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True Initiate
03-21-2018, 08:36 AM
Logistical Note: Continued from HERE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2071-Spiritus-Mundi&p=56162#post56162).
________________________________


I need to translate it first. But if you want it I hope to get it done in the next few days. Maybe longer.

I have that book but Bernhard Beyer has translated only the first two steps of that process and he skipped the rest. In the 8th degree there was a recipe for "Elixir of Life" and Bernhard Beyer skipped it too!
The original documents containing all the secrets of Golden R+C which Bernhard Beyer found were destroyed in bombing raids during WW2.

There are only two copies left in the world that i know of of complete secrets of Golden R+C. If you guys are interested i could dig up their exact locations but it will cost you a pretty penny to get them scanned.


✂-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Andro
03-21-2018, 09:02 AM
it will cost you a pretty penny to get them scanned.

We've crowdfunded stuff before. We can do it again :)

Florius Frammel
03-21-2018, 09:33 AM
We've crowdfunded stuff before. We can do it again :)

Would be interesting indeed. Maybe I am in. But the reason why Beyer only gave (in my book three) two steps is, that he found out that the rosicrucians just copied the practical work out of widely available old alchemy books. Unfortunately he doesn't tell from which ones. The Compass of the Wise and the Aurea Catena Homeri are one of the main influences of the rosicrucians in Germany, according to Beyer. These instructions at least in that detail however are not found in these books.

True Initiate
03-21-2018, 09:35 AM
We've crowdfunded stuff before. We can do it again :)

This could end up in hundreds of dollars just for the MS in handwritten old german which i can't read, then we would need to pay a transcriber to convert it into modern german and finally a translator for the english version.

I've been through all of this before with Aleilius and his publishings and it is a very costly endeavour.

Florius Frammel
03-21-2018, 09:41 AM
This could end up in hundreds of dollars just for the MS in handwritten old german which i can't read, then we would need to pay a transcriber to convert it into modern german and finally a translator for the english version.

I've been through all of this before with Aleilius and his publishings and it is a very costly endeavour.

I'd really like to see this handwriting, maybe it is not so complicated for a native. These manuscripts should not be so old that there are complicated grammer issues. The deciphering of the handwriting -if bad- would be a bigger problem.

And the instructions are not very long. I could transcribe some if I could read it. Maybe I could do some translation work as well but I won't be fast.

Andro
03-21-2018, 10:08 AM
This could end up in hundreds of dollars just for the MS in handwritten old german which i can't read, then we would need to pay a transcriber to convert it into modern german and finally a translator for the english version.

Gonna make a new thread for this.

At how much would you estimate the total cost of this operation?


The deciphering of the handwriting -if bad- would be a bigger problem.

This could indeed be the biggest challenge...

True Initiate
03-21-2018, 10:55 AM
At how much would you estimate the total cost of this operation?


It all depends on the people who are in possesion of those MS. My suggestion is to only cherry pick few Chapters left out from Berhard Beyer's book for those manuscripts in order to reduce the cost.

Let's start with the good news. The first group of people who are in posession of those documents are swedish branch of modern R+C
https://rosae-crucis.net/eng/

I swapped few manuscripts with Tommy Westlund for the instruction of the 4th grade on how to prepare a stone according to the wet way. If you manage to persuade them verbally maybe you could obtain them for free.

For more information check this doc:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/jxap2si2x4kbi3b/gurc.pdf

True Initiate
03-21-2018, 11:06 AM
The second location of MS is the german secret archives institute:
https://www.gsta.spk-berlin.de/

The exact MS number you can find in a book called:
https://s9.postimg.org/evca590qj/content.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/evca590qj/)
https://books.google.at/books/about/Religion_Und_Arkane_Hierarchie.html?id=Xg2y4O6BMxY C&redir_esc=y

Luckily i have a pdf copy of this book but since most of you don't speak german it's useless for you.:cool:

Florius Frammel
03-21-2018, 12:17 PM
The second location of MS is the german secret srchives institute:
https://www.gsta.spk-berlin.de/

The exact MS number you can find in a book called:
https://s9.postimg.org/evca590qj/content.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/evca590qj/)
https://books.google.at/books/about/Religion_Und_Arkane_Hierarchie.html?id=Xg2y4O6BMxY C&redir_esc=y

Luckily i have a pdf copy of this book but since most of you don't speak german it's useless for you.:cool:

Can I have it please?

Andro
03-21-2018, 12:23 PM
Luckily i have a pdf copy of this book but since most of you don't speak German it's useless for you.:cool:

It may be useful to a handful of people here... Myself included :)

Andro
03-21-2018, 12:34 PM
The second location of MS is the German secret archives institute:
https://www.gsta.spk-berlin.de/

You're could PM me the full title (in German) and the MS number if so inclined (or even post them publicly), I live in Berlin and I could go there in person and check at least if it's available for scanning and if the quality of the calligraphy is readable-decent...

Even if it doesn't "fully deliver" on the "big secrets" of the practical work (I suspect it doesn't), it would still be a valuable addition to our available database.

Awani
03-21-2018, 01:00 PM
...since most of you don't speak german it's useless for you...

Don't be too sure. I don't think English only speakers are the majority here. Also reading a language is different than speaking or writing. Personally I can read way more languages than I can speak. Write I only master two. For more advanced texts google translate goes a long way.

:p

True Initiate
03-21-2018, 01:17 PM
Ok, Andro and Florius Frammel check your pm boxes. The exact address of those MS is buried in the book somewhere but i am busy today to search it myself. I am jumping in and out discussion every 1 hour when i take a 5 minute break.

Andro
03-21-2018, 01:33 PM
The second location of MS is the German secret archives institute:
https://www.gsta.spk-berlin.de/

Even their street address is "Archive Street (https://www.google.de/maps/place/Archivstra%C3%9Fe,+14195+Berlin/@52.4613669,13.2899651,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47a85a717106df09:0x566a9 cddf69a0869!8m2!3d52.4613669!4d13.2921538)"... Those guys aren't kidding :)

alfr
03-21-2018, 01:36 PM
beyr grade golden rc
HI tp very good idea very interesting very good idea to complete the book of beyer me too i am agree in this new projet of scannig all document and after made a transcription and translation the part that that beyer not have transcription

I am also happy to share the project of scanning and translating RC documents and transcribing and translating missing parts
excellent sign me among the participants in the project I very gladly join the
tp very good idea

regard

Andro
03-21-2018, 01:39 PM
I can work the Berlin angle. May take a while, but sounds like a worthy project.

Perhaps Mr. Awani would be so kind as to work the Swedish angle?


The first group of people who are in possession of those documents are Swedish branch of modern R+C
https://rosae-crucis.net/eng/

I swapped few manuscripts with Tommy Westlund for the instruction of the 4th grade on how to prepare a stone according to the wet way. If you manage to persuade them verbally maybe you could obtain them for free.

For more information check this doc:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/jxap2si2x4kbi3b/gurc.pdf

True Initiate
03-21-2018, 02:13 PM
For those who don't know all the details the first 3 degree of Golden R+C you can find in this book translated by RAMs which was originally published in 19th century by someone who found the instructions accidentally on a train:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/6txlbu6k9yn6e4e/THEORICUS_original.PDF

The instructions begin on page 33, just skip the first first 32 pages!

The instructions are identical with those MS translated by Bernhard Beyer. Bernhard Beyer has translated most of the initiation rituals of all 9 degrees but he skipped the practical alchemy instructions to our great disadvantage.

Florius Frammel
03-21-2018, 03:22 PM
@Andro
It is GStA PK, FM, 5.2 D34 Nr. 1723: 5. Grad Minor

How the lab should look like is to be found here:

GStA PK, FM, 5.1.4 Nr. 4240: Varia zur Rosenkreuzerey

Other interesting sources (too many to post them all here) I found in the book:

Recipe for the antimonial tincture:
Federico Gualdi, Composizione della medicina universale
(Should be found in an italian library)

Tinctura Macrocosmi
GStA PK, FM, 5.2 D34 Nr. 1780

@True Initiate: Thanks!

Andro
03-21-2018, 03:36 PM
@Andro

It is GStA PK, FM, 5.2 D34 Nr. 1723: 5. Grad Minor

How the lab should look like is to be found here:

GStA PK, FM, 5.1.4 Nr. 4240: Varia zur Rosenkreuzerey

Other interesting sources (too many to post them all here) I found in the book:

Tinctura Macrocosmi
GStA PK, FM, 5.2 D34 Nr. 1780

So these Manuscripts are supposedly all found in the "Secret Archives" in Berlin? Are those the Ms numbers I should be looking/asking for?

PS: I am also posting during/between work sessions, so I don't always reply in "real time".

Florius Frammel
03-21-2018, 03:49 PM
Yes, you should get the manuscripts with those codes. There are a lot of other interesting manuscripts concerning our topic at around similar code numbers, just look into the book TI sent us. But I guess we should focus on the 5. Grad Minor as it deals with the the Spritus Mundi -or at least gives detailled instructions about how to work with the setup some of you posted in that thread. Besides, even the three steps Beyer describes are already so clear and useful to find out if there is anything worthwhile in that process.

Edit: Andro, if you go there and you happen to have the chance to make a pic of one page with your mobile, it could be helpful.

Maybe a good starting point when discussing with the swedish guys would be to offer the possibility of a transcribtion and translation of those parts for free, if it is possible to read it.

True Initiate
03-21-2018, 04:29 PM
Florius if you could locate instruction for the 8th degree on how to prepare the "Elixir if life". I only know that this specific instruction was given to the 8th graders.
Sometimes there were special instructions given only to some members of the order but not to the others. Each grade contained general and secret special instructions.

Florius Frammel
03-21-2018, 04:34 PM
GStA PK, FM, 5.2 D34 Nr. 1745: 8. Grad

It is described being pretty long, exhausting and repetitive. With the need of lots of chemicals and time. It is also reported that some lost their life in doing this work. Therefore learned doctors, pharmacists and other experienced "chymists" were allowed to join the orders for free (but had to help the others avoiding injuries and deaths).

Edit: Andro, it is not necessary to look for the manuscript described as "how a lab should look like", as it is useless and already can be found at Beyer.

True Initiate
03-21-2018, 05:03 PM
Thank you so much! Yes, there are very grim stories in that book, suicides and the story of a young man looking for sternschnuppen (stardust) for months on end without finding them which is believed to be a form of algae. You can find the complete instruction in the 7th degree in the book by Bernhard Beyer.

I would love so much to read the instruction for the "elixir of life". I remember few years ago when i was reading Berhard Beyers book for the first time and realized that he has skipped the actual instruction i hurled the book at the wall in pure anger since i knew that original MS were already destroyed and that it would be almost impossible to find another copy (which i later did) but i got caught up in other things and never got one.

I almost forgot about all this...

Florius Frammel
03-21-2018, 05:32 PM
Thank you so much! Yes, there are very grim stories in that book, suicides and the story of a young man looking for sternschnuppen (stardust) for months on end without finding them which is believed to be a form of algae. You can find the complete instruction in the 7th degree in the book by Bernhard Beyer.

I would love so much to read the instruction for the "elixir of life". I remember few years ago when i was reading Berhard Beyers book for the first time and realized that he has skipped the actual instruction i hurled the book at the wall in pure anger since i knew that original MS were already destroyed and that it would be almost impossible to find another copy (which i later did) but i got caught up in other things and never got one.

I almost forgot about all this...

I found out about Beyer when reading the book "Die Erleuchteten" by Karl Frick which is a huge work about occult circles from ancient to recent times. Frick skipped all the instruction though and said they are found in said book by Beyer. To my own surprise there I found out that the first step of the 5th grade was a clear description of the work with that kind of setup mentioned in some posts of the spiritus mundi thread, so I posted it there.

Does anyone have a digital copy of Beyers work? That would be helpful too.

True Initiate
03-21-2018, 05:45 PM
I don't have digital version of Beyers book but maybe Alexbr has it. I think this MS deals also with Spiritus Mundi but i can barely read it.

Update:
I have found the transcription of the text on my hardrive from years ago:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/q99i0d85crs5c5f/Transkription.docx

https://s9.postimg.org/4reu0tm4b/image.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/4reu0tm4b/)https://s9.postimg.org/g3rfim2iz/image.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/g3rfim2iz/)https://s9.postimg.org/w2058rrm3/image.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/w2058rrm3/)https://s9.postimg.org/o99hgsdx7/image.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/o99hgsdx7/)

Andro
03-21-2018, 06:04 PM
I have found the transcription of the text on my hard drive from years ago:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/q99i0d85crs5c5f/Transkription.docx

From what I've read so far, the practical part includes a combination of the "Lana Terzi" method and some elements from the solar way in Hyle & Cohyle.

True Initiate
03-21-2018, 06:07 PM
I realize now that this text is identical with the one in "Hyle and Coahyl" by Jacob Juran.
Go to page 59:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/riugm4aa41bt6de/HYLEUNDCOAHYL_original.PDF

Update:

Yes, you are right. It is from Jacob Juran

alfr
03-21-2018, 08:17 PM
hi to all
yes TP I have a version of the original German beyer and also the translation inferioris superioris hermetis which is a chapter of the thesauro of darmstad but I have it in italian

send me emails I send them but anyway (if I can) now I try to attach them here too
.................................................
salve a tuti si TP ho versione del beyer originale tedesco e anche della traduzione inferioris superioris hermetis che è un capitolo del thesauro di darmstad ma la ho in italiano

mandatemi email che li invio ma comunque (se ci riesco )ora cerco di allegarle qui anche

regard

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

ps

"Die Erleuchteten" it is all the collection texts all very interesting we have of it audio translation i hope some edition it in english because all texts of this collection are very interesting

Michael Sternbach
03-21-2018, 09:02 PM
@True Initiate

Can I have it too? Please? :)

BTW, I happen to be a native German speaker.

Awani
03-21-2018, 10:56 PM
Perhaps Mr. Awani would be so kind as to work the Swedish angle?

Not sure what I could do? I have nothing to offer them. I can write a message in Swedish if someone thinks that would entice them more (which I doubt, since Swedish culture has more respect for an "international" thing rather than a "domestic" thing... also all Swedes know English.

On a personal note R+C old or modern seems, to me, to be a bunch of fluffy bunnies.* LOL. :)

:p

* in relation to "practical alchemy" that is...

True Initiate
03-22-2018, 07:09 AM
Not sure what I could do? I have nothing to offer them.[/I]

You can offer them a nice red mushroom or your urine after you've taken it.

Awani
03-22-2018, 01:14 PM
It's hard to offer something that grows everywhere around here. LOL.

:p

Florius Frammel
03-23-2018, 02:53 PM
Sorry, I erred!
I don't have three but only two steps of the fifth grade like all of you having Beyers book.

alfr
03-23-2018, 03:50 PM
Beyer manuscripts and 5 degree rc and the 2 instructions water sky and earth

yes also the instruction to prepare the earth is the 5th degree rc partially that was partially transcribed by the beyer
I as I said I have pdf in Italian and I have already sent elixirmixer tp and Florius Frammel of which I have had an email address
who wants to contact me but
thanks to the help and guidance for as use mediafire of them today if I can (I have to study mediafire their instructions on how to do) I enclose if I can here the original of the beyer that unfortunately is very heavy 122.8 MB I can not attach in a simple email -

now as you can see the instruction of the 5th degree rc attached to it below in Italian here (unfortunately I only translated it into Italian)
-nb the istruction on as collect the gras land as say well tp it is connection and very similar and a part at the istruction of the land of thesauro thesaurorum rc as say well tp-

but as you see it is it very incomplete, in fact, as we can see then how to proceed later both for the collection of water and in the earth's instruction is incomplete and in fact in the text of the 5th degree it is said that this water thus collected will be used subsequently in the other successive degrees of the rc but being the following rc grades, even incomplete ones, unfortunately it is not specified how to continue the operational processes and that makes it very interesting therefore to acquire and translate from the original manuscripts the missing parts of the 5th degree and the remaining degrees where it should taught what to do and how to further treat this water and tere collected
and therefore from what I think it is important to recover the scanning of all the manuscripts of the various grades from which he partially copied the beyer and finally then with the complete degrees that are as we saw in the archives of Berlin once we have all the original manuscripts in hand (and we count them all on andro and his reconnaissance to see costs scans of all the various degrees missing) we could then having everything in hand and evaluating everything well then translate only the part and the various missing instructions and so to have the complete work that according to my imho , the whole manuscript is very interesting


......here the instruction on water air 5 grade rc in italian...................

qui in italiano istruzione grado 5

Nel manoscritto seguono ora 10 ricette d’operazioni alchemiche. Ritengo superfluo ripetere queste letteralmente qui nel nostro trattato, visto che sono molto semplici e privi di valore e visto che rappresentano solo delle scopiazzature da stampe alchemiche. Nonostante ciò vi farò conoscere i primi 2 Labor, visto che sono degli esempi eccellenti. Sono raccolti sotto il titolo di “Processus Ex Rore Coeli et Pinguidine Terrae” e sono introdotte con le seguenti parole:
“Un fratello o adepto chiamato a fare quest’opera santa deve, prima di iniziare la sua operazione, sapere e comprendere cosa sono la rugiada (tau) del cielo e la fertilità della terra; in modo da non confondersi, e che non prenda un quid pro quo. Ma qui sotto non vogliamo specificare il Tau (rugiada) che si coagula mentre cade, ed in quell’attimo si specifica a metà con ciò che tocca; e non vogliamo mostrarvi neanche la fertilità della terra nel suo insieme, bensì vi mos3remo il puro Spiritum Mundi, e il puro Sal Terrae, così come lo abbiamo compreso noi.”

Labor I mus oppure l’attrazione dello spirito – aria.

Per primo il dignitoso fratello deve scegliersi un appartamento libero, anche un po’ alto e sempre pieno d’aria fresca, e nello stesso deve predisporre una stanza che ha la finestra rivolta verso oriente: in questa stanza tutte le aperture devono essere chiuse e solo in un'unica finestra rivolta verso oriente deve essere tolto il vetro, o se ha delle persiane di legno, all’interno di esse deve essere fatto un buco, con il diametro di una pentola, in esso deve essere inserito dall’esterno un grande imbuto ut Lit. A. (vedi figura pag. 215) di vetro o di latta bianca, sopra all’imbuto deve pendere un coperchio di piombo B., il quale si tira su con una corda in caso di aria pura, ma durante il brutto tempo lo si può far cadere. All’es3mità di quest’imbuto si mette un tubo, dello stesso materiale lungo un cubito Lit. C., che si appuntisce, e finisce nel canale del bulbo tubolare Lit. D., che deve essere fornito da un ampio coperchio Lit. E., dal quale il becco finisce nella Lit. F, il bulbo poggia su una “capelle” di sabbia terrena Lit. G su 2 ( vedi a pag. 215 primo rigo) e questo poggia su di un piccolo forno Lit. H. così come mostra chiaramente la figura qui sotto.

Vedi figura pag. 215.

Se l’aria è pura e frasca, il coperchio dell’imbuto viene tirato su, e nel forno viene messo un po’ di fuoco; in maniera che la cenere raggiunga solo il calore del primo grado di un B.M.; così questo calor attirerà a se, come un Attarctivum invisibile, con grande violenza, lo spirito della terra che si nasconde dai nostri occhi, trasformandolo in una figura di Acqua e rendendolo afferrabile.
Se l’aria però dovesse essere non fresca o temperata bensì carda ed afosa, allora si dovrà mettere invece che cenere, del Sal Comunis in una scodella di stagno e questa deve essere appoggiata su del ghiaccio dove avrà lo stesso effetto come se fosse appoggiata su del fuoco.
NB.. Questa operazione deve iniziare al sorgere del sole, e deve essere terminata alla 9 ° ora.
Dopo che il fratello dignitoso ha raccolto una grande quantità di questo tipo, esso deve essere messo in dei bicchieri con dei tappi a vite, e deve essere conservato fino al suo utilizzo in un luogo fresco; i bicchieri però devono essere riempiti fino all’orlo; perché altrimenti questo spirito che rende vivo, inizierebbe la sua circolazione nello spazio vuoto e nello stesso modo influirebbe sulla terra durante la creazione dentro e fuori dall’acqua, visto che lo spirito di Dio fruttua su di esso, e allo stesso modo quest’innominabile Quintum esse diverrebbe come un dominatore della bella figlia di Dio, vale a dire la natura, che però l’attrazione dello spirito dovrebbe essere intrapresa durante i primi mesi balsamici Maggio e Giugno, a questo punto consigliamo al fratello di terminare il primo Labor, e di passare dal Keter al Chochma.

Labor II dus. La raccolta della terra vergine.

Questo dovrebbe accadere quasi contemporaneamente a quello precedente, come segue: Dopo che il fratello dignitoso ha liberato la sua proprietà dai tronchi e dal muschio, riempendola con del terreno nero o rosso, naturalmente che si trova verso oriente e nel quale comunque si trovano dei bei fiori appartenenti alla natura, un prato, oppure un giardino di grande qualità, lui si dirige di mattina presto, quando il tempo e chiaro e puro, prima dell’alba, verso il posto stabilito, scava fino a sotto le radici vegetali, ad una profondità di circa 5 spanne, e versa 5 libra di questa terra, con una paletta di legno, in un contenitore di vetro, ci mette subito sopra un coperchio, in modo che non possa mescolarsi con esso niente di eterogeneo, e continua in questo modo: Questa terra deve essere stesa su una grande, o più piccole, e molto piatte ciotole di terra oppure di vetro, con una larghezza di un dito, e deve essere conservata in un posto lontano dal vento, pioggia e sole, in modo da attirare lo spirito dell’aria, e come espressione dell’umidità terrena, quando il tempo è brutto, cioè aria umida, pioggia, tempesta e temporale, deve essere coperta con delle campane o ciotole di vetro, e possono essere scoperte solo quando il cielo è puro.
Quando si è continuato così per tutto il mese di maggio e giugno, questa terra viene poi fatta passare attraverso un setaccio di capelli non troppo sottile, in modo da essere pulito in caso di ghiaia o sabbia, perché altrimenti se questa terra indurita diventasse sabbia o pietra, e lo spirito del mondo ne sciogliesse troppo, alla fine del processo questo essere sporco di sabbia, po3bbe causare una specie di vetro, influendo anche sull’opera e provocare dei danni.-

Vedi Disegno a pag.217 e pag. 218

Nel manoscritto seguono ancora: 3 . “La prima congiunzione e pu3fazione caotica”; 4. “La Solutio et Resolutio Terrae nel B.M.”; 5. “ L’astrazione completa per gradus nella sabbia”; 6. “La Dephlegmation del Menstrui nel B.M.”; 7. “La Calcinatio Terrae et Extractio Salis”; 8. “ La Conjunctio, et Plusquamperfectio Solis ad Lapidem”; 10. “ La Multiplication e Projection”.-


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::

beyer manoscritti e 5 grado rc e le 2 istruzioni acquai cielo e terra

si anche l'istruzione per preparare la terra è il 5 grado rc parzialmente che fu parzialmente trascritto dal beyer
io come ho detto ho pdf in italiano e lo ho gia inviato elixirmixer tp e Florius Frammel di cui ho avuto indizzi email
chi lo vuole mi contatti ma
grazie all'aiuto e indicazioni di loro su usare mediafire oggi se ci riesco( devo studiare le loro su mediafire indicazioni di come fare) allego se riesco qui l'originale del beyer che purtroppo è molto pesante 122,8 MB non riesco ad allegare in una email semplice -

ora come si vede l'istruzione del 5 grado rc lo allegata qui sotto in italiano qui (unfortunately I only translated it into Italian)
-nb the istruction on as collect the gras land as say well tp it is connection and very similar and a part at the istruction of the land of thesauro thesaurorum rc as say well tp -

ma come si vede essa è molto incompleta infatti come si vede poi come procedere successivamente sia per la raccolta dell'acqua sia nella istruzione della terra è incompleta e infatti nel testo del 5 grado si dice che questa acqua cosi raccolta verrà usata successivamente negli altri gradi successivi dei rc ma essendo i gradi successivi rc anche essi incompleti purtroppo non è specificato come proseguire il processi operativi e cio rende molto interessante dunque di acquisire e di tradurre dai manoscritti originali le parti mancanti del 5 grado e dei restanti gradi dove dovrebbe insegnato cosa fare e come trattare ulteriormente questa acqua e tere raccolte
e dunque da cio secondo me è importante recuperate la scannerizzazione di tutto i manoscritti dei vari gradi da cui parzialmente ha copiato il beyer e finalmente poi coi gradi completi che sono come abbiamo visto all'archivio di berlino una volta che avremo tutti i manoscritti originali in mano (e li contiamo tutti su andro e sua ricognizione per vedere costi scannerizzazioni di tutti vari gradi mancanti) potremmo poi avendo in mano tutto e valutando bene tutto poi tradurre solo le parte e le varie istruzioni mancanti e cosi da avere l'opera completa che secondo il mio avviso è molto interessante tutto il manoscritto

garvolt2002
03-23-2018, 11:34 PM
Here is a link to the German Version of the Dr. Bernh. Beyer.
http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht?PPN=PPN818443383&PHYSID=PHYS_0005&view=fulltext-parallel&DMDID=DMDLOG_0001
It comprised of 13 pdf's. I created a single book using adobe acrobat full version.
The Golden Rosy Cross link
http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht?PPN=PPN818702613&PHYSID=PHYS_0007&DMDID=DMDLOG_0001

True Initiate
03-23-2018, 11:41 PM
So our Dr. Beyer was in fact a freemasonic scholar? Very interesting, this explains a few things.

