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Luxus
02-25-2018, 01:46 AM
So lets say you create the philosophers stone. You consume it and now your lifespan has massively extended to hundreds if not thousands of years...is that a wonderful thing or a nightmare? What if politically the world continues to "develop" down the road it is headed?

Would you end up cutting yourself off from the masses? Would you end up walking the Earth alone as a recluse hermit for a very very long time? Would you come to envy those who die?

When you think about it the life of such a person parallels the story of the vampire blessed in some eyes cursed in others!

Its funny I remember a TV program where they interviewed people who made it to over 100 years of age...all of them said it was too long and that they are eagerly looking forward to death :D

Ghislain
02-25-2018, 04:17 AM
I am sure you would have a choice, there must be a plethora of ways you could peacefully end it all if that was your preference.
But having that choice, you would probably find an equal number of reasons not to do it :)

Mortality is not a problem for all animals on the planet, there are many that are immortal, but even they succumb to untimely ends
due to outside influences. The lobster gets eaten by us for instance. <- not the best example :)

Ghislain

JDP
02-25-2018, 06:12 AM
So lets say you create the philosophers stone. You consume it and now your lifespan has massively extended to hundreds if not thousands of years...is that a wonderful thing or a nightmare? What if politically the world continues to "develop" down the road it is headed?

Would you end up cutting yourself off from the masses? Would you end up walking the Earth alone as a recluse hermit for a very very long time? Would you come to envy those who die?

When you think about it the life of such a person parallels the story of the vampire blessed in some eyes cursed in others!

Its funny I remember a TV program where they interviewed people who made it to over 100 years of age...all of them said it was too long and that they are eagerly looking forward to death :D


I don't buy that "I don't want to live forever, please someone shoot me!" thingy. Sounds like something out of a sci-fi movie (like Zardoz), which is fine and entertaining in fiction stories, but hardly reflects reality and how sane, logical & rational people really feel. Anyone who has lived that long and wants to die is most likely because their health is not very good, so to keep on living for much longer in such conditions would indeed become bothersome. But if you could live to be 100 or much beyond that and still retain great health and vigor, I don't think I would see anyone complaining about it! In fact, they would love to keep it going for as long as possible. Nobody in his right mind wants to take a gamble at dying. If there is such a thing as an "afterlife", then that's all fine and dandy, but what if there isn't? You want your brain, your memories, your consciousness, the very essence of who you are, to become nothing but food for the worms? Ghastly end, when you think about it. But we all "do it" because so far there has been no other choice. But cryonics might change that.

http://www.rationalargumentator.com/index/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ELFC_Death_is_Wrong-1024x713.jpg

Luxus
02-25-2018, 12:39 PM
Ageing Aubrey de Grey defines as the accumulation of error. This error manifests in two main ways:

1 The build-up of junk in the biological system which eventually results in error and a system component failing e.g. calcification or protein cross-linking.

2 The accumulation of DNA damage which results in defective cellular replication thus eventual malfunction.


Free radicals released by the mitochondria during energy conversion is a major cause of DNA damage.

We can deal with the cross-linking by taking L-Carnosine
We can deal with calcification by taking vitamin K
We can deal with inter mitochondrial free radicals by taking Q10 and N acetyl cysteine or if your more adventurous carbon 60 dissolved in olive oil.

Carbon 60 dissolved in olive oil has extended the lifespan of rats by 50% which of all the substances tested on rats thus far has had the greatest efficiency.

Ghislain
02-25-2018, 12:54 PM
I agree with JDP here. I think this community is constructed of people of all different ages, is there anyone here
who, given the choice, would choose death over life?

If you have emotional or physical problems that you are having difficulties dealing with then you may see death as
a sort of escape, but I'm sure anyone of sound mind and body would not choose to die, irrespective of age.

For as long as I can remember I have enjoyed watching films, but I am always aware that the enjoyment is temporary
and in a short time, perhaps an hour and a half to two hours the film will be over. I see life pretty much the same, but
I'm still enjoying it while it lasts ;)

On a slightly different note, communities used to look to their elders with respect, todays younger generation look at
their elders as possible dementia cases. I guess, if you were able to live longer, losing those close to you, you may have
a problem building social relationships, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it; give me the pill!!! ;)

Ghislain

Luxus
02-25-2018, 01:23 PM
On a slightly different note, communities used to look to their elders with respect, todays younger generation look at
their elders as possible dementia cases. I guess, if you were able to live longer, losing those close to you, you may have
a problem building social relationships, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it; give me the pill!!! ;)

Ghislain

Another fun thing to think about is how would you avoid attention, do you not think your close family, friends and neighbours would get suspicious. How long would it be before you attract the attention of the media or government. How do you deal with going to the airport and having your passport checked and explaining that yes you really are 200 years old :)

How long before someone wants to kill you for your pill of immortality :eek:

Ghislain
02-25-2018, 01:29 PM
There are two scenarios here Luxus. One is that only you have this pill, the other is that it is readily available to all.
I think your scenario fits with the former and in this case you would have a lot of problems, but along with that you
would have plenty of time to find solutions ;)

Ghislain

Andro
02-25-2018, 01:49 PM
We can deal with the cross-linking by taking L-Carnosine
We can deal with calcification by taking vitamin K
We can deal with inter mitochondrial free radicals by taking Q10 and N acetyl cysteine or if your more adventurous carbon 60 dissolved in olive oil.

Are you taking those, Luxus?

Luxus
02-25-2018, 02:20 PM
Are you taking those, Luxus?

I have taken all of those apart from the C60, but I have taken various types of herbs too.

Awani
02-25-2018, 03:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bOKsOveYD0

:p

Kiorionis
02-25-2018, 03:43 PM
I think you all should watch more criminal-mastermind shows :p

Money is a big influence on people. If you have the elixir of life, you’re also probably smart enough to have a stone which transmutes lead into gold. And I think it’s only a few thousand grand to buy a new life, complete with documentation. Those same people producing the documentation probably aren’t opposed to taking gold and silver as payment.

The hardest part of this strategy, I believe, is coming up with a new name haha.

Luxus
02-25-2018, 05:04 PM
Awani, do you remember...



...what life was like before birth?

Luxus
02-25-2018, 05:06 PM
I think you all should watch more criminal-mastermind shows :p

Money is a big influence on people. If you have the elixir of life, you’re also probably smart enough to have a stone which transmutes lead into gold. And I think it’s only a few thousand grand to buy a new life, complete with documentation. Those same people producing the documentation probably aren’t opposed to taking gold and silver as payment.

The hardest part of this strategy, I believe, is coming up with a new name haha.

True but the thing about crooks is that you can never trust a crook because by their very nature they are dishonest. How much would you trust walking into a airport with your fake passport haha

Kiorionis
02-25-2018, 05:29 PM
That’s the thing though, you don’t buy a fake passport. You buy a real one ;)

That’s what they do in the movies anyways

Awani
02-25-2018, 05:37 PM
...what life was like before birth?

I have had visonary experience of my first life (not this one), but if you want emperical factual memories I cannot remember anything before the age of 5 years or so.

