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Luxus
02-25-2018, 01:46 AM
So lets say you create the philosophers stone. You consume it and now your lifespan has massively extended to hundreds if not thousands of years...is that a wonderful thing or a nightmare? What if politically the world continues to "develop" down the road it is headed?

Would you end up cutting yourself off from the masses? Would you end up walking the Earth alone as a recluse hermit for a very very long time? Would you come to envy those who die?

When you think about it the life of such a person parallels the story of the vampire blessed in some eyes cursed in others!

Its funny I remember a TV program where they interviewed people who made it to over 100 years of age...all of them said it was too long and that they are eagerly looking forward to death :D

Ghislain
02-25-2018, 04:17 AM
I am sure you would have a choice, there must be a plethora of ways you could peacefully end it all if that was your preference.
But having that choice, you would probably find an equal number of reasons not to do it :)

Mortality is not a problem for all animals on the planet, there are many that are immortal, but even they succumb to untimely ends
due to outside influences. The lobster gets eaten by us for instance. <- not the best example :)

Ghislain

JDP
02-25-2018, 06:12 AM
So lets say you create the philosophers stone. You consume it and now your lifespan has massively extended to hundreds if not thousands of years...is that a wonderful thing or a nightmare? What if politically the world continues to "develop" down the road it is headed?

Would you end up cutting yourself off from the masses? Would you end up walking the Earth alone as a recluse hermit for a very very long time? Would you come to envy those who die?

When you think about it the life of such a person parallels the story of the vampire blessed in some eyes cursed in others!

Its funny I remember a TV program where they interviewed people who made it to over 100 years of age...all of them said it was too long and that they are eagerly looking forward to death :D


I don't buy that "I don't want to live forever, please someone shoot me!" thingy. Sounds like something out of a sci-fi movie (like Zardoz), which is fine and entertaining in fiction stories, but hardly reflects reality and how sane, logical & rational people really feel. Anyone who has lived that long and wants to die is most likely because their health is not very good, so to keep on living for much longer in such conditions would indeed become bothersome. But if you could live to be 100 or much beyond that and still retain great health and vigor, I don't think I would see anyone complaining about it! In fact, they would love to keep it going for as long as possible. Nobody in his right mind wants to take a gamble at dying. If there is such a thing as an "afterlife", then that's all fine and dandy, but what if there isn't? You want your brain, your memories, your consciousness, the very essence of who you are, to become nothing but food for the worms? Ghastly end, when you think about it. But we all "do it" because so far there has been no other choice. But cryonics might change that.

http://www.rationalargumentator.com/index/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ELFC_Death_is_Wrong-1024x713.jpg

Luxus
02-25-2018, 12:39 PM
Ageing Aubrey de Grey defines as the accumulation of error. This error manifests in two main ways:

1 The build-up of junk in the biological system which eventually results in error and a system component failing e.g. calcification or protein cross-linking.

2 The accumulation of DNA damage which results in defective cellular replication thus eventual malfunction.


Free radicals released by the mitochondria during energy conversion is a major cause of DNA damage.

We can deal with the cross-linking by taking L-Carnosine
We can deal with calcification by taking vitamin K
We can deal with inter mitochondrial free radicals by taking Q10 and N acetyl cysteine or if your more adventurous carbon 60 dissolved in olive oil.

Carbon 60 dissolved in olive oil has extended the lifespan of rats by 50% which of all the substances tested on rats thus far has had the greatest efficiency.

Ghislain
02-25-2018, 12:54 PM
I agree with JDP here. I think this community is constructed of people of all different ages, is there anyone here
who, given the choice, would choose death over life?

If you have emotional or physical problems that you are having difficulties dealing with then you may see death as
a sort of escape, but I'm sure anyone of sound mind and body would not choose to die, irrespective of age.

For as long as I can remember I have enjoyed watching films, but I am always aware that the enjoyment is temporary
and in a short time, perhaps an hour and a half to two hours the film will be over. I see life pretty much the same, but
I'm still enjoying it while it lasts ;)

On a slightly different note, communities used to look to their elders with respect, todays younger generation look at
their elders as possible dementia cases. I guess, if you were able to live longer, losing those close to you, you may have
a problem building social relationships, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it; give me the pill!!! ;)

Ghislain

Luxus
02-25-2018, 01:23 PM
On a slightly different note, communities used to look to their elders with respect, todays younger generation look at
their elders as possible dementia cases. I guess, if you were able to live longer, losing those close to you, you may have
a problem building social relationships, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it; give me the pill!!! ;)

Ghislain

Another fun thing to think about is how would you avoid attention, do you not think your close family, friends and neighbours would get suspicious. How long would it be before you attract the attention of the media or government. How do you deal with going to the airport and having your passport checked and explaining that yes you really are 200 years old :)

How long before someone wants to kill you for your pill of immortality :eek:

Ghislain
02-25-2018, 01:29 PM
There are two scenarios here Luxus. One is that only you have this pill, the other is that it is readily available to all.
I think your scenario fits with the former and in this case you would have a lot of problems, but along with that you
would have plenty of time to find solutions ;)

Ghislain

Andro
02-25-2018, 01:49 PM
We can deal with the cross-linking by taking L-Carnosine
We can deal with calcification by taking vitamin K
We can deal with inter mitochondrial free radicals by taking Q10 and N acetyl cysteine or if your more adventurous carbon 60 dissolved in olive oil.

Are you taking those, Luxus?

Luxus
02-25-2018, 02:20 PM
Are you taking those, Luxus?

I have taken all of those apart from the C60, but I have taken various types of herbs too.

Awani
02-25-2018, 03:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bOKsOveYD0

:p

Kiorionis
02-25-2018, 03:43 PM
I think you all should watch more criminal-mastermind shows :p

Money is a big influence on people. If you have the elixir of life, you’re also probably smart enough to have a stone which transmutes lead into gold. And I think it’s only a few thousand grand to buy a new life, complete with documentation. Those same people producing the documentation probably aren’t opposed to taking gold and silver as payment.

The hardest part of this strategy, I believe, is coming up with a new name haha.

Luxus
02-25-2018, 05:04 PM
Awani, do you remember...



...what life was like before birth?

Luxus
02-25-2018, 05:06 PM
I think you all should watch more criminal-mastermind shows :p

Money is a big influence on people. If you have the elixir of life, you’re also probably smart enough to have a stone which transmutes lead into gold. And I think it’s only a few thousand grand to buy a new life, complete with documentation. Those same people producing the documentation probably aren’t opposed to taking gold and silver as payment.

The hardest part of this strategy, I believe, is coming up with a new name haha.

True but the thing about crooks is that you can never trust a crook because by their very nature they are dishonest. How much would you trust walking into a airport with your fake passport haha

Kiorionis
02-25-2018, 05:29 PM
That’s the thing though, you don’t buy a fake passport. You buy a real one ;)

That’s what they do in the movies anyways

Awani
02-25-2018, 05:37 PM
...what life was like before birth?

I have had visonary experience of my first life (not this one), but if you want emperical factual memories I cannot remember anything before the age of 5 years or so.

:p

Amon
02-25-2018, 06:47 PM
I can see why someone would consider it unbearable after a certain point. But i don't. I have a rather busy schedule planned out, given that i will succeed at making the elixir.

But as some before me already stated, the elixir doesn't make you immortal, it simply increases your longevity (or so it is said to, opinions are divided).

JDP
02-25-2018, 08:14 PM
Ok so would you say all the successful alchemists before us are heartless bastards for not openly detailing the production of the elixir to the masses ?

Come to think of it how would one cope with burying everyone they have ever loved? Would you reach a point where you would never allow yourself to love anyone ever again?

Hmm, that is interesting, Vampires in the story's are sometimes said not to have a beating heart and to be incapable of love....ultimately then taking the elixir turns you into a vampire :eek:

No, there is a fundamental difference between the immortality of vampires and other kinds: vampires NEED to feed on the life of other people, they are parasites. That's the reason they are believed to be "cursed". It's not the immortality per se that makes them so. For example, no one saw the legendary Chinese "immortals" as "cursed". They did not feed on other people's lives to attain that status. The Chinese alchemists were obsessed with the subject of concocting an "elixir" that would allow them to become one of these "immortals", or at least come close to it by extending their lives as long as possible.

JDP
02-25-2018, 08:23 PM
Another fun thing to think about is how would you avoid attention, do you not think your close family, friends and neighbours would get suspicious. How long would it be before you attract the attention of the media or government. How do you deal with going to the airport and having your passport checked and explaining that yes you really are 200 years old :)

How long before someone wants to kill you for your pill of immortality :eek:

Besides the already recommended Highlander film, also watch the second story of the horror anthology movie, From a Whisper to a Scream. Both movies show two interesting and distinct approaches at how to deal with the subject of immortality or unusual longevity that is not shared with the bulk of mankind:

1- Keep on faking your death and on getting new identities every so many decades as you deem cautious to do so before someone starts suspecting something (this is the "Highlander" approach)

2- Isolate yourself from the bulk of society and live on your own in a remote place, pretty much like a hermit, with as little contact as possible with those who do not know your secret (this is the "From a Whisper to a Scream" approach)

elixirmixer
02-25-2018, 09:07 PM
Id probably run the number 1 senario for a while until id buried all my loved ones. Then i would live remotely, while visiting town every now and again to heal all the kids with cancer and disappear again without a trace or any goodbyes. Id go from town to town. You wouldnt want to get rushed by sick people by coming back to a town you performed miracles in. Remember Jesus and the diciples ditching the masses and going across the sea? Jesus had a plan too ;)

elixirmixer
02-25-2018, 09:14 PM
Unfortunatly, the Stone itself i believe has a 120 year limit. Full immortality requires unlocking shit at higher spiritual levels and opening the floodgates of vitality into the body. I dont think that the Stone; as powerful as it may-be; is going to get you laid by 17yr olds when your 569. Sorry.

elixirmixer
02-25-2018, 09:16 PM
Plus; i dont think it makes you beautiful either so if your ugly then your still going to be ugly, stone or no stone lol

elixirmixer
02-25-2018, 10:04 PM
It says in the book of mormon that Jesus made three of his original deciples immortal on THIS Earth. And also three of his 12 american deciples (we are talking pre-aztec here)

So according to scripture; there are at least 6 blokes walking around this earth in perfected bodies; able to hide their appearance, and show themselves to any worthy people whenever they wish "for the good of humanity".

