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Thread: Practical Alchemy - An Introduction

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    What’s the difference, FF?
    At this current point of my knowledge, I'd say at least there is one difference in the making. But having neither made the one nor the other, I don't really know.
    I know what z 0k is doing though, because I bought his book

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    At this current point of my knowledge, I'd say at least there is one difference in the making. But having neither made the one nor the other, I don't really know.
    I know what z 0k is doing though, because I bought his book
    Thanks FF.

    I would say the difference between the Vegetable Stone and the Elixir (or Transmutation Stone) is that the One Matter Only premise is literally valid for the Vegetable Stone. The Secret Solvent for the Vegetable Stone is compounded from the Elements extracted from the herb of choice or combination of herbs.

    The Starting Matter premise for the Transmutation Stone is not so simple. The Secret Solvent in one approach is still derived from the Elements received and reduced in the destructive distillation of vegetable matter. The Secret Solvent is made from the Water and Air received which has a very small amount of Fire in it after purification because you cannot ever completely separate out Fire from Water or Air from Water or Fire. When the purified Earth is dissolved into that Secret Solvent then digested and later incubated the Vegetable Quintessence is produced if done right.

    Following this premise for the Transmutation Stone the Secret Solvent is further compounded by adding the Fire of the herb extracted from the Elements received in the dry distillation. This Secret Solvent with the Fire in it is not for human consumption.

    Then it gets more complicated. Either Au or Ag are prepared into a calx which is dissolved into the Secret Solvent which is then "cooked" into a dry red powder that would be the Transmutation Stone. Or Au or Ag is dissolved into the Secret Solvent without any previous processing. Loads of experimental possibilities have to be explored in the lab to get it right. To get there one must know how to fish out the Air from the Water (Mercury), and the Fire from the (Sulfur) tar and purify them. Many ways are given by the philosophers. Hollandus Work of the Vine is the best example for the Secret Solvent and Au with Vegetable Mercury starting at chapter 41.

    Personally, I don't see how one could get the Secret Solvent as described by the alchemists from any minerals other than mineralized biomass. If someone has I would like to hear about it.

  3. #23
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    BTW z 0K,

    do you think it's possible to do some kind of microscale version of your experiments? One needs huge amounts of 'biomass" to follow your instructions which look like to be a huge load of work and time (and money) too. Respect for this alone!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    In addition to what JDP said Spagyric practices actually discard the key Elements to make the Secret Solvent for the Vegetable Stone by burning the matter into smoke that is allowed to escape into the air.
    But those spagyric practices are in fact derived/inspired from those of alchemy: it is the alchemists themselves who keep directing to gradually increase the fire until the distilling vessel is very hot and their compound (which is not really any "one thing only" in the real, literal sense, but a mixture/composite of several things that will end up forming "one thing" in the operations; I think you know this well but don't want to fully admit it) fully decomposes. A typical, standard example of such descriptions by the alchemists (taken from Ripley's "Book of Accurtations"):

    Take the Green Lyon without dissolution in Vinegar (as sometime the Custom is) put in a large Earthen Retort, which can endure the Fire, and distil it the same way as you distil Aqua fortis, putting a Receiver under it, and luting the joint well, that it may not respire; then distil first with a gentle Fire, till you see white fumes appear, then change the Receiver, stopping it well and distil with a great Fire so as Aqua fortis is distilled, thus continuing twenty-four hours, and if you continue the Fire the space of eight Days, you will see the Receiver always full of white fumes, and so you will have the Blood of the Green Lyon, which we call Secret Water, and Acetum accerimum, by which all Bodies are reduced to their first Matter, and the Body of Man preserved from all infirmities.

    Anyone who has distilled "aqua fortis" knows very well what Ripley is plainly referring to and describing. You gradually increase the heat until at the end the retort/cucurbit/alembic is glowing hot and everything in such mixtures that produce this acid has been decomposed by the violent fire and have given off all the volatile products/byproducts. So, no, the spagyrists and chymists were not doing something that the alchemists weren't doing themselves when it comes to this general modus operandi. They in fact totally adopted these methods from the alchemists. The reason why "spagyrics" never discovered the secret solvent is because its practitioners never hit upon the right combinations for it to be able to be prepared (not that they were really looking for it in the first place, though, since their objectives were different; they were interested in confecting all kinds of medicines, not transmuting "tinctures"), and if any of them did, they certainly kept it quiet and took advantage of the discovery (in other words, these fortunate "spagyrists" became "alchemists".)
    Last edited by JDP; 1 Week Ago at 06:55 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    BTW z 0K,

    do you think it's possible to do some kind of microscale version of your experiments? One needs huge amounts of 'biomass" to follow your instructions which look like to be a huge load of work and time (and money) too. Respect for this alone!
    It is a huge load of work and time and money. The lab says "Feed me!" If you do not start with enough biomass you will not get much Quintessence in the end. Some herbs yield better than others. People have had good results with Lemon Balsam, Celandine, and vegetable peppers. The best yield I've found so far is with Cannabis. You don't have to grow your own. You can buy quality organic herbs on line. Wood soot from a good chimney gives the most Sal Armoniac but you have to burn tons of wood to get the soot. Since taking the Quintessence for over two years now I'm off blood pressure meds, prostate meds and in the process of reducing thyroid meds to zero. You can't get those results with anything else I know of.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    It is a huge load of work and time and money. The lab says "Feed me!" If you do not start with enough biomass you will not get much Quintessence in the end. Some herbs yield better than others. People have had good results with Lemon Balsam, Celandine, and vegetable peppers. The best yield I've found so far is with Cannabis. You don't have to grow your own. You can buy quality organic herbs on line. Wood soot from a good chimney gives the most Sal Armoniac but you have to burn tons of wood to get the soot. Since taking the Quintessence for over two years now I'm off blood pressure meds, prostate meds and in the process of reducing thyroid meds to zero. You can't get those results with anything else I know of.
    How much "wood soot" from your chimney did it take you to make the amount of 'Sal Armoniac' exhibited in your videos?

    Have you tried experimenting with mud/clay, blood, urine, sweat, sperm, salt-water, or tears to produce what you call 'Sal Armoniac'? Any good results with any of these?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    But those spagyric practices are in fact derived/inspired from those of alchemy: it is the alchemists themselves who keep directing to gradually increase the fire until the distilling vessel is very hot and their compound (which is not really any "one thing only" in the real, literal sense, but a mixture/composite of several things that will end up forming "one thing" in the operations; I think you know this well but don't want to fully admit it) fully decomposes. A typical, standard example of such descriptions by the alchemists (taken from Ripley's "Book of Accurtations"):

    Take the Green Lyon without dissolution in Vinegar (as sometime the Custom is) put in a large Earthen Retort, which can endure the Fire, and distil it the same way as you distil Aqua fortis, putting a Receiver under it, and luting the joint well, that it may not respire; then distil first with a gentle Fire, till you see white fumes appear, then change the Receiver, stopping it well and distil with a great Fire so as Aqua fortis is distilled, thus continuing twenty-four hours, and if you continue the Fire the space of eight Days, you will see the Receiver always full of white fumes, and so you will have the Blood of the Green Lyon, which we call Secret Water, and Acetum accerimum, by which all Bodies are reduced to their first Matter, and the Body of Man preserved from all infirmities.

    Anyone who has distilled "aqua fortis" knows very well what Ripley is plainly referring to and describing. You gradually increase the heat until at the end the retort/cucurbit/alembic is glowing hot and everything in such mixtures that produce this acid has been decomposed by the violent fire and have given off all the volatile products/byproducts. So, no, the spagyrists and chymists were not doing something that the alchemists weren't doing themselves when it comes to this general modus operandi. They in fact totally adopted these methods from the alchemists. The reason why "spagyrics" never discovered the secret solvent is because its practitioners never hit upon the right combinations for it to be able to be prepared (not that they were really looking for it in the first place, though, since their objectives were different; they were interested in confecting all kinds of medicines, not transmuting "tinctures"), and if any of them did, they certainly kept it quiet and took advantage of the discovery (in other words, these fortunate "spagyrists" became "alchemists".)
    Your remarks are strange considering what said. The fact is that Spagyric chymists these days teach to burn up the herbs in the open air thinking they have already gotten the Solvent or plant Mercury from the herb which they teach is ethanol. That is I believe derived from a misunderstanding of Hollandus for one to begin with.