:p

Amon
02-25-2018, 06:47 PM
I can see why someone would consider it unbearable after a certain point. But i don't. I have a rather busy schedule planned out, given that i will succeed at making the elixir.

But as some before me already stated, the elixir doesn't make you immortal, it simply increases your longevity (or so it is said to, opinions are divided).

JDP
02-25-2018, 08:14 PM
Ok so would you say all the successful alchemists before us are heartless bastards for not openly detailing the production of the elixir to the masses ?

Come to think of it how would one cope with burying everyone they have ever loved? Would you reach a point where you would never allow yourself to love anyone ever again?

Hmm, that is interesting, Vampires in the story's are sometimes said not to have a beating heart and to be incapable of love....ultimately then taking the elixir turns you into a vampire :eek:

No, there is a fundamental difference between the immortality of vampires and other kinds: vampires NEED to feed on the life of other people, they are parasites. That's the reason they are believed to be "cursed". It's not the immortality per se that makes them so. For example, no one saw the legendary Chinese "immortals" as "cursed". They did not feed on other people's lives to attain that status. The Chinese alchemists were obsessed with the subject of concocting an "elixir" that would allow them to become one of these "immortals", or at least come close to it by extending their lives as long as possible.

JDP
02-25-2018, 08:23 PM
Another fun thing to think about is how would you avoid attention, do you not think your close family, friends and neighbours would get suspicious. How long would it be before you attract the attention of the media or government. How do you deal with going to the airport and having your passport checked and explaining that yes you really are 200 years old :)

How long before someone wants to kill you for your pill of immortality :eek:

Besides the already recommended Highlander film, also watch the second story of the horror anthology movie, From a Whisper to a Scream. Both movies show two interesting and distinct approaches at how to deal with the subject of immortality or unusual longevity that is not shared with the bulk of mankind:

1- Keep on faking your death and on getting new identities every so many decades as you deem cautious to do so before someone starts suspecting something (this is the "Highlander" approach)

2- Isolate yourself from the bulk of society and live on your own in a remote place, pretty much like a hermit, with as little contact as possible with those who do not know your secret (this is the "From a Whisper to a Scream" approach)

elixirmixer
02-25-2018, 09:07 PM
Id probably run the number 1 senario for a while until id buried all my loved ones. Then i would live remotely, while visiting town every now and again to heal all the kids with cancer and disappear again without a trace or any goodbyes. Id go from town to town. You wouldnt want to get rushed by sick people by coming back to a town you performed miracles in. Remember Jesus and the diciples ditching the masses and going across the sea? Jesus had a plan too ;)

elixirmixer
02-25-2018, 09:14 PM
Unfortunatly, the Stone itself i believe has a 120 year limit. Full immortality requires unlocking shit at higher spiritual levels and opening the floodgates of vitality into the body. I dont think that the Stone; as powerful as it may-be; is going to get you laid by 17yr olds when your 569. Sorry.

elixirmixer
02-25-2018, 09:16 PM
Plus; i dont think it makes you beautiful either so if your ugly then your still going to be ugly, stone or no stone lol

elixirmixer
02-25-2018, 10:04 PM
It says in the book of mormon that Jesus made three of his original deciples immortal on THIS Earth. And also three of his 12 american deciples (we are talking pre-aztec here)

So according to scripture; there are at least 6 blokes walking around this earth in perfected bodies; able to hide their appearance, and show themselves to any worthy people whenever they wish "for the good of humanity".

Luxus
02-25-2018, 10:05 PM
Plus; i dont think it makes you beautiful either so if your ugly then your still going to be ugly, stone or no stone lol

Just as well I'm a 6ft6 hansom devil then ;)

Kibric
02-25-2018, 10:09 PM
Just as well I'm a 6ft6 hansom devil then
You are a chiselled Greek god

elixirmixer
02-25-2018, 10:12 PM
You are a chiselled Greek god

Thats what she said.

Luxus
02-25-2018, 10:28 PM
To the Taoist Alchemists creating the pill of immortality was the first step which culminated in de-materialising your body and flying to the purple palace under the pole-star to hangout with the other immortals in a shambala like realm. So all the alchemists who achieve physical immortality on this Earth eventually pack bags and head off.

In Tibet they call this kind of de-materialisation rainbow body. The body is consumed (like the phoenix) and sometimes only the feet are left. Kinda reminds me of what we call spontaneous human combustion.

Kiorionis
02-25-2018, 11:41 PM
To the Taoist Alchemists creating the pill of immortality was the first step which culminated in de-materialising your body and flying to the purple palace under the pole-star to hangout with the other immortals in a shambala like realm. So all the alchemists who achieve physical immortality on this Earth eventually pack bags and head off.

Technically, the first step for the Taoist alchemists was to become a “Man Immortal amongst Men.” This achievement is a prerequisite for the alchemical work, and has to do more with yoga and martial arts, music, herbalism and philosophy than anything alchemical. It doesn’t give you immortality, but it does give you a fully developed and “charged” physical body in order to begin developing the “Immortal Fetus” which only a “Man Immortal Amongst Men” is capable of instructing and developing.

Luxus
02-26-2018, 01:20 PM
Technically, the first step for the Taoist alchemists was to become a “Man Immortal amongst Men.” This achievement is a prerequisite for the alchemical work, and has to do more with yoga and martial arts, music, herbalism and philosophy than anything alchemical. It doesn’t give you immortality, but it does give you a fully developed and “charged” physical body in order to begin developing the “Immortal Fetus” which only a “Man Immortal Amongst Men” is capable of instructing and developing.
That would be the western equivalent of the seven liberal arts, yes nobody can succeed in this art without first having a grounding in natural philosophy even western alchemists state this. In addition to this nobody succeeds who has not been first chosen by God.

Taoist alchemists must also destroy the etheric demon worms within their body by abstaining from meat and the five grains. Before taking the pill of immortality one must fast and take nothing but water until the intestine/stomach is completely empty. The smell of food digesting in the stomach or faeces sitting in the bowls is a smell repugnant to the immortals. One must bathe on the day the pill is to be taken and then facing the Sun take the pill and be transported to the realm of the immortals. Western alchemists rarely talk about diet or fasting though I feel they intuitively knew what to do.

When you speak of the immortal fetus I think you are talking about the later neidan tradition. The older waidan tradition of producing the pill of immortality is closer to what westerners understand as alchemy.

Kiorionis
02-26-2018, 02:24 PM
When you speak of the immortal fetus I think you are talking about the later neidan tradition. The older waidan tradition of producing the pill of immortality is closer to what westerners understand as alchemy.

Yes, this is what I was talking about, and I agree.

From what I’ve been researching, the Immortal Fetus is also called “Spirit Immortal”
And the actual physical immortality is the “Earth Immortal”.

The two can be practiced separately and achieved fully, but both are required to attain Celestial or Heavenly Immortality.

Luxus
02-26-2018, 03:50 PM
The immortal fetus is one of a few veritys of Chinese yoga. I think it actually has Buddhist roots rather then Taoist roots. The process is detailed in the Hui-ming ching. First one visualises a fetus being nourished in the lower abdomen (dantian) where it is nourished by the circulation of breath (Qi). Next this fetus moves up to the heart or middle dantian as it develops. Further to this it exits the top of the head and is attached to the physical body of the adept by an etheric umbilical cord. Further to this it goes on short journeys away from the physical body (astral projection) still attached by this ethric cord. Finally the etheric cord is broken an the fully formed immortal golden body travels to the celestial abode of the immortals.

As far as I understand it the Taoist forms of yoga are trying to create the jindan in the lower abdomen by refining jing however they consider it to be a subtle chemical process rather then the formation of a living entity of human form. In the Taoist version the adept himself is transformed by the circulation of the jindan and he attains the golden immortal body by transmuting his physical body via the jindan.

The problem I have with the immortal fetus technique is that it is possible to self hypnotise oneself to visualise these things with repetitive visualisation. What would happen for example if one instead of visualising a human fetus visualised a bird or a dragon instead?

Kiorionis
02-26-2018, 05:12 PM
I just reread parts of my copy of the Hui-Ming Ching (translated by Eva Wong), and I see you’re correct that this has some Buddhist ties, but also talks about the Tao. Maybe it’s a mix...

Personally, I think you’re misinterpreting the concept of the “Fetus”

Luxus
02-26-2018, 07:14 PM
I just reread parts of my copy of the Hui-Ming Ching (translated by Eva Wong), and I see you’re correct that this has some Buddhist ties, but also talks about the Tao. Maybe it’s a mix...

Personally, I think you’re misinterpreting the concept of the “Fetus”

Yes chan/Zen Buddhism has concepts within it almost identical to the Dao as I understand it.

Awani
05-20-2018, 01:38 PM
Man should be afraid of death, because it will also be the real death of his real ego forever. I think it would be wrong to achieve such death while still alive by following destructive teachings of blind "enlightened" guides. When man awakens from animalistic sleep, the first thing he realizes is that death IS real and absolute and something must be done about it.

I don't agree with this at all.

Death is an embrace. Nothing to fear. If a teaching works, how can it be destructive? You can teach me how to light a fire... and then I can use your teaching and light a fire in my bed right before going to sleep... the destructive tendencies does not stem from the "blind" teacher per se, but rather from the "deaf" student.

:p

Warmheart
05-20-2018, 05:06 PM
I don't agree with this at all.

Death is an embrace. Nothing to fear. If a teaching works, how can it be destructive? You can teach me how to light a fire... and then I can use your teaching and light a fire in my bed right before going to sleep... the destructive tendencies does not stem from the "blind" teacher per se, but rather from the "deaf" student.

:p
It might be possible to throw out the child with the bath :) While there is false ego, which really stand on the way, it is possible to get rid of your real Self while fighting with false ego.

What concerns death, it was depicted by old nations as huge horrific crocodile. In many old books, most of which aren't translated to European languages, it is clearly said: Man, use this unique opportunity in this life, save yourself, because death is real and you will disappear forever if you don't use the chances.

Western religions made up myths about inherent immortality of the soul to comfort those who is afraid of mortality of the body - that's the main point of confusion for many people. Soul isn't inherently immortal. As above, so and below, when man dies, his soul will also quickly start decaying in order to give life to other mortal beings. And so that soul will die and will be gone forever, only its reflection will stay in the subtle Earth sphere.

That's my view on it, I don't pretend to be speaking ultimate truths. Just personally I'd rather do anything I can to avoid putrefaction of the soul (and, if possible - physical body too) than rely on words of people that immortality is given as granted or that there is nothing scary about death (I had death experiences, it is horrible, appreciate the life - it is PRICELESS). Alchemy allows to make Ultimate Medicine - against death. I am not sure why people overlook that and put all their attention into gold making, as if they can take the gold beyond the grave :p

Andro
05-20-2018, 05:19 PM
Soul isn't inherently immortal. As above, so and below, when man dies, his soul will also quickly start decaying in order to give life to other mortal beings. And so that soul will die and will be gone forever

Quoth Cyliani:


"Only man's form perishes. The spirit, for which the soul serves as a tie or an envelope, separates itself and man's form, deprived of this vital celestial spirit, is delivered to the reaction of its constituent principles. Spirit and soul live then spiritually in seeking the centers that are suitable to them and, after the lapse of a certain time, man or the being or the spirit or the spiritual life which goes on always perfecting itself, separates itself from his soul or from his glorious envelope to enter into its universality. This means that man dies twice. That is to say, twice changes his form. But man or the spirit lives eternally."

Awani
05-20-2018, 05:34 PM
Western religions made up myths about inherent immortality of the soul to comfort those who is afraid of mortality of the body - that's the main point of confusion for many people.

Well the best source for me is the people with the most experience i.e. the indigenous... since they have mostly kept their traditions for longer than the West has even existed... and the common feature in indigneous mythology is best said by quoting the Aboriginal people of Australia:

“We are all visitors to this time, this place.
We are just passing through.
Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love…
and then we return home.”


What concerns death, it was depicted by old nations as huge horrific crocodile...

Sounds like crocodile tears to me.


Just personally I'd rather do anything I can to avoid putrefaction of the soul (and, if possible - physical body too)...

If you don't surrender yourself to the concept of death, then you are going to have a very shitty ride... you will face it no matter what you do... that is a promise, the only certain thing I can really say. You will die. ;)

Either you go like this...

https://preview.ibb.co/eS6hao/Are_You_Making_Tantrums_Worse_3_Mistakes_To_Avoid. jpg

Or like this...

https://image.ibb.co/cheFT8/942d6d85629b90dee73d87599571cf3e.jpg

:p

Awani
05-20-2018, 05:50 PM
...than rely on words of people that immortality is given as granted or that there is nothing scary about death (I had death experiences, it is horrible, appreciate the life - it is PRICELESS). Alchemy allows to make Ultimate Medicine - against death.

I have had death experiences as well... personal and people around me... some that died for "real"... and I agree that life is priceless... but you know what... Bob Dylan made great music and great art BUT WHY WILL HE NOT FUCKING STOP TOURING AND MAKING MUSIC... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... GIVE IT UP!!!

Are you the type of house guest that does not know when to leave? :)

:p

Andro
05-20-2018, 07:25 PM
Years before he died, Tom Petty sang this simple message: "I guess I'll know when I get there. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5BJXwNeKsQ&feature=youtu.be&t=145)"

Or not...

To me, this pretty much sums it up.

Meanwhile, we shall live (and die?) according to our own convictions. Hopefully not too rigidly so.

Awani
05-20-2018, 08:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otAJa3jui8

:p

elixirmixer
05-20-2018, 10:17 PM
I figure that the basic idea here is vibration.

For instance, you need a certain amount of energy, a certain vibration, before you can seperate the astral matrix from the physical body.

Once there, then again, depending on your vibration, you can travel to different spheres of intelligence (you travel to the place that corresponds to your energy)

I believe the whole, "Good people go to Heaven, bad people go to hell" Argument is talking specifically about the vibration of the individual and what area of the astral world it corresponds with.

For instance, lets say you spend your days chronically masterbating, you age quickly and reach the end of your life having achieved little else for anyone but yourself and your balls are bone dry....

What type of energy does the soul then have? After you die, you enter the Astral realm. If you enter the Astral realm, then some stuff is going to happen... like....

You could get scared! Now... remember this is not an adept. This is a balls dry atheist loser. He has just entered the Spirit World. He is going to be scared, with low energy.

His fear will attract the Sharks of the astral realm; which will gladdly escort him to places of even more fear; which correspond perfectly with the low energy, loser soul we are dealing with.

NOW... Lets say we grab Awani and slit his throat.

Awani is not going to face death with nearly the amount of fear and anxiety that our dry balled friend had a moment ago.

He is going to feel more familiar with the process of separating from his body; because he took the time and effort during his waking life to experience and learn about it.

1 point up on Awani; no, to minimum Shark concerns.

Secondly; Awani's soul is going to be of a higher vibration because of his humanitarian love and spiritual practises. So when Awani dies; his soul will naturally gravetate to a place of a higher vibration in the astral realm.

This is why i believe that Death is somethi g that you are suppose to realize is not a great thing; and prepare for it, in which case, if prepared for well; could be the ultimate orgasmic release into infinity.

I vote Yes for Death Preparation.

Kibric
05-20-2018, 11:20 PM
I keep getting a continuous decline in faith in humanity, because all its current history is full of deception and wars.
Stop watching the mainstream news. The world is full of brilliant loving moral people unfortunately they have no power and you wont hear about them.:(


When man awakens from animalistic sleep, the first thing he realizes is that death IS real and absolute and something must be done about it.
Death is unnatural. Ageing is a disease. An unpopular view.
Its mankind's destiny to realise this and its inevitable as a species, we're gonna have to do it some time, assuming we are all still here.

Warmheart
05-21-2018, 05:23 PM
Death is unnatural. Ageing is a disease. An unpopular view.
Its mankind's destiny to realise this and its inevitable as a species, we're gonna have to do it some time, assuming we are all still here.
Indeed, I totally agree with you on these points.

I didn't mean to derail this thread. I simply think that most of modern ways of enlightenment (what an overused word) is actually a spiritual suicide. I also think that embracing the death is like embracing some lethal sickness and adoring it instead of actually seeking the ways to cure it.

Awani
05-21-2018, 05:37 PM
I guess it comes down to what outlook one has. When my car breaks down I simply by a new one. The old car is dead, but my new one is alive. And guess what... I am still driving. That is what death is to me... so any concept of trying to make my old shitty car last longer sounds ridiculous... why waste that energy when a brand new porsche is waiting for me.

:p

Warmheart
05-22-2018, 01:49 PM
I guess it comes down to what outlook one has. When my car breaks down I simply by a new one. The old car is dead, but my new one is alive. And guess what... I am still driving. That is what death is to me... so any concept of trying to make my old shitty car last longer sounds ridiculous... why waste that energy when a brand new porsche is waiting for me.

:p
Then... what about memories of old car or... memories of previous life?

Only relatively few people have authentic memories of past lives, and those are usually those who had violent death or/and could probably be ascribed to specific secondary emanations of Genius of Earth.

And even if you manage to remember the past life, in next life you won't remember neither this nor past life.

So each time you begin anew, and most likely (because of big disproportional difference of poor vs rich) you will be poor, trading whole your life for some promises of good pension or to save for house when you are old, so you die never even getting to live life in your own house. Or just spend whole life in never fulfilling dreams about that. And spend many lives like that - always starting from scratch. Constantly losing all you had.

If to go with your example and with western theory on reincarnations and add some more details. Imagine you have some car and you need to get on it from Spain to France. On your way there you get some incident which causes you to have amnesia and you with new car is back at Spain. You plan to get to some other country (probably even same France, but you are not sure, you don't remember where and why you need to drive), but the same incident repeats, you have new amnesia, new car and you are back in Spain. So you get new car each time, but no memory and all your goals are far beyond reach (or, even if you reach them, you get to enjoy their fruits only extremely short amount of time). And all of that is because of the repeating incident (correlating with death).

I am not sure about you, but I personally find such situation with car being far beyond totally hopeless :p

Awani
05-22-2018, 03:58 PM
Then... what about memories of old car or... memories of previous life?

I try to remain in the present.


If to go with your example and with western theory on reincarnations...

I have not claimed that reincarnation is what happens... all I basically said is that death is birth.


...you will be poor... so you die never even getting to live life in your own house...

Good. I remember one time in an ayahuasca ceremony I entered the life of someone starving to death in Africa. It was a horrible experience. The following day my sense of compassion and grace and gratitude was increased tenfold. From the omnipotent perspective of infinite consciousness a human being can only truly be poor in spirit, love, compassion, passion... IMO.

Regarding reincarnation: yes it is "true" that you might not recall your past lives in your current body... but between bodies you do remember... and I have strong personal evidence that we might actually choose what life we will have. Why are we not all rich and famous Hollywood celebrites then? Because our eternal higher spirit does not place value on materialism, but on experience.

On the flip side: if everything I say is 100 % true then if someone does not accept eternal and infinite consciousness then such individuals might pray that "if only I could die for real". He he he.

:p

Awani
05-22-2018, 04:03 PM
Death is unnatural. Ageing is a disease.

That is correct.

However physical human body is only a temporary mode of transportation or experience pod. If I play Super Mario Bros., and happen to die I turn off the console, and go make a sandwich. From the perspective of Mario I am an immortal God. And from the perspective of the higher self, or the Divine Mystery, I am Mario.

And in the end Mario, I, you and the Divine Mystery are one and the same... a thought adrift in an infintie ocean of constant creation and consciousness.


In the beginning there was nothing. All was darkness. There was nothing at all. Only the mother. She was Aluna. She was pure thought. Without form. She began to think. The mother conceived the world in the darkness. She conceived us as ideas. As we think out a house before we begin to make it real. She spun the thread. Spinning us all in the story. Creating us in thought. And then came the light. And the world was real. - Kogi people creation story

IMO.

:p

Kibric
05-22-2018, 04:32 PM
even if you manage to remember the past life, in next life you won't remember neither this nor past life.
This is really the crux of spiritual immortality. The preservation of your current consciousness. The body being an illusion and the desire to keep it
comes from its attachment to your consciousness. We do not want reincarnation we're not supposed to endlessly forget,
Lao Tzu from the below quote taught how your consciousness could pick up other bodies. Multiple bodies.
The focus on physical immortality is largely to convert this body that is an illusion as a means of becoming deathless.
If the consciousness can preserve itself it can pick up another body or bodies, not only that but also use water fire air earth as a body
it is immortal. The end stages in practises based on physical immortality are the same. An immortal consciousness.

However physical human body is only a temporary mode of transportation or experience pod
My favourite quote from Lao Tzu that encompasses your view.

" All that has the breath of life, all that possesses bodily
form, is mere Illusion. The point at which
creation begins, the change effected by the Dual
Principles — these are called respectively Life
and Death. That which underlies the manifold
workings of Destiny is called Evolution ; that
which produces and transforms bodily substance
is called Illusion. The Creator's ingenuity is
mysterious, His operations secret and profound.
In truth, He is inexhaustible and eternal.

The " Creator," of course, is Tao ; but how widely the
conception of Tao differs from that of a personal God may
be seen from the commentator's note : " How should the
Creator possess a conscious mind ? It is His spontaneity
that constitutes the mystery. Essential matter unites with
extensive energy to become a bodily substance, which follows
the line of evolution and passes away, but does not, on that
account, relapse into nothingness."

The ingenuity of that which causes material
form is patent to the eye, and its workings are
shallow. Therefore it arises anon, and anon it
is destroyed.' Only one who knows that Life
is really Illusion, and that Death is really
Evolution, can begin to learn magic from me.
You and I are both illusions. How are we,
then, to make a study of the subject ? "

" If a person wishes to make a study of illusion, in spite of
the fact that his own body is an illusion, we are reduced to
the absurdity of an illusion studying an illusion."
https://archive.org/stream/taoistteachingsf00liezrich/taoistteachingsf00liezrich_djvu.txt

Awani
05-22-2018, 10:33 PM
If a person wishes to make a study of illusion, in spite of
the fact that his own body is an illusion, we are reduced to
the absurdity of an illusion studying an illusion.

Good quote.

:p

pierre
05-22-2018, 11:25 PM
Give me the eternal life, and I will know that to do with the treacherous death... :)

Warmheart
05-23-2018, 06:55 PM
My favourite quote from Lao Tzu that encompasses your view.
Interesting quote, though it is strange to see it coming from you as we less or more share some general ideas about immortality. So there is an old Eastern legend. I am telling it from memory, so might miss some details.

Once, Shiva was telling Parvati exactly the same words, that matter is illusion, world is illusion, everything is illusion. Parvati (who is, basically in crude words, Nature herself) became upset and told Shiva: "So if everything about me is illusion, you can live without me, I will see how long you will last".

And so Parvati left the world and everything started to wither and die, there was no food and there was hunger all around. Wise Men started to call Parvati to come back as nothing can live without her. And so Parvati heard their callings, and at the edge of the world appeared some tavern, whose mistress was Annapurna (name means full of food).

The world being illusion is an extremely modern view, which appeared only around 2 thousands years ago if not less. And it got huge popularity mostly amidst western people. And it is also western people who invented "Maya = illusion" in its crudest sense.

Regarding reincarnation: yes it is "true" that you might not recall your past lives in your current body... but between bodies you do remember... and I have strong personal evidence that we might actually choose what life we will have. Why are we not all rich and famous Hollywood celebrites then? Because our eternal higher spirit does not place value on materialism, but on experience.
Then why would someone choose a life in the desert without water and roof over the head, constantly suffering from thirst and creepy insectoids? Why would someone choose a life as a son of beggar, living on street, needed not by anyone and begging to survive? When you see some 10-years old kid and you see he is so hungry and can't stand on his legs because they turned into bones with some skin over them? How can someone enjoy it as experience? I think there is a big flaw in theory about "people can choose their future life". How do those people fit this theory? (I'd put a smile, but it isn't something to smile about)

Andro
05-23-2018, 07:37 PM
Then why would someone choose a life in the desert without water and roof over the head, constantly suffering from thirst and creepy insectoids? Why would someone choose a life as a son of beggar, living on street, needed not by anyone and begging to survive? When you see some 10-years old kid and you see he is so hungry and can't stand on his legs because they turned into bones with some skin over them? How can someone enjoy it as experience? I think there is a big flaw in theory about "people can choose their future life". How do those people fit this theory?

One reply comes to mind: ADDICTION.

Addiction to the thrills offered by the ENTIRE spectrum of the sensory experience.

Where's my next fix ? ! ?

:rolleyes:

Awani
05-23-2018, 09:59 PM
The world being illusion is an extremely modern view, which appeared only around 2 thousands years ago if not less. And it got huge popularity mostly amidst western people. And it is also western people who invented "Maya = illusion" in its crudest sense.

Illusion is not a modern view. Only the word.


Then why would someone choose a life in the desert without water and roof over the head, constantly suffering from thirst and creepy insectoids? Why would someone choose a life as a son of beggar, living on street, needed not by anyone and begging to survive? When you see some 10-years old kid and you see he is so hungry and can't stand on his legs because they turned into bones with some skin over them? How can someone enjoy it as experience? I think there is a big flaw in theory about "people can choose their future life". How do those people fit this theory? (I'd put a smile, but it isn't something to smile about)

Why would someone watch a horror film? Why would someone listen to a sad song?

Same thing from the "higher spirit" perspective.

However that does not imply, in this current physical base reality that we should look at those that suffer as deserving because they chose those things... so how can there be such a contradictory view?

Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion. ;)

:p

Loki Morningstar
06-03-2018, 01:33 PM
To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of dispriz'd love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action.

- W. Shakespear, Hamlet.

Awani
06-03-2018, 08:38 PM
If that quote (which I know by heart) is a comment on this thread, then I am not sure in what way?

Hamlet bitching about life not being fair and suicide?

Death is not for cowards. Nor whiny bitches. LOL.

https://i.imgur.com/OT2hx62.jpg

:p

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 08:01 AM
It is a comment on this thread. I'll explain my reasoning. Shakespeare talks about death, he talks about life, and also immortality.


What if politically the world continues to "develop" down the road it is headed?

To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them.

He talks about fighting the status quo. "If the world continues to develop down the road it is headed", there is more than the dichotomy of life as it is, or death. The world is not as one wishes? One can do something about it, or not. With just one lifetime, one can make amazing changes.


Would you come to envy those who die?

If you have emotional or physical problems that you are having difficulties dealing with then you may see death as a sort of escape.

To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd.

Shakespeare then has his character feel oppressed by the idea of continuing to take arms, and weighs the other option. I think this is quite relatable, surely all people have thought this way at some point. If they haven’t, even if just in passing, I think they are less the richer for it.


If there is such a thing as an "afterlife", then that's all fine and dandy, but what if there isn’t?

To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream; ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause;

Is death is truly an end? No evidence either way, no matter how hard one believes. One may want ‘dreams’ after death, one may hope there is not. This is the point, would one want an eternity of taking up arms? An eternity of living? Would one like to eventually sleep the deep sleep, and is this even possible?


there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of dispriz'd love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,

The idea of death inspires one to list one's issues, a positive thing as in seeing the problems, there is a chance to find solutions. One may see the paradox of positive, and negative, things such as love. Love: the cause and the solution to all of life problems. Does the bitter makes the rest sweeter?


But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,

Speaks for itself. Again, who knows before life or after death? I haven’t heard/seen good evidence.


And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action.

Fear of death/unknown, and lust for the unknown, creates drive in equal measures. Death makes life worth living. It causes currents of thought to turn awry and loose the name of action. It invades our thoughts, gives us a jolt, forces us to think of the infinite. Gives reason to act, helps one regroup in times of trouble, and reminds us that nothing really means anything, so relax and enjoy the ride. The snake forever eats its tail, or perhaps not, its mouth and tail remains useful.

IMHO it concisely sums the mental paths of life, death, and immortality; more conciseness may effect it's beauty. Minimum it is a very good start.

Plus, I enjoy it and think its worth sharing Shakespeare any chance one gets. :)

Awani
06-04-2018, 08:14 AM
You should read (although can be hard to get a copy) Colin Wilson's The Philosophers Stone. It is a work of fiction... I won't say more about it. Just read it.

------------------------------

Since we will die whatever we do I don't see it as an issue. That is why I am never home sick. If I go to Africa for a month I know I am going home again at a certain date... so why be home sick? There is no reason. Time will resolve it.

One could argue, if there is something hereafter, that we might feel home sick for Earth life... if that is the case we might reincarnate, and if that is not the case, then I think we just need to look at the NDE reports. People usually feel liberated and free... they don't miss Earth life anymore than you miss a dream.

Although I did fall in love in a dream once, and I carried that ache for months (almost years to some degree). It was very intense. Dorinda was her name.

My official position is that death is not an end, and that is why immortality on Earth is a dumb move. And even if death is the end, immortality simply sounds like greed... people will still want babies... what happens if no one dies? Also we need "new" people... those that have lived for 100 years need to fucking go... leave some room for the next wave.

:p

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 08:14 AM
I suppose what I am trying to say; in case of TLDR. Even if death is an illusion, it is a useful concept, worth keeping in ones head even if just for utility.
An infinity mirror through which to watch the beautiful chaos/order of the eternal nothingness/everythingness, death/life, and everything in-between.

A song I love to sum it up. There's beauty in the darkness.
https://youtu.be/4zLfCnGVeL4

A parody of the above just for funnies. CHOAS MAGICKS! ;0)P
https://youtu.be/cruRyoo2xiE

Awani
06-04-2018, 08:21 AM
I suppose what I am trying to say; in case of TLDR.

I did, that is why I said:

You should read (although can be hard to get a copy) Colin Wilson's The Philosophers Stone. It is a work of fiction... = it deals a lot with Shakespeare... ;)


A song I love to sum it up.

That song is good... this one same kind of vibe and message IMO...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMTEtDBHGY4

:p

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 08:56 AM
You should read (although can be hard to get a copy) Colin Wilson's The Philosophers Stone. It is a work of fiction... I won't say more about it. Just read it.

Will do. :)


Since we will die whatever we do I don't see it as an issue. That is why I am never home sick. If I go to Africa for a month I know I am going home again at a certain date... so why be home sick? There is no reason. Time will resolve it.

That seems a very stoic belief, I like to think this way myself. Doesn't stop me pondering the void.

When you say home in regards to death. How do you mean?


One could argue, if there is something hereafter, that we might feel home sick for Earth life... if that is the case we might reincarnate, and if that is not the case, then I think we just need to look at the NDE reports. People usually feel liberated and free... they don't miss Earth life anymore than you miss a dream.

I could agree with this as a thought experiment, and agree with your logic.


Although I did fall in love in a dream once, and I carried that ache for months (almost years to some degree). It was very intense. Dorinda was her name.

Would be interested to hear the full story of this at some point. How did that effect you in your every day life?


My official position is that death is not an end, and that is why immortality on Earth is a dumb move. And even if death is the end, immortality simply sounds like greed... people will still want babies... what happens if no one dies? Also we need "new" people... those that have lived for 100 years need to fucking go... leave some room for the next wave.

A fair balanced opinion. What is your reasoning for death not being an end? I agree if there is an afterlife it may be dumb move, although not so much if there isn't, or if one can decide when to pass away. I agree that while we are all stuck on this planet it could be seen as greedy though.

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 09:00 AM
Sorry TLDR was not for anyone specific, just realised it was a bit of an essay lol. I hadn't seen your reply at that point.

Beautiful song. I can see the similarity, its like a love song to the void. <3 :)

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 09:22 AM
I suppose what I am asking is:

In immortality; a continuous stream of consciousness; one might collect so much data that life looses meaning.

At this point would one wish to exit the game? And what if at this point one couldn't?

What if the only way is to enter the game again, delete ones past memory, therefore one's self; death.

Would one choose to forget? Would one choose to be mortal? And if so, why choose immortality?

Awani
06-04-2018, 10:03 AM
That seems a very stoic belief, I like to think this way myself. Doesn't stop me pondering the void. When you say home in regards to death. How do you mean?

I am involved with the Mystery [the Void] on a daily basis, although I no longer try to understand... it's more of forming a partnership or an embrace. As for death being home, well it's like playing a video game. Home is the home I have my computer in... the game itself is not my home. To simplify.


Would be interested to hear the full story of this at some point. How did that effect you in your every day life?

I did write it as a short story... although it was long ago and I did not write it in English. I have planned to do an english rewrite at some point. Not sure how it effected me... I do think about her sometimes.


What is your reasoning for death not being an end?

I cannot say I know nor more than someone can say they know that death IS the end...however for me, on a personal level, I just know based on direct experiences in the Amazon and on the magnitude of NDE I have read... and of memories I have... to me it is pretty obvious death is not an end... ;)

:p

Michael Sternbach
06-04-2018, 10:12 AM
I suppose what I am asking is:

In immortality; a continuous stream of consciousness; one might collect so much data that life looses meaning.

At this point would one wish to exit the game? And what if at this point one couldn't?

What if the only way is to enter the game again, delete ones past memory, therefore one's self; death.

Would one choose to forget? Would one choose to be mortal? And if so, why choose immortality?

I don't think collecting more and more data would make life meaningless. Gaining experience and knowledge seems to be one of life's major purposes. At least for me.

And the more I learn, the more meaningful life becomes!

Lots of roads are open to an immortal. How about travelling to other planets? How about meditating about yourself and the Universe for hundreds of years? (Well, with intermissions, to be sure.) The possibilities are endless.

What kind of knowledge, wisdom and powers could be attained?

I can't imagine life would ever get boring.

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 10:43 AM
I no longer try to understand... it's more of forming a partnership or an embrace.
I am beginning to this this is the best choice myself. Like dancing with the universe.


Home is the home I have my computer in... the game itself is not my home. To simplify.
But if the universe is a whole then surely we are always home?


I have planned to do an english rewrite at some point.
I would be interested to read it. :)


Not sure how it effected me... I do think about her sometimes.
Something to ponder. An addendum to the original text?


I cannot say I know nor more than someone can say they know that death IS the end.
With you here.


I just know based on direct experiences in the Amazon and on the magnitude of NDE I have read... and of memories I have... to me it is pretty obvious death is not an end... ;)
Can't argue that, nor say I don't feel the same. I suppose the question then is, what is? :)

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 11:07 AM
I don't think collecting more and more data would make life meaningless. Gaining experience and knowledge seems to be one of life's major purposes.

At first, but if collecting knowledge gives life meaning and eventually one knows all; depending on the ethereal body's memory capacity; then what?

Meaning disappears, all truth is relative, and all that is, is, data.


How about meditating about yourself and the Universe for hundreds of years?

Hadn't thought of the idea of sitting and meditating. I meditate therefore I am not. Interesting thought, adds another choice.

Could wait for people to come interrupt to ask questions then mess with them. XD


What kind of knowledge, wisdom and powers could be attained? I can't imagine life would ever get boring.

All knowledge, wisdom, and powers. This is very much the point for me. Have it all, then what?

Played a game with cheat codes? Gets boring quick. Limits allow challenge, and challenge is fun.

More and more so I am realising it is best just to sit back and enjoy the show.

Michael Sternbach
06-04-2018, 12:22 PM
At first, but if collecting knowledge gives life meaning and eventually one knows all; depending on the ethereal body's memory capacity; then what?

Meaning disappears, all truth is relative, and all that is, is, data.



Hadn't thought of the idea of sitting and meditating. I meditate therefore I am not. Interesting thought, adds another choice.

Could wait for people to come interrupt to ask questions then mess with them. XD

Sounds like fun! You could even 'outsit' Bodhidharma in his cave.


All knowledge, wisdom, and powers. This is very much the point for me. Have it all, then what?

Played a game with cheat codes? Gets boring pretty quick. Limits allow challenge, and challenge fun.

Here's the thing: There is no limit to the knowledge, wisdom and powers open to an immortal in an infinite Universe. Not to mention what you could accomplish with them. Build a solar system? Save a galaxy? Create another Universe in line with your wishes?

If you would run out of challenges, you must be seriously lacking imagination... :p


More and more so I am realising it is best just to sit back and enjoy the show.

Ok.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ_GgOysu6o

Awani
06-04-2018, 12:32 PM
But if the universe is a whole then surely we are always home?

IMO that is also correct, which makes the worry of death even sillier... much better to remain in balance on the board and let the waves take you forward... whatever life or realm it might be...

:p

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 01:49 PM
Sounds like fun! You could even 'outsit' Bodhidharma in his cave.

Got to admit, this part does sound like a right laugh. XD I love a bit of trickster mythos.


Here's the thing: There is no limit to the knowledge, wisdom and powers open to an immortal in an infinite Universe. Not to mention what you could accomplish with them. Build a solar system? Save a galaxy? Create another Universe in line with your wishes? If you would run out of challenges, you must be seriously lacking imagination...

Acquisition of knowledge seems an exponential curve. We appear to live in a cause effect universe; I can't even imagine any other way of doing things, can you? Therefore once one knew all the rules one would be able to imagine all possible consequences of every action one could potentially make, therefore having no reason to do them in actuality. I would totally enjoy the journey towards god head, I don't want to rush to it. May as well live as many mortal lives as I can, if there even is an I. Perhaps live every possible variation of my life until I think it is just right. Might even then reincarnate as my son. I just don't want to go straight to god mode.

I do see what you are saying, infinite means infinite. But can there really be infinite ways to put data together? I am so not sure.

So long as there is a way to break through the temporal then everything must already exist.

To be honest, I am beginning to get lost in my own reasoning... XD and not explaining myself properly due to rushing.
(My bad, just something I am watching myself for at the moment)

And then also, don't get me wrong, this is just where I am at the moment, perhaps you are right, perhaps I lack imagination.

I really enjoyed that video, Pink Floyd rule! :D

Beings we are sharing music, this is off my fav album, I am sure you have heard it but I feel its kind of relevant and always worth another listen.
https://youtu.be/oP2SS8ggLtU

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 02:07 PM
IMO that is also correct, which makes the worry of death even sillier... much better to remain in balance on the board and let the waves take you forward... whatever life or realm it might be...

I completely agree. Got to love a bit of absurdism. Got to keep pushing that boulder up the hill. ;)

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 02:26 PM
Ripped from wiki:
In absurdist philosophy, the Absurd arises out of the fundamental disharmony between the individual's search for meaning and the meaninglessness of the universe. As beings looking for meaning in a meaningless world, humans have three ways of resolving the dilemma. Kierkegaard and Camus describe the solutions in their works, The Sickness Unto Death (1849) and The Myth of Sisyphus (1942), respectively:

Suicide (or, "escaping existence")[or choosing death over immortality]: a solution in which a person ends one's own life. Both Kierkegaard and Camus dismiss the viability of this option. Camus states that it does not counter the Absurd. Rather, the act of ending one's existence only becomes more absurd.

Religious, spiritual, or abstract belief in a transcendent realm, being, or idea: a solution in which one believes in the existence of a reality that is beyond the Absurd, and, as such, has meaning. Kierkegaard stated that a belief in anything beyond the Absurd requires an irrational but perhaps necessary religious acceptance in such an intangible and empirically unprovable thing (now commonly referred to as a "leap of faith"). However, Camus regarded this solution, and others, as "philosophical suicide".

Acceptance of the Absurd: a solution in which one accepts the Absurd and continues to live in spite of it. Camus endorsed this solution, believing that by accepting the Absurd, one can achieve the greatest extent of one's freedom, and that by recognizing no religious or other moral constraints and by revolting against the Absurd while simultaneously accepting it as unstoppable, one could possibly be content from the personal meaning constructed in the process. Kierkegaard, on the other hand, regarded this solution as "demoniac madness": "He rages most of all at the thought that eternity might get it into its head to take his misery from him!"

Though I have a feeling this is a false trichotomy. ;0)P
"The universe is mental!" XDXDXD

Awani
06-04-2018, 03:47 PM
I was by chance listening to Kevin Smith talk about his heart attack today... and [I paraphrase from memory] he said in the moment of facing death he recalled a comic book where a soon-to-be-dead man said to the Grim Reaper: "Why me... it's not fair..."

The Grim Reaper replied: "Everyone gets a life."

So it is fair. We all get the same. Sure some get a long life, some get a short... regardless a short life can be more fulfilled than a long life. I think it is a beautiufl sentiment... and something that is good to consider daily. I often say I think of every day as my last... but I felt today that there is a difference between "thinking" that idea... and living that idea.

I am going to try and live it.

:p

Awani
06-04-2018, 04:13 PM
My perspective below to your points raised...


...the Absurd arises out of the fundamental disharmony between the individual's search for meaning and the meaninglessness of the universe...
There is nothing but meaning from my perspective.


...the act of ending one's existence only becomes more absurd.

I would agree. In most NDE accounts I have read the suicide "victim" is always doomed to "live again".


Kierkegaard stated that a belief in anything beyond the Absurd requires an irrational but perhaps necessary religious acceptance in such an intangible and empirically unprovable thing (now commonly referred to as a "leap of faith"). However, Camus regarded this solution, and others, as "philosophical suicide".

Camus, like Hamlet, belong in the same category of whiny bitches... LOL.

