the metals aren't just metals? Just like the celestial bodies aren't just planets in this regard? Paracelsus said each man possess his own stars/planets inside his microcosm. What is written must not be taken by, but freed from the letter, as all the philosophers say.

Well, I just don't see so much of that mystifying use of symbolic language e.g. in an author like Geber. In his books (as well as in some other, similar works of the period), the author describes his experiments in no uncertain terms, especially when it comes to the matters being employed. Including their physical and chemical characteristics, the ways of separating them from impurities, and so on.

It goes without saying that the exact order of the operations that constitute the Great Work, some of their details etc. raise plenty of questions nevertheless - but seen in context of Geber's writings, I am not sure why one would feel compelled to complicate matters further by supposing that when, e.g., he refers to gold, silver or mercury, he doesn't mean exactly what he says.

Michael Sternbach
02-07-2021, 04:36 PM
Actually, the really short path goes all the way back to the first to third centuries, when Maria the Prophetess explained that she made it in less than a day. It has nothing to do with antimony.

Dear Illen

Maybe I should have been more elaborate in light of the ever present elusiveness of alchemical terminology. I was specifically referring to the short path as represented by Philalethes and Flamel.

Yes, there are other "shortcuts" mentioned in the earlier literature. But at least in case of the aforementioned authors, it is pretty clear to me that antimony indeed played a central role in their search for the Stone.

Your mileage may differ.

Michael Sternbach
02-07-2021, 05:02 PM
I wasn't speaking about these substances either, Michael! ;)

Well, while the on here (not least by you) much referenced I.C.H./Adamah Booz/Adam Michael Birkholz was not very explicit regarding the starting matter of the Great Work in Hermes Trismegist's True and Natural Path, he did seem to refer to human waste matter in one of his other books (it was Compass of the Wise, I believe - it's been awhile since I looked into this writer and I soon lost interest in exploring him further after I had read the respective yucky passages).

If you weren't speaking about that kind of matter, would you care to elaborate on what you were speaking about? Only if this would not violate a STFU oath to some elusive council of adepts (or something like that) you may have made, of course. ;)

Illen A. Cluf
02-07-2021, 05:26 PM
Dear Illen

Maybe I should have been more elaborate in light of the ever present elusiveness of alchemical terminology. I was specifically referring to the short path as represented by Philalethes and Flamel.

Yes, there are other "shortcuts" mentioned in the earlier literature. But at least in case of the aforementioned authors, it is pretty clear to me that antimony indeed played a central role in their search for the Stone.

Your mileage may differ.

Actually, I've never been convinced that the authors, when talking about the mineral path, mean the vulgar Antimony, but rather "Our" Antimony. The symbol for Antimony also means "Earth".

I don't think any author would openly name the First Matter (or the matter(s) from which it is derived), except symbolically, or in some other confusing way.

This is not to say that it might work with Antimony in some way, as with other minerals, but it might be overly difficult, uncertain and long.

Florius Frammel
02-07-2021, 06:24 PM
Well, while the on here (not least by you) much referenced I.C.H./Adamah Booz/Adam Michael Birkholz was not very explicit regarding the starting matter of the Great Work in Hermes Trismegist's True and Natural Path, he did seem to refer to human waste matter in one of his other books (it was Compass of the Wise, I believe - it's been awhile since I looked into this writer and I soon lost interest in exploring him further after I had read the respective yucky passages).

If you weren't speaking about that kind of matter, would you care to elaborate on what you were speaking about? Only if this would not violate a STFU oath to some elusive council of adepts (or something like that) you may have made, of course. ;)

Sure!
First I don't think that ICH was Booz=Birkholz.
The text you have in mind is most likely "Von Natur und Kunst" and most likely describes a work with urine.

Imo the main path those guys describe is a salvation path like taught in several ancient mystery schools. It is actually the same at its core and still propagated by good and bad gurus nowadays. It's best to try to see it as barenaked as possible in order not fall into the traps of certain egoic institutions and persons who seek their own worldly fame and power.