Luxus
02-25-2018, 10:05 PM
Plus; i dont think it makes you beautiful either so if your ugly then your still going to be ugly, stone or no stone lol

Just as well I'm a 6ft6 hansom devil then ;)

Kibric
02-25-2018, 10:09 PM
Just as well I'm a 6ft6 hansom devil then
You are a chiselled Greek god

elixirmixer
02-25-2018, 10:12 PM
You are a chiselled Greek god

Thats what she said.

Luxus
02-25-2018, 10:28 PM
To the Taoist Alchemists creating the pill of immortality was the first step which culminated in de-materialising your body and flying to the purple palace under the pole-star to hangout with the other immortals in a shambala like realm. So all the alchemists who achieve physical immortality on this Earth eventually pack bags and head off.

In Tibet they call this kind of de-materialisation rainbow body. The body is consumed (like the phoenix) and sometimes only the feet are left. Kinda reminds me of what we call spontaneous human combustion.

Kiorionis
02-25-2018, 11:41 PM
To the Taoist Alchemists creating the pill of immortality was the first step which culminated in de-materialising your body and flying to the purple palace under the pole-star to hangout with the other immortals in a shambala like realm. So all the alchemists who achieve physical immortality on this Earth eventually pack bags and head off.

Technically, the first step for the Taoist alchemists was to become a “Man Immortal amongst Men.” This achievement is a prerequisite for the alchemical work, and has to do more with yoga and martial arts, music, herbalism and philosophy than anything alchemical. It doesn’t give you immortality, but it does give you a fully developed and “charged” physical body in order to begin developing the “Immortal Fetus” which only a “Man Immortal Amongst Men” is capable of instructing and developing.

Luxus
02-26-2018, 01:20 PM
Technically, the first step for the Taoist alchemists was to become a “Man Immortal amongst Men.” This achievement is a prerequisite for the alchemical work, and has to do more with yoga and martial arts, music, herbalism and philosophy than anything alchemical. It doesn’t give you immortality, but it does give you a fully developed and “charged” physical body in order to begin developing the “Immortal Fetus” which only a “Man Immortal Amongst Men” is capable of instructing and developing.
That would be the western equivalent of the seven liberal arts, yes nobody can succeed in this art without first having a grounding in natural philosophy even western alchemists state this. In addition to this nobody succeeds who has not been first chosen by God.

Taoist alchemists must also destroy the etheric demon worms within their body by abstaining from meat and the five grains. Before taking the pill of immortality one must fast and take nothing but water until the intestine/stomach is completely empty. The smell of food digesting in the stomach or faeces sitting in the bowls is a smell repugnant to the immortals. One must bathe on the day the pill is to be taken and then facing the Sun take the pill and be transported to the realm of the immortals. Western alchemists rarely talk about diet or fasting though I feel they intuitively knew what to do.

When you speak of the immortal fetus I think you are talking about the later neidan tradition. The older waidan tradition of producing the pill of immortality is closer to what westerners understand as alchemy.

Kiorionis
02-26-2018, 02:24 PM
When you speak of the immortal fetus I think you are talking about the later neidan tradition. The older waidan tradition of producing the pill of immortality is closer to what westerners understand as alchemy.

Yes, this is what I was talking about, and I agree.

From what I’ve been researching, the Immortal Fetus is also called “Spirit Immortal”
And the actual physical immortality is the “Earth Immortal”.

The two can be practiced separately and achieved fully, but both are required to attain Celestial or Heavenly Immortality.

Luxus
02-26-2018, 03:50 PM
The immortal fetus is one of a few veritys of Chinese yoga. I think it actually has Buddhist roots rather then Taoist roots. The process is detailed in the Hui-ming ching. First one visualises a fetus being nourished in the lower abdomen (dantian) where it is nourished by the circulation of breath (Qi). Next this fetus moves up to the heart or middle dantian as it develops. Further to this it exits the top of the head and is attached to the physical body of the adept by an etheric umbilical cord. Further to this it goes on short journeys away from the physical body (astral projection) still attached by this ethric cord. Finally the etheric cord is broken an the fully formed immortal golden body travels to the celestial abode of the immortals.

As far as I understand it the Taoist forms of yoga are trying to create the jindan in the lower abdomen by refining jing however they consider it to be a subtle chemical process rather then the formation of a living entity of human form. In the Taoist version the adept himself is transformed by the circulation of the jindan and he attains the golden immortal body by transmuting his physical body via the jindan.

The problem I have with the immortal fetus technique is that it is possible to self hypnotise oneself to visualise these things with repetitive visualisation. What would happen for example if one instead of visualising a human fetus visualised a bird or a dragon instead?

Kiorionis
02-26-2018, 05:12 PM
I just reread parts of my copy of the Hui-Ming Ching (translated by Eva Wong), and I see you’re correct that this has some Buddhist ties, but also talks about the Tao. Maybe it’s a mix...

Personally, I think you’re misinterpreting the concept of the “Fetus”

Luxus
02-26-2018, 07:14 PM
I just reread parts of my copy of the Hui-Ming Ching (translated by Eva Wong), and I see you’re correct that this has some Buddhist ties, but also talks about the Tao. Maybe it’s a mix...

Personally, I think you’re misinterpreting the concept of the “Fetus”

Yes chan/Zen Buddhism has concepts within it almost identical to the Dao as I understand it.

Awani
05-20-2018, 01:38 PM
Man should be afraid of death, because it will also be the real death of his real ego forever. I think it would be wrong to achieve such death while still alive by following destructive teachings of blind "enlightened" guides. When man awakens from animalistic sleep, the first thing he realizes is that death IS real and absolute and something must be done about it.

I don't agree with this at all.

Death is an embrace. Nothing to fear. If a teaching works, how can it be destructive? You can teach me how to light a fire... and then I can use your teaching and light a fire in my bed right before going to sleep... the destructive tendencies does not stem from the "blind" teacher per se, but rather from the "deaf" student.

:p

Warmheart
05-20-2018, 05:06 PM
I don't agree with this at all.

Death is an embrace. Nothing to fear. If a teaching works, how can it be destructive? You can teach me how to light a fire... and then I can use your teaching and light a fire in my bed right before going to sleep... the destructive tendencies does not stem from the "blind" teacher per se, but rather from the "deaf" student.

:p
It might be possible to throw out the child with the bath :) While there is false ego, which really stand on the way, it is possible to get rid of your real Self while fighting with false ego.

What concerns death, it was depicted by old nations as huge horrific crocodile. In many old books, most of which aren't translated to European languages, it is clearly said: Man, use this unique opportunity in this life, save yourself, because death is real and you will disappear forever if you don't use the chances.

Western religions made up myths about inherent immortality of the soul to comfort those who is afraid of mortality of the body - that's the main point of confusion for many people. Soul isn't inherently immortal. As above, so and below, when man dies, his soul will also quickly start decaying in order to give life to other mortal beings. And so that soul will die and will be gone forever, only its reflection will stay in the subtle Earth sphere.

That's my view on it, I don't pretend to be speaking ultimate truths. Just personally I'd rather do anything I can to avoid putrefaction of the soul (and, if possible - physical body too) than rely on words of people that immortality is given as granted or that there is nothing scary about death (I had death experiences, it is horrible, appreciate the life - it is PRICELESS). Alchemy allows to make Ultimate Medicine - against death. I am not sure why people overlook that and put all their attention into gold making, as if they can take the gold beyond the grave :p

Andro
05-20-2018, 05:19 PM
Soul isn't inherently immortal. As above, so and below, when man dies, his soul will also quickly start decaying in order to give life to other mortal beings. And so that soul will die and will be gone forever

Quoth Cyliani:


"Only man's form perishes. The spirit, for which the soul serves as a tie or an envelope, separates itself and man's form, deprived of this vital celestial spirit, is delivered to the reaction of its constituent principles. Spirit and soul live then spiritually in seeking the centers that are suitable to them and, after the lapse of a certain time, man or the being or the spirit or the spiritual life which goes on always perfecting itself, separates itself from his soul or from his glorious envelope to enter into its universality. This means that man dies twice. That is to say, twice changes his form. But man or the spirit lives eternally."

Awani
05-20-2018, 05:34 PM
Western religions made up myths about inherent immortality of the soul to comfort those who is afraid of mortality of the body - that's the main point of confusion for many people.

Well the best source for me is the people with the most experience i.e. the indigenous... since they have mostly kept their traditions for longer than the West has even existed... and the common feature in indigneous mythology is best said by quoting the Aboriginal people of Australia:

“We are all visitors to this time, this place.
We are just passing through.
Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love…
and then we return home.”


What concerns death, it was depicted by old nations as huge horrific crocodile...

Sounds like crocodile tears to me.


Just personally I'd rather do anything I can to avoid putrefaction of the soul (and, if possible - physical body too)...

If you don't surrender yourself to the concept of death, then you are going to have a very shitty ride... you will face it no matter what you do... that is a promise, the only certain thing I can really say. You will die. ;)

Either you go like this...

https://preview.ibb.co/eS6hao/Are_You_Making_Tantrums_Worse_3_Mistakes_To_Avoid. jpg

Or like this...

https://image.ibb.co/cheFT8/942d6d85629b90dee73d87599571cf3e.jpg

:p

Awani
05-20-2018, 05:50 PM
...than rely on words of people that immortality is given as granted or that there is nothing scary about death (I had death experiences, it is horrible, appreciate the life - it is PRICELESS). Alchemy allows to make Ultimate Medicine - against death.

I have had death experiences as well... personal and people around me... some that died for "real"... and I agree that life is priceless... but you know what... Bob Dylan made great music and great art BUT WHY WILL HE NOT FUCKING STOP TOURING AND MAKING MUSIC... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... GIVE IT UP!!!

Are you the type of house guest that does not know when to leave? :)

:p

Andro
05-20-2018, 07:25 PM
Years before he died, Tom Petty sang this simple message: "I guess I'll know when I get there. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5BJXwNeKsQ&feature=youtu.be&t=145)"

Or not...

To me, this pretty much sums it up.

