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  1. Andro's Avatar
    Andro -
    Atlas Shrugged - The Money Speech (complete):



    Alternatively, try living without trading/exchanging value for value.

    I heard of a documentary about a woman who 'lived' for a year without money. I started watching it and it turns out she survived on OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY...

    Trade/exchange of value is older than money.

    Even more alternatively, imagine a world TODAY where supply of all needs is free. How would it affect society, creativity, innovation, etc?

    And if this supply is not unlimited, who decides who needs what?

    Also, if 'money' (or any other means of value exchange) is in any way perceived as corrupted by this or that standard, I think it's people who 'corrupt' money and not the other way around. Just like guns, sort of... Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
    Updated 06-01-2014 at 05:18 AM by Andro
  2. Oriah's Avatar
    Oriah -
    they say "another day, another dollar"
    I say "another slave, another collar"
  3. Eshai's Avatar
    Eshai -
    I view money as representative of energy. We are all each others' servants.

    Thanks for posting this. Very thought provoking.
  4. Awani's Avatar
    Awani -
    Also I think many people get confused with what money is... I look at it as toilet paper. Something you need, and when it runs out you get some more. And if for some reason there is no toilet paper you can always find other things that can be used in its place.

    I don't connect materialistic dreams with money. If you spend all the money you have on materialism you are a materialist, but you can also spend all your money on experiences; travel, great food, sex, drugs, music and any tool you need to create something... a tool is not materialistic I don't think.

  5. Awani's Avatar
    Awani -
    “So you think that money is the root of all evil? [...] Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?”

    ― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
    Unlike socialism which is full of moochers and capitalism which is full of thieves. In the quote above is, IMO, a very good definition of a truly free market. The free market has nothing to do with capitalism... the free market began 100 000 years ago when a half-ape half-man traded a rock for a banana.

  6. Andro's Avatar
    Andro -
    People who make money usually provide some service in exchange. Does providing services make one a servant?

    I don't think that the problem is with the exchange of goods and services through a medium (such as 'money'), but more with the mentality of extreme greed and abuse. (hoarding/limiting available resources to increase prices, child labor, stock manipulation, irresponsible private and government spending, political interventionism and money printing, etc...)

    I can't do EVERYTHING myself. What I can't barter for, I have to pay for. I have no problem with that.

    As an example, the glassblower who makes my special custom items, is he my 'servant'?

    I can't make glassware. He can, and I sure think he deserves compensation for his work and time.

    Nothing is truly 'free'. If you/we get something 'for free', someone else paid for it. We even have to 'work' to get air! ("breathe in, breathe out").

    One might argue that 'love' is free. But when does it ever come 'cheap'...

    Everything has a price, but there are many ways to 'pay' it... For everything there is a compensation, a balancing out of the equation.

    Even some Hermetic Works (such as the Kybalion) clearly state that.
    Updated 05-28-2014 at 05:00 AM by Andro
  7. crestind's Avatar
    crestind -
    Someone else poorer and lower in the hierarchy
    Money is a store of value and a medium of exchange, the key word being exchange. The idea that people are "enslaved" by money seems to be a more recent meme, spouted off eagerly by hipsters without much serious thought. Nobody is really enslaved by money, because the people working to make it see their time/efforts spent as an equivalent exchange, else they would not be doing it. In some cases, the products and services are cheaper because of some points along the manufacturing/sourcing process people are exploited or paid unfair wages, but this is not always the case and certainly does not amount to enslavement.

    If you buy a steak from directly from a farmer, is the farmer your slave? Your argument only looks at the worst case scenarios and is contrary to the original function of money. Very much a "guns kill people, so let's ban guns" argument.
    Updated 05-26-2014 at 01:50 AM by crestind
  8. Awani's Avatar
    Awani -
    It is a state of mind. I always say, if I need it, that "I need to get some money" or "I need to make some money"... with this attitude it is very easy to get hold of some money if it is needed.

    Wanting and wishing leads nowhere.

  9. Krisztian's Avatar
    Krisztian -
    This is turning out to be an excellent blog, theFool. Thanks for the start-up and for your reflection!

    It is just my opinion, and mean to ruffle no feathers, but those who're known in modern times in the public by name are only playing a 'role'. Perhaps even to confuse, mislead, as was the flavour of the Old Masters. 18th Century is full of such examples. I know two big names personally, and while one of them offers good courses openly, the only way to see serious work is to visit him. Not given via email, nor phone, nor Skype.

    My point being, it takes many, many years for a master of the Art to reveal to anyone anything that's worthwhile. Only very few, maybe one or two students, hang on in a lifetime.

    I see that trend in the Old Times as well. Things haven't changed much.

    The other point that I wanted to make is that majority of alchemists belong to egregore, took an oath of silence, so wouldn't be able to discuss anything worthwhile anyways.
  10. Andro's Avatar
    Andro -
    I must admit I am not personally familiar with the 'modern' teachers and courses. I have only bought Bartlett's book (years ago) and have collected quite a few hearsay less than enthusiastic reports on other 'moderns' (from other students of the art I have met). Bartlett's book, the lofty titled 'Real Alchemy', is of little use beyond simple plant tinctures IMO. The book fails to deliver on the more advanced practices, especially as it progresses towards the finale. I have performed quite a few experiments from his book when I was starting out and was recipe-oriented like many beginners, and only hit dead ends. Nevertheless, those experiments helped me become acquainted with the behavior of Matter and I must give the moderns some credit for getting me into performing actual lab work.

    Another modern is a member here, and only shows up once a year or two, and then only to link to his own forums and classes. So, I strongly recommend to stick with the classics and with deep inner Hermetic contemplation. The Art can't be bought. As the saying goes - when the student is ready, a teacher will appear. Maybe
  11. lwowl's Avatar
    lwowl -
    It is sad that these new masters of alchemy are repeating the dead end mistakes of their teachers. People just starting out in alchemy taking these courses are being taught a false paradigm that will take years to undo.
    Maybe it is helpful for newbies to learn some lab procedures from them, but they will be better served by chemistry courses in their community schools.
  12. JDP's Avatar
    JDP -
    There are so many false so-called "paths" that it would actually be funny & amusing if it wasn't for the sad fact that they have ended up making countless people throughout many centuries to just waste their time and money, sometimes even to the point of financial ruin. Another popular belief that is totally false is the one about "animated mercury" with antimonial amalgams. You would think that this fallacy would have been put to rest after the likes of Boyle, Newton, George Wilson, Boerhaave, etc. tested such claims and found absolutely nothing remotely resembling the Philosophers' Stone, no matter how long they digested metals with such supposedly "animated mercury", but alas, far to the contrary, even today there's still plenty of seekers wasting their time and money distilling antimonial amalgams expecting that it will somehow work.
  13. Andro's Avatar
    Andro -
    theFool - Thanks my friend for making your valuable experience publicly known.

    It should help a lot of people with their decisions on what kind of study path(s) to approach/pursue.

    Also, anyone interested - please read this related (and IMO very relevant) post: Advice on Alchemy Schools & Courses
  14. Krisztian's Avatar
    Krisztian -
    I don't believe Bartlett would post the correct one even if he knew. That's not the style of many of these well-known figures.

    But what you say I believe is true.
  15. black's Avatar
    black -
    Hi The Fool

    Warning this is a high poison !!!
    From one who knows...............Lucky to be here now.
    Basil Valentine speaks the truth about ANTIMONY,it can become a high medicine. But he speaks in the language of nature (Alchemy). If we do not understand this language then we can be terribly lost in the Labyrinth of our own thoughts.
  16. theFool's Avatar
    theFool -
    Some of this tincture was evaporated. The orange color did not go together with the alcohol, but stayed behind. When all alcohol left, it has turned to a completely black residue. When alcohol was added, the black residue was dissolved back to original color.

    One more test was run, with alcohol and KOH digested together. The alcohol turned again orange. So, the color observed has nothing to do with antimony extract.

    Old authors have made this tincture by fusing antimony with salt of tartar. Digestion of alcohol on salt of tartar alone (potassium carbonate), also produces this orange color. I wonder, when Basil Valentine for example writes that this tincture can be used medicinally what does he mean. Obviously, those authors have never tested their preparations. They just repeat the same words after an operation that will produce something colorful, probably to make their book more attractive for selling.

    This is the path of alchemy .. full of pitfalls and traps.