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True Initiate
09-17-2009, 05:59 PM
Hi all

I have found very cheap camp stove's and i am wondering how high they can go in temperature?

I need at least 800C heat...

Do you think camp stove like this can do that???

http://www.nagy.ch/cevi/content/bilder/matfoeteli/Gaskocher.JPG

http://picnica.ciao.com/de/2869490.jpg

MarkostheGnostic
09-20-2009, 04:52 AM
I've had one of those blue numbers since high school (graduated 1971)!
If I wanted an athanor at this point, I would probably build one outside from small cement blocks from The Home Depot. One could stay traditional and add a bellows, or be modern and introduce a small motorized blower.

I just bought a 2000 ml Glas-Col heating mantle for a mere $49 on eBay (Distillatio), when they are over $200. A Variac also went for the same price. For Calcinatio, I found some crucibles for under $2 (happy to send link), and one can use a Bunsen/Meker burner + a ceramic triangle on a tripod stand. Just connect a hose to a Bernzo-Matic torch. With any hotplate, a water bath (Bain Maria), oil bath, or ash/sand bath is possible.

D.Frich
12-04-2009, 12:57 PM
So how do you like to camp? Can be in general or specifically for when youre wheeling, Im just curious and trying to decide what way I want to go with camping supplies.

solomon levi
12-04-2009, 04:18 PM
Hi all

I have found very cheap camp stove's and i am wondering how high they can go in temperature?

I need at least 800C heat...

Do you think camp stove like this can do that???

http://www.nagy.ch/cevi/content/bilder/matfoeteli/Gaskocher.JPG

http://picnica.ciao.com/de/2869490.jpg

No, I don't think so.
But maybe if you help it from above with a propane torch.

I found a site where a guy melts pewter and aluminum on a propane
camp stove and he said the pewter melts easily but the aluminum needs
help from above with the torch. Aluminum mp is 659C

solomon levi
12-04-2009, 04:19 PM
Markos - what's the link for the crucibles? ;)

MarkostheGnostic
12-05-2009, 02:10 AM
Markos - what's the link for the crucibles? ;)

Crap! We just 'converted' from PC (Dell) to Apple, and my favorites didn't make the transfer. I have to search, but, weirdly enough, the crucibles came from a Christian bookstore?!!

AHA! Thoth guideth me...to my receipt box:
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/easy_find/1019075751?Ntk=keywords&Ntt=crucibles&action=Search&N=0&

It doesn't make sense, but here is the link. I just opened it, but they have seem to run dry, and only one size is named (along with crucible tongs), sandwiched between Miller's book The Crucible ??? I bought a 10 ml for .79, 3, 50 ml for $1.29 ea., and 2, 100 ml porcelain evaporating dishes for $1.79 each.

solomon levi
12-05-2009, 09:38 AM
Wow. What a deal!
And what an odd place to find crucibles.
Although it makes sense to an alchemist - Christ - cross - crucible. ;)

Thanks.

Serpent
12-09-2009, 10:19 AM
Greetings!

I was wondering what people here think of butane and propane burners as a source of heat, as opposed to blow torches or bunsen burners.

Salazius
12-09-2009, 11:58 AM
Gaz torch are easy, and quick for use, clean also, no ashes or fumes every where etc, and you can light it in your cellar with no problem. It's quite good for alchemy.

Serpent
12-10-2009, 11:45 AM
Gaz torch are easy, and quick for use, clean also, no ashes or fumes every where etc, and you can light it in your cellar with no problem. It's quite good for alchemy.

Thank you Salazius. In your opinion, what are the differences of gas torches from a camping stove for example? Both use gas, but I guess from a convenience point of view, stoves are usually fueled by replaceable cans, whereas torches need a connecting tank. Am I correct?

Salazius
12-10-2009, 12:08 PM
Yes and the power is not at all the same.
Gaz torch can be used for a very long time, days for example, whereas a campstove last 5 hours (in my case).
I use the gaz torch for dry ways etc and the stove for distillations for example.

Serpent
12-10-2009, 10:40 PM
Yes and the power is not at all the same.
Gaz torch can be used for a very long time, days for example, whereas a campstove last 5 hours (in my case).
I use the gaz torch for dry ways etc and the stove for distillations for example.

When you say "stove for distillations", what kind of stove do you mean? Is it more effective than using a flame to distill?

Is it necessary for some operations for a flame to be used for over two hours? I can see that replacing cans for camp stoves would be frequent though.

If I was going to get a camp stove, I thought this one looked neat:

Portable Micro Lab Burner
http://www.hometrainingtools.com/images/118/CE-BURNLAB.jpg

"It holds 40 grams of butane which burns for 1-2 hours. The output of this burner is about 2000 BTU/hour and it boils a 250ml beaker full of water in about two minutes. It generates a flame temperature of up to 2000F."

Would something like that be sufficient, or would it be much wiser to invest in a gas torch system?

I am just beginning to set up a lab to practice in the plant kingdom, and hopefully eventually the metals/minerals.

Goldlion973
06-25-2013, 11:24 AM
I used to use a gas camping stove with cans but the time they last for became a bit annoying, good for distillations indoors but not otherwise... recently bought an LPG gas tank and have purchased a Meker burner from the states. Through the gas camp useage and its annoyingability I had to find better ways of getting a higher temperature... pressure cookers are brilliant at this, found through many lessons that its best to avoid anything with plastic in it as it won't last, the best pressure cookers are the all american ones, tough to come by elsewhere, various sizes too so they can be used indoors for smaller works.

http://www.crscientific.com/catalog.html

^^ Cheap Nickel crucibles and Meker burners! ^^^

http://www.allamericancanner.com/allamericanpressurecanner.htm

^^ THE pressure cooker, trust me, I did my research... nothing beats these babies. Expensive to get shipped over here in the UK.

http://www.safefill.co.uk/

^^ Brutane etc is on the way out now LPG is becoming popular, can fill these up at your local gas station. Haven't tried it yet, just bought one yesterday but it promises to be good.

http://www.technicalsupermarket.com/component/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,4/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,1727/category_id,396/manufacturer_id,0/vmcchk,1/

^^ The R9 Kiln from these guys is good, much like those used for metal smelting on ebay but cheaper and just as effective.

Ciborium
12-27-2013, 01:15 AM
If I was going to get a camp stove, I thought this one looked neat:

Portable Micro Lab Burner
http://www.hometrainingtools.com/images/118/CE-BURNLAB.jpg

"It holds 40 grams of butane which burns for 1-2 hours. The output of this burner is about 2000 BTU/hour and it boils a 250ml beaker full of water in about two minutes. It generates a flame temperature of up to 2000F."

Hi Serpent, did you end up buying this burner? Or which direction did your heating research take you? Thanks!

Krisztian
12-27-2013, 01:30 AM
I've used BroilKing PCR-1S Professional Cast Iron and continually amazed at durability and power output. One can pick it up on sale for less than $100.

JDP
12-27-2013, 01:56 PM
Gas camp stove burners are only good for distillation operations using glassware, they get hot enough that you can even distill butter of antimony, but not for higher temperature operations in crucibles. You won't get to temperatures like 800 C with them.

Ciborium
12-29-2013, 05:16 PM
I must confess to being confused - the lab butane burner above is specced to 1000C. Is this just a very best possibility that won't work in real life?

If that's the case, then I'm now considering the Bernzomatic TS8000 MAP fuel torch - but that might be too hot for a Coors crucible.

The quest for "hot enough", but less expensive than a kiln continues... :-)

JDP
12-29-2013, 05:57 PM
I must confess to being confused - the lab butane burner above is specced to 1000C. Is this just a very best possibility that won't work in real life?

If that's the case, then I'm now considering the Bernzomatic TS8000 MAP fuel torch - but that might be too hot for a Coors crucible.

The quest for "hot enough", but less expensive than a kiln continues... :-)

The problem is that when you heat crucibles with such burners you are not going to be able to contain the heat they produce long enough to raise the temperature to those higher degrees. You will be heating it in the open air, where the heat will simply dissipate too fast for the temperature to be raised to such higher degrees. You can use a propane torch to actually build a small crucible furnace, though. I have built several of them, using these older BernzOmatic propane torches:

http://www.tool-rank.com/hand-tools/Other/Bernzomatic-Hose-Torch-19199-JTH7-20090202376/

Which I modify so that they can be connected to bigger propane bottles/tanks. I can achieve temperatures as high as about 1300 C (by injecting air from an air blower or compressor into the combustion chamber.) I can melt silver, gold, copper, etc. with them. Right now, as I am writing this post, I have an alumina crucible with a "gradatory glass" being melted with silver for a test (according to the anonymous author of the process, supposedly a small part of the silver will be "matured" into gold by the prolonged action of the molten special glass) inside one of these improvised furnaces, an experiment which will last several hours in this blazing heat. But that's because I actually build a refractory container where the heat generated by the gas torch cannot readily escape and dissipate into the surrounding air, so the temperatures inside the combustion chamber, where the crucible and the materials are placed, can get quite high. The only way you could ever achieve something similar without using refractory containment would be with oxygen torches. Those can get hot enough to even melt platinum in the open air, but you have to blast the metal directly with the oxy-flame, otherwise the heat dissipation would quickly cool the platinum below its melting point.

Hellin Hermetist
12-29-2013, 06:39 PM
Hi JDP,

Are you referring to the process which has been described in one of the Bacstrom's manuscripts?

JDP
12-29-2013, 07:19 PM
Hi JDP,

Are you referring to the process which has been described in one of the Bacstrom's manuscripts?

No, I got this one from one of Kellner's books, where he collected many of these processes from various sources. I had several of these "gradatory glass" processes translated into English (they are all ultimately based on Becher's "Minera Arenaria" process, the grandaddy of all such processes, so the anonymous chymists who wrote them must have been some of his followers.) I am putting some of them to the test. Since these glasses tend to be strongly corrosive on normal crucible walls (they greedily eat up the silica in most normal clays), I am using alumina crucibles in these preliminary tests, to avoid accidents. Alumina is very resistant to almost everything. I have kept some of these glasses strongly melted for as much as 8 continuous hours, without any appreciable sign of corrosion on the alumina walls, so they are perfect for this purpose. If I actually find any of these processes worth putting into action on a larger scale, then I can worry about finding a cheaper crucible material that will withstand the corrosive action of these glasses.

Ciborium
12-30-2013, 12:22 AM
Thanks JDP! :-) I'll continue to slog along as best as I can for now. Next windfall will fund a proper kiln or furnace... Your work with the gradatory glass is fascinating!