Meanwhile, we shall live (and die?) according to our own convictions. Hopefully not too rigidly so.

Awani
05-20-2018, 08:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otAJa3jui8

:p

elixirmixer
05-20-2018, 10:17 PM
I figure that the basic idea here is vibration.

For instance, you need a certain amount of energy, a certain vibration, before you can seperate the astral matrix from the physical body.

Once there, then again, depending on your vibration, you can travel to different spheres of intelligence (you travel to the place that corresponds to your energy)

I believe the whole, "Good people go to Heaven, bad people go to hell" Argument is talking specifically about the vibration of the individual and what area of the astral world it corresponds with.

For instance, lets say you spend your days chronically masterbating, you age quickly and reach the end of your life having achieved little else for anyone but yourself and your balls are bone dry....

What type of energy does the soul then have? After you die, you enter the Astral realm. If you enter the Astral realm, then some stuff is going to happen... like....

You could get scared! Now... remember this is not an adept. This is a balls dry atheist loser. He has just entered the Spirit World. He is going to be scared, with low energy.

His fear will attract the Sharks of the astral realm; which will gladdly escort him to places of even more fear; which correspond perfectly with the low energy, loser soul we are dealing with.

NOW... Lets say we grab Awani and slit his throat.

Awani is not going to face death with nearly the amount of fear and anxiety that our dry balled friend had a moment ago.

He is going to feel more familiar with the process of separating from his body; because he took the time and effort during his waking life to experience and learn about it.

1 point up on Awani; no, to minimum Shark concerns.

Secondly; Awani's soul is going to be of a higher vibration because of his humanitarian love and spiritual practises. So when Awani dies; his soul will naturally gravetate to a place of a higher vibration in the astral realm.

This is why i believe that Death is somethi g that you are suppose to realize is not a great thing; and prepare for it, in which case, if prepared for well; could be the ultimate orgasmic release into infinity.

I vote Yes for Death Preparation.

Kibric
05-20-2018, 11:20 PM
I keep getting a continuous decline in faith in humanity, because all its current history is full of deception and wars.
Stop watching the mainstream news. The world is full of brilliant loving moral people unfortunately they have no power and you wont hear about them.:(


When man awakens from animalistic sleep, the first thing he realizes is that death IS real and absolute and something must be done about it.
Death is unnatural. Ageing is a disease. An unpopular view.
Its mankind's destiny to realise this and its inevitable as a species, we're gonna have to do it some time, assuming we are all still here.

Warmheart
05-21-2018, 05:23 PM
Death is unnatural. Ageing is a disease. An unpopular view.
Its mankind's destiny to realise this and its inevitable as a species, we're gonna have to do it some time, assuming we are all still here.
Indeed, I totally agree with you on these points.

I didn't mean to derail this thread. I simply think that most of modern ways of enlightenment (what an overused word) is actually a spiritual suicide. I also think that embracing the death is like embracing some lethal sickness and adoring it instead of actually seeking the ways to cure it.

Awani
05-21-2018, 05:37 PM
I guess it comes down to what outlook one has. When my car breaks down I simply by a new one. The old car is dead, but my new one is alive. And guess what... I am still driving. That is what death is to me... so any concept of trying to make my old shitty car last longer sounds ridiculous... why waste that energy when a brand new porsche is waiting for me.

:p

Warmheart
05-22-2018, 01:49 PM
I guess it comes down to what outlook one has. When my car breaks down I simply by a new one. The old car is dead, but my new one is alive. And guess what... I am still driving. That is what death is to me... so any concept of trying to make my old shitty car last longer sounds ridiculous... why waste that energy when a brand new porsche is waiting for me.

:p
Then... what about memories of old car or... memories of previous life?

Only relatively few people have authentic memories of past lives, and those are usually those who had violent death or/and could probably be ascribed to specific secondary emanations of Genius of Earth.

And even if you manage to remember the past life, in next life you won't remember neither this nor past life.

So each time you begin anew, and most likely (because of big disproportional difference of poor vs rich) you will be poor, trading whole your life for some promises of good pension or to save for house when you are old, so you die never even getting to live life in your own house. Or just spend whole life in never fulfilling dreams about that. And spend many lives like that - always starting from scratch. Constantly losing all you had.

If to go with your example and with western theory on reincarnations and add some more details. Imagine you have some car and you need to get on it from Spain to France. On your way there you get some incident which causes you to have amnesia and you with new car is back at Spain. You plan to get to some other country (probably even same France, but you are not sure, you don't remember where and why you need to drive), but the same incident repeats, you have new amnesia, new car and you are back in Spain. So you get new car each time, but no memory and all your goals are far beyond reach (or, even if you reach them, you get to enjoy their fruits only extremely short amount of time). And all of that is because of the repeating incident (correlating with death).

I am not sure about you, but I personally find such situation with car being far beyond totally hopeless :p

Awani
05-22-2018, 03:58 PM
Then... what about memories of old car or... memories of previous life?

I try to remain in the present.


If to go with your example and with western theory on reincarnations...

I have not claimed that reincarnation is what happens... all I basically said is that death is birth.


...you will be poor... so you die never even getting to live life in your own house...

Good. I remember one time in an ayahuasca ceremony I entered the life of someone starving to death in Africa. It was a horrible experience. The following day my sense of compassion and grace and gratitude was increased tenfold. From the omnipotent perspective of infinite consciousness a human being can only truly be poor in spirit, love, compassion, passion... IMO.

Regarding reincarnation: yes it is "true" that you might not recall your past lives in your current body... but between bodies you do remember... and I have strong personal evidence that we might actually choose what life we will have. Why are we not all rich and famous Hollywood celebrites then? Because our eternal higher spirit does not place value on materialism, but on experience.

On the flip side: if everything I say is 100 % true then if someone does not accept eternal and infinite consciousness then such individuals might pray that "if only I could die for real". He he he.

:p

Awani
05-22-2018, 04:03 PM
Death is unnatural. Ageing is a disease.

That is correct.

However physical human body is only a temporary mode of transportation or experience pod. If I play Super Mario Bros., and happen to die I turn off the console, and go make a sandwich. From the perspective of Mario I am an immortal God. And from the perspective of the higher self, or the Divine Mystery, I am Mario.

And in the end Mario, I, you and the Divine Mystery are one and the same... a thought adrift in an infintie ocean of constant creation and consciousness.


In the beginning there was nothing. All was darkness. There was nothing at all. Only the mother. She was Aluna. She was pure thought. Without form. She began to think. The mother conceived the world in the darkness. She conceived us as ideas. As we think out a house before we begin to make it real. She spun the thread. Spinning us all in the story. Creating us in thought. And then came the light. And the world was real. - Kogi people creation story

IMO.

:p

Kibric
05-22-2018, 04:32 PM
even if you manage to remember the past life, in next life you won't remember neither this nor past life.
This is really the crux of spiritual immortality. The preservation of your current consciousness. The body being an illusion and the desire to keep it
comes from its attachment to your consciousness. We do not want reincarnation we're not supposed to endlessly forget,
Lao Tzu from the below quote taught how your consciousness could pick up other bodies. Multiple bodies.
The focus on physical immortality is largely to convert this body that is an illusion as a means of becoming deathless.
If the consciousness can preserve itself it can pick up another body or bodies, not only that but also use water fire air earth as a body
it is immortal. The end stages in practises based on physical immortality are the same. An immortal consciousness.

However physical human body is only a temporary mode of transportation or experience pod
My favourite quote from Lao Tzu that encompasses your view.

" All that has the breath of life, all that possesses bodily
form, is mere Illusion. The point at which
creation begins, the change effected by the Dual
Principles — these are called respectively Life
and Death. That which underlies the manifold
workings of Destiny is called Evolution ; that
which produces and transforms bodily substance
is called Illusion. The Creator's ingenuity is
mysterious, His operations secret and profound.
In truth, He is inexhaustible and eternal.

The " Creator," of course, is Tao ; but how widely the
conception of Tao differs from that of a personal God may
be seen from the commentator's note : " How should the
Creator possess a conscious mind ? It is His spontaneity
that constitutes the mystery. Essential matter unites with
extensive energy to become a bodily substance, which follows
the line of evolution and passes away, but does not, on that
account, relapse into nothingness."

The ingenuity of that which causes material
form is patent to the eye, and its workings are
shallow. Therefore it arises anon, and anon it
is destroyed.' Only one who knows that Life
is really Illusion, and that Death is really
Evolution, can begin to learn magic from me.
You and I are both illusions. How are we,
then, to make a study of the subject ? "

" If a person wishes to make a study of illusion, in spite of
the fact that his own body is an illusion, we are reduced to
the absurdity of an illusion studying an illusion."
https://archive.org/stream/taoistteachingsf00liezrich/taoistteachingsf00liezrich_djvu.txt

Awani
05-22-2018, 10:33 PM
If a person wishes to make a study of illusion, in spite of
the fact that his own body is an illusion, we are reduced to
the absurdity of an illusion studying an illusion.

Good quote.

:p

pierre
05-22-2018, 11:25 PM
Give me the eternal life, and I will know that to do with the treacherous death... :)

Warmheart
05-23-2018, 06:55 PM
My favourite quote from Lao Tzu that encompasses your view.
Interesting quote, though it is strange to see it coming from you as we less or more share some general ideas about immortality. So there is an old Eastern legend. I am telling it from memory, so might miss some details.

Once, Shiva was telling Parvati exactly the same words, that matter is illusion, world is illusion, everything is illusion. Parvati (who is, basically in crude words, Nature herself) became upset and told Shiva: "So if everything about me is illusion, you can live without me, I will see how long you will last".

And so Parvati left the world and everything started to wither and die, there was no food and there was hunger all around. Wise Men started to call Parvati to come back as nothing can live without her. And so Parvati heard their callings, and at the edge of the world appeared some tavern, whose mistress was Annapurna (name means full of food).

The world being illusion is an extremely modern view, which appeared only around 2 thousands years ago if not less. And it got huge popularity mostly amidst western people. And it is also western people who invented "Maya = illusion" in its crudest sense.

