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Thread: One Matter - One Vessel - One Fire

  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by tAlchemist View Post
    What does the word MATTER mean to you JDP? What is Matter, and what is One Matter? Let's see if we can come to am understanding.
    It means what it literally says: one matter, one substance, 1. It doesn't mean "several matters/substances" or greater than 1. If you start giving it other arbitrary meanings other than what normal, literal parlance means, then you are being tricky. That's exactly what many alchemists were doing with this whole "one matter only" claim. You need to be familiar with their mentality and their theoretical ruminations & assumptions to understand why they could find it justifiable to declare A MATTER COMPOSED OUT OF SEVERAL SUBSTANCES as "only one". Many of the more generous and honest alchemists actually bothered to explain what this "trap" consists of. These last ones are to be praised. The others should be utterly condemned.

  2. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    It means what it literally says: one matter, one substance, 1. It doesn't mean "several matters/substances" or greater than 1. If you start giving it other arbitrary meanings other than what normal, literal parlance means, then you are being tricky. That's exactly what many alchemists were doing with this whole "one matter only" claim. You need to be familiar with their mentality and their theoretical ruminations & assumptions to understand why they could find it justifiable to declare A MATTER COMPOSED OUT OF SEVERAL SUBSTANCES as "only one". Many of the more generous and honest alchemists actually bothered to explain what this "trap" consists of. These last ones are to be praised. The others should be utterly condemned.
    out of curiosity,

    what do you think of the alchemists who claim that their fire is actually water? How would this water as fire be used in the analysis? Does you believe that these alchemists lied about this fiery water?

    Can you name any one matter that isn't a composite of some type containing earth, water, air, and fire,

    If matter consists of substances, then an olive branch, under analysis by fire will yield 1. A water, 2. An acid, 3. An alkaline salt, 4.a sulphurous oil, 5. A black empyreumatic oil, and finally 6. A white insipid earth.

    All of these substances come from that one matter called an olive branch.
    It is one specified type of matter that produces olives.

    is a grape not a thing even though it's mainly composed of water, sugar, earth and oil

    According to Keely and Walter Russell, as well as the alchemists, matter is infinitely divisible

    Do you know if all of your empiricists were able to work their matters using the secret alchemical fire.

    Can you say that the correct procedure was used by all those whom you claim failed?

    note; Im on mobile, so i am having a very hard time quoting, but this is basically my questions based on what youve said to me in the past regarding One Matter, our last conversation a few months ago, i just cant for the life of me quote right now, but i take it you might remember.

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by tAlchemist View Post
    out of curiosity,

    what do you think of the alchemists who claim that their fire is actually water? How would this water as fire be used in the analysis? Does you believe that these alchemists lied about this fiery water?
    No, but it's just an analogy. Some alchemists also called acids "fire against nature", for example. Obviously that the secret solvent or "water" of the alchemists and common acids are not really any "fires", they just seem to have an analogy with it due to their action upon some substances, like metals, for example. Such analogies have even survived into our modern world. A popular brand of sulfuric acid used by plumbers is in fact called "LIQUID FIRE"!:



    Little do most people nowadays suspect that such an analogy has deep roots in alchemy.

    Can you name any one matter that isn't a composite of some type containing earth, water, air, and fire,
    Trick question! No, because such "elements" do not exist outside the imagination of Aristotle and his followers (which includes the majority of alchemists, who quite uncritically accepted and adopted his speculations about matter.)

    If matter consists of substances, then an olive branch, under analysis by fire will yield 1. A water, 2. An acid, 3. An alkaline salt, 4.a sulphurous oil, 5. A black empyreumatic oil, and finally 6. A white insipid earth.

    All of these substances come from that one matter called an olive branch.
    It is one specified type of matter that produces olives.

    is a grape not a thing even though it's mainly composed of water, sugar, earth and oil
    In reality those are complex mixtures of complex organic compounds, not "single/one" anythings like some alchemists envisioned. Now try to do the same with a metal, or even many minerals! This speculative "philosophy" will not work here because we are now talking about simpler inorganic substances that will not decompose with heat, and those that do decompose give less complex products/byproducts. So, in summary, the whole thing is nothing but a trick: trying to fool unwary people into actually working with a single substance (whether a complex organic mixture or simpler substances like minerals), nothing else, from the very beginning, and then trying to make the Stone with it. And I have very bad news for you and anyone falling for this old ruse: it just ain't gonna happen, buds! 2000+ years of accumulated empirical experience with all manner of single naturally-occurring substances denounce such an idea as pure BALONEY.

    According to Keely and Walter Russell, as well as the alchemists, matter is infinitely divisible

    Do you know if all of your empiricists were able to work their matters using the secret alchemical fire.
    Since the alchemists themselves were empiricists (no matter how much they also pretend to be "philosophers" and came up with various edifices of theoretical speculation), yes, obviously that they all worked with that "fire" (i.e. the secret solvent.)

    Can you say that the correct procedure was used by all those whom you claim failed?
    Huh? You ask some weird and self-answering questions. If they failed, then obviously it follows that they weren't using "the correct procedure". Elemental, my dear Watson!

  4. #384
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    Mod post

    Don't cross post and spew same view point in every single thread.

    Use this thread: 'One Matter' - Empiricism & Alchemy - Discerning Truth from Deception

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  5. #385
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    I logged on; and immediately pissed myself laughing.

    I love this zone.... Hahhah well done Awani. Go JDP!!! Hahaahahahahahahaahahahah. Lovin it.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

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