Click HERE if you want to join Alchemy Forums!

Patrons of the Sacred Art

+ Reply to Thread
Page 23 of 23 FirstFirst ... 13 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
Results 221 to 228 of 228

Thread: Secrecy & Alchemical Initiations

  1. #221
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    I appreciate your view is sincere JDP. As I have similarly mentioned previous I would be delighted if you proved me wrong and found a solely empirical and replicatable method. I wish you every success.
    I already told you, some "chymists" wrote real transmutation processes or truthful general remarks on them in plain words that anyone can repeat and replicate. How else do you think I "discovered" the empirical reality of transmutation? It sure wasn't any little "angel" with a harp coming down from "heaven" and handing me down a "recipe" or whispering instructions into my head while I was sound asleep. Nope. Sorry to burst your romanticized fantasy bubbles, but far from it. It was done through careful investigation of actual written sources, written by actual real flesh & blood men, and sheer empiricism: trial and error, systematic elimination of a lot of the nonsense and phony processes that those very same "chymists" plagued their books with as a protective measure to make it as difficult as possible for neophytes to get to the truth. Nothing else works. You will never get anywhere near the truth by any other means, as there aren't any. I am telling you this so that you do not waste your time waiting for things that just aren't going to happen. If you want to discover any truths regarding such subjects you will have to do the hard work. There are no "shortcuts".

  2. #222
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Bridger Mountains
    Posts
    1,527
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Sorry to burst your romanticized fantasy bubbles, but far from it. It was done through careful investigation of actual written sources, written by actual real flesh & blood men, and sheer empiricism: trial and error, systematic elimination of a lot of the nonsense and phony processes that those very same "chymists" plagued their books with as a protective measure to make it as difficult as possible for neophytes to get to the truth. Nothing else works.
    Completely agree. The Scientific Method is superior to Delusions
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  3. #223
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    499
    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    I already told you, some "chymists" wrote real transmutation processes or truthful general remarks on them in plain words that anyone can repeat and replicate. How else do you think I "discovered" the empirical reality of transmutation? It sure wasn't any little "angel" with a harp coming down from "heaven" and handing me down a "recipe" or whispering instructions into my head while I was sound asleep. Nope. Sorry to burst your romanticized fantasy bubbles, but far from it. It was done through careful investigation of actual written sources, written by actual real flesh & blood men, and sheer empiricism: trial and error.
    If you are willing, can you share an example or two of what you have physically been able to accomplish worthwhile with Alchemy?

    ...I considered sending this via PM but figure asking publicly couldn't hurt.

  4. #224
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    If you are willing, can you share an example or two of what you have physically been able to accomplish worthwhile with Alchemy?

    ...I considered sending this via PM but figure asking publicly couldn't hurt.
    I think you already know what the answer is, but just in case: not possible to share this in a totally clear manner. The preparation of the alchemical "water" is something still under research/investigation and the more detailed information about this must be kept secret. I am not in the business of "prostituting" alchemy, or at least not yet (before I have had time to make a very nice profit from it; consider it a fair payment for all the troubles and expenditure that investigating this subject has given me over the years.) All I can tell you is that I know how to produce a series of "stinking" (notice how persistent some old alchemists are about the strong/bad/foul smell of their "water" at some point of the operations; Llull and his followers, for example, keep referring to their "stinking menstruums") liquid substances from CERTAIN SOLID REACTIONS BETWEEN CERTAIN SOLID SUBSTANCES. It all looks very "alchemical" when compared to many of the descriptions and the genuine clues in the old texts, indeed. Even the "swelling" of the alchemical "matter" is easily seen in most of these mixtures while they are undergoing treatment. All these details lead me to strongly suspect that these mixtures are the real "Magnesia", or "Chaos", or "Sericon", or "Adrop", or "Antimony", or "Saturn", or "Black Lead", or "Azoquean Vitriol", or "Tartar", or whatever-other-decknamen-you-want-to-call-it of the alchemists, and not some simple/single natural mineral, as some quite incorrectly and naively have thought. There just is no such single substance in nature that can perform what the alchemists describe in their texts and is capable of giving you their secret "humidity" or "water". Nature does NOT make either the Stone or the initial mixtures with which its "water" can be prepared. The whole thing relies on some secret mixtures of certain substances, which the operator himself puts together in the right proportions and proceeds to operate on, certainly NOT something that you can find already made in nature and ready to be used "as is" (how very convenient! You might as well tell those that you want to mislead that if you pay for the postage, nature will also send it to your mailbox and you won't even have to bother going out there looking for this will-o'-the-wisp!), as many malicious and envious alchemists like to insinuate or even clearly say to make "unworthy" seekers waste their time and money in wild goose chases after something that nature is actually quite incapable of making on its own. I repeat: nature does NOT know how to make the Stone or its proximate components (viz. the "water/mercury" and the "earth/sulphur"), it can only provide the raw or "remote" matters for man to make these things. It is up to you, then, to compose this "Magnesia" (out of several substances that nature can provide you with, but nowadays man's industry can also provide you with these substances as well); this part is NOT nature's work but YOUR work. So all seekers who take the unrealistic "one matter only" death-trap uncritically and at face value are simply lost and will never find anything regarding this "water" and the reactions which give it birth.
    Last edited by JDP; 04-11-2017 at 06:12 AM.

  5. #225
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    499
    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    I think you already know what the answer is, but just in case: not possible to share this in a totally clear manner. The preparation of the alchemical "water" is something still under research/investigation and the more detailed information about this must be kept secret.

    I am not in the business of "prostituting" alchemy.

    I can tell you is that I know how to produce a series of "stinking" liquid substances from CERTAIN SOLID REACTIONS BETWEEN CERTAIN SOLID SUBSTANCES.
    Cool, thank you very much for sharing!

    ....I have qualms with what you state at the end of your post regarding Nature, finding, and making the Philosopher's Stone but you and I have already discussed this at length elsewhere, so no need to rehash this with ya over and over. Again, thank you for responding. I look forward to hearing about what you discover with your endeavors, JDP!

  6. #226
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    Cool, thank you very much for sharing!

    ....I have qualms with what you state at the end of your post regarding Nature, finding, and making the Philosopher's Stone but you and I have already discussed this at length elsewhere, so no need to rehash this with ya over and over. Again, thank you for responding. I look forward to hearing about what you discover with your endeavors, JDP!
    Just remember that through the centuries countless legions of seekers put just about any simple substance found in nature to treatment by itself, and none found what the alchemists described. That "one matter only" trap could work into fooling many people centuries ago because nature was still not more thoroughly explored back in those times, so for many people it was easy to still believe that there was some largely unknown natural substance out there that could respond to all the descriptions the alchemists made. But we live in an age where the accumulated experience of all those centuries can easily expose this claim as the pure nonsense that it is. No such natural substance has been found anywhere, and that's simply because it does not exist in nature. The alchemist himself makes it. It's an artificial composite. Nature is quite incapable of making it. And why would nature even need to make it if in fact itself does not make the Stone/Elixir either? This silly trap easily dismantles itself for any person possessed of sound critical sense and logic. It can't withstand even superficial scrutiny.

  7. #227
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    499
    Quote Originally Posted by Krisztian View Post
    This Royal Art seems to be open only to those, in relation to the Magnum Opus, who approach it without any intention of betrayal, exploitation, so forth. That's why few enter the inner chamber. Don't you take off your shoes when you enter your friend's home? The type of intimate relationship(s) one has is very telling of the distance one can take in alchemy, I believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krisztian View Post
    Before starting on the path, I received several strong warnings! that I should not under any circumstances discuss my alchemical practice. OR, certain very important doors of my path will remain closed; in terms of making magisterium medicine, palingenesis, etc. So, I took the clear warnings well, and try to blend into complete anonymity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krisztian View Post
    The more I advance, the less interested I am of humanity, and their fights, games, emotional turmoil, the using of other groups to fight against, showing that one is big, right, smarter, etc. I have deep love for the people in my life, but I also have enough love to be also allowing, being in a state of disinterestedness.

    Another quote that I recently found from Dubuis, also explains it better than I could say, ". . . if part of creation has been made invisible to the layman it is by necessity and whoever wants or begins to contact the Invisible should not show it to the layman" (p.141).
    Really well put. The more I advance the less interested I am with society (which was already almost nil to begin with).



    Philosophers have expressed themselves only by similitudes and figures, as I have told you.

    This they did, so that the science might not be discovered by the ignorant, which if it should once happen, all were lost: but that it might be comprehended only by those patient souls, and subtilised understandings.