Thanks

Andro
03-24-2018, 05:43 AM
Here is a link to the German Version of the Dr. Bernh. Beyer.
http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berl...ID=DMDLOG_0001 (http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht?PPN=PPN818443383&PHYSID=PHYS_0005&view=fulltext-parallel&DMDID=DMDLOG_0001)
It comprised of 13 pdf's. I created a single book using adobe acrobat full version.
The Golden Rosy Cross link
http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berl...ID=DMDLOG_0001 (http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht?PPN=PPN818702613&PHYSID=PHYS_0007&DMDID=DMDLOG_0001)

The practical work of the 5th degree starts on page 224 (http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht?PPN=PPN818702613&PHYSID=PHYS_0222&DMDID=DMDLOG_0001) of the book (page 222 of the online document).

Thanks Garvolt!

But yes, only steps 1 & 2 are laid out in this document.

I wonder if the "Grade 5 Manuscript" in the Berlin "Secret Archive" contains the whole thing?

Guess I'll have to find out when I have time to go there in person...


✂-------------------------------------------------------------------------

elixirmixer
03-24-2018, 06:29 AM
Im sorry, FF, did you say you were Translating this text? or am i confused?

Florius Frammel
03-24-2018, 08:18 AM
Im sorry, FF, did you say you were Translating this text? or am i confused?

I gave a summary of the first step and you posted the second. If still necessary I can translate those two steps as they are written in the book.

elixirmixer
03-24-2018, 09:51 PM
The reason I ask this question is because i am working on getting some german speaking friends to translate it into english but i dont want to bother them with it if someone else is already doing it....

elixirmixer
03-24-2018, 09:53 PM
so as far as everyone is aware there is NO english translation anywhere in the world?

Its a big project and i dont want to mess them around for no reason

alfr
03-24-2018, 10:19 PM
beyer book rc translation in english

hi friend elixirmixer
Your efforts in research are very appreciable, and even more so because as you say you are young in this field
I do not have English translations, and I have never seen one in English or French

my best regard alfr
..........................
beyer book rc translation in english

hi friend elixirmixer
i tuoi sforzi nelle ricerche so molto apprezzabili e cio ancora di piu perche come dici tu sei giovane in questo campo
io traduzioni inglese purtroppo non la ho e mai ne ho vista una ne in inglese ne in francese

my best regad

elixirmixer
03-24-2018, 10:29 PM
Alfr (or anyone else) do you have a copy of Beyer in German in PDF format please. I cant seem to find a downloadable source and i need one to send it to my german friends.

garvolt2002
03-24-2018, 10:54 PM
I posted link on another thread.

Andro
03-24-2018, 11:14 PM
I posted link on another thread.

Do you mean this? It's on this thread right here, a little back - Post #35 (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5580-Manuscript-Quest-Secrets-Of-The-Golden-R-C&p=56264#post56264)


Here is a link to the German Version of the Dr. Bernh. Beyer.
http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht?PPN=PPN818443383&PHYSID=PHYS_0005&view=fulltext-parallel&DMDID=DMDLOG_0001
It comprised of 13 pdf's. I created a single book using adobe acrobat full version.
The Golden Rosy Cross link
http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht?PPN=PPN818702613&PHYSID=PHYS_0007&DMDID=DMDLOG_0001
_________________________________________


I cant seem to find a downloadable source.

But it doesn't seem to be downloadable as a whole. However, you can save every page as a separate image and then compile them all into one PDF.


http://forum.alchemyforums.com/null/2381f23e-b025-412f-ac75-a444ebbb1170

Aham
03-25-2018, 02:47 AM
But it doesn't seem to be downloadable as a whole. However, you can save every page as a separate image and then compile them all into one PDF.

I think it is downloadable as a book. Try the following instructions:

http://i.imgur.com/jdyc7QI.png



http://i.imgur.com/af8lioe.png



http://i.imgur.com/lFPRqpi.png



http://i.imgur.com/vvpdkbN.png


Hope this works :cool:

BTW, there's also a way to download just the section published by Beyer.

Florius Frammel
03-25-2018, 05:58 AM
The reason I ask this question is because i am working on getting some german speaking friends to translate it into english but i dont want to bother them with it if someone else is already doing it....

I won't translate the whole Beyer book.
And it is not really necessary imo. Save your money and time of your friends.
But I will help in completing the practical section(s) and translating them if we get the lost parts and someone is able to read the handwriting of those.

Luxus
03-27-2018, 01:08 PM
Where can I find a summery of the procedure in English, I just want to get an idea of what concepts they are working with.

Florius Frammel
03-27-2018, 04:35 PM
Where can I find a summery of the procedure in English, I just want to get an idea of what concepts they are working with.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2071-Spiritus-Mundi/page111

I wrote a summary of the first step and I guess elixirmixer let google translate the second. The processes -up to those steps at least- are quite similar like those from the sources True Initiate posted later in the same thread.

Andro
03-27-2018, 05:12 PM
Where can I find a summary of the procedure in English, I just want to get an idea of what concepts they are working with.

There is no known "official" translation to English. I guess what FF wrote above is the best you'll currently find.

I'm personally not desperate for those Ms, but I may check out the Berlin "Secret Archives" (when time permits) and report here what I find.

Florius Frammel
03-27-2018, 05:50 PM
There is no known "official" translation to English. I guess what FF wrote above is the best you'll currently find.

I'm personally not desperate for those Ms, but I may check out the Berlin "Secret Archives" (when time permits) and report here what I find.

What changed your opinion? I remember you organizing that quest and suggesting crowdfunding.

Andro
03-27-2018, 06:54 PM
What changed your opinion? I remember you organizing that quest and suggesting crowdfunding.

No matter the reason, it doesn't mean I won't go there and check it out, and if possible, make pics and send them to you.

Florius Frammel
04-20-2018, 10:51 AM
This is my translation of the text of the first Labor (5th Grade). As you will have noticed already, I am no professional or native english speaker/translator. But I hope it serves you better than Goolge Translate. It's very hard for me to translate these old texts, as they used very long passages between the sentences. I think that's pretty elegant (the sentences -not my translation) though I am not used to translate these kind of texts.

Text in square brackets are alternative words inserted by me to possibly provide a better understanding. The content in round brackets exists in the original text, but I failed to include it into the flow of the text.

Labor Imus or the attraction of the air-spirit

First the worthy brother has to choose [find] a habitation in a remote, free, slightly elevated place, always filled with fresh air, to prepare inside a comfortable room or chamber , in which exists a window to the Orient: In said chamber all openings have to be well closed and a pane taken out of the one single window pointing towards the Orient, or if there are wooden shutters, one has to cut out a round hole in the diameter of a pan in which is put a big funnel made of glass or white sheet (see Fig. A) from outside. Above the funnel must hang a leaden cover B., which has to be opened with a line when the air is pure and closed when the weather is cloudy. In the end of the funnel a pipe C. of the same Materia and the length of an arm that sharpens towards one end, has to be put, that leads into the canal of the tubulated flask Lit. D, where a wide helmet Lit. E has to be applicated, from which the snout goes into Lit. F. The flask lies in an earthen sand Capelle Lit. G on (symbol of tin), which is standing on a small iron oven Lit. H, like it is clearly shown in the drawing of the machines.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2hdwbol.jpg

If the air is clean and cool, the cover of the funnel will be opened and a gentle fire is made in the oven, so that the ash only reaches the warmth of the first grade of a B.M. Like this, these calor as an Attractivum will draw [suck] the earth-spiritum (which is hidden from our eyes) with great power and make it visible and touchable in aqua-form very quickly.
But should the air be not cool or tempered, but hot and humid, one must replace the ashes with Sal Communis that is put into a tinnen bowl placed on ice. This way the same effect like with the fire will be observed.

NB. This operation must begin each time at dawn and be ended around the 9th hour.
After the worthy brother has collected a sufficient quantity of this birth giving, feeding and as well consuming and then again birth giving, common world-, air and life-spirit, he has to put it into some clean glasses with ingrained plugs and store them at a cool place until needed. But the glasses have to be completely full, otherwise this alive-making spirit would start its Circulationes in the empty space in between, and exactly like the whole earth arose, when it was created in and out of the water, because the spirit of god was floating there above, this inseperable Quintum esse as a ruler of the beautiful daughters of god (nature) would separate the Terra out of the Aqua at a time that is unwanted now. With the recommendation to the worthy brother, that he preferably undertakes the attraction of the spirit in the first 2 balmy month May and June, we will finish the first Labor and go on from Keter to Chochma.

Salazius
05-02-2018, 09:43 AM
Thank you very much for your translation !

Andro
05-02-2018, 09:50 AM
[...] draw [suck] the earth-spiritum (which is hidden from our eyes) with great power and make it visible and touchable in aqua-form [...]
[...] this birth giving, feeding and as well consuming and then again birth giving, common world-, air and life-spirit [...]I extracted those passages for those who think/believe it's common dew that we're after :)

If we wanted to collect common dew, there are much easier and more efficient ways...

Florius Frammel
05-02-2018, 11:02 AM
I extracted those passages for those who think/believe it's common dew that we're after :)

If we wanted to collect common dew, there are much easier and more efficient ways...

Two things I've noticed:

1.The metal maybe is used because of a better thermal conductivity.

2. Neither in this nor in the Bacstrom setup a (for dew collection) sensible airflow is possible. In contrary, the air is more likely sucked off the receiver creating a low pressure (a Null Zone?).

Andro
05-02-2018, 12:41 PM
All I'm saying is that it's very unlikely that those "devices" are meant for condensing common dew.

FF, when I have some time to transcribe it, I'll PM you the details of an experiment made by someone using such a type of device + a tip or two.

After that, I don't believe I can be of any further assistance with this line particular line of research, as I myself have not been working along these lines for a long time. Not because it's useless, but because I'm experimenting with a few "better" ways to obtain a "product" of higher purity & potency.

Florius Frammel
05-02-2018, 01:04 PM
All I'm saying is that it's very unlikely that those "devices" are meant for condensing common dew.

FF, when I have some time to transcribe it, I'll PM you the details of an experiment made by someone using such a type of device + a tip or two.

After that, I don't believe I can be of any further assistance with this line particular line of research, as I myself have not been working along these lines for a long time. Not because it's useless, but because I'm experimenting with a few "better" ways to obtain a "product" of higher purity & potency.

Thanks! I'm looking forward to see that!

And, if I may ask, have your "better" ways some bonds to the Ormus community?

Florius Frammel
05-02-2018, 01:46 PM
Here is my translation of the introduction to those processes of which we have the first two steps so far:
It should be placed before the already translated first step.

"A to this holy work appointed brother and adept needs to well know and understand, before he begins with his operations, what the dew of heavens[sky?/fire?] and the fats of the earth[soil?] are, so he won't err and take it quid pro quo. We don't want to have understood here neither the dew, which coagulates when falling and in the moment when it touches something gets half-specified, nor the fats of the earth[soil?] itself in a whole, but only the pure Spiritum Mundi and the virgin [unconcubinated] Sal Terrae like we will show in the following."

And here comes my translation of the second step:

Labor IIdus. The collection of the virgin earth

This should happen almost contemporaneously with the first step above as follows: After the worthy brother has chosen a sublime, well flowered field, meadow or garden freed of swamp and moss, filled with black or red volaric [flying? volatile?] ground [soil], he goes to said place early in the morning before sunrise when the weather is bright and pure and digs until under the vegetable roots approxiametly three hand margins [100 cm]deep and draws five pounds [2.5 kg] of this earth with a small wooden shovel into a glassed vessel and cover it immediately so that nothing heterogenous gets inside. Then he proceeds as follows: This earth must be spread on one big, severel small and very flat earthen or glass bowls as high as a finger is wide and put to a place where it is well protected of dew and wind, rain and sunshine too, to attract the air-Spiritus and to dry the earthen mouisture. They have to be covered with glass helmets or bowls when the weather is cloudy, humid air, rain, storm and thunderstorms and reopened only when the sky [heaven?] is pure. After one has done this the whole month of may or june this earth has to be sieved through a sieve (with holes not too small) to get rid of gravel and sand, because if this earth indurated to sand and stone would stay inside and solves too much of the World-Spirit, this cloudy and sandy being would cause a glass-like [matter], which would be a hindrance to the work and brings damage.


[Two pictures soon, see Spiritus Mundi thread]

[End of step two]

Bayer then says:

Following to this:

3. "The first chaotic Conjuction and putrefaction"
4."The Solutio et Resolutio Terrae in B.M."
5."The whole abstraction per gradus in sand"
6."The de-phlagmation of the Menstrui in B.M."
7. "The Calcinatio Terrae et Extractio Salis"
8."The Conjunctio et Cohobatio Salis"
9. "The Solutio, Putrefactio, Coagulatio, et Plusquamperfectio Solis ad Lapidem"
10."The multiplication and projection".

Those last eight stages missing are yet to be found in the MS at the "Geheimes Staatsarchiv Berlin" or at that R+C Lodge in Sweden.

elixirmixer
05-02-2018, 11:10 PM
FF, when I have some time to transcribe it, I'll PM you the details of an experiment made by someone using such a type of device + a tip or two.