Life. Death. Love. Compassion. Freedom. To fully live and embrace such concept requires one thing: BALLS

Not saying I can fully live or embrace those positions, but I aim too... This brings me to Jesus, and my new found respect for this "character". To fully embrace Jesus outlook requires balls, big fucking balls... to love everyone is not weakness. To hate is weakness. Hate is easy.

I lived hate for a large part of my life. It was so easy.

Love. It is hard. So hard.

Trying to learn to speak a new language is very hard... but if you stick to it, eventually, you'll be fluent? Then you wonder, how did I ever not know it?


...by accepting the Absurd, one can achieve the greatest extent of one's freedom, and that by recognizing no religious or other moral constraints and by revolting against the Absurd while simultaneously accepting it as unstoppable, one could possibly be content from the personal meaning constructed in the process...

I think I go with Camus in this perspective... if I had to pick. However I do like aspects of Kierkegaard... and one summer when I was homeless (of my own accord) I spent a few nights or days sleeping by his tombstone. I think his last words were something like: "...sweep me up."

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It might sound weird but I think Nietzsche knew the game.


Nietzsche approaches the problem of nihilism as a deeply personal one, stating that this problem of the modern world is a problem that has "become conscious" in him... Whether man recovers from it, whether he becomes master of this crisis, is a question of his strength!" According to Nietzsche, it is only when nihilism is overcome that a culture can have a true foundation on which to thrive... - source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche#Death_of_God_and_nihilism)

1. God is dead
2. Because God is dead, nihilism takes control unless one creates new values
3. One to create the new values will have to look beyond good and evil, as no one knows yet what is good and evil.
4. One who creates new values is called ubermensch (overman / superman)
5. A test against nihilism is ubermensch's understanding and acceptance of "the eternal return" - that even if life is the same, he conducts life joyously. Meaning self-similar life is preferable over non-existence.
6. The last man is the opposite of the ubermensch - The last man wants comfort and alms, whereas ubermensch seeks out hardship and creates new values. [= BALLS]
7. Nietzsche calls one to seek out hardship and pain, and also states that "all that is called evil by the good must come together so that the truth can be born."
8. Nietzsche said that only through hardship, one can achieve something great. Because of that Nietzsche thought that evading pain, like drinking alcohol or believing in a religion was the worst thing a person could do for himself. [that is why I base all my beliefs on direct experience, and take nothing at face value, and second hand direct experience if I cannot have it myself like NDE report for example... but scholars usually quote other peoples work that themselves quote first hand... the more scholar the less first hand... scholars are at best 3rd or 4th direct experience... yet have #1 respectability = scam]
9. Nietzsche was staunchly against nihilists. Be believed that it was a malady of soul to be a nihilist.
10. Nietzsche felt that those who are called 'good' were worse than the nihilists. That certainty of being 'good' meant that no new values or greatness can be created. Thus perpetuating the Last Man. - source (https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-simple-explanation-of-Nietzsches-ideas-and-philosophy)

No one can really say what is right/wrong when discussing philosophy... unless you know the philosopher personally... not even then... but I think Nietzsche is totally misunderstood. I think he is a philosopher of joy, of empowerment... of love. He doesn't say "good" is bad... more what is good?

At one point in time where I live it was "good" to beat up homosexuals... now it is not "good"... When I was young it was "good", now when I am older it is not "good"... but I knew since I was born that it was "bad"... my value was outside society... and society caught up to me... in this example at least.

:p

Loki Morningstar
06-05-2018, 06:47 AM
I was by chance listening to Kevin Smith talk about his heart attack today... and [I paraphrase from memory] he said in the moment of facing death he recalled a comic book where a soon-to-be-dead man said to the Grim Reaper: "Why me... it's not fair..."

The Grim Reaper replied: "Everyone gets a life."

So it is fair. We all get the same. Sure some get a long life, some get a short... regardless a short life can be more fulfilled than a long life. I think it is a beautiufl sentiment... and something that is good to consider daily. I often say I think of every day as my last... but I felt today that there is a difference between "thinking" that idea... and living that idea.

I am going to try and live it.

:p

I like Kevin Smith, cool guy. Got to love the film Dogma. The view askew universe is awesome. Hope he does some new films soon.

As for the idea of living every day as your last. Interesting concept I have always wondered about how someone goes about that in a healthy way.

Loki Morningstar
06-05-2018, 06:59 AM
I think I go with Camus in this perspective... if I had to pick. However I do like aspects of Kierkegaard... and one summer when I was homeless (of my own accord) I spent a few nights or days sleeping by his tombstone. I think his last words were something like: "...sweep me up."

Yes this was one of my favourite parts also. I think this very much sums up my attitude.

What do you think he meant by it?



It might sound weird but I think Nietzsche knew the game.

He certainly did have some great ideas. I believe he inspired Jung too.


No one can really say what is right/wrong when discussing philosophy... unless you know the philosopher personally... not even then... but I think Nietzsche is totally misunderstood. I think he is a philosopher of joy, of empowerment... of love. He doesn't say "good" is bad... more what is good?

I agree regarding no one being able to say what is right or wrong. All that is important is what you take from it. I agree.
I mean I like listening to Radiohead, most people say they are depressing, I find them uplifting.


At one point in time where I live it was "good" to beat up homosexuals... now it is not "good"... When I was young it was "good", now when I am older it is not "good"... but I knew since I was born that it was "bad"... my value was outside society... and society caught up to me... in this example at least.

This is very much what I like about absurdism. It spawned other belief systems such as Discordianism. I think the sooner people just live and let live the sooner life will be better for all of us. Absurdism states that people should understand that there is no such thing as universal objective ethics, but they should still have integrity.

Awani
06-06-2018, 11:11 PM
What do you think he meant by it?

Sweep me up = embrace me


I mean I like listening to Radiohead, most people say they are depressing, I find them uplifting.

That is true. And one of the best bands live as well.

:p

tAlchemist
08-07-2018, 09:08 PM
I think you all should watch more criminal-mastermind shows :p

Money is a big influence on people. If you have the elixir of life, you’re also probably smart enough to have a stone which transmutes lead into gold. And I think it’s only a few thousand grand to buy a new life, complete with documentation. Those same people producing the documentation probably aren’t opposed to taking gold and silver as payment.

The hardest part of this strategy, I believe, is coming up with a new name haha.

Didn't realize it was this easy to use cash to buy a new legit identity.

Isn't this more likely like... the human snake, no matter where you go, the traces of who you really are, are stored somewhere and always will be linked to you as long as there's this 'System' of 'whatever' to call it up and running?

To be more clear; If I go to the person and buy new documentation won't this person who works for whatever, keep a document of some sort that would likely be more private saying ''Jameson Charles, Jan 15, 1982 changed his identity to Lemon Squeezy June 4th, 1420'' i mean 1920

Schmuldvich
08-07-2018, 09:30 PM
We're getting to that point with facial recognition, and drones, but we are not totally there yet; getting there though!

The foundation is being laid for no privacy and true anonymity, but we still have a few more years until it's nearly all gone.

Enjoy it while it lasts!

Aspiring Alkemist
08-07-2018, 09:59 PM
I think immortality has been confused and conflated with very very long life. Just a thought.