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pierre
06-23-2018, 02:56 PM
Some time ago, an idea was installed in my mind until today. In principle, the idea was why human life, so sacred and miraculous must end. In that moment the idea arose that there was a possibility of transcending this existence, and our consciousness could be maintained. And that the purpose of this life is, precisely, to find through our mediation, that door that would allow us to continue as conscious beings after we died.

The second concept, associated with this idea was that the moment of death is important and decisive for this possibility. That is the final divine gift. Being aware of this last door and identifying it for our continuity as conscious beings is the final goal of our existence.

Months after this ideas comes to me, a couple of "signals" related to this concept appeared at different times. A co-worker was reading a book, where the first sentence was "The secret is how to die" (Dan Brown, The Symbol)

And then a song by George Harrison, (The art of Dying) also came to me.

Any reflection that this concept produces to you? Any idea can help ...

greetings to all.

Kiorionis
06-23-2018, 04:55 PM
Quite interesting. There’s a concept which comes to mind which is called in the psychedelic community ‘the little death’, also known as ‘ego-death’. It’s the stripping away of a person’s personal identity, and the sublimation of consciousness from a physical perception to a higher one. My own experiences in this state lead me to think, while in this state, the purity of the Spirit is revealed. Healing and change are then allowed to occur on the physical after the experience as the personal identity begins to align with the spiritual identity. A complete alignment with the spiritual nature, over time, I think would be a sort of death in and of itself, as the illusory personality created by social construct, false belief, etc. is killed off and one becomes completely Spirit-embodies.

At least, those are my reflections at this point haha

pierre
06-23-2018, 05:44 PM
Yes, I think I know what you mean, Kiorionis. I have experimented with hallucinogenic substances such as psilocybin mushroom, to the point that when I returned, I did not know who I was or where I was for several minutes. The trips were very deep.

But the "final" death, the one from which there is no return, never, is the problem. Something tells me there is a "hole" through which we can escape "without being seen" by death. And whoever finds that "crack" will be freed forever from the embrace of death, as we know it.

Before dying, (perhaps a few moments before) we escaped through that secret door in our mind ...

Dwellings
06-23-2018, 05:54 PM
Some time ago, an idea was installed in my mind until today. In principle, the idea was why human life, so sacred and miraculous must end. In that moment the idea arose that there was a possibility of transcending this existence, and our consciousness could be maintained. And that the purpose of this life is, precisely, to find through our mediation, that door that would allow us to continue as conscious beings after we died.

Human Life must end because we live in a finite world, so God had no choice. If you are born in the flesh, you must die at some point. Even sages are not immune from this as you must be aware.

Yes but you can only maintain your consciousness if you are active in Spirit else you will end up living multiple lives without knowing what or who you were. The goal that you describe is the most important but I find pleasures and enjoyment also to be important otherwise why bother with birth.


The second concept, associated with this idea was that the moment of death is important and decisive for this possibility. That is the final divine gift. Being aware of this last door and identifying it for our continuity as conscious beings is the final goal of our existence.

I think it is important. To be in control of death and its related stuff, hence continuity requires that you be in control of your spirit hence the re-activation of Spirit is the most important, rest can proceed from there. That is my opinion.

z0 K
06-23-2018, 06:28 PM
Some time ago, an idea was installed in my mind until today. In principle, the idea was why human life, so sacred and miraculous must end. In that moment the idea arose that there was a possibility of transcending this existence, and our consciousness could be maintained. And that the purpose of this life is, precisely, to find through our mediation, that door that would allow us to continue as conscious beings after we died.

The second concept, associated with this idea was that the moment of death is important and decisive for this possibility. That is the final divine gift. Being aware of this last door and identifying it for our continuity as conscious beings is the final goal of our existence.

Months after this ideas comes to me, a couple of "signals" related to this concept appeared at different times. A co-worker was reading a book, where the first sentence was "The secret is how to die" (Dan Brown, The Symbol)

And then a song by George Harrison, (The art of Dying) also came to me.

Any reflection that this concept produces to you? Any idea can help ...

greetings to all.

I practice Taoist Alchemy which I've found to be far more practical in obtaining results than any other spiritual discipline I have tried. The secret to immortality in the Taoist practice is to give birth to your own Immortal Fetus. The first step is to learn the Inner Circulation of Qi which is connected with breathing.

When I used to practice Lucid Dreaming I could circulate Qi in the Dream Body by drawing it in through the Jing practice which is learned through the control of sexual energy and consists of the pulling of the energy back into the groin or lower cauldron. This can be done without breathing.

When the two practices are combined without breathing one will convert the Qi through the Jing concentration focus which has nothing to do with sex into the condensation of Shen which is the Philosophical Mercury of Qi which when drawn in to the Dream Body gives one the power to ascend or fly in the dream or transcend the dream set and arrive in the Microcosm lucid.

It occurred to me from the practice that at the time of death one that knew how could initiate the Shen sequence and sustain the Light Body in the Microcosm which is beyond Space/Time into Eternity where Death is irrelevant.

The first time I became aware of the Immortal Fetus was an incredible Palingenesis synchronizing the circulation of Qi with a powerful alchemical tincture taken in during the breathing practice. With each rotation the concentration of Qi increased until a sequence was initiated that flooded the ventricles of my brain with an energy feeling akin to the output of magnets able to attract and repel. The "magnets" or regulators are four areas in the brain that can be felt to energize when the circulating Qi energy is strong enough.

Taoist Alchemy has identified two of the field regulators, the left and right ventricles, as Supreme Ultimate and Indomitalbe Spirit. When fully expanded the two fields pull away from each other with great intensity that feels like a vacuum centered at the top of your head. If the concentration of Qi is strong enough in the circulation out the ventricles the vacuum feeling becomes untenable ripping what feels like a hole in the top of your head. As the hole opens a surge of coherent information rises like an intelligent ray or eye. Within is a hollow shaft extending indefinitely. One end is your conscious awareness at the other is a bright light.

Focus on it and you will be drawn to it rapidly. That is what happened to me. Quickly I turned my attention to the shaft cylindrical walls and passed through and became aware of an immense white sphere with uncountable rays of energy going out of it and rays plunging into it. I focused my attention on the rays going into the sphere. Each ray had a pulse or scintilla in it that moved down the ray and into the sphere. As I observed information flowed into my mind about the observations. This was the Cosmic Egg from which all things begin and to which all things return. I saw the scintilla in the rays were souls returning from the Macrocosm at death.

pierre
06-24-2018, 03:57 PM
Interesting.

I found a book by Thomas Cleary about Taoist alchemy. 'Practical Taoism'.

There is talk about a "secret passage" and other things that you comment here. I will read it to have some deeper idea on this subject.

z0 K... Could I ask you some questions when I read the book?

pierre
06-24-2018, 04:00 PM
Human Life must end because we live in a finite world, so God had no choice. If you are born in the flesh, you must die at some point. Even sages are not immune from this as you must be aware.

Yes but you can only maintain your consciousness if you are active in Spirit else you will end up living multiple lives without knowing what or who you were. The goal that you describe is the most important but I find pleasures and enjoyment also to be important otherwise why bother with birth.



I think it is important. To be in control of death and its related stuff, hence continuity requires that you be in control of your spirit hence the re-activation of Spirit is the most important, rest can proceed from there. That is my opinion.

If we must control the spirit for it, so be it! :)

z0 K
06-24-2018, 04:10 PM
Interesting.

I found a book by Thomas Cleary about Taoist alchemy. 'Practical Taoism'.

There is talk about a "secret passage" and other things that you comment here. I will read it to have some deeper idea on this subject.

z0 K... Could I ask you some questions when I read the book?

Yes

theFool
06-24-2018, 06:22 PM
In Taoism and other traditions, we can find at least two types of immortals:

- One type is roughly what z0 K described above, the continuation of existence in a "soul" body and leaving the physical body behind. For example Buddha.

- Another type is to take the physical body also into the immortal or celestial realm. This kind of immortality leaves no corpse behind. For example Jesus.