    Upon this ground was it that they were pleased to speak by figures, types, and analogies, that so they might not be understood except by such as are discreet, religious, and enlightened by (divine) Wisdom. All which notwithstanding, they have left in their writings a certain method, way and rule, by the assistance whereof, the wise man may comprehend whatever they have written most obscurely and in time arrive at the knowledge of it, though happily wading through some error, as I have done, praised be God for it.

    And whereas the vulgar ignorant person ought to submit to these reasons, and consequently adore, what is too great, to enter into his brain, he on the contrary accuses the philosophers of imposture and impiety, by which means and the scarcity of wise men, the art falls into contempt.
    "The True Book Of The Learned Greek Abbot Synesius", 1612

    Jealous Sages have named many waters and metals and stones, simply for the purpose of deceiving you; herein the philosophers would warn us that they have used secrecy, lest the whole mystery should be manifested before all the world.

    Those who follow the letter of their directions are sure to be led astray, and to miss entirely the true foundation of our Art. The fault, however, lies not with the Sages so much as with the ignorance of their readers.
    "Glory Of The World", 1526

    Our Art has fallen into disrepute, as I have said, through the stupidity and - dishonesty of many of its professors. They are ignorant mechanics who, not having skill and brains enough for an honest trade, must needs meddle with our Art, and, of course, soon lose all they possess. Others, again are only just less ignorant than these persons; they are in too great a hurry to make gold before they have mastered even the rudiments of natural science; of course they fail, spend all they have, borrow money from their friends, amuse themselves and others with hopes of infinite wealth, learn to talk a barbarous semiphilosophical jargon, and afford a capital handle to those who have an interest in abusing our Art. Again, there are others who really have a true knowledge of the secret, but who grudge others the light which has irradiated their own path; and who therefore write about it in hopelessly puzzling language, which the perplexed beginner cannot possibly understand. To this class belong Geber, Arnold, and Lullius, who would have done much better service to the student, if they had never dipped pen in ink. The consequence is that every one who takes up this study at once finds himself lost in a most perplexing labyrinth of falsehood and uncertainty, in which he has no clue.

    I will therefore try to give him some sound advice as to the best way of accomplishing his object.

    In the first place, let him carry on his operations with great secrecy in order that no scornful or scurrilous person may know of them; for nothing discourages the beginner so much as the mockery, taunts, and well-meant advice of foolish outsiders.

    Moreover, if he does not succeed, secrecy will save him from derision; if he does succeed, it will safeguard him against the persecution of greedy and cruel tyrants.

    In the second place, he who would succeed in the study of this Art, should be persevering, industrious, learned, gentle, good-tempered, a close student, and neither easily discouraged nor slothful; he may work in co-operation with one friend, not more, but should be able to keep his own counsel; it is also necessary that he should have a little capital to procure the necessary implements etc., and to provide himself with food and clothing while he follows this study, so that his mind may be undistracted by care and anxiety.

    Above all, let him be honest, God-fearing, prayerful, and holy. Being thus equipped, he should study Nature, read the books of genuine Sages, who are neither impostors nor jealous churls, and study them day and night; let him not be too eager to carry out every idea practically before he has thoroughly tested it, and found it to be in harmony not only with the teaching of all the Sages, but - also of Nature herself. Not until then let him gird himself for the practical part of the work, and let him constantly modify his operations until he sees the signs which are described by the Sages.
    "Metamorphosis Of Metals", 1668

  8. #228
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    162
    That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. […] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also afterwards, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown

    Azazel taught men to make swords and knives and shields and breastplates; and made known to them the metals [of the earth] and the art of working them

    Thou seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were in heaven, which men were striving to learn

    there arose much godlessness

    The whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin

    One of the weaknesses of humans is that they like to blame others whenever possible but it was clearly the humans who began to abuse the knowledge they were given.

    Humans have a lower animal nature which opens them up to abusing knowledge.

    So from the beginning the reasons why "though should not cast pearls before swine" is because they will abuse the knowledge.

    One thing you must remember is that one who possesses the philosophers stone in endowed with supernatural ability's. Can you imagine what the average lowlife on the street would do if they had such ability's...they would use it for all the lower purposes. As for the person who revealed this knowledge they must reap the karma that the abuser creates by its misuse.

+ Reply to Thread

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts