Click HERE if you want to join Alchemy Forums!

Patrons of the Sacred Art

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 228

Thread: Secrecy & Alchemical Initiations

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    everywhere
    Posts
    4,567
    Blog Entries
    4

    Secrecy & Alchemical Initiations

    I've had something on my mind lately.
    I generally don't hold on to things - I notice them, observe them, let them pass...
    and then start afresh with beginner's mind.
    But something has caught my attention, causing me to alter my course.
    I don't believe in secrets really - not that I wouldn't keep one if you asked me too.
    I do/must believe in agreements.
    But to me, knowledge does not belong to one and is meant to be given.
    But then it can't really be given to a mind that has not matured to accept it.
    And that happens through work.

    So I had intended to divulge whatever I find, not as truth, but as yet one more possibility.
    But I have seen in life, my own and others, that only through personal effort,
    dreaming, attention, contemplation and action, does one find their heart's desire.

    I'm using too many words...
    in short - taller, older, more experienced trees can often deprive younger trees
    of much needed sunlight that allows growth.
    This happens too if one just gives another the answer/solution - you wouldn't do
    your child's homework for them... they wouldn't learn anything that way.

    So basically, if my posts are not as open and sharing as they have been in the past,
    it isn't that I'm withholding secret knowledge, or that I believe in elite groups or any ego stuff like that.
    It's just that there's alot of new people and some "old" people who I wouldn't want
    to deprive or deny the pleasure of working for oneself and finding for oneself.
    When it happens that way, we don't have to worry about whether one is worthy
    or not or whether mature enough or deserving... work gives one the proper state of
    gratitude, wisdom, proper use and respect, etc.

    solomon

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    California - United States
    Posts
    90
    I think your right on here. I find many people want to rob themselves of the journy of life. They beg for someone to just hand them a fish instead of asking simeone to teach them how to fish. Right on!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    103
    Solomon levi,

    Sure, I understand what you mean, we have to find the answers ourselves, this is
    what I have done most of my live. Very helful were symbol hints.

    When I will open up here a topic, it will be about something I work on, or try to
    understand, if anyone has to say anything about it,.. great, if not ... also ok, cause
    mostly when I write it down, some morning dew falls on me and gives an idea, where
    to search.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts ... Joy

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,654
    Blog Entries
    5
    You're right indeed Solomon (and other),

    Things are more fun when we seek and find by ourselves. Alchemy must be fun. It is also very personal. Too much guidance and then, you lost your track.

    It 's a great joy to find a new way, a new method that give results. But for that we also need to know things, and masters, friends of Art, books are good for the basics (and further sometime), once you got the theory, you can walk your way more independently.
    Salazius

    http://dartigne.blogspot.com/

    My Works

    "I want to transmute everywhere" ~ The Spirit of Alchemy.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,051
    I too am in agreement with this. It reminded me of the post i made about "my" emblem, and i said i wouldnt pretend to own anything, especially knowledge (nature tells all), i put what i can out there, because it works for me, and if one doesnt understand, then they must grow (as i try to word it as best and simplest way i know how). I personally have had several "lightbulb" moments in the Art, and just the feeling of it "clicking"... if someone had of just told me, it would have ruined it.

    The trick is to listen to nature, and your intuition/subconscious self, when the time is right, you will not only know, you will also understand, and it is that understanding that is the gold of the journey.
    One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    everywhere
    Posts
    4,567
    Blog Entries
    4

    Secrecy & Alchemical Initiations

    I know that some people feel strongly about keeping the secrets of alchemy.
    I'm not one of them - maybe I'll change my mind as I learn more.
    But I am a person of integrity, so if you share something with me, I'll
    keep it secret if you like.

    That said, I think I know where the tradition of secrecy came from, and
    I don't consider it respectable. I'll explain:

    The earliest alchemists have told us that alchemy was first brought to us
    by the gods or angels. They also tell us that it was in exchange for sex with
    our women whom they found beautiful. You can see these relationships in
    biblical writings and the book of Enoch; even Zosimos passes down this
    knowledge of alchemy's origin.
    In the Codex Marcianus (11th century), one of the earliest alchemical
    manuscripts extant, "Isis the Prophetess to her son Horus", Isis tells Horus
    that while he was away fighting Set, she was in Hermopolis studying angel
    magick and alchemy when she was noticed by a lusty angel. But the angel
    could not answer her questions about alchemy, but he bargained to bring
    a higher angel who would answer her. He returns the next day with Amnael,
    who also finds Isis desireable and agrees to barter alchemical knowledge
    for sex. He reveals to her the mystery of his sign/sigil and then makes her
    swear the great oath never to reveal these secrets to anyone but her son.