I don't know if you agree in general with that view.

Awani
06-24-2018, 07:51 PM
Some time ago, an idea was installed in my mind until today. In principle, the idea was why human life, so sacred and miraculous must end. In that moment the idea arose that there was a possibility of transcending this existence, and our consciousness could be maintained. And that the purpose of this life is, precisely, to find through our mediation, that door that would allow us to continue as conscious beings after we died.

Why is YOUR consciousness, the one called "pierre", so vital to keep alive? What makes you important? It is an honest question.

If your higher self (the real YOU) remains alive, is that not more important... that part of YOU will never die, IMO... only this "lower" version called "pierre".

:p

pierre
06-24-2018, 08:30 PM
Why is YOUR consciousness, the one called "pierre", so vital to keep alive? What makes you important? It is an honest question.

If your higher self (the real YOU) remains alive, is that not more important... that part of YOU will never die, IMO... only this "lower" version called "pierre".

:p

Maybe I should ask my higher self what he thinks about it... (if I can find it) :)

pierre
06-24-2018, 08:43 PM
In Taoism and other traditions, we can find at least two types of immortals:

- One type is roughly what z0 K described above, the continuation of existence in a "soul" body and leaving the physical body behind. For example Buddha.

- Another type is to take the physical body also into the immortal or celestial realm. This kind of immortality leaves no corpse behind. For example Jesus.

I don't know if you agree in general with that view.

I had not noticed that, but I like the concept. I will have to investigate and meditate on it.
Thank you for mentioning it.

z0 K
06-24-2018, 09:48 PM
In Taoism and other traditions, we can find at least two types of immortals:

- One type is roughly what z0 K described above, the continuation of existence in a "soul" body and leaving the physical body behind. For example Buddha.

- Another type is to take the physical body also into the immortal or celestial realm. This kind of immortality leaves no corpse behind. For example Jesus.

I don't know if you agree in general with that view.

The second type is another hypothesis that is worthy of experimental practice until some unforeseen accident takes your body out such as a car wreck. Then the first option is what I am going with.

Immortality of the physical body does not necessarily include indestructibility so you could live to be 1000 years old and then get hit by a moving vehicle and die. So then the first option will have to do.

Indestructibility I believe is possible in pursuit of the second type of immortality of the physical body. The hypothesis is that there is a level of Gnosis attainable through alchemical means where one is able to control the aboriginal Information System manifest at birth and then experience transcendent self gnosis that allows one control of their core Code. That Information System operates spiritually and physically simultaneously in the Celestial Microcosm (Spiritual) and the Terrestrial Macrocosm (Physical).

In theory when one apprehends their aboriginal Code it becomes possible to transform the dense matter the Code spins into a physical body into energy capable of transcending the limitations of Space/Time. The Core of the Code is in the center of the Cosmic Egg. The deeper you go the broader your horizons until you realize your personal Code is only a tweak in the Universal Information System spinning the World of wonders.

Quite possibly one would not want to condense back into the limited fragile human body. However Paradox comes into play. Evermore energy is required to realize the Core Code at the center of the Cosmic Egg. Sublime focus uses all the energy accumulated. Then your Code condenses to conserve the energy of manifestation that entertains your awareness. So you fall back to Heaven or Earth.

If you burn too much energy attempting to apprehend the Sublime Core of the Universe so that your Code is unable to entertain your awareness then you will awaken to Strange Days until the Code sorts you out of the local Chaos Field.

elixirmixer
06-24-2018, 10:21 PM
I love this rant your on ATM, z Ok. Love it.

I met the Cosmic egg myself after taking a pretty rediculous amount of LSD and driving my car at top speed.

Exactly how you described. This intense "inner sun" that had an ENDLESS fluctuation of energy entering and exiting; i didnt pay heaps of attention to the ball, I was more focuses on the energy which was like visible wavelengths of fractals.

When i was there.. (whats the place that has the cosmic egg in it?) ... "The egg" which i can only know as some expression of divine omnipotance... started teaching me things; like you said a wave of information that you didnt have before just bursts in in a new and strange way.

I learnt about some of the structures of the higher worlds and how sound and silence are basically the male/female divisio that causes ALL things to separate and become seemingly specified.

The egg also taught me at a deep level how our entire world has been constructed with the power of the word; and that it was ancient sages and other gifted and intelligent (but sometimes evil) who have carved our world into existance from what was essentially a blank slate; and all this carving was done with words, because words bind energy. They are like boxes that we put energy in.

Some evil people have taken this to the extreme and boxed us all in, boxed EVERYTHING in. Sorry, ive started on my own rant... but just wanted to support the egg notion and also gratitude for your detailed explanation of some advanced chi kung methods. Always of high value.

elixirmixer
06-24-2018, 10:31 PM
Oh and i forgot to ask; could you go into the vacuum brain explosion in more detail please because i think i am able to do this but im scared because it literally does feel like your brain is going to rip or go into stroke or something and so i always end my meditations there thinking that ive just done some serious damage to my brain via pot smoking or something; but like you say, this feeling comes only when i am filling my brain centre with Qi.

Just go for it and pray I dont stroke? It feels like an immense amount of pressure and very scary i think to go all the way. I need more advice on this topic please and thank you.

Kiorionis
06-24-2018, 10:32 PM
First off, Neidan is slightly different than Chi Kung.

Secondly, interesting insights EM :)

Kibric
06-24-2018, 11:50 PM
In Taoism and other traditions, we can find at least two types of immortals:
There are 5 types of immortal in Taoism.
Earth Immortal is what physical alchemy achieves
Heavenly immortal is indestructibility.

theFool
06-25-2018, 01:24 AM
Why is YOUR consciousness, the one called "pierre", so vital to keep alive? What makes you important? It is an honest question.

If your higher self (the real YOU) remains alive, is that not more important... that part of YOU will never die, IMO... only this "lower" version called "pierre".

:p Because we don't have experience of the immortal part and its attributes.

elixirmixer
06-25-2018, 04:08 AM
My foundational style of Chi Jung is "The Flowing".

It consists of both Weidan and Neidan techniques. But i get what you mean. The tai chi stuff is clearly different from the meditations. Is that what you mean?

Kibric
06-25-2018, 05:18 AM
a song by George Harrison, (The art of Dying) also came to me.
His wife has an interesting account to what happened to him.

George Harrison , one of the more discreet but also closer to spirituality Beatles, had ” lit the room ” when he died in 2001 , his wife Olivia Harrison. As we can see in the video, part documentary George Harrison : Living in the Material World, directed by Martin Scorsese , wife of Harrison suggests that a phenomenon known as the “light of death ” could have occurred at the time of his death.
https://juand3vas.wordpress.com/2014/03/08/did-george-harrison-light-body-at-death/

Schmuldvich
06-25-2018, 05:52 AM
Why is YOUR consciousness, the one called "pierre", so vital to keep alive? What makes you important? It is an honest question.

If your higher self (the real YOU) remains alive, is that not more important... that part of YOU will never die, IMO... only this "lower" version called "pierre".

While neither of these questions were directed at me, I also would like to reiterate these points.

When greater consciousness has been accessed, even for a short period, this earthly self is easy to comprehend how minuscule and incredibly short a 'lifetime' on Earth is.

I know very few people who after realizing this have any desire whatsoever to live "forever" (become immortal).

It simply is not important and does not even register on the scale of anything worth being concerned about.

Even if one could live as long as the Ancients, some supposedly as old as 800+ years old, this still is so infinitesimally short in the grand scheme of things.

Think how long the last second (literal one second) of your life was a second ago and everything that happened during that second. Depending on how you choose to perceive that second and how deep you want to go you could accurately say that very much happened in that last second, especially with functions that keep you alive at a cellular level. Beyond that, think of all the things that happened in the world, in the ocean, in the air, and within the Earth during that second. A whole bunch of stuff happened! Yet in this lifetime you will barely be able to remember that second by tomorrow much less a week from now. That is how short your life is in the grand scheme of things, and when you zoom out and change your perception to something greater than your 'self', you will understand how much and how little importance this life has.

I can only assume those who wish to attain Earthly immortality have never perceived anything beyond this conscious and do not understand Time.

Michael Sternbach
06-25-2018, 09:37 AM
There are 5 types of immortal in Taoism.
Earth Immortal is what physical alchemy achieves
Heavenly immortal is indestructibility.

What are the other three?

Kiorionis
06-25-2018, 12:21 PM
What are the other three?


1) Ghost Immortals are the lowest of the five,liberated via yin, unclear in spirit, no name in ghost and heavenly realms, although out of reincarnation, cannot return to heaven. They belong to nowhere, only cease to reborn.

2) Human Immortals have not realize the great Dao, they obtained one method, and in one method obtained one skill. They practice whole heartedly, obtain pure spirit and chi, solidify form, immune from human world disease.

3) Earth Immortals follow law of sky and earth’s rising and falling, obtain the number for the manifestation of son and moon. Within the body, observe the changes in annual, monthly, and daily cycles. Understand the dragon and tiger, regulate Kan and Li, differentiate the purity of the water source, use different fire in different times, observe the two opposites, three cores, four phenomenon, five elements, set the six energies, collect the seven treasures, sequence the bagua, circulate the energy, refine the form and stay in the world, achieve long life.

4) Spirit Immortals are Earth Immortal who no longer interest to live in the world. They continue the practice, refine gold and jade, transform form into energy, five energies go back to the source, three Yan gather at the top, when practise complete form is forgotten. Yin ends and Yang is pure, they discover body beyond body, depart from form and rise into immortal, transcend ordinary and become extraordinary, decline the secular world and go back to heaven.

5) Heaven Immortals are Spirit Immortals transcend attachment to stay in heaven. They spread the Dao in human world, continue the deed until the divine work is done, then receive the heavenly summon to go back to the thirty-six heavens, back to eighty-one Yang heavens, to the three purest heavens.

-source (https://lisiming.com/chinese-philosophy/daoist/daoist-cultivation/5-types-of-immortals/)

Apparently the first three can be obtained without external alchemical works, but the final two require alchemical preparations in order to achieve. Spirit immortality also requires 10 year process of ‘staring at a wall’.

Awani
06-25-2018, 03:29 PM
I know very few people who after realizing this have any desire whatsoever to live "forever" (become immortal).

Indeed. However if I can somehow extend my life to instead of dying at 58, I die at 115 or so... that I am game for... then I can really get shit done... but we always seem to talk about immortality, and not sure how other people here feel, but immortal in my book is FOREVER. To that I say: no thanks


Even if one could live as long as the Ancients, some supposedly as old as 800+ years old, this still is so infinitesimally short in the grand scheme of things.

And if one manages to achieve this level of lifespan then I reiterate what I wrote in another thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5630-Enlightenment-is-not-for-you)... that such status should be to serve mankind... to be blessed with such a long life as 800+ years OR to be enlightened (and if you are not enligthened and 800+ years old please kill yourself)... that is the perfect positon to truly serve the Divine i.e. everything around you.

:p

Awani
06-25-2018, 03:36 PM
His wife has an interesting account to what happened to him.

Not sure why it is not mentionend in the article, but this is VERY common. I think it is called "fey", but not certain.

Anyway 100+ years ago, back in the day when almost everyone died at home surrounded by loved ones this effect was very common. The reason we have lost this aspect of death, is because our elders die in a cold sterile hospital... often kept company by a machine... rather than the whole family holding a vigil for days on end waiting for "the angels to come and take the soul away".

Also common that people can see these "beings of light" come and get the dying. One very recent case of this was when Steve Jobs died:


Before embarking, he'd looked at his sister Patty, then for a long time at his children, then at his life's partner, Laurene, and then over their shoulders past them. Steve's final words were: 'Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow.'" - source (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/oct/31/steve-jobs-last-words)

For a discussion about this topic see: Episode 134 - life after life (http://www.naturalbornalchemist.com/episodes/2017/8/6/episode-134-life-after-life)

:p