Like you say the key is to learn the nomenclature that can be found in the teachings of those ancient masters and gnostic schools (there were and are a lot of bad too, it's not all gold that shines).

That doesn't mean I am not of the opinion that it could be possible to artificially make vulgar gold. But it's not that they had in mind, like the philosophers repeat over and over again.

Andro
02-07-2021, 07:14 PM
So you think those authors are not actually describing a "material" alchemical process, but an internal spiritual process? Because the principles are pretty much the same...

Michael Sternbach
02-08-2021, 12:54 AM
Actually, I've never been convinced that the authors, when talking about the mineral path, mean the vulgar Antimony, but rather "Our" Antimony. The symbol for Antimony also means "Earth".

Indeed, just like the symbol for copper is also the glyph for Venus and, as it happens, copper is the metal that is attributed to that planet. Whereas antimony is the "metal" associated with Earth.

The specification "our antimony" might simply indicate that the antimony has been treated in a way that turned it into a "philosophical" kind of matter.


I don't think any author would openly name the First Matter (or the matter(s) from which it is derived), except symbolically, or in some other confusing way.

The first matter is a somewhat mysterious unspecified type of matter already mentioned by the Greek natural philosophers (proton hyle). It is nowhere to be found on Earth in its original state, so yes, it must be derived from common matter.

It is a common belief that the adepts never openly mentioned their starting material, however, I believe this to be incorrect - especially when it comes to some of the more ancient writers. So this secret may be "hidden in plain sight", if you will.


This is not to say that it might work with Antimony in some way, as with other minerals, but it might be overly difficult, uncertain and long.

Some of the texts by the most respected adepts describe the preparation of actual antimony in great detail, though, e.g. for obtaining the star regulus.

black
02-08-2021, 12:58 AM
Imo the main path those guys describe is a salvation path like taught in several ancient mystery schools. It is actually the same at its core and still propagated by good and bad gurus nowadays. It's best to try to see it as barenaked as possible in order not fall into the traps of certain egoic institutions and persons who seek their own worldly fame and power.


Hi Florius

I fully agree with these thoughts of yours.

Alchemy is a natural science that can transmute base metals into gold (this is a test to
see if you are on the right track).

It is also a great medicine to help the Alchemist live longer to accomplish what really
needs to be done.

If you think of the Philosophers Stone as a power pack that can be used in many
different ways and in all of the three realms .... then more.

Michael Sternbach
02-08-2021, 01:07 AM
Sure!
First I don't think that ICH was Booz=Birkholz.

That sounds interesting, since I was indeed already wondering if there is a chance that some other text attributed to the author of Hermes Trismegist's True and Natural Path was actually the work of a different author.

Would you share your thoughts on this, please?


The text you have in mind is most likely "Von Natur und Kunst" and most likely describes a work with urine.

Yes, I think that's what it was.


Imo the main path those guys describe is a salvation path like taught in several ancient mystery schools.

Please explain who exactly you mean by "those guys".


It is actually the same at its core and still propagated by good and bad gurus nowadays. It's best to try to see it as barenaked as possible in order not fall into the traps of certain egoic institutions and persons who seek their own worldly fame and power.

Like you say the key is to learn the nomenclature that can be found in the teachings of those ancient masters and gnostic schools (there were and are a lot of bad too, it's not all gold that shines).

That doesn't mean I am not of the opinion that it could be possible to artificially make vulgar gold. But it's not that they had in mind, like the philosophers repeat over and over again.

There is nothing wrong with having wealth and power. The only question is how you apply them.

Michael Sternbach
02-08-2021, 01:28 AM
So you think those authors are not actually describing a "material" alchemical process, but an internal spiritual process? Because the principles are pretty much the same...

That's basically the Jungian view on alchemy, however, researchers like William R. Newman have shown that the alchemical texts often describe processes that can be reproduced in the laboratory.

The principles may essentially be the same, but how would you translate something like "take three ounces of copper and mix it with a spoonful of borax, then heat this mixture up by a fire of the fourth grade" into an instruction for a spiritual practice?

To me, alchemy is an art and science that is both physical AND spiritual. It bridges the apparent gap between the two realms in the most straightforward manner, that's what makes it so unique.

black
02-08-2021, 02:42 AM
To me, alchemy is an art and science that is both physical AND spiritual. It bridges the apparent gap between the two realms in the most straightforward manner, that's what makes it so unique.

Quite true Michael ... but there is possibly more to this story, lets not forget that Alchemy is only one part of what may be called The Great Work.

Hermes Trismegistus (from Ancient Greek: Ἑρμῆς ὁ Τρισμέγιστος, "Hermes the Thrice-Greatest" because he mastered the three parts of The Great Work.

Hermetics gives us the three parts and these parts work hand in hand with each other.

Many aspirants only pursue Alchemy and this is a possible reason why they find
no advancement in their Work.

Florius Frammel
02-08-2021, 03:01 PM
It goes without saying that the exact order of the operations that constitute the Great Work, some of their details etc. raise plenty of questions nevertheless - but seen in context of Geber's writings, I am not sure why one would feel compelled to complicate matters further by supposing that when, e.g., he refers to gold, silver or mercury, he doesn't mean exactly what he says.

There are chemical instructions by some of the alchemical authors, yes. Nevertheless I am following the conclusion that Fulcanelli gives in Demeurs: "Chemistry doesn't owe alchemy anything, as they have nothing to do with each other". He also says that alchemy mixed with spagyrics (he defines spagyries as "proto-chemistry") at a later point in time.



So you think those authors are not actually describing a "material" alchemical process, but an internal spiritual process? Because the principles are pretty much the same...
IMO they are decribing a paramounting universal process. But many authors say there are many different ones. However most likely it is not to be taken literally when they are giving example in the one or the other direction. And I am not talking about recipies, although there are also those that disguise the universal. Even Principe and Newman must admit that there is always something missing. At a certain stage it just doesn't mach anymore with what the alchemists seemed to have observed and described. To give an example:


Indeed, just like the symbol for copper is also the glyph for Venus and, as it happens, copper is the metal that is attributed to that planet.

It's even more complicated: Venus as the morning (and eveningstar) is also a symbol for Lucifer, the fallen angel. It is also a symbol for the materia prima, sometimes called Laton (greek godess Leta and brass, sometimes also called "airain", like Moses' snake in the Old Testament. The french say "La Tonna" which refers to the passages with the oak barell in the Hermetic Cabinet and the oak tree at Flamel's book of Abraham the Jew). In ancient times it was known that stars falling from the sky (meteorites) are often consisting of iron, which together with its correspondance to Mars also has a connection to pain and suffering bringing luciferan aspect. So Venus can have a whole lot of other meanings that can't be contained within the known spagyrical symbol correspondancies. Imo.


That sounds interesting, since I was indeed already wondering if there is a chance that some other text attributed to the author of Hermes Trismegist's True and Natural Path was actually the work of a different author.

Would you share your thoughts on this, please?

The author of the Compass of the Wise was most likely Poqinier von Jolifief (Source: Karl Frick - die Erleuchteten)

Michael Birkholz published books under his pennames "Adamah Booz" and his own name, while ICH -according to his own introductions- wrote his books to thank Birkholz for publishing the Hermetische ABC compilation.


Please explain who exactly you mean by "those guys".
I especially had those authors or texts in mind who were not talking about specific chemical recipies.


Quite true Michael ... but there is possibly more to this story, lets not forget that Alchemy is only one part of what may be called The Great Work.

Hermes Trismegistus (from Ancient Greek: Ἑρμῆς ὁ Τρισμέγιστος, "Hermes the Thrice-Greatest" because he mastered the three parts of The Great Work.