    So if we accept these origins of alchemy, it is clear that the secrecy is to keep
    humans from becoming gods/god-like (as in the bible) and also to keep them
    from knowing the angels names and signs which would make them vulnerable
    to a priestesses or magus' control.

    Granted, there are other reasons to keep alchemical secrets, some moral,
    some for protection, some to prevent abuse... but the obvious origin of this
    secrecy comes from beings, the majority of which are not amiable towards
    humans, but are rather intent on keeping us in the dark and in control/slavery.
    They are the Gnostic archons, if you will. And as Gnostics, we would defy
    their restricting oaths.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by solomon levi; 12-05-2009 at 05:49 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    103

    Smile

    Solomon Levi,

    Secrets in Alchemy .... one big reason to keep the mouth closed is, whenever you
    tell a person, whats going on, may be in the "Inner Alchemy" or Magic, without
    taking drugs ... others would think ... you are insane ... cause they only know their
    simple reality.

    The next thing ... lab alchemy ... the secrets of a group, sharing till a result is there,
    which makes people famous or rich.

    The third part is even more interesting ... its about the people, which write books about
    Alchemy and Magic ... they collect informations from others bound in secrecy and
    suddenly they pop out everything in their books, just put in another piece of cloth,
    so nobody can blame them.

    If we want realy to know and learn, all we need is to follow the deep burning flame
    inside and it will open all the doors. .... Joy

  8. #8
    Interesting Solomon, one of the ultimate goals in the Golden Dawn tradition is The Knowledge and Conversation of Your Holy Guardian Angel, now most know of Aliester Crowley as a stark raving mad gay drug addict , but at one point he claimed to have contacted his, whom he also believed to one of the Secret Chiefs, he sketched its appearance, it was an Alien Gray! This was long before the first aliens or ufos were sighted. Could it be that they are not very Holy at all and that their purpose is to control humanity through our subconscience and that alchemy is a way to liberate ourselves, a gift perhaps to those who have found favor. Or could it be that there is war in the heavens between good and evil entites vying for the control of mans soul. It is said King Solomon could summon entities and even Belial himself and make him dance before him. If we look at the Greater Key (Clavicula Salomonis) we see a multiple series of sigils ruled by each planet, most contain the names of certain groups of angels who preside over that which we desire to accomplish, once they are shown these sigils they must oblige, could it be that they are compelled to do so because we know their names. Socrates also believed he made contact with his "higher" self and called it a daemon, an excellent aphorism can be seen in , "The Golden Compass", could it be that man is meant to be the master?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    30
    I treat it the same way as you, Solomon. If I do have a discussion with someone about alchemy, if someone is sharing with me, and if this person doesn't want me do talk about it with other people, I do respect it totally, and I won't talk. I also would like the other person not to talk about this or that, if I think it behaves better to the situation or the subject we're talking about.

    But i do personally think that there is one thing we should not forget: Alchemy, and maybe also cause of it's secrecy seems to make quite a big difference in times of massculture, where even the philosophical and spirtitual teachings are just part of a big commercial marketing strategy (Of course this also has some good sides, it's really easy to get a book, or whatever you need for working ect).


    Solomon Levi wrote "Granted, there are other reasons to keep alchemical secrets, some moral,
    some for protection, some to prevent abuse... but the obvious origin of this
    secrecy comes from beings, the majority of which are not amiable towards
    humans, but are rather intent on keeping us in the dark and in control/slavery.
    They are the Gnostic archons, if you will. And as Gnostics, we would defy
    their restricting oaths"

    I'm not sure about that, actually ... maybe in som cases.
    As you've also said: for protection for example - alchemy, cause of it's secrecy and symbols is quite inscrutable ... If you tell someone bout certain processes it can be really dangerous, if this person doesn't know how to handle it, so ...
    And yes, the moral aspect (although i' not a big friend of morals ... laughing) ... I think if someone is just in it for making gold, or just longing for power, ect. , he can bring himself into quite big troubles ... i can't explain this aspect any further, it just seems to be like that.


    Agni

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    271
    Quote Originally Posted by LeoRetilus View Post
    now most know of Aliester Crowley as a stark raving mad gay drug addict
    Mr. C does deserve some criticism, but that's a bit of an uncharitable description, no? And I think he had several wives.

    *Z*

+ Reply to Thread

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts