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Opus Magnum
09-24-2009, 06:10 PM
Hello, everybody. ;)
Here's a question for you:
Do You believe that Philosopher's Stone could be created and it can give immortality?

Zephyr
09-24-2009, 08:25 PM
Hello, everybody. ;)
Here's a question for you:
Do You believe that Philosopher's Stone could be created and it can give immortality?

Why do you ask? Do you think this is possible?
*Z*

Awani
09-24-2009, 11:52 PM
I think it is possible to prolong life, even as far as becoming 150-250 years... after that any physical immortality is, I am afraid, probably impossible.

A spiritual immortality is another matter... but I don't think that is what you are asking about.

Regardless in order to live, one must first die like Jesus on the cross... ;)

:cool:

Opus Magnum
09-25-2009, 08:34 PM
Why do you ask? Do you think this is possible?
*Z*

Just interested at your opinions. :) I think it's possible.

Zephyr
09-25-2009, 10:13 PM
Hmmm I kind-of suspect that there is an "elixir" of imortality, likely secreted by the brain itself, which can enormously prolong physical life. As for the stone, I don't know, but I see nothing inherently flawed with the idea that through the right combination of processes that lead could be transformed into gold physically.
-Z-

Poimandres
09-26-2009, 12:13 AM
I just don't see physical immortality as a worthwhile pursuit. I agree with some of you that it may be possible to prolong life, but unless you have some greater roll to fulfill on the material plane doing so would only imply that you have surrendered your soul to the tellurian body-ego.

Speaking in terms of spiritual alchemy, this would be an inversion of the Great Work. Why remain in the fallen saturnian/lead state of the physical body when you have the opportunity to obtain true immortality as a god-like spiritual being?

You may argue that the soul is immortal anyway, which is true. But the "I" that which makes you a conscious individual is not. Alchemy interpreted as a spiritual discipline teaches you how to extract that individuality/consciousness from the animal body and fuse it to the soul/eternal body so that even after death you can proclaim "I am". In this sense the Philosopher's Stone is the vessel which allows you to traverse the spiritual universe as cognizant spiritual being , it is identical to the Merkavah chariot of the Kabbalists...it is the the etheric body for your sense of Self. Without it your soul and conscious Self will be absorbed into the collective All and will continue to be recycled in the life-death patterns of the material universe.

If you ever look at Buddhist art you will be familiar with a common motif of the worldly karma circle in which all life and death happens surrounded by a few isolated figures...those figures are the initiated Buddhas that have obtained true immortality and will forever reign outside the life-death cycles of the material universe. I digress... regardless, I am curious to know why you seek physical immortality.

MarkostheGnostic
09-26-2009, 03:27 AM
Physical immortality would prove to be everywhere as much Hell as retaining 100 years of life memories in an eternal metaphysical place. Despite the rromantic mythos of sexy vampires, who, it should not be forgotten, are loathsome blood-parasites of some astral composition (according to the literature), physical immortality would result in spiritual stagnation and an even worse regression.

Poimandres is correct on this. It is fear of dissolution and blind lust-greed for existence that keeps one on the Wheel of Life, going nowhere but round-and-round - a meta-Hell which includes lesser Hells, but Hells nevertheless. I am into health and longevity, but at the same time, I practice ego-death in every moment in which I realize that I am acting in an addictive way (lust, hunger, thirst for intoxicants, experience, self-aggrandizement, etc.). I am not a timid monk, and I am not a worldling. I live The Middle Way - The Razor's Edge. We all partake of temporality and eternality (I happen, synchronistically, to be listening to the Grateful Dead song 'Eternity')! If you yearn for physical immortality, then you are way out of balance and that fantasy is not too far from delusion and hence psychosis. So, come back towards center. Let your unfounded desires die. Through despair, you'll get closer to Reality.

solomon levi
09-26-2009, 09:05 AM
On the other hand, you could live forever and still not exhaust the mystery
that life is. It doesn't have to be an ego thing.

Ideally, one would want an organic body while also making use of inorganic
bodies which have much longer life spans.

I, too, am of the opinion that the life of the physical body can be extended,
perhaps 1000 years, but not immortal in the absolute sense.

If the consciousness be made immortal, there is no need for the body to be so.

Opus Magnum
09-26-2009, 06:35 PM
I have a goal, which is almost impossible to achieve in my life, so that's why I'm studying Alchemy, that's why I'm so interested at Philosopher's Stone, that's why I want to gain physical immortality (or few hundreds years longer life). If I could done my aim, I would be happy to die.

Zephyr
09-26-2009, 08:42 PM
If you ever look at Buddhist art you will be familiar with a common motif of the worldly karma circle in which all life and death happens surrounded by a few isolated figures...those figures are the initiated Buddhas that have obtained true immortality and will forever reign outside the life-death cycles of the material universe. I digress... regardless, I am curious to know why you seek physical immortality.

It is most interesting that the Hermetic Corpus (Asclepius especially) contains teachings that are almost identical to a sort of hybrid between Buddhist and proto-Christian ideas, namely that the "punishment" for not conducting the work of ascent to the One is to be trapped forever in transmigration. I do suspect there was quite a bit of cross fertilization between Ancient India at the time of the Buddha, and Greece at the time of Plato... They seem to be addressing many of the same issues.

*Zephyr*

Zephyr
09-26-2009, 08:46 PM
It also sounds like Quantum Computers may make human consciousnesses immortal in a certain sense... A freaky thought really... a new Pharonic age, perhaps, akin to Zardos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5QaAMvmjB0)?
*Z*

solomon levi
09-30-2009, 05:42 PM
IMO, the alchemical fixation of the soul to the body, sulphur to salt, in humans
is not really to the physical body or making it immortal.
It's rather a fixation of consciousness - an ability to maintain awareness beyond
the expiration of the physical body; to maintain a cohesive self-identity as an
individual, but not necessarily as a personality.
This is the practice outlined in Castaneda's works as well, that there is an alternate
way of dying for warrior-sorcerers... that the Eagle will accept a surrogate, a
thorough recapitulation, in place of one's awareness.
To describe this in terms of physics, or metaphysics, I use the seven leveled system
of consciousness which corresponds to the seven bands of the electromagnetic spectrum:
hertzian, infrared, visible light, UV, x-ray, gamma, cosmic.
To my understanding, your average human being in social consciousness is only
existing in the lower three levels of consciousness. When one of these beings dies,
they see "the light" and are magnetically drawn towards it. They are witnessing the
level of visible light (the 7 colors together make white light), and that is as far as they
can go, as far as they've evolved their awareness. Castaneda calls this being eaten
by the Eagle. There's a quantum boundary existing beyond the light... that is, when
coming "down" from cosmic, when energy/awareness hits the level of visible light,
there is an additional layer of polarity, thus the "cross" that we must bear.

I'm running out of steam... I guess there's too much context to give to make this
comprehensible and i don't have the time to do it, and I'm not sure if there's any interest.
But maybe you get the idea I'm trying to convey.

To sum up, fixation of awareness in a human being who ingests the Philosophers'
Stone gives that one continued awareness from one life to the next, or beyond
the light... depending on where you would go.

Poimandres
10-01-2009, 11:34 PM
It is most interesting that the Hermetic Corpus (Asclepius especially) contains teachings that are almost identical to a sort of hybrid between Buddhist and proto-Christian ideas, namely that the "punishment" for not conducting the work of ascent to the One is to be trapped forever in transmigration. I do suspect there was quite a bit of cross fertilization between Ancient India at the time of the Buddha, and Greece at the time of Plato... They seem to be addressing many of the same issues.

*Zephyr*

Most definitely Zephyr!

Have you by any chance read any Rene Guenon's work? He is one of the torch bearers of traditionalism-which believes that all religions stem from one primordial source. Anyway, I ask because he extensively deals with the similarities between Vedic and Neo-Platonic/Pythagorean Philosophy. You may find some value in his work, particularly "Symbols of Sacred Science".


IMO, the alchemical fixation of the soul to the body, sulphur to salt, in humans
is not really to the physical body or making it immortal.
It's rather a fixation of consciousness - an ability to maintain awareness beyond
the expiration of the physical body; to maintain a cohesive self-identity as an
individual, but not necessarily as a personality.

I'm in agreement 100% here. Indeed, this not only describes the goal of spiritual alchemy but is precisely the doctrine held by all the Mystery schools of the ancient world. This process is also described metaphorically in Kabbalistic and Gnostic Philosophy through the act of "Bridal Chamber". The product of this operation is the solution of the body and the coagulation of the Spirit (from the fixation of the passive/lunar consciousness to the active/solar Soul) resulting in the “Body of Light”. Below I quote the Gnostic Gospel of Philip :


The bridal chamber and the image must enter through the image into the truth: this is the restoration. Not only must those who produce the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, do so, but have produced them for you. If one does not acquire them, the name ("Christian") will also be taken from him. But one receives the unction of the [...] of the power of the cross. This power the apostles called "the right and the left." For this person is no longer a Christian but a Christ....
Light and Darkness, life and death, right and left, are brothers of one another. They are inseparable. Because of this neither are the good good, nor evil evil, nor is life life, nor death death. For this reason each one will dissolve into its earliest origin. But those who are exalted above the world are indissoluble, eternal.

This goes hand in hand with the Gospel of John where Christ says, “before Abraham was, I am”; centuries later St. Augustine adds to John 8, “weigh the words, and get a knowledge of the Mystery.” The idea being that Christ transcends space and time and is not trapped in the material universe and bound by the cyclic nature of life-death, Christ simply is. The Gnostics saw in the Biblical Jesus the archetype for the initiate who fixes his consciousness to the soul and become a Christ, "indissoluble,eternal".

Below is another quote from my notes of the Latin alchemical text De Signature, which, I also believe alludes to this notion:


“Paradise is still in this world, but man is very far from it, so long as he fails to regenerate himself. And this is the Gold hidden in Saturn.” (De signature, 8, 47,48)

Opus Magnum
10-02-2009, 05:58 PM
I believe that physical immortality exists and I will work very hard to get it. Even if it takes all my short normal life, because I must to do it if I want to complete my aim, which is impossible to achieve in my life. I need at least few hundred years. There won't be a day when I'll say "Enough. I don't think that physical immortality exists" because after some years I won't gain immortality. I won't stop the searching all my life. There are only two ways:
1. One day I will gain immortality.
2. One day I will dead because I wouldn't have achieved it.

Sorry for my poor English. :(

Zephyr
10-03-2009, 03:06 PM
The Taoist alchemists seem to strive after immortality... I believe it goes hand in hand with breatharianism, and apparently there are accounts where an old man sheds his skin like a snake and becomes young again. The technique that seems to support this path the most is "seed retention": having lots of sex but not ejaculating, and circulating the energy through the body... There seems to be "single-lifetime immortality" and "multiple lifetime immortality", which may be uncontrolled, like with the Samsara or it might be controlled, with retained memory like with the Bodhistattvas and Tzaddikim. I think the Rosicrucian hero known as the Compte de St Germain was reputed to be operating over a three or four hundred year span, showing up with no visible sign of aging many years after he was last seen and so on...

Like V for vendetta maybe?

*Z*

It's probably safe to assume that a more metaphorical interpretation is the soundest. But hey! Weirdness happens...

Smoke
03-11-2010, 05:11 PM
If we discard certain organizations like monarchies, governments and corporations, we can say that the main attractive (utilitarianly speaking) of Alchemy is the possibility of the prolongation of life (immortality).
It seems that human beings in general, we felt that our life time is too short. And is highly probable that we are right: Our time of biological life has been artificially shortened or due to chance causes throughout the time.
Solomon levi introduced the subject of telomerases, and the readings indicate that researchers detected that the genes responsible for the telomer (anti-aging) are switched off. This should indicate to us perhaps that our desire of “immortality”, is the single expression of the yearning to recover something that we lost, or was snatched from us in some point throughout the history of human kind.
There is an interesting exposition of Castaneda about a predator arrived at our world some thousands of years ago (in Spanish: “EL Volador” - The Flyer” -). He states that this predator feds on the human conscience, provoking tiredness, and making us die before time. And this being is the origin of our religions.
Besides, is peculiar that texts as the Bible and others talk about human beings that were able to live hundreds on years in the antiquity, but the Gods arrived and somehow that was finished (no more Methuselahs).
It is a little chilling, but perhaps we should value the possibility that our “Gods” are in fact the main predators of humanity.
I remember the title of a book written by ex- Jesuit priest Salvador Freixedo. “Defendamonos de los Dioses” (Defend ourselves from the Gods).

On the other hand, the concept of “immortality”, is relative. Concepts like that, cannot be conceived rationally (examples: “eternity”, “infinite”, etc.). So it is possible that when wishing immortality we are wishing in fact the standard time of biological life for which is designed our organism. dev indicate to that possibility (completely in agreement).
Another aspect that is worth to value is that immortality seems to be a “desire”, and our desires are (generally) different from our necessities. In addition, sometimes, our desires are directly opposite to our real necessities.
If we suppose that the Great Work is able to take us to a superior level of spiritual evolution, it is agreable to also suppose that our artificial desires (imposed culturally: Basically hedonism), should disappear too.

Also I believe that we should delineate similar but different concepts, like transcendence versus immortality.
And here we enter in muddy land: It is said that our soul (for example), is immortal per se. But for the Alchemist that is not sufficient. He looks for another form of immortality that includes the physical body necessarily. If not; his search should be more religious or mystical than Alchemical.

It is supposed (Theosophy) that in the case of some avatars, the physical body “is absorbed” when the spirit has finished his labor here, so there is no corpse.
In Christianity it is assumed that there is no corpse of Christ (except his prepuce circumcised -ha ha-), his physical body leaves the world along with his spirit (whatever it means). Also it is supposed that the famous Don Juan in Castaneda's, leaves this world turning its physical body into energy (there is no corpse either).
In these cases the subyacent idea is that the physical body and the spirit are unified in a single energetic unit (dissolving duality). The only dismissable thing is the self, in terms of the social personality. And at the same time it is assumed that the self, is merely a set of ideas that we have about ourselves and they define us mentally only.
The search of the Alchemist seems to be similar to these cases (unlike the mystic or the religious), the body is transformed by the Great Opus into a type of energy able to be united indissolubly to spirit.

What you think?
Just some reflections on immortality and life span.

Best wishes

Hyrage
04-11-2010, 02:48 AM
For many, immortality is not physical, but it would be about the ability to keep his memory active forever. If the body dies, the person reincarnates into another body and still remember everything she ever did. However, that doesn't prevent the person from being able to be physically immortal, but immortal doesn't mean invicible so.. any immortal maybe one day coul die physically.

Avatar
08-31-2012, 01:31 PM
You are what you eat. Literally.
Motabolism is fire. This fire is called oxidation.
You it the dust. So you are dust.
You eat combustibles and so you are.

If the elixer of the philosophers is incombustible,and homogeneous with the body in the sense that the body will assimilate it,and it becomes the building blocks of the body. Then they will either never suffer catabolism,or it will take exceedingly long for them to be catabolized.
as well they may actually suffer catabolism. But in doing so may release a.great amount of energy!

Man dies for in catabolism and anabolism their is energy loss.
It takes energy to break things down,and in breaking things down energy is gained,but little by little,their is more and more loss. The body just can't keep up with the demands of constant regeneration. The more permanent path may by internal transformation via the waters of the sexual system and the alkaline fire brought about via the breath. When truly done,you will see the red man in the mirror. And will know how it feels to be born of ruach,water,and fire. Oh the joy of feeling young again.

I am certain of the water. I am certain of the ruach and the fire. But I am not certain if it is the alkaline fire of breath that brings about this whole event.

The "possibly"more permanent path. Is the internal transformation described by the Taoist.Indie

Krisztian
08-31-2012, 06:58 PM
I'm not sure whether I posted this before, but there was a study done at University of California where people who regularly meditated over a 3-months period had a more active telomerase, an enzyme that helps preserve telomeres. I find the impact of meditation very relevant to this subject matter. Overtime, I mean 15 to 20 years, maybe earlier, you're able to calm down the animal-driven physical vessel (with all it's programmings), and find a state of cellular, emotional, mental calmness that's very difficult to replace.

This state is powered by deep abdominal breathing, I don't mean for few minutes during exercise but switching from breathing from the chest area to lower points, something like the way a newborn infant does.

I don't believe one can achieve making of the Philosopher's Stone unless that person has very rare (among humanity) something we call 'strict dedication'. That's done daily.

Avatar
09-01-2012, 03:26 PM
A man had all the materials to build a house. He knew what a house was. But had never built one. It took him 2 years to build the house. Working everyday.

A man had the same opportunity as the Guy above. He knew how to build a house. It took him 3 month with minimul effort.

"Right" knowledge. Gives success.
Mastery is best defined by the word easy.
all that is easy has been mastered, all that is mastered becomes easy.

Meditation,or spiritual practise that is efficient dosnt take years to see mass results.

The better ones knowledge,the quicker one can do something. Common logic.

Krisztian
09-01-2012, 10:57 PM
Meditation,or spiritual practise that is efficient dosnt take years to see mass results.

I'm not sure whether I fully understand what you're saying, I do like your analogy; but if you believe that the meditation that I described is easy then we have two different perspectives.

The physical body, the human vessel, is programmed not just genetically but by the artificial rhythm of modern life. If you had a relatively loving upbringing, recall soul memory, learned various yogic practices, so forth, then maybe that time is shorter in one lifetime. But if you're self-aware, more so than the common populace, you'll easily agree with me that to reach a very advanced state where your emotions are subdued and your mind is sharp needing no addictions, that takes many lifestimes!

House building is physical, only. I'm talking about something where you already inherited a faulty physical body at birth. And usually painful family circumstances. Which defaults a person 'to fight to overcome that deficiency'!

That's long gone by the time a person makes, able to make, the Philosopher's Stone or, become it in his vessel. That's all my point is.

glenerson
09-04-2012, 12:50 PM
if you leave traces of your consciousness to the physical world, then other consciousness will pick it up and you will be made immortal for that sake.

Avatar
09-09-2012, 03:48 PM
If you are born with a faulty body? How so?
I was simply saying that the more you know,the easyer something is,the faster you can make it happen.

My practise is different. You said most people live in the lower 3.
My practice unites the lower with the upper. Unites subconscious with consciousness.
Body mind and spirit unite. Salt sulphure and mercury become one. Their is no death becomes corruption no longer enters the body.

Krisztian
09-09-2012, 09:40 PM
If you are born with a faulty body? How so?

Among older alchemists it is believed that the 9 months duration of pregnancy [digestion] provides insufficient timeframe for the full development of the humanoid. It's not quite the full solar cycle.

Even if the temperature of 37 Celsius (98.6 Fahrenheit) of the mother's body [incubator] is a perfect habitat.

Avatar
09-10-2012, 01:54 AM
No man is born mature.
We are born into corruption.
the oxidative process of the metabolism assures we will burn in a fire we cannot see.

As you describe a faulty body. That is no problem.
Though I speak of immortality through transmuting the body using its on spirit and oil within.

As its been said. Any animal with the 9 openings of the body can become immortal.

Krisztian
09-10-2012, 02:44 AM
As you describe a faulty body. That is no problem.
Though I speak of immortality through transmuting the body using its on spirit and oil within.

As its been said. Any animal with the 9 openings of the body can become immortal.

Yes.

Avatar
09-10-2012, 04:25 AM
The ruach is the spirit. The spirit lays in the breath. But is not air.
it is an animated breath.
The condensation of this spirit is sexual fluid.
If the animated breath is had, and sexual fluid is created in the midst. It tinges sexual fluid with itself. Embodying it. This is literal speak. Not analogy.and is observable.
The hardest part. Is making the water of the kidneys press upwards.
The whole thing is a condition. Just as man does nothing in alchemy. He simply create a condition,and nature does what she is already capable of doing.

Though I have heard of other forms of immortality. This is the best and most whole way "personal opinion" but more realistically,this is something I've had direct experiance of. Many a times. But always on accedent. I've spend almost 7 years manipulating my own physiology trying to find the nich.

Avatar
09-10-2012, 04:26 AM
Simply sharing.

thoth
09-10-2012, 10:31 PM
Among older alchemists it is believed that the 9 months duration of pregnancy [digestion] provides insufficient timeframe for the full development of the humanoid. It's not quite the full solar cycle.

itat.

Hi Krisztian, You probably have heard of it but George Carey wrote a book "zodiac and the salts of salvation", basically each of the planets is ruled by a salt, and ideally gestation should be 12 months , so we are all deficient in 3 particular salts, depending of which of the 3 signs of the zodiac you did not pass through during gestation, so you then go and make a tincture of those salts to to be complete. I have the book, only dipped into it, so don't have a firm opinion on it yet.

Krisztian
09-11-2012, 12:17 AM
Hi Krisztian, You probably have heard of it but George Carey wrote a book "zodiac and the salts of salvation", basically each of the planets is ruled by a salt, and ideally gestation should be 12 months , so we are all deficient in 3 particular salts, depending of which of the 3 signs of the zodiac you did not pass through during gestation, so you then go and make a tincture of those salts to to be complete. I have the book, only dipped into it, so don't have a firm opinion on it yet.

Thanks thoth, I didn't have Carey's but I read it in another older manuscript (name escapes me right now). I did make it as suggested. I also noticed that I was very robust, for lack of a better term, when I took it for the three months. That was during that year-period when almost all colleagues at work were battling with that nasty winter flu, sufficient to say I didn't get it.

Awani
04-19-2015, 02:50 AM
“Immortality is the condition of a dead man who doesn’t believe he is dead.”
― H.L. Mencken

So as to not clutter another thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4373-What-is-your-alchemical-agenda) I'll post my two cents here.

Now everyone can do as they please, and if immortality is the name of the game go right ahead... but for me immortality in this life, this realm, is kind of like saying I want to keep my current computer forever... it doesn't matter if they come out with new models, 3D screens etc... I want my 2015 model forever.

If we don't upgrade every two years our computer is basically obsolete. Same with existence. If we don't upgrade every 100 years we are wasting time... wasting the true eternity... the true immortality.

In my humble opinion.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/infinity_nebula_by_blph-d37yigj_zps3kuyqjlo.jpg

:cool:

True Initiate
04-19-2015, 03:07 AM
I have a feeling that i didn't even scratch the surface of this terrestrial life. The old teachings state that the real life is of spiritual nature but i have still longings for this material realm. I am not finished here and i cann't finish it in one life span, i need 3 or 4 at least. That's how i really feel...

Awani
04-19-2015, 10:53 AM
That is probably why you are going to be re-born again and again. ;)

:cool:

Ghislain
04-20-2015, 02:11 AM
Saṃsāra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra)

Ghislain

Michael Sternbach
04-20-2015, 04:46 PM
I, for one, like to believe in the possibility of some kind of super-Spagyric that has the power to cure all illnesses and stop or perhaps even reverse ageing.

My take on this relates to Tom Bearden's concepts of the negative or reversed time flow that can occur in both physical and biological systems.

Aaron
05-13-2015, 06:42 PM
I have a goal, which is almost impossible to achieve in my life, so that's why I'm studying Alchemy, that's why I'm so interested at Philosopher's Stone, that's why I want to gain physical immortality (or few hundreds years longer life). If I could done my aim, I would be happy to die.



I have a feeling that i didn't even scratch the surface of this terrestrial life. The old teachings state that the real life is of spiritual nature but i have still longings for this material realm. I am not finished here and i cann't finish it in one life span, i need 3 or 4 at least. That's how i really feel...


I believe the fear of not having enough time to reach our goals, is what actually keeps us from reaching our goals. We waste our time thinking about if it is possible or not (living in the past or the future), while we should just act und care about the present.

Time is only relevant for our ego. It's a source of fear, something that is part of this world. Everything in this world is a distraction from reaching the higher planes... so is time. Time isn't a hinderance/barrier for your spirits/souls/whatever. If you have a goal which you believe is necessary for you to reach, don't waste your time by trying to get more time. That's not going to work. That's your ego telling you a lie.

In the beginning every great work seems impossible. Still, there were people who built empires in one lifetime.

I believe it is like meditating. If you constantly think about WHEN you'll reach the state of "trance" (that's what I call it myself, I am not sure if it is the actualy term for what I mean) you'll never reach it. Just let go of every concern/though and you'll be there before you even know what happened.


To the general Question of this Thread: Is it possible to get immortal?

I think the science of our time is pretty close to extending the life of our bodies. Just replacing old organs with new one isn't so far in the future anymore.

If it is possible through spiritual achievement, I don't know. But I see it the same way as a few others in this thread. I don't think it is the goal behind the spiritual path.

Eshai
05-14-2015, 04:19 PM
If we were able to achieve immortality, imagine how much power a single individual could potentially achieve. It seems like we live long enough to just become really good at something, then we fall apart and can no longer do it. It's almost like a cruel joke. But maybe we deserve it, because what might we become with that kind of power?

Awani
05-17-2015, 02:39 PM
It is better to concentrate on living a good enjoyable life rather than wasting all of life by trying to extend it. Death should be embraced not feared. Spending time trying to avoid death is like having sex and trying to avoid an orgasm.

:cool:

Michael Sternbach
05-17-2015, 09:10 PM
It is better to concentrate on living a good enjoyable life rather than wasting all of life by trying to extend it. Death should be embraced not feared. Spending time trying to avoid death is like having sex and trying to avoid an orgasm.

:cool:

Some truth in what you said, since the quest for immortality should not keep us from living to the full in the here and now. However, in my view, pursuing the Alchemy that may lead to relative immortality or longevity is a worthwhile study for a number of reasons, whether it is of a Western or an Eastern brand, and whether we actually attain the highest goal or not.

Michael Sternbach
05-17-2015, 09:13 PM
Oh, and there is nothing wrong with extending sex before the orgasm (for a male anyway). Chinese internal Alchemists avoid ejaculation altogether, and believe that this contributes to longevity. ;)

Awani
05-17-2015, 09:17 PM
Longevity, well nothing wrong with that but anything over 150 years should be considered greedy and counter-productive. 100 years is a good round number.

:cool:

Awani
05-17-2015, 09:19 PM
Chinese internal Alchemists avoid ejaculation altogether, and believe that this contributes to longevity. ;)

Prolonged sexual acts is good for health yes, but avoiding orgasm completly I don't think is healthy.

:cool:

Michael Sternbach
05-17-2015, 09:42 PM
Longevity, well nothing wrong with that but anything over 150 years should be considered greedy and counter-productive. 100 years is a good round number.

:cool:

Add a zero, and you're talking business. ;)


Prolonged sexual acts is good for health yes, but avoiding orgasm completly I don't think is healthy.

:cool:

Chinese alchemists avoid ejaculation, not the orgasm per say. Anyway, I mention this for information purposes only.

Andro
05-17-2015, 09:47 PM
Orgasm and ejaculation are not necessarily interchangeable terms. One can have the former without the latter.

Edit: Oops, you just posted that :)

One can also have many micro-deaths in one lifetime without actually dying physically ("ejaculating" the body :)).

And we can also have as many incarnations as we like, if accomplishments/experiences in physical form are of the essence.

Michael Sternbach
05-17-2015, 10:22 PM
It might be interesting to compile a list of Alchemists that are said to have actually achieved physical immortality (or at least a vastly extended lifespan), such as:

Artephius
Flamel
Count St. Germain
Fulcanelli

I have read of a few more whose names I don't remember right now. I will be happy to edit and extend this list also by the suggestions of you people.

Awani
05-17-2015, 11:26 PM
Chinese alchemists avoid ejaculation, not the orgasm per say. Anyway, I mention this for information purposes only.

Ok then, well I think "release" is good. Just look at the Vatican, just leads to child fucking if you don't... ;)


Add a zero, and you're talking business. ;)

Well... then you are kind of talking immortality (which is what this thread is about), and also what I think alchemists have misunderstood. If you chase that dragon... you might as well be chasing the dragon...

Going after that kind of longevity is, IMO, foolish and time wasting... but I won't say what others should do... just what I think. Making gold from lead, or living forever, are two major aspects of alchemy - at least what the common man thinks alchemy is about. But both these endeavors are proof that Homo Sapiens are fools. Not that it cannot be achieved, not fools because of this... but because, IMHO, it will not give that which is most important (to me at least): love, peace and wisdom.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/icarusGlow_zpsul8wzpxv.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarus)

:cool:

Andro
05-18-2015, 06:43 AM
For me, it's like choosing to stay in 3rd grade for 1000 years, instead of graduating and advancing to 4th grade :)

Either evolve from grade to grade, or transcend the grade scale altogether - neither of which can be accomplished by such linear time longevity.

I would say that this longevity desire may also stem from the fear (or at least from the misunderstanding) of physical 'death'.
_______
I.M.S.U.

Michael Sternbach
05-18-2015, 11:39 AM
For me, it's like choosing to stay in 3rd grade for 1000 years, instead of graduating and advancing to 4th grade :)

Either evolve from grade to grade, or transcend the grade scale altogether - neither of which can be accomplished by such linear time longevity.

I have heard the "Earth equals a school grade" argument before, from a fairly well-known guy called Dethlefsen: The third grade never gets smarter, as it's just a transitional station in the soul's evolutionary journey.:p

But does this analogy really hold true? Aren't in fact representatives of quite different "grades" of spiritual evolution present all at once in that badly behaved school class called humanity? Moreover, doesn't over generations the "class" evolve as a whole? The Alchemists and Rosicrucians of yore certainly believed that:

That humanity is meant to evolve toward a state of perfection, or full actualization of its potential, or Utopia - and with it the whole Universe! (Symbolically, the lead into gold thingie. ;))

Actually, according to some well-informed sources (such as Michael Ende, the author of The Neverending Story), Earth/the physical dimension seems to be a vital switching point in the evolution of the whole megaverse, metaverse, whatever -verse.

Now it could be that a few "immortals" - with all their knowledge, experience, abilities and not least subtle "radiation" - at any given time are desired by Gaia.


I would say that this longevity desire may also stem from the fear (or at least from the misunderstanding) of physical 'death'.
_______
I.M.S.U.

Well, it's true that it's not always the most daring creatures who survive the longest.

However, personally, I would say that various Out-of-Body experiences in lucid dreams convinced me of my ability to exist more than joyfully on non-physical planes, that minimizes the fear factor.

Nevertheless, I truly appreciate having my physical body available most of the time, and I think it's a good idea to make it a carrier of spiritual energy and express it in my physical environment, thus contributing to the latter's healing and evolution. I get a feeling that this attitude automatically contributes to longevity. So you see, true "immortalization" goes hand in hand with some kind of spiritual purification and progress.

Why is it said in various spiritual traditions that human beings in time immemorial lived to an age of 1000 years and more?

Ghislain
05-18-2015, 02:41 PM
In the book Cloud Atlas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Atlas_(novel)) by David Mitchell, I believe that Mitchell tries to show, that no matter the time or evolution, nothing really changes.

If this is the case then perpetuating this life is like a self imposed sentence to the mundane.

There may be more around the next corner.

Ghislain

Awani
05-19-2015, 03:30 PM
Why is it said in various spiritual traditions that human beings in time immemorial lived to an age of 1000 years and more?

Because they are stories. Not fact. Myth. Allegory. Sometimes a person of ancient history might be a symbol of a whole people. So the person did not live 1000 years but the 'tribe'.

We are immortal. But why drive the same car (body) through eternity when new models (experiences) can be chosen?

Don't listen to me. I ain't no authority but I do feel that one does a great diserves to try and cheat death. It is like stabbing oneself in the back. It is counter-productive.

Hibernation/freezing is different. That is not prolonging the self, it only 'teleports' the self to the future a la Futurama.

:cool:

Awani
05-19-2015, 03:48 PM
"I am not at all interested in immortality, only in the taste of tea." - from Lu Tong

:cool:

ATD
08-03-2015, 06:42 PM
i think it's possible if you can decipher the manuscripts that they reffer to the making of philosopher's stone but the problem is only a few people know how to decipher 500 year old manuscripts...

Michael Sternbach
12-18-2015, 06:46 PM
I for one actually believe that the body can be rejuvenated - in principle indefinitely. What for? Well, maybe you are here to accomplish something for which an ordinary life-time is just not enough. Consider what great things you could achieve if you had hundreds of years of life in vitality and health available to you! What knowledge, wisdom and skills you could acquire!

Alchemist who are said to have achieved rejuvenation and/or longevity to one degree or another, in a few cases even immortality, include Arnaldus de Villa Nova, Arthephius, Nicolas Flamel, the Count of St-Germain,Frater Albertus, Maitre Phillipe, Franz Bardon, Fulcanelli and Perry Rhodan. Oh, sorry, the last one is not an alchemist. Finding the elixir of life was the primary focus in Chinese and, I believe, Indian Alchemy.

There may be a form of longevity that does not depend on continuing maintenance by universal forces but on depleting the energy of other living beings. This seems more common than one would think; statistical research showed that being married with a younger partner tends to extend the life expectancy of the older and decrease the life expectancy of the younger.

An ongoing replacement of body parts and organs by cybernetic substitutes would, taken to the extreme, also result in a rather dubious kind of immortality.

Regarding the main topic of the OP, integration of one's "shadow" is a necessity on any path to wholeness whatsoever, and not only since my fellow Swiss C.G. Jung talked about it. However, you want to ingest the darkness in digestible doses, and avoid being swayed by it.

For "the dark side" from a perspective that is close to Hermeticism, you could look into Goetic Magic and the Qliphoth - a classic regarding the latter is Kenneth Grant: Nightside of Eden.

JinRaTensei
12-18-2015, 07:14 PM
thank you all very much ,I have come to the happy point right now of having more information than time...which means abundance XD.

As for bodily Immortality I also believe it to be true for the exact same reason,some forms of experience canīt be achieved with the normal lifespan humans are set to have.I also believe that in accordance with hermetic laws time is relative and every person has and is of him/herself an own dimension.I believe that the more one grows spiritually and the more one purifies the body and mind the more time the spiritus mundi/the all will provide for the scholar.Constant reincarnation without memory/essence from past lives would mean one would never reach over a certain point since one had to start at the basics every time again.

Just like the time today and the internet is a such "timedimension" of itself. The knowledge one could achieve in ancient times was very limited and therefor people relied mostly on time and selfstudy.today an average alchemist can read in one month more books than an ancient alchemist in his entire life.The internet compresses this time for us and gives us the equivalent of living 200-500 years in ancient time.The universal conciosness was ready for greater work and therefor the all provided the internet.Now like in every alchemical process the backhand means allthogh we learn/mature and process mentally much mch more than before we have much mch less time and desire to advance spiritually and the soul compared to ancient times,a cosmic give and take.

If you believe that ca. 85 years are not enogh for what you want to learn/and achieve than either you will become more time(immortality) or more densining of information/experience in the time you have ( technology like internet,conciousness leaps like the renaissance)


As in rituals I once came across an account of an old african immortality ritual which is still practiced today.The shaman in this account stated that killing and torturing humans to gain their lifeforce was never accepted as general practice because it was contrary to life.
The shamans of the love path wold choose a healthy and very young virgin female child wold cleans and wash her body and than let her sleep for 3 days and 3 nights in the same bed nacked with the person who wants to receive the lifeforce.During these 3 days and nights it is of tmost importance that the receiver of lifeforce neither touch the girl in any way nor have any sexual thoughts towards her.Further on the receiver is to do everything he can to make the girl feel comftable.
As the shaman explain during this time the vibration of the child and the receiver will start to resonate and seek a harmony in between the two different morphic fields of child and receiver, thus the receiver will receive lifeforce/vitality and healing and the child will receive depletion/sleepiness/general lack of energy.Over time if this ritual is done annually the lifeforce and juvenile vibration pattern will change/heal the body of the receiver completly.The child is not hurt and after 1-2 days of rest the energy of the child is back to normal.Naturally these childs will receive some kind of gift and honor in their tribe for sustaining the life of the elders of the tribe.

Peter Barnes
12-26-2015, 12:13 AM
I believe that if you believe in Immortality and it makes you feel happy searching for it then go for it:)

I also believe in Immortality or a kind of transcendence of the world. All we know is life and being alive and so is it not normal to want to keep this state, w hen we cross the road we always look in order not to die, we instinctively avoid death at all costs, so it is natural to want to and strive to avoid death, there would be no progress in medicine otherwise - we would go to our doctors with diabetesfor example and the doc would say 'you are going to die anyway so why should I try to extend your life?', even if our lives could be extended by 5yrs many people would go for it, if the choice was 1000yrs many would go for it, it is natural to want to live, and it's never enough, imagine reaching a hundred years and your doc had a medicine that would extend your life by another 100yrs, many would say give me the shot.

"We who are born into this world let the days of our life slip away, death looming ever nearer as the day of our birth recedes further into the past. Yet all we crave for is wealth and honour, and we have no idea how to nourish the stream of life itself. As soon as our allotted span is exhausted and our breath fails, we die. Then, when we are merely dust and ashes, how shall we benefit by the rank of prince or duke, or by stores of gold piled mountain high? Only by translation as an Immortal can one hope to avoid dissolution."
chu ju tzu

For me the whole point IS to arrive at the elixir of life, but I wonder if the delivery system is th wrong one, i.e. ingestion of an elixir. For every disease there is a food, a herb, medicine etc, the emphasis is eat this, drink this, take this and you can be healed, cured etc, I wonder if the origin sin that came via the mouth is the eath sentence.

If you look at the opposite - fasting or CR (calorific restriction) has been the only scientifically proven way to extend life in rodents, the ancient chinese knew this when they said Bi Gu -No grain, No grain, when grain was the staple they were saying don't eat any food or fast, eating only herbs and water to extend life.

And so I wonder whether the fountain of youth, the ambrosia, elixir of life can come from another source, i.e. prayer, sexual techniques, transdermal, sungazing (doubtful) etc, I mean without the need for the use of the digestive system. Infact in my opinion one would have to sooner or later quit eating or eat very minimal amounts in order to stop taxing digestive organs like the liver, pancreas, stomach etc, colon would probably shrink as would the stomach, you would have thought this is impossible and the digestive system would need a certain amount of calories to funtion and not have health problems.

I have read in the past of a lady who ate only potatoes for years and was seen by her doc and she was in perfect health, another breatharian woman who was examined and found to have her colon or intestines almost completely shrunk if memory serves me well. Another woman who ate only crisps (potato chips) for years and no ill effect.

The answer could be far from the ingestion method, it could be a range of methods, for example the ancient chinese taught circulation of Qi, hoding breath for long periods of time (a fasting of the breath), meditation or fasting of thought, silence or a fasting of the ears and stop speaking - not leaking energy.

But Immortality if one thinks logically seems impossible, how old are the mountains? Our earth? The sun? And yet they aren't Immortal, the lifespan of our earth is expected to be around 10 billion years and isn't Immortal and so to be truly Immortal you'd have to reach a deathless state or neglegent senescense for hundreds of years and in that time somehow discard the body and become a spirit with full consciousness without the need for physical death, maybe you could dissapear into some other dimension, I don't know.

Hey but think about this, if immortality was the norm - imagine what a death sentence would mean? or accidental death, you'd be paranoid about taking airplane flights, taking public transport et etc.

Ghislain
12-30-2015, 06:57 PM
The Age of Adeline (https://watch32hd.co/watch?v=The_Age_of_Adaline_2015#video=0ZNEIb8GoyW6 Z72b6Uds7cbyPjBdP9ZzZTUry13PgQs)

Ghislain

JinRaTensei
12-31-2015, 09:23 AM
did you like the movie or the symbolic or both? usually not into those kinda movies but maybe another case of hollywood/big tv showing us more than meets the eye at first glance?

Ghislain
12-31-2015, 01:40 PM
The movie was OK, I wouldn't rave about it, but what struck me more is how lonely it may be in immortality here on earth.

Ghislain

Awani
12-31-2015, 02:55 PM
I believe that if you believe in Immortality and it makes you feel happy searching for it then go for it:)

I agree but I am afraid if you do you are wasting your time.

Who wants to watch a movie that never ends?

The point is to die, not to stick around with attachment and desire for this world. Those who try and do that - I believe - will eventually in death (or in life) discover that they have wasted their time.

:cool:

JDP
12-31-2015, 03:29 PM
I agree but I am afraid if you do you are wasting your time.

Who wants to watch a movie that never ends?

The point is to die, not to stick around with attachment and desire for this world. Those who try and do that - I believe - will eventually in death (or in life) discover that they have wasted their time.

:cool:

You are failing to see the other side of the coin: what if it is those who keep longing for some sort of existence after physical death who once they die actually find out there is nothing at all, and that the life they so much disparaged was all there actually is. They would never realize anything, of course, since they would be dead and not conscious, but if they could they would have to admit that they have wasted their time and real life on an assumption that had no evidence whatsoever going for it and was wholly reliant on faith and beliefs.

Another notable thing: funny how those who keep disparaging this life and exalting a supposed existence after death never put their money where their mouths are and actually rush to kill themselves to speed up the process of making it to this other supposed existence.

Awani
12-31-2015, 03:38 PM
You are failing to see the other side of the coin: what if it is those who keep longing for some sort of existence after physical death who once they die actually find out there is nothing at all, and that the life they so much disparaged was all there actually is. They would never realize anything, of course, since they would be dead and not conscious, but if they could they would have to admit that they have wasted their time and real life on an assumption that had no evidence whatsoever going for it and was wholly reliant on faith and beliefs.

Another notable thing: funny how those who keep disparaging this life and exalting a supposed existence after death never put their money where their mouths are and actually rush to kill themselves to speed up the process of making it to this other supposed existence.

That argument is silly in my opinion. How can you enjoy death if you have not lived? Life has no beauty and value if you do not have death. It doesn't matter what happens when you die. Only the present matters.

Also some people have evidence, and some people have no evidence. That is why each being is responisble for their own choices. And as I said if people want to chase immortality go right ahead.

I do not disparage life. Quite the opposite. I love life. And I love death. Equally!


“Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error.

If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live,

when they die they will receive nothing.”

- Gospel of Philip

:cool:

JDP
12-31-2015, 04:24 PM
That argument is silly in my opinion. How can you enjoy death if you have not lived? Life has no beauty and value if you do not have death. It doesn't matter what happens when you die. Only the present matters.

Also some people have evidence, and some people have no evidence. That is why each being is responisble for their own choices. And as I said if people want to chase immortality go right ahead.

I do not disparage life. Quite the opposite. I love life. And I love death. Equally!



:cool:

How long do you need to enjoy life before wanting to die? 30 years? 50 years? 80 years? 100+ years? At what point should we come to the rather counter-intuitive conclusion that "the point is to die, not to stick around with attachment and desire for this world." Specially considering that there is no proof that there is "something" out there after death. If such proof existed, rest assured that practically no one on this Earth would have any problem with dying and would not try so hard to cling on to life for as long as possible. It is the uncertainty of what happens after that makes most people want to delay death, the longer the better.

I would bet 1 million bucks that the people who keep on being so complacent in the face of eminent death, and actually even seem to want to "welcome" it, would actually be among the first in line to take an "immortality drug" if it was really proven that one has been prepared and is being made available.

Awani
12-31-2015, 04:32 PM
I would bet 1 million bucks that the people who keep on being so complacent in the face of eminent death, and actually even seem to want to "welcome" it, would actually be among the first in line to take an "immortality drug" if it was really proven that one has been prepared and is being made available.

Then you are in debt to me now. ;)

:cool:

JinRaTensei
12-31-2015, 08:38 PM
The movie was OK, I wouldn't rave about it, but what struck me more is how lonely it may be in immortality here on earth.

Ghislain

true.And funny how perspective is everything in these matters I suppose. For instance at the age of 12 years I decided I would become an immortal in some way and never looked back.I started reading all esoteric and phylosophical text I could get my hands on.And allthough that decision was born in childish naivity I never had more determination in anything else I did in life.So my mind and personality changed over the years accordingly.Since I always thought I would be around for about 300-500 years minimum I never worried about time,school,work,love,friendships,trips,or anythinf material...to be precise I have nothing I cant go without or care to deeply for and thereby I find happiness in everything.In every good song or bad conversation in every happy moment and painful accident,it all is just training to immortality anyway.
And thereby paradoxly allthough I am the fartest away from anything immortal or enlightened I still live a life of a immortal and only death can proof the difference between me and an immortal right now ^^.So I think you dont have to be lonely!For instance I never saw it as loosing more and more loved ones with time but that there are more than 7 billion people,at least millions of them awesome in some way and I dont have enough time to meet them all.Even if I lived 2000 years I wouldnīt have enough time for being lonely or opportunity.

The mortal lives in the past the immortal in the future.When you believe there will always be a future for you than you start to let go of everything passing and in the end it all will be a good story told at a campfire and you yourself will become nothing more than another chapter in it

Awani
12-31-2015, 10:08 PM
The mortal lives in the past the immortal in the future.

We are already immortal IMO. We have to live in the present.

:cool:

JinRaTensei
01-01-2016, 01:08 AM
than living in the present for the future and I have the best of both ^^

JDP
01-01-2016, 09:21 AM
Then you are in debt to me now. ;)

:cool:

No, not yet, we will have to wait until the immortality drug is discovered and offered to the public. Then we will see whether you aren't there among the first in line to get some. ;)

Salazius
01-01-2016, 12:21 PM
First of all. There is nothing such as "immortality" in this world. You can just extend existence. Life is a Divine Essence, and as such is Immortal. But forms of live are just forms. And everything comes and go in the cycle of appearance and disappearance.

All the "immortals", i;e "masters", are only extended and sublimed versions of forms of life.

And by the way it is unecessary to speak about the Phi Stone giving permanence in this world without having this choice "for real", in front of you. When you are not confronted to the choice, you cannot imagine what dilema you are confronted with.

Will you choose to see your children going to the retirement place ? Then being ill, and die ? And what after that ? You seek another person to live with and to see slowly ageing and dying ? Repeating the process of seeing everybody you love going to the grave ? (See "Highlander" the movie.)

Or find another person who has the authorization to live as long as you can. 450 years of existence without a mission and people to joke around are pretty boring.

There is a lot of fantasms with "powers" of immortality and such, but sometime you can just rejuvenate your bodies and having just few skills added with the stone. Like telepathy and such. No superman powers. You still pay the bills and avoid the shit around (new powers = new shit, more powers = more shit). You need a further developpement of your spiritual body. And that's why you have here an opportunity : more time to practice.

Michael Sternbach
01-02-2016, 04:52 PM
I think one of the main problems for an immortal would be to keep a low profile. Some people would never leave you alone if they knew you to be immortal! So you would have to change your identity, place etc every once in a long while. That was difficult enough for Flamel (if the legend is to be trusted), but it would be much more difficult nowadays.

I think I would get myself something like a time and space travelling police box.

Awani
01-02-2016, 04:57 PM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/425-cage-ls-091911_zpsr6rq2a8f.jpg

Nicholas Cage and a man from the Civil War era.

Many of these on the Net... ;)

:cool:

JDP
01-02-2016, 06:02 PM
I think one of the main problems for an immortal would be to keep a low profile. Some people would never leave you alone if they knew you to be immortal! So you would have to change your identity, place etc every once in a long while. That was difficult enough for Flamel (if the legend is to be trusted), but it would be much more difficult nowadays.

Several movies have taken the difficulties of an immortality/unusual-longevity situation as a very entertaining plot, like Highlander and one of the short horror stories in From a Whisper to a Scream.

Awani
01-02-2016, 06:04 PM
"The Hunger" does it best. IMO.

:cool:

JDP
01-02-2016, 06:34 PM
"The Hunger" does it best. IMO.

:cool:

That movie was cool, but it takes the "vampire" angle of the situation. Vampires are shady "undead" creatures who do not lead normal lives and in fact prey on the "living" for their immortality. I was thinking more along the lines of otherwise "normal" humans who find themselves in the immortal/unusual-longevity situation and the potential problems that it might present for leading an ordinary life without getting discovered by "mortal" people.

Luxus
04-27-2017, 10:35 PM
I do not recall any alchemical text that I ever read stating that ingesting the stone would result in immortality. Mostly the claim is that the stone when ingested greatly extends longevity, cures all illnesses and can even reverse the signs of ageing. I believe this to be true however there is something we have to factor in, living at a time when most lived only to 40 years old an 80 year old was seen as extremely old.

The concept of spiritual immortality I believe was dreamt up by Asian alchemists to save face and defend their teacher who lived no longer then anyone else, basically as a way to massage the ego of a failed alchemists...because its hard to say I tried but failed both now and then.

elixirmixer
04-28-2017, 12:26 AM
I do not recall any alchemical text that I ever read stating that ingesting the stone would result in Immortality.

Um.. Harry Potter!

I believe that it's refering to the fact that the stone activates the light body, raises it to it's higher self and therefore, gives one the ability to live after death, within a functional body, aka, eternal life. Immortality is kind of a given, yet we sometimes exist without a body aka death. But to live forever is to build a body that can last forever.

Remember, the absolute, true stone of the philosophers was not physical, it was a state of being reached by an ascending consciousness, through purification an self-reflection.

Perhaps purchasing one of the very rare copies of Alchemy Forums Anthology Vol 1., could help you to see the vast scope that alchemical practise can cover. Alchemy is a tool on the Hermetic tool belt, and Gold and health is by no means the only reason to seek the Stone.

Schmuldvich
04-28-2017, 01:01 AM
Um.. Harry Potter!

I believe that it's refering to the fact that the stone activates the light body, raises it to it's higher self and therefore, gives one the ability to live after death, within a functional body, aka, eternal life. Immortality is kind of a given, yet we sometimes exist without a body aka death. But to live forever is to build a body that can last forever.

Remember, the absolute, true stone of the philosophers was not physical, it was a state of being reached by an ascending consciousness, through purification an self-reflection.

Perhaps purchasing one of the very rare copies of Alchemy Forums Anthology Vol 1., could help you to see the vast scope that alchemical practise can cover. Alchemy is a tool on the Hermetic tool belt, and Gold and health is by no means the only reason to seek the Stone.


BLASPHEMY!


Whether everyone is immortal or not is something we will never know objectively, so discussing it right now is a moot point imo, irrelevant to this conversation.

However, what is worth commenting on is the fact that the Philosopher's Stone is absolutely a tangible, physical matter that we can all see and touch. It is not some random "state of being" as described by elixirmixer. Absolutely not.

One would be better off taking five minutes of their day reading various posts on this forum than they would buying "Alchemy Forums Anthology Vol 1." if Understanding is what one is seeks. The "Alchemical Omnibus" (http://www.mediafire.com/file/itoghxc9l59qz05/Alchemical_Omnibus_2.0.pdf) is a much better resource.

elixirmixer
04-28-2017, 01:19 AM
Yes, there is a tangible stone that can give you health and wealth. However, if one were to squander such a thing, then one could hardly be considered to ever have it at all, because most truthfully, the Sol we seek is the subconscious, the Luna we invoke is self-reflection. Not gold and silver, not their elusive elusive volatile counterparts.

We are the vessel, we are the Materia, we are the Sol and we are th Luna. We are the Green Lion when we war, we slay the Dragons, we fly with the eagles. We are ugly like crows and toads and we are beautiful like a virgin wedding.

And you can make rubies all day long, but then the answer to whether or not the stone will make you immortals is a question completely unto yourself since it is YOU that will either be or be not the stone.

What do you think would happen is you take the stone? Feel good? Get stoned!? Relax??? Sweat and vomit heavily?? Will it have mental effects? Or would you stay similar?

If things like DMT and LSD can open up paths in the mind for the progression of consiousness, then you can be assured that the true physical stone has not only those capabilities, but also in a more balanced and perfect way, healing rather than hurting te biology of the individual.

Nevertheless of there being a very powerful stone, it is not the most noble and true of stones, for I stand by my initial statement that The Stone of the Sages is not physical, rather, it is the result of VITRIOL upon a persons mind.

Consider characters like Dev, who have a healthy appreciation for alchemy, and yet believe that there is no stone and we are all fools... Why would Somebody Like Dev, have an interest, if he does not believe in a physical stone?

What I'm saying, is that obviously there are spiritual effects, requirements , and conditions, around this stone. To think of it as merely a science experiment that wil bring you hope and happiness is a false path, for it does not lead to the spiritual heights of this type of work. Alchemy is not a science. It is a way of life, an understanding, and as this site is living proof of, a culture. There is a great many "stones" to find on this path.

May you find yours :o

Awani
04-28-2017, 07:24 AM
Consider characters like Dev, who have a healthy appreciation for alchemy, and yet believe that there is no stone and we are all fools... Why would Somebody Like Dev, have an interest, if he does not believe in a physical stone?

It's Awani (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5240-Awani-Na-Koudou) now. ;)

I think you misunderstood my position. I think there is a Stone, but not the kind the mainstream practical alchemists are chasing. That is a fools game (especially if physical goal is the aim), but I don't think anyone here is a fool.

DMT is the Stone, but not only and perhaps not in the way one might think.

:p

elixirmixer
04-28-2017, 10:51 AM
Ahh...

The Artist formerly known as Dev...

I've been in a big prince phase lately...

We should all make the stone together, and have a love heart emotiocon installed on the sight :o

I'd like the stone before I die, but there's more to life than just hunting the one ultimate goal. Baby steps :)

Luxus
04-28-2017, 11:50 AM
The stone of the old Alchemists was physical and had physical effects that could be seen by others. Actually if someone tells you they are an alchemist you only need look at them and judge their age and health. If they look several years younger and appear to be in good health then further questioning may be necessary. If they look exactly their age then you only need smile and reply "thats nice" and be on your way!

Awani
04-28-2017, 12:13 PM
There is a big difference between good health and a long life AND immortality, which is the ultimate desire (desire = energy wasting). Who wants to have the same car for thousands of years? When you car breaks down and dies you get a new one, or perhaps get an airplane or something. Allegorically speaking.


We should all make the stone together,...

Hermeticism = Hermit

From my experience and understanding - in the end - you can't do it together. It comes down to the self to do it. It's like taking a shit, you can talk about how to sit and what to eat in order to enjoy it better, but in the end only YOU can squeeze it out. :)

:p

Luxus
04-28-2017, 12:49 PM
There is a big difference between good health and a long life AND immortality, which is the ultimate desire (desire = energy wasting). Who wants to have the same car for thousands of years? When you car breaks down and dies you get a new one, or perhaps get an airplane or something. Allegorically speaking.



:p

You age from the inside out, if you can keep all internal parameters like they were when you were 25 then externally you will look 25 even though you are actually 75 years old. The Alchemist looses nothing by this because he has longer to reach full enlightenment.

Awani
04-28-2017, 11:49 PM
The Alchemist looses nothing by this because he has longer to reach full enlightenment.

To reach enlightenment can take a few hours with the right circumstances and foundational work. I am not claiming to have achieved it, just saying time is not necessary. ;)

:p

Schmuldvich
04-29-2017, 01:06 AM
To reach enlightenment can take a few hours with the right circumstances and foundational work. I am not claiming to have achieved it, just saying time is not necessary. ;)


I second this.

Luxus
04-29-2017, 03:37 AM
By the time you second foot touches the ground you could be there!