Regarding reincarnation: yes it is "true" that you might not recall your past lives in your current body... but between bodies you do remember... and I have strong personal evidence that we might actually choose what life we will have. Why are we not all rich and famous Hollywood celebrites then? Because our eternal higher spirit does not place value on materialism, but on experience.
Then why would someone choose a life in the desert without water and roof over the head, constantly suffering from thirst and creepy insectoids? Why would someone choose a life as a son of beggar, living on street, needed not by anyone and begging to survive? When you see some 10-years old kid and you see he is so hungry and can't stand on his legs because they turned into bones with some skin over them? How can someone enjoy it as experience? I think there is a big flaw in theory about "people can choose their future life". How do those people fit this theory? (I'd put a smile, but it isn't something to smile about)

Andro
05-23-2018, 07:37 PM
Then why would someone choose a life in the desert without water and roof over the head, constantly suffering from thirst and creepy insectoids? Why would someone choose a life as a son of beggar, living on street, needed not by anyone and begging to survive? When you see some 10-years old kid and you see he is so hungry and can't stand on his legs because they turned into bones with some skin over them? How can someone enjoy it as experience? I think there is a big flaw in theory about "people can choose their future life". How do those people fit this theory?

One reply comes to mind: ADDICTION.

Addiction to the thrills offered by the ENTIRE spectrum of the sensory experience.

Where's my next fix ? ! ?

:rolleyes:

Awani
05-23-2018, 09:59 PM
The world being illusion is an extremely modern view, which appeared only around 2 thousands years ago if not less. And it got huge popularity mostly amidst western people. And it is also western people who invented "Maya = illusion" in its crudest sense.

Illusion is not a modern view. Only the word.


Then why would someone choose a life in the desert without water and roof over the head, constantly suffering from thirst and creepy insectoids? Why would someone choose a life as a son of beggar, living on street, needed not by anyone and begging to survive? When you see some 10-years old kid and you see he is so hungry and can't stand on his legs because they turned into bones with some skin over them? How can someone enjoy it as experience? I think there is a big flaw in theory about "people can choose their future life". How do those people fit this theory? (I'd put a smile, but it isn't something to smile about)

Why would someone watch a horror film? Why would someone listen to a sad song?

Same thing from the "higher spirit" perspective.

However that does not imply, in this current physical base reality that we should look at those that suffer as deserving because they chose those things... so how can there be such a contradictory view?

Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion. ;)

:p

Loki Morningstar
06-03-2018, 01:33 PM
To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of dispriz'd love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action.

- W. Shakespear, Hamlet.

Awani
06-03-2018, 08:38 PM
If that quote (which I know by heart) is a comment on this thread, then I am not sure in what way?

Hamlet bitching about life not being fair and suicide?

Death is not for cowards. Nor whiny bitches. LOL.

https://i.imgur.com/OT2hx62.jpg

:p

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 08:01 AM
It is a comment on this thread. I'll explain my reasoning. Shakespeare talks about death, he talks about life, and also immortality.


What if politically the world continues to "develop" down the road it is headed?

To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them.

He talks about fighting the status quo. "If the world continues to develop down the road it is headed", there is more than the dichotomy of life as it is, or death. The world is not as one wishes? One can do something about it, or not. With just one lifetime, one can make amazing changes.


Would you come to envy those who die?

If you have emotional or physical problems that you are having difficulties dealing with then you may see death as a sort of escape.

To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd.

Shakespeare then has his character feel oppressed by the idea of continuing to take arms, and weighs the other option. I think this is quite relatable, surely all people have thought this way at some point. If they haven’t, even if just in passing, I think they are less the richer for it.


If there is such a thing as an "afterlife", then that's all fine and dandy, but what if there isn’t?

To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream; ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause;

Is death is truly an end? No evidence either way, no matter how hard one believes. One may want ‘dreams’ after death, one may hope there is not. This is the point, would one want an eternity of taking up arms? An eternity of living? Would one like to eventually sleep the deep sleep, and is this even possible?


there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of dispriz'd love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,

The idea of death inspires one to list one's issues, a positive thing as in seeing the problems, there is a chance to find solutions. One may see the paradox of positive, and negative, things such as love. Love: the cause and the solution to all of life problems. Does the bitter makes the rest sweeter?


But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,

Speaks for itself. Again, who knows before life or after death? I haven’t heard/seen good evidence.


And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action.

Fear of death/unknown, and lust for the unknown, creates drive in equal measures. Death makes life worth living. It causes currents of thought to turn awry and loose the name of action. It invades our thoughts, gives us a jolt, forces us to think of the infinite. Gives reason to act, helps one regroup in times of trouble, and reminds us that nothing really means anything, so relax and enjoy the ride. The snake forever eats its tail, or perhaps not, its mouth and tail remains useful.

IMHO it concisely sums the mental paths of life, death, and immortality; more conciseness may effect it's beauty. Minimum it is a very good start.

Plus, I enjoy it and think its worth sharing Shakespeare any chance one gets. :)

Awani
06-04-2018, 08:14 AM
You should read (although can be hard to get a copy) Colin Wilson's The Philosophers Stone. It is a work of fiction... I won't say more about it. Just read it.

------------------------------

Since we will die whatever we do I don't see it as an issue. That is why I am never home sick. If I go to Africa for a month I know I am going home again at a certain date... so why be home sick? There is no reason. Time will resolve it.

One could argue, if there is something hereafter, that we might feel home sick for Earth life... if that is the case we might reincarnate, and if that is not the case, then I think we just need to look at the NDE reports. People usually feel liberated and free... they don't miss Earth life anymore than you miss a dream.

Although I did fall in love in a dream once, and I carried that ache for months (almost years to some degree). It was very intense. Dorinda was her name.

My official position is that death is not an end, and that is why immortality on Earth is a dumb move. And even if death is the end, immortality simply sounds like greed... people will still want babies... what happens if no one dies? Also we need "new" people... those that have lived for 100 years need to fucking go... leave some room for the next wave.

:p

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 08:14 AM
I suppose what I am trying to say; in case of TLDR. Even if death is an illusion, it is a useful concept, worth keeping in ones head even if just for utility.
An infinity mirror through which to watch the beautiful chaos/order of the eternal nothingness/everythingness, death/life, and everything in-between.

A song I love to sum it up. There's beauty in the darkness.
https://youtu.be/4zLfCnGVeL4

A parody of the above just for funnies. CHOAS MAGICKS! ;0)P
https://youtu.be/cruRyoo2xiE

Awani
06-04-2018, 08:21 AM
I suppose what I am trying to say; in case of TLDR.

I did, that is why I said:

You should read (although can be hard to get a copy) Colin Wilson's The Philosophers Stone. It is a work of fiction... = it deals a lot with Shakespeare... ;)


A song I love to sum it up.

That song is good... this one same kind of vibe and message IMO...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMTEtDBHGY4

:p

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 08:56 AM
You should read (although can be hard to get a copy) Colin Wilson's The Philosophers Stone. It is a work of fiction... I won't say more about it. Just read it.

Will do. :)


Since we will die whatever we do I don't see it as an issue. That is why I am never home sick. If I go to Africa for a month I know I am going home again at a certain date... so why be home sick? There is no reason. Time will resolve it.

That seems a very stoic belief, I like to think this way myself. Doesn't stop me pondering the void.

When you say home in regards to death. How do you mean?


One could argue, if there is something hereafter, that we might feel home sick for Earth life... if that is the case we might reincarnate, and if that is not the case, then I think we just need to look at the NDE reports. People usually feel liberated and free... they don't miss Earth life anymore than you miss a dream.

I could agree with this as a thought experiment, and agree with your logic.


Although I did fall in love in a dream once, and I carried that ache for months (almost years to some degree). It was very intense. Dorinda was her name.

Would be interested to hear the full story of this at some point. How did that effect you in your every day life?


My official position is that death is not an end, and that is why immortality on Earth is a dumb move. And even if death is the end, immortality simply sounds like greed... people will still want babies... what happens if no one dies? Also we need "new" people... those that have lived for 100 years need to fucking go... leave some room for the next wave.

A fair balanced opinion. What is your reasoning for death not being an end? I agree if there is an afterlife it may be dumb move, although not so much if there isn't, or if one can decide when to pass away. I agree that while we are all stuck on this planet it could be seen as greedy though.

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 09:00 AM
Sorry TLDR was not for anyone specific, just realised it was a bit of an essay lol. I hadn't seen your reply at that point.

Beautiful song. I can see the similarity, its like a love song to the void. <3 :)

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 09:22 AM
I suppose what I am asking is:

In immortality; a continuous stream of consciousness; one might collect so much data that life looses meaning.

At this point would one wish to exit the game? And what if at this point one couldn't?

What if the only way is to enter the game again, delete ones past memory, therefore one's self; death.

Would one choose to forget? Would one choose to be mortal? And if so, why choose immortality?

Awani
06-04-2018, 10:03 AM
That seems a very stoic belief, I like to think this way myself. Doesn't stop me pondering the void. When you say home in regards to death. How do you mean?

I am involved with the Mystery [the Void] on a daily basis, although I no longer try to understand... it's more of forming a partnership or an embrace. As for death being home, well it's like playing a video game. Home is the home I have my computer in... the game itself is not my home. To simplify.


Would be interested to hear the full story of this at some point. How did that effect you in your every day life?

I did write it as a short story... although it was long ago and I did not write it in English. I have planned to do an english rewrite at some point. Not sure how it effected me... I do think about her sometimes.


What is your reasoning for death not being an end?

I cannot say I know nor more than someone can say they know that death IS the end...however for me, on a personal level, I just know based on direct experiences in the Amazon and on the magnitude of NDE I have read... and of memories I have... to me it is pretty obvious death is not an end... ;)

:p

Michael Sternbach
06-04-2018, 10:12 AM
I suppose what I am asking is:

In immortality; a continuous stream of consciousness; one might collect so much data that life looses meaning.

At this point would one wish to exit the game? And what if at this point one couldn't?

What if the only way is to enter the game again, delete ones past memory, therefore one's self; death.

Would one choose to forget? Would one choose to be mortal? And if so, why choose immortality?

I don't think collecting more and more data would make life meaningless. Gaining experience and knowledge seems to be one of life's major purposes. At least for me.

And the more I learn, the more meaningful life becomes!

Lots of roads are open to an immortal. How about travelling to other planets? How about meditating about yourself and the Universe for hundreds of years? (Well, with intermissions, to be sure.) The possibilities are endless.

What kind of knowledge, wisdom and powers could be attained?

I can't imagine life would ever get boring.

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 10:43 AM
I no longer try to understand... it's more of forming a partnership or an embrace.
I am beginning to this this is the best choice myself. Like dancing with the universe.


Home is the home I have my computer in... the game itself is not my home. To simplify.
But if the universe is a whole then surely we are always home?


I have planned to do an english rewrite at some point.
I would be interested to read it. :)


Not sure how it effected me... I do think about her sometimes.
Something to ponder. An addendum to the original text?


I cannot say I know nor more than someone can say they know that death IS the end.
With you here.


I just know based on direct experiences in the Amazon and on the magnitude of NDE I have read... and of memories I have... to me it is pretty obvious death is not an end... ;)
Can't argue that, nor say I don't feel the same. I suppose the question then is, what is? :)

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 11:07 AM
I don't think collecting more and more data would make life meaningless. Gaining experience and knowledge seems to be one of life's major purposes.

At first, but if collecting knowledge gives life meaning and eventually one knows all; depending on the ethereal body's memory capacity; then what?

Meaning disappears, all truth is relative, and all that is, is, data.


How about meditating about yourself and the Universe for hundreds of years?

Hadn't thought of the idea of sitting and meditating. I meditate therefore I am not. Interesting thought, adds another choice.

Could wait for people to come interrupt to ask questions then mess with them. XD


What kind of knowledge, wisdom and powers could be attained? I can't imagine life would ever get boring.

All knowledge, wisdom, and powers. This is very much the point for me. Have it all, then what?

Played a game with cheat codes? Gets boring quick. Limits allow challenge, and challenge is fun.

More and more so I am realising it is best just to sit back and enjoy the show.

Michael Sternbach
06-04-2018, 12:22 PM
At first, but if collecting knowledge gives life meaning and eventually one knows all; depending on the ethereal body's memory capacity; then what?

Meaning disappears, all truth is relative, and all that is, is, data.



Hadn't thought of the idea of sitting and meditating. I meditate therefore I am not. Interesting thought, adds another choice.

Could wait for people to come interrupt to ask questions then mess with them. XD

Sounds like fun! You could even 'outsit' Bodhidharma in his cave.


All knowledge, wisdom, and powers. This is very much the point for me. Have it all, then what?

Played a game with cheat codes? Gets boring pretty quick. Limits allow challenge, and challenge fun.

Here's the thing: There is no limit to the knowledge, wisdom and powers open to an immortal in an infinite Universe. Not to mention what you could accomplish with them. Build a solar system? Save a galaxy? Create another Universe in line with your wishes?

If you would run out of challenges, you must be seriously lacking imagination... :p


More and more so I am realising it is best just to sit back and enjoy the show.

Ok.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ_GgOysu6o

Awani
06-04-2018, 12:32 PM
But if the universe is a whole then surely we are always home?

IMO that is also correct, which makes the worry of death even sillier... much better to remain in balance on the board and let the waves take you forward... whatever life or realm it might be...

:p

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 01:49 PM
Sounds like fun! You could even 'outsit' Bodhidharma in his cave.

Got to admit, this part does sound like a right laugh. XD I love a bit of trickster mythos.


Here's the thing: There is no limit to the knowledge, wisdom and powers open to an immortal in an infinite Universe. Not to mention what you could accomplish with them. Build a solar system? Save a galaxy? Create another Universe in line with your wishes? If you would run out of challenges, you must be seriously lacking imagination...

Acquisition of knowledge seems an exponential curve. We appear to live in a cause effect universe; I can't even imagine any other way of doing things, can you? Therefore once one knew all the rules one would be able to imagine all possible consequences of every action one could potentially make, therefore having no reason to do them in actuality. I would totally enjoy the journey towards god head, I don't want to rush to it. May as well live as many mortal lives as I can, if there even is an I. Perhaps live every possible variation of my life until I think it is just right. Might even then reincarnate as my son. I just don't want to go straight to god mode.

I do see what you are saying, infinite means infinite. But can there really be infinite ways to put data together? I am so not sure.

So long as there is a way to break through the temporal then everything must already exist.

To be honest, I am beginning to get lost in my own reasoning... XD and not explaining myself properly due to rushing.
(My bad, just something I am watching myself for at the moment)

And then also, don't get me wrong, this is just where I am at the moment, perhaps you are right, perhaps I lack imagination.

I really enjoyed that video, Pink Floyd rule! :D

Beings we are sharing music, this is off my fav album, I am sure you have heard it but I feel its kind of relevant and always worth another listen.
https://youtu.be/oP2SS8ggLtU

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 02:07 PM
IMO that is also correct, which makes the worry of death even sillier... much better to remain in balance on the board and let the waves take you forward... whatever life or realm it might be...

I completely agree. Got to love a bit of absurdism. Got to keep pushing that boulder up the hill. ;)

Loki Morningstar
06-04-2018, 02:26 PM
Ripped from wiki:
In absurdist philosophy, the Absurd arises out of the fundamental disharmony between the individual's search for meaning and the meaninglessness of the universe. As beings looking for meaning in a meaningless world, humans have three ways of resolving the dilemma. Kierkegaard and Camus describe the solutions in their works, The Sickness Unto Death (1849) and The Myth of Sisyphus (1942), respectively:

Suicide (or, "escaping existence")[or choosing death over immortality]: a solution in which a person ends one's own life. Both Kierkegaard and Camus dismiss the viability of this option. Camus states that it does not counter the Absurd. Rather, the act of ending one's existence only becomes more absurd.

Religious, spiritual, or abstract belief in a transcendent realm, being, or idea: a solution in which one believes in the existence of a reality that is beyond the Absurd, and, as such, has meaning. Kierkegaard stated that a belief in anything beyond the Absurd requires an irrational but perhaps necessary religious acceptance in such an intangible and empirically unprovable thing (now commonly referred to as a "leap of faith"). However, Camus regarded this solution, and others, as "philosophical suicide".

Acceptance of the Absurd: a solution in which one accepts the Absurd and continues to live in spite of it. Camus endorsed this solution, believing that by accepting the Absurd, one can achieve the greatest extent of one's freedom, and that by recognizing no religious or other moral constraints and by revolting against the Absurd while simultaneously accepting it as unstoppable, one could possibly be content from the personal meaning constructed in the process. Kierkegaard, on the other hand, regarded this solution as "demoniac madness": "He rages most of all at the thought that eternity might get it into its head to take his misery from him!"

Though I have a feeling this is a false trichotomy. ;0)P
"The universe is mental!" XDXDXD

Awani
06-04-2018, 03:47 PM
I was by chance listening to Kevin Smith talk about his heart attack today... and [I paraphrase from memory] he said in the moment of facing death he recalled a comic book where a soon-to-be-dead man said to the Grim Reaper: "Why me... it's not fair..."

The Grim Reaper replied: "Everyone gets a life."

So it is fair. We all get the same. Sure some get a long life, some get a short... regardless a short life can be more fulfilled than a long life. I think it is a beautiufl sentiment... and something that is good to consider daily. I often say I think of every day as my last... but I felt today that there is a difference between "thinking" that idea... and living that idea.

I am going to try and live it.

:p

Awani
06-04-2018, 04:13 PM
My perspective below to your points raised...


...the Absurd arises out of the fundamental disharmony between the individual's search for meaning and the meaninglessness of the universe...
There is nothing but meaning from my perspective.


...the act of ending one's existence only becomes more absurd.

I would agree. In most NDE accounts I have read the suicide "victim" is always doomed to "live again".


Kierkegaard stated that a belief in anything beyond the Absurd requires an irrational but perhaps necessary religious acceptance in such an intangible and empirically unprovable thing (now commonly referred to as a "leap of faith"). However, Camus regarded this solution, and others, as "philosophical suicide".

Camus, like Hamlet, belong in the same category of whiny bitches... LOL.

Life. Death. Love. Compassion. Freedom. To fully live and embrace such concept requires one thing: BALLS

Not saying I can fully live or embrace those positions, but I aim too... This brings me to Jesus, and my new found respect for this "character". To fully embrace Jesus outlook requires balls, big fucking balls... to love everyone is not weakness. To hate is weakness. Hate is easy.

I lived hate for a large part of my life. It was so easy.

Love. It is hard. So hard.

Trying to learn to speak a new language is very hard... but if you stick to it, eventually, you'll be fluent? Then you wonder, how did I ever not know it?


...by accepting the Absurd, one can achieve the greatest extent of one's freedom, and that by recognizing no religious or other moral constraints and by revolting against the Absurd while simultaneously accepting it as unstoppable, one could possibly be content from the personal meaning constructed in the process...

I think I go with Camus in this perspective... if I had to pick. However I do like aspects of Kierkegaard... and one summer when I was homeless (of my own accord) I spent a few nights or days sleeping by his tombstone. I think his last words were something like: "...sweep me up."

----------------------------------------

It might sound weird but I think Nietzsche knew the game.


Nietzsche approaches the problem of nihilism as a deeply personal one, stating that this problem of the modern world is a problem that has "become conscious" in him... Whether man recovers from it, whether he becomes master of this crisis, is a question of his strength!" According to Nietzsche, it is only when nihilism is overcome that a culture can have a true foundation on which to thrive... - source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche#Death_of_God_and_nihilism)

1. God is dead
2. Because God is dead, nihilism takes control unless one creates new values
3. One to create the new values will have to look beyond good and evil, as no one knows yet what is good and evil.
4. One who creates new values is called ubermensch (overman / superman)
5. A test against nihilism is ubermensch's understanding and acceptance of "the eternal return" - that even if life is the same, he conducts life joyously. Meaning self-similar life is preferable over non-existence.
6. The last man is the opposite of the ubermensch - The last man wants comfort and alms, whereas ubermensch seeks out hardship and creates new values. [= BALLS]
7. Nietzsche calls one to seek out hardship and pain, and also states that "all that is called evil by the good must come together so that the truth can be born."
8. Nietzsche said that only through hardship, one can achieve something great. Because of that Nietzsche thought that evading pain, like drinking alcohol or believing in a religion was the worst thing a person could do for himself. [that is why I base all my beliefs on direct experience, and take nothing at face value, and second hand direct experience if I cannot have it myself like NDE report for example... but scholars usually quote other peoples work that themselves quote first hand... the more scholar the less first hand... scholars are at best 3rd or 4th direct experience... yet have #1 respectability = scam]
9. Nietzsche was staunchly against nihilists. Be believed that it was a malady of soul to be a nihilist.
10. Nietzsche felt that those who are called 'good' were worse than the nihilists. That certainty of being 'good' meant that no new values or greatness can be created. Thus perpetuating the Last Man. - source (https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-simple-explanation-of-Nietzsches-ideas-and-philosophy)

No one can really say what is right/wrong when discussing philosophy... unless you know the philosopher personally... not even then... but I think Nietzsche is totally misunderstood. I think he is a philosopher of joy, of empowerment... of love. He doesn't say "good" is bad... more what is good?

At one point in time where I live it was "good" to beat up homosexuals... now it is not "good"... When I was young it was "good", now when I am older it is not "good"... but I knew since I was born that it was "bad"... my value was outside society... and society caught up to me... in this example at least.

:p

Loki Morningstar
06-05-2018, 06:47 AM
I was by chance listening to Kevin Smith talk about his heart attack today... and [I paraphrase from memory] he said in the moment of facing death he recalled a comic book where a soon-to-be-dead man said to the Grim Reaper: "Why me... it's not fair..."

The Grim Reaper replied: "Everyone gets a life."

So it is fair. We all get the same. Sure some get a long life, some get a short... regardless a short life can be more fulfilled than a long life. I think it is a beautiufl sentiment... and something that is good to consider daily. I often say I think of every day as my last... but I felt today that there is a difference between "thinking" that idea... and living that idea.

I am going to try and live it.

:p

I like Kevin Smith, cool guy. Got to love the film Dogma. The view askew universe is awesome. Hope he does some new films soon.

As for the idea of living every day as your last. Interesting concept I have always wondered about how someone goes about that in a healthy way.

Loki Morningstar
06-05-2018, 06:59 AM
I think I go with Camus in this perspective... if I had to pick. However I do like aspects of Kierkegaard... and one summer when I was homeless (of my own accord) I spent a few nights or days sleeping by his tombstone. I think his last words were something like: "...sweep me up."

Yes this was one of my favourite parts also. I think this very much sums up my attitude.

What do you think he meant by it?



It might sound weird but I think Nietzsche knew the game.

He certainly did have some great ideas. I believe he inspired Jung too.


No one can really say what is right/wrong when discussing philosophy... unless you know the philosopher personally... not even then... but I think Nietzsche is totally misunderstood. I think he is a philosopher of joy, of empowerment... of love. He doesn't say "good" is bad... more what is good?

I agree regarding no one being able to say what is right or wrong. All that is important is what you take from it. I agree.
I mean I like listening to Radiohead, most people say they are depressing, I find them uplifting.


At one point in time where I live it was "good" to beat up homosexuals... now it is not "good"... When I was young it was "good", now when I am older it is not "good"... but I knew since I was born that it was "bad"... my value was outside society... and society caught up to me... in this example at least.

This is very much what I like about absurdism. It spawned other belief systems such as Discordianism. I think the sooner people just live and let live the sooner life will be better for all of us. Absurdism states that people should understand that there is no such thing as universal objective ethics, but they should still have integrity.

Awani
06-06-2018, 11:11 PM
What do you think he meant by it?

Sweep me up = embrace me


I mean I like listening to Radiohead, most people say they are depressing, I find them uplifting.

That is true. And one of the best bands live as well.

:p

tAlchemist
08-07-2018, 09:08 PM
I think you all should watch more criminal-mastermind shows :p

Money is a big influence on people. If you have the elixir of life, you’re also probably smart enough to have a stone which transmutes lead into gold. And I think it’s only a few thousand grand to buy a new life, complete with documentation. Those same people producing the documentation probably aren’t opposed to taking gold and silver as payment.

The hardest part of this strategy, I believe, is coming up with a new name haha.

Didn't realize it was this easy to use cash to buy a new legit identity.

Isn't this more likely like... the human snake, no matter where you go, the traces of who you really are, are stored somewhere and always will be linked to you as long as there's this 'System' of 'whatever' to call it up and running?

To be more clear; If I go to the person and buy new documentation won't this person who works for whatever, keep a document of some sort that would likely be more private saying ''Jameson Charles, Jan 15, 1982 changed his identity to Lemon Squeezy June 4th, 1420'' i mean 1920

Schmuldvich
08-07-2018, 09:30 PM
We're getting to that point with facial recognition, and drones, but we are not totally there yet; getting there though!

The foundation is being laid for no privacy and true anonymity, but we still have a few more years until it's nearly all gone.

Enjoy it while it lasts!

Aspiring Alkemist
08-07-2018, 09:59 PM
I think immortality has been confused and conflated with very very long life. Just a thought.

Martius
10-25-2018, 01:12 AM
There are those who point out that this present age of Kali Yuga will not last forever. Likewise figures like Evola hint that one purpose of a series of rebirths is that one has a mission to influence invents. As Wittgenstein said, we always make predictions about the future assuming history moves in a straight line. In fact it describes a slow curve we generally do not see. Yes, this (dis-) civilization is headed for disaster, whether fast or gradual. This does not mean that the disaster is the end. If one can take a hand, it might be worth sticking around.

Warmheart
12-01-2018, 06:51 PM
Consider that you are not you.
Maybe its just one infinite life you already lived.
- Zhuangzi
It is cool that Zhuangzi had such dreams, it seems that he had a calm and lazy life, but modern people have to work hard for their food so their sleep is mostly devoid of dreams. It is like if oligarch would tell that everyone is rich and can dream about being rich.

This is also similar to notion "everyone is a God".

People can think of themselves as Gods, as those with infinite lives, immortal through their work, immortal through their children, immortal from all sides, superable megabeings. If that is so then why there is so much death, decay and wars made because of extremely primitive petty reasons?

I am afraid that humanity as a whole thinks like that, so instead of spending money to research how to prolong life (not by some pathetic 5-10-50 years, but making it last indefinitely long) and make bodies physically invulnerable, instead science is business now and most of money is spent on waging wars, while average modern slaves are being fed with crap like "everyone is already immortal, you are immortal through reincarnation, you are Gods" and similar deceptions.

I don't understand what might be hard about accepting that people are mortal and think what to do about that instead of spreading various fantasies. Life is extremely short to spend it on fantasy. Why invent various definition of immortality, when it can only mean one thing - not being mortal? It means, at very least, - to have continuous consciousness. Everything else, various other "versions" of immortality are just multiplications of lie. And aren't we on Alchemy forums, where one of the things people are aiming at is receiving Elixir of Life, which grants immortality? Seems that people aren't so inherently immortal even from Alchemical point of view as it requires a special preparations and is a big mystery, extremely high and heavily defended secret.

Awani
12-01-2018, 07:51 PM
It is cool that Zhuangzi had such dreams, it seems that he had a calm and lazy life, but modern people have to work hard for their food so their sleep is mostly devoid of dreams. It is like if oligarch would tell that everyone is rich and can dream about being rich.

This is also similar to notion "everyone is a God".

People can think of themselves as Gods, as those with infinite lives, immortal through their work, immortal through their children, immortal from all sides, superable megabeings. If that is so then why there is so much death, decay and wars made because of extremely primitive petty reasons?

I am afraid that humanity as a whole thinks like that, so instead of spending money to research how to prolong life (not by some pathetic 5-10-50 years, but making it last indefinitely long) and make bodies physically invulnerable, instead science is business now and most of money is spent on waging wars, while average modern slaves are being fed with crap like "everyone is already immortal, you are immortal through reincarnation, you are Gods" and similar deceptions.

I don't understand what might be hard about accepting that people are mortal and think what to do about that instead of spreading various fantasies. Life is extremely short to spend it on fantasy. Why invent various definition of immortality, when it can only mean one thing - not being mortal? It means, at very least, - to have continuous consciousness. Everything else, various other "versions" of immortality are just multiplications of lie. And aren't we on Alchemy forums, where one of the things people are aiming at is receiving Elixir of Life, which grants immortality? Seems that people aren't so inherently immortal even from Alchemical point of view as it requires a special preparations and is a big mystery, extremely high and heavily defended secret.

Instead of taking above quote apart... let's drum the answer...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/c25297b1980dc5420cf4563270676f6b/tenor.gif?itemid=11594065


And aren't we on Alchemy forums, where one of the things people are aiming at is receiving Elixir of Life, which grants immortality?

Yes lots of people. Also a lot of people are trying to make gold.

https://i.imgur.com/hrFXFdy.gif?noredirect

:p

Warmheart
12-01-2018, 08:06 PM
Yes lots of people. Also a lot of people are trying to make gold.

:p
It seems that you don't take seriously this side of Alchemy too?

Awani
12-01-2018, 08:17 PM
http://replygif.net/i/1337.gif

:p

Kibric
12-01-2018, 09:22 PM
It is cool that Zhuangzi had such dreams, it seems that he had a calm and lazy life, but modern people have to work hard for their food so their sleep is mostly devoid of dreams. It is like if oligarch would tell that everyone is rich and can dream about being rich.

I think Zhuangzi was making a point about the dream like nature of reality. The metaphysical question is which life is the dream.


Why invent various definition of immortality, when it can only mean one thing - not being mortal? It means, at very least, - to have continuous consciousness. Everything else, various other "versions" of immortality are just multiplications of lie. And aren't we on Alchemy forums, where one of the things people are aiming at is receiving Elixir of Life, which grants immortality? Seems that people aren't so inherently immortal even from Alchemical point of view as it requires a special preparations and is a big mystery, extremely high and heavily defended secret.
What about merging with water or air, that's the most common immortality. The Elixir of life does not grant a continuous consciousness,
it repairs all damage and purifies the physical body. " Earth immortal " is the limit of physical alchemy, unlike " heavenly immortal " the physical body hasn't been transformed.
The consciousness is still local to the body. Merging your consciousness with a body of water or earth, an element, was the ideal for immortality
long before the preservation of the physical body. That was essentially a stepping stone.

Warmheart
12-02-2018, 01:52 PM
I am not intrested in ”your” kind of gold. Wealth of that sort is toilet paper. And I am not saying that because I don’t have any gold. I am not saying that because I do not have wealth. Compared to most people in the world I am rich as fuck. I would even guess I am in the 1% in terms of wealth amongst all the people in this forum (mostly due to the fact that I live and grew up in one of the richest countries in the world). Wealth is convenient. But it does not do anything for me in the grand scheme of things. To become rich is easy, all you need is to perform actions. To find peace is a war most people loose. That is why it is called Jihad, it means ”inner war”.

I have as much evidence for what I am saying as you do for what you are saying. I am not saying you cannot make gold... I am saying: why bother?
You say wealth is toilet paper probably because you never experienced poverty and necessity to work hard to barely survive. Then you'd understand that gold (as in money) opens opportunity to live and get access to otherwise extremely overpriced things, e.g. piece of land (a lot of people don't have that, you can tell them that gold is useless like toilet paper, but they still no place which they could call home). It would also open opportunity to do your thing and not spend 10 hours a day to work for the other and get just enough money for food and paying innumerable taxes.

Same goes for immortality. When you grow older and realize that all your life opportunities were stolen/destroyed by various life circumstances and your only real close perspective is death without even feeling what does it mean to be happy, what does it mean to have any substantial success at least in one part of life, but your own body starts defying you because of age, and all you want is just more time to try and maybe get success anywhere, but you basically failed at everything and for reasons which don't depend from you, e.g. you were born in poverty and you are ugly and with some defect, which makes you an exile among people, so you are mostly alone in your misery and everything that you attempt ends in vain. If you at least had more life time, so you could actually attempt to take some aspects of life by brute force, e.g. gather enough money to afford extremely overpriced stuff that this world can offer to the "chosen" to fix your problems.

Understand me right, Awani, I greatly sympathize you and you are very charming, but your point of view is greatly subjective. You have luxury of writing about this while not experiencing poverty, not suffering from old age, not suffering from many other problems. Your mind isn't filled with thoughts "where to get money for food just to survive one more day" or "old age came but I didn't have time for so many things in this life because I basically spent all my [extremely short] life trying to survive".

It is like if man with huge food plantations and access to water sources said: "Food and water aren't important for life, they are subjective, they are just shit and not needed in this life, if people had peace in their heart they wouldn't need to bother about food and water." He says so to those who live in desert or in heavily urbanized areas where food doesn't grow on trees and river water is too tainted to drink.

Sometimes I wonder did you really feel unity with something Big, because such unity also brings a lot of sorrow, there is a lot of suffering everywhere around, you feel pain of every little creature, you also feel demonic energies which entangled this world. You also start realizing that poverty, sickness, death - they are pathologies, they are highly unnatural.

There were wise words of Socrates, which could be formulated like "I know that I really don't know anything". Once you start thinking that you know something, you know how things work, then your path to knowledge ends, because such thinking is usually result of vanity and not of hardship.

Are you ready to give away all your wealth and go live in some Asian villages near coal mines, where people live like in living hell, illegally selling coal to buyers from nearby city, having to go there daily on foot with heavy coal chunks on you for a few cents, and die in horrible pain because of inhaling various toxic fumes and severe physical exhaustion? Also forget about Internet and how to write or read, it is nigh impossible to do so in those places. Are you ready to tell them that death is OK and money is useless? That life is all good, they just don't know how to be happy?

Awani
12-02-2018, 02:05 PM
Wait a minute... LOL... I have experienced poverty... I have experienced suffering... death of loved ones... exile... bullying... deep depression... intense rage (which is suffering)... addiction... I have even been homeless living on the street... in a sense I have done what Buddha does... I left "the palace" and walked out into the world... sure my advantage was that I could read/write and that I had the privelege of my passport etc... so I could more easily "make my way back" into "the palace". But you keep assuming I don't have experience with suffering.

In all my travels, and in my job, I work, visit and talk to the suffering. I have been with the starving, the homeless, the victims of war... ironically I probably (unless you say otherwise) know more about it than you from my own direct experiences. You don't even know how old I am... probably older than I seem.

Gold is toiletpaper = an attitude

Great black comedian Dick Gregory famously said: "White is not a color, it is an attitude." Same kinda thing.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like JDP you present everything in black and white. Either WEALTH or COAL MINE. You miss my point... or perhaps you "cannot see it"... which is fine. Doesn't matter to me really. But coal miners in Asia are probably more happy in their soul than most people in Monaco... that doesn't mean they "like to be coal miners"...

Death is not unnatural. Death and Birth is the same thing. Suffering, sickness and poverty is a chance to be initiated. Attitude. It's all attitude. Does not mean we should not try and remove suffering from the world. Should be priority number one.

We have to walk the liminal ridge. Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion. Just because it's a all a dream... doesn't mean it is not real. It is a paradox that should not be resisted, but embraced... in that lies liberation. In my opinion.

When I say I know what I know that simply means I know... does not mean I know everything... I know what I know can also mean I know that I know that I don't know...

:p

Andro
12-02-2018, 02:57 PM
Perspective is never absolute and is always dependent on the person and on angle/context/timing (to name a few). Including one's perspective on "spiritual" matters such as "re-incarnation", "suffering" and "immortality".

It's not "Nature Vs. Nurture", but rather "Nature AND Nurture". The latter (Nurture) usually has a lot of influence on how the former (Nature) will be expressed. There's natal potential and environmental stimuli. Those two are interdependent to a large degree, from biology/physiology to spiritual inclinations/perspectives. I don't remember where I read that many brains are born "pre-wired" for religion. Whether or how this "religious wiring" will be activated is a question of environment and life stressors/stimuli, among other variables.

For example, a hetero white male who grew up a in one of the wealthiest countries (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9UmdY0E8hU&feature=youtu.be&t=915) even if he lived on the streets, will quite likely have a somewhat different outlook on life and spirituality than someone who grew up gay in Russia or Iran, even if they both have innate spiritual inclinations. "Living on the street" in Stockholm, Oslo, Toronto or Copenhagen is not the same as "living on the street" in Tehran or Afghanistan or Jamaica or Dubai.

There has been some recent civil unrest in France against the current president. Don't recall the reason, probably something about raising taxes. Macron is also unwilling/incapable to understand that the former Eastern Block EU counties can not "progress" "and rise up to EU standards" at the same rate as those who have not been under the communist boot for more than 70 years. I've spent a few weeks in Bulgaria this year and the previous one. Communism is STILL very much present in the air and in the mind, even after all these years. Basing an argument on a few variables while ignoring the others is myopic and pretty much useless for such a "debate". "Attitude" is also a function of longitude and latitude, dude :) It's a good and valid starting point, but it's not enough in the larger scheme of things.

I believe something similar is occurring on this thread. There are neither "correct" nor "conflicting" answers here, because we all have different innate wiring, we all developed in different environments and we were all exposed to different stimuli. A "hunch" or "inner feeling" doesn't count except as a custom-tailored "opiate" of sorts, often further boosted by the use of psychedelics. Fierce denial of "it" (spiritual insight & perception) is also in the very same "opiate" category, further boosted by the equally psychoactive narratives of the religion of scientism. We all have different innate potentials and different environments/experiential stimuli through which our brains and views/beliefs have developed. Most people can only see themselves, and this defines the limitations of what they are able to express. Those who can truly SEE others are more rare that Californium :)

Ultimately, one's current sate of affairs is not an indicator for anything except for one's current state of affairs. Tomorrow or even tonight something can happen "out of the fucking blue" and change EVERYTHING, even the "attitude". Time, unforgiving, is the ultimate "judge" of our lives, after we're dead and gone.

Some avoid The Mystery. Others attempt to either explain or negate it. Some simply embrace it, always. Others embrace it only when convenient, and yet others embrace it only in/after times of despair. Big variety here...

And yet, all in All, the mystery remains The Mystery.

Even for the gods :)

Awani
12-02-2018, 04:18 PM
I agree with that... however worthy to point out that suffering cannot be "compared". So someone bullied in rich Norway or someone bullied in poor South Sudan probably have a lot more in common than not. Everything is relative... yet not. I have friends that grew up gay in the East Block and grew up gay in the UK... even though the latter had a much more safe experience in "coming out" in both cases it was equally difficult informing the father (for these examples) that "I am gay."


There has been some recent civil unrest in France...

There has been some rain in the rainforest as well. ;)

They whine about raised gas prices. When I lived in Paris they had civil unrest on my street every thursday all year round. LOL.


Ultimately, one's current state of affairs is not an indicator for anything except for one's current state of affairs.

Yes, and as the waves go up and down the best thing (to avoid a change of attitude, unless a change for the better) is to learn to surf. Ride those currents.


And yet, all in All, the mystery remains The Mystery.

Amen to that.

:p

Andro
12-02-2018, 04:53 PM
And on the other hand...

Screw The Natural Law!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJFtMG17O1Q&fbclid

Florius Frammel
12-02-2018, 05:57 PM
And on the other hand...

Screw The Natural Law!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJFtMG17O1Q&fbclid

LOL! What is the name of this film?

And It's nice to see you're still writing about practical alchemy ;)

I liked that previous post of yours too. The quality of the discussions really improved since friday imo. Though I understand one can feel the need to not always explain himself, it's sometimes actually a good thing. At least in this case it is. A forum is a discussion board after all, which also lives from different viewpoints, which are nurtered by further explanation, which can lead to the knowledge that the viewpoints are not so different at all or in some cases that they are. Or in the best case, lead to all new insights. It's immanent in these kind of media so to say.

And though some spend a lot of their time "on their own" while meditating, doing drugs, or oob travels and the like (with which I must confess I have not much experience with), we're all social lifeforms too.

And yes I have had prejudices and may still have, because I know people who are doing these kind of "practices" and then start to be only concerned about themselves and give a fuck about others anymore. Without being a hardcore christian, I am sometimes missing that concept of charity when it comes to these kinds of "enlightenment practices/institutions/religions". Of course you don't necesserily need to meditate to be an asshole imo ;)

That's maybe one of the issues too, some have with that concept of losing your memory after death or re-birth (to get back to the topic of this thread). The total loss of your beloved ones and your social surrounding. I see that some may be training exactly this when meditating and be prepared when it's time.

Kibric
12-03-2018, 07:04 AM
For the record gold diamonds jewels are worthless to most on the path of Dao.
There are so many spiritual aspirants and alchemists to who find gold useless to.
Not because gold has no value but because gold has no real value outside civilisation. A civilisation seen as a deception.
Its a tool and a dependency within civilisation, something monks wanted to live without,
so they left and endeavoured to live without it. Freedom to them. Gold becomes just another rock.
Whether you like it or not most of the worlds immortality practices ( alchemy to ) came from men preoccupied with non-materialistic world view.
Men were after immortality free from bondage, that included money.
The desire for riches has always been seen morally as unhealthy, this is not because the riches themselves are bad
but because the desire for them can cloud a persons morality.
Gold is just a rock, within civilisation it can do good for people or bad for them, outside of civilisation it's pretty useless.
So to most seeking immortality ( who end up outside civilisation ) its not important.

elixirmixer
12-04-2018, 09:16 PM
Gold does have many uses that are outside of the scope of a currency. Gold plated omputer and audio connectors are used because of the perfect data transfer. Gold foil is used in space travel for various shielding applications. Sir issac Newton died praparing a type of 'golden glass' such as is written about in Revelations. This gold glass could have very interesting properties that we do not yet understand. And then of course there is the spagyric 'Oil of Gold' which has actually been pushed through clinical trials buy Robert A Bartlett and was lroven to improve blood chemistry!!

Just to name a few examples. Its sad that the stuff is just being stockpiled by the wealthy and not really being used for its good purposes.

... oh.. and another JDP banning. Sigh... some people can just never change their ways.... lol.

I hope he publishes his book on transmutations one day.

Seth-Ra
12-05-2018, 05:51 AM
Gold does have many uses that are outside of the scope of a currency. Gold plated omputer and audio connectors are used because of the perfect data transfer. Gold foil is used in space travel for various shielding applications. Sir issac Newton died praparing a type of 'golden glass' such as is written about in Revelations. This gold glass could have very interesting properties that we do not yet understand. And then of course there is the spagyric 'Oil of Gold' which has actually been pushed through clinical trials buy Robert A Bartlett and was lroven to improve blood chemistry!!

Just to name a few examples. Its sad that the stuff is just being stockpiled by the wealthy and not really being used for its good purposes.

... oh.. and another JDP banning. Sigh... some people can just never change their ways.... lol.

I hope he publishes his book on transmutations one day.


Its only really valuable valuable to those of us who know how to work with it, open it, extract from it, use its like to draw more like, kill it and reanimate it higher than before, etc etc, etc
To the rest, its just a shiny rock that idiots covet due to the illusionary value of "money", and again, "shininess" which, to some, errantly equates to "prestige". lol :rolleyes:

Its not necessary, and for all intents and purposes, is a more complicated way of doing things... "way of the rich" and all that. Good for showcasing of Principles. Such can be done more easily elsewhere.

That being said, I enjoy it - much as I used to enjoy working with the roses and acorns when I was younger and more broke. lol
Personal calling and genuine enjoyment is the only reason to pursue any particular path. The rest is empty, and its all fleeting. (which is half the fun. :D )

With that; life is fleeting, and yet already continuous. You change forms, you don't really die.
We ate from the tree of knowledge... they took the tree of life away... but with the right knowledge (gnosis/Da'at), we see we didn't need it anyway. We move from form to form, like a snake shedding its skin. A micro of the Macro. Immortality, physically, on this and every other realm, is at hand. Just takes the eyes to see it. ;)



~Seth-Ra

Warmheart
12-15-2018, 02:50 PM
We ate from the tree of knowledge... they took the tree of life away... but with the right knowledge (gnosis/Da'at), we see we didn't need it anyway. We move from form to form, like a snake shedding its skin. A micro of the Macro. Immortality, physically, on this and every other realm, is at hand. Just takes the eyes to see it. ;)
Immortality presumes at least that once you achieved something, you won't have to achieve it again.

E.g., a lot of countries have absurd anti-humane military law - you need to serve in army away from your family for at least a year. Usually you have to eat low quality intoxicated food and have to deal with low-minded individuals, harsh, rude and aggressive. Once it was about to happen to me, I decided that I will finish my life but I won't allow such monstrosity, which is basically arrest for over 1 year and constant humiliation (especially if to consider that I am gay). I managed to solve this issue by a help of good medics.

But now when suicidal thoughts come into my head, I shrug them off, realizing that if I reincarnate there is big probability that I will have to meet all those horrors again, that I have to visit that cesspool which is school and similar social institutes if not worse, I could grow on streets (in third world country).

Seth-Ra, you speak about these things in such a relaxed manner because you NEVER truly experienced Death being near you, you never had to consider putting end to your life because of horrific life circumstances. But once you combine it with "immortality with reincarnation" you will receive sadism being taken in absolute - having to deal with terrific shit again and again and again and yet again.
-----------------------
People can simulate how good is "immortality in reincarnation". Give away everything you have (even your last underpants), save money only for one-way ticket to some third world country (preferably the one with ongoing war, e. g. Syria). Burn all the bridges with all your relatives and friends. There you go - simulation of "immortality in reincarnation". Lots of "fun", isn't it? :)

I will give 1 billion USD to everyone here who will die and them come back to me from afterlife. But first, they need to give me all their current belongings :) I think it is very good deal, I doubt we have dollar billionaires here, everyone can participate, I will be able to find these money for everyone who will prove me that I am wrong and that they are actually immortal and death is just minor issue :)

Andro
12-15-2018, 03:50 PM
Seth-Ra, you speak about these things in such a relaxed manner because you NEVER truly experienced Death being near you,
Actually, he (Seth-Ra) DID experience death near him. He will elaborate if he wants to. Don't know about the rest.

Awani
12-15-2018, 06:25 PM
Actually, he (Seth-Ra) DID experience death near him. He will elaborate if he wants to. Don't know about the rest.

Warmheart claimed similar things about me. Perhaps knowledge of other peoples experiences should be kept to a minimum.

Also it is all about attitudes. I have met, and are friends with, a lot of people that have a very positive outlook on life and next life... regardless of the horrors they have gone through.

:p

Andro
12-15-2018, 07:53 PM
I strangely somewhat agree with both Awani and Warmheart :)

I (mostly) DO see this "realm" as a backstabbing cacophony of rotten zombie shit, but this does not negate the necessity of having a "positive" outlook with regard to what one needs/wants to accomplish here.

Awani
12-15-2018, 09:25 PM
I strangely somewhat agree with both Awani and Warmheart :)

I (mostly) DO see this "realm" as a backstabbing cacophony of rotten zombie shit, but this does not negate the necessity of having a "positive" outlook with regard to what one needs/wants to accomplish here.

In this instance I only agree with Awani. :)

I see this world as an initiation... and the "harder" the experience hopefully the "greater" the initiation. It is all temporary anyway...


People can simulate how good is "immortality in reincarnation". Give away everything you have (even your last underpants), save money only for one-way ticket to some third world country (preferably the one with ongoing war, e. g. Syria). Burn all the bridges with all your relatives and friends. There you go - simulation of "immortality in reincarnation". Lots of "fun", isn't it? :)

I will give 1 billion USD to everyone here who will die and them come back to me from afterlife. But first, they need to give me all their current belongings :) I think it is very good deal, I doubt we have dollar billionaires here, everyone can participate, I will be able to find these money for everyone who will prove me that I am wrong and that they are actually immortal and death is just minor issue :)

This argument is as valid - from my perspective - as the argument that "if this reality is an illusion jump of a cliff then". I don't think you have perceived the "concept" put forward or you wouldn't compose such a statement. To me what you suggest sounds ridiculous. I think you need to re-phrase above quote in order for me to comment on it "better", because as it is written now I cannot.

:p

Warmheart
12-16-2018, 02:50 AM
Keeping only "positive" outlook on life/death it is like accepting the problem as something natural and doing nothing about it. It is like letting your cat alone for a walk where hundreds of fierce hounds are constantly around, and getting a "positive" outlook about that, basically dooming your cat and doing nothing about if it dies (which is mostly assured to happen) or not.

My examples and words perhaps were too harsh and severe, but one thing is to talk about death when everything in your life is ok, the other thing is to talk about it having been constantly near death and constantly getting low blows from this world. Experience is entirely different and totally unlikable. And some specific things can turn this life in utter soul-destroying Hell, because they totally murder hope. It seems that some people get lucky and didn't experience this REAL Hell on this Earth, but that's just makes them armchair experts (and that's why I am offering to get real experience first, like with simulating reincarnation in my post above, which is one of many ways to get direct experience on the subject, but people will find 1000 reasons to not do that and continue to speak about how they adore "reincarnation" and how it is a good thing and how it brings quality experience).

This is part of what Ancient Knowledge is about - getting out of control of death. It would be good to come closer to this topic. I think that if people believe in inherent immortality, adore idea of reincarnation and other such things, with all their knowledge being based mostly on pure faith, they better stick with churches and other brainwashing institutes.

So let's come closer to the topic of this thread: Physical Immortality. Let's discuss things like what Kibric mentioned about immortality via elements, getting care of your skin by the help of methylene blue and stuff like this. There are many interesting researches and ways about that with whole Traditions being based around that. While "inherent immortality" is bullshit which was produced by world religions, when they were bathing other nations in blood and destroying their legacy, spreading rotten words about god, divinity and death after life, with stupid New Age receiving their relay in spreading lies and profanation.

I need to remind people here that Alchemy is also directly connected with physical immortality. I am not speaking about New Age idiotic version of "alchemy" and imbeciles like Karl Jung. I see people don't like New Age but they still cling to its rotten ideas. I think that people should read more classic books and less crap which was published in the last 2-3 centuries to return back on track. I also can't recommend Rene Guenon enough (which is one of few exceptions to the rule of "2-3 centuries"), though I don't really like his chosen way, but he was clearly explaining difference between rotten new age, demonic science of modern mankind and authentic Knowledge, so his books will be of great help to those who are lost in "immortality in reincarnations", "inherent immortality of soul", "we choose our parents" and other bizarre New Age ideas.

black
12-16-2018, 04:06 AM
Hi Warmheart

Are you suggesting that Alchemy might open a doorway out of this hell ?