Hermetics gives us the three parts and these parts work hand in hand with each other.

That's rather a more modern definition of the "thrice greatest" imo. I suppose you mean "astrology" and "magic" as the other two parts.

However Marsilio Ficino who reintroduced the western world to Trismegistos' teachings in the 15th century was of an other opinion. He said Hermes did not write much about astrology and magic for good reason (doesn't say which). I assume he considered alchemy to be of a superior science than the other two, who are obviously dealing with the spheres within the realm of saturn, while alchemy leads out there (and beyond the fixed star sky). Again this is not to be taken literally imo.

Back to Ficinos interpretation of the "Tris"megistos:
1. Greatest Philosopher (philosophus)
2. Greatest Priest (sacerdos)
3. Greatest Ruler (rex)

Source: Ficinos Introduction to the Corpus Hermeticum

Hellin Hermetist
02-08-2021, 05:55 PM
Hi Hellin,

I'm having difficulty finding these treatises. Do you know where I can find them, in English (preferably) or in French?

Thank you!

There are no English translations for sure. For Vicot work I think there are no transcriptions either. Only the manuscripts.

So for the Cinq Livres of Vallois you shall find a transcription here:

http://bnam.fr/IMG/pdf/NICOLAS_VALOIS.pdf

For Vicot manuscripts and Le Grand Olympie go to Gallica.bnf and type Vicot Vallois in the search bar. There are four manuscrpits if I remember right, but some of them are only summaries of the others. So focus on the largere manuscripts. Among them there is also the manuscripts of Grosparmy, the third of the Flers triad, which ara for the most part a synopsis of Lulle's Testament and not of great value. All of them are in French and written in Vicot's caligraphic style. But if you speak some French it shall not be that difficult ot study them.

black
02-09-2021, 09:19 AM
I suppose you mean "astrology" and "magic" as the other two parts.

However Marsilio Ficino who reintroduced the western world to Trismegistos' teachings in the 15th century was of an other opinion. He said Hermes did not write much about astrology and magic for good reason (doesn't say which). I assume he considered alchemy to be of a superior science than the other two, who are obviously dealing with the spheres within the realm of saturn, while alchemy leads out there (and beyond the fixed star sky). Again this is not to be taken literally imo.

Yes Florius Astrology and Magic/Theurgy.

My feeling is that Theurgy would be at the top of the list for without it no one would
be able to perform Alchemy ..... Re Divine Guidence.

Theurgy also trancends Time, Space and Dimension.

A definition by Proclus (c. 480): Theurgy is "a power higher than all human wisdom embracing the blessings of divination, the purifying powers of initiation and in a word all the operations of divine possession.

Illen A. Cluf
02-09-2021, 06:21 PM
There are no English translations for sure. For Vicot work I think there are no transcriptions either. Only the manuscripts.

So for the Cinq Livres of Vallois you shall find a transcription here:

http://bnam.fr/IMG/pdf/NICOLAS_VALOIS.pdf

For Vicot manuscripts and Le Grand Olympie go to Gallica.bnf and type Vicot Vallois in the search bar. There are four manuscrpits if I remember right, but some of them are only summaries of the others. So focus on the largere manuscripts. Among them there is also the manuscripts of Grosparmy, the third of the Flers triad, which ara for the most part a synopsis of Lulle's Testament and not of great value. All of them are in French and written in Vicot's caligraphic style. But if you speak some French it shall not be that difficult ot study them.

Thanks Hellin. I had found the Vallois text earlier, but not the Gallica link. This link led me to "Recueil sur l'Alchimie".

Hellin Hermetist
02-11-2021, 04:26 PM
Thanks Hellin. I had found the Vallois text earlier, but not the Gallica link. This link led me to "Recueil sur l'Alchimie".

