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View Full Version : Big Reveal, those aren't magnets, they're horseshoes!



Dragon's Tail
03-28-2018, 09:39 PM
Been reading up a bit on Ripley, and glancing over a scroll from the early 1600s, I couldn't help but notice the "magnet" carried by the seeker didn't have a "magnet look." It has nail holes in it. Horseshoe magnets are made by bending iron to put the opposite poles beside each other (though an artist may not realize this). Then I went on a little quest to figure out some more about the history of magnetism. I found this:

http://www.askmar.com/Magnets/Permanent%20Magnet%20Early%20History.pdf

The horseshoe magnet wasn't even invented until the 1800's!!! Everyone in here (my opinion, not insisting, just saying) needs to read this. Those are NOT magnets on the Ripley scrolls, they're horseshoes.

What does this signify? Luck? As in try and test everything around, pray, and hope that you find the material and the process? Could be. Or it could be something else, ideas welcome on the significance (the real significance) of horseshoes on the scrolls for that time period. Might mean that an iron worker or someone who works with horses is most likely to find the process and the starting materials. ;)

Anyway, with all the talk about a "magnet for SM," how much is derived from those scrolls and later writings about the scrolls that mistakingly assumed that thing on the guy's hip to be a magnet? And other dated scrolls with horseshoes? Time to toss some of these writings out it seems, unless of course the author had the stone.

This seemed like an important discovery to share with the rest of you. According to the linked article, the first "horseshoe" magnet was invented in 1873 by Jules C. Jamin, a French Physicist.

Is this sticky worthy? I dunno, but that paper is definitely worth a look. Toodles.

Awani
03-28-2018, 09:42 PM
Horseshoes have different meaning if turned upward or downward, at least in my neck of the woods. How is it portrayed?

:p

Dragon's Tail
03-28-2018, 09:49 PM
Horseshoes have different meaning if turned upward or downward, at least in my neck of the woods. How is it portrayed?

:p

On the scroll I look at, the split end faces up like a 'U', and in fact the staff he's carrying looks like a horse's front hoof as well. I didn't even see that before until I just went back to check. haha. Would like to know both meanings from your local area though, if you'll share ;)

Awani
03-28-2018, 09:58 PM
A horseshoe is hung above the main door, and it is supposed to bring luck to the farm or the owner of the house (the myth comes from farming communities obviously). It should hang like U, because the luck fills up (like a cup). If it hangs downward then the luck runs out i.e. downward is "negative".

:p

Dragon's Tail
03-28-2018, 10:13 PM
A horseshoe is hung above the main door, and it is supposed to bring luck to the farm or the owner of the house (the myth comes from farming communities obviously). It should hang like U, because the luck fills up (like a cup). If it hangs downward then the luck runs out i.e. downward is "negative".

:p

Sounds about like what I learned growing up in my parts too. Still I wonder if this was the same in the 1600s, or where that "myth" originated. Might do some more searching on horseshoes later on.

JDP
03-29-2018, 02:54 AM
Been reading up a bit on Ripley, and glancing over a scroll from the early 1600s, I couldn't help but notice the "magnet" carried by the seeker didn't have a "magnet look." It has nail holes in it. Horseshoe magnets are made by bending iron to put the opposite poles beside each other (though an artist may not realize this). Then I went on a little quest to figure out some more about the history of magnetism. I found this:

http://www.askmar.com/Magnets/Permanent%20Magnet%20Early%20History.pdf

The horseshoe magnet wasn't even invented until the 1800's!!! Everyone in here (my opinion, not insisting, just saying) needs to read this. Those are NOT magnets on the Ripley scrolls, they're horseshoes.

What does this signify? Luck? As in try and test everything around, pray, and hope that you find the material and the process? Could be. Or it could be something else, ideas welcome on the significance (the real significance) of horseshoes on the scrolls for that time period. Might mean that an iron worker or someone who works with horses is most likely to find the process and the starting materials. ;)

Anyway, with all the talk about a "magnet for SM," how much is derived from those scrolls and later writings about the scrolls that mistakingly assumed that thing on the guy's hip to be a magnet? And other dated scrolls with horseshoes? Time to toss some of these writings out it seems, unless of course the author had the stone.

This seemed like an important discovery to share with the rest of you. According to the linked article, the first "horseshoe" magnet was invented in 1873 by Jules C. Jamin, a French Physicist.

Is this sticky worthy? I dunno, but that paper is definitely worth a look. Toodles.

I don't know how could anyone confuse that drawing as anything else than a plain old horseshoe. The end of the staff is in fact plainly shaped like a horse's hoof. You can even see the nails (represented by the small lines) holding the horseshoe in place:

http://i.imgur.com/x72T87e.jpg


http://s1.favim.com/orig/5/earth-hoof-horse-shoe-Favim.com-158836.jpg

Dendritic Xylem
03-29-2018, 03:04 AM
I don't know what Ripley meant, but the word "magnetism" can have multiple meanings.