After that, I don't believe I can be of any further assistance with this line particular line of research, as I myself have not been working along these lines for a long time. Not because it's useless, but because I'm experimenting with a few "better" ways to obtain a "product" of higher purity & potency.

Andro, may i please hear the experiment and tips and tricks please?

Also I was wondering; if your not working like this anymore; is wuat your doing somehow similar? Or have you ditched the moisture from the air bit all together?

Andro
07-13-2018, 12:00 PM
The "Secret State Archive" library in Berlin is pretty easy, scans are available for certain prices, signed up for a library card --- only "problem" is that the texts in question are in the FM section (Freimaurer/Freemasons) and one needs special permission from the guy who is responsible for that section, and that guy happened not to be there today. Will hopefully try to go there again next week, time permitting, meet the guy and hopefully get the required "special permission" to access those particular texts. Once I have access, I can apparently also take a phone pic to assess the readability. Will update when relevant.

Florius Frammel
07-13-2018, 04:28 PM
The "Secret State Archive" library in Berlin is pretty easy, scans are available for certain prices, signed up for a library card --- only "problem" is that the texts in question are in the FM section (Freimaurer/Freemasons) and one needs special permission from the guy who is responsible for that section, and that guy happened not to be there today. Will hopefully try to go there again next week, time permitting, meet the guy and hopefully get the required "special permission" to access those particular texts. Once I have access, I can apparently also take a phone pic to assess the readability. Will update when relevant.

Thanks a lot, Andro!

Schmuldvich
07-13-2018, 04:58 PM
Awesome, Andro! Godspeed!

Andro
07-13-2018, 05:37 PM
Apparently I cannot make those scans publicly available (it's technically illegal and I will have to sign a legally binding agreement), so it would have to be more of a "private" enterprise. Their good quality scans are also not very cheap (TIFF format, 300 DPI - delivered on a CD or DVD), and at this point so far, the most genuinely interested parties are limited to Florius Frammel and True Initiate. In addition to the 5th grade (of which FF posted an excerpt and kindly translated it), I also inquired about the 8th grade, the one that True Initiate is interested in. They have them both at the Library, but if I obtain them, we will have to make the proper arrangements via PM or email will FF and TI, at least in the beginning... What happens afterwards, we'll just have to see :)

I have faith :)

Florius Frammel
07-13-2018, 05:57 PM
Apparently I cannot make those scans publicly available (it's technically illegal and I will have to sign a legally binding agreement), so it would have to be more of a "private" enterprise. Their good quality scans are also not very cheap (TIFF format, 300 DPI - delivered on a CD or DVD), and at this point so far, the most genuinely interested parties are limited to Florius Frammel and True Initiate. In addition to the 5th grade (of which FF posted an excerpt and kindly translated it), I also inquired about the 8th grade, the one that True Initiate is interested in. They have them both at the Library, but if I obtain them, we will have to make the proper arrangements via PM or email will FF and TI, at least in the beginning... What happens afterwards, we'll just have to see :)

I have faith :)

Nice plan, thanks again!
It has been a long time since I read from TI. Hope he's doing well!
I'm curious if they will be readable. Maybe we can avoid legal issues in publishing an english translation here. But I'm not 100% sure about this "backdoor" being legal.
How much exactly is the price for the scans?

Andro
07-13-2018, 06:06 PM
How much exactly is the price for the scans?

They decide what scan level they can offer me... They're very particular with their regulations :)

Generally, it's 4 EUR per page for the "good" quality (in color, TIFF, 300 DPI, etc...) and 50 cents per page for Black & White, lower quality.

However, it can reach 18 EUR per page for certain types of scans (electronic photography, I think they call it...).

I'll be better informed next time I go there and I'll report back here.

Michael Sternbach
07-13-2018, 06:16 PM
[Forget it. :) ]

Andro
07-13-2018, 06:26 PM
Everyone potentially interested - let's take it one step at the time... First thing is to get that "special permission" from the "Freemason" dude :)

I feel this can be a significant (and apparently quite rare) text for quite a few people here, and there's no desire to deny anyone who's interested, we just have to do it smartly... so we shall "Handle With Care"... I just happen to live a short drive away from the "Secret State Archive" in Berlin, so I am currently trying to see this through to the best of my ability... Patience...

Florius Frammel
07-13-2018, 06:32 PM
I think Michael is mainly interested in that other book.
Besides Michael, your inbox is full since quite some time..

Michael Sternbach
07-13-2018, 06:41 PM
I think Michael is mainly interested in that other book.
Besides Michael, your inbox is full since quite some time..

Thank you, Florius. There was some temporary confusion on my part. It's all good.

Good to know that my inbox is full. Was wondering why nobody wants to talk to me anymore. :D

Will make some space.

Kiorionis
07-14-2018, 12:46 PM
Another manuscript crowd-fund? I’m in.

alfr
07-14-2018, 05:16 PM
me too

very thanks my best regard alfr

Illen A. Cluf
07-14-2018, 05:20 PM
Please keep me informed. Depending on the cost, I am also interested.

Florius Frammel
07-14-2018, 06:31 PM
The cheapest way to do this (imho):

Scan one page in cheapest low-res mode and look if it's readable. If yes ->Do like this with all pages.
If one or more pages aren't readable in low-res mode, scan them with next higher level.

I'm pretty sure now to avoid legal issues in publishing a translation, because then it's no longer the original script. At least four of the people I know that are at least slightly interested in this may help in sharing translation work. Depending on how many people are interested, those could (or not) be free from the payment, as it is already paid with their work. But we can talk about that.

What do you think about that idea?

Illen A. Cluf
07-14-2018, 06:58 PM
The cheapest way to do this (imho):

Scan one page in cheapest low-res mode and look if it's readable. If yes ->Do like this with all pages.
If one or more pages aren't readable in low-res mode, scan them with next higher level.

I'm pretty sure now to avoid legal issues in publishing a translation, because then it's no longer the original script. At least four of the people I know that are at least slightly interested in this may help in sharing translation work. Depending on how many people are interested, those could (or not) be free from the payment, as it is already paid with their work. But we can talk about that.

What do you think about that idea?

Sounds simpler to do one typical page in low-resolution first, and if that is readable, then do the whole book in low resolution and THEN decide which pages need higher resolution.

Andro
07-14-2018, 06:59 PM
From what I was told, the library decides what scan level(s) they can offer me. They seem to be quite particular about this.

Let's see if I get the "special permission" from the Freemason guy first, and then I'll see what scan level they'll offer me. Once we have this information, we can take it from there.

If it's readable, the person/persons who are willing and able to translate will have to decide what sort of compensation/barter they want. I am basically the intermediary guy because I happen to live nearby, and it would be nice if the scanning cost could be shared equally between the interested parties, especially if they only offer me the "expensive" scans. IF the "cheap" version is offered and readable, depending on the number of pages, it shouldn't add up to very much. Also, it's complicated to have just one page scanned by them (special request needs to be filed for every scan and I really don't have time for this) - but it appears that they can allow to take a picture with a phone (after getting the special permission) so we can check the quality and readability.

Anyway, on my part, if we manage to take possession of the scanned texts, I would like at least a transcribed version for myself, but also having an English translation (which I can also proof for good English) would be even nicer.

Once/if I get the "special permission", I suggest to continue in PM with the interested parties. Someone could also contact True Initiate (I haven't seen him here in a while), because I would assume that Grade 8 is mostly for him...


The cheapest way to do this (imho):

Scan one page in cheapest low-res mode and look if it's readable. If yes ->Do like this with all pages.
If one or more pages aren't readable in low-res mode, scan them with next higher level.

I'm pretty sure now to avoid legal issues in publishing a translation, because then it's no longer the original script. At least four of the people I know that are at least slightly interested in this may help in sharing translation work. Depending on how many people are interested, those could (or not) be free from the payment, as it is already paid with their work. But we can talk about that.

What do you think about that idea?

Florius Frammel
07-14-2018, 07:11 PM
From what I was told, the library decides what scan level(s) they can offer me. They seem to be quite particular about this.

Let's see if I get the "special permission" from the Freemason guy first, and then I'll see what scan level they'll offer me. Once we have this information, we can take it from there.

If it's readable, the person/persons who are willing and able to translate will have to decide what sort of compensation/barter they want. I am basically the intermediary guy because I happen to live nearby, and it would be nice if the scanning cost could be shared equally between the interested parties, especially if they only offer me the "expensive" scans. IF the "cheap" version is offered and readable, depending on the number of pages, it shouldn't add up to very much. Also, it's complicated to have just one page scanned by them (special request needs to be filed for every scan and I really don't have time for this) - but it appears that they can allow to take a picture with a phone (after getting the special permission) so we can check the quality and readability.

Anyway, on my part, if we manage to take possession of the scanned texts, I would like at least a transcribed version for myself, but also having an English translation (which I can also proof for good English) would be even nicer.

Once/if I get the "special permission", I suggest to continue in PM with the interested parties. Someone could also contact True Initiate (I haven't seen him here in a while), because I would assume that Grade 8 is mostly for him...

I would be interested in the 8th Grade as well.
Unfortunately I don't know how to contact TI, but I'm pretty sure others can. He ended his activities quite abruptly..

Andro
07-14-2018, 07:14 PM
Sounds simpler to do one typical page in low-resolution first, and if that is readable, then do the whole book in low resolution and THEN decide which pages need higher resolution.

We either get the cheap (B&W) scans OR the more expensive (color) scans. Mixing things may be a regulatory nightmare of filing requests, picking up the separate scans, etc... From what I understood, the "better quality" scans are either delivered to a physical address or have to be picked up on location, on a CD or DVD. I guess most of us have never been to a German Secret State Archive before :)

Florius Frammel
07-14-2018, 07:29 PM
German Secret State Archive before :)

We're notorious regulators..

Dendritic Xylem
07-14-2018, 08:11 PM
I am also interested. :)

Andro
07-14-2018, 08:30 PM
We're notorious regulators..

Tell me abut it :D

elixirmixer
07-14-2018, 09:01 PM
I want in aswell.

Andro
07-16-2018, 07:30 AM
For German speakers, there are some of the "terms and conditions" of the "Secret Archive", from a piece of paper they gave me.

The car is currently in the shop, so I hope I'll get the chance to go again later this week.

I hope that the "special permission" from the Freemason dude is just a mere formality (since I am not "one of them" :))

Also, all future correspondence on this matter, I will conduct in private (PM or email) with Florius Frammel ONLY.

Interested parties will be notified when we have something (electronically) tangible :)

https://hermeticvision.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/GSTAPK001.jpg


https://hermeticvision.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/GSTAPK002.jpg

Florius Frammel
07-16-2018, 08:23 AM
I hope that the "special permission" from the Freemason dude is just a mere formality (since I am not "one of them" :))

I don't think so. The archive belongs to the state ("staatlich") germany. Never ever will they discriminate others in favour of freemasons.

Andro
07-16-2018, 08:25 AM
I don't think so. The archive belongs to the state ("staatlich") Germany.

I know :) ...


Aber wem gehört der Staat?


(But who does the state belong to?)


Hmm... :cool:

Florius Frammel
07-16-2018, 09:26 AM
I know :) ...


Aber wem gehört der Staat?


(But who does the state belong to?)


Hmm... :cool:

The assumption that there's a conspiracy by freemasons and rosicrucians isn't new in germany. It was most popular between 1933 and 1945...

Andro
07-16-2018, 09:40 AM
The assumption that there's a conspiracy by freemasons and rosicrucians isn't new in germane. It most popular between 1933 and 1945...

I know :)

Also see THIS (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4745-Flat-Earth&p=41995#post41995) and THIS (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4745-Flat-Earth&p=42040#post42040).

I'll hopefully know about the FM "special permission" later this week, and then we'll all be "smarter" :)

Andro
07-16-2018, 01:37 PM
OK, here's how it works:

The guy responsible for the "Special Collections" is just a librarian, but he said that in order to access those texts I need to actually write a letter to the Dresden Freemason Lodge. Within a week or so I will receive a letter in response from the Dresden Lodge, confirming (or denying) my request. The librarian however, said he's never encountered problems with this before.

After I receive the written permission from the Dresden Lodge, I take it to the "Secret Archive" library here in Berlin, after which it can take another week for them to make the texts available (apparently they are stored somewhere else, possibly in a safe at a different location, etc). So, we're taking this one step at the time. From now on, I will not tire you all with more logistics, I will be in touch privately with Florius Frammel and update on developments :)

BTW, if they only offer me the more "expensive" scans, it can mount up to a few hundreds of Euros. I hope I'll be able to get the "cheap" scans (if they're readable), so costs will be relatively much smaller, especially if shared.

Florius Frammel
07-16-2018, 03:05 PM
Those secret state archive people don't do things halfway ;)

Andro
07-16-2018, 03:34 PM
Those secret state archive people don't do things halfway ;)Even the street where the archive is located is called "Archive Street" :)

It also seems those are some really well "guarded" texts...