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Thread: Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity and Alchemy

  1. #41
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    To get to One from Zero there are an infinite amount of fractions.
    This is that grey area where nothing is absolutely clear.
    Every fraction is just as important as the next, for without even
    the tiniest part there can not be a whole.

    This grey area is present in all that is.
    Nothing is just black and white.

    You can leave out parts of what is but
    this means you will never get to One.

    Perhaps

    Ghislain

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by horticult View Post
    Pls read some adepts books, they mentioned this often.
    I believe what I experience. Many books mention many things. This does not neccessarily make them true.

    You would only truly KNOW from your own experience, but this is a topic you seem to be always evading. You're just dropping bombastic statements, with no direct personal experience to back them up. I am not in the least impressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by horticult View Post
    I would also recommend 2 u 2 start using words in their common sense, a lot of things will be suddenly much clearer.
    One's "common" sense is another one's nonsense. Which makes the recommendation mutual.

    By the way, what is the 'common' sense of the word 'life', according to you Mr. Horticult? And do try to be explicit this time...
    Last edited by Andro; 12-29-2009 at 04:32 PM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghislain View Post
    To get to One from Zero there are an infinite amount of fractions. This is that grey area where nothing is absolutely clear. Every fraction is just as important as the next, for without even the tiniest part there can not be a whole.

    This grey area is present in all that is.
    Nothing is just black and white.

    You can leave out parts of what is but
    this means you will never get to One.
    You have no idea how much I agree with you on this

  4. #44
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    sorry burbling

    Ghislain

  5. #45
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    What about Flamel, I read, that he only had success, because he worked with his
    wife together, making the stone.

    Since romantic love is based on hormons, and the personel female not always is
    interesting in lab work, it was suggested, to take a female friend as an opposite
    to work on the stone ... how about that?

    Nice Greets ...Joy

  6. #46
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    It makes a nice tie-in... the hormones correspond to the ductless glands which
    correspond to chakras (or whatever you call them) which correspond to planets
    which correspond to the metals...


    I was thinking about this thread today (though it was back a couple pages when
    I last read it), and i have to disagree with the male/male thing from an alchemical
    perspective. (Simply rational - no irrational homophobia )
    My reasoning is this... it's very clear that two opposite natures are joined:
    fixed and volatile, male and female, sulphur and mercury, eagle and lion, etc...
    They fight/resist union, and it is the alchemical art that joins the two into a
    new being/androgyne.

    While i see the value in same sex companionship (very much so), the suggestion
    that two males would uncomplicate (my choice of word) the situation of needing
    or seeking outside of oneself the opposite just defeats the purpose of alchemy -
    solve/coagula, fix the volatile, volatilise the fixed, spiritualise matter and materialise
    spirit, etc...


    On the matter of choosing to be hetero or gay, I wouldn't know... I don't recall
    making a choice to be hetero though...
    But I disagree with subscribing it to brain wiring, only because I know from experience
    that it can and should be changed, because most of our wiring/programs were programmed
    into us by others (that's why people end up like their parents generally - they are
    our primary teachers/programmers).


    ps - I didn't get any "burn homos at the stake" feeling from that post when I read it.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi View Post
    I have to disagree with the male/male thing from an alchemical perspective.
    I've already explained this more than once...

    Man + Man DOES NOT EQUAL male + male.

    I NEVER mentioned alchemical unions between 2 exclusively male energies. Man, however is NOT exclusively male, but contains the female energies within himself as well. My simple point it that it can be more challenging for a MAN with predominant MALE energies to access his innate FEMALE energies as long as he is looking for those FEMALE energies ouside himself. In a hetero relationship it's easy for a man to default on his menial role with his male energies being predominant, while in a gay relationship each partner gets to experience both his male and his female energies in a more equal manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi View Post
    But I disagree with subscribing it to brain wiring, only because I know from experience that it can and should be changed, because most of our wiring/programs were programmed into us by others (that's why people end up like their parents generally - they are our primary teachers/programmers).
    Let me know when you succeed in changing your eye color...
    (But no cheating with color contacts )

    There is a qabalistic saying: "Everything is preordained and permission (free will) is given". This sounds like a paradox, but it isn't. You can't change the cards you've been dealt at birth (anymore than you can change your natal horoscope), but you can most definitely chose HOW to play the hand you've been dealt.

    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi View Post
    I didn't get any "burn homos at the stake" feeling from that post when I read it.
    Some eyes are more skilled than others in decoding certain sections of the psycho-semantic spectrum. Let's just leave it at that

  8. #48
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    I said i viewed the Stone as both, and neither: it is a balance of both, thus has both energies and can use them according to the need of the work, but it is neither because it is perfectly balanced and has no gender.

    Mercury/alkahest is the force, substance, or thought that binds us, or the opposites so they may unite and be a balanced whole. It is like the stone, in that it can relate, or bridge both, but mercury is not of either sex either.

    As for the metals, i think that gets more into their correspondence rulers, i.e. sun, moon, venus, mars, saturn, etc...etc... With that, metal alchemy that ive heard of seems to be in using gold, to extract its seed (sulphur gained by via a mercury/medium) and is then mixed with silver's womb, also gained through a mercury, and resulting in a birth of balanced stone, which isnt ruled by any correspondence, for it embeds all, thus making it none. (i dont work much in metal alchemy though. i use gold and silver in my works, but not to the extend most do, im more of a plant and animal alchemist, with a hint of minerals. )

    I think the "confusion/problem" is a distinction between individual mental/spiritual alchemy, and duo physical alchemy: an individual holds both male and female aspects, sure, and balances self, and thus his/her work, i agree. The thing is, on the physical level, the individual is still male, or female. They may have tapped into their energies, and can use their "opposite" energies as a mercury between them, and their opposite, but they them self are still male or female.
    Example: As mentioned im a guy. My girl is also into alchemy and we discuss it a lot. She thinks a bit differently then i do, because she is a girl (difference between "logic" and "emotion" respectfully). I value this difference in view, because though being different, doesnt contradict mine, but opens new doors through that perception. By me being "in tune" with my own female/Lunar side, i can better relate to her, and it thus acts as a mercury between my physical male self, and her female self, and bridges the gaps between our trains of thought, into 1 unit working together, balanced.

    Now, that doesnt mean two guys cant do alchemy together, many of my friends here are males also and i get good ideas from them, but the "mind-sets" are about the same as far as male/female go, so its kinda like an "echo", its like your own thought, but maybe a bit different cause its from someone else. Ofcourse, unique ideas can come from anywhere, but i think ya probably can get what im meaning. (guys think solar, girls think lunar, we connect to both via our mercuries, but essentially its all 1, so a balance requires both solar and lunar to be an alchemical marriage.)
    The only thing is that i cannot see it as alchemical in the sense of a physical union with the a man/man, or woman/woman. Though the mercury towards the female might be there for one of the guys, nature has already dictated that he is a guy in salt/body, and same for female, and thus they should be balanced accordingly. It seems that otherwise, it would be ignoring the physical/salt aspect of nature and art, and thus ignoring self nature and art. Kinda like chemists only look at physical, psychologists only look at mental and religious persons only see spiritual. All miss the others, while Alchemists see and use all, balancing, and working them properly. To ignore physical nature and thereby its art, well... i just dont see how it works then, cause it wouldnt be alchemy.

    Joy, it is a nice idea of having an opposite partner to work with, i enjoy it myself, and Flamel was a great example, im afraid i kinda forgot/didnt think about him before now. lol

    Anyway, thats my take, and the examples in nature are there also:

    a mercury being genderless: im in the habit of using a mercury made of dew and rain. Dew being the female/lunar water of below, and rain being the masculine/solar water from above. By mixing the two, they become one water, and use both energies, but since they are then 1, they are neither. for one, they have no sex, and also, if they did, it would mean there was an imbalance. They act as one, and use all.

    I see the Stone the same way, but more powerful, or as the Emerald Tablet puts it "It is perfected if turned into earth", thus the balancing powers, holding the elements, by the laws of nature and the work of art, form a perfected substance that is then earth, living, fixed fire, and also volatile water (if you make the "drink of the immortal" from it ). In that regard, "All is 1, and 1 is All", being joined in perfection, then is of its own kind, it is whatever the work its used for, calls for.

    ~Seth-Ra
    One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth-Ra View Post
    Guys think solar, girls think lunar
    Gays think both. (solar AND lunar)

    I'll repeat the summary of my views on this subject for the last time:

    Vulgar nature (the majority) is dualistically balanced, and therefore heterogenous (Yin/Yang).
    It is physically better reflected in the heterosexual orientation.

    Philosophical nature (rare) is non-dualistically balanced and therefore homogenous.
    It is physically better reflected in non-heterosexual orientations.

    The above statements are strictly my own views, and I will not elaborate/discuss them anymore unless other not-hetero alchemists will also come out here and enhance the interaction.

    I appreciate everyone's input on this 'hot' topic. If you've managed to learn something new from it - good for you. If you only participated to add pompous and condescending remarks, or to merely reassure yourself that your way is the "right" way - that's fine too

    I may have many interesting things to share in the more practical sections of this forum. When we meet again in the practical sections, please remember to back up your claims about practical lab alchemy with your own practical lab results.

    Thank you.

  10. #50
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    Fair enough.

    One thing id like to ask though, and it doesnt have to be answered here, or even at all, just something to think about: "Vulgar" and "Philosophical" nature... what defines them? If it is merely majority and rarity, then it would stand to see what each brings and work according to which offers what youre after. If one is physical ("vulgar") and the other mental/spiritual ("philosophical") then a balance should be made according to proper Art, i would think. (which then ties into the above mentioned topic).

    Like i said, just food for thought, or perhaps we should start a separate thread concerning types of nature, and its properties. *shrugs*

    Also, Androgynus, id like to thank you for discussing my original question on this matter, instead of side-stepping it. I think we understand each other a bit better and in that understanding, this topic was "good".

    I guess in the end, Sexuality in Alchemy and Nature really just depends on what the person(s) want. ive come to the conclusion about other things like this, and it simply is "the world is art, and proof is subjective according to the artist". Basically, the way we live, the way we work, is what we want it, and if we truly believe our personally True Ways (true to selves) then any "proof" will only back up our Way, in our minds. So, i may not see homosexuality as "Right" under the Rules of Alchemy and Nature, just like you see the heterosexuality as lesser to yours. I personally dont think anything is wrong with having, and holding to a Way that you believe in, i just think it proper to share the information with others, so as to build understanding, even if there is disagreement, there can still be understanding and working together. (concepts get tweaked, "fitted" into each persons personal form of their Work, thus making it "Art". )

    Well, i think ive typed enough. (lol i know i have a habit of making long posts )

    So to each Artist my final words would be: "Its your Art, learn it, use it, share it, and grow it."

    ~Seth-Ra
    One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?

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