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Andro
01-18-2020, 10:44 PM
Note: This is a Spin-Off thread, continued from: Saturneus views on Judaism's Mission in the World (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?6194-Saturneus-views-on-Judaism-s-Mission-in-the-World) and also from: Adam was the Serpent in The Garden of Eden (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?6199-Adam-was-the-Serpent-in-The-Garden-of-Eden.)
________________________


So you should realize there is truth to the rumors about the Fruit is of a sexual nature.

The Talmud reveals to us, that Adam and Eve were created 3 hours before the evening of the sixth day, and if only they had waited till sunset, and the start of the seventh day, Shabbat, G-d would have allowed them to eat of the fruit, and the Messianic era would have commenced right there and then.

Kabbalah teaches that they would have been allowed because by then their bodies would have matured enough, they would have received Mochin De'Gadlut.

[------------------------------]

Sadly our father Adam, could not wait, he saw Eve, and the temptation was too great, so he devised a plan.

The Snake was more cunning than all the beasts of the field.
The Hebrew word there for cunning is actually: Arum, which means naked.
Armumi means cunning, but... nvm.

This is Adam, assuming the role of a Snake, devising a plan and a plot.

He needed to convince Eve that it is ok to KNOW each other.
So he had done so according to how I explained in the other thread.

He allowed his lust to stoke his inner Lucifer, so he could forge his own path, and he offered this power of Lucifer to Eve. "Your eyes shall be opened and you shall be as gods..."

Eve was confused into mixing between Truth and Falsehood and between Good and Evil in the manner which was explained in the other thread.

Adam confused himself.

"G-d gives me this beautiful woman but orders me not to 'know' her?? How cruel!
Who does he think he is!? All the animals have sex yet they don't die... So why should I die? He must be lying, he is surely a cruel tyrant, and I must rebel and forge my own path..."

[-------------------------]

This is the reason, that for this day, it is the way of men to seduce women through deception...

But this doesn't conclude our story, it may surprise you, but the eating of the fruit, or rather the descent into Mochin De'Katnut, wasn't the reason they were banished and punished.

So they knew each other and conceived Cain and Able.

Yet still, they weren't banished.

Once Adam experienced sex, it overwhelmed him, just as orgasm overwhelms all male teenagers who discover masturbation.

It overwhelmed him because he had Mochin De'Katnut. Orgasm felt really good, so he can just give himself an orgasm, he doesn't need Eve.
He can just give himself one whenever Eve is not in the mood or whatever other reason comes to mind.

So one day, he did, and that's when G-d intervened.

Eve talked to the Snake, G-d didn't mind.
Eve ate, G-d didn't mind.
Adam ate, G-d suddenly shows up.

The problem of masturbation is that seed is liquified Light, it is liquified consciousness, which is in the mind of the father, and it descends 33 vertebrae down the spine to the coccyx from there it is emitted out by the phallus. (Yes it also involves the heart the liver the testicles etc.)

[------------------------]

Masturbation is when the light (According to the trinity it would be the son) inside the No-thingness womb, extends its Kav (phallus) to the womb which it is in, and not to a womb which he pulls out of himself in a lower iteration.

The infinite Light created a No-thingness womb for itself before it extended the Kav and inseminated it.
Thus it means the light is to also create a No-thingness womb of its own so it could extend its Kav and inseminate it.

[------------------------]

But when the light emits seed/light inside the very No-thingness womb which it itself is contained it... it is disastrous.

I already told you that the world (a big No-thingness womb from our perspective) is made of condensed Light, so essentially it is a Matrix made of lines of code.
Now we know, that seed is liquefied Light/consciousness which is a data file with enormous amounts of code.

What happens to any software, when code is written where it shouldn't?
Well, it becomes buggy and dysfunctional.

Seed is clean blood.
Seed is the Word spoken through the phallus, through the Yesod.
Da'ath is not the only sphere that speaks.
Spilled seed is a lying word that is spoken through the phallus.
What good is a man who does not stand by his word?

[----------------------]

To those who study Kabbalah, this is the secret of the Lost Sparks, we must bring them back, by the secret of "Return to onto me, and I shall return onto you."

The Earth CANNOT contain the sparks, it destroys the software, it corrupts the Matrix.

So... This is what happens when the No-thingness womb is defiled, when the Earth cries, when the Matrix is corrupted.

So to conclude, the descent into Mochin De'Katnut is the fall in the mind.

Masturbation was what made them fall in the physical.

This is not the end. Sadly, this is just the beginning of our poor father Adam's problems.

So, when someone tells you, the Snake was the good guy, know that he is a sexually deviant person who hates G-d for not allowing him to masturbate.

I feel that those so-called "teachings" mostly (if not entirely) revolve around the orthodox jewish obsexion with the male ejaculate, a.k.a."cum" :p

The forbidden fruit, right? The original sin, right? Salvation of the nations, right? It's all about cum. "Kabbalistic" porn at its best. And I'm not even completely joking.


I personally feel the matter settled.
Now I also feel the same. Only question remaining is if the jewish god doesn't want his male people to insert their "Kav" and plant their seed anywhere else but in the right "no-thing" hole to procreate, then how does he deal with wet dreams and nocturnal emissions? With young men, especially, if they deny themselves some "exploration', it will "cum" on its own, sooner or later. Anal-eyes this, jehova!

