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Vlad
07-08-2009, 02:17 AM
I got a white precipitate that might be ORMUS.
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I made a strong iodine solution consisting of 10g KI dissolved in 100 ml H2O to which I added 5g I2.
Almost all the Iodine crystals dissolved.

I then took two flasks of 100 and 50 ml each.

To both I added some dead sea salt, almost a teaspoon.
To one flask I also added some distilled water, dissolving the salt.

To both flasks I then added some strong iodine solution.
Something like 10 ml to each.

I let this sit a day.

I then added about 10 ml of diethyl ether to each flask.

I swirled the flasks, then pipetted about 5 ml of the ether off each flask, transferring it to a beaker for evaporation.

The beaker that had the ether from the salt not dissolved in water but with straight iodine solution added, did yield nothing.
(edit: ) I added acetone to that beaker. The iodine-ether remains on the beaker walls dissolved coloring the acetone orange. I am letting it evaporate to see if miniscule amounts of oil would be there. My thinking is the acetone would react with the iodine taking it out.

The beaker that had the ether from the salt predissolved in water and then with iodine solution added, yielded some metallic grey mostly needle shaped crystals. I suspected it was iodine.

I added some NaOH solution to the crystals to see if I would get a precipitate.

The suspected iodine dissolved leaving a slightly yellow solution.
And I got a white precipitate like substance.

It could be a magnesium hydroxide.
But I don't think the magnesium would end up as iodide and if it would extract in ether (doubt it). I don't think magnesium as the chloride and bromide in Dead Sea salt would favor giving up the Br or Cl to bind with OI- or whatever the exact ligand is in strong iodine solution.

I will isolate the white powder and dry it and see if it dissolves in HCl, and if not add HNO3 and see if it does.

If not, this is an interesting result that might show there is gold orme in DSS.

Vlad
07-08-2009, 02:50 AM
Hmm, there is a significant amount of white 'cloud'/'haze', probably dispersed precipitate, that rises to the surface and doesn't want to sink. It just sticks from the surface of the water up to a centimer down into it. Seems like ormus stuff.
There is also some white powder like precipitate at the bottom.
Magnesium hydroxide looks similar to white gold precipitate but definitely sinks immediatelly as today I freshly precipitated some with the same NaOH solution and definitely saw it sink immediately.

Aleilius
07-08-2009, 02:53 AM
I made a strong iodine solution consisting of 10g KI dissolved in 100 ml H2O to which I added 5g I2.
That's an interesting solution you've made. Do you have any gold on hand? Add a little gold to this solution and digest for a while. See if anything happens.

Another idea that comes to mind involves stratyfing gold powder + iodine crystals in multiple layers, and then subliming. Do this a number of times, and I think we'll see an interesting reaction happen. The resulting powder should be a yellow/orange mass, and this can be added to a KI solution, and then do the boil downs viz. Hudson style.


But I don't think the magnesium would end up as iodide and if it would extract in ether (doubt it).
Yeah you're right I believe, I don't think it's soluble in ether.

I really don't know what this white powder could be. It might be finely dispersed magnesium hydroxide, but I've never seen magnesium hydroxide float on the surface of a solution. Is it a cloudy layer of oil (doubt this is likely)?

Vlad
07-08-2009, 02:55 AM
My original intention was to use this solution to dissolve gold.
I couldn't get the gold leaves off the paper, so I dissolved some gold shot in aqua regia and today precipitated it out with KOH. I got the typical brown calx.

I'll try to dissolve it later. It should.

Aleilius
07-08-2009, 02:59 AM
Very interesting then! I can't wait to see the results. :)

Vlad
07-08-2009, 09:17 AM
It has settled now and after adding distilled water to wash it I felt a sensation of energy at the forehead, which I don't feel from magnesiumhydroxide but remember feeling when working with pure m-gold. Very subjective but it's a marker.

Other more objective indicators:

- It took a long time to settle; several hours. Magnesium hydroxide settles very quickly. So does silica hydrogel.
- The centimer of 'white haze' of precipitate floating just below the surface of the water that wouldn't settle for a long time: magnesium hydroxide precipitate and silica hydrogel don't show this behaviour.
- Same color as m-gold precipitate. Mg(OH)2 is brighter white. Silica hydrogel is duller white.

There is like a milliliter or maybe at best two, from a teaspoon of dead sea salt.
Doesn't look like a large portion of dead sea salt is presumed possible m-gold though.

Vlad
07-09-2009, 12:01 AM
The beaker that had the ether from the salt not dissolved in water but with straight iodine solution added, did yield nothing.
(edit: ) I added acetone to that beaker. The iodine-ether remains on the beaker walls dissolved coloring the acetone orange. I am letting it evaporate to see if miniscule amounts of oil would be there. My thinking is the acetone would react with the iodine taking it out.

The acetone was nearly completely evaporated and a purple-brown orangish oil was left. I poured NaOH solution onto it (AuI2- is stable until pH 12), and immeditally saw a lot of white precipitate appear and an energy field/rush emanating from it. Looks like there was also possible m-gold tied with the iodine remains on the sides of the beaker.

Vlad
07-10-2009, 07:49 PM
Hmm.
I put the 100 ml beaker with the few milliliterers of precipitate on a hotplate to dry.
I put it in the exact center of the hotplate and turned to heat to setting 3 of 5 to evaporate quicker.

Come to check 5 mins later and the precipitate has been pushed to the edges of the beaker. Like a beautiful ring with the middle of the beaker bottom absolutely precipitate free.

I never saw something like this. Is this a common chemical behaviour effect of precipitates or ormus like?

Vlad
07-10-2009, 07:51 PM
The powder dried.

Strange substance.

I did the most irresponsible thing first.
I first tasted the powder by licking the white dust off my finger.
(I figured nothing really toxic would be present anyway from chemicals used)

Tasted like iodine.
Also gave a very definite effect at the center of the chest.
I wouldn't call it an energy ormus rush. Not really a tightness either. More like a combination.

I figured I maybe had some gold iodine compound.

To another batch now settling I had added some H2O2 when I noticed after adding KOH to precipitate the solution was still faint yellow indicating KI/I or so in solution.
Immediatelly after adding H2O2 the solution cleared dropping a lot more white precipitate.

I had not done this to this first batch so I figured maybe some KI/I was left in the mix with the dried precipitate.

So I added some H2O2 and thought I saw a dissolution happening, but noticed some powder was left.

Then I added dillute HCl and everything dissolved.
I then added a little bit more H2O2 and swear I saw something like an oilyness on/just below the surface of the HCl with the dissolved powder.

I added distilled water and raised the pH with potassium bicarbonate (which normally gives a white precipitate if it's typical m-state) and nothing precipitated out.

I had saved some powder, added H2O2 to that, and noticed everything dissolved.

That's strange.
It precipitates out of alkaline solution.
Doesn't dissolve in neutral distilled water.
But dissolves in H2O2?

Maybe the H2O2 reacted with iodine present immediatelly creating a condition to further dissolve what precipitated out at first?

If that's the case then the next batch I'm making should not show that behaviour since there is H2O2 mixed in with the water with the settling precipitate.

Vlad
07-12-2009, 01:37 AM
I added HCl to the new batch of white precipitate. This turned the clear solution orange brown indicating release of iodine and apparent bonding with chlorine.

I then added potassium bicarbonate, enough to bind the iodine as the solution cleared with a very faint yellow after stirring, and to neutralize the pH or get it somewhere above neutral (around 8.5).

Normally this precipitates gold salts and white gold but nothing precipitated out.

Then the question arises what the iodine salt is that extracts into ether and upon neutralization gives a white precipitate .

Vlad
07-12-2009, 02:20 AM
Strange.

I had split the precipitate in two batches so I had another batch to test on.

I also added HCl to it. Same reaction. Brown orange coloration.

Then I added KOH. Clear to faint yellow solution.
A lot more alkaline than the KHCO3 added solution.

Adding KOH yielded, again, the white precipitate.

I found it strange. Shouldn't the HCl have bonded to whatever the iodine was bonded to and the KOH form potassium iodide with the free iodine (brown orange coloration).

Why did adding new KOH again give the white precipitate at high pH but not at lower alkaline pH?

I added HCl and got brown orange coloration again.
Indicating the white precipitate has iodine in it.

I added KHCO3 this time and did not get all the iodine to react and the orange color to disappear. Testing the pH it was slightly above neutral.
I split the solution and to one part I added a little bit of concentrated H2O2. This cleared the solution up. Apparently the iodine did then react.

To the other part I added ether. I am letting it evaporate because I am going to acidify it with HCl again first and then add ether to see if any metal is present whether I'll get a chloride after evaporation of the ether and hopefully sublimation of the iodine.

Vlad
07-12-2009, 02:34 AM
"Probably this is because IO2- salts are stable until pH 12 so it's maybe such a salt precipitated."

I just looked it up on the net. It's AuI2- not IO2- but I swear I read something about IO2- somewhere.

Vlad
07-13-2009, 06:32 AM
This white powder is cool.

Check it out:

I had added some ammonium nitrate to the solution.
I added HCl.
Then added ether and extracted.

White ammonium nitrate like crystals were left this morning after all the ether has evaporated. No trace of purple or yellow.

These crystals looked a lot like the dried crystals obtained after the oil from golden water dries.

I thought ammonium would not be soluble in ether when bonded to something but apparently it is.
I assume the salt is an ammonium salt because it really looked like it.

I added (dillute) HCl.
No dissolution
I added some concentrated H2O2.
No dissolution.

I neutralized the solution with potassium bicarbonate.
This dissolved the salt.

I just looked it up on the net and it's not ammonium iodide which is almost not soluble in ether and soluble in water which should have happened after addition of dillute HCl and H2O2.
It's also not ammonium chloride as this dissolves in water.

It might be m-stuff!

Vlad
07-13-2009, 09:54 AM
My original intention was to use this solution to dissolve gold.

I put like 50 mg of brown gold calx (gotten from precipitating gold out of aqua regia with KOH) in uhm, I think 20 ml of that strong KI/I solution.

I checked two days later and there still was undissolved brown powder on the bottom of the beaker, so I added a shot of 30% H2O2.

That was cool!

No really, always be careful adding strong H2O2 to anything, because I added too much and the beaker/solution quickly fizzed/heated up to boiling with a cloud of purple iodine smoke streaming out of it.

Like I said, it was cool!

A day or maybe two later, there still was brown powder left on the bottom.

So I added KOH to the dark purple-brown solution, and it cleared to a yellow solution.

I suspected there might have been gold dissolved and trapped in the yellow solution as salt, so I added more H2O2, and yes brown clouds of gold appeared.

I seem to have my original volume of brown calx back now it has settled.

So KI/I with or without H2O2 might work for dissolving gold but it doesn't seem particularly fast or effective. Maybe with digestion leaving it in a sandbath for weeks or months it might dissolve the gold well.

It doesn't really emit fumes though so that's a plus. I left the beaker only covered with a paper towel and didn't smell anything at all.

solomon levi
07-14-2009, 05:36 PM
Thanks for the reports Vlad.
I haven't anything to add.
Just wanted you to know there's interest. :)