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Aleilius
05-25-2009, 07:33 PM
This is gold chloride from the HCl/H2O2 method:

Aleilius
05-25-2009, 07:47 PM
The gold chloride solution has already been reduced to 1/4th of the total volume. I'll reduce this even more until roughly 1/10th of the original volume remains. Then I'll add HCl, an excess of sodium chloride, and boil this down until just moist salts. I'll add more HCl, and repeat the process. I should be left with roughly pure NaAuCl3.

This is a bit different than multiple boil downs with HCl and digestion with NaCl.

Aleilius
05-30-2009, 03:48 PM
First pic is end of 1st HCl + NaCl boil down. Second pic is end of third HCl + NaCl boil down. At this point it just looks like a very concentrated salt solution. I'll boil this down, start another boil down, and then stop midway through and stopper it shut.

Aleilius
05-30-2009, 04:08 PM
Near the end of the third boil down:

Aleilius
05-30-2009, 04:30 PM
So it looks like nothing is really happening. I don't see any strange color changes, or any visual indication of success. I guess the real test will be precipitation.

I used concentrated HCl for all boil downs.

Aleilius
05-30-2009, 04:42 PM
After the third & final boil down I added concentrated HCl and stoppered it shut. Here are pictures:

Jerry
05-30-2009, 05:24 PM
This is gold chloride from the HCl/H2O2 method:
Could you cite the original source material/literature for this method?

Aleilius
05-30-2009, 05:34 PM
I'm not sure about the source material. I've heard it's been used by gold refiners for many years, but I think Barry Carter claims to have invented it.

It's easy, and very effective. I used concentrated HCl + 3% H2O2. I don't have the exact molar ratios. I added HCl, and then over the course of a few days added 5-10 ml of H2O2. Use a little heat to speed up the process, or use concentrated hydrogen peroxide (greater than 3%).

I didn't use very much gold. Probably around 50-100 mgs of pure 24k gold. That took about two days to dissolve with low heat being applied.

Jerry
05-30-2009, 07:35 PM
I'm not sure about the source material. I've heard it's been used by gold refiners for many years, but I think Barry Carter claims to have invented it.
I presume you are trying to make some sort of Aurum potabile from gold by first converting gold into a chloride. In one post you bring up Fulcanelli, but didn’t Fulcanelli also say that ‘there isn’t one atom of gold in the Aurum potabile'? This method does appear to be some invention of the Glitterati.

If you were to go to some original source material you would be working in a different direction. Read the following book on the true Aurum potabile:

The apologie, or defence of a verity heretofore published concerning a medicine called aurum potabile: that is, the pure substance of gold, prepared, and made potable and medicinable without corrosiues, helpfully giuen for the health of man in most diseases, but especially auaileable for the strenghning and comforting of the heart and vitall spirits the perfomers of health: as an vniversall medicine. Together with the plaine, and true reasons ... confirming the vniversalitie thereof. And lastly, the manner and order of administration or vse of this medicine in sundrie infirmities. By Francis Anthonie of London, doctor in physicke. Francis Anthonie (Anthony), 1616.

The preparation of the Aurum potabile can be found on pages 112 – 114 in which are described three “formes”. Dr. Anthony gives sufficient information in the various formes to suspect he is not using gold (Au).

Under: “The first forme”:

“But it is to be knowne and obserued, that this Medicine of gold, though made of one body, yet is reserued and vsed in three formes and consistencies, which not being knowne, there may be much mistaking and errour in the vse and administration thereof.”

“First, when the gold is dissolued in the proper menstrual or instrumentall water, this water is distilled way from the dissolued gold; vntill it be in the bottome in the forme or consistence of a liquid gum or hony, deepely coloured (as Raymound Lully cals it) & most unctuous. To which, the spirit of wine then put, and by solution thereof, tincted very red and deepe coulored. That tincted spirit of wine is gently decanted or powred off, and so reserued by it selfe in a glasse. And this is called the Physicall Tincture of gold.”

Questions: Did you see where it is stated: “made of one body”? Isn’t this the same thing that is said by many of the adepts, the use of one or two substances? How does gold dissolve in its own water?

Didn’t Fulcanelli (Dwellings?) mention something to the effect that “the substance must be distilled to a gum before it under goes the Hermetic coction'?

There does appear to be some concordance or agreement in the thinking of Fulcanelli, Dr. Anthony, and Lully; and none in the method you are pursuing.

Aleilius
05-30-2009, 08:18 PM
I presume you are trying to make some sort of Aurum potabile from gold by first converting gold into a chloride. In one post you bring up Fulcanelli, but didn’t Fulcanelli also say that ‘there isn’t one atom of gold in the Aurum potabile'? This method does appear to be some invention of the Glitterati.

I'm sorry, but you're making a wrong presumption. I'm not trying to make the aurum potabile. This is in preparation for something else. To test a certain theory I have. I am merely experimenting with the preparation of 'supposed' m-state gold. All while trying to perform a feeble attempt at documentation. How does this relate to Fulcanelli? Please show me the post in question, and maybe I can explain a bit more.

I didn't post this in the main alchemy section because I never intended it to relate to alchemy. Please try not to draw any presumptuous parallels next time. It'll be easier on both of us.


Questions: Did you see where it is stated: “made of one body”? Isn’t this the same thing that is said by many of the adepts, the use of one or two substances? How does gold dissolve in its own water?
I know what you're trying to say here, but how did you draw the conclusion that this concerns my current experiment?

Aleilius
05-31-2009, 09:54 PM
1. After filtering and removal of excess salt.
2. First precipitation with NaOH. A black precipitate has formed.
3. Third picture was taken approximately 15 minutes after 1st precipitation.

Aleilius
06-01-2009, 01:22 AM
Here are a few more pictures:

1. Take approximately 30 minutes after first NaOH precipitation.
2. Taken after additon of HCl (had to boil this down to evaporate some of the water content).
3. Beginning of 2nd NaOH Precipitation.
4. Adding more NaOH.
5. End of 2nd NaOH precipitation. It's a very deep purple/black color.

Vlad
06-01-2009, 02:13 AM
Did you add the NaOH drop by drop while stirring? It seems hard to do while using a testtube; stirring that is. If you just add NaOH by pouring it in and not drop by drop with a vortex it will be practically impossible to get other colors, you'll always end up with blue black or brown precipitates. Although this is only the second swing though so it could also be normal it's still that same color.

Aleilius
06-01-2009, 02:30 AM
Yes, I'm trying to be as careful as possible. I don't have a real way to test for pH yet, and I'm only really going by instinct here. I'm running low on HCl though. To reacidify takes more than I imagined. I think I'll reacidify and check for a golden color. If it's not present then I'll probably begin with the digestion process again.