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Thread: The Philosopher's Matter

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    But when people like Salazius claim to have produced the Universal Solvent described by the Masters yet the end product does not coincide with the descriptions of the Alchemists, then therein I believe lies a problem. When these people refuse to answer direct questions or cowardly clam up when pressed for more information on something they have consciously publicly shared that's when you know not even they are not confident their product withholds scrutiny and is not in alignment with the words of the Sages.
    Oh again... You think it is possible to 'openly' share, and because we don't, you got angry. Ok.

    I'm not even writting here anymore, but it seems you have a real problem with me and Leo.

    You know what ? Forget me. I owe you nothing, no explanations, no commentaries, no teachings, nothing. You act as a frustrated little boy.

    It's my alchemical path. My way. My realizations. Not your business.
    The way you ask things, no one will ever help you. You sound bitter and agressive. That's sad.

    Ciao.
    Salazius

    http://dartigne.blogspot.com/

    My Works

    "I want to transmute everywhere" ~ The Spirit of Alchemy.

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    Well written explanation of your stance, Tannur. Thank you for sharing!

    I absolutely love the writings of Sendivogius.

    Are you looking for someone to disprove that galena is the Philosopher's Matter, or are you looking for someone to prove that galena is the Philosopher's Matter?

    If you are seeking out disapproval of your substance, what could be said that would ever prove to you otherwise?

    If you seek affirmation, what could be said that could prove to you that it is so unless someone were to post video, thorough documentation, and ample evidence that they have produced the Philosopher's Stone using galena? No one in existence has ever posted any evidence they have accomplished anything worthwhile, and only a handful of people alive today even openly claim Success.
    I only posted it to share my view on this subject and invite comments from others. As for proving or disproving it, you are right in that it cannot really be proved conclusively without actually making the stone. However, a rational argument that adds some information I was perhaps ignorant of and seems convincing to me would be enough I guess. On the other side, an argument that is rational and introduces me to a new perspective on how to interpret alchemy might convince me that galena is not in fact the matter. But I would need a thorough explanation that assumes I am a beginner. For example, I do not yet know the different types of paths in alchemy, such as the wet and dry path, probably due to the fact that the old books only seem to be speaking about one path to me. Hence it confuses me as to why modern alchemists do not focus on this path. I am not saying there are not multiple paths, only that every single ancient author I have read focuses on the simple path, and some even warn against attempting any other path due to the difficulty involved, especially for someone who has not first accomplished the simpler way.

    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    Hi Tannur .... and welcome to the forum.

    Rubaphilos Salfluere has written about his lab work using Lead to acquire our Mercury.

    Do you do practical lab work ???

    If not this could be a good time to start .... with Galena ?
    Thanks, it is great to have found this forum.

    Interesting, is there a link where Salfluere talks about this process? I have only just started lab work and am wary of starting work with minerals and metals just yet. I am trying to follow the advice of the ancient authors to start in the vegetable kingdom first. If I cannot discover alchemical truths from working with the three principles of the vegetable kingdom - the kingdom which most visibly displays alchemical processes - I would certainly not trust my abilities in the mineral realm.

    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    Hi Schmuldvich

    I have had what most people would call hundreds of failures in The Great Work.

    To me these hundreds of failures are all stepping stones along the path
    of Alchemy and it is slow and long and can be quite frustrating at times.

    BUT.... I do find that there is an evolution in the way I see things and the
    changes with patience, also a sense of positive hope in my life for The Work.

    To me this is accomplishing something "worthwhile".

    It could be interesting to hear what some of our members consider what the
    term "worthwhile" may mean in Alchemy.
    I just take the traditional "Dialectical" view of how subjects are learnt. This view is ridiculously simple and basically states that knowledge is gained by starting at a point where you can understand what is being taught, and moving progressively upwards to more advanced knowledge as you become more skilled and experienced in the field. So if I feel out of my depths whilst reading texts about mineral alchemy, I am probably not ready for them yet, even if I can understand something here and there. This is why I chose to start doing lab work and exploring the principles in the vegetable kingdom. I have got nothing to lose by doing this: I am still learning about the three principles (which is what alchemy is mainly about) at a level which I am comfortable at and can understand, whilst at the same time acquiring a skilled hand. When I am explored practical alchemy properly and am able to distil oils from most natural objects, and am able to make my own alcohol etc etc then I will feel ready to go back to reading the old texts. I have also spent the past year learning Arabic and have started reading a book called Rutbat al-Hakim in the original Arabic. It is interesting to find my view shared by that great alchemist Majriti, who rather than diving straight into the alchemy, begins by telling his students basically this: stop right there and start by studying Euclid's Elements, Ptolemy's Almagest, etc (he proceeds to give a long list of books in the rational sciences - the old version of philosophy). Only then, he says, will the student's mind be trained enough to embark on the great work and unravel the riddles of the ancients.

    So to go back to your question: what is worthwhile? For me, I measure this by understanding. When I understand something, I just know I understand it. At the moment, for example, I do not understand the three principles well and how they interact and transform as a seed grows into a plant for example. So I plan to explore this wonderful subject further to gain insight into alchemy. It is just like solving a maths problem (and by problem I mean olympiad level, not basic school exercises), except alchemy is a much longer and more intricate problem - one could say a series of problems. Hence the need to be skilled in the rational sciences, as per Majriti's advice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Scrooge View Post
    You can make the stone with galena, but then again, you can make the stone out of almost anything including but not limited to cinnabar, pyrite, a chicken egg, and even human blood.
    How do you know this? It seems to be opposed to the view of the majority of ancient alchemists I had read, such as Roger Bacon who claims in one of his books that anyone who uses hair, eggs, or anything else other than the true matter of the alchemists is misguided. I understand that this may simply be a warning for beginners to avoid going down the more difficult paths that exist. Or maybe it is genuine advice and eggs etc really cannot lead to the stone? In any case, whatever the answers turns out to be, I wills till try my best to follow his advice and that of the other alchemists I have read - namely that there is a particular matter which must be used, which one can discover by sound thinking about the generation of metals (as Bacon and others claim). This is why I am convinced it is galena. I have not yet found another argument that proceeds from the generation of metals and is as convincing.

  3. #503
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    ‘transparent and recently smelted lead mineral’ must be used, the one at the Arsenal Library states:
    ‘Take the crystalline stones that surround and feed the lead mines, the most transparent and recently
    taken from the water of mines, whenever possible, provided they had not be exposed to the sun at all’.75
    Another copy provides even more detail on the raw material required to prepare the ‘Philosopher's Stone’: ‘
    The true philosophical matter is a mineral substance properly named Saturn's sperm, since it is mainly
    found at the places in which lead grows.


    The crystalline matter mentioned in the recipes may refer to the white lead spar that is sometimes
    found in crystalline and transparent form as galena gangue; for instance, in his Dictionnaire de Chimie, 2nd edn (Théophile Barrois, Paris, 1778), J. P.
    Macquer states that the white lead is an example: ‘
    of very rich species of lead ores that are quite far from the state of mineralization in strict sense
    Some one tried it.

  4. #504
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    Hi Tannur

    Here is a link to Rubaphilos salfluĕre youtube https://www.youtube.com/c/Rubaphilos...C4%95re/videos

    I'm not suggesting that you follow his style of work ... only saying I remember that he was working with lead/galena.

    Your approach to Alchemy sounds most sensible .... baby steps until we learn how to walk and so much safer.

    It's so easy to think that we know more than we actually do and take risks that there may be no coming back from.

    Slow and steady ... patience is one of the greatest hurdles to overcome for the aspiring Alchemist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tannur View Post
    So to go back to your question: what is worthwhile? For me, I measure this by understanding. When I understand something, I just know I understand it.
    Yes and as we gain "Understanding" then in the Lab we can put it to the test.

  5. #505
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    I can only say thus regarding the Philosophers Matter spoken of by Fulcanelli...it is not an ore !!

    All of the writings that describe this matter speak if it by allegory!

    I do know it but it took almost 15 years of reading to learn it.

    After you learn the matter you will slap yourself in the face and all the ramblings of myself and all of the other authors who spoke knowingly will become apparent. ALL of the allegories, every smilitude including my own!

    Sorry WE could not speak clearer.

    It is indeed the Clay .....and The Stone of The Wise!
    Peace and LVX

    Frater L.R.


  6. #506
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    Hey Leo, nice to see you showing up every now and then!

    Are you still referring to the same Kabbalistic Subject Matter we discussed a few months ago?

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoRetilus View Post
    It is indeed the Clay .....and The Stone of The Wise!
    Yes! "Clay" - the very matter (not in a literal sense) disclosed by the Hermetic Recreations treatise - one of the most revealing treatises that I've yet come across (if you read the symbolism correctly).

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Hey Leo, nice to see you showing up every now and then!

    Are you still referring to the same Kabbalistic Subject Matter we discussed a few months ago?
    Yes the thread I created..the phonetic canals was an answer to this thread. Why? Because Fulcanelli alludes in both his books to the phonetic canals as a means of unraveling all the while the secret matter...the philosophers matter, and learning the phonetic cagala is the only to solve the matter through his writings.
    I put off for years actually delving into the subject matter but ultimately how I solved it.
    Peace and LVX

    Frater L.R.


  9. #509
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    Illen Absolutely !
    Peace and LVX

    Frater L.R.


  10. #510
    The solvent or green lion is not a chemical per say, it's what happens when you mix A + B.
    Last edited by Uncle Scrooge; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:17 AM.
    "Heaven is the first element.”
    ― Hermes Trismegistus, Corpus Hermeticum: The Divine Pymander
    unclescrooge@secmail.pro
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