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Thread: Secrecy & Alchemical Initiations

  1. #41
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    It feels the same as the Ouroboros swallowing its tail. It's the same as when I embrace Oneness to the
    point of uselessness and get blasted back into duality. There's some weird membrane there where the manifest
    and unmanifest are constantly alternating at some incredible speed.
    Everything is in constant flux...good times lead to bad and back again, but what is good and what is bad?

    whatever we percieve it to be...

    The only constant is change.

    IMHO

    Ghislain
    Open Book
    "Dogmatic Assumption Inhibits Enquiry" Rupert Sheldrake

  2. #42
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    I Apologize If I Hurt Your Feelings, Or Offended Your Pride. I Was Remiss In Not Taking Into Consideration The Human Ego.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi View Post
    Since my "god" is the All-One, I try not to negate anyone else, for that "disparages god" in my book.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road View Post
    I Found It Puzzling How One Who Acknowledges The Heavenly Could Ascribe To Such, Base Motives.
    This might come as a shock to some - but the alien-ET 'gods'/genetic manipulators need to piss, shit, fuck and feed just like the rest of us.

    As an example for the (apparently still ongoing) earth human naivety:

    If the 'gods' use cloaking technologies to make themselves appear/disappear from the visible spectrum at will, it DOES NOT make them 'Inter-Dimensional Beings'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Road View Post
    I Confess I Still Do Not Understand How One Can Disparage His Creators.
    Sure, there are many god/creator posers. But we are ALL from the same Universal Source, ultimately beings of our own Creation/Imagination. Not an easy ONE to digest, though

    Also, Road, if you would more clearly define what/whom you perceive as 'creators' (instead of moving directly to 'apologies') - maybe it would save some of the friction.

    And even maybe, possibly, reveal some common ground...

    What say you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Road View Post
    I Was Remiss In Not Taking Into Consideration The Human Ego.
    I have found that the best way to take into consideration and address the issue of the human ego - is to start by taking a good look in the mirror.

    (I used Road's quote, but I am not addressing this to anyone in particular)

    But if we want to watch out for symptoms of an overinflated ego (in the spiritually inclined 'community'), we can look for the sanctimonious tone, the pontificating demeanor, the fixed dogmatic patterns, etc...

    We don't fix 'The Stone' to become fixed like 'The Stone' - but to UN-Fix ourselves

    That's the way I see it, anyway...

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    This might come as a shock to some - but the alien-ET 'gods'/genetic manipulators need to piss, shit, fuck and feed just like the rest of us.
    You Are Largely Correct, Though A Few Have Transcended These Things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    Also, Road, if you would more clearly define what/whom you perceive as 'creators' (instead of moving directly to 'apologies') - maybe it would save some of the friction.

    And even maybe, possibly, reveal some common ground...

    What say you?

    I Have No Wish To Elaborate At This Time.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi View Post
    The earliest alchemists have told us that alchemy was first brought to us
    by the gods or angels. They also tell us that it was in exchange for sex with
    our women whom they found beautiful. You can see these relationships in
    biblical writings and the book of Enoch; even Zosimos passes down this
    knowledge of alchemy's origin.
    In the Codex Marcianus (11th century), one of the earliest alchemical
    manuscripts extant, "Isis the Prophetess to her son Horus", Isis tells Horus
    that while he was away fighting Set, she was in Hermopolis studying angel
    magick and alchemy when she was noticed by a lusty angel. But the angel
    could not answer her questions about alchemy, but he bargained to bring
    a higher angel who would answer her. He returns the next day with Amnael,
    who also finds Isis desireable and agrees to barter alchemical knowledge
    for sex. He reveals to her the mystery of his sign/sigil and then makes her
    swear the great oath never to reveal these secrets to anyone but her son.
    I do not think this story of Isis should be interpreted historically, but anagogically. It seems to me clearly to be a recipe, as Amnael's arrival bearing the sign on his head and carrying a translucent jar of water to mate with the black goddess Isis (Nature) indicate to me the white stage. Look also to Isis' emphasis on the position of the stars and the καιρός, the divine and critical moment.

    So if we accept these origins of alchemy, it is clear that the secrecy is to keep
    humans from becoming gods/god-like (as in the bible) and also to keep them
    from knowing the angels names and signs which would make them vulnerable
    to a priestesses or magus' control.

    Granted, there are other reasons to keep alchemical secrets, some moral,
    some for protection, some to prevent abuse... but the obvious origin of this
    secrecy comes from beings, the majority of which are not amiable towards
    humans, but are rather intent on keeping us in the dark and in control/slavery.
    They are the Gnostic archons, if you will. And as Gnostics, we would defy
    their restricting oaths.
    Concerning secrecy, knowledge of the matter is not verbally communicable, as it resembles nothing else, and as is equally well-said, resembles all things, so that this singular thing may not be distinguished from among the multitude by any description merely. It doesn't matter how plainly the sages speak (and truly, they speak far more plainly and openly than most imagine) without that the Deity takes pity and deigns to enlighten us, we would never understand and remain in confusion until death (at least!)

    So I must disagree that the tradition of secrecy in alchemy was instituted by the archons and lower authorities, but rather by God (viz. "I was a hidden treasure..." and the parable of the pearl of great price and many gnostic allegories) nor I do not believe this should be an astonishing assertion: any so-called "divine" power which could be contained in ink and paper would not deserve the description.

