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zoas23
10-23-2019, 08:19 PM
Hi,
I was reading this manuscript and most of the text is very easy to read (it is written with a very clear handwriting).

I have the belief that it is probably a collaborative work between two persons (which would be quite weird, because it's a notebook from 1725.. I guess it's not easy to find collaborative notebooks).

It's written in latin, but some pages seem to have a different language and certainly a different kind of letters, I think it is probably German, but I am not sure because I can't read the text, just a few letters, but not even complete isolated words.

Is someone able to identify the language of the text BELOW the lion (i.e, the bottom of the page)? Of course, the text above is Latin and easy to read.

https://dlcs.io/iiif-img/wellcome/1/70bb93cf-d976-4f4e-aa0b-6493fed51f74/full/1000,1475/0/default.jpg

Source: https://wellcomelibrary.org/item/b19559653#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=14&z=-0.1429%2C0.1297%2C1.4986%2C0.9605

EDIT: It is indeed German...
From the Wellcome web: THESAURUS thesaurorum et secretum secretissimum in quo omnia Mundi arcana latent, quodque Deus per ineffabilem suam misericordiam homini vili et abjecto peccatorique maximo revelavit. Lapidis Philosophorum verus processus. Illustrated with numerous symbolic alchemical water-colour drawings, and figures of chemical and alchemical apparatus: a circular symbolic figure on p. 83 is by a different and later hand. The text and the legends to the illustrations are in Latin, but there are a few additions in verse in German. The title given above is that found on p. 7 at the beginning of the text. There is a title in an unresolved cypher on p. 1 of which the following only is en clair: 'S.N.D.B.L.E./..../Philoponus P...A...B...' Below the title to the second work (p. 93) is written 'Mei Magistri colendissimi piae memoriae'.

Michael Sternbach
10-24-2019, 12:37 AM
Hi Zoas,

It's German.

The part on top says:

"Des Lwen Blut die Blum erquickt."

"The lion's blood quickens the flowers."

I am struggling with the rest, though.

Florius Frammel
10-24-2019, 04:41 AM
I have no problems with the text. You have mail.

the second part reads:

"denn ohne diesen sie erstickt."

"Because without it (the lion's blood), it (the flower) suffocates."

zoas23
10-24-2019, 03:30 PM
Michael and Florius!
Thanks a lot to the two of you.
I don't know how you did it, but it's great!
Now I dare to translate the whole book (I didn't want to if some parts are unreadable).

Michael Sternbach
10-24-2019, 05:47 PM
I have no problems with the text. You have mail.

the second part reads:

"denn ohne diesen sie erstickt."

"Because without it (the lion's blood), it (the flower) suffocates."

I agree to your transcription. Also, your deciphering of the second part leaves no doubt that the whole text actually refers to a singular flower.

At some stage, I came pretty close to your transcription myself, but more than anything, the different shape of the letter 's' in the upper part as compared to the lower part threw me off track.

Michael Sternbach
10-24-2019, 05:52 PM
:)
Michael and Florius!
Thanks a lot to the two of you.
I don't know how you did it, but it's great!
Now I dare to translate the whole book (I didn't want to if some parts are unreadable).

You are welcome. All the best for your translation! :)

zoas23
11-06-2019, 03:44 AM
I certainly need some help. I got lost with a two expressions:

https://i.postimg.cc/s2FpXNJN/Captura-de-pantalla-2019-11-05-a-las-11-47-28-p-m.png

I read: Sal. Adum. Sulphur Adum.

Since the expressions don't make sense to me and some letters are clarified by the context, it may be:
"Sal. Idum. Sulphur Idum."
(but I think that it's "adum")

Or maybe they are only one word? i.e, "Salidum" and "Sulphuridum" or "Saladum" and "Sulphuradum".

The book "Conspectus mixtionum chemicarum quad ad rationes perpetuas"
The context does not help much, but I'll give it... the contents of the page are as follows:

The author has created a red Vitriol, so he heats it in a sand bath and mixes it with a white oil he has created in the previous steps and evaporates it until a third part remains.


Sal. Adum. Sulphur Adum.

He places the flask in a cold place and avery think white Vitriol shows up, though it "hides" the red tincture inside of it.

then he separates the pure from the impure and the pure part in an amalgam with a regulus of Venus can transmute Mars into Venus.

And that's all the context... No obvious word that begins with "adum" is mentioned in the book again. The dictionary of Rulandus gives the following definition:

ADUMA --- The Stone of the Philosophers arrived at the Red before it has become Elixir.

So maybe he is trying to give "aduma" a neutral declension and it became "adum"?

Is anyone able to think of a different meaning? this book was written in 1782 (maybe such thing helps).

The book "Conspectus mixtionum chemicarum quad ad rationes perpetuas..." by Jean Baptiste Van Mons explains how to read some old chemical expressions and he states that:
sulphuridum means "hyposulphite"
sulphuridulum means "subhyposulphite"
phosphoridum means "hypophosphite"

Though I would find it a bit strange if the author of this book I am translating was using such expressions... He talks everywhere else about Sulphur, Salt and Mercury and that's it.

Anyone can help?

Warmheart
11-06-2019, 06:24 PM
Anyone can help?
It is written: Sal 2dum, Sulphur 2dum

that means

Sal Secundum, Sulphur Secundum

on English that is

Secnod Salt, Second Sulphur

zoas23
11-06-2019, 06:44 PM
It is written: Sal 2dum, Sulphur 2dum

that means

Sal Secundum, Sulphur Secundum

on English that is

Secnod Salt, Second Sulphur

Thanks a lot!!!!
The book will certainly have a "thank you" section because several people have helped with big things or little things.
I would like to include you, I'll write.
It's funny how sometimes the solution to these complicated things is so easy... 2nd!

I have lost hours and hours with another one... https://i.postimg.cc/CKvHYTN3/Captura-de-pantalla-2019-11-06-a-las-3-24-49-p-m.png
The text does not really use many symbols, so I was reading "frigidam tam" ("cold tam")... but "tam" isn't a noun (it means "as" in the context of sentences like "as big as the moon", but it didn't make any sense there).
So I switched my mind to alternatives: "Pam", "Vam", "Dam", "Uam", but nothing was making sense.
Finally I saw the inverted triangle and understood that it was simply AQUAM... water... cold water!

Thanks a lot, Warmheart... !!! i was not expecting a "2"

zoas23
11-10-2019, 06:59 PM
Hi... I am having troubles with a symbol. It must be in one of those many "charts of alchemical symbols", but the ones I have certainly don't have it.

https://i.postimg.cc/zXvtyv2w/Captura-de-pantalla-2019-11-10-a-las-3-09-11-p-m.png

Some context:

"apparebit color viridis, quid vocatur secundum hermetem, beata viriditas, Dunech viride, Vas Hermetis Viride, Fixum et Volatile in uno corpore, https://i.postimg.cc/zXvtyv2w/Captura-de-pantalla-2019-11-10-a-las-3-09-11-p-m.png "

"(they have arrived to some salts which) will show themselves in a green colour and they are often called Second Hermes, Holy Greenes, Green Dunech, Green Hermetic Vessel, Fixed and Volatile in one body, [the symbol]..."

Uncle Scrooge
11-13-2019, 08:50 AM
Some context:

"apparebit color viridis, quid vocatur secundum hermetem, beata viriditas, Dunech viride, Vas Hermetis Viride, Fixum et Volatile in uno corpore, https://i.postimg.cc/zXvtyv2w/Captura-de-pantalla-2019-11-10-a-las-3-09-11-p-m.png "

"(they have arrived to some salts which) will show themselves in a green colour and they are often called Second Hermes, Holy Greenes, Green Dunech, Green Hermetic Vessel, Fixed and Volatile in one body, [the symbol]..."

The Green Dunech is the Green Lion which is The Prima Materia, it is volatile, it's a gas at room temperature but you can liquify it with a liquid nitrogen and methanol cold bath. It can also be fixed into a green solid (green crystals) or a green liquid by various means. Once the Prima Materia is fixed into a solid or liquid at room temperature it is called the Green Lion.

zoas23
11-13-2019, 08:09 PM
The Green Dunech is the Green Lion which is The Prima Materia, it is volatile, it's a gas at room temperature but you can liquify it with a liquid nitrogen and methanol cold bath. It can also be fixed into a green solid (green crystals) or a green liquid by various means. Once the Prima Materia is fixed into a solid or liquid at room temperature it is called the Green Lion.

You are right.. it's a "nebula" (a cloud) in this book and it has to be fixed into these green salts.
It seems we have found your twin brother, that's quite surprising.

Uncle Scrooge
11-14-2019, 03:13 AM
That's interesting, it's almost as if I wrote it myself.

Andro
11-22-2019, 12:01 PM
it's a gas at room temperature but you can liquefy it with a liquid nitrogen and methanol cold bath.
Have you contemplated possible ways of permanently fixing Hydrogen in a liquid state without having to resort to Liquid Nitrogen?

Florius Frammel
11-22-2019, 12:12 PM
Have you contemplated possible ways of permanently fixing Hydrogen in a liquid state without having to resort to Liquid Nitrogen?

A version of elemental hydrogen that's liquid anywhere near room temperature or standard air pressure is not officially known. In fact elemental hydrogen has a very low boiling point far sub zero C.

I would not exclude the possibility 100%, but
there might be other explanations possible if some analyses might indicate such an interpretation.

Weidenfeld
12-03-2019, 01:12 PM
Have you contemplated possible ways of permanently fixing Hydrogen in a liquid state without having to resort to Liquid Nitrogen?

Is there a reason why you stress on Hydrogen ? Whatever this highly volatile gas might be or composed of, it certainly couldn't be fixed or liquified under such conditions in older times, although simple freezing mixtures were commonly known in these times. Actually the description might hint to the Athoeter of Saint Germain, the famous Alkahest, SVP (spiritus vini philosophici), Dew or other similar but mysterious liquids with seemingly low boiling points, however in no case such gases that might afford a ultra low freezing mixture composed by liquid nitrogen and such.

There was a time when I thought that Ketene could fulfill this description ... however, partially only ;-)

Andro
12-03-2019, 01:23 PM
Is there a reason why you stress on Hydrogen?
Because the post was addressed to Uncle Scrooge and he was the one who brought Hydrogen up in the "Prima Materia" context (on a different thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?6136-Uncle-Scrooge-and-the-Red-Carbuncle&p=64834#post64834)).