Yes there are four manuscripts. You will find them here. Vallois Cinq Livres, Vicot's Clef de Secrets, Works of Grosparmy and Grand Olympie. Here you will find them:

https://gallica.bnf.fr/services/engine/search/sru?operation=searchRetrieve&version=1.2&query=%28gallica%20all%20%22vallois%20vicot%22%29&lang=fr&suggest=0

Uncle Scrooge
02-18-2021, 03:34 AM
I read the book cover to cover in one sitting. I waited a long time to get it and I was running out of patience, but it was well worth the wait.

All I can say is, it is the Holy Grail! I can see why Fulcanelli saw value in it.

Much gratitude to Illen A. Cluf and everyone else involved in publishing it, you've made a tremendous contribution!

Illen A. Cluf
02-18-2021, 04:24 AM
I read the book cover to cover in one sitting. I waited a long time to get it and I was running out of patience, but it was well worth the wait.

All I can say is, it is the Holy Grail! I can see why Fulcanelli saw value in it.

Much gratitude to Illen A. Cluf and everyone else involved in publishing it, you've made a tremendous contribution!

Thank you Uncle Scrooge! It took seven years, but it was worth it.

Andro
02-20-2021, 12:45 PM
Ordered from Rubedo. Nothing received yet. No reply to email after 2 days.

z0 K
02-20-2021, 05:03 PM
I received my copy last week. It took over a month to get it and never had any tracking with it. I'm reading it a bit at a time because I'm totally focused on Ripley in the lab now.

Andro
02-20-2021, 05:12 PM
I received my copy last week. It took over a month to get it and never had any tracking with it.
I ordered around two months ago, and nothing yet. Also, no tracking number.

Illen A. Cluf
02-20-2021, 06:05 PM
I ordered around two months ago, and nothing yet. Also, no tracking number.

I can personally ask the Publisher for you if you wish, but I would need to know the name you ordered it under.

Andro
02-20-2021, 06:10 PM
I can personally ask the Publisher for you if you wish, but I would need to know the name you ordered it under.
Thanks, for now I'll wait and see if they reply to my email. If there's no reply by next week, I'll PM you.

Illen A. Cluf
02-20-2021, 06:43 PM
Thanks, for now I'll wait and see if they reply to my email. If there's no reply by next week, I'll PM you.

Did you use ac@rubedo.press ?

Andro
02-20-2021, 06:50 PM
Did you use ac@rubedo.press ?
No, I used their Contact Form. Wasn't aware of this email address.

Illen A. Cluf
02-20-2021, 07:26 PM
No, I used their Contact Form. Wasn't aware of this email address.

Try it - it's the one I use to communicate with him. I don't think he'll mind.

Andro
02-23-2021, 09:29 AM
Try it - it's the one I use to communicate with him. I don't think he'll mind.
He wrote back, said it was sent and might have gotten lost in the mail. He suggested to wait another week and if still nothing, he'll send another copy. Thanks.

Illen A. Cluf
02-23-2021, 04:13 PM
He wrote back, said it was sent and might have gotten lost in the mail. He suggested to wait another week and if still nothing, he'll send another copy. Thanks.

The mail service has been atrocious lately, all over the world. Many of our letters abroad took over a month or two to arrive or be delivered, while some never showed up at all.

For others interested in this book, it's probably better to purchase it directly from Amazon.

Andro
03-10-2021, 05:16 PM
He wrote back, said it was sent and might have gotten lost in the mail. He suggested to wait another week and if still nothing, he'll send another copy. Thanks.
He did send another copy, and it just arrived today. Thanks for the support!

Illen A. Cluf
03-10-2021, 05:21 PM
He did send another copy, and it just arrived today. Thanks for the support!

I'm so relieved to hear that the book finally arrived. I'm very interested in your thoughts after you have a chance to read it.

Andro
03-10-2021, 05:30 PM
I'm so relieved to hear that the book finally arrived. I'm very interested in your thoughts after you have a chance to read it.
Sure :)