So why then this "divine" obsexion (not just of the jewish "god", but some other "gods" as well) with what we do with our willies? My guess is, those "gods" are in desperate need of strength and Dominion. Some go for conversion, some go for maintaining racial purity of their "chosen" and domination by minority ways. How else would they outshine the competition? Worshipers are armies and new soldiers need to be pro-created all the time. And sacrifice is currency. Carnivore or not. And just like jehova and others of his kind, ALL earthly nationalistic tyrannies are equally obsessed with the purity and preservation of racial seed. See the pattern here?

OK, now I feel it's settled... for me... Unless someone else gets ungodly aroused :p ...

OK, OK, I'm no jewish scholar and I do get a kick from shining some funny light on such (IMO ridiculous) interpretations.

Nevertheless, I think there are countless layers of Alchemical & ESOteric layers in both the OT and the NT.

I just think one must pass through the entrapments of the more EXOteric BS to get there.

Damn, now I need a smoke :cool:
-----------------------------------------------

zoas23
01-18-2020, 11:21 PM
After all these exchanges, I feel that those "teachings" mostly (if not entirely) revolve around the orthodox jewish obsexion with the male ejaculate, a.k.a."cum" :p

The forbidden fruit, right? The original sin, right? Salvation of the nations, right? It's all about cum. "Kabbalistic" porn at its best. And I'm not even completely joking.

I don't really remember ANY classical text on Qabalah that gets truly concerned with sex.
Nowadays the mystical systems that involve any "sex teaching" get quite popular (without caring if they are very libertine, very ascetic or something in between)... But I think that those who are looking for "sexual teachings" would get disappointed with classical Qabalah... quite unrelated to sex.


Now I also feel the same. Only question remaining is if the jewish god doesn't want his male people to insert their "Kav" and plant their seed anywhere else but in the right "no-thing" hole to procreate, then how does he deal with wet dreams and nocturnal emissions? With young men, especially, if they deny themselves some "exploration', it will "cum" on its own, sooner or later. Anal-eyes this, jehova!

Probably the Old Testament has the biggest warning against the practice of the "Coitus Interruptus" (aka: ejaculation outside the vagina during sex). As in Genesis 38:

[I]"8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your [dead] brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also."

Anyway.... I truly think that if a person wanted to write a book titled "How to have sex according to classical Qabalah"... that person would be in troubles.
Of course, writing an identical book on how to do it according to the Torah would be easy... but it's not really the same thing.

Andro
01-18-2020, 11:30 PM
I don't really remember ANY classical text on Qabalah [I don't get the transliteration "Kabbalah"] that gets truly concerned with sex.

feel that those "teachings" mostly (if not entirely) revolve around the orthodox jewish obsexion with the male ejaculate, a.k.a."cum"
I'm referring to the interpretations presented as "teachings" on this thread. For example interpreting Adam as the snake and the forbidden fruit/Adam's sin as unlawfully ejaculated sperm, etc...

zoas23
01-18-2020, 11:44 PM
I'm referring to the interpretations presented as "teachings" on this thread. For example interpreting Adam as the snake and the forbidden fruit/Adam's sin as unlawfully ejaculated sperm, etc...

Yes, yes, I get it.
I simply meant that the "sacred sexuality" seems to be the hype nowadays (which is something that has thousands of years in some traditions and it does not really exist in other traditions).
So I simply meant that if someone is looking for the "sacred sexuality" according to Qabalah, then such thing does not truly exist.

Other than that: some eastern traditions have a lot of teachings related to sex... a lot of them are unrelated to sperm and ejaculation, but quite often they somehow link mysticism and weird examples of virility that involve gymnastics (i.e, measuring the amount of "spirituality" and wisdom of a man by the weight he can lift with his erected penis).

vigilance
01-18-2020, 11:45 PM
After all these exchanges,

He came in saying he was an Orthodox Jew from Israel. That is not a credential. Kabbalah is not a component of exoteric Judaism. Many Jews end up studying Kabbalah like the rest of us, on their own. Reading hebrew, growing up in the cultural context, and being connected to the Jewish community with the access that provides means they definitely have advantages. It's been my experience that Jewish people studying under someone (which they will say is the meaning of "Receive", ear-to-mouth from your teacher) are all about "who your teacher is", what school or circle you are from.

I'll admit that after awhile I was only "skimming" his posts, but he avoided every direct question to autheneticate anything he was saying as actual teachings of any specific school or teacher. He also never claimed to be connected to anything. Not a single fragment of a sentence from any kabbalistic text was offered to back up his assertions.

Andro hit the nail on the head early on when he said he doubted he was here by choice, in other words, he really didn't have an audience for his message anywhere else, or he had already worn out his welcome there. Kabbalah does not boil down to what he says it does. It's very easy to prove me wrong.

It mentions these things, yesod, the seed, etc, and I provided an example from the Bahir, IN CONTEXT. Some of the "charges" you'll hear against alchemy when you start reading about it is the shock over the "pornographic imagery". An extreme viewpoint suggests that some portion of it was about trafficking these images between dirty old men to look at in their man caves, of that was part of the appeal.

The "real" interpretation of this symbolism and imagery in Kabbalah is way closer to it's meaning in Alchemy than it is to anything he said.

At the same time, the Orthodox obsession Andro mentions.. I mean it's not something I want to believe, and I'm not even sure it's limited to Orthodox, seems to have something to it. I mentioned another scenario I had where it took this strange turn all over a sudden to everything revolving around masturbating or not masturbating and dicks and all that excellent stuff.. and this person happened to be Jewish, but he wasn't orthodox or even observant I think, and studying kabbalah on his own. Is this something Jewish mothers do to their sons? On the other hand, 2 examples out of the whole is probably not statistically relevant.

As far as the OT goes, there's some pretty messed up material in there.. and a lot of the weird sex stuff, like Saturn's Xenu-like reveal, just pops up out of nowhere.

I have a theory - I think it comes from the ascetics. Hungry, horny, pissy, and resentful of everyone out there gettin' some. We have plenty of examples of what these extreme practices can lead to. Even just the enforced celibacy of the catholic church.

vigilance
01-18-2020, 11:46 PM
I don't really remember ANY classical text on Qabalah [I don't get the transliteration "Kabbalah"] that gets truly concerned with sex.


Oh god, thank you.

elixirmixer
01-18-2020, 11:46 PM
I believe the whole idea of the not blowing you're load thing has to do with the activation of negative influences within the psyche (such as lust, greedy, slothfulness, gluttony) it is the activation of the 7 anti-charkras, if you will.

Leading on from that it also has it's backlash in making a physically weaker society. Men who ejaculate, have a huge drop in testostone after doing so, so too much coming can lead to a society of easily influenced soy-boys.

Then, also, I have a personal belief that a human being has the power to become an extremely powerful wizard, if o my he would cultivate this energy, move it around the body us g wai-dan techniques, dynomize it using Bardon's brilliance, and focus it using the well known techniques for focusing the mind.

I envy other around the place who seem to have rather high level of spiritual proficiency without engaging in this highly conservative routines, nevertheless for someone such as myself I really never see myself getting to those places without it. For instance I just made love to my wife, and, unintentionally dropped just a little bit of seed, and my day is well and truly over (dispite it being 10am) I notice I have much less willpower, I turn into an 'I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this... I'm gonna do that... but really just we come slothful and gluttoness.

In summary, in my experience, resisting orgasm, and instead looking for ecstasy, is a truly empowering technique. They did a study in America on it, and to cut a long story short, those who did not spill the seed showed a huge reverse in chronic diseases such as diabetes ect...

It's certainly worth a personal experiment for anyone who have never tested such a thing.

Not to say to refrain from sex. On the contrary. It is the energy produced during sex that is the golden fruit. It's just that we don't want to then spill it away, we want to store in in the body by stopping once it's feeling good.

An easy way to transmit the energy without having to master wai-dan, is simply to do some other physical exercise such as push-ups and sit-ups. This pushes the energy (And testostone) into the muscles and bones, right where you want it (at first).

Kibric
01-18-2020, 11:55 PM
So why then this "divine" obsexion (not just of the jewish "god", but some other "gods" as well) with what we do with our willies? My guess is, those "gods" are in desperate need of strength and Dominion. Some go for conversion, some go for maintaining racial purity of their "chosen" and domination by minority ways. How else would they outshine the competition? Worshipers are armies and new soldiers need to be pro-created all the time. And sacrifice is currency. Carnivore or not. And just like jehova and others of his kind, ALL earthly nationalistic tyrannies are equally obsessed with the purity and preservation of racial seed. See the pattern here?


Purity of seed is sexual propaganda designed to divide a population and condition them. The OT is masculine dominant in its revised version for this purpose.
The old polytheistic feminine religious worship was revised into masculine monotheistic worship.


a lot of them are unrelated to sperm and ejaculation, but quite often they somehow link mysticism and weird examples of virility that involve gymnastics (i.e, measuring the amount of "spirituality" and wisdom of a man by the weight he can lift with his erected penis).
I can't tell you how many times I've received that compliment.:o

zoas23
01-19-2020, 12:05 AM
Oh god, thank you.

LOL... are you mad because we often disagree on the Greek influence that the Sepher Yetzirah has?
We should meet and have a fight... We would certainly manage to get into the News: "Two men have a gun fight after a disagreement on the Greek influence that the Sepher Yetzirah may have". It would be kinda funny actually.

Anyway... Do you remember ANY book on Qabalah that has anything to offer about sex or how to practice a "sacred sexuality"? I really don't.

vigilance
01-19-2020, 12:27 AM
LOL... are you mad because we often disagree on the Greek influence that the Sepher Yetzirah has?
We should meet and have a fight... We would certainly manage to get into the News: "Two men have a gun fight after a disagreement on the Greek influence that the Sepher Yetzirah may have". It would be kinda funny actually.

"OH GOD THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS". Check my reply. I've felt lonely pushing that point.

I don't think we disagree on anything, that in the end, affects anything else. I just don't think we need to end up re-hashing in on every thread about Kabbalah. I'm not even sensitive about it, except for the notion of mine that we're going to bore the hell out of everyone else. There's so much more to discuss on this topics, and nearly everything is more interesting.

zoas23
01-19-2020, 01:00 AM
"OH GOD THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS". Check my reply. I've felt lonely pushing that point.

I don't think we disagree on anything, that in the end, affects anything else. I just don't think we need to end up re-hashing in on every thread about Kabbalah. I'm not even sensitive about it, except for the notion of mine that we're going to bore the hell out of everyone else. There's so much more to discuss on this topics, and nearly everything is more interesting.

Oh, OK... I thought you were angry.
Yeah, I can't get angry either because of a debate on the Greek influence on Qabalah...

I think that the fact that Qabalah traditionally excluded women also involved the fact that it also ended up excluding any kind of the so called "sacred sexual practices". Even the modern authors who get into "sacred sexuality" practices and who are very influenced by Qabalah, don't really mention Qabalah when they begin to discuss their ideas about sex.

elixirmixer
01-19-2020, 03:00 AM
Purity of seed is sexual propaganda designed to divide a population and condition them.

I really couldn't disagree with this more. Isnt the propaganda in the spilling of the seed? That's why the porn industry is receiving such large amounts of funding to get 'money' shots? To condition people into believing that its okay to give into their lusts.

The natural response as a child, after ejaculation, is to feel guilt. And its not because of a conditioning, it is an in-build guilt. A natural guilt felt in the conscience of the person. Therefore, without any pri-programing, it is the natural response to hide, hide the fact that we are masturbating, even without anyone telling us to do so.

Not to mention that the social norm is to cum. Its to fuck, and cum and eat and drink and to be merry. Are you suggesting that the small inority of groups that teach abstenance from the orgasm are in fact a secret government agenda to control the population?

The art of not cumming (white tantra) is not the same as abstinence from sex. (such as the catholics teach) it is not an attempt to condition and repress peoples sexuality. People often make this mistake, feeling like that are entitled to feel pleasure, and that the art of not-cuming is denying them this right, when in fact ,the idea of not cumming, is to cultivate sexual energy in the body, until one becomes capable of experiencing ecstasy, rather than ejaculations, a far for pleasurable, and fulfilling experience, that can also assit with ones spiritual development.

The idea that to NOT-cum, is a bad idea is completely false in my view, and i will again invite those that believe that Cumming is the way, to do a bit more research into the benefits and incredible empowerment that can occur through the practise of white tantra.

To avoid having to do another post later on, i will share some furthur practical examples now.

When you come, you feel dirty, you wouldnt want to go and shake someones hand, straight after they have been having se or wanking would you. You often sweat out oils, and in general, stink, feel tired and drained, and need a shower.

On the contrary, if you have sex, and then do not cum, you feel energized, once the horneyness subsides you feel a sense of wellness and tranquility, as opposed to feeling empty and exhausted.

Practical experimention will teach a person what is good and what is not good, and it is unneccesary to listen to the dogmas of various groups, since the results are available to any man.

I can only speak for males in the regard, because i am not a woman, and couldnt possible speculate of how they do or do not exchange energy with their environment through orgasm.

However, there is a practise called the Jade Egg, which (i could be wrong) i believe teaches this same thing, as well as female practitioners of white tantra, who also report of the spiritual benefits of sex without ejaculation..

Just a reminder... this is not to suggest that sex should not be enjoyable.... the levels of ecstasy that can be reached via white tantic methods can FAR outreach the standard orgasm in pleasure levels. well and truly.

So if you think that not-cumming is somehow a way of you missing out, im here to tell you that by not practising white tantra, you are missing out big-time on levels of pleasure you didnt know existed.

Florius Frammel
01-19-2020, 10:26 AM
Nevertheless, I think there are countless layers of Alchemical & ESOteric layers in both the OT and the NT.

I just think one must pass through the entrapments of the more EXOteric BS to get there.


This.
But even the "BS" is not necessarily there. For example the discussed part about Onan.




"8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your [dead] brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also."

You need to read that carefully: Onan did not get sentenced to death for wanking off. Neither for Coitus Interruptus. The reason for his "punishment" was that he refused the direct oder to continue his brother's bloodline.

Now this judgement could of course also be discussed, but it had nothing to do with the sexual practice of pulling it out, or masturbating. He'd probably not been the first one who did this anyway.

Awani
01-19-2020, 02:01 PM
Not sure about Judaism, but in about 700-800 BCE the "Catholic Church" used to allow priests to marry. The problem with that is offspring. Priests, bishops etc., became quite wealthy and rather than the land and real estate going back to the Church it was passed on to his children. So the practice of celibacy might have had other reasons, not only spiritual. I would not be surprised if the same kind of thing was going on in Judaism.

:p

Andro
01-19-2020, 02:14 PM
I've inserted some quotes in the first post (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?6212-The-Second-Cumming-Male-Ejaculation-Revisited&p=65921#post65921) of this thread, so it's clearer what I was originally referring to. I'm interested if there is any "Kabalistic" (or even Talmudic/Halachic/whatever) validation for those quoted claims and interpretations of the "Garden of Eden" story, making it all to be revolving around Adam's masturbation. Also, there are no traces of "sacred sexuality" or any Tantric elements in those views whatsoever, and neither are any such mentions present in Judaism, to be best of my knowledge. But I'm really not a scholar on those matters, so I'm sure others are much better informed.

Anyway, no idea who this dude has been studying with, or whether those are products of his own imagination. But in this dude's "teachings" there is a persistent, consistent & obsexive focus on the alleged "evils" of male masturbation (which according to this dude was the real reason for getting kicked out of Eden) and the allegedly divine properties of the male ejaculate. Maybe Greg is right and it could be a result of many generations of sexual repression/oppression.

Florius Frammel
01-19-2020, 02:24 PM
I'm interested if there is any "Kabalistic" (or even Talmudic/Halachic/whatever) validation for those quoted claims and interpretations of the "Garden of Eden" story, making it all to be revolving around Adam's masturbation. Also, there are no traces of "sacred sexuality" or any Tantric elements in those views whatsoever, and neither are any such mentions present in Judaism, to be best of my knowledge. But I'm really not a scholar on those matters, so I'm sure others are much better informed.

The sexual connection imo had been made through the translation of the Hebrew word יָדַע‎ (yādaʿ) as "know" in sexual contexts, giving rise to lines like "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived."

This had been done in the King James bible and in other languages too (german: Sie "erkannten" einander = they had sex).

From there it's not far to view the tree of knowledge in a sexual context.

I don't know the original meaning of that Hebrew word, so you might shed some light on this translation. For christians it might also be interesting to look at the old greek version.

elixirmixer
01-19-2020, 02:25 PM
I've inserted some quotes in the first post (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?6212-The-Second-Cumming-Male-Ejaculation-Revisited&p=65921#post65921) of this thread, so it's clearer what I was originally referring to. I'm interested if there is any "Kabalistic" (or even Talmudic/Halachic/whatever) validation for those quoted claims and interpretations of the "Garden of Eden" story, making it all to be revolving around Adam's masturbation. Also, there are no traces of "sacred sexuality" or any Tantric elements in those views whatsoever, and neither are any such mentions present in Judaism, to be best of my knowledge. But I'm really not a scholar on those matters, so I'm sure others are much better informed.

Anyway, no idea who this dude has been studying with, or whether those are products of his own imagination. But in this dude's "teachings" there is a persistent, consistent & obsexive focus on the alleged "evils" of male masturbation (which according to this dude was the real reason for getting kicked out of Eden) and the allegedly divine properties of the male ejaculate. Maybe Greg is right and it could be a result of many generations of sexual repression/oppression.

This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaXk2rEQrWc

If you can last to the 10 - 11 minute mark Andro, im sure it will start to catch your attention.

Andro
01-19-2020, 02:40 PM
The sexual connection imo had been made through the translation of the Hebrew word יָדַע‎ (yādaʿ) as "know" in sexual contexts, giving rise to lines like "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived."

This had been done in the King James bible and in other languages too (german: Sie "erkannten" einander = they had sex).

From there it's not far to view the tree of knowledge in a sexual context.

I don't know the original meaning of that Hebrew word, so you might shed some light on this translation. For christians it might also be interesting to look at the old greek version.

"Yadah" means "know" (also sexually, in the biblical context). In German there may be some differentiation between "wissen" and "kennen"/"erkennen". And "ficken" :) LOL

But the OT story does not clarify that the "sin" that got them banned was actually masturbation, and NOT sexual intercourse (for reference, see relevant quotes in the first post (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?6212-The-Second-Cumming-Male-Ejaculation-Revisited&p=65921#post65921) of this thread).

elixirmixer
01-19-2020, 02:47 PM
I disagree with Jew man that the sin was masterbation. I believe it was simply cumming, while fucking eve. As in when she ate, and then he ate it means.... "Eve came first, then told Adam it felt good, so he came next. And she became pregnant. And by losing his seed, Adam lost his immortality. And be conceiving, and beginning to create her first child, lost her immortality.

They were made whole, able to live eternally, then when they opened the seal, this perfection was broken and the life energy began to leak... ultimately leading to death. Just to clarify my views.

IMO.

Andro
01-19-2020, 02:50 PM
My view is that sexual energy is extremely powerful. Dangerous if we let it control us, but very empowering if we can consciously direct it, whether through intercourse (regardless of the involved genders), masturbation, sublimation, etc...

Some peoples/groups/cultures/religions have dedicated teachings on how to use this energy, to various degrees.

Other groups (such as Judaism, apparently) seem to prefer to opt for denial and repression, reserving it for procreation exclusively, and even then with a lot of shame involved, as is the case with super-orthodox Jews, who are often instructed to impregnate their wives through a hole in the bed-sheets, so as to minimize the dangers of getting any "dangerous" ideas...

Florius Frammel
01-19-2020, 02:53 PM
"Yadah" means "know" (also sexually, in the biblical context). In German there may be some differentiation between "wissen" and "kennen"/"erkennen". And "ficken" :) LOL

But the OT story does not clarify that the "sin" that got them banned was actually masturbation, and NOT sexual intercourse (for reference, see relevant quotes in the first post (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?6212-The-Second-Cumming-Male-Ejaculation-Revisited&p=65921#post65921) of this thread).

That's clear. Beyond the know=having sex connection to the tree of knowledge I don't "know" any connections that may lead further, or deeper.

Most mystics and alchemist sources tend to interpret the Garden of Eden in a different way anyway.

Andro
01-19-2020, 02:58 PM
I don't "know" any connections that may lead further, or deeper.
So perhaps you should "know" some "deeper" connections... LOL


Most mystics and alchemist sources tend to interpret the Garden of Eden in a different way anyway.
I know (can't even type this word like I used to anymore :)), but I was curious if this dude's claims (more specifically about masturbation being the "banning" sin) have any actual basis in Judaism.

Florius Frammel
01-19-2020, 03:16 PM
So perhaps you should "know" some "deeper" connections... LOL

You know, I was referring to my lack of knowledge of further jewish interpretations. But that joke was like a penalty of course.

A good advice actually might be to tell some to "go and know yourself!".

Andro
01-19-2020, 03:23 PM
Not sure about Judaism, but in about 700-800 BCE the "Catholic Church" used to allow priests to marry. The problem with that is offspring. Priests, bishops etc., became quite wealthy and rather than the land and real estate going back to the Church it was passed on to his children. So the practice of celibacy might have had other reasons, not only spiritual. I would not be surprised if the same kind of thing was going on in Judaism.
From what I understand, Judaism is quite different in this regard. First, Orthodox Judaism doesn't promote celibacy, but quite the opposite. Rabbis can have tons of offspring, literally. And there is no centralized church (maybe it had a sort of equivalent in the form of the 1st and 2nd Temples, but those are long gone now).

Judaism is very sectarian. Various rabbis with their courts and herds of disciples, many with disagreeing views about how stuff should be interpreted. And it's those "courts" that make the cash. You have the various hassidic courts (such as Rabbi Nachman of Breslav), the messianic ones (such as Lubaviz) and many others, spread all over. The rabbi (and especially the chief rabbi) is always the central authority for how everyone should live their lives. Very fucked up model, if you ask me. And some of those rabbis are LOADED with cash and assets! I also heard a Jewish saying, many years ago: "Wherever you have 10 Jews, you have 11 opinions". Maybe this saying is also reflective of the multitude of interpretations and the endless word-plays and splitting of hairs. But other religions seems to have caught up :)

Andro
01-19-2020, 03:28 PM
You know, I was referring to my lack of knowledge of further jewish interpretations. But that joke was like a penalty of course.

A good advice actually might be to tell some to "go and know yourself!".

Not a penalty my dear :) Just a a joke :)

And as for "Know Thyself (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself)", the Greeks had their own app :) Do you think they meant it biblically?

Florius Frammel
01-19-2020, 03:45 PM
Not a penalty my dear :) Just a a joke :)

And as for "Know Thyself (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself)", the Greeks had their own app :) Do you think they meant it biblically?

I bet they also have. Just like the GuR:

https://i.imgur.com/rdrh7Lv.jpg

Maybe they also had to smile when looking at this page.

However the accompanied recipie is a work with blood as Materia Cruda.

vigilance
01-19-2020, 03:47 PM
I've inserted some quotes in the first post (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?6212-The-Second-Cumming-Male-Ejaculation-Revisited&p=65921#post65921) of this thread, so it's clearer what I was originally referring to. I'm interested if there is any "Kabalistic" (or even Talmudic/Halachic/whatever) validation for those quoted claims and interpretations of the "Garden of Eden" story, making it all to be revolving around Adam's masturbation. Also, there are no traces of "sacred sexuality" or any Tantric elements in those views whatsoever, and neither are any such mentions present in Judaism, to be best of my knowledge. But I'm really not a scholar on those matters, so I'm sure others are much better informed.

Unlike exoteric Judaism, there is no central kabbalistic authority, and the "details" vary from period to period, and from one school/circle to the next.

A "main" or common idea is that before the Fall, that the Adam and Eve referred to were purely spiritual beings. It's pretty Gnostic - the "Fall" occurs when they incarnate into fleshy bodies, this "Flesh" being the clothes they put on. So the Fall/Original sin is Spirit mingling with "evil" matter. The exile from the Garden is the fall from the Above/Spiritual, to the Below/material.

The catalyst for "marriage in heaven" is the "stimulation of Yesod", which is brought about by "righteous human action". This refers to Tikkun, sometimes described as a "Raising of the sparks", but this comes from Lurianic kabbalah, a later developement. In a very generic sense, this could be compared to the concept of "mitzvot".

The Zohar speaks about the "Patriachs" (and "World to Come") existing thanks to the "children who study the torah". This is a reference to the way that Kabbalists "study the torah", levels of interpretation and exegesis referred to with the mnemonic "PaRdes".

In Revelations, this is "righteous action" is referred to as the "white linen" those invited to the wedding are dressed in - defined in the text as the "good deeds" of god's people.

There are different groups that right now are living out in the Judean desert (even Fundamentalist christians) communally, living their interpretation of this, in hopes of hastening the advent of the Maschiach/Messiah (Patriarch).

vigilance
01-19-2020, 03:53 PM
Orthodox Judaism doesn't promote celibacy, but quite the opposite. Rabbis can have tons of offspring,

In fact I've heard something like "there's no such thing as a unmarried rabbi". Obviously they are, but I think it's unlikely you will find one leading a major congregation. I believe this is an aspect of you life that you are supposed to have "settled" before you are trusted to lead others.

Awani
01-19-2020, 05:12 PM
And it's those "courts" that make the cash.

Ok. I see. Makes sense. Also this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB5qzQrDnZE

:p

Kibric
01-19-2020, 08:49 PM
I really couldn't disagree with this more. Isnt the propaganda in the spilling of the seed?
Purity of racial seed is propaganda. Replying to Andro. Unless you think asians should only have sex with asians. Whites with whites etc.

The natural response as a child, after ejaculation, is to feel guilt. And its not because of a conditioning, it is an in-build guilt. A natural guilt felt in the conscience of the person.
Not true at all. If you feel guilt or shame for masturbation then ejaculation, it is conditioning. Every male feels drained after ejaculation but it takes some mental gymnastics to associate it with shame or guilt.


it is the natural response to hide, hide the fact that we are masturbating, even without anyone telling us to do so.
No its something your taught. You have no context for the action until its taught to you.

I don't feel dirty after ejaculation and nor do plenty of people that i know. I think your projecting.

White tantra is fine but it never makes the distinction that ejaculation from masturbation somehow feels guilty.

Andro
01-19-2020, 09:17 PM
If you feel guilt or shame for masturbation then ejaculation, it is conditioning. No it's something you're taught. You have no context for the action until it's taught to you. I don't feel dirty after ejaculation and nor do plenty of people that i know. I think you're projecting.Indeed. Our feelings of guilt and and shame all all taught/acquired/conditioned - not innate. The level of conditioning we end up with also depends a lot on Nature & Nurture, i.e. the indoctrination present in one's upbringing vs. one's innate power to resist/reject the programming. But it's also never too late to "debug" oneself, so to speak...

Dendritic Xylem
01-19-2020, 10:59 PM
Orthodox Judaism might be sexually repressive...but less religious ethnic Jews are quite over-represented in the porn industries of the West.

https://davidduke.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/nathan-abrams-triple-xniths-porn-jews.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/jYDIhyt.jpg


There's a modern "No-Fap" movement which appears to have started with young conservatives. They believe that sexual energy is one of the most powerful motivating/creative forces in humans. They also believe that spilling or wasting this energy will cause an individual to become weak, unmotivated, and complacent. What's strange is how some Jews are angrily rejecting this movement and trying to label those who practice it as fascists.


https://pics.me.me/brian-krassenstein-follow-krassenstein-no-fap-is-fascism-plain-and-simple-63262907.png


So there are secular Jews who are trying to promote regular masturbation in Western society.
Young conservatives (alt-right "Nazis") believe that it is to weaken and demotivate fighting-age men.
Israel has actually used pornography as a weapon against Palestinians to do just that.
Israel also passed a bill blocking internet porn for it's own citizens.

Seems to me like overt sexual repression has negative consequences on society...as does unhindered sexual liberation. All things in moderation. I think that sexual liberation would be healthy if confronted from a spiritual basis. Unfortunately, it seems as though most modern people equate sexual liberation with sexual promiscuity. But sexual promiscuity seems to turn into a materialistic physical self-indulgence more often than a spiritual endeavor. That's probably not very good for society/culture.

As Cambridge anthropologist JD Unwin once said...

Cultures that had no restraint on sexuality, without exception, deteriorated in mediocrity and chaos.

Kibric
01-19-2020, 11:10 PM
But it's also never too late to "debug" oneself, so to speak
Its happens when your young so debugging can be tumultuous as an adult.


I think that sexual liberation would be healthy if confronted from a spiritual basis. Unfortunately, it seems as though most modern people equate sexual liberation with sexual promiscuity. But sexual promiscuity seems to turn into a materialistic physical self-indulgence more often than a spiritual endeavor. That's probably not very good for society/culture.
Nail on the head.:p

elixirmixer
01-19-2020, 11:43 PM
well, my personal experience is this... no body EVER talked to me about my penis having the capacity to feel good, and when i was 11 i discovered that if i poured water onto my dick in a certain way in the shower it would feel really good. After some experimentation as a child, i worked out that if i did it long enough something happened however, after this amazing good feeling did happen, I FELT VERY GUILTY. Like i had done something wrong. Like i was being watched by something, that didn't approve.

There was no connditioning at all. no one EVER spoke to me about sex. I didnt know anything about it. I didnt ven know that what i was doing was called masterbation, nevertheless, it felt very very wrong.

Then, in year 7, I was in sex ed and they showed us a video, and the video was about masturbation and on the contrary, they were teaching us that it was perfectly normal to master bate, however, in the video, the video actually said specifically "after you have these great feelings, you may feel feelings of guilt.. just ignore them..." so im quite certain that i am not the only one to have become aware of the natural sensation of guilt associated with orgasm at a young age, since they specifically taught us to ignore this feeling at school and masturbate to our hearts content.

I'm not sure how/why you guys have such a problem with this... the cultivation of sexual energy is taught esoterically in almost all cultures, it is literally the kundalini at its finest, it is the empowerment of Jing/Chi/Shen transformation. It is the Sun at the top of the Caduceus. It is the Family Jewels of the Taoist Buddists.....

This is not something that is just interpreted. It is a stone hard fact. Truth. That for full ascension one must learn to control and harness the sexual energy. It is the Union of Yoga. It is the Bridal Chamber of Christianity. To not understand this is to say, "I don't want to understand my inner nature" IMO.

And its no surprise that its not authored very much, as it is an ESOteric teaching. Not for the masses. Only for the initiated to be aware of....

Old testement.... Priests wern't allowed on the temple grounds for three days after cumming.

And noturcal emissions only occur if the person is failing to transform the energy and absord the semen into the bloodstream, or, into the bladder, if one has not yet learnt to absord via the bloodstream.

Im not going to keep raving about this anymore, but seriously... if you're walking away from this conversation without even the curiosity of what is possible through white tantra, you have trampled a very valuable pearl.

Have a good day. :)

Awani
01-20-2020, 03:23 PM
...the video actually said specifically "after you have these great feelings, you may feel feelings of guilt.. just ignore them..." so im quite certain that i am not the only one to have become aware of the natural sensation of guilt associated with orgasm at a young age...

This is La petite mort, or Little Death.

This is because of the spiritual release that comes with orgasm as a result of the expenditure of the "life force". There is nothing wrong with this. It makes sense.

Anyone seen the Mandalorian with Baby Yoda? When Baby Yoda uses the Force he passes out afterwards (because he is still a "baby"). It drains his energy.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/Lk0DMQSpLypMDBkbe7/giphy.gif

An orgasm leads to new life (unless you dump your load in someones face) and I think religious fools have used this "exhaustion" to guilt trip everybody. I would be interested to know if Little Death happens to women? Or if it is mostly men. I would guess it is more common to men than women, but I don't know.

:p

Andro
01-20-2020, 04:09 PM
would be interested to know if Little Death happens to women? Or if it is mostly men. I would guess it is more common to men than women, but I don't know.
You can ask you wife. And also send her my warmest regards & big hugs. It's been AGES since I saw her...

Awani
01-20-2020, 04:29 PM
You can ask you wife. And also send her my warmest regards & big hugs. It's been AGES since I saw her...

She doesn't and I don't think I've ever heard a woman express that. Normally they are into cuddling afterwards, unlike men who just want to get out of there. LOL. I've sent the question out on social media, to see if I get a response.

:p

Kibric
01-20-2020, 11:54 PM
I think that's what elixir is getting at.


There was no connditioning at all. no one EVER spoke to me about sex. I didnt know anything about it. I didnt ven know that what i was doing was called masterbation, nevertheless, it felt very very wrong.
Confusing this little death with guilt at a young age because of a lack of sexual education can happen.


I'm not sure how/why you guys have such a problem with this... the cultivation of sexual energy
I don't, i just wanted you to realise that this little death isn't something to associate with guilt, and that the physically draining sensation
isn't an emotional response to the act of ejaculation. No one put any of this into context for you at 11. I think that's why you felt the way you did,
and i genuinely feel bad that you grew up with this misunderstanding.

elixirmixer
01-21-2020, 07:12 AM
sigh.. im happy to agree to disagree... but it is called Little Death for a reason. Not because it makes you tired. As awani just said, it is a release of spiritual energy. Thats not a good thing. But im not out to convert a following of cum-holding priests so i dont mind what people do. I personally don't practise the abstinence from orgasm very often, but when i do, i am a better version of myself. more mental clarity, more motivation, get more shit done.

Florius Frammel
01-21-2020, 09:23 AM
sigh.. im happy to agree to disagree... but it is called Little Death for a reason. Not because it makes you tired. As awani just said, it is a release of spiritual energy. Thats not a good thing. But im not out to convert a following of cum-holding priests so i dont mind what people do. I personally don't practise the abstinence from orgasm very often, but when i do, i am a better version of myself. more mental clarity, more motivation, get more shit done.

Is there actually such a thing like a bad thing/not a good thing?

For example your particular personal "problem": If you feel guilty after masturbating, or interpret the feeling of exhaustion as "not good", you can come to the conclusion that this practice is something bad.

But wouldn't you have done it, you wouldn't know how it feels for you and what you could do "better".

So the bad thing turns not only into a good thing, but an absolutely necessary thing for your development.

Some say the Devil is just God in disguise.

BTW: Sleep was also and way more often considered to be the "Little Death". Is sleeping therefore also bad in your opinions?

Andro
01-21-2020, 11:09 AM
Some say the Devil is just God in disguise.
And vice-versa :)


threat those two imposters just the same
Anyway...

Death is essential for change. Little and great alike. Without cycles of death/change, physical immortality (even if possible) would be unbearable. We need death to change, to evolve, to "destroy" and then rebuild a more refined self, whether in this life or in another. It's probably extremely rare to achieve "full" death & rebirth in the same life. The myth of Jesus seems to be indicative of this. It's what "Dissolve & Coagulate" is about. The alchemical matter goes through cycles of death and resurrection, yet it is the same matter, and yet it is a different matter every time. "Behold, I shall make everything new!" So yes, blessed be the "Gay for Jesus" crowd, for unto them is the Eternal Kingdom, for they have been impregnated with the holy seed and shall be resurrected while still living :)

Awani
01-21-2020, 11:27 AM
Treatise of the Three Impostors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatise_of_the_Three_Impostors)

:p

Florius Frammel
01-21-2020, 12:02 PM
Death is essential for change. Little and great alike. Without cycles of death/change, physical immortality (even if possible) would be unbearable. We need death to change, to evolve, to "destroy" and then rebuild a more refined self, whether in this life or in another.

That's also the common interpretation of the 13th card of the Tarot. Also note that unlike in the newer versions, the Marseille doesn't label it as "Death". (On-Topic) Trivia: Some read the hebrew Tetragrammaton in Skeletor's back of his head in this version:
http://www.sentierodeitarocchi.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/13-Senza-Nome.jpg

Fulcanelli said the Tarot shows a complete sequence of the alchemical great work, unfortunately without further elaboration.


It's what "Dissolve & Coagulate" is about. The alchemical matter goes through cycles of death and resurrection, yet it is the same matter, and yet it is a different matter every time.

On a spagyrical/chemical level you need another substance to accomplish this sometimes. For example you need a "water" to solve a salt in. This is considered to be a "wet path". Sometimes (often, but not always with high temperatures) a single substance/mixture can dissolve (melt) and coagulate (solidify) without the addition of another substance/mixture. This is considered to be a "dry path". The symbols of Sun and Moon, Male and Female, Iron and Copper, Venus and Mars often revolve around this very concept imo.

Andro
01-21-2020, 12:39 PM
you need a "water" to solve a salt in.
That's where the "Heavenly Seed" comes in, and it actually needs to be "spilled" (imbibed) on the Earth.


This is considered to be a "wet path".
Of course it is :p

White Belt
01-26-2020, 03:30 PM
I read this and was going to add something more productive but I couldn't respect myself if I didn't share this first.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRNlxBuB9jM