    If the alchemists have been so jealous, then how can it be said of their matter that all see it and it is found wherever man is found? They have been as explicit as it is possible to be. It is our confusion and our vain delight in ignorant notions that prevent us from seeing it clearly and making use of it. And that this 'secrecy' is so tied up with the matter and work that they can never be untangled is a proof of the divinity of the Art.

  7. #47
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    I never intended to be an authority on this subject (secrecy).
    I was just posting some info. That's all anything is to me - info.
    Sometimes info matches one's experience; sometimes not.
    I'm not surprised, nor does it matter, if anyone disagrees with the info I posted.

    And when I object to anyone claiming to know what I understand and misunderstand,
    that's just basic relativity and quantum subjectiveness. The ego is obviously the one that assumes
    it knows someone else rather than describing their interpretation of the info. So nice try Road,
    but you volunteered as an ego when you believed you knew what I misunderstand - it was
    obviously important for you to point that out - that I misunderstand and you understand -
    even though we were speaking about different info. If you were more loving and universal,
    you might have approached it a different way, like - "I have a different view. Here it is:...."
    But you needed to promote your understanding and demote mine as if they were in competition.
    So I don't think you'll be schooling me on the ego any time soon.


    If you, or anyone else like, I freely admit that the title of the thread may be off. I didn't mean, or say,
    that this is the ONLY origin of secrecy. Sorry if people are interpreting me that way. But if you knew me,
    you'd know that I never believe I have the ONLY description. Please take anything and everything i say
    as just info, a description - one among trillions. The composite of knowledge and mind that is Solomon Levi
    is a very small entity indeed. We are in total agreement there. Does this really need to be pointed out? Is
    there any named persona that isn't? Is Road merely Road and that's all?

    If you can think a thing, it is true and possible and existing somewhere. There is simply no such
    thing as a thought that doesn't exist, for that which doesn't exist can't be thought about or written or verbalized.
    As soon as you invent the idea of a thought that doesn't exist, it exist. So post different thoughts by all means.
    But tell me my thought is wrong or a misunderstanding, and you reveal your own knowledge/ignorance of thought,
    and of me, and of yourself (which are All-One). You are defining your reality, not mine. Is that not apparent?
    If you want to know my reality you can ask me. The first post of this thread is but a frozen moment of time and
    perception. It says nothing about who I am right now or what I understand or perceive as my picture of reality today.
    I defend it, only that any description exists and has a right to exist. And the fact that I used other sources is proof
    that others can also see this viewpoint, so who are you to say it's a misunderstanding? The ego is revealed in the one who
    believes this is a historical truth misunderstanding when it is merely a misunderstanding relative to your understanding.
    Take the ego out of the equation and there are simply two understandings, as I said earlier.

    This reflects the position I am currently choosing. There are many others who agree that agreement makes reality -
    Castaneda wrote on this in his books and lots of people read those books and hopefully proved this to themselves.
    If you'd like to verify it yourself, create a language or alphabet and show it to someone else and have them memorize it
    or whatever and the two of you can communicate via this new language/alphabet because you agree what the symbols
    or sounds mean. I have explained myself pretty well. If you don't care to see my view, that's your option. But it is a valid one,
    as valid as any other, and as invalid as any other.
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  8. #48
    If your views are wide as all that, you can certainly accommodate the possibility the story is yet another description of the work, as well as yet another confirmation that Earth Girls Are Easy

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3+O( View Post
    I do not think this story of Isis should be interpreted historically, but analogically.
    It is possible to interpret it on multiple levels. And if one can astrally time travel, one can go check for himself Quite a few have done exactly that...

    Quote Originally Posted by 3+O( View Post
    knowledge of the matter is not verbally communicable
    Yes it is (of sorts). And some adepts have done that, in plain language. See, for example, 'The Confession of Trithemius' (Abbott of Spanheim).

    But, then again, it depends what we mean by 'knowledge' of the matter. Knowing OF the matter is not quite the same as KNOWING the matter

    Quote Originally Posted by 3+O( View Post
    How can it be said of their matter that all see it and it is found wherever man is found?
    Not only where man is found, but everywhere. And the matter can not be 'seen' (unless made seen by Art) , but only recognized in its effects.

    Or maybe you refer to a different matter... an 'auxiliary' matter for the Work...

    Quoting myself from another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    There are different types of matter which are commonly mistaken as 'one' matter, for which we believe we need to search in the physical realm.

    This has created much confusion in interpreting the texts of the old masters, especially because ALL matter is ultimately an incarnation of the ONE matter.

    In practice and application, we have the matter(s) for our Matrix or Magnet (as support), the matter(s) for our 'Athanor' (as Portal/Separator/'cooking' oven), the true Source Matter (Primordial Matter) which is the Philosophical Matter, and the matter(s) in/through which the Source Matter is perpetually 'circulating' (see Emerald Tablet) in immaterial form and also easiest to be brought forth from (SEPARATED and made physically manifest).
    ✂----------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Andro; 06-15-2011 at 08:31 AM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3+O( View Post
    If your views are wide as all that, you can certainly accommodate the possibility the story is yet another description of the work, as well as yet another confirmation that Earth Girls Are Easy
    Certainly!
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

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