    Your quote from Ripley is great. I know it well. He clearly says to catch everything that evolves from the dry distillation of the Green Lyon. I have done just what he says there with several herbs. You get exactly what he describes. He uses aqua fortis as a comparison. I use a kiln to achieve the heat he is referring to. And I have received exactly what he descirbes: white fume, Blood of the Green Lyon which has the Secret Water (Secret Solvent) and Acetum accerimum (in the Water, but you have to be careful how it affects the armoniac). He then says after the comma, those things he described receiving from the fire are the means "by which all Bodies are reduced to their first Matter and the Body of Man preserved from all infirmities."

    I don't understand why you decided to ignore the fact that Spagyrists do not follow the teachings of the alchemists as I said. They deliberately burn off the Secret Solvent Elements into the air thinking they are returning some spirit to the earth. It is sad and ironic that they are in fact returning the Spirit of the Secret Solvent to the earth and out of their control.

    They could get it back from the earth by collecting dew but that is a huge work. Now is a good time to do it here on the West Coast because the air is full of smoke from all the biomass burning in the forests. We have one season here anymore and that is Fire Season!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    reducing thyroid meds to zero. You can't get those results with anything else I know of.
    THC and CBD are said to help in similar ways. From what I've read I think you keep those substances until the end right?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    Your quote from Ripley is great. I know it well. He clearly says to catch everything that evolves from the dry distillation of the Green Lyon. I have done just what he says there with several herbs. You get exactly what he describes. He uses aqua fortis as a comparison.
    But the herbs probabaly are not the "Green Lyon". Herbs could just mimick the colors, as aqua fortis does. Just my opinion.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    Your remarks are strange considering what said. The fact is that Spagyric chymists these days teach to burn up the herbs in the open air thinking they have already gotten the Solvent or plant Mercury from the herb which they teach is ethanol. That is I believe derived from a misunderstanding of Hollandus for one to begin with.

    Your quote from Ripley is great. I know it well. He clearly says to catch everything that evolves from the dry distillation of the Green Lyon. I have done just what he says there with several herbs. You get exactly what he describes. He uses aqua fortis as a comparison. I use a kiln to achieve the heat he is referring to. And I have received exactly what he descirbes: white fume, Blood of the Green Lyon which has the Secret Water (Secret Solvent) and Acetum accerimum (in the Water, but you have to be careful how it affects the armoniac). He then says after the comma, those things he described receiving from the fire are the means "by which all Bodies are reduced to their first Matter and the Body of Man preserved from all infirmities."

    I don't understand why you decided to ignore the fact that Spagyrists do not follow the teachings of the alchemists as I said. They deliberately burn off the Secret Solvent Elements into the air thinking they are returning some spirit to the earth. It is sad and ironic that they are in fact returning the Spirit of the Secret Solvent to the earth and out of their control.

    They could get it back from the earth by collecting dew but that is a huge work. Now is a good time to do it here on the West Coast because the air is full of smoke from all the biomass burning in the forests. We have one season here anymore and that is Fire Season!
    I am not sure which "spagyrists" are you referring to, but I am referring to the actual ones from the 16th-17th centuries. The typical "analysis by fire" that the "chymists" from those times practiced consisted in putting the matter to be "analyzed" inside a distilling vessel (retort, cucurbit, alembic, etc.) and then giving it a gradually increasing fire until the vessel was glowing hot and no more volatile products were given off. That technique, I repeat, is lifted straight from the alchemists. With this technique, those chymists/spagyrists "analyzed" virtually all common substances available to the mankind of those times. But they never discovered anything like the secret solvent by manipulating simple naturally occurring substances by themselves.

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