Patrons of the Sacred Art

OPEN TO REGISTER: Click HERE if you want to join Alchemy Forums!

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 29 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 12 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 290

Thread: Secrecy & Alchemical Initiations

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    191
    Honestly it depends on what you think you have found- and if in fact it is worth secreting away. The tale you relayed about Isis is (to me) far more indicative of the alchemical process then anything the metaphorical angels parleyed...especially seeing as they came from the firmament of heaven.

    She relates that "after a certain passing of the kairoi and the necessary movement of the heavenly sphere, it happened that one of the angels who dwelt in the first firmament saw me from above. . ." The angel, a being of the lower realm between the earth and the moon, is enflamed by passion, but can't answer her questions about alchemy.
    Sendivogius - The New Chemical Light: But because this most pure fire now occupies the firmament, and surrounds the throne of God, the waters have been condensed into a body beneath it; and thus the sky is formed, while the water which now forms the atmospheric air and the lower firmament is due to the action of a lower and grosser fire.
    Excepting a small portion pertaining to the particulars of archemy - I've seen nothing worth keeping secret... and even those few things are meager accomplishments at that.
    Ζογκλέρ που Καταπίωει Φωτιές

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    everywhere
    Posts
    4,568
    Blog Entries
    4
    Hi Joy.
    Yeah, I think the best reason for secrecy is simply keeping the 'flask'
    hermetically sealed until the desired result is achieved. That is, talking
    about a thing, especially before it has occurred, can disperse the energy.
    But for the greater part, I don't believe people protect alchemy; I think
    it protects itself - true alchemy is directly tied in to one's consciousness,
    so abundance, for example, cannot be had by a greedy personality (greed
    being a product of lack, not enough...) I know it's not that way in the social
    conscious world, but I think it is in alchemy where we are dealing with the
    quantum realm and not so much mass to mass.
    We've all heard of scandals against alchemists, ike the guy that starting
    making and selling Starkey's pills, or the same thing happened to Glauber.
    But you never hear of people stealing the Philosophers' stone or selling it,
    because I don't think it can happen. Hudson tried to mass produce it and
    sell it to people and his facilities had a major acid spill and were shut down.
    There are angels associated with these higher products and they will
    not allow them to be abused.
    The Essene is a very generous soul - he would give the gold ormus to almost
    anyone. But when the angel did not approve, he would be unable to make it.
    (After taking the white gold for a time, the Essene could see the angel and
    communicate with it. Hudson mentioned the same thing about the man
    who was his 'guinea pig'.)
    I mean really, humans could not have protected alchemy for this long.
    There must be something supernatural to it.

    I'm not saying that if I made the red lion today, I would tell everybody
    tomorrow - I wouldn't. It's just the smaller things, the beginnings...
    setting people on a good path.



    Leo,
    Yes. You're feeling me. That's exactly what I suspect.


    Hey Agni,
    I guess I accept the mass consciousness/internet, etc, as a sign of the times.
    Things must be going that way for a reason... with the creators' blessing,
    never against it.
    Leo mentioned Aleister Crowley... well, another similar personality - possible
    genius, possible megalomaniac - Carlos Castaneda claimed that he was the
    last of his lineage and it was now spirit's will that Toltec sorcery come out
    into the open... thus writing the books, Tensegrity, etc... Maybe it's the
    same with alchemy. Maybe there is a dawning of a new age where these
    things can happen in mass. I think that's what's happening and that the old
    rules may not be applicable anymore. If they are, then they'll sustain. I
    don't think it's any one person's responsibility.

    I'm not a believer in morality myself.



    My whole point isn't that we should or shouldn't keep secrets... if anyone
    has personal reasons that's cool. I just question tradition and am sharing
    knowledge of the history involved here. And maybe inciting a little Gnostic
    rebelliousness.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    everywhere
    Posts
    4,568
    Blog Entries
    4
    Wow, posts are coming in fast.
    I'll stop replying to everyone and let it flow.
    Thanks for all your responses.

    Hephaelios - don't think I've seen you around for a while. Glad you're back.
    (Forgive me if you've been here and I didn't notice.)


    Mr. C went both ways.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
    Mr. C does deserve some criticism, but that's a bit of an uncharitable description, no? And I think he had several wives.

    *Z*
    What I meant to say is that is how he is known to popular culture. I for one can seperate the person from his works and I respect his works. I guess you could say the same about a guy like Michael Jackson, deeply troubled and misunderstood, but we can seperate his accomplishments from the man and admire him for his work.
    Maybe Mr. C. opened some portals that could not be closed or maybe he prefered they remain open.
    Many temptations will abound a man with great potential and great knowledge but the strong and upright will persevere.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    In the moment...
    Posts
    8,030
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi View Post
    And as Gnostics, we would defy
    their restricting oaths.
    Indeed, and this topic has popped up a few times in different guises (some of them):

    Perhaps Alchemists are coming out of the closet i.e. the great debate... it can't be nothing but healthy in my opinion!

    The origins are a combination of keeping people enslaved, but also from fear of being killed... the Church in the old days didn't like boiling kettles that much!

    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi View Post
    So if we accept these origins of alchemy, it is clear that the secrecy is to keep humans from becoming gods/god-like (as in the bible) and also to keep them from knowing the angels names and signs which would make them vulnerable to a priestesses or magus' control?
    Well that is from where we get the Greater and Lesser Mysteries, or if you will the Above or Below (in a sense)... sometimes secrecy is a tool to teach one thing at a time. You got to crawl before you can walk, but I agree people have taken stuff like that literarily causing centuries of unnecessary ignorance.

    Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,647
    Perhaps the process of alchemy is similar to a bird hatching from its shell
    or a larva pupating to adult hatching from its cocoon. If you try to help you
    could damage the fragile new life and hinder the one thing that is going to
    prepare it to cope in its future.

    You could therefore consider a forum like this as an incubator

    Ghislain
    Last edited by Ghislain; 12-06-2009 at 04:03 AM.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    everywhere
    Posts
    4,568
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by deviadah View Post
    The origins are a combination of keeping people enslaved, but also from fear of being killed... the Church in the old days didn't like boiling kettles that much!
    Yeah, and today we need to fear persecution by government and
    pharmaceutical industries (same thing: industrial-pharmaceutical-government...)
    perhaps that's the best reason for secrecy.
    Although that would be more like showing discretion than secrecy/
    oath taking.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    everywhere
    Posts
    4,568
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghislain View Post

    You could therefore consider a forum like this as an incubator

    Ghislain
    Nice!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    19
    I have had cause to think about the legitamacy of secrecy from time to time.

    If someone has a mind to get into trouble, they will find a way.
    and
    A truly dangerous man, cannot survive in the world for very long.

    Generally there isn't to much to worry about, just always keep your word.

    ManO

  10. #20
    This secrecy is very strange thing.
    It does not make any sense. Maybe after...
    Consider that it seems never leaked... maybe cuz it can not be uttered & /hail 2 AC/ heared.
    Consider that many knew the right material but were not able to do it.
    Adepts say that only God will reveal IT, but they say nothing more about God and ultimate things...

+ Reply to Thread

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts