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Solve et Coagula
05-22-2009, 11:40 AM
The risks of believing that the Mayan calendar ends December 21, 2012!

Carl Johan Calleman

About eight years ago John Major Jenkins and I had a debate about the meaning of the Mayan calendar end date focusing especially on whether the energies of the Long Count ends on October 28, 2011 or December 21, 2012. This still remains the most important question anybody interested in the “2012 phenomenon” is faced with, but while at the time the debate might have seemed theoretical, or even hairsplitting, it is now a question that has very significant and practical consequences as to how we relate to the future. While many would like to sweep the end date question under the rug or sit on the fence, no one can do so with their intellectual integrity intact. Since that debate Jenkins has appeared on a History Channel documentary where December 21 2012 is presented as a predetermined “doomsday” when the world is going to come to an end. I get quite a few letters, sometimes from young people that worry that the world will come to an end at this date since they have seen this documentary posted on YouTube. While most knowledgeable people would probably reject this way of presenting the Mayan calendar it is still important to ask the question who benefits from it. I feel there are indeed many people, also apart from the participants in such documentaries that benefit from the claim that the Mayan calendar ends December 21, 2012. Thus, I do not think that it is an accident that we do not hear of the October 28, 2011 date in public media. To begin with, as far as I know no one who adheres to the end date of October 28, 2011 has ever presented this as a predetermined doomsday and thus unduly associated the Mayan calendar with fear.

Continue to read:
http://www.calleman.com/content/articles/risk_of_2012.htm

Play_Dough
05-22-2009, 04:47 PM
Well, the most ridiculous reply is that the Mayan Calendar cannot have ended on October 28, 2011 because the world has not ended (not reported on the internet). :-)

Aside from that, the Mayan calendar seems to be constructed around galactic events and The Gregorian Calendar is centered around designing a calendar that accurately matches the seasons.

The Gregorian Calendar has (at least) five errors (personal research) that have not, as yet, been accounted for:
1) no year '0'
2) Having Christ's date of birth occurring after the death of King Herod (4 BC) which is a contradiction of the New Testament.
3) a 'light speed' error of 2 degrees which translates to 144 years of precessional (Precession of the Equinox) movement.
Note: the Gregorian Calendar designers did not realize that visual observations of the Sun were, in fact, 8 1/2 minutes (time) 'late' (speed of light) and that their observations of the Sun were 'off' by 2+ degrees of arc.
4) The Gregorian Calendar designers and implementers played 'Wheel of Fortune" with the calendar and all of the subsequent calendar changes (some as much as 11 days) disregarded the wheel of the zodiac.
5) There are no computations for Precession of the Equinox with The Gregorian Calendar.

The end result is that The Gregorian Calendar is a masterpiece of accuracy regarding the attunement of the calendar with the seasons. On the flip-side, the calendar is erroneous regarding the actual planetary locations (here and now) of the sidereal zodiac.

The bottom line (my opinion, based on research) is that The Gregorian Calendar is terrific for knowing when to get your long underwear out of moth-balls but is useless for computations of galactic cycles (or astrology charts).

The Mayan Calendar (long count) is 'celestial' (positions of bodies in space) and The Gregorian Calendar is 'terrestrial' (pertaining to the seasons).

An additional and important item is that we are uncertain about 'when' the Mayan Calendar actually started (estimated 3114 BC by a flimsy consensus) and if we use Gregorian dates in an attempt to try to figure it out then we only compound the confusion.

It seems quite reasonable, that if we knew when The Mayan Calendar actually started, and combined that information with what we know for sure regarding the Mayan Calendar's time periods (long count) then there would be no problem in the determination of when (date) the calendar ends.

The problem is that we do not know when the Mayan calendar started, however, my research shows that the start of The Mayan Calendar and the estimated construction of The Great Pyramid (appear to be) are very very close (time wise). (pyramids are 'the link')

It seems that the ancient Mayans were aware that our solar system actually travels around the milky way and that the end of the Mayan Calendar is based upon one of these huge (millions of years) cycles.

Otherwise, it is a cosmological mystery which, (opinion) reveals the flaws of the Western scientific model; the flaw being that all of our measurements get really fuzzy on the edges. This Mayan Calendar debate underscores the problems (now apparent) in matters of certainty and precise measurements.

It seems that the ancient Mayan astronomers knew things that contemporary Western astronomers have not, as yet, discovered.

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Ghislain
05-28-2009, 09:45 PM
Herod the Great (37 BC – 4 BC in Jericho) is commonly confused with his son Herod Antipas, also of the Herodian dynasty, who was ruler of Galilee (4 BC - 39 AD)

Opinionated Question: (Many great things are discovered by accident...the Mayans had a great interest in the planets and stars and maybe a little too much time on their hands and thus came up with - what is to us - an amazingly accurate calender...but were they aware of the 'precession of the equinox' or was it just a good timely calculation of where things were over a long period of time?)

The concept of zero as a number and not merely a symbol for separation is attributed to India where by the 9th century CE practical calculations were carried out using zero <- wiki. When we are born we say we are in our 1st year and when we are one year old we are starting our second year... A 0th, 0nd or 0rd year would be a bit weird <- again opinion only

When one sees a card trick it can appear as magic...until you see how it was done :(

Brownian motion is the seemingly random movement of particles suspended in a fluid, very hard to say where any one particle may be at any one time, but take out a spoonful of the liquid and count the particles and you get, pretty much, the same count each time...fuzzy but it will do :)

How did someone come to the conclusion that an end to a calender means the end of the world :rolleyes:

Apocalypticism is the belief that civilization, as we know it, will soon come to a tumultuous end with some sort of global event...<-wiki. 'that should do it' :D

Around 900 AD the Maya civilization collapsed. The Maya abandoned many of the cities of the central lowlands or were killed off by a drought-induced famine. Did they see that coming? In 1519 Spanish contact resulted in an epidemic that devastated the native populations. You can guess what I'm going to say ;)

Hope that wasn't too cynical.

Dizardos
05-29-2009, 12:39 AM
It is not the destruction of the world that I am afraid of. Those who look at it from such a perspective will most certainly be stabbed in the back by a most destructive force. What I am afraid of is the death of alchemy. There are hardly any alchemists (disciples of the alchemical art would be a more fitting term) left in the world and despite all the toil and trouble only a minute fraction of all those will ever be successful. Truth appears to fade into non-existence as fast as the world population increases. Quantity instead of quality.

My apologies. None of it was good enough. With time comes change, but what those changes will be remains to be seen.

Salazius
05-29-2009, 08:08 AM
What I am afraid of is the death of alchemy.

Alchemy survived since Atlantis, why not to the 30 th century ?
I'm not very worried about that.
And what would it do if ever it died ? One day or another, someone would rediscover it. Some very secret societies, existing since Egyptian Dynasties are still alive and do alchemy, they are the guardians, are there is a lot of guardians, more than you can imagine. For Alchemy, it has always been hard to survive. Because it's a more than hidden Science.
Alchemy is engaged into the evolutionary cycle of humanity. As such, it need to stay for some time again under the level of the open light/sight.

Play_Dough
05-29-2009, 06:03 PM
edited....



Opinionated Question: (Many great things are discovered by accident...the Mayans had a great interest in the planets and stars and maybe a little too much time on their hands and thus came up with - what is to us - an amazingly accurate calender...but were they aware of the 'precession of the equinox' or was it just a good timely calculation of where things were over a long period of time?)

The concept of zero as a number and not merely a symbol for separation is attributed to India where by the 9th century CE practical calculations were carried out using zero <- wiki. When we are born we say we are in our 1st year and when we are one year old we are starting our second year... A 0th, 0nd or 0rd year would be a bit weird <- again opinion only



just some notes....

The 'Herod' who died in 4 BC was the Herod mentioned in the New Testament. Suggesting that, in order for the New Testament's time-line to be accurate, then Jesus Christ had to be 'born' prior to Herod's demise... because of the 'flight to Egypt' resulting from Herod's desire to do away with the baby Jesus, and the subsequent return of Jesus and his family after Herod's reign of terror was ended by his passing. (Just a 'temporal' analysis [sequence of events, as reported] of the time line).
(Also, a metaphor of the resistance of 'inherent negativity' to attempt to quash [kill] attempts designed to create 'becoming good').

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I have not, as yet, found any verifiable evidence that proves that the Mayan astronomers were aware of precession. However, it should have become apparent to them (their astronomers) that everything in the outer universe seemed to be 'backing-up' 1 degree (arc) every 72 years.

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When a child is in his or her first year of life then that child does not become '1' (year of age) until the completion of the first year of life.
("Gee, your baby is so cute, how old is the little tyke?" "Oh, thank you, Godzilla is 6 months old and will be a year old in November, unlike The Gregorian Calendar which was never less than 1 year old"). :-)

The Gregorian Calendar started out already chewing on the furniture, it didn't have to wait a year! :-)

All astronomical (scientific) 'temporal' calculations, for remote periods and astronomical events , insert a 'year 0' to avoid the 'no year 0 error' or oversight or intentional omission of The Gregorian designers.

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Re: (Quote) "You can guess what I'm going to say?" (end quote)

Yes, I think that I can ! :-) It seems (my present opinion) that you (?) may be wondering if daily "Brownian motion experiments" producing random movement of particles suspended in a resulting fluid (Mayan-aise?), can affect one's mind. :-) Self restraint may provide an answer. http://forum.alchemyforums.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

However, if your were alluding to 'astrology' (As Above, So Below - 'All is a Unity') then it may not be relevant in the cosmological (great cycles) aspects of The Mayan Calendar which (long count) dealt with astronomical cycles and not (it seems?) the fate of civilizations.
The whole contemporary 'apocalyptic issue' seems (opinion) to stem from a misinterpretation (literal rather than metaphorical) of The Book of Revelation which is most probably a metaphorical account of inner-events when a person becomes 'enlightened' (a crashing of the cultural paradigm, the dissolution of ego and the vanquishment of dysfunctional patterns....) a 'personal' rather than a universal apocalypse caused by 'the light' going on in someone's psyche.

It reminds me of a two-window cartoon - In the first window some guy asks 'God' to destroy his enemies, and in the second window the guy is being struck by lightning. :-)

The I-Ching, perhaps, would say... "The Sage cannot enter (pass through) the tiny gate of the Palace of Enlightenment while riding on an ass".
So, light enters, ego disintegrates and wa-la! .... A personal apocalypse occurs wherein everything is turned (relative) up-side-down and becomes chaotic for a period of time, the length of which is self-determined according to the grievousness of one's misalignment with (?) 'natural law'. So.... 'Satan' (inherent evil) is replaced by 'Christ' (or some cultural expression of spiritual illumination) within a context (the self) wherein the 'evil' (delusion and error) had reigned for a very very long time.

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Play_Dough
05-29-2009, 07:09 PM
It is not the destruction of the world that I am afraid of. Those who look at it from such a perspective will most certainly be stabbed in the back by a most destructive force. What I am afraid of is the death of alchemy. There are hardly any alchemists (disciples of the alchemical art would be a more fitting term) left in the world and despite all the toil and trouble only a minute fraction of all those will ever be successful. Truth appears to fade into non-existence as fast as the world population increases. Quantity instead of quality.

My apologies. None of it was good enough. With time comes change, but what those changes will be remains to be seen.

Opinion -
We are, cosmologically speaking, at the end of the 'Age of Suffering' (Pisces), and the final stages of the age (degrees of expiation) are likely to continue to be intense (nuclear craziness, chemical inundation, global warming, apocalyptic assessments, misguided DNA experiments, financial collapse, etc., etc.).

But, I am confident that alchemy will rise out of the ashes and be reborn (and perhaps reconfigured). The alchemical symbolism is much too mysterious and compelling to simply fade into oblivion.

Things seem to move in cycles.... they go from 'empty' to 'full' and then return to empty then go again to fullness.

I am optimistic. In fact, I can not recall a time in history when alchemy was a craze or a fad. Alchemy, it seems, has always been a passion for a select few and 'the few' now seem to be very few (relative) because of global population issues.

The whole emerging DNA craze is, at it's core, 'alchemical'. Mainstream science is now only 'catching-up' with what alchemists have suspected all along (re: transformations created by the rearrangement of building blocks).

Then it's only a short walk to 'DNA type' of science that deals with the rearrangement of inorganic matter and substances.

So (opinion), we will always have archetypal alchemy (small group) and now we will have the gradual emergence of 'quantum alchemy' (i.e., The Hadron Collider).

For as long as the cosmos 'strives for perfection' there seems that there will be alchemists participating.

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