Many occultists are actually referring to "animal magnetism" instead of permanent magnets.



Paracelsus, the great Reformer in medicine, discovered magnetism long before Mesmer, and pushed to its last consequences this luminous discovery, or rather this initiation into the magic of the ancients, who understood the grand magical agent better than we do, and did not regard the Astral Light, Azoth, the universal magnetism of the Sages, as an animal and particular fluid, emanating only from certain special beings.
http://books.google.com/books?id=aSitBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA295&dq=albert+pike+magnetism&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjCwpP1vJDaAhVF6oMKHabwA7UQ6AEIMjAC#v=sn ippet&q=mesmer&f=false

Dragon's Tail
03-29-2018, 03:56 AM
I don't know how could anyone confuse that drawing as anything else than a plain old horseshoe. The end of the staff is in fact plainly shaped like a horse's hoof. You can even see the nails (represented by the small lines) holding the horseshoe in place:


Right? But we see magnets in all kinds of these pictures. I think somewhere along the line, someone goofed. I've been reading about magnets for a while, and it was only on inspection of Ripley's account of the stone's construction that I saw the word magnetism in there nowhere. Then I went on my little hunt. Still I wonder, what is a horse's foot doing as at the end of a staff with the shoe still mounted on it?

Ripley's text, Liber Secretisimus, mentions a Mineral Trinity from which he makes the prime matter (Artificial Antimony Compound), the dissolution and putrefication of what he calls the three Kinsmen. Whether the scroll creators knew what those Kinsmen were, I have no idea, but I have a feeling that horseshoe is there for a reason, and I see it nowhere in the text, but I've just started studying this one, and all of his bouncing around through the work is a bit difficult to decipher at first.

Anyway, I think someone of a new line of thinking (19th-20th century) went back through some of these and started spouting off about the symbolism of magnets, without realizing that a horseshoe in an older text could not possibly represent a magnet at all. If they wanted to hint at magnetism, a needle or a shiny rock would be a much better representation for the time period, and that trick is ancient.

Schmuldvich
03-29-2018, 02:24 PM
If this spurred research for you and you gained knowledge from it, more power to ya!

Was there ever any doubt that what is depicted in the Ripley Scroll is a horseshoe...? :confused:


https://i.imgur.com/yTfZj08.png

https://i.imgur.com/TbJRJN6.png

https://i.imgur.com/rx9xWVG.png

https://i.imgur.com/dK1ywDi.png

https://i.imgur.com/0njSc4d.png



The only depiction that could even remotely be taken as a "magnet" but is clearly a horseshoe is MS. Ashmole Rolls 53 from the Bodleian Library.



https://i.imgur.com/SSFIZZW.png

Dragon's Tail
03-29-2018, 04:18 PM
Was there ever any doubt that what is depicted in the Ripley Scroll is a horseshoe...? :confused:



The confusion isn't necessarily with the item in question, but the symbolism that it presents to the reader/researcher. There are a lot of speculative posts and papers that I've looked at, which seem to insist that all of these horseshoes are "magnets" for something, depicted as common horseshoes.

So, I suppose it's not a direct correction to be made, but a correction in the way the horseshoe is interpreted in the pictures. I've though long that hartshorn is important to the process, and all of the handwaving by modern researchers inferring that the shoe represents a magnet of some kind are misleading. I think the illustrators were drawing attention to the hoof itself.

JDP
03-29-2018, 05:32 PM
The confusion isn't necessarily with the item in question, but the symbolism that it presents to the reader/researcher. There are a lot of speculative posts and papers that I've looked at, which seem to insist that all of these horseshoes are "magnets" for something, depicted as common horseshoes.

So, I suppose it's not a direct correction to be made, but a correction in the way the horseshoe is interpreted in the pictures. I've though long that hartshorn is important to the process, and all of the handwaving by modern researchers inferring that the shoe represents a magnet of some kind are misleading. I think the illustrators were drawing attention to the hoof itself.

According to Adam McLean, it seems like the horseshoe has a connection to Ripley's paternal origin in the town of Ripley in Derbyshire:

http://docs6.minhateca.com.br/1009064198,BR,0,0,ripley7.pdf

So what we possibly have here is a kind of "signature" letting us know that Ripley was indeed the original author of the scroll.

Dragon's Tail
03-29-2018, 09:30 PM
According to Adam McLean, it seems like the horseshoe has a connection to Ripley's paternal origin in the town of Ripley in Derbyshire:

http://docs6.minhateca.com.br/1009064198,BR,0,0,ripley7.pdf

So what we possibly have here is a kind of "signature" letting us know that Ripley was indeed the original author of the scroll.

Oh, nice. Thanks, JDP. I'll look into that :)

JDP
03-29-2018, 11:30 PM
I found this amusing picture of a market place in Ripley, Derbyshire:

http://www.picturesofengland.com/img/X/1027690.jpg

http://www.picturesofengland.com/England/Derbyshire/Ripley/pictures/1027690

Very fitting. Where Ripley's descendants/relatives go to shop!