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horticult
04-01-2009, 01:38 PM
Everybody can see the revival of alchemical working with dew started by ***.
It would be nice. Even Mutus Liber starts with these 3 "links" on dew: Gen 28: 11-12; Gen 27: 28-39; Dt 33: 18-28. And some other works also mentioned dew. But it is not easy /at least for me/ to align it with the ALL "common" statements of "all" classic authors/adepts.
Some are directly opposite - e.g. Aristeus. Could be adepts psyops...
Some are complaining of weather in France, some travelled to Mexico to be successful.
Some people are meaning that even the dew in famous Paracelsus Ens Melissae is not "common" dew.
Should be a heavenly dew, which is something ?completely different than "normal" dew?
As I myself wish to know, I started this topic, so be it not flamewar, but "philowar".
Let in the fire of the posts the errors burn and remains the Truth.

kerkring
04-01-2009, 02:38 PM
As to the mutus liber, the dew work in it is to prepare a salt from dew that is used for the first part of the Dry Path. Although one french author who worked with the Philosophers of Nature wrote that the salt from dew was not of any use for this path...but he also wrote that it is possible to make a stone from this dew salt alone by isolating the three principles through a dry disitllation as in the acetate path.

As to ***'s sea salt and dew path, I found this take on the actum leyden letter in a book by a good contemporary french author:

If one remembers that the sea salt coming from "St. Uby" (imaginary location) which is alluded to by the author of the Golden Testament, the allusion for a hermeticist worthy of his name is clearly...Stibnite.

But how should we understand the notions of "sea salt" and "sulfur of antimony" but by the notion of antimony chloride or more exactly the butter of antimony.

In fact, this one, has a greasy appearence like butter, and issues forth from the distillation of a mixture of HCl and regulus of antimony or better still, stibnite, which contains the precious volatile and unstable red sulfur.

We know that when one hydrates the butter of antimony with just a few drops of water, a whitish substance forms immediately, which is called "powder of Algaroth."

As to contradictions and traps in the old texts, I read in book by a very good contemporary alchemist that he hadn't yet encountered a text where the original author had not left some things out or changed the order of the steps. But I'll make a bigger post about this later.

cheers,
k

Dizardos
04-01-2009, 02:48 PM
Ask how many are a millionaire and you have your answer. Some do alchemical work for a reason that is different than health, wealth and everything that can be derived from that.

I will give an example. Ask people what they are and many will attribute a greatness to themselves that outshines Napoleon, while you would never hear anyone say that they are just a simple 'insert random uninteresting profession', even though it often is closer to the truth.

I have had an inside look for a long time of that which appears to be miraculous and amazing and it is not what it appears to be.

If following the herd was all that would be required, the entire world would be filled with alchemists. If there is a small herd that can be followed, then it is the herd of adepts, but most instead follow only a few sheep and become separated from the herd.

Aleilius
04-01-2009, 08:28 PM
As to contradictions and traps in the old texts, I read in book by a very good contemporary alchemist that he hadn't yet encountered a text where the original author had not left some things out or changed the order of the steps. But I'll make a bigger post about this later.
It is rare to find texts which have not been meddled with in some way or another . Not only that, but many of the alchemists used cabbalistic locks to ensure the puffers and evil men would be unable to properly decrypt their work. Sometimes they refer to gold, but this gold is not vulgar gold. Likewise they refer to silver, but this silver is not vulgar silver. This is the case with dew, and also the water of the philosophers!


Ask how many are a millionaire and you have your answer.
I'm sure some of them would argue with you regarding this point!


If following the herd was all that would be required, the entire world would be filled with alchemists. If there is a small herd that can be followed, then it is the herd of adepts, but most instead follow only a few sheep and become separated from the herd.
I can understand why individuals would follow ***. He rarely speaks in riddles and rarely conceals his words. Of course, is this the mark of an adept? Adepts almost always conceal their words carefully. Their words are always marked with double and even triple blinds.

Those beginning on the great path that is alchemy would inherently follow *** and his open words. He offers light & hope to those weary travelers along the dark path, but alas this hope is only a false hope! The only true light to follow is the light of the Philosophers Star! By this light the lost traveler will find the true route to the Stone.

Awani
04-01-2009, 09:45 PM
I can understand why individuals would follow ***...

Only sheep follow...

:cool:

Dizardos
04-01-2009, 10:17 PM
I'm sure some of them would argue with you regarding this point!


Of course they will. They will say that a true alchemist will never reveal his abilities to protect himself.

For this reason I said: "I have had an inside look for a long time of that which appears to be miraculous and amazing and it is not what it appears to be."

My apologies for my cryptic words, but the truth is that most who study this art interpret everything literally and thus also miss the meaning of my words most of the time. This keeps me out of trouble. Not that I absolutely have a need for that, but I prefer to be part of many groups. I do not do that to gain a better understanding, but I suppose to get to know adepts and adepts to be which certainly will be important later on. Illumination is a seed that has a chance to sprout in every soil, although some nutritive soils improve its probability drastically.

What I cryptically meant with this is that I have seen the inner Sanctum of his Temple. I am one of the 23 members of the I-A-O group. I would not be lying if I said that I am probably the most unpopular member and not because I contribute the least of everyone, but simply because my perspective differs. This is not without repercussions for me, but it does not only have repercussions for me. I do not wish to take part in the battles that take place between the numerous alchemical groups. The alchemical wars that rage are bad enough without me joining the fray. There is so much to lose and so little to gain. Those who have little, try to convince everyone, while those who have everything hardly try to convince anyone.

I will tell you that the Magus who calls himself Merlin still has a job and despicable as he finds his job, he needs it to support himself.

Furthermore I hope that everyone takes note of the fact that a change of path would be most strange if a previous path were so successful and yet this is precisely what took place and will take place in the future too.

It would be tempting to remove me from the inner Sanctum for my words, but I believe that it would be worthwhile for them to keep me there for despite the slandering of another individual, I believe that I will get the answers from that individual that the administrator hoped he would have gotten. Despite his slanderous words, I believe he unconsciously knows there is more to it. It will nevertheless have to wait, since I do not have time or a special urgency for it. I patiently await my own results.



I can understand why individuals would follow ***. He rarely speaks in riddles and rarely conceals his words. Of course, is this the mark of an adept? Adepts almost always conceal their words carefully. Their words are always marked with double and even triple blinds.

Those beginning on the great path that is alchemy would inherently follow *** and his open words. He offers light & hope to those weary travelers along the dark path, but alas this hope is only a false hope! The only true light to follow is the light of the Philosophers Star! By this light the lost traveler will find the true route to the Stone.

Very true, Aleilius.

Aleilius
04-01-2009, 11:34 PM
Hi Dizardos, thank you for revealing more about *** and his group. If I were you I'd be very weary of revealing such information. *** isn't the most patient person, and most likely you'll be booted from his group once word of this thread reaches him. Heck, we may even get a rise from the master himself!

I've had a chance to lurk around on his new public forum for a few days and I'm appalled by the disinformation being released. Now, I've been wrong on numerous occasions, but this is beyond my blunders!



From www.lost-academy.com

What sets this forum apart from any other on the web is the fact we make the true Elixir of Life and real Philosopher's Stones, and we don't argue about theories and philosophies. If this is your first time seeing this information, then click here to download my short booklet on how to make the true Elixir. You can also buy a physical copy of the book by clicking here.

I'm not sure how *** can make such sweeping statements! How did he come to the conclusion that this concoction of vulgar sea salt and vulgar dew is the true elixir of life and the "real" Philosopher's Stone? I'm sorry, but this is very misleading to beginners!


From www.lost-academy.com

This booklet was made to provide instructions on the central secret to alchemy, which is morning dew. My other books that contain hundreds of photos will be posted on my website Alchemy-Illuminated.com
There is a central secret to the work of alchemy, and this central secret is indeed a water, but it is not vulgar dew! Gaining knowledge of this special water is central to understanding the true path to the Stone.


From www.lost-academy.com

3. Do not post anything about transmutation of metals. A single gram of our stone of the 5th order is able to produce 16 billion dollars US in gold. And the stone can also be made from iridium and even rarer metals.
This is not true. Do not be mislead by such empty words.


From www.lost-academy.com

The only kind of people allowed on this forum are the friendly kind; the more friendly the better. And if you show us your photo, then that's even better. This is a place of peace and happiness because we are enjoying the fruit of our labor, having searched so long for the true Elixir of Life. So if you are one of the people from another forum who loves to start arguments and debates, we don't want you here. Anyone who starts a fight here will be instantly deleted like magic.
This is particularly funny! From my experience *** is the only one that likes to start arguments. He came to our forum slandering members and making empty claims. I'm sorry, but *** has a superiority complex, and this is a warning to all those out there to stay away! Once you cross paths with *** you'll realize that he's the wolf leading the sheep astray.

Some may think this post of mine is particularly of a negative nature, but I must disagree. I am only revealing the things that others are unable to say or are afraid of saying. It's quite possible that this thread will become a flame war, but I'm perfectly fine with such an outcome. The only flaming will come from *** and his followers. I have no doubts that our members will continue to keep a cool head.

A charlatan (also called swindler) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretence or deception.

Dizardos
04-02-2009, 12:54 AM
A rockstar will always want to stand on stage and be the only standing there. It will cost you dearly if you decide to stand on the stage too. This is not a theory. I have seen it in practice more times than I can recount.

Considering my position I am not at the liberty to speak as openly as I would otherwise do. I can however say that I have been part of the inner Sanctum for a year and have witnessed practically everything that has taken place. The creation of the Lost Academy for example was originally the result of the clash between this forum and ***. The theory behind it was that it would show who the real alchemists were, although few I-A-O members went along.

I could tell many entertaining tales, but this is not the time for it. Strange as it sounds I believe that *** might have played an important role in my quick progress. I do not think that he is THE cause, but certainly one of the causes is not implausible. He could be one factor in the trinity of causes that got me to where I am, although I am not entirely sure since so many events took place in a comparatively short while.

Turba Philosophorum, as one of the oldest alchemical works, is very clear in its stance on dew and similar watery substances. The words to look for would be 'water of the clouds'.


Hi Dizardos, thank you for revealing more about *** and his group. If I were you I'd be very weary of revealing such information. *** isn't the most patient person, and most likely you'll be booted from his group once word of this thread reaches him. Heck, we may even get a rise from the master himself!

That could be true, but I doubt it since I am not the one who has the most to gain by staying there. I might share a glimpse of my own work if it all works out properly and I do believe that I am able to get a response from someone *** respects (admitted or not) where everyone else so far has failed. Why? Because I will be able to present my own treatise (for highly select instances). There is no point in waiting in anticipation, because results are never truly certain and the slowest growing trees bear the best fruit. So, yes, it will all take time.

If I am banned despite this, then it will be permanent. I will not accept any re-invites later on.

Aleilius
04-02-2009, 01:46 AM
A rockstar will always want to stand on stage and be the only standing there. It will cost you dearly if you decide to stand on the stage too. This is not a theory. I have seen it in practice more times than I can recount.
The larger you are, the harder you fall. If you're going to stand on stage then you better be damn sure you're right! However, I do not wish to take my stance on the stage. My only wish is to understand nature in whole. I do not wish for fame, money, or any of the other benefits of our art. My gold is knowledge and understanding. I seek peace and truth. My stage is the precipice of nature. I seek to overlook all that is good and beautiful.


Turba Philosophorum, as one of the oldest alchemical works, is very clear in its stance on dew and similar watery substances. The words to look for would be 'water of the clouds'.
Without this water our work is in vain.

True Initiate
04-02-2009, 10:29 AM
Kerkring can you tell me the name of the book and which French author is that?

Dizardos thank you for your honesty.
I have a friends who are part of the lost academy and they really believe that dew+salt mixture will produce a stone.

*** openly claims that he and everybody in his I.A.O. had produced the "philosophical mercury" and the dissolved the gold with it...Is that(at least) true?!
Or just another boosting?

Awani
04-02-2009, 11:56 AM
Is that(at least) true?!
Or just another boosting?
A little bit of both... bravado and the Sacred Work doesn't go hand in hand in my opinion!

:cool:

Edit:
Just for the record Alchemy Forums doesn't have anything against *** and his crew, nor does Alchemy Forums encourage flame wars etc (if they should erupt)... a personal opinion is a personal opinion nothing more. Let's keep this thread related to the Work and not about *** as a person!

kerkring
04-02-2009, 11:58 AM
*** openly claims that he and everybody in his I.A.O. had produced the "philosophical mercury" and the dissolved the gold with it...Is that(at least) true?!
Or just another boosting?

Through the (lead) acetate path it is possible to make a liquid that can dissolve (some) gold. See the Acetate Path Research papers from the Philosophers of Nature for this. IIRC *** has also experimented with the acetate path, so he has probably achieved this also.

The "mercury" you get from this path is very different chemically (organic) from the dew water and salt mixture (inorganic) that is being experimented with on the lost-academy forum though. And I have not tried to replicate this path (dew and salt) so I can't say if it is real or not.

kerkring
04-02-2009, 12:02 PM
Kerkring can you tell me the name of the book and which French author is that?


It is from 'Pratique de l'Oeuvre Alchimique Végétale et Métallique' by Patrick Rivière. There are no real recipes in this book though. He gives the golden testament and then some comments and small excerpts from other texts, in the section devoted to it. I'll try to translate it (not the leyden letter itself though) soon.

horticult
04-02-2009, 12:30 PM
Is 'water of the clouds' and 'heavenly dew' exactly the same?

Dizardos
04-02-2009, 12:59 PM
Dizardos thank you for your honesty.
I have a friends who are part of the lost academy and they really believe that dew+salt mixture will produce a stone.

*** openly claims that he and everybody in his I.A.O. had produced the "philosophical mercury" and the dissolved the gold with it...Is that(at least) true?!
Or just another boosting?

It depends how you would look at it. Dissolving gold is not difficult and can be done in a myriad of ways. Aqua regia and by means of acetate derivatives for example, but does that make it the 'philosophical mercury'?. I never talked about dissolving gold. The word 'philosophical' denotes that chemists do not have it and have no understanding of its creation. As far as I am concerned chemists can dissolve gold just as easily if not better via the above mentioned methods.

I would not consider myself to have created the philosophical mercury. There are those who boast to have created gold, but I am not one of them. The main difference lies in what is seen. I have great pictures of that which appears to be gold, but that does not make it so. There are those who claim much, but I fear that their intelligence might lead to their death. One member might have credibility with multiple small scale transmutations. I would nevertheless consider that a transmutation via particulars as already talked about by Hephaelios if true.

There are no millionaires there.

Tell your friends to be 'discrete' with the information I provided.

True Initiate
04-02-2009, 01:12 PM
They will be discrete, don't worry.

Are you talking about the "lead golden"?

I heard that from Rubellus and he says it is a complete bulls'*t,but i never saw a pictures from it.

Dizardos
04-02-2009, 01:15 PM
Is 'water of the clouds' and 'heavenly dew' exactly the same?

Why would dew be so different from rain water? Both 'condense', but in a different quantity and from a different position. I use the word 'dew' instead of 'heavenly dew' since the last could denote a substance that has little in common with ordinary water.

Dizardos
04-02-2009, 01:17 PM
They will be discrete, don't worry.

Are you talking about the "lead golden"?

I heard that from Rubellus and he says it is a complete bulls'*t,but i never saw a pictures from it.

Yes, lead and tin mostly. Both can easily gain the appearance of gold.

True Initiate
04-02-2009, 01:22 PM
Maybe the difference is that the dew only receives the light from the moon in contrary to rain.

Dizardos
04-02-2009, 03:08 PM
To test a theory, see if it corresponds with every sentence below. Correspondence with only a part is not good enough for the Emerald Tablet consists of only a few sentences.
__________________________________________________ _______________

THE EMERALD TABLET

(Translation by Adept Fulcanelli, as quoted in "Alchemists and Gold" by Jaques Sadoul )

This is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth:- As below, so above; and as above, so below. With this knowledge alone you may work miracles. And since all things exist in and emanate from the ONE Who is the ultimate Cause, so all things are born after their kind from this ONE.

The Sun is the father, the Moon the mother; the wind carried it in his belly. Earth is its nurse and its guardian. It is the Father of all things, eternal Will is contained in it. Here, on earth, its strength, its power, remain one and undivided. Earth must be separated from fire, the subtle from the dense, gently, with unremitting care. It arises from the earth and descends from heaven; it gathers to itself the strength of things above and things below. By means of this one thing all the glory of the world shall be yours, and all obscurity flee from you.

It is power, strong with the strength of all power, for it will penetrate all mysteries and dispel all ignorance. By it the world was created. From it are born manifold wonders, the means to achieving which are here given.

It is for this reason that I am called Hermes Trismegistus; for I possess the three essentials of the philosophy of the universe.

This is the sum total of the work of the Sun.
__________________________________________________ _______________

The simple truth is that science does not know all forms of energy that exist. They have missed the most important one.

True Initiate
04-02-2009, 03:33 PM
Ahh, yes you are right.
It seems even that the rain is better(much more powerfull) than dew in this respect...

Yes, only the rain corresponds with these descriptions to the full extent.

horticult
04-02-2009, 03:36 PM
Why would dew be so different from rain water? Both 'condense', but in a different quantity and from a different position. I use the word 'dew' instead of 'heavenly dew' since the last could denote a substance that has little in common with ordinary water.
Yes, that was intented by my question. I suppose that 'water of the clouds' and 'heavenly dew' "has little in common with ordinary water", and my question is: Are these 2 equal?

Green Lion
04-02-2009, 04:09 PM
Hi kerkring


It is from 'Pratique de l'Oeuvre Alchimique Végétale et Métallique' by Patrick Rivière. There are no real recipes in this book though. He gives the golden testament and then some comments and small excerpts from other texts, in the section devoted to it. I'll try to translate it (not the leyden letter itself though) soon.

Be careful what Patrick River said.
I know the character and he is a bit like *** ...
This is a person who has worked hard.
He well knows the spagyria.
But he has not the Philosopher's stone, yet tries to make believe ...

True Initiate
04-02-2009, 04:25 PM
I don't know much about Patrick River but i found out that on the original Actum Leyden letter from British Library there are two important marginal notes on the second page of the document. The first uses symbols and translates either as "This salt is earth" or "This salt is antimony". The second note also uses symbols (and I think is the more important of the two) which when translated reads "This dew is Nitre".

Which in correspondance with kerking and Patrick River could be the case.

Green Lion
04-02-2009, 04:29 PM
The notes were written by Sigismund Bacstrom.
He had interpreted a lot of texts with the focus on antimony.
But this is not the same path that Patrick Rivière's path.
And even if I like Bacstrom, he had seen the antimony where there is no antimony in certain texts.

True Initiate
04-02-2009, 04:33 PM
You are very knowledgeable Green Lion.
How do you know this?
I mean do you posses the original copy?

Green Lion
04-02-2009, 04:36 PM
I'm sorry, but I can not say.
In simple terms, I know a lot of alchemists and I have many contacts.

PS :
If you want to see a false transmutation made by Patrick Rivière, you can see a TV documentary on alchemy in this site :
http://rhone-alpes-auvergne.france3.fr/emissions/cotedocs/45745858-fr.php#para52518576
Click on the world "alchimie" at the end of the article on alchemy.

True Initiate
04-02-2009, 04:39 PM
Ok i will respect that but will you be charitable and give us your explanation on the matter?

Green Lion
04-02-2009, 04:43 PM
There is not a single subject on which to work.
The idea of antimony of Kerkring is good.
This provides a philosopher's stone.
Work on the dew give also a philosopher's stone.
But it is true that it is more interesting and easier to work with rainwater in place of the dew or replace the dew + sea saltmixture with seawater
Frederico Gualdus speaks on that subject in a treaty, without describing the whole process.

True Initiate
04-02-2009, 04:47 PM
What treaty?

Green Lion
04-02-2009, 04:51 PM
"Selected Chemical Universal and Particular Processes" of Baron Von RUESENSTEIN.
It is in the RAMS library.

True Initiate
04-02-2009, 05:01 PM
Thank you Green Lion,you are of great help. :)
Luckily i have a treaty, i will read Baron Von RUESENSTEIN more carefully now.

See you soon.

Green Lion
04-02-2009, 05:05 PM
There is another text, very rare.
Its title :
"La fin des ouvrages de Bazille Valentin et de Théophraste Paracelse" by an Adept.
It deals with dew and salt.
I just have a part of this book, not the all text.

True Initiate
04-02-2009, 05:07 PM
I never heard of this book before but i will try to find it somehow.If i suceed i will let you know. ;)

horticult
04-02-2009, 05:42 PM
Frederico Gualdus speaks on that subject in a treaty, without describing the whole process.

Do you mean "Gualdus: Revelation of the True Chemical Wisdom"?

Green Lion
04-02-2009, 05:45 PM
No, it is not this text.
Rusenstein wrote a treaty with discussion between six adepts.
One of this Adepts was Gualdus.

horticult
04-02-2009, 07:21 PM
No, it is not this text.
Rusenstein wrote a treaty with discussion between six adepts.
One of this Adepts was Gualdus.
Thx a lot 4 info.
This team of adepts was really experienced, they produced it even from feces or cemetery earth ;) !
So, lets study this labyrinth again. I should believe G. Meyrink b4 years.


NOTE: I think that my translation of "STERCORE HUMANO" was more exact than this censorship of mine post by admin. I really hate this newspeak and all this "correct" activities around.

Dizardos
04-02-2009, 10:37 PM
Yes, that was intented by my question. I suppose that 'water of the clouds' and 'heavenly dew' "has little in common with ordinary water", and my question is: Are these 2 equal?

Water of the clouds is simply water. It does not matter at all where it is gathered, because if that was important then surely Philosophers would have said 'water of the clouds that has fallen out of the sky' since it would practically be impossible to gather it fresh from the clouds in ancient times.

I referred to the following sentence, but omitted it since it contained an insult: "But fools, hearing of water, think that this is water of the clouds. Had they read our books they would know that it is permanent water, which cannot become permanent without its companion, wherewith it is made one. But this is the water which the Philosophers have called Water of Gold, the Igneous, Good Venom, and that Sand of Many Names which Hermes ordered to be washed frequently, so that the blackness of the Sun might be removed, which he introduced in the solution of the body."

What it means is that the Water the Philosophers refer to can never form clouds in the sky. I would thus not consider water of the clouds equal or even similar to heavenly dew, since I assume the heavenly dew to correspond with Mercury. Only that which has a redeeming principle can be considered heavenly.

Dizardos
04-02-2009, 10:43 PM
Ahh, yes you are right.
It seems even that the rain is better(much more powerfull) than dew in this respect...

Yes, only the rain corresponds with these descriptions to the full extent.

Those are not my words. Does the following sentence from the Emerald Tablet make any sense in the above context: "Earth must be separated from fire"?

True Initiate
04-03-2009, 02:53 PM
That's a trouble with alchemical text!They leave too much room for guessing.

Hephælios
04-03-2009, 04:24 PM
Not by common sublimation, this first water gathers.

orangelmx
04-03-2009, 09:53 PM
There is not a single subject on which to work.
Work on the dew give also a philosopher's stone.
process.

Hi green Lion,

Do you think it will be posible to elaborate a little bit more about this, of the how... ?? :)

Thanks!
-AumSha

Aleilius
04-03-2009, 10:01 PM
orangelmx: Some alchemists will tell you there is only one path to the Stone, and everything else is a distraction. Others will tell you that the stone can be made via any matter.

Who should we believe?


Not by common sublimation, this first water gathers.
There are two liquids, and two solids. We unite liquid and solid, and liquid and solid. This produces a solid and a liquid. These two are then united, and after this marriage our work begins.

Green Lion
04-03-2009, 10:25 PM
Hi green Lion,

Do you think it will be posible to elaborate a little bit more about this, of the how... ??

There is a fairly simple method in theory, but rather risky and difficult in practice for the path on the dew alone.

We filter spring dew.
It is distilled 6 times, puting the distillate in the distillation flask after cooling the assembly at the end of each distillation.
It distills a seventh time.
At the end of the last distillation, whereas only one drop of liquid in the heated flask , the assembly is opened so that outside air affects the drop of dew.
It will be red and attract Spiritus Mundi.
This Spiritus Mundi will be fixed in the form of a clear liquid, like water.
This water is a solvent that can be used on red metals to obtain the Philosopher's stone.

You must be very careful at the end of the seventh distillation because if the glass apparatus does not support heat shock, you lose everything.
It is best to take our time and distilled at low temperature over several weeks.

orangelmx
04-04-2009, 02:47 AM
There are two liquids, and two solids. We unite liquid and solid, and liquid and solid. This produces a solid and a liquid. These two are then united, and after this marriage our work begins.

Thanks for the time, but you did not said anything really... :cool:

orangelmx
04-04-2009, 02:55 AM
Hi Green Lion,

Thanks a lot for your post!! it look interesting, but I cant see one drop of dew becoming a alkahest....

Aleilius
04-04-2009, 04:06 AM
Thanks for the time, but you did not said anything really... :cool:
I said a lot if you know the starting materials. ;)

Sorry, I wasn't really replying to your question about the dew. It was more of a response to Hephælios enigmatic words.

fures
04-04-2009, 06:58 AM
When you read somebody's words, you kind of feel the truth of it, or not. Bold claims rarely (mean never) contain the truth in this art.

The most learned adepts say that there is not any book that openly reveil the true matter of ours. None of them use the vulgar name to avoid the loss of the value of the art. By the way - this is also a bold claim.

I stay curious.
fures

Green Lion
04-04-2009, 09:24 AM
but I cant see one drop of dew becoming a alkahest....
The drop of dew is not the alkaest.
The drop of dew attracts the Spiritus Mundi.
The Spiritus Mundi then become a water, when it "touchs" the drop of dew.
So a new water appaers, like dew on a cold surface.
This is the alkaest.

Of course, just for this experiment, not for all alchemy.

pierre
04-04-2009, 01:45 PM
Hello friends:
I have been reading the posts on alkahest and I wonder: why not get the mineral mercury which is the appropriate solvent for the metalic kingdom? Alkahest comes from the vegetable kingdom and if we want get the best performance in the metals must use a solvent of the same nature.
Finally remember that the work is done inside the vessel, and all the reactions that describe teachers abroad, are just an analogy of what happens inside the hermetic glass ...
Of course, some people may disagree with me...;)

orangelmx
04-04-2009, 02:57 PM
I said a lot if you know the starting materials. ;)

Sorry, I wasn't really replying to your question about the dew. It was more of a response to Hephælios enigmatic words.

Uppsss... Sorry!:p

Aleilius
04-04-2009, 02:59 PM
orangelmx: Haha, it's not a problem. :)



Finally remember that the work is done inside the vessel, and all the reactions that describe teachers abroad, are just an analogy of what happens inside the hermetic glass ...
Of course, some people may disagree with me...;)
That sounds good to me!

orangelmx
04-04-2009, 06:23 PM
Hi Pierre,

Sometimes I feel very strong about, the fact that until we can create the same process within us, we will be not be sucessful outside... we need to become the stone in order to created outside :rolleyes:

Aleilius
04-04-2009, 07:48 PM
I think this is true only in the ability to understand and grasp the entire process of creating the Stone. If an untrained individual was given the complete and full process for creating the Stone I believe they would be able to succeed regardless of inner adeptship.

orangelmx
04-04-2009, 09:25 PM
I think this is true only in the ability to understand and grasp the entire process of creating the Stone. If an untrained individual was given the complete and full process for creating the Stone I believe they would be able to succeed regardless of inner adeptship.


Hi Aleilius,

if this is true... tell me how many people have succeed in creating the stone... with adeptship or not.... :eek:

Seth-Ra
04-04-2009, 09:55 PM
I would have to agree with Aleilius on this one. My reasoning, is that if your Spirit/Soul has grasped the understanding of the method of which to make the Stone, then by your Mind/knowledge, you do the work in the lab; as the saying goes "The work going on in the crucible is also going on inside the Alchemist." So, if you know the process, and perform it, then its being performed in you at the same time.
Just my thoughts on it though. :)

True Initiate
04-04-2009, 09:59 PM
Does the farmer have to be spiritually enchanced to make a seed grow in the ground?
If the farmer is "bad" does that mean nothing will grow on his field?

It's the nature's work.

Aleilius
04-04-2009, 10:09 PM
orangelmx: The reason they fail is because of their lack of understanding of the first matter, the secret fire, and the required manipulations. I don't believe it's because of their spiritual enlightenment. This comes as a byproduct of carrying out the process. One only needs to understand the process in whole, and then properly carry it out.

The problem is understanding the process and the matters used! You need to unravel many mysteries in order to find the truth. This requires a great understanding of our art.

Go work with your dew and sea salt for all I care, but I must state that you not find THE Stone through this method. :eek:

True Puffer & Seth-Ra are spot on! It's natures work, but nature can only proceed so far. The process does require manipulation of the matter. If your seed is not properly cared after, i.e. watered and fertilized, the evolution will halt and nature will not be able to proceed with her work.

True Initiate
04-04-2009, 10:25 PM
Just out of curiosity Aleilius, have you ever tried the dew+sea salt method?

orangelmx
04-04-2009, 10:31 PM
Hi Aleilius,

Thanks for your message, you talk like someone that have created the stone, which path has you use and have you created it....

Thanks.
-Aumshua

PS.
You did no answer my question...

Seth-Ra
04-04-2009, 10:53 PM
If i may add this; ill say that i dont really think the "spirituality" of it, is a simple byproduct of the physical work, but rather, i see both as yin-yang:

Spirit holds the physical work in itself.
Physical holds the spiritual work in itself.

To do it in a way that the spirit is is seen as separate, or by-product, i.e. not "important" would be like crude, chemistry, and not Alchemy.
To do it in a way that Physical is seen as separate or not "important" would be a "false religion" in my personal view point, and nothing more.
You cannot have 1, without the other, and they are done at the same point. Its about balance of spirit and body, merged with the mercury, perfectly embodied in its final physical form, and being of itself spiritual, and yet physical, holding both secrets in itself. The yin-yang, black holding the seed of white, white holding the seed of black, perfectly in balance in side of a circle.

I hope ive helped. :)

~Seth-Ra

Aleilius
04-04-2009, 10:53 PM
Just out of curiosity Aleilius, have you ever tried the dew+sea salt method?
Yeah, that I have! I didn't notice any obscure or strange properties, but I did think the crystallization that occurs on heating+cooling was neat (super saturated solution). It certainly is not an alkahest either!


Thanks for your message, you talk like someone that have created the stone, which path has you use and have you created it....
Unfortunately I haven't a chance to carry out the work yet. Maybe I shouldn't be speaking with such authority then? The choice is always up to you. You can believe me, or not. ;)


You did no answer my question...
I'm sorry, I thought I had answered it in full, but maybe I misunderstood your question.

Dizardos
04-04-2009, 11:25 PM
The greatest proponents of the salt plus dew method (which also goes by the name of 'Leythen method' by its proponents or more properly 'Leiden' as the city is called in Dutch) have not been able to show results beyond causing the substance to blacken. Evidence has yet to be produced that it works. Furthermore I wish you to note the fact that the entire recipe comes from a dying man..... Not that this necessarily means that he was no alchemist, but it would not be considered the best source of information. The entire recipe is two pages long, while there are three thousand alchemical works in existence. Much fuss about very little in my opinion especially when it is taken into consideration that the true meaning of the author may have gone unnoticed.

The greatest proponent claims to have created many Philosopher's Stones and yet still has a job. He must really like his job..... Oh, wait, he does not like his job at all. Maybe I should let the great Magus speak for himself:

"I also am eager to quit my job and stop waking up at 5am every morning to get ready for work, and up on my feet working my ass off all day long, then so tired by the end of the day that I can't get much accomplished. The working life is not a real life at all. Being a slave to a corporation is not what any alchemist should have to spend their time doing. Our time is meant to go towards far greater things." - 7th of October 2008

I consider the case to be closed....


Hi Aleilius,

if this is true... tell me how many people have succeed in creating the stone... with adeptship or not.... :eek:

Very few and not without reason. Alchemy is not an open Art. Those who know little will pretend that they know more than they truly do and those who know much will pretend that they know less than they truly do. If it was the intention of the Philosophers that easy and clear recipes were given that were comprehensible without effort, then surely they will be found in the alchemical collection of three thousand books.

orangelmx
04-04-2009, 11:27 PM
Thanks for your response Aleilius,

"Unfortunately I haven't a chance to carry out the work yet. Maybe I shouldn't be speaking with such authority then? The choice is always up to you. You can believe me, or not. "

Some people know that Lab Alchemy is about working in the Lab, if there is no real experience in the lab with any of the paths that lead to a Stone, how can you talk the way you talk... and then say" You can believe me, or not....

This same talk was why this tread was created...

Sorry, and with all my respect, you shold know a little bit more, before expresing your self this way.

PS.
any of the elementals are just the diferent embodyments that the Anima mundi takes, but never the fire... that is why it is the root of everything else....

orangelmx
04-04-2009, 11:48 PM
Very few and not without reason. Alchemy is not an open Art. Those who know little will pretend that they know more than they truly do and those who know much will pretend that they know less than they truly do. If it was the intention of the Philosophers that easy and clear recipes were given that were comprehensible without effort, then surely they will be found in the alchemical collection of three thousand books.

I completely agree with you in everything Dizardos :D

But I may add :
And the other thing is that the ones that know will never post openly the keys in a open forum... there is a lot that goes on for one gets to a point of knowing... and when you need the last bit of info, they will know if is right to give to you or not, in other words if you are worth or not...

truly.
-AumShua :)

Aleilius
04-04-2009, 11:54 PM
Sorry orangelmx, I'm fairly sleep deprived at the moment. I didn't mean to snap at you! We tend to not make the best judgment calls when lacking sleep. I guess it's because of your English, but it feels like you're also snapping at me.

I do work in the lab, but I have not carried out this particular work yet! This is THE Great Work, and everything I've done is leading up to this work.

So I take it you're working on the dew and sea salt method right? Is this the only experience you have in alchemy? Have you succeeded in creating the Stone from this method? Just how much do you know about alchemy? Are you guilty of this statement: "Those who know little will pretend that they know more than they truly do and those who know much will pretend that they know less than they truly do."

These are all important questions.

Aleilius
04-05-2009, 12:13 AM
orangelmx: You're Oscar from lost-academy right?



Source post: http://www.lost-academy.com/practical-alchemy-f1/colours-to-be-observed-in-the-operation-t109.htm#1443
I found this... it may helps us...

Colours to be observed in the Operation of the Great Work

You must expect to have it exceeding Black, within 40 days after you have put your Composition into the Glass over the Fire; if it be not black, proceed no further, for it is unrecoverable: it must be as black as the Ravens Head, and must continue a long time.

If it be Orange colour, or half Red, within some small time after you have begun your Work, without doubt your Fire is too hot; for these are tokens that you have burnt the Radical humour and vivacity of the Stone.

Know ye not, that you may have Black of any thing mixed or compounded together with moisture: But you must have Black which must come and proceed of perfect Metaline Bodies, by a real Putrefaction, and to continue a long time.

As for the colours of Blew and Yellow, they signifies that the Solution and Putrefaction is not yet perfectly finished, and that the colours of our Mercury are not yet well mingled with the rest.
The Black aforesaid is an evident sign, that in the beginning the Matter and Composition doth begin to purge it self, and to dissolve into small Powder, less than the Motes in the Sun; or a glutinous Water, which feeling the heat, will ascend and descend in the Glass: at length it will thicken and congeal, and become like Pitch, exceeding Black; in the end it will become a Body, and Earth which some call Terra Saetida; for then by reason of the perfect Putrefaction, it will have a scent or stink like unto Graves new opened, wherein the Bodies are not thorowly consumed. Hermes doth call it Terra Soliis, but the proper name is Leton, which must be blanched and made white.

This blackness doth manifest a Conjunction of the Male and Female, or rather of the four Elements.
Orange colour then doth shew that the Body hath not yet had sufficient digestion, and that the humidity (whereof the colours of Black, Blew, and Azure do come) is but half overcome by the dryness.

When dryness doth predominate, then all will be white Powder: It first beginneth to whiten round about the outward sides of the Glass; the Ludus Philosophorum doth say, that the first sign of perfect whiteness, is the appearing of a little hoary circle passing upon the Head shewing it self round about the Matter on the outward sides of the Glass, in a kind of Citrine colour.

Any feedback.... ?

-Oscar.

This will never happen with dew and sea salt! You're working with the wrong matters! :)

orangelmx
04-05-2009, 12:17 AM
Hi Aleilius,

Sorry if I sounded harsh,

I am working on this path but it is not the only one... there are many ways to get to the same goal. The one thing that strikes me is that in this path we have Mercury(dew) Sea Salt (Sulfur) salt body (salt) when there are inside the flask we have all four elements, and from the 4 elementes we can generete the universal seed...

That is my resume ... hehehe

But I will edit this post late tonight, I realy not comfortable saying this things...

orangelmx
04-05-2009, 12:22 AM
orangelmx: You're Oscar from lost-academy right?
matters! :)

Dear Aleilius,

We are talking about experience, in the Art.

Sincerely.
-AumSua. :)

PD.
It is so wierd that some one will go and search all the forums I am member of... there is no need for that, just ask me, and I will tell you.

Aleilius
04-05-2009, 12:28 AM
Hi orangelmx, social interaction between alchemists is quite an interesting phenomena to behold. Alchemists often pride themselves of humility and their egoless behavoir. However, I've seen more often than not that ego does get in the way, and it often results in a butting of heads. This is of no real surprise to me. We must always keep in mind that alchemists are humans, and humans are prone to ego laden words. I have trouble keeping my ego from rushing out sometimes, but I am also an Aries, and it's not the easiest thing for us to stay couped up. I may sound harsh sometimes, but my bark is much worse than my bite.



I am working on this path but it is not the only one... there are many ways to get to the same goal. The one thing that strikes me is that in this path we have Mercury(dew) Sea Salt (Sulfur) salt body (salt) when there are inside the flask we have all four elements, and from the 4 elementes we can generete the universal seed...
You also have an interesting interpretation of the three principles and the four elements. I truly hope your work succeeds, but I remain skeptical.

---------


I am not from any forum, I am a member of about 4 alchemy forums, which is complete ok. which does not have nothing to do with the conversation we are having.
...
It is so wierd that some one will go and search all the forums I am member of... there is no need for that, just ask me, and I will tell you.
Hehe, but you are a member of lost academy. I'll drop this though! You're right, it's about your experience. I wanted to see how much experience you had, and thus I searched for your name. I knew you were a member of lost-academy though. I remember seeing your screen name once. ;)

What can I say? I'm a strange person!

True Initiate
04-05-2009, 12:37 AM
Well you called this thread Philowar by yourself Aleilius!
Are you surpriced? :D

Aleilius
04-05-2009, 12:44 AM
Hehe, I love a good debate! :D

All my posts are always way too serious and formal. I thought I would add a little spice to the mix. It's a long thread, and hopefully it won't disappoint those reading the whole thing. Most of you rarely see this side of me ;)

Of course, I'll probably regret all of this when I'm fully rested.

orangelmx
04-05-2009, 12:50 AM
Thanks Aleilius,

Within the universe there is THE ONE, THE ONE MIND, THE ONE THING, from within, there are whirlpools which creates conscience, and as this consciences crystallize we become individualized from the all, but still the completeness of THE ALL we are.

That is I send you love and peace.

Sincerely
-AumShua

orangelmx
04-05-2009, 01:01 AM
you mentioned there being only one path to the stone would you tell us what path is that ???... sorry for my ignorance.... :rolleyes:

Aleilius
04-05-2009, 01:14 AM
A gentleman never asks, and a lady never tells!

Of course, that would make me the lady in this situation. Not the best analogy. :D

orangelmx
04-05-2009, 01:21 AM
A gentleman never asks, and a lady never tells!

Of course, that would make me the lady in this situation. Not the best analogy. :D

Originally Posted by Dizardos
Very few and not without reason. Alchemy is not an open Art. Those who know little will pretend that they know more than they truly do and those who know much will pretend that they know less than they truly do. If it was the intention of the Philosophers that easy and clear recipes were given that were comprehensible without effort, then surely they will be found in the alchemical collection of three thousand books.

:D

Aleilius
04-05-2009, 01:27 AM
What if I told you everything I've said in this thread is a lie? What if I told you that you were absolutely right? Maybe I'm just trying to dissuade you from finding the real Philosopher's Stone!

Boogli Boogli Boogli! :D

orangelmx
04-05-2009, 01:29 AM
Maybe I'm just trying to dissuade you from finding the real Philosopher's Stone!

Boogli Boogli Boogli! :D

Hehehehe!!!! now you made it laught, God bless your heart :D

The real stone is not without us, each one of us is, when we transmute our led personality, represented by the Moon Lead, into Gold, Gold is represented in the tree of life as the True Self, which the mind is just am extension...

Remember, the one is the universal mind, it only can create mind, as we are created at his image, we only can create the same, the personal mind, which keeps us bind to ignorance which is darkness, one we realized that the master is not the mind with his child the intellect and make it our pet, as we focus our conscience in out true self, we will live in chains represented by the Devil in the Tarot cards.

Thanks for the fun today my friend and take care.

Seth-Ra
04-05-2009, 01:43 AM
What if I told you everything I've said in this thread is a lie? What if I told you that you were absolutely right? Maybe I'm just trying to dissuade you from finding the real Philosopher's Stone!

Boogli Boogli Boogli! :D

hmmm, seems to easy... perhaps you say that because you want em to do the way they are doing, knowing its wrong, so you are deceiving them by giving the "ok". Or, perhaps you knew they would think that, thus they start trying to find the other way. Or maybe you knew they would see that, and are trying to deceive them that way, which means they should do it their original way... ;)

*i thought that would be funny. :D *

Aleilius
04-05-2009, 01:53 AM
Thank you orangelmx. It's been good talking with you. Great fun actually! When discussing such serious topics we have to inject some type of humor into the discussion, or else it becomes way too serious, and tempers start flaring.

---

That is funny Seth-Ra! What can I say? I'm the Lord of Illusions!

It just becomes pointless to debate these subjects. Alchemy is all about personal truth. In the end we must find the way to the Stone by means of our own ingenuity. I realized that it would be pointless to try and convince orangelmx of my notions, and this is the same for any other person. Continue to do what you do if it works for you! Who am I to say differently?

In this art we should always stay curious and possess an open mind. Just don't open it too wide or everything might fall out! It's healthy to maintain a sense skepticism too. :)

orangelmx
04-05-2009, 04:32 AM
Hi Aleiliu,

I did have a lot of fun, a little different from the normal stuff... Thanks!

PS.
One more log to the fire... hehehe... how can you convince me, is you have not provided any path or experience on Alchemy lab.... we need to have an argument for that, which you never provided... :-)

Hephælios
04-05-2009, 06:33 AM
Convincing another of veiled notions is not an easy sport. Instead- see if whatever path you work on follows the "rhythm" of source material. Are you convinced that the matter you work on could come from one, then become two, then three, and finally one again? Would slowly boiling your matter cause it to putrefy? And always ask of the matter, and its application...is it philosophical? You've seen the answers, they've been staring at us since birth...all it takes is sharp keen eyes to see.

horticult
04-06-2009, 12:15 PM
I distilled filtered dew+salt several times. The distillate was again poured on remained salt and distilled again. After the first distillation appeared some "dirt" in salt and the solution turned dirty. After the distillations I filtered it again, solution went clear again and on the filter paper was some grey-black powder. Anybody knows what this dirt is?

Green Lion
04-06-2009, 04:35 PM
Hi Horticult.

This gray/green powder is the beginning of the salt vegetation.
The sea salt, during the work of successive distillations, must pass by various phases.
The first is the black. It is the putrefaction.
The second is the green. It is the vegetation. The sea salt becomes again living and starts again its evolution.
Then we must see the grey then the white.
It is very difficult to obtain the red.
We can stop with the white if it had passed by the black and the green before.
We keep the distilled liquid of this last distillation.
We crush white salt with pure gold sheets.
We add little by little the distilled liquid, very continuously to crush the mixture.
Gold then will dissolve, because it is very related to purified salt.
We then obtain a liquid containing gold in solution.
We filter.
We put this liquid to be distilled.
At the end of distillation, a kind of red/brown gum must remain at the bottom.
It is the sulphur of gold.
We can continue work while putting the distilled liquid on deposit.
The goal is to make gold sufficiently volatile so that it is distilled with the liquid.
When all gold (or a good part) is distilled, we can stop.
It is then enough to let evaporate the distillate.
We have then a yellow/red resin.

It is the Philosopher's stone of this path.

horticult
04-06-2009, 05:15 PM
Hi Green Lion,
thank you very much for this info.
How many aproximate distillations is needed to white?
Are here some hints to speed-up the process /temps, ratio, light etc./?
Is it possible to found somewhere next info about it?

Green Lion
04-06-2009, 05:31 PM
How many aproximate distillations is needed to white?
At least 7 distillations.
10 distillations are often necessary.


Are here some hints to speed-up the process /temps, ratio, light etc./?
Perhaps, but I don't know this "tips".


Is it possible to found somewhere next info about it?
I don't know any text which give more informations than that I have written.

True Initiate
04-06-2009, 08:54 PM
Have you suceeded on this path Green Lion?

Before you put the gold sheets in the dew+salt mixture the first step i think is to dissolve the sea salt in the dew until the dew cann't absorb anymore.

Did you worked this way?

Green Lion
04-06-2009, 09:01 PM
No, I don't made this path.
I just have the informations.
But when I will have time, I will do.


Before you put the gold sheets in the dew+salt mixture the first step i think is to dissolve the sea salt in the dew until the dew cann't absorb anymore.
I don't think this is a good method.
If the dew is saturated with sea salt, how can it absorb or dissolve gold ?
This mix with gold and purified sea salt is described by Gualdus and I think this is the right way.

True Initiate
04-06-2009, 09:02 PM
What are you suggesting then?
What is your theory?

Green Lion
04-06-2009, 09:08 PM
A lot of questions...

In my opinion, concerning the sea salt path, the first goal is to putrefy sea salt then to purify it.
When this salt is enough pure, it can melt at 60°C (I had done this type of sea salt with another way, longer, but it is the same logic).
Its qualities will be differents. So it can mix very intimely with gold.
It can open and volatilise the gold.

So we can dissolve opened gold in the distillate.

If we dissolve sea salt in distillate before adding gold, the qualities of pure sea salt were disappered in the liquid. Then gold should not dissolve in this saturated dew.
That is not what we would have.

True Initiate
04-06-2009, 09:13 PM
What is your method to putrefy sea salt?

Green Lion
04-06-2009, 09:16 PM
All this informations are shared in my preceding post in which I answered to Horticult.

True Initiate
04-06-2009, 09:21 PM
Oh yes, thanks.

It was very interesting reading your posts so i am asking myself how do you know all this?
Are you part of the IAO group?

Green Lion
04-06-2009, 09:23 PM
It was very interesting reading your posts so i am asking myself how do you know all this?
I'm interresting in Alchemy for a long time.
And with practical work, read texts and observe Nature, we learn a lot of things.


Are you part of the IAO group?
No, I am not.

horticult
04-06-2009, 10:43 PM
I did it 7x, what a pity...

OK, I will try to resume it if I got it right:

1. Distill not fully saturated dew+salt repeatedly until again white, temperature does not matter /I used gas/, cca 7-10x.
2. Smash salt with Au, then slowly add the distillate.
3. Filter.
4. Distill again until volatile. How many cca here?

I think I remember you wrote that Gualdus omitted something?

horticult
04-06-2009, 11:06 PM
...is it philosophical? You've seen the answers, they've been staring at us since birth...all it takes is sharp keen eyes to see.
Well, 2 b frank, this word "philosophical" is not much more clear to me than that bleep mercury. Could you illuminate it?

Dizardos
04-06-2009, 11:35 PM
Well, 2 b frank, this word "philosophical" is not much more clear to me than that bleep mercury. Could you illuminate it?

There is a method behind the madness that alchemists seem to employ. The Magnum Opus is different from the works that common chemists undertake. Therefore they have styled attributes that differ from the better known common chemical manipulations 'philosophical'. Reading 'not common' whenever you encounter the word should help. The same is true for mercury. Philosophers will tell you that their mercury is not common mercury. Their mercury is philosophical. The word mercury is thus merely an analogy referring both to certain characteristics of common mercury and the Messenger of the Gods, Mercury, who could change his form at will. Mercurios means Lord of the Waters.

The following words of Great Eliphas Levi will make clear what is truly needed:

"In order to do a thing, we must believe in the possibility of our doing it, and this faith must be forthwith translated into acts. When a child says, 'I cannot,' his mother answers, 'Try.' Faith does not even try; it begins with a certitude of completing, and it proceeds calmly as if Omnipotence were at its disposal and Eternity before it. Dare to formulate your desire, then set to work at once, and do not cease acting after the same manner and for the same end; what you will shall come to pass, and for you and by you it has already begun. Sextus said while watching his flocks: 'I desire to be Pope,' and he became a pope. Believe in your power, then act! An idle person will never become a Magician. Magic is an exercise of all hours and all moments. Know, dare, will, keep silence! Thus you become a magnet to attract to you all things in heaven and in earth."

Green Lion
04-07-2009, 01:41 AM
1. Distill not fully saturated dew+salt repeatedly until again white, temperature does not matter /I used gas/, cca 7-10x.
2. Smash salt with Au, then slowly add the distillate.
3. Filter.
4. Distill again until volatile. How many cca here?

1. Distill fully saturated dew+salt repeatedly until again white, temperature does not matter cca 7-10x. After the green/gray, heat more the salt, alone, between two distillations. Not to melt it, but almost. When the salt is hot, put it in the distillate. You should use a furnace to heat the salt alone.
2. Smash salt with Au, then slowly add the distillate and continue to smash.
3. Filter.
4. Distill again until volatile. I don't know how many times will be necessary.


I think I remember you wrote that Gualdus omitted something?
Yes, Gualdus don't give informations concerning the work to be done after dissolution of the gold + sea salt mix into the distillate.

Aleilius
04-07-2009, 02:40 AM
I don't think this is a true putrefication, but if you guys can make the Stone from dew & sea salt I will eat my words! :)

horticult
04-07-2009, 10:26 AM
Maybe its a philosophical putrefaction ;) . Anyway, here is something similar:
http://www.alchemywebsite.com/lully_experiments.html

Aleilius
04-07-2009, 09:26 PM
Haha, that's a good one horticult! A philosophical putrefaction is new to me. :D

Good link though.

orangelmx
04-08-2009, 11:18 PM
All this informations are shared in my preceding post in which I answered to Horticult.

Hi Green lion,

With all your respect but the things you write don´t make sense.... can you share were are you getting all this info... :)

Thanks!

Green Lion
04-09-2009, 04:56 AM
Hi Green lion,

With all your respect but the things you write don´t make sense.... can you share were are you getting all this info...
Sorry, I'm very bad in English.

See the #84 message of this subject (philowar).

horticult
04-09-2009, 11:11 AM
IMHO it makes sense. Its similar to Leyden /& in Secret Teaching is distillation!/ & instead of long putrefactions here is distillation. Similar processes mentioned also Lully and Gualdus. Maybe its not the TOP philosophical universal stone, but stone.

Green Lion, would you info us about the effects&usage of this stone?
I also think to do it not fully saturated, cause of "leaks" during the processes so the salt can be again fully dissolved. I am looking for to start this experiment!

Green Lion
04-09-2009, 06:31 PM
Green Lion, would you info us about the effects&usage of this stone?
I also think to do it not fully saturated, cause of "leaks" during the processes so the salt can be again fully dissolved. I am looking for to start this experiment!
Like I said before, I don't have done this way.
So I don't know the effects of the Stone obtained by this process.
I think that the result could give a great medicine.
For the transmutation, I am not very convinced that the result will be very interesting. Perhaps a little quantity of gold.

orangelmx
04-09-2009, 07:01 PM
Hi green lion and thanks for all your posts,

but...

Like I said before, I don't have done this way.
.

That is why I am asking you where did you get this info....

Thanks!!:D

Green Lion
04-09-2009, 08:45 PM
See my posts 29 and 31 :
I have read this process in "Selected Chemical Universal and Particular Processes" of Baron Von RUESENSTEIN.
Frederico Gualdus told about this process in this text.

orangelmx
04-09-2009, 08:53 PM
See my posts 29 and 31 :
I have read this process in "Selected Chemical Universal and Particular Processes" of Baron Von RUESENSTEIN.
Frederico Gualdus told about this process in this text.

Thanks you man!!! I have the RAMS collections I will look into. :D

Dizardos
04-10-2009, 06:00 PM
Philosophers say: Those who do not know what they seek, do not know what they will find. Without a Cornerstone that will function as the Foundation of Art, 'Philosophies' will not stand the test of time and crumble until only dust is left.

True Initiate
04-20-2009, 04:25 AM
As it seems this thread was one of the most quiets threads ever. :D

Aleilius
04-20-2009, 12:29 PM
Haha, that's an understatement True Puffer!

This thread has more posts than any other thread in the history of AF. :D

Awani
04-20-2009, 01:51 PM
This thread has more posts than any other thread in the history of AF.

Depends on how you look at it... threads that have been moved here have many posts copied into ONE single post...

:cool:

Play_Dough
04-20-2009, 10:04 PM
edited.....

... Philosophers will tell you that their mercury is not common mercury. Their mercury is philosophical. The word mercury is thus merely an analogy referring both to certain characteristics of common mercury and the Messenger of the Gods, Mercury, who could change his form at will. Mercurios means Lord of the Waters.


Good Morning!

The ancient art of astrology assists in defining the term 'Philosophical Mercury'.

Mercury, the planet, is the planet closest to the Sun.
In the ancient astrological cosmology the planet farthest from the Sun was Saturn.

So, the structure, thus far, is:
Sun = Light / Gold
Mercury = mental focus, quicksilver, our thoughts
Saturn = Lead or those aspects of the alchemist that are 'the farthest (furthest) from the light of the Sun.

When lead is molten it behaves like mercury/quicksilver. However, molten lead solidifies into 'gobs of lead' unless placed into a 'form' or 'mold (a form or matrix).

The alchemical symbolism suggests that our most consistent 'thoughts' (Mercury) gradually 'solidify' into a 'reality'.... represented by the solidified lead.
That reality can be 'good' and pleasant or the reverse. If the 'reality' is unpleasant then the 'lead' must go into the fires to become liquid and able to be 're-shaped' by the alchemist.

The inescapable conclusion is that 'thoughts' are creative and our most passionate thoughts, over time, create a 'reality'.

This interpretation (above) lends assistance in decoding some of the secrets of The Emerald Tablet, once the new alchemist becomes familiar with the alchemical attributes of 'salt', 'sulphur' and 'Mercury' (The alchemical blessed trinity of all matter).

An alchemical tale:

The Master Alchemist instructs her apprentice:

Master - "Place a measure (1 oz.) of mercury/quicksilver on the top of the workbench and on a pane ( 8 x 8 inches) of glass and then tell me what you observe".

Apprentice - "The quicksilver is in a small puddle with a few drops outside of the puddle".

Master - "Using an appropriate implement now gently stir the puddle of quicksilver/mercurius and tell me what you notice".

Apprentice - "The quicksilver moves easily and now the 'puddle' has separated into hundreds of small independent drops".

Master - "This experiment, so far, represents the 'most probable' condition of the mind of the new apprentice. Considering that "Mercurius" represents 'thoughts' then the hundreds of scattered droplets of 'Mercurius/quicksilver' represents an untrained mind which wanders from thought to thought and, as a result, scatters or weakens it's creative powers".

Apprentice - "How can one stabilize his or her 'Mercurius', Master? It appears to be the nature of mercurius/quicksilver to scatter"?

Master - "The Mercurius/quicksilver was 'un-scattered' while in it's container. The alchemist must 'prepares a container' to house his or her mercurius/quicksilver."

Apprentice - "Huh?"

Master - "Take one ounce of powdered sulphur and place it on the glass next to the Mercurius/quicksilver droplets and then mix the quicksilver into the sulphur and tell me what it is that you observe".

Apprentice - "Master!, the Mercurius/quicksilver is absorbed into the sulphur and is now no longer in a liquid state! The mercurius is, kind of, 'fixed' and capable of only minimal self movement. The Mercurius/quicksilver has slowed down".

Master - This result represents (partially) your present condition. Your 'Mercurius' is 'all tied up' in the sulphur. The 'sulphur' represents your ego and disposition and desires and duties and everything that is 'self-related'.
In other words, your 'self' (sulphur) has captivated 'Mercurius' and now (presently) limits the 'Mercurius' to 'one shape' out of the infinite shapes that Mercurius can form, depending upon the 'container' into which it is placed".

Apprentice - "Can the captivated Mercurius ever be freed to take another shape"?

Master - "Place the mixture (Mercurius/Sulphur) into a tempered glass vial and then place the vial over a gentle flame and then tell me what you observe. Take care to not allow the flame to come into direct contact with the mixture".

Apprentice - "Master!!!! , the Mercurius has re-liquified and has separated from the sulphur. I believe that I could, gradually, separate all of the Mercurius from the suplhur if I proceeded gently and with great ingenuity!".

Master - "Excellent! Now please tell me about 'The One'. 'The One' about whom The Emerald Tablet refers".

Apprentice - "Duhhhhhhh......, I don't know"?

Master - "Construct a mental template (thought form) of the characteristics and temperament of 'The One", knowing that you can revise your mental construct if you choose".

Apprentice - "O.K., 'The One' is gentle, observant, kind, guiding, ingenious, and
is the 'Ultimate Master Alchemist'. How is that for starters, Master?"

Master - "Very good". Now re-mix the Mercurius and sulphur and abandon your former-self and begin to become 'The One' as you have described.

Apprentice - "What about the 'salt' Master"? Where does 'the salt' enter into the alchemical cosmology"?

Master - "We will deal with 'the salt' at a later time. For now, just be aware that 'the salt' is 'the context' into which the alchemist enters with his or her re-mixed 'Mercurius/quicksilver' ".

Apprentice - "I think that I understand, a little anyway. Why, the implications boggle the mind!

Master - A brilliant abstract observation, compliments of the re-mix of your 'inner' Mercurius/quicksilver and sulphur. Mercurius is a shape-shifter and assumes the shape and many of the characteristics of 'it's container'.

Apprentice - (excitedly) "Can I now get the 'salt' and experiment further"?

Master - "You are to proceed with great diligence, without urgency. The emphasis is now to place 'The One', as you have described, foremost in your thoughts.
As you proceed in your alchemical experiments you are advised to be ever-mindful of 'The One' and, as a result, 'The One' will guide you, via Mercurius which is 'The Messenger of the Gods". It is a requirement to first change 'one's inner self' before one radically changes his or her 'external reality'.
You are to be mindful that 'Mercury', misused, can be highly highly toxic so behave accordingly, and after you have gained some measure of enlightened control over your spurious thoughts we will then proceed to a discussion about 'salt'. In the meantime, please clean up the workbench and then let's practice 'body-surfing' because the tide is now coming in and the waves should be amazing."

Apprentice - "As you command, Master, always, as you command me!" Cowabunga !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

______
Note: Link regarding health related information regarding mercury/quicksilver http://www.dsf.health.state.pa.us/health/cwp/view.asp?a=171&q=231514
_____

.

.

True Initiate
04-21-2009, 08:31 AM
Here is a good "flaming" material (with pictures) for this thread. :D

The failure of the two processes that "master" *** made "famous"!

The Zinc Acetate Process
http://www.lost-academy.com/practical-alchemy-f1/progress-with-the-zinc-acetate-process-t148.htm

The "VOLPIERRE" Process
http://www.lost-academy.com/practical-alchemy-f1/the-volpierre-process-t144.htm

Your "flaming" comments are welcome!

Tesposinus
05-01-2009, 09:39 PM
If you want to see a false transmutation made by Patrick Rivière, you can see a TV documentary on alchemy in this site...
I was wondering... what exactly was it about this transmutation that made it fake? I'm sorry if the question may seem idiotic to those of you who understood the documentary, but it is simply because my French is horrible so I understood practically nothing of the video. But I still found it rather interesting so I saved it onto my computer and am considering having English subtitles added to it, if I can find a way to get it all translated somehow.

Anyway... I would love to hear what about this particular transmutation was fake. Was the end product not pure gold? Was it something Patrick Rivière did, like scamming or something similar?

P.S. Sorry if this question was aimed at a rather old post. :) I hope that is not a bother to anyone.

Green Lion
05-03-2009, 08:33 AM
Was the end product not pure gold?
Exactly.
In fact, Patrick has set the gold from a ring (18 carats, copper and silver in known proportions) at the bottom of the crucible heating. Then he added the plombagine (same material as the crucible) in small quantities over the gold.
You can also see this "trick" in the documentary, if you look well the crucible in which the mercury is put.
When the crucible was heating, the mercury has evaporated.
Then the gold content in the crucible melted.
And the result is a mixture of gold, silver and copper, whose proportions and weight showed that is a gold from a ring.

Tesposinus
05-03-2009, 02:17 PM
Green Lion, thank you very much for clarifying that. I greatly appreciate it.

It's sad, isn't it?! I mean, people who show off false transmutations like that which only end up discrediting alchemy and genuine practitioners. Personally I have no desire whatsoever to demonstrate transmutations of any kind to spectators. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I myself know the truth of our Art and so do other alchemists. To me this is all that matters, not what other people think or believe. But still... when a person does profess to perform alchemical transmutations for a TV documentary, it is very sad that such an individual does not simply do it rather than lying to people. If he is incapable of performing transmutations due to lack of experience and skill, then he should not be dealing with it in the first place. Then it should be left to those who have developed that far on the path of the Magnum Opus. And if they are not interested in participating in such demonstrations, then that is the way it shall be!

Just my humble opinion... :)

Heartofgold
07-05-2009, 07:09 PM
I t appears that even *** has become disallusioned with the Leyden method. I can't help but think that this is premature.

I decided to try it, after checking his web site back in May. I look from time to time to see what's the latest. Leyden didn't involve stinking waste(GW),corrosive acids(Volpierre), or messy distillations(Sodium Acetate). I could run this without banishing the grandkids or busting the budget. I didn't give it much chance of success, as most of ***'s processes haven't worked out. Here's my admission list:

PH swings - The gold disappears long before a 100 swings. It sticks to the glass or
can't be removed from the salt.

GW - What oil? I saw enough a time or two to say "that could be the oil..." Either
you have or you don't.

Sodium Acetate - Even *** admitted that it didn't work by itself. Makes a
stinking mess out of expensive flasks though. The oils that
appeared on the acetone didn't dissolve any metals.

Zinc Acetate - Jury is still out. Pennies take forever to dissolve in 5% Vinegar. Still
have some around that I never distilled.

Volpierre - After having the mere presence of Sulfuric acid corrode all the metal in my lab space, I don't think I want to try it. Besides, I never saw a clear explanation of what to do after the 7 distillations.

So why would I listen to Nick? Because he's an incurable optimist and publicist. So I check out what he's up to from time to time. If anyone ever reveals a process that actually works, its likely to be him. Besides, there is plenty of evidence for properly prepared salts producing benefits. The Stone? Its not completely implausible, just not likely.

Anyway, I collected some dew, dissolved Alessi Sea salt in it without waiting for putrefaction. I had to restart at least once. The first attempt used a wine cooler/warmer set at 120. It turned itself off after a few days and was stone cold when I found it. I set another batch to digest for 40 days. I was able to control the temp very accurately with a egg incubator thermostat and about 40 ohms worth of misc heater elements. It was 118 to 120.4 for the duration. I decided to use a hot plate for the Sand Bath part of the cycle. I had a little more trouble maintaining the temperature. Somebody unplugged it on me and it got down to 148 before I caught it. Mostly 210 to 230, though.

I had used some waterproof glue to try and improve the seal on the bottles. The bottles were wire Bail sealed, with a rubber ring.
When I took the bottles out, I notice that the glue had run down inside of one of the bottles, indicating a compromised seal. I elected not to continue with that bottle.
I decided to taste it and see if it had changed at all after 40 days. It was distinctly sweet with a penetrating bite to the aftertaste! Just as expected but after only 40 days!
I didn't try to dissolve metal with it as it seemed likely to be a little weak.
Is it an Elixir? I had distinct effects on my sleep. Not particularly on my dreams. I was fatigued for a few days then had a return of energy.
I have gotten the impression that whatever was in the bottle wasn't fixed as it seems to have gotten weaker over time. I didn't continue to incubate it or do anything else to retain the "Fire".
I would conclude from this that at least one error occurs in the Leyden letter. If you are able to retain the "Fire", it doesn't have to be tightly sealed.
Incidentally, the Lully salt method seems to bear this out. My guess is that Lully's method is quite inefficient requiring too numerous dissolvings and coagulations. A few modern additions ought to make it more efficient.

The trick seems to be the Philosophical "Fire". Not enough can be collected at one time to complete the Salt at once, but it has to be fixed before more can be added.
Several sources imply that fairly high temps are required to fix the salt, but Leyden implies that much lower temps suffice.

I returned my second bottle to Balneo Marium today and looked carefully at the contents. There were quite a few long white crystals in the bottom of the bottle. They didn't appear to be NaCl as they were needle like. They are almost white.

IMO, if you didn't get any results from Leyden, you neglected something. I am still not expecting to dissolve gold or silver, but a nice Elixir would be cool!

I have enough success at this point to see it through in spite of the naysayers. I am working out the details of a modified Lully method. I have some salt distilling by fabric now.
I would like to get a small electric kiln for a furnace. Nice ones' turn up on Craigslist from time to time. I could use it to make my own crucibles, etc.

Carlos

Aleilius
07-05-2009, 07:18 PM
I'm glad you're getting results, but this naysayer isn't buying it. I see that you're new here, and so I would rather encourage you to post an introduction. :)


Besides, there is plenty of evidence for properly prepared salts producing benefits.
Could you source your evidence please?


I had used some waterproof glue to try and improve the seal on the bottles. The bottles were wire Bail sealed, with a rubber ring.
When I took the bottles out, I notice that the glue had run down inside of one of the bottles, indicating a compromised seal. I elected not to continue with that bottle.
Even if the other one didn't look compromised I would still be worried. You should've luted your bottles. That's what the old alchemists did, and they hardly ever failed.


If anyone ever reveals a process that actually works, its likely to be him.
I think that's a pretty high and mighty thing to say. A process that actually works? You mean for making the Philosopher's Stone? I call your bluff. *** won't be able to reveal the process to make it, because he doesn't know how. Why not start learning the art of Alchemy yourself? Study the works of the masters, and stop listening to ***. Go directly to the source material instead of through a proxy like ***.

You shouldn't need people to reveal processes to you. That is not how you learn, but rather it's an act of following directions.

EDIT: I'm sorry, this post of mine might be out of line, but this is a subject I care for very deeply. I fel it's necessary to apologize beforehand.

Heartofgold
07-05-2009, 09:13 PM
I'm glad you're getting results, but this naysayer isn't buying it. I see that you're new here, and so I would rather encourage you to post an introduction. :)

My post was a partial intro...I'll see if more is warranted



Could you source your evidence please?

Perhaps, but I see no reason to labor for a skeptic.



Even if the other one didn't look compromised I would still be worried. You should've luted your bottles. That's what the old alchemists did, and they hardly ever failed.

Worried? I offered proof that a seal wasn't even necessary here...Oh yeah, Luting is really the way to go!...Thats why modern chemist still use it all the time..:)



I think that's a pretty high and mighty thing to say. A process that actually works? You mean for making the Philosopher's Stone? I call your bluff. *** won't be able to reveal the process to make it, because he doesn't know how. Why not start learning the art of Alchemy yourself? Study the works of the masters, and stop listening to ***. Go directly to the source material instead of through a proxy like ***.

He doesn't but you do?
As for the "Art of Alchemy", I have seldom seen a more superstitious, prescientific collection of gobbledygook as in the work of the "Masters". They were forgotten in the first place for good reason. For a variety of reasons I don't reject Alchemy out of hand, but I see limited value in the "Masters".
I've spent plenty of time, wading through McLean's site and Rexresearch among others. As for Frater Albertus? He's been pretty thoroughly exposed.


You shouldn't need people to reveal processes to you. That it not how you learn, but rather it's an act of following directions.

What do you rely on then, Spirits? Anytime you try something, even following directions, you learn. I implied that I had hit upon a method of using the "Alchemical Fire", but you missed that. I put "Fire" in quotes because I think its BS. My differences from ***'s method aren't based on following directions. Its not based on the "Masters", but other knowledge. Time will tell if it actually is true. If so, I can use it on other processes too.

Oh, thanks for the warm welcome. Or did I misunderstand your tone?

Carlos

.

kerkring
07-06-2009, 03:18 AM
As for Frater Albertus? He's been pretty thoroughly exposed.

Do you know by whom and in which ways?

Aleilius
07-06-2009, 03:39 AM
My post was a partial intro...I'll see if more is warranted
There's a section for introductions. This is not the proper place, and your post in this thread should not have served as a 'partial' introduction. I have no need to hear anymore from you. Of course, this doesn't mean that our other members wouldn't mind hearing more about you.


Perhaps, but I see no reason to labor for a skeptic.
This works both ways, and I can't believe I'm wasting my time and energy on you.


As for the "Art of Alchemy", I have seldom seen a more superstitious, prescientific collection of gobbledygook as in the work of the "Masters". They were forgotten in the first place for good reason. For a variety of reasons I don't reject Alchemy out of hand, but I see limited value in the "Masters".
Blasphemy of the highest order. This speaks for itself. :(


I've spent plenty of time, wading through McLean's site and Rexresearch among others.
Well, I'll have to believe you, but I highly doubt you have any idea what you're talking about (until you prove otherwise).


What do you rely on then, Spirits?
No, I rely on reason, insight, and the words of the masters (which you apparently scorn). Since you do not rely on the words of the masters, then I must ask, what do you rely on? Pixie dust of some sort? Oh no, let me guess! It's that blasted dew and sea salt "elixir" you're taking right? That's how it comes to you! :D


Oh, thanks for the warm welcome. Or did I misunderstand your tone?
My tone was nice, possibly a bit condescending, but I had good intentions. However, after seeing your tone, I figured I'd match it, and even raise you! This is the heated debate thread. So there should be no surprise my replies are heated.

----

Look, I had no problem with your post until I read this: "If anyone ever reveals a process that actually works, its likely to be him." I just don't see where you come off saying such a thing. It's beyond me. From that point, I decided to goad you forward to gauge your reaction. Your reply was as expected, and my assessment was accurate. If you think you know something, you better be DAMN sure you know it, because there are others that DO know it, and some WILL call you out. I happen to be one of those.

I want to be clear here: when I say such things, I am not acting as the Super Moderator of this board. It is not the opinion of alchemyforums.com. It's my own personal opinion. This forum welcomes all forms of alchemy, alchemists of all skill levels, and we encourage members to develop their own perspective of the art. I do not censor any specific topics, and I allow free discussion to flourish with great abundance.

With this being said, this does not mean I have to agree with you, and likewise you do not have to agree with me. I am entitled to say what I want to say, how I want to say it, and how many times I want to say it. Just as you are.

I will continue to back up my own personal philosophy with great vehemence. I will argue with you, I will debate you, and I will tell you that you're wrong. As I exercise my rights, you should also seek to exercise your rights, but please remember to keep your posts within certain bounds.

Heartofgold
07-06-2009, 01:37 PM
I didn't really want to begin my membership here with a pissing contest, so I'll ignore most of this. You have contributed a lot, but I also notice an arrogant dismissive attitude. I may be sorry I lost a potential friend, but I doubt it.

As for the "Art of Alchemy", I have seldom seen a more superstitious, prescientific collection of gobbledygook as in the work of the "Masters". They were forgotten in the first place for good reason. For a variety of reasons I don't reject Alchemy out of hand, but I see limited value in the "Masters".

"Blasphemy of the highest order. This speaks for itself."


Blasphemy? Well excuse me, I didn't realize I was insulting your little stony god or its prophets.
Who's profane? you or me? Now that's a pissing contest! :)

BTW, I respect the religious profession and apparent morals of many of the Masters. I realize that their "Science" was based on very limited knowledge. I also know they relied on subtle observations missed by moderns. On the other hand, give me a break! 4 elements? Sulphurs? Even "Mercury"... Modern science has given us much more exact methods. Even in the Fringe Sciences progress had been made.

I don't have much patience with the tendency of many students of Alchemy to not move on. Unless your are discussing ancient texts, why encumber yourself with outmoded terms and concepts? We are mostly dealing with high school level chemistry.

Many of the so called Masters were playing a game. They wrote in a way that others would believe they possessed knowledge of the Stone without revealing anything practical. Some of course were attempting to pass on knowledge without revealing secrets to the profane. That I can respect. I don't think it applies to our time.

Arrogance is a greater enemy of knowledge and progress than ignorance.

Carlos

Heartofgold
07-06-2009, 01:44 PM
"As for Frater Albertus? He's been pretty thoroughly exposed.
Do you know by whom and in which ways?"
__________________
Art Kunkin was his long time editor. He had the resources and knew all the students. He knew what was going on. Somewhere I have material on it. If people are interested I may post some excerpts

Carlos

Oops, its not Kunkle

Ghislain
07-06-2009, 05:02 PM
Mullah Nasrudin lost his key. He was looking on the ground for it.
A friend finally asked him where he lost it.
He said "In the house". "Why are you looking out here then"? asked his friend.
"There's more light our here" He answered :D

Mullah is just like me :)

theFool
07-06-2009, 05:50 PM
Heartofgold:
If anyone ever reveals a process that actually works, its likely to be him.
Aleilius, if you look again this sentence you will see that Heartofgold is refering to *** ironicaly, he doesn't mean it seriously. Look again the full paragraph:

So why would I listen to Nick? Because he's an incurable optimist and publicist. So I check out what he's up to from time to time. If anyone ever reveals a process that actually works, its likely to be him. Besides, there is plenty of evidence for properly prepared salts producing benefits. The Stone? Its not completely implausible, just not likely.

He is not any of those "*** warriors", I think you misunderstood.


Heartofgold:
Oh, thanks for the warm welcome.


Be sure that I welcome you and would appreciate if you stay "on board" with us.

horticult
07-07-2009, 11:58 AM
Welcome Heartofgold,
thx for your long lab report.
One of the few to the point on this forum ;). /In salt thread./

Salt is certainly important, we can not live without it.

Spiralwave
08-08-2009, 08:37 AM
Just joined and this is second thread I have read. Totally dig this forum and the posts.

I have one small comment and I have to say I am new to alchemy and just beginning to learn. But it's all part of the same pattern of truth.

I have always been heavy into mysticism and so that is how I was attracted to reading The Emerald Tablet and that led to ultimately me wanting to learn alchemy.

I learn from everything and everywhere. Old masters and current alchemists. The time of secrets is over but we have old books that were written in the time when it was important to keep secrets for very good reasons. So it is a trip to learn from old books but possible and available and once you learn the codes you get hints.

It is a new day and there are more people practicing alchemy then ever before and more in contact with each other as well. It's all different now and many will make big strides and share it openly now.

Wish I had something of value to add other then my encouragement to everyone.

peace! ;)

Ghislain
08-19-2009, 09:41 PM
Those are not my words. Does the following sentence from the Emerald Tablet make any sense in the above context: "Earth must be separated from fire"?

Could that not be just as simple as volcanic lava?

Salazius
08-20-2009, 08:12 AM
The time of secrets is over but we have old books that were written in the time when it was important to keep secrets for very good reasons.

No the time of secrets is not over at all, Alchemy is a Secret and Silent Science by Nature. It is like that. That's all. You uncover secrets by opening yourself, that's part of the initiation.

rogerc
03-01-2012, 11:49 AM
I know this thread has not been wriiten in for some time.......but sea salt/saltpeter made fusible by dew only gives philosophical salt, our secret fire, it can be used alone for some purposes but it is not a finished stone, he is only the priest that presides over the marriage of philosophical sulfur and philosophical mercury, red man to white wife, he's the referee that officiates over the battle between the fiery salmander and icy remora of Cyrano. " La Rosee Brule le Sel " The Dew Burns the Salt" by Roger Guasco also gives the protocol.

alfr
03-02-2012, 01:25 AM
Hi dear Rogerc and every body

Yes sure that is very interesting Roger Guasco process (roger guasco (as we have just see) have this methods: one mercury ph formed by elaboration of sublimatic of mercuri and antimony etc one is zolto ph formed by elaboration of realgar,one is salt ph ( formed by elaboration in crucible higt temperature of sea salt and dew salt ) etc and this method arrived at rode guasco by the lignage of the one of mastres of -fulcanelli group-lodge- ( -fulcanelli group-lodge- as very well explains ‎Dubois Geneviève‎ in her very very goob book Fulcanelli dévoilé 1992 éd.Dervy ) and so is also for this that the realgar is one of the very secret matters that -( group lodge) fulcanelli-put it description etc in his books ) so this elaboration-union of this important 2 salt is sure very inportant . Now bout the Roger Guaso salts (as i just say in the pas) i have work for many years with him method and in particulary with the instruction of salt - and with this the instruction of roger guasco about salts (see under this with also the photo of the result salt color orange arrive oafter many fusion of this 2 salt ) - that some group very closed in french and italy that say (so by this they have different opinion to the opinion of Roger Guasco) that they use only these 2 matter and crucible (with very higt temperature )for made alkaest and also the Philosophical Stone with only this 2 salts so they made this with only 2 salt in dry way with high temperature and -i put this instruction here under- also they say that this is the sane instruction abd the same method of of Nicolas Grosparmy that he give in him book the of the Tresor de Tresor -i put him instruction part operative sorry but is in french- )

But i think IMHO after i have work with this metodology fos many time with this methos is that this 2 salt and it combinations is a one very very big door, but maybe is better used this 2 salt with not a one dry way to very higt temperature ( hat maybe is not good for this matters ) but maybe is more interesting elboration this 2 salts with very soft temperature and dissolution and redissolution and cristallissation and recristallissation this 2 salts and the union of this 2 salt for many time in the night in dissolution under the ray of the full moon and of the emanation sideral the there are in this special sideral time and they use one salt for attract other as made the method of Solutuo Salts Paracelsus and i think if as made this as arrived some more very very interesting result ...

my best regards alfr

http://herve.delboy.perso.sfr.fr/tresor_grosparmy.html


NICOLAS GROSPARMY LE TRESOR DE TRESOR LE SECOND CHAPITRE

De la Préparation

Au nom de Notre Seigneur, tu prendras de l'innaturel une partie de l'innaturel corps, c'est à savoir d'Argent fin, et demie partie du corps naturel, c'est à savoir fin Or, qui soient bien purgés, l'Or par le Ciment, et l'Argent par la Cendre ; et garde iceux à part, et les mettras en petites lamines ténues comme papier, et lors ils seront bien préparés.

LE TIERS CHAPITRE

De faire le Menstrual

Tu prendras six onces de Vitriol et trois onces de sel de pierres, que broieras finement, puis mettras en un vaisseau de verre, et auras un vaisseau propre de la profondeur de demi-pied, et de quatre doigts de large, lequel ait bord tout autour de la gueule, afin qu'il se puisse arrêter sur la gueule du fourneau sur lequel tu veux que l'ouvrage se fasse ; auquel fourneau feu continuel doit être depuis le commencement du Magistère jusqu’à la fin sans défaillir. Car infrigidations et caléfactions sont la mort de nôtre Pierre, auquel fourneau où le feu soit continué en tel degré qu'il n'excède point le mouvement de la matière. Car tu vois que grande flamme détruit, et nuit à la petite flambe, et pour ce continue ton ouvrage d'une main, sans toi hâter par fort feu, ne sans délaisser refroidir ; car ton ouvrage et le fruit d'icelui serait perdu, et pour néant croirai d'icelui compost faire après chose qui te convienne et pour ce ne t'ennuyé la longue demeure ; car les couleurs te montreront et condui-ront ton entendement de l'un à l'autre jusqu’à la fin du Magistère.


LE QUATRIEME CHAPITRE

De la mixtion des Matériaux

Tu prendras une once d'Argent fin préparé, comme dessus est dit, et sept onces de poudre appelée Menstrual préparé en poudre, comme dessus est dit ; et mêle les lamines d'Argent avec, en les broyant sur une table de verre épaisse avec une molette de verre, tant et si continuellement qu'il n'apparaisse ne l'un ne l'autre ; après boute tout en ton vaisseau, fait comme dessus est dit, lequel ait un couvercle justement fermant par-dessus la gueule dudit vaisseau ; et le pose sur ton fourneau, lequel soit rond, de la largeur d'un pied par-dedans et épois de demi-pied et plus afin qu'il tienne plus longuement sa chaleur, et que ledit four ait un étage au milieu, sur lequel étage tu feras le feu.
Et que parmi ledit étage et tout autour des côtés dudit fourneau, soient plusieurs trous ronds comme pour passer le doigt ; par lesquels trous les Cendres tomberons au fond du fourneau, et si tu fais feu de charbon il vaudra mieux que de bois, [le charbon est l'agent réducteur par excellence] et mieux de roue. Et pour le premier étage du bas jusqu’à celui du milieu, il faut demi-pied de haut ; et doit avoir ledit étage, c'est à savoir l'âtre percé demi-pied d'épaisseur ; et depuis ledit étage ou astre jusqu’au sommet du four un grand pied ; car quand ton vaisseau sera assis dedans la gueule du sommet dudit fourneau, il entrera dedans demi-pied ; ainsi ne demeurera que demi-pied de clair sous le cul de ton vaisseau jusqu’à la terre, et faut que le feu batte tout autour de ton vaisseau par-dedans ledit fourneau, en tenant ton vaisseau couvert de son couvercle ; sinon quand tu voudras voir ta matière, lors allume ton feu de menu charbon en échauffant, jusqu'à tant que tu voies ta matière muer couleur en verdure tirant à jauneur, et te garde bien d'augmenter ton feu, mais soit continué en icelle chaleur, sans jamais laisser le feu s'éteindre.
Et en cette continuation est accomplie la première partie de solution qui est le coït de nature, et tellement te faut continuer ladite chaleur, que la matière vienne en couleur noire, laquelle noirceur te démontre que la matière est bien pourrie, et que le feu de nature est excité par son contraire, et fortifié, et bien épandu par toute la matière, et qu'il se prend à batailler contre l'humeur menstrual qui le tenait hébété. Et par longue continuation icelle noirceur persévérera, jusqu'à tant que les Eléments viendront à unité ; et lors est la matière au plus loin de son attrempement, en la fin d'icelui degré qu'elle puisse être, qui est dite Corruption et par autres Solution.
La Noirceur passée commence la Blancheur à apparaître par-dessus ; et par longue continuation de feu, bien attrempée ladite matière vient à parfaite blancheur, qui est par aucuns nommée le commencement de la vie de nôtre Pierre, et la nativité d'icelle, et par autres le commencement de Congélation non vulgaire, mais philosophale. [cela correspond au « germe » de la Pierre, c'est-à-dire au tout début de la cristallisation ; notez qu'il ne s'agit là que d'une conjecture] La matière première blanchie par sa vertu donne force et vertu de blanchir, et lors Nature désire de séparer le subtil de l'épais, pour ce que au point de la blancheur est infusée l'Ame en son Corps ; c'est à savoir vertu minérale, qui est plus subtile que le feu ; car ce n'est seulement que Quintessence et Vie, qui désire naître et soi dépouiller de ses grosses fèces terreuses, qui lui étaient venues à cause du menstrual et de la corruption. Et en ce est nôtre Sublimation, et non point au Vif argent vulgairement entendu.

LE CINQUIEME CHAPITRE

Nous avons ci-dessus parlé de l'œuvre du blanc Elixir, maintenant nous dirons du rouge. Tu prendras le compost blanc, ainsi blanchi comme dessus est dit, et épandras ton Or en ténues feuilles et menues, et les épandras sur ladite matière rendue blanche, et couvriras ton vaisseau et le laisseras en feu continuel, tourneront en poudres rouges qui sont clamées Elixir. Alors Ainsi auras double minière, et si tu n'y faisais administration de Soufre rouge, et que le feu fût continué, tout tournerait en poudres blanches, puis jaunes, qui seraient Elixir de l'Argent, duquel si un poids tombe sur mil de Cuivre, ou d'aucun des autres métaux corrompus, il les tournera en fin Or ou Argent, selon que la matière est au blanc ou au rouge ; pour ce que le métal qui se doit transmuer, tire et suce à lui toute la spiritualité de ladite médecine, qui le guérit et le boute au profond de son cœur, lequel souffrait léprosité, en séparant toute le flegme et la graisse terrestre, tellement qu'il est dépouillé de sa première forme et figure, et reçoit nouvelle forme ; c'est à savoir d'Or ou d'Argent, selon que le compost est blanc ou rouge ; lequel métal transformé, soit Plomb, Fer, Cuivre, ou Etain, résiste mieux contre le ciment que ne fait l'Or naturel et l'Argent meilleur que de minière ; et pour ce disons-nous à tous qu'ils se gardent d'user d'Or d'Alchimie sans appeler Nature.
Car il n'est point de vrai Or que celui que Nature fait, ou celui de nôtre Maîtrise, lequel est meilleur pour les Vertus qu'il a acquises en nôtre dite Maîtrise ; et n'est pas tel comme l'Or sophiste tout plein d'impuretés, que plusieurs naïfs sophistes composent par poudres étrangères, et ne croient point qu'il soit d'autre Alchimie naïve. Et quand ils voient leur Or en couleur par application de poudres étrangères, ils disent qu'il est fort multiplié, et il est moult diminué de toutes ses Vertus : et pour ce, l'Or et l'Argent de tels ouvriers ne soutient point le feu, mais se brûle et retourne en terre, pour ce qu'ils ne lui ont su intégrer le cours de Nature ; et en sorte qu'ils aient l'art d'extraire les Mercures, toutefois ils ne sont pas parvenus ès dépurations, et demeurent les pures parties avec les impures ; et quand ils sentent le feu ils se corrompent avec toute leur substance, pour tous les Soufres étrangers qui les a tous consumés.
Et pour ce, faisons nous à savoir aux médecins qui usent de médecines condimentales, qu'ils se gardent comme ils useront d'Or d'Alchimie ; pour ce que l'Or sophiste est tout infect et plein de corrosifs, pour ce qu'ils ne l'ont su dépouiller du feu contre nature. [ceci est absolument exact. Le soi disant or potable des alchimistes ne pouvait être qu'un poison violent ; seul au XXe siècle, ls médecins ont-ils trouvé la formule des sels d'or qu'on utilise couramment dans des rhumatismes inflammatoires chroniques comme la polyarthrite rhumatoïde ; mais depuis lors, les médecins ont encore fait mieux et utilisent certains médicaments dont les alchimistes n'auraient jamais pu rêver...Tout ce qu'on dit les alchimistes au sujet de la pseudo panacée ne valait que pour les soins à apporter aux éléments minéraux et métalliques de leur Pierre ou ne valaient que pour les fables rapportées sur les vertus attribuées de tout temps aux pierres précieuses] Et pour ce croyez en conscience, l'Or naturel est celui de nôtre Maîtrise par examinations en propres Ciments ; pour ce que l'autre ferait résoudre les Esprits du cœur de celui qui en userait et en mourrait.
Fils, je t'ay fait cette pratique en recette abrégée, sans y mettre aucune clausure, sinon des matériaux et de la projection, laquelle est difficile à savoir sans connaître Théorique, qui contient le propre nom des matériaux. En sorte qu'en ce présent écrit les t'ayons nommés, toutefois y a-t-il différence de matière : car plusieurs matières sont qui sont nommées par un nom pour la similitude qu'ils ont l'un en l'autre ; et pour ce si tu le veux savoir, si tu étudies les Livres de Raymond Lulle, c'est à savoir Théorique, Pratique, et Codicile, qui est nommé Vademecum de mercurio philosophorum ; car en iceux est la Science et Art complète, et en sorte que je te l'aie mise au vrai et en bref, et sans nulle adjonction de sublimations, ne distillations, ne calcinations rustiques, comme il est es autres Livres de cette Science ; toutefois déjà pour ce ne le pourra pratiquer, si par Théorique premier ne les a entendues : et sache qu'en ce que je t'ay dit dessus est contenu tout quoi que ils dirent jamais, ni ne mirent onc langage par-dessus, sinon pour la couvrir et cacher.
Et pour cela nommons l'Elément du sermon de l'Art, car elle ne peut être trop haut mise : car si elle n'était mise sous la couverture et ombre de Philosophie, autant en aurait le fol comme le sage, mais à toi je te dis que tu délaisses toutes sublimations, calcinations, solutions, qui sont et que trouveras es Livres de cet Art ; car il n'y a point d'utilité mais grande peine et grandes dépenses et dangers pour les fumées et perte de matériaux, et être moqué et ne rien trouver.
Et en ce pourrais avant user tous les temps de ta vie, que tu y pusses trouver aucun profit, mais entend à celle que je t'ay dite, laquelle n'est pas de haut monter, ainsi est d'une vile chose faire une moult noble, et par séparation physicale séparer le pur de l'impur, et non pas par force de feu, comme aucuns qui subliment l'Orpin, le Vif argent et le Sel armoniac, et les dissolvent et mêlent avec les chaux des métaux imparfaits, calcinent, subliment, distillent, dissolvent et congèlent, puis fondent et rien ne trouvent fors les métaux dessus dits, plus impurs que devant ; Ainsi demeurent moqués et désespérés de la Science, et disent que c'est chose impossible, et nous reprennent menteurs ; et ils dussent reprouver à leur ignorance ; et par ce, négligent et délaissent la Science comme gens désespérés et de peu de savoir. Et pour ce te dis de ne t'ennuyer si tu manque une fois ou plusieurs, en prenant garde à quoi il a tenu ; et jamais ne le sauras si tu n'es vrai Théoriquant et nous crois, si tu ne veux être fol et destitué du vrai chemin, lequel t'avons ouvert, si à ta faute ne tient.

LE SIXIEME CHAPITRE

De la Projection

Et quand tu auras accompli tes Médecines blanches ou rouges, tu prendras un poids d'icelles et le jetteras sur cent de Vif argent chauffé en un Creuset, et puis le laisse refroidir, car tu le trouveras en poudre. Secondement, tu projetteras un poids d'icelle poudre et la jetteras sur 100 autres de ?, et tout se convertira en médecine vraie ; mais elle ne sera pas de si grande vertu comme était la première, pour ce qu'elle a déjà accompli une partie de son effet. Troisièmement, tu prendras une partie d'icelle médecine, et en feras projection sur 100 autres de Vif argent comme devant, et tout sera converti en métal parfait blanc ou rouge, selon ce que la médecine aura été appareillée blanche ou rouge. Et si la matière sur laquelle tu as fait ta projection se trouve frangible, c'est signe qu'elle a encore vertu de convertir autre Vif argent en métal, et quand elle se montrera non frangible, c'est signe que sa vertu est finie, et ce n’est plus que métal accompli.

LE SEPTIEME CHAPITRE

Des Essais de fusion

Quand tes Projections seront accomplies, et tu voudras essayer si ton métal est parfait ou non, tu prendras un peu d'icelui, et le mettras en un creuset, et le laisseras recuire jusqu'à tant qu'il soit rougi, et lors commenceras à souffler de tes soufflets, en regardant sur la matière ; car si elle se fond toute ensemble sans faire de petites taches claires et sans fumer, c'est bon signe et démontrent que ce métal est altéré de ferme altération, et si elle fait le contraire, c'est signe que la matière n'est pas bien fixe ; et quand tout sera fondu, regarde si elle bout claire, sans faire boursoufler par-dessus et sans fumer, c'est signe de perfection quant au degré de fusion. Et si elle fait le contraire, c'est signe de mauvaise fixation et purgation, et que ta médecine n'a pas eu vertu de digérer la nature matérielle du métal imparfait, ou qu'elle avait déjà perdu sa force, par les premières projections devant faites, ou que tu avais mis trop petit de ta médecine sur ton métal ; et pour amender ta faute, secours-la par nouvelle médecine, Ainsi que je présuppose que tu sauras le faire, si nous a entendu en Théorique.

LE HUITIEME CHAPITRE

De l'Examen des Cendres

Après ce que tu auras vu que ta matière soustiendra l'examen de fusion et que tu voudras départir d'avec ton métal, si aucune immondicité y est demeurée, ou si tu veux départir aucun autre métal s'il est mêlé avec Or ou Argent, tu feras Ainsi. Tu prendras une bonne quantité de cendres de vignes, ou d'os de bêtes broyés et pulvérisés, et les cribleras, tant qu'auras la déliée poudre ; autrement prendras les cendres communes et les cribleras et tamisera, mais mieux vaut les cendres des os ou des vignes que les autres ; et quand elles seront bien tamisées tu les arroseras d'eau douce, tant que les cendres soient aucunement humides, et les mettras en quelque vaisseau de terre qui soit fait en manière d'un creuset ou d'unes écuelle cofine, et mettras les cendres dedans, tant qu'il en pourra en ton vaisseau, jusqu'à tant qu'il soit comble, et les fouleras et pileras avec un pilon tant qu'elles soient serrées et dures comme pierre ; puis feras au milieu un creux, qui ne soit guères profond, et la laisseras sécher au Soleil ou à lente chaleur ; et quand elle sera bien seiche, tu la mettras en fourneau et feras petit feu, tant qu'elle soit bien recuite et qu'elle rougisse.
Alors augmente bien ton feu, et met dedans du Plomb qui ne contienne point d'Etain, et le chauffe si fort qu'il tourne clair sans faire de boursouflure, et te garde d'y mettre rien pour affiner si ton plomb ne tourne clair ; car autrement tu gâterais ton examen et ne pourrais savoir de certain la quantité de ton Or ou Argent, et y aurais dommage, et tout pour l'Etain, quand il est avec le Plomb mêlé.
Et sache que chacune once de Plomb emporte un gros de Cuivre ou d'autre métal, comme fer ou acier. Et quand ton Plomb courra net sur la Cendre, boute dedans ce que tu voudras affiner, et alors le Plomb le boira et noircira par-dessus. Adonc augmente ton feu, et soufflant doucement tant que tout tourne, lors tu verras les Maillets courir par-dessus ta Cendre. Adonc continue ton feu doucement, tant que tu voie qu'il n'apparaisse plus rien par-dessus fors clarté blanche, et qu'il ne bouille plus, et qu'il soit clair comme le Soleil ; et si il laisse de se tourner et qu'il noircisse, c'est signe de peu de plomb ; lors mets du Plomb derechef dessus un bien peu tant qu'il tourne, et continue ton dit feu tant que le signe susdit y apparaisse, lors jette de l'eau dessus et laisse refroidir, et prends l'Argent ou l'Or que tu trouveras sur ta cendre, et le fonds en un creuset de terre et souffle dessus, et puis jette-le en lingotière chaud auquel il y ait de la graisse ou de la cire épandue.

LE NEUVIEME CHAPITRE

De l'Examen du Ciment

Maintenant dirons de l'Examen du Ciment, et disons que c'est le plus noble de tous les autres ; car il n'est nul métal qu'il ne corrompe, si ce n'est l'Or. Et pour ce quand tu voudras départir tous métaux d'avec l'Or tu les départiras par le Ciment, et se fait Ainsi. Tu prendras des coquilles anciennes qui sont trouvées en rivières ou au bords de la mer, ou es champs ; mais celles de la mer valent mieux, et les mettras en poudre bien déliée, et mêle avec tes poudres autant de sel commun comme tes poudres ou moins un peu, et les arrose de verjus de pommes, tant qu'elles deviendront humides en manière de dure pâte ; et puis aie l'Or que tu voudras cimenter en tenues pièces ou lamines étroites, et aies un grand creuset auquel tu mettras un lit de ces poudres dessus le fond, et par dessus mettras un lit de tes lamines ou pièces ; et par-dessus lesdites lamines mets un autre lit de tes poudres, et puis un lit, et faits lit sur lit, tant que ton creuset soit plein, ou que ton Or s'étendra, et étoupe fort la gueule dudit creuset avec un couvercle de terre et dudit argile confite avec sel, et mets ton creuset à la fournaise où il y ait feu continuel de flambe, et qu'il ne soit pas si fort que la matière fonde, et le laisse 24 heures audit feu bien continué, et lors le laisse refroidir et romps ton creuset, et tu trouveras ton Or séparé de toute ordure et de tout autre métal ; car nul métal n'est qui ne soit combustible, si ce n'est l'Or. Mais il est autres manières de départir l'Or d'avec l'Argent, si comme l'Eau forte et le Soufre, et l'Antimoine ; desquels ne parlerons point à présent, pour ce qu'il serait long, et qu'il suffit de ce que j'ay dit en ce présent abrégé pour la nécessité de l'Artiste, auquel Dieu en doit tellement user qu'il en rende grâces à Dieu ; lequel ay compilé et fait écrire, et fut parfait le vingt-neuvième jour de Décem-bre, l'an mil quatre cens quarante neuf.

FIN DU PREMIER TRAITÉ DE NICOLAS GROSPARMY

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http://yaka-asso.org/yaka/rosee/lr_sel.php

ROGER GUASCO Le Rose Brule le Sel

(NB In this chapter there are some figure in color but i dont know that i must do to put it ?This also applies to my photo of the salts obtained from various fusions on this way anyone can tell me how do I attach photos etc.?)

Le Sel Alchimique

Evoquons à présent le Sel.

- SAL - le nitre des anciens, l´eau forte, le dissolvant universel, la rosée céleste, la neige éternelle des sages, l´arbre creux, la fée des grottes, que sais-je encore ?...

Les définitions du sel philosophique ne manquent pas. C´est le liant qui unit le soufre, materia prima, au mercure philosophique et c´est pourquoi nous donnons sa composition après le soufre et avant le mercure.

- C´est l´œuvre à l´échelle de l´homme, sans lui, rien et il n´est rien.
L´origine du sel est modeste, mais de même source que les autres matériaux, c´est-à-dire minérale : on peut l´obtenir de deux façons, soit avec le sel marin (sodium), soit avec du sel de pierre (potassium).

Ce nitre est un dissolvant très puissant quand il est travaillé avec précaution et intelligence.

Les livres d´Alchimie disent qu´on le trouve partout, dans la terre, dans l´air, dans l´eau, dans l´urine, dans les plantes... C´est la nourriture des Rois, de nos deux Rois.
On va parler de la fabrication du sel, à partir du sel marin , mais, elle est la même à partir du nitre. Natron des sages, sel de pierre.

Un carré magique peu connu et pourtant bien parlant en donne la clé.
Dürer représente le carré magique de 16 dans l´eau forte intitulée, "Mélancholia". Cette gravure est le symbole du sel alchimique comme celle de Rembrandt, le soufre.

En réalité, ce n´est pas la Mélancolie mais l´attente car le temps de la préparation est long et fastidieux.
Le carré magique, lu horizontalement, donne:



R

O

S

La Rosée



U

R

I

Brûle



S

A

L

Le Sel



Le carré magique, lu verticalement, donne:



R

U

S

La campagne



O

R

A

Prie



S

I

L

La terre rouge

Nous retrouvons encore le mot SIL, Adam, la Terre Rouge, c´est-à-dire l´argile.

RUS, la campagne détrempée de rosée, la seule opérante.

ORA, invocation à la prière, qui permet à l´opération de se réaliser.., de se parfaire, car la piété, la foi permettent de réaliser cette communion entre nos principes et la matière.

"La rosée des prés brûle le sel, prie la matière."

Bien que ce carré magique donne la façon de faire le sel, on va parler de ce sel plus longuement et de sa préparation.

Il faut tout d´abord récolter la rosée du printemps : 20 à 30 litres et la mettre à l´abri dans des urnes de terre cuite, rangées dans des caves de préférence pour assurer une meilleure conservation.
On utilisera du sel marin pur. Le faire fondre dans un creuset pour faire disparaître toute matière étrangère et volatile. Une fois fondu, le verser dans un vase de terre cuite pour que le refroidissement se fasse insensiblement. Couvrir le récipient pour éviter des déperditions. Ensuite, dissoudre avec de la rosée jusqu´à ce que l´on ne voie plus de traces de sel.
On filtre la préparation que l´on laisse évaporer jusqu´à apparition de cristaux et on recommence l´opération jusqu´à ce que ce sel soit fusible à 40°.





Cela demande trois mois de constante dissolution et d´évaporation dans un local très propre afin que les impuretés ne viennent pas souiller la préparation.
Conserver ce sel dans un récipient de cristal, car il dissout la silice. Il sera de couleur blanche argentée avec de petits cristaux réfringents, c´est la terre feuillée des sages.
Vous avez alors obtenu le Sel Philosophique.

Vous pourrez, comme le soufre, le travailler seul : il est bon à bien des choses, tant dans le domaine minéral que végétal.
On peut l´utiliser en médecine pour la préparation de plantes médicinales.
Ce sel a été au cours des siècles, un objet de convoitise de tous les alchimistes et certains ont travaillé une vie durant, sans le trouver : c´est à la fois simple, mais si long.
Un contemporain, sans le savoir, a obtenu du sel alchimique par son travail assidu en utilisant de la terre feuillée; dite terre de bruyère, résidu de la pourriture des plantes et il a arrosé sa terre avec de la rosée - évaporation - arrosage - malaxage sans trève pendant mille jours : son résultat n´était pas négatif, car c´était du sel alchimique, qu´il avait en fin de compte produit et, en ajoutant de la poudre d´or à sa composition, il arrivait à une liqueur de sels d´or (car le sel alchimique attaque l´or) mais les cendres de ses plantes peuvent être, selon l´endroit de leur récolte, toxiques ou bénéfiques - d´où incertitude des résultats, surtout en ce qui concerne leur utilisation curative : l´or potable ne se fabrique pas ainsi.

La pourriture de plantes sélectionnées, ou les cendres de plantes choisies peuvent être travailtées utilement comme le sel marin et le résultat obtenu sera un dissolvant pour travailler d´autres plantes.

Le sel obtenu n´est pas à dédaigner et la façon de travailler pour l´obtenir est essentielle et doit être retenue : c´est une règle alchimique.
- ROS - URI - SAL -
" Béni soit celui qui sait et comprend pourquoi il travaille le sel. "

Ce liant, (sans lui le soufre philosophique ne serait pas utilisable pour le Grand Œuvre) servira de bain au Roi et à la Reine.

Les propriétés de ce sel sont immenses.

Nous sommes en possession du Soufre et du Sel Philosophique.
Il manque à présent le troisième élément : le Mercure.

solomon levi
03-02-2012, 06:52 PM
Hi Alfr.
Why do you call realgar a double salt?

alfr
03-02-2012, 08:39 PM
hi solomon

NO! realgar is one componet of roger guasco and sal made with ( sal of sea and sal of dew) is other
SO i tell ( in my last post) that in istruction of roger guasco as have tell roger guasco there are 3 result one is salt ph and is based on elaboration of he sea salt and the dew , instead the zolfo ph is based by elaboration of realgar and one is mercury ph based on elaboration of sublimatic di mercury and antimony etc and this is methodologi of roger guasco.
But (as i have just say) there are a group very closed in french and italy rc etc that they dont think about this of to salt sea sal and dew salt uset by roger guaso sa only one component of the stone but they think that with 2 salt only made philosopher stone and elixir in work with this 2 salt in way dry in crucible as (they say ) have write about this grosparmy in him book Tresor de Tresor ( part that i have attach in my last post) and the way of grosparmy is very similar at the method of made the only component of salt of roger guasco che also him work (i have attach the all the part of this instruction in my last post) with this 2 salt sea and salt and dew salt.as i have say i have work for may time with this 2 salt in dry way but is IMHO after many experience with this is that higt temperature is not good for this matter natural-universal (so as i have just say in my last post ) SO understood this ( by the my experince) now i prefer work with this very special 2 salts with a soft sideral-natural-universal way the way also descript inside the write anonimes intitled the True and Ancien Way Natural of Hermete Trismegisto .

(so sorry if i am not write clear it now i go to correct my post better and put more clear this sorry )

my best regard alfr

solomon levi
03-02-2012, 09:01 PM
Thanks Alfr. That makes more sense. :)

rogerc
03-02-2012, 09:29 PM
Solomon look at this post:http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?822-Synthesis-Path It was big coincedence the other day I came upon this thread when I wrote my big post on arsenic in The Celestial Agriculture thread.....but it seems Green Lion has got it along time ago, (arsenical sulfur) it seems that perhaps this work or the eloboration of it has brought him understanding of using no mattters as in the most powerful path in alchemy and instead directly fixing the metallic spirits as Fulcanelli suggests in Dwellings. But yes as alfr says there are three works...... the first is that of the regimien of sulfur, we destroy realgar with potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide, we add the nitrate salts of iron and copper.....Starkey's would be net, and warm in balneo maria, then follow the protocol on distillation, we reach philosophical sulfur in the wet way, as he says it is practically a finished stone hardly weaker than the classic philosophic stone, it only lacks philosophic mercury to make the multiplication, in this path no gold is used, realgar is philosophers gold, unlike gold it contains the active spirits seminal from the mine, remember as Eleazar says that I put in my post on arsenic....that with arsenical sulfur is our dry water unduley mixed. Roger's protocol to make what he calls secret fire is the name he gave philosophic salt, it is sea salt(sodium) or rock salt (potassium) made fusible through dew, the magic square that gives the phrase,....the dew burns the salt, its the basis for this particular operation and also the title of the book. Finally philosophic mercury in Guasco's operativity is made by disassociating the metallic spirits, feminine lunar mercury from the white metals, lead, tin, silver, zinc, antimony by sublimating with mercuric dichloride, corrosive sublimate. As Guasco states philosophic salt/secret fire isn't used alone in alchemy, but can be used on plants and as a medicine, in alchemy as I posted above it is salt who makes the marriage between red man and white wife.

solomon levi
03-02-2012, 10:26 PM
Wow. Too complicated for me. I mean I can understand it,
but that's a lot of work. Later in the thread GL says to remember
the work is simple (in another path). I agree. Honestly I would not
do that much work for the stone - the mercury and arsenic and ....
that seems really foreign to me, I mean not Nature-al.

I'm more inclined to a prepared substance that is also water and cooks our golden sulfur simply.
I like dry paths too, but not too complicated.

But thank you. :)

rogerc
03-02-2012, 11:54 PM
Wow. Too complicated for me. I mean I can understand it,
but that's a lot of work. Later in the thread GL says to remember
the work is simple (in another path). I agree. Honestly I would not
do that much work for the stone - the mercury and arsenic and ....
that seems really foreign to me, I mean not Nature-al.

I'm more inclined to a prepared substance that is also water and cooks our golden sulfur simply.
I like dry paths too, but not too complicated.

But thank you. :)

Yes, but here in your answer you can see and many others of like mind and I am not picking on just one person here but this note goes out to the entire community of inspiring alchemists...it is why of so many would be alchemists who have started the Great Work that Fulcanelli lays out and other paths as well , most have not finished the work, even Fulcanelli's own disciples did not stick to the good road, forsaking it to spend a lifetime searching for an easier path, like so many on this forum, so do not confuse simple with easy.....yes, the great work is supposed to be simple, exceedingly so, we follow nature, we awaken life and generate movement and transitory states with the help of saline spirits, it is how metals are made in the mines, it is how life emerged from the oceans of the world, of course arsenic and mercury are involved, read all the great discourses on metallic generation, they are the corpreal matters(in their natural state) where spirit still lies hid, here read the philosophic component of the corperal matter, they are living spiritual energies, the very planetary signatures given to the occult metals by the old masters, cogniscent of their reality, ever working deep within the earth, it is the symbol for the dry arid oak that Fulcanelli tried to convey, he even says it explicitly, when he writes that is is the state human industry gives to living metals taken far from their natural state once they are roasted and reduced to a metallic state, but the tree can be made fertile again, about more I will post in the appropriate thread....But nobody said the work was easy or fast, human nature is what protects the stone ultimately, especially in this age of our instant gratification society, unassured of future success who will start this work and finish it, the answer is very few, maybe none, it is also very exceedingly dangerous, we could poison ourselves or suffer horrible burns as some of us already have from fiery projections of the furnance, and then some reportedly only arrive at the work of the sulfur and salt never reaching the remora which is most ellusive with this path, the water that wets not the hands still being the most difficult subject to come by in any path but surely the most necessary to come to a stone of any degree of potency. In short like the old masters say many are called to this art however only few have earned the right to be called alchemist, Guasco is one of them.

So then I only ask whats the problem?, people seem to want to follow the Essene, Sol you think he is brillant, he would have you want to destroy dead gold with a another dead metal (reduced sodium or potassium metal), instead of creating a living salt even based on sodium or potassium where are fixed real astral living spirits and use it work on living philosophic gold(realgar) where lies the blood of the redeemer, the true graal, I hope you can see where the real work is lie hid, it is my path, my crux, I will assume it, I will finish the work.

Anyways I'm off my soapbox now, off to make "soap" to whiten my laton.

Pleroma
03-03-2012, 04:52 PM
Anyways I'm off my soapbox now, off to make "soap" to whiten my laton.



But let’s back to our putrefaction and get help from Arnaldus de Villa Nova and his Semita Semitae: “Azoth and fire clean Laton, that is to say wash it and remove it completely her blackness. For Laton is an impure body, ” Villanoviensis informs us that Azoth is accompanied by fire, not by Mercurius. Well, they are synonymous, indeed. But what we want to understand is simple: “ Have we to add something, like a soap to wash this Laton, or not?” For Laton seems a woman that has decided to take a shower.

Laton is woman and soap too. Look up in a dictionary for the term “Shower”: an enclosure in which a person stands under a spray of water to wash. Laton is that too. As for washing operation is cleaning with water and, typically, soap or detergent. Not till soap discovery, yet. In eighteenth century Pernety should have seen groups of women washing clothes at rivers or ditches sides. They did not use soap, they simply soak, lift and flap clothes. Just what Solve et Coagula imperceptibly does in Main Work. And what Putrefaction is. Secret Fire by itself.
http://www.labyrinthdesigners.org/hermetic-authors-1598-1832/dom-pernety-laton-putrefaction/

umm...ok.

alfr
03-06-2012, 08:02 AM
hi solomon

NO! realgar is one componet of roger guasco and sal made with ( sal of sea and sal of dew) is other
SO i tell ( in my last post) that in istruction of roger guasco as have tell roger guasco there are 3 result one is salt ph and is based on elaboration of he sea salt and the dew , instead the zolfo ph is based by elaboration of realgar and one is mercury ph based on elaboration of sublimatic di mercury and antimony etc and this is methodologi of roger guasco.
But (as i have just say) there are a group very closed in french and italy rc etc that they dont think about this of to salt sea sal and dew salt uset by roger guaso sa only one component of the stone but they think that with 2 salt only made philosopher stone and elixir in work with this 2 salt in way dry in crucible as (they say ) have write about this grosparmy in him book Tresor de Tresor ( part that i have attach in my last post) and the way of grosparmy is very similar at the method of made the only component of salt of roger guasco che also him work (i have attach the all the part of this instruction in my last post) with this 2 salt sea and salt and dew salt.as i have say i have work for may time with this 2 salt in dry way but is IMHO after many experience with this is that higt temperature is not good for this matter natural-universal (so as i have just say in my last post ) SO understood this ( by the my experince) now i prefer work with this very special 2 salts with a soft temperature sideral-natural-universal way the way also descript inside the write anonimes intitled the True and Ancien Way Natural of Hermete Trismegisto .

(so sorry if i am not write clear it now i go to correct my post better and put more clear this sorry )

my best regard alfr

Hi every body

Way natural-universal-moon -sun-sideral with salt and with VERY soft temperature (NO dangererus and difficult, as SURE are the dry way with higt temperature,only always NO more 50 grade )with a true real alchemical natural- simple irradiations and attractions-corporifications influeace of moon-sideral-sun: the real true secret Alchemical solve and coagula

About this way soft ( that i prefer ) with these special magnets-salts for ATTRACT "dew" and the sideral influence ( way that maybe? maybe? is describes also by "fulcanelli-group" in some parts of him "alchemical encyclopaedic books") that I have indicated in these posts above i wanted to add about this way some referece of books speak and that give some very inportant indication ( the text operative and very clear IMO is Révélation de la Parole Cachée par les Anciens ) of this metodology but (sorry) all text i know is in french:
and are :

Révélation de la Parole Cachée par les Anciens
ou Généalogie de la Mère du Mercure des Philosophes anonimes can found it at the link:

chrysopee.zzl.org/_ouvrages/218.doc

this book Révélation de la Parole Cachée par les Ancien swas public by biembel ( famous alchymist that was worked on "ways of fulcanelli") with the edition arma artis paris ( this is one document very much important and real true operative)

L’Escalier des Sages of de Barent Coenders Van Helpen can found it at the link:

chrysopee.zzl.org/http://chrysopee.zzl.org/maj_ouvrages.php.

De l'or potable des anciens. anonimus can found it at the link :chrysopee.zzl.org/_ouvrages/240.doc

La pierre aqueuse de sagesse ou l’aquariun des sages can found it at the link :www.beyaeditions.com/aquarium%20des%20s..

Concordance Mytho-Physico-Cabalo-Hermétique Fabre du Bosquet can found it at the link :

www.beyaeditions.com/concordance%20myth...

Hortulus sacer anonimus can found it at the link : chrysopee.zzl.org/_ouvrages/243.doc

Le Mystère de la croix, affligeante et consolante ... de Jésus-Christ et de ses membres: Douzetemps

http://books.google.it/books?id=vg89AAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=it#v=onepage&q&f=false

Clovis Hesteau de Nuysement, Les vision hermetiques et autres poèmes alchimiques suivis des Traictez du vrai sel secret des Philosophes et de l'Esprit General du monde. Texte annoté et presenté par Silvain Matton, Paris 1974.

Clovis Hesteau de Nuysement, Poeme Philosophique de la verite de la Phisique Mineralle,

le secret du sel d'Elias Artista

and ovvius Cosmopolite

I hope this are good for more deep understood this way and this metodology

(sorry all for my bad english)


my best regards alfr

solomon levi
03-06-2012, 09:32 AM
In response to Rogerc, that is not the only path is all I'm saying.
And it certainly isn't the one vessel, one matter, one fire path which is far simpler.
And it isn't the only path Fulcanelli describes.
And it also isn't the first path that you've said is the one, and it probably won't be the last.
And it isn't the rock that Moses struck...
Fulcanelli wouldn't define that work as alchemy.

It's just a fact that an easier path exists. Why would I do a more difficult one that may not even work?
There have been several paths well described and still didn't work for those who tried to duplicate them.
Of course this one is different. They always are. :)

There's no reason to define me as anything. That won't prove or disprove the stone.
Because i don't want to overcomplicate something doesn't make me lazy.
If I saw the truth in it, I'd try it. But right now I don't.
If an alchemist cannot see the entire path to it's completion in his/her mind, best not
to start, don't you think.

Essene - unquestionably brilliant.
I'm aware of three ways this guy could make gold. That alone makes him brilliant.
And that just scratches the surface of his brilliance. :)

Realgar isn't the only green gold. Every mineral is on its way to becoming gold.

I'll focus on you succeeding my friend. :)

rogerc
03-06-2012, 10:55 AM
If we take soley the path of philosophic sulfur arrived at with realgar, we achieve an unmultiplied stone in a very simple way in 3 months, the quickest way possible in the wet way, of course there are other paths but I don't know of a way to get philosophic mercury shorter than 9 months and yet still other nine months mark the evolution of gold once we have the mercury and put it in the sol. With a good celestial salt we can arrive at a stone with realgar and antimony in a matter of hours in three operations given the operativity of Fulcanelli in the dry way, ......of course he discusses multiple paths dry and wet, while he also mixes the three regimiens, salt,merucry, sulfur...... that much is apparent, but its not hard if we read his books and memorize them and put them in correct context to know what he is talking about when he jumps around.
Especially if we follow all the breadcrumbs he lays out, I mean really follow all the leads on all the books he mentions when he gives hints, he makes it easy for a guy willing to put in the time to do all the research, of course a surface reading of his books teaches nothing and brings no great understanding in the art, but thats what he intended, like all the great master his books are only decipherable by the initiated even if we are self intiated our knowledge brings us the grade.

Thanks for focusing on my succeeding.....About the Essene .....I' am as unconvinced as you are about this path...dead metals on dead metals have no effect on each other just like Fulcanelli and all the masters say, hermetic and metallic spirits be the only active and penatrating instigators and agents of change .

Andro
03-06-2012, 11:38 AM
...they think that with 2 salt only made philosopher stone and elixir in work with this 2 salt in way dry in crucible as (they say ) have write about this grosparmy in him book Tresor de Tresor ( part that i have attach in my last post) and the way of grosparmy is very similar at the method of made the only component of salt of roger guasco che also him work (i have attach the all the part of this instruction in my last post) with this 2 salt sea and salt and dew salt.as i have say i have work for may time with this 2 salt in dry way but is IMHO after many experience with this is that higt temperature is not good for this matter natural-universal...

From what I've been informed, this is a practice that often leads to exploding crucibles and lost fingers/limbs.

So please beware if you think you have figured out a quick and 'easy' dry/fast way (with the mentioned salts and high temperatures)...

solomon levi
03-06-2012, 11:51 AM
Thanks for focusing on my succeeding.....About the Essene .....I' am as unconvinced as you are about this path...dead metals on dead metals have no effect on each other just like Fulcanelli and all the masters say, hermetic and metallic spirits be the only active and penatrating instigators and agents of change .

Where did I say I was unconvinced?
And who ever described a path for the philosophers' stone by the Essene? What path?
Oh - you probably mean the red lion. Yeah, I doubt that's a true red stone.
But the Essene knew more than just m-state alchemy. He could make living gold
from Dead sea mud that grew/matured for nine months. He found the method in
"The Jewish Alchemists".

Metallic sodium obviously absorbs moisture from the air hungrily. It's not so dead as you say.
Alkalis can be revived that way as you know.

Andro
03-06-2012, 12:11 PM
Some are complaining of weather in France, some traveled to Mexico to be successful.

This may well be occasionally true, IF we rely exclusively on the Macro conditions to collect 'Our Dew'...


Some people are meaning that even the dew in famous Paracelsus Ens Melissa is not "common" dew.
Should be a heavenly dew, which is something completely different than "normal" dew?

I am strongly inclined to think so. You'll see it if you check out the more complex 'recipe' for the Ens Melissa, the one also involving see salt.

In any case - I did the common/known Melissa practice more than two years ago (with self-made potash absorbing common humidity from the night air), and although I got an interesting Oil - the results were not in the least spectacular.

The Ens Melissa practice with 'heavenly' dew is on my project list...

rogerc
03-06-2012, 12:36 PM
Where did I say I was unconvinced?
And who ever described a path for the philosophers' stone by the Essene? What path?
Oh - you probably mean the red lion. Yeah, I doubt that's a true red stone.
But the Essene knew more than just m-state alchemy. He could make living gold
from Dead sea mud that grew/matured for nine months. He found the method in
"The Jewish Alchemists".

Metallic sodium obviously absorbs moisture from the air hungrily. It's not so dead as you say.
Alkalis can be revived that way as you know.

ok sorry...... you sounded unconvinced( about realagar)

yes we can make salts from sodium and potassium and vivify them that what the Guasco path on philosophic salt entails, but the sodium(metal) burn on gold(metal) yields nothing alchemical thats all I'm saying.

rogerc
03-06-2012, 12:39 PM
From what I've been informed, this is a practice that often leads to exploding crucibles and lost fingers/limbs.

So please beware if you think you have figured out a quick and 'easy' dry/fast way (with the mentioned salts and high temperatures)...
Thats why you must have knowledge of the moderator that Fulcanelli describes when he talks about the priest of avignon. He's not the only one to have described it.

solomon levi
03-06-2012, 02:37 PM
ok sorry...... you sounded unconvinced( about realagar)

yes we can make salts from sodium and potassium and vivify them that what the Guasco path on philosophic salt entails, but the sodium(metal) burn on gold(metal) yields nothing alchemical thats all I'm saying.

No. You said, about Essene, I am as unconvinced as you are...
And the realgar path is not alchemical either - it looks spagyric to me. "Extract sulfur from this, mercury from that..."
This isn't the alchemy Fulcanelli spoke of. Nor is this the lamb, fleece, oak.
But I'm not saying I'm unconvinced of a realgar path either. But it is not a stone without mercury. That should be obvious for any kingdom.
Is there a black/putrefaction stage? That also defines alchemy.

pneumatician
09-07-2012, 04:07 PM
Everybody can see the revival of alchemical working with dew started by ***.
It would be nice. But it is not easy /at least for me/ to align it with the ALL "common" statements of "all" classic authors/adepts.
Some are directly opposite - e.g. Aristeus. Could be adepts psyops...
Some are complaining of weather in France, some travelled to Mexico to be successful.
Some people are meaning that even the dew in famous Paracelsus Ens Melissae is not "common" dew.
Should be a heavenly dew, which is something ?completely different than "normal" dew?
As I myself wish to know, I started this topic, so be it not flamewar, but "philowar".
Let in the fire of the posts the errors burn and remains the Truth.

Dew + SS ALL the people fail because do not know... :)

*** (HDM=happy dead man) despises everything not known like the S. V. P. (their idolatrous never questioned his "guru")

I guy declares discoverer of the island of St. Uber: (sic) but this guy also are wrong :) (yes other people before you think about the site)

Paracels speek very clear or only with conceps (mental ideas or seeds, and You need to mentally make them grow )

and, well...

Andro
09-07-2012, 04:29 PM
Dew + SS ALL the people fail because do not know... :)

And do you know? What are you trying to say, really?

You say this and that is wrong. OK. I understand.

What is your alternative? What is 'right'?

Just asking because of your above statements...

Krisztian
09-07-2012, 09:44 PM
Paracels speek very clear or only with conceps (mental ideas or seeds, and You need to mentally make them grow ).

I also get quite the 'kick' out of the style of writing you have, pneumatician.

I'm not sure whether you mean [the quote above] that this is true or not, but it's been my realization, keep coming back to this point, that the Universal Medicine, the Lapis, needs to be grown, guided, by the inner transformation, the mental imagery of the alchemist. That's what I keep learning in manuscripts from 16th Century. And I specialize in that period.

There're very specific mental sequential imagery that's involved here. So from this perspective, the dew itself is somewhat empty without the mental impregnation by the alchemist. The process is not as physical as some would like to believe, that's why it doesn't work for everyone.

pneumatician
09-15-2012, 12:48 AM
And do you know? What are you trying to say, really?

You say this and that is wrong. OK. I understand.

What is your alternative? What is 'right'?

Just asking because of your above statements...

well done :)

yes theoretically I known the solve keys. (exist a more easy process and that is why I am not interested in)
exist alchemy life beyond RAMS library... and talking of rams library... a guy say RAMS docs are not all complete, missing data or parts of manuscripts... I send two emails to rams asking this and no reply... if anyone have the rams cd's get the Bactroms manus. in archive.org and compare please
http://www.illuminated-alchemists.com/t353p15-what-you-are-working-on-and-the-issues
are the LA guys searching chimeras :confused:

"right" is something nobody is doing, basically because nobody get the elixir.

My alternative cost you 500 milion euros free of taxes :) (clearly I are tempted to ask for 1 billion but...)

but... taste to whet your appetite...
Island named in the letter... some time ago I search a bit and ended with the temp conclusion: the island is the now named "Isla do Sal" in Cape Verde", BUT THIS IS INDIFERENT :)

Andro
09-15-2012, 01:06 AM
If your knowledge of 'the solve keys' is only theoretical, it's irrelevant. First test it in the fire of practice.

The problems with the RAMS collection are well known to me. Problems of translation/interpretation and many others. Also you are right, they are not very good at replying to emails...

The path with Salts from 'Sea' and 'Dew' is a potentially valid one, but some keys are missing. There are both wet and dry variations.

What's right is what works. Saying that nobody got the Elixir would imply that you know EVERYBODY and that they were ALL honest with you about not having it. Is this the case?

Mod Edit: Off-topic comments & arguments removed, to keep the subject matter constructive and coherent.

pneumatician
09-15-2012, 01:10 AM
I also get quite the 'kick' out of the style of writing you have, pneumatician..

:D


I'm not sure whether you mean [the quote above] that this is true or not, but it's been my realization, keep coming back to this point, that the Universal Medicine, the Lapis, needs to be grown, guided, by the inner transformation, the mental imagery of the alchemist. That's what I keep learning in manuscripts from 16th Century. And I specialize in that period..

yes like any other creative proces (painting a picture ddesign a car, building... but alchemy is the most high spiritual science... we can create something greater in this reality that the PS? well, perhaps an UFO, but I think anyway we also need the PS ... :D


There're very specific mental sequential imagery that's involved here. So from this perspective, the dew itself is somewhat empty without the mental impregnation by the alchemist. The process is not as physical as some would like to believe, that's why it doesn't work for everyone.

don't lost reality, the PS is a phisical thing, the rest are mystical fog, religious mumbo-jumbo...

pneumatician
09-15-2012, 02:25 AM
If your knowledge of 'the solve keys' is only theoretical, it's irrelevant. First test it in the fire of practice.


What's right is what works. Saying that nobody got the Elixir would imply that you know EVERYBODY and that they were ALL honest with you about not having it. Is this the case?

you are right, but if anyone make the test and get the elixir, do you really think that someone will come in here to say that?

Mod Edit: Off-topic comments & arguments removed, to keep the thread & subject matter constructive and coherent.

Andro
09-15-2012, 04:29 AM
To return to the original topic: You apparently claim you know something about this process that others are missing, so would it be possible for you to elaborate more on the topic you brought up?

If you have something of value to contribute and enhance the understanding of where this process is 'wrong' or 'lacking', you are more than welcome to